Re: [openstack-dev] [all][barbican][freezer][horizon][karbor][keystone][mistral][nova][pack-deb][refstack][solum][storlets][swift][tacker][telemetry][watcher][zaqar] Last days for PTL candidate announ

[Anita Kuno]

On 2017-08-11 10:21 AM, Jeremy Stanley wrote:

On 2017-08-11 09:37:08 +0200 (+0200), Flavio Percoco wrote:

On 10/08/17 14:04 -0400, Anita Kuno wrote:

[...]

Also to clarify, the election officials serve the TC, not the other
way around.

I would like to clarify this sentence, though. I do not think the
election officials serve the TC, neither the TC serves the
election officials. Both bodies serve the community and the
processes defined by it.

[...]

It's more accurate to say that the election officials are *appointed
by* the TC, but I agree we're all here to serve the community. In
the particular matter of identifying leaderless teams, the election
officials are definitely acting as advisors to the TC, and I can see
how it might be taken as a bit demeaning to imply that it makes them
servants of the TC. They are charged with reporting these findings
to the TC however, so in a sense that is a form of servitude.
Basically, you're both correct depending on how you look at it. ;)

I'm not sure how the phrase "to serve" has become equated with the 
phrase "to be demeaned" but it is a leap I don't make myself.


I consider to be of service to be a privilege and an honour. I was 
honoured to serve the TC as an election official, I guess it is my 
mistake in believing that others would value the same honour.


Thanks,
Anita.


__
OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe
http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev

Re: [openstack-dev] [all][barbican][freezer][horizon][karbor][keystone][mistral][nova][pack-deb][refstack][solum][storlets][swift][tacker][telemetry][watcher][zaqar] Last days for PTL candidate announ

[Jeremy Stanley]

On 2017-08-11 09:37:08 +0200 (+0200), Flavio Percoco wrote:
> On 10/08/17 14:04 -0400, Anita Kuno wrote:
[...]
> > Also to clarify, the election officials serve the TC, not the other
> > way around.
> 
> I would like to clarify this sentence, though. I do not think the
> election officials serve the TC, neither the TC serves the
> election officials. Both bodies serve the community and the
> processes defined by it.
[...]

It's more accurate to say that the election officials are *appointed
by* the TC, but I agree we're all here to serve the community. In
the particular matter of identifying leaderless teams, the election
officials are definitely acting as advisors to the TC, and I can see
how it might be taken as a bit demeaning to imply that it makes them
servants of the TC. They are charged with reporting these findings
to the TC however, so in a sense that is a form of servitude.
Basically, you're both correct depending on how you look at it. ;)
-- 
Jeremy Stanley


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature
__
OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe
http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev

Re: [openstack-dev] [all][barbican][freezer][horizon][karbor][keystone][mistral][nova][pack-deb][refstack][solum][storlets][swift][tacker][telemetry][watcher][zaqar] Last days for PTL candidate announ

[Flavio Percoco]

On 10/08/17 14:04 -0400, Anita Kuno wrote:

On 2017-08-07 03:50 PM, Kendall Nelson wrote:

Hello Everyone :)

A quick reminder that we are in the last days for PTL candidate
announcements.

If you want to stand for PTL, don't delay, follow the instructions at [1]
to make sure the community knows your intentions.

Make sure your candidacy has been submitted to the openstack/election
repository and approved by election officials.

Election statistics[2]:

This means that with approximately 2.5 days left more than 27% of projects
will be deemed leaderless.  In this case the TC will be bound by [3].


I thought that the language in this sentence, that the TC is bound by
the referenced resolution was a bit of mis-stating the relationship,
but I thought I would let it pass and that things would work
themselves out. However having read the language in Emmett's post to
the TC reporting which programs don't have a self-nominated PTL, I'm
motivated to clarify.

The TC is not bound. The TC has agreed to follow a process. The
election officials are bound, in as much as they are obliged to
communicate the list of leaderless programs to the TC without delay.
The TC is enabled by the process, not bound by it.

The TC CAN appoint a leader, they are not obliged to appoint a leader.
The TC may do other things as well, it depends on the circumstances.

Also to clarify, the election officials serve the TC, not the other
way around.


I would like to clarify this sentence, though. I do not think the election
officials serve the TC, neither the TC serves the election officials. Both
bodies serve the community and the processes defined by it.

The fact the TC oversees the community does not mean the latter (or any group in
it) serves the TC. if anything, I'd prefer to think the TC serves the community
and the groups the conform it.

That said, I think we could argue for a long time on the terms and words used to
communicate the various relationships. While I believe words are extremely
important, I also believe they are a bit less important if the message goes 
through.

In this case the message is that there are cases of leaderless teams this time
around and there's a process we can, should, and will follow.

Thanks for the clarifications, Anita. Thanks for the hard work on the elections,
Kendall.
Flavio

--
@flaper87
Flavio Percoco


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature
__
OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe
http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev

Re: [openstack-dev] [all][barbican][freezer][horizon][karbor][keystone][mistral][nova][pack-deb][refstack][solum][storlets][swift][tacker][telemetry][watcher][zaqar] Last days for PTL candidate announ

[Anita Kuno]

On 2017-08-07 03:50 PM, Kendall Nelson wrote:

Hello Everyone :)

A quick reminder that we are in the last days for PTL candidate
announcements.

If you want to stand for PTL, don't delay, follow the instructions at [1]
to make sure the community knows your intentions.

Make sure your candidacy has been submitted to the openstack/election
repository and approved by election officials.

Election statistics[2]:

This means that with approximately 2.5 days left more than 27% of projects
will be deemed leaderless.  In this case the TC will be bound by [3].


I thought that the language in this sentence, that the TC is bound by 
the referenced resolution was a bit of mis-stating the relationship, but 
I thought I would let it pass and that things would work themselves out. 
However having read the language in Emmett's post to the TC reporting 
which programs don't have a self-nominated PTL, I'm motivated to clarify.


The TC is not bound. The TC has agreed to follow a process. The election 
officials are bound, in as much as they are obliged to communicate the 
list of leaderless programs to the TC without delay. The TC is enabled 
by the process, not bound by it.


The TC CAN appoint a leader, they are not obliged to appoint a leader. 
The TC may do other things as well, it depends on the circumstances.


Also to clarify, the election officials serve the TC, not the other way 
around.


I'm not sure how this relationship got confused, if I played a role in 
creating the confusion, I apologize.


Thank you,
Anita.



Thank you,


-Kendall Nelson (diablo_rojo)

[1] http://governance.openstack.org/election/#how-to-submit-your-candidacy

[2] Assuming the open reviews below are validated

   https://review.openstack.org/#/q/is:open+project:openstack/election


[3]
http://governance.openstack.org/resolutions/20141128-elections-process-for-leaderless-programs.html





__
OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe
http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev

Re: [openstack-dev] [all][barbican][freezer][horizon][karbor][keystone][mistral][nova][pack-deb][refstack][solum][storlets][swift][tacker][telemetry][watcher][zaqar] Last days for PTL candidate announ

[Matt Riedemann]

On 8/7/2017 2:50 PM, Kendall Nelson wrote:

Hello Everyone :)

A quick reminder that we are in the last days for PTL candidate 
announcements.



If you want to stand for PTL, don't delay, follow the instructions at 
[1] to make sure the community knows your intentions.



Make sure your candidacy has been submitted to the openstack/election 
repository and approved by election officials.



Election statistics[2]:


This means that with approximately 2.5 days left more than 27% of 
projects will be deemed leaderless.  In this case the TC will be bound 
by [3].



Thank you,


-Kendall Nelson (diablo_rojo)


[1]http://governance.openstack.org/election/#how-to-submit-your-candidacy

[2] Assuming the open reviews below are validated

https://review.openstack.org/#/q/is:open+project:openstack/election

[3] 
http://governance.openstack.org/resolutions/20141128-elections-process-for-leaderless-programs.html









__
OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe
http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev



Despite mikal flaming up the twitter, I'll post something for Nova PTL 
in the next day or so. I had mentioned intentions in the nova meeting a 
couple of weeks ago basically saying I'd be happy to do it again for 
Queens unless someone else was thinking about doing it and wanted to 
talk first - not that anyone has to talk to me about it to nominate 
themselves.


Also, I've been kind of sort of distracted by this whole release 
candidate thing going on right now...


--

Thanks,

Matt

__
OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe
http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev