Re: [openstack-dev] [Nova] Concrete Proposal for Keeping V2 API

2014-03-10 Thread John Garbutt
On 6 March 2014 13:18, Christopher Yeoh cbky...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 10:24 PM, John Garbutt j...@johngarbutt.com wrote: On 5 March 2014 03:44, Christopher Yeoh cbky...@gmail.com wrote: But this plan is certainly something I'm happy to support. One extra thing we need to

Re: [openstack-dev] [Nova] Concrete Proposal for Keeping V2 API

2014-03-06 Thread John Garbutt
On 5 March 2014 03:44, Christopher Yeoh cbky...@gmail.com wrote: But this plan is certainly something I'm happy to support. +1 On 5 March 2014 03:44, Christopher Yeoh cbky...@gmail.com wrote: So I think this a good compromise to keep things moving. Some aspects that we'll need to consider:

Re: [openstack-dev] [Nova] Concrete Proposal for Keeping V2 API

2014-03-06 Thread Christopher Yeoh
On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 8:35 AM, Russell Bryant rbry...@redhat.com wrote: On 03/05/2014 04:52 PM, Everett Toews wrote: On Mar 5, 2014, at 8:16 AM, Russell Bryant rbry...@redhat.com wrote: I think SDK support is critical for the success of v3 long term. I expect most people are using the

Re: [openstack-dev] [Nova] Concrete Proposal for Keeping V2 API

2014-03-06 Thread Christopher Yeoh
On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 10:24 PM, John Garbutt j...@johngarbutt.com wrote: On 5 March 2014 03:44, Christopher Yeoh cbky...@gmail.com wrote: But this plan is certainly something I'm happy to support. One extra thing we need to consider, how to deal with new APIs while we go through this

Re: [openstack-dev] [Nova] Concrete Proposal for Keeping V2 API

2014-03-06 Thread Russell Bryant
On 03/06/2014 08:18 AM, Christopher Yeoh wrote: As an aside, I think we need to improve the process we use for API related features. Because a lot of the problems that get picked up during code review could have been avoided if we had a better review earlier on that just focussed on the API

Re: [openstack-dev] [Nova] Concrete Proposal for Keeping V2 API

2014-03-05 Thread Sean Dague
On 03/04/2014 10:44 PM, Christopher Yeoh wrote: On Tue, 04 Mar 2014 16:09:21 -0800 Dan Smith d...@danplanet.com wrote: What I'd like to do next is work through a new proposal that includes keeping both v2 and v3, but with a new added focus of minimizing the cost. This should include a path

Re: [openstack-dev] [Nova] Concrete Proposal for Keeping V2 API

2014-03-05 Thread Christopher Lefelhocz
I like this plan as it addresses my primary concern of getting deployments comfortable with the transition. We don't mention SDKs in the plan. It seems like getting at least one SDK to use v3 would provide us additional data in the transition. There is clear risk associated with that, but it

Re: [openstack-dev] [Nova] Concrete Proposal for Keeping V2 API

2014-03-05 Thread Jay Pipes
On Wed, 2014-03-05 at 05:43 +, Kenichi Oomichi wrote: -Original Message- From: Dan Smith [mailto:d...@danplanet.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2014 9:09 AM To: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [Nova] Concrete Proposal

Re: [openstack-dev] [Nova] Concrete Proposal for Keeping V2 API

2014-03-05 Thread Russell Bryant
On 03/05/2014 08:52 AM, Christopher Lefelhocz wrote: I like this plan as it addresses my primary concern of getting deployments comfortable with the transition. We don't mention SDKs in the plan. It seems like getting at least one SDK to use v3 would provide us additional data in the

Re: [openstack-dev] [Nova] Concrete Proposal for Keeping V2 API

2014-03-05 Thread Everett Toews
On Mar 5, 2014, at 8:16 AM, Russell Bryant rbry...@redhat.com wrote: I think SDK support is critical for the success of v3 long term. I expect most people are using the APIs through one of the major SDKs, so v3 won't take off until that happens. I think our top priority in Nova to help

Re: [openstack-dev] [Nova] Concrete Proposal for Keeping V2 API

2014-03-05 Thread Kenichi Oomichi
-Original Message- From: Jay Pipes [mailto:jaypi...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2014 10:52 PM To: openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [Nova] Concrete Proposal for Keeping V2 API On Wed, 2014-03-05 at 05:43 +, Kenichi Oomichi wrote

Re: [openstack-dev] [Nova] Concrete Proposal for Keeping V2 API

2014-03-04 Thread Sean Dague
So this thread is getting deep again, as I expect they all will, so I'm just going to top post and take the ire for doing so. I also want to summarize what I've seen in the threads so far: v2 needed forever - if I do a sentiment analysis here looking at the orgs people are coming from, most of

Re: [openstack-dev] [Nova] Concrete Proposal for Keeping V2 API

2014-03-04 Thread Daniel P. Berrange
On Tue, Mar 04, 2014 at 08:46:32AM +1100, Michael Still wrote: I think its also pretty unfair on the people who put a lot of work into the v3 API. We're seriously going to delete their code after they put a year into it? To me OpenStack isn't just the users, its also the development

Re: [openstack-dev] [Nova] Concrete Proposal for Keeping V2 API

2014-03-04 Thread Daniel P. Berrange
On Tue, Mar 04, 2014 at 07:49:03AM -0500, Sean Dague wrote: So this thread is getting deep again, as I expect they all will, so I'm just going to top post and take the ire for doing so. I also want to summarize what I've seen in the threads so far: v2 needed forever - if I do a sentiment

Re: [openstack-dev] [Nova] Concrete Proposal for Keeping V2 API

2014-03-04 Thread Sean Dague
On 03/04/2014 08:14 AM, Daniel P. Berrange wrote: On Tue, Mar 04, 2014 at 07:49:03AM -0500, Sean Dague wrote: So this thread is getting deep again, as I expect they all will, so I'm just going to top post and take the ire for doing so. I also want to summarize what I've seen in the threads so

Re: [openstack-dev] [Nova] Concrete Proposal for Keeping V2 API

2014-03-04 Thread Daniel P. Berrange
On Mon, Mar 03, 2014 at 12:32:04PM -0500, Russell Bryant wrote: 5) Capitalization and Naming Consistency Some of the changes in the v3 API included changes to capitalization and naming for improved consistency. If we stick with v2 only, we will not be able to make any of these changes.

Re: [openstack-dev] [Nova] Concrete Proposal for Keeping V2 API

2014-03-04 Thread zhyu_139
, etc. does help. 发自139邮箱mail.10086.cn The following is the content of the forwarded email From:Sean Dague s...@dague.net To:openstack-dev openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org Date:2014-03-04 20:49:03 Subject:Re: [openstack-dev] [Nova] Concrete Proposal for Keeping V2 API So this thread

Re: [openstack-dev] [Nova] Concrete Proposal for Keeping V2 API

2014-03-04 Thread Nikola Đipanov
On 03/03/2014 06:32 PM, Russell Bryant wrote: There has been quite a bit of discussion about the future of the v3 API recently. There has been growing support for the idea that we should change course and focus on evolving the existing v2 API instead of putting out a new major revision. This

Re: [openstack-dev] [Nova] Concrete Proposal for Keeping V2 API

2014-03-04 Thread Russell Bryant
On 03/03/2014 12:32 PM, Russell Bryant wrote: There has been quite a bit of discussion about the future of the v3 API recently. snip :-) Since this proposal was posted, it is clear that there is not much support for it, much less consensus. That's progress because it now seems clear to me

Re: [openstack-dev] [Nova] Concrete Proposal for Keeping V2 API

2014-03-04 Thread Anne Gentle
On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 11:10 AM, Russell Bryant rbry...@redhat.com wrote: On 03/03/2014 12:32 PM, Russell Bryant wrote: There has been quite a bit of discussion about the future of the v3 API recently. snip :-) Since this proposal was posted, it is clear that there is not much support

Re: [openstack-dev] [Nova] Concrete Proposal for Keeping V2 API

2014-03-04 Thread Vishvananda Ishaya
On Mar 4, 2014, at 9:10 AM, Russell Bryant rbry...@redhat.com wrote: Thank you all for your participation on this topic. It has been quite controversial, but the API we expose to our users is a really big deal. I'm feeling more and more confident that we're coming through this with a much

Re: [openstack-dev] [Nova] Concrete Proposal for Keeping V2 API

2014-03-04 Thread Sean Dague
On 03/04/2014 12:26 PM, Vishvananda Ishaya wrote: On Mar 4, 2014, at 9:10 AM, Russell Bryant rbry...@redhat.com wrote: Thank you all for your participation on this topic. It has been quite controversial, but the API we expose to our users is a really big deal. I'm feeling more and more

Re: [openstack-dev] [Nova] Concrete Proposal for Keeping V2 API

2014-03-04 Thread Russell Bryant
On 03/04/2014 12:42 PM, Sean Dague wrote: On 03/04/2014 12:26 PM, Vishvananda Ishaya wrote: On Mar 4, 2014, at 9:10 AM, Russell Bryant rbry...@redhat.com wrote: Thank you all for your participation on this topic. It has been quite controversial, but the API we expose to our users is a

Re: [openstack-dev] [Nova] Concrete Proposal for Keeping V2 API

2014-03-04 Thread Christopher Yeoh
On Tue, 4 Mar 2014 13:14:01 + Daniel P. Berrange berra...@redhat.com wrote: On Tue, Mar 04, 2014 at 07:49:03AM -0500, Sean Dague wrote: So this thread is getting deep again, as I expect they all will, so I'm just going to top post and take the ire for doing so. I also want to

Re: [openstack-dev] [Nova] Concrete Proposal for Keeping V2 API

2014-03-04 Thread Christopher Yeoh
On Tue, 4 Mar 2014 09:26:18 -0800 Vishvananda Ishaya vishvana...@gmail.com wrote: On Mar 4, 2014, at 9:10 AM, Russell Bryant rbry...@redhat.com wrote: Thank you all for your participation on this topic. It has been quite controversial, but the API we expose to our users is a really

Re: [openstack-dev] [Nova] Concrete Proposal for Keeping V2 API

2014-03-04 Thread Dan Smith
What I'd like to do next is work through a new proposal that includes keeping both v2 and v3, but with a new added focus of minimizing the cost. This should include a path away from the dual code bases and to something like the v2.1 proposal. I think that the most we can hope for is

Re: [openstack-dev] [Nova] Concrete Proposal for Keeping V2 API

2014-03-04 Thread Morgan Fainberg
On March 4, 2014 at 16:13:45, Dan Smith (d...@danplanet.com) wrote: What I'd like to do next is work through a new proposal that includes  keeping both v2 and v3, but with a new added focus of minimizing the  cost. This should include a path away from the dual code bases and to  something like

Re: [openstack-dev] [Nova] Concrete Proposal for Keeping V2 API

2014-03-04 Thread Christopher Yeoh
On Tue, 4 Mar 2014 11:29:27 -0600 Anne Gentle a...@openstack.org wrote: I still sense that the struggle with Compute v3 is the lack of documentation for contributor developers but also especially end users so that we could get feedback early and often. My original understanding, passed by

Re: [openstack-dev] [Nova] Concrete Proposal for Keeping V2 API

2014-03-04 Thread Michael Still
On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 11:09 AM, Dan Smith d...@danplanet.com wrote: What I'd like to do next is work through a new proposal that includes keeping both v2 and v3, but with a new added focus of minimizing the cost. This should include a path away from the dual code bases and to something like

Re: [openstack-dev] [Nova] Concrete Proposal for Keeping V2 API

2014-03-04 Thread Christopher Yeoh
On Tue, 04 Mar 2014 12:10:15 -0500 Russell Bryant rbry...@redhat.com wrote: What I'd like to do next is work through a new proposal that includes keeping both v2 and v3, but with a new added focus of minimizing the cost. This should include a path away from the dual code bases and to

Re: [openstack-dev] [Nova] Concrete Proposal for Keeping V2 API

2014-03-04 Thread Christopher Yeoh
On Tue, 04 Mar 2014 16:09:21 -0800 Dan Smith d...@danplanet.com wrote: What I'd like to do next is work through a new proposal that includes keeping both v2 and v3, but with a new added focus of minimizing the cost. This should include a path away from the dual code bases and to

Re: [openstack-dev] [Nova] Concrete Proposal for Keeping V2 API

2014-03-04 Thread Kenichi Oomichi
-Original Message- From: Dan Smith [mailto:d...@danplanet.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2014 9:09 AM To: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [Nova] Concrete Proposal for Keeping V2 API What I'd like to do next is work

[openstack-dev] [Nova] Concrete Proposal for Keeping V2 API

2014-03-03 Thread Russell Bryant
There has been quite a bit of discussion about the future of the v3 API recently. There has been growing support for the idea that we should change course and focus on evolving the existing v2 API instead of putting out a new major revision. This message is a more complete presentation of that

Re: [openstack-dev] [Nova] Concrete Proposal for Keeping V2 API

2014-03-03 Thread Joe Gordon
On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 9:32 AM, Russell Bryant rbry...@redhat.com wrote: There has been quite a bit of discussion about the future of the v3 API recently. There has been growing support for the idea that we should change course and focus on evolving the existing v2 API instead of putting out

Re: [openstack-dev] [Nova] Concrete Proposal for Keeping V2 API

2014-03-03 Thread Russell Bryant
On 03/03/2014 01:27 PM, Joe Gordon wrote: On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 9:32 AM, Russell Bryant rbry...@redhat.com wrote: 1) What about tasks? In some cases, the proposed integration of tasks is backwards compatible. A task ID will be added to a header. The biggest point of debate was if and how

Re: [openstack-dev] [Nova] Concrete Proposal for Keeping V2 API

2014-03-03 Thread Andrew Laski
On 03/03/14 at 10:27am, Joe Gordon wrote: On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 9:32 AM, Russell Bryant rbry...@redhat.com wrote: There has been quite a bit of discussion about the future of the v3 API recently. There has been growing support for the idea that we should change course and focus on evolving

Re: [openstack-dev] [Nova] Concrete Proposal for Keeping V2 API

2014-03-03 Thread Joe Gordon
On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Russell Bryant rbry...@redhat.com wrote: On 03/03/2014 01:27 PM, Joe Gordon wrote: On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 9:32 AM, Russell Bryant rbry...@redhat.com wrote: 1) What about tasks? In some cases, the proposed integration of tasks is backwards compatible. A task

Re: [openstack-dev] [Nova] Concrete Proposal for Keeping V2 API

2014-03-03 Thread Jay Pipes
-1 from me. Sounds like a way to avoid badly needed change and innovation in the API. When, for example, would we be able to propose a patch that removed API extensions entirely? The inconsistent naming, capitalization, numerous worthless or pointless API extensions, ability to do similar or

Re: [openstack-dev] [Nova] Concrete Proposal for Keeping V2 API

2014-03-03 Thread Russell Bryant
On 03/03/2014 02:59 PM, Jay Pipes wrote: -1 from me. Sounds like a way to avoid badly needed change and innovation in the API. When, for example, would we be able to propose a patch that removed API extensions entirely? v3 didn't address this at all, anyway. I'm not even sure there's

Re: [openstack-dev] [Nova] Concrete Proposal for Keeping V2 API

2014-03-03 Thread Vishvananda Ishaya
This seems like a reasonable and well thought out approach but It feels like we are removing our ability to innovate. I know we are worried about maintaining multiple APIs, but I’m still leaning towards putting the v3 API out and just keeping v2 around for a long time. Yes, its a maintenance

Re: [openstack-dev] [Nova] Concrete Proposal for Keeping V2 API

2014-03-03 Thread Christopher Yeoh
On Mon, 03 Mar 2014 12:32:04 -0500 Russell Bryant rbry...@redhat.com wrote: The v3 API effort has produced a lot of excellent work. However, the majority opinion seems to be that we should avoid the cost of maintaining two APIs if at all possible. We should apply what has been learned to

Re: [openstack-dev] [Nova] Concrete Proposal for Keeping V2 API

2014-03-03 Thread Michael Still
I think its also pretty unfair on the people who put a lot of work into the v3 API. We're seriously going to delete their code after they put a year into it? To me OpenStack isn't just the users, its also the development community. I think we do measurable harm to that development community by

Re: [openstack-dev] [Nova] Concrete Proposal for Keeping V2 API

2014-03-03 Thread Jay Pipes
On Mon, 2014-03-03 at 15:24 -0500, Russell Bryant wrote: On 03/03/2014 02:59 PM, Jay Pipes wrote: -1 from me. Sounds like a way to avoid badly needed change and innovation in the API. When, for example, would we be able to propose a patch that removed API extensions entirely? v3 didn't

Re: [openstack-dev] [Nova] Concrete Proposal for Keeping V2 API

2014-03-03 Thread Russell Bryant
On 03/03/2014 04:25 PM, Vishvananda Ishaya wrote: This seems like a reasonable and well thought out approach but It feels like we are removing our ability to innovate. I think part of this exercise is trying to think through what freedom we *would* have to innovate in v2 with a set of changes

Re: [openstack-dev] [Nova] Concrete Proposal for Keeping V2 API

2014-03-03 Thread Michael Still
On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 4:32 AM, Russell Bryant rbry...@redhat.com wrote: There has been quite a bit of discussion about the future of the v3 API recently. There has been growing support for the idea that we should change course and focus on evolving the existing v2 API instead of putting out

Re: [openstack-dev] [Nova] Concrete Proposal for Keeping V2 API

2014-03-03 Thread Matt Riedemann
On 3/3/2014 12:27 PM, Joe Gordon wrote: On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 9:32 AM, Russell Bryant rbry...@redhat.com wrote: There has been quite a bit of discussion about the future of the v3 API recently. There has been growing support for the idea that we should change course and focus on evolving

Re: [openstack-dev] [Nova] Concrete Proposal for Keeping V2 API

2014-03-03 Thread Andrew Laski
On 03/03/14 at 04:48pm, Jay Pipes wrote: On Mon, 2014-03-03 at 15:24 -0500, Russell Bryant wrote: On 03/03/2014 02:59 PM, Jay Pipes wrote: -1 from me. Sounds like a way to avoid badly needed change and innovation in the API. When, for example, would we be able to propose a patch that removed

Re: [openstack-dev] [Nova] Concrete Proposal for Keeping V2 API

2014-03-03 Thread Jay Pipes
On Mon, 2014-03-03 at 17:56 -0500, Andrew Laski wrote: On 03/03/14 at 04:48pm, Jay Pipes wrote: On Mon, 2014-03-03 at 15:24 -0500, Russell Bryant wrote: On 03/03/2014 02:59 PM, Jay Pipes wrote: -1 from me. Sounds like a way to avoid badly needed change and innovation in the API. When,

Re: [openstack-dev] [Nova] Concrete Proposal for Keeping V2 API

2014-03-03 Thread Andrew Laski
On 03/03/14 at 06:17pm, Jay Pipes wrote: On Mon, 2014-03-03 at 17:56 -0500, Andrew Laski wrote: On 03/03/14 at 04:48pm, Jay Pipes wrote: On Mon, 2014-03-03 at 15:24 -0500, Russell Bryant wrote: On 03/03/2014 02:59 PM, Jay Pipes wrote: -1 from me. Sounds like a way to avoid badly needed

Re: [openstack-dev] [Nova] Concrete Proposal for Keeping V2 API

2014-03-03 Thread Kenichi Oomichi
-Original Message- From: Russell Bryant [mailto:rbry...@redhat.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2014 7:31 AM To: openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [Nova] Concrete Proposal for Keeping V2 API On 03/03/2014 04:25 PM, Vishvananda Ishaya wrote: This seems

Re: [openstack-dev] [Nova] Concrete Proposal for Keeping V2 API

2014-03-03 Thread Michael Still
On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 10:50 AM, Andrew Laski andrew.la...@rackspace.com wrote: Totally understand. But I would contend that it's because v3 is mostly minor changes that we're even having this conversation. In all fairness, that's because that's what we asked them to do when we approved the

Re: [openstack-dev] [Nova] Concrete Proposal for Keeping V2 API

2014-03-03 Thread Everett Toews
On Mar 3, 2014, at 1:25 PM, Vishvananda Ishaya vishvana...@gmail.com wrote: This seems like a reasonable and well thought out approach but It feels like we are removing our ability to innovate. I know we are worried about maintaining multiple APIs, but I’m still leaning towards putting the v3

Re: [openstack-dev] [Nova] Concrete Proposal for Keeping V2 API

2014-03-03 Thread Russell Bryant
On 03/03/2014 05:35 PM, Michael Still wrote: On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 4:32 AM, Russell Bryant rbry...@redhat.com wrote: There has been quite a bit of discussion about the future of the v3 API recently. There has been growing support for the idea that we should change course and focus on

Re: [openstack-dev] [Nova] Concrete Proposal for Keeping V2 API

2014-03-03 Thread Christopher Yeoh
On Mon, 03 Mar 2014 12:32:04 -0500 Russell Bryant rbry...@redhat.com wrote: There has been quite a bit of discussion about the future of the v3 API recently. There has been growing support for the idea that we should change course and focus on evolving the existing v2 API instead of putting