Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2017-08-09 Thread Morgan Fainberg
On Aug 9, 2017 16:48, "Kendall Nelson"  wrote:

Hello Everyone!

The PTL Nomination period is now over. The official candidate list is
available on the election website[0].

There are 2 projects without candidates, so according to this
resolution[1], the TC will have to appoint a new PTL for Storlets, and
Packaging-Deb.

There are 2 projects that will have elections: Ironic and Documentation. The
details for those will be posted shortly after we setup the CIVS system.

Thank you,

-Kendall Nelson (diablo_rojo)

[0]: http://governance.openstack.org/election/#
queens

-ptl-candidates

[1]: http://governance.openstack.org/resolutions/20141128-electio
ns-process-for-leaderless-programs.html



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I believe packaging deb is being retired[0].

[0] http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/
2017-August/120581.html

--Morgan
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[openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2017-08-09 Thread Kendall Nelson
Hello Everyone!

The PTL Nomination period is now over. The official candidate list is
available on the election website[0].

There are 2 projects without candidates, so according to this
resolution[1], the TC will have to appoint a new PTL for Storlets, and
Packaging-Deb.

There are 2 projects that will have elections: Ironic and Documentation. The
details for those will be posted shortly after we setup the CIVS system.

Thank you,

-Kendall Nelson (diablo_rojo)

[0]: http://governance.openstack.org/election/#
queens

-ptl-candidates

[1]:
http://governance.openstack.org/resolutions/20141128-elections-process-for-leaderless-programs.html
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Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2017-01-30 Thread Lana Brindley
Yes, I replied on the other thread. Thanks :)

L

On 30/01/17 16:48, Kendall Nelson wrote:
> Yes of course :) Did you want to schedule a meeting or just discuss here 
> more? 
> 
> I've seen some discussion about making UX to a working group? 
> 
> -Kendall (diablo_rojo) 
> 
> On Sun, Jan 29, 2017, 7:46 PM Lana Brindley  > wrote:
> 
> Hi Kendall,
> 
> I'd like to discuss the future of the UX project with you, if that's OK?
> 
> Lana
> 
> On 30/01/17 11:05, Kendall Nelson wrote:
> > Hello All!
> >
> > PTL Nomination is now over. The official candidate list is available on 
> the election website[0].
> >
> > There is only 1project without candidates, so according to this 
> resolution[1], the TC we'll have to appoint a new PTL for OpenStack UX.
> >
> > There are 5projects that will have an election: Ironic, Keystone, 
> Neutron, Quality Assurance and Stable Branch Maintenance.The details for 
> those will be posted shortly after we setup the CIVS system.
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> > [0]: http://governance.openstack.org/election/# 
> pike 
> -ptl-candidates
>  
> > [1]: 
> http://governance.openstack.org/resolutions/20141128-elections-process-for-leaderless-programs.html
> >
> >
> > 
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> --
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> Rackspace Cloud Builders Australia
> http://lanabrindley.com
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Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2017-01-29 Thread Kendall Nelson
Yes of course :) Did you want to schedule a meeting or just discuss here
more?

I've seen some discussion about making UX to a working group?

-Kendall (diablo_rojo)

On Sun, Jan 29, 2017, 7:46 PM Lana Brindley 
wrote:

> Hi Kendall,
>
> I'd like to discuss the future of the UX project with you, if that's OK?
>
> Lana
>
> On 30/01/17 11:05, Kendall Nelson wrote:
> > Hello All!
> >
> > PTL Nomination is now over. The official candidate list is available on
> the election website[0].
> >
> > There is only 1project without candidates, so according to this
> resolution[1], the TC we'll have to appoint a new PTL for OpenStack UX.
> >
> > There are 5projects that will have an election: Ironic, Keystone,
> Neutron, Quality Assurance and Stable Branch Maintenance.The details for
> those will be posted shortly after we setup the CIVS system.
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> > [0]: http://governance.openstack.org/election/# <
> http://governance.openstack.org/election/#pike-ptl-candidates>pike <
> http://governance.openstack.org/election/#pike-ptl-candidates>-ptl-candidates
> 
> > [1]:
> http://governance.openstack.org/resolutions/20141128-elections-process-for-leaderless-programs.html
> >
> >
> >
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>
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> http://lanabrindley.com
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Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2017-01-29 Thread Lana Brindley
On 30/01/17 14:15, Steve Martinelli wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 at 8:05 PM, Kendall Nelson  > wrote:
> 
> PTL Nomination is now over. The official candidate list is available on 
> the election website[0].
> 
> 
> It's great to see only 1 project was without a PTL!
>  
> 
> There is only 1project without candidates, so according to this 
> resolution[1], the TC we'll have to appoint a new PTL for OpenStack UX.
> 
> 
> The UX project was briefly discussed at a recent TC meeting (see the end of 
> the log) [1], with Piet stepping down there was some discussion about whether 
> or not it needs to be a standalone project, or can turn into a working group 
> (like the API working group).
> 
> Oh, Thierry sent something out to the mailing list already [2], no replies :(
> 
> [1] 
> http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2017/tc.2017-01-03-20.00.log.html
> [2] 
> http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-January/109622.html
> 

Ah, thanks Steve. I'll digest this and then reply on that thread :)

Lana

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Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2017-01-29 Thread Steve Martinelli
On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 at 8:05 PM, Kendall Nelson 
wrote:

> PTL Nomination is now over. The official candidate list is available on
> the election website[0].
>

It's great to see only 1 project was without a PTL!


> There is only 1 project without candidates, so according to this
> resolution[1], the TC we'll have to appoint a new PTL for OpenStack UX.
>

The UX project was briefly discussed at a recent TC meeting (see the end of
the log) [1], with Piet stepping down there was some discussion about
whether or not it needs to be a standalone project, or can turn into a
working group (like the API working group).

Oh, Thierry sent something out to the mailing list already [2], no replies
:(

[1]
http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2017/tc.2017-01-03-20.00.log.html
[2]
http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-January/109622.html
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Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2017-01-29 Thread Lana Brindley
Hi Kendall,

I'd like to discuss the future of the UX project with you, if that's OK?

Lana

On 30/01/17 11:05, Kendall Nelson wrote:
> Hello All!
> 
> PTL Nomination is now over. The official candidate list is available on the 
> election website[0].
> 
> There is only 1project without candidates, so according to this 
> resolution[1], the TC we'll have to appoint a new PTL for OpenStack UX.
> 
> There are 5projects that will have an election: Ironic, Keystone, Neutron, 
> Quality Assurance and Stable Branch Maintenance.The details for those will be 
> posted shortly after we setup the CIVS system.
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> [0]: http://governance.openstack.org/election/# 
> pike 
> -ptl-candidates
>  
> [1]: 
> http://governance.openstack.org/resolutions/20141128-elections-process-for-leaderless-programs.html
> 
> 
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[openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2017-01-29 Thread Kendall Nelson
Hello All!

PTL Nomination is now over. The official candidate list is available on the
election website[0].

There is only 1 project without candidates, so according to this
resolution[1], the TC we'll have to appoint a new PTL for OpenStack UX.

There are 5 projects that will have an election: Ironic, Keystone, Neutron,
Quality Assurance and Stable Branch Maintenance. The details for those will
be posted shortly after we setup the CIVS system.

Thank you,

[0]: http://governance.openstack.org/election/#
pike

-ptl-candidates

[1]:
http://governance.openstack.org/resolutions/20141128-elections-process-for-leaderless-programs.html
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[openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2016-09-18 Thread Tristan Cacqueray
PTL Nomination is now over. The official candidate list is available on
the election website[0].

There are 4 projects without candidates, so according to this
resolution[1], the TC we'll have to appoint a new PTL for Astara,
OpenStackSalt, OpenStack UX, Security

There are 6 projects that will have an election: Freezer, Ironic,
Keystone, Kolla, Magnum and Quality_Assurance. The details for those
will be posted shortly after we setup the CIVS system.

Thank you,

[0]: http://governance.openstack.org/election/#ocata-ptl-candidates
[1]:
http://governance.openstack.org/resolutions/20141128-elections-process-for-leaderless-programs.html



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[openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2016-03-19 Thread Tristan Cacqueray
PTL Nomination is now over. The official candidate list is available on
the wiki[0].

There are 3 projects without candidates, so according to this
resolution[1], the TC we'll have to appoint a new PTL for Ec2-Api,
Stable_Branch_Maintenance and Winstackers

There are 10 projects that will have an election: Cinder, Fuel, Glance,
Heat, Infrastructure, Keystone, Kolla, Magnum, Packaging-Rpm and
Telemetry. The details for those will be posted shortly after we setup
the CIVS system.

Thank you,
-Tristan

[0]:
https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/PTL_Elections_March_2016#Confirmed_Candidates
[1]:
http://governance.openstack.org/resolutions/20141128-elections-process-for-leaderless-programs.html



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Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2015-09-23 Thread Thierry Carrez
Tristan Cacqueray wrote:
> [...]
> There are 5 projects without candidates, so according to this
> resolution[1], the TC we'll have to appoint a new PTL for Barbican,
> MagnetoDB, Magnum, Murano and Security
> [...]

Following our policy[1], the Technical Committee decided[2] the
following for project teams without PTL candidates in the nomination
timeframe:

- Robert Clark was nominated PTL for the Security Team.

- Serg Melikyan was nominated PTL for the Murano Team.

- Douglas Mendizabal was nominated PTL for the Barbican Team.

- An election should be held for Magnum contributors to pick their PTL
between Adrian Otto and Hongbin Lu. It will be organized by election
officials at their earliest convenience.

- MagnetoDB being abandoned, no PTL was chosen. Instead, we decided to
fast-track the removal[3] of MagnetoDB from the official list of
OpenStack projects.

[1]
http://governance.openstack.org/resolutions/20141128-elections-process-for-leaderless-programs.html

[2] http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-09-22-20.01.html

[3] https://review.openstack.org/#/c/224743/

Regards,

-- 
Thierry Carrez (ttx)



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Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2015-09-21 Thread Flavio Percoco

On 18/09/15 13:41 -0400, Nikhil Komawar wrote:

I agree with Ed here.

If we have a stipulated time period set for proposals then grace period sounds
like a real-life deal. However, I would also encourage the idea of opening this
up early and keep the folder ready and officials review the merge prop 2 months
prior to the final date. It's better to have a final date with longer open
period than a small firm set date.

my 2 pennies worth.

On 9/18/15 1:15 PM, Ed Leafe wrote:

   On Sep 18, 2015, at 7:27 AM, Flavio Percoco  wrote:


   I'm strongly against this extra rules. OpenStack Officials Elections 
are
   ran by volunteers and any rules that adds complexity should be 
avoided.

   +1

   Also, the schedule is announced 6 months in advance. The candidacy
   period is announced when it starts and a reminder is sent a couple of
   days before it ends.

   +1 to sticking to deadlines. A grace period just mean a different deadline.

   I don't, however, see the need for a firm start date. Comparing this to the 
feature freeze development cycle, in Nova we started opening up the specs for 
the N+1 cycle early in cycle N so that people can propose a spec early instead 
of waiting months and potentially missing the next window. So how about letting 
candidates declare early in the cycle by adding their names to the election 
repo at any time during the cycle up to the firm deadline? This might also 
encourage candidates not to wait until the last minute.


Agreed,

Just wanted to mention that this was also proposed here: 
http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-September/074888.html

Ideally, we'd have the repo open as soon as the code name for the next
cycle is chosen (since the code name is needed).

Flavio



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Thanks,
Nikhil




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Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2015-09-21 Thread Kashyap Chamarthy
On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 05:09:04PM -0400, Nikhil Komawar wrote:

[. . .]

> > I think this is all superfluous however and we should simply encourage
> > people to not wait until the last minute. Waiting to see who is
> > running/what the field looks like isn't as important as standing up
> > and saying you're interested in running.
> 
> I like that you have used the word encourage however, will have to
> disagree here. Life in general can't permit that to everyone -- there
> can be any important things pop up at unexpected time, someone on
> vacation and getting late to come back etc. And on top of that people
> can get caught up particularly at this week.  The time-line for
> proposals is a good idea seems a good idea in general.

Morgan is absolutely right.

The risk of unexpected things cropping up is always there.  If one has
the _intention_ to run for PTL, then they should make it a priority to
send the nomination as early as possible once timelines are announced
(more so if you're an incumbent PTL), rather than waiting for the last
moment.

Also, don't miss the unambiguously clear comment from Matt Riedemann:

"If running for PTL is something you had in mind to begin with, you
should probably be looking forward to when the elections start and
get your ducks in a row.  Part of being PTL, a large part I'd think,
is the ability to organize and manage things. If you're waiting
until the 11th hour to do this, I wouldn't have much sympathy."

-- 
/kashyap

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Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2015-09-18 Thread Flavio Percoco

On 18/09/15 09:17 +0100, Steven Hardy wrote:

On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 08:56:06AM +0200, Flavio Percoco wrote:

On 17/09/15 16:00 -0400, Doug Hellmann wrote:
>Excerpts from Morgan Fainberg's message of 2015-09-17 12:51:33 -0700:
>
>>I think this is all superfluous however and we should simply encourage
>>people to not wait until the last minute. Waiting to see who is
>>running/what the field looks like isn't as important as standing up and
>>saying you're interested in running.
>
>+1

Just want to +1 this. I'm going to be, probably, extrem here and
sugest that we should just shrink the candidacy period to 1 (max 2)
days.


-1 - the "problem" here (if you want to call it that) is that some folks
evidently found a week nomination period insufficient, for $whatever reason.

The obvious solution to that is to simply adopt the same branch model for
the openstack/election repo as all other projects - create a branch (or
directory) per release in openstack/election, and allow candidates to
propose their candidacy at any time during the preceding release cycle.

Then, if you clearly state the deadline ahead of time, you simply publish
results and/or start elections on that date, with whatever is in the repo
on that date and folks have the whole cycle (say from summit to RC1 time)
to consider running and propose their candidacy whenever they want.


This is the same thing I said in my previous email (you cut that off
of your reply) with the only difference that you're suggesting not
having a "candidacy day" but rather just have a "start election" day.

I'd argue saying that a deadline for candidacies is useful to have and
it brings more formality to the process. It helps, in the case of
using `openstack/elections` to have a deadline for cutting the branch
or freezing reviews, etc.

Setting up the election takes some time, which means there has to be a
date where the election officers stop considering new candidacies.



I also think this would encourage discussion within the project teams about
who wants to run for PTL, with transparency about those interested/willing
ahead of time.


+1


Perhaps you might WIP all submissions until a few days before the deadline,
such that if communities decide via mutual agreement one candidate should
take their turn as PTL submissions may be abandoned without any election.


I guess this may work in some cases but this defeats the whole purpose
of having an election and being able to vote, in private, which many
people value.


IMHO rotation of PTL responsibilities is healthy, as is discussion
and openness in the community - being PTL isn't some sort of prize, it's a
time-consuming burden, which is mostly about coordination and release
management, not really about "leadership" at all (although it is about
community building and leading by example..)

I guess what I mean is I'm not really sure what the timeboxed nomination
period aims to achieve, particularly if you shrink it to one or two days -
that makes it extremely easy for folks to miss due to illness/travel or
$whatever, and implies some kind of race - which is the opposite, IMHO of
the dynamic we should be encouraging.


In my previous email I mentioned that folks can simply send the
candidacy in advance or have someone else to propose it. Seriously,
it's not about having a single day for sending the candidacy, it's
about having a clear deadline where no more candidacies are
considered. If a candidacy is sent 4 months in advance, I guess that's
fine. I don't care.

Cheers,
Flavio

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Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2015-09-18 Thread Flavio Percoco

On 17/09/15 16:00 -0400, Doug Hellmann wrote:

Excerpts from Morgan Fainberg's message of 2015-09-17 12:51:33 -0700:


I think this is all superfluous however and we should simply encourage
people to not wait until the last minute. Waiting to see who is
running/what the field looks like isn't as important as standing up and
saying you're interested in running.


+1


Just want to +1 this. I'm going to be, probably, extrem here and
sugest that we should just shrink the candidacy period to 1 (max 2)
days.

The election period is announced way earlier in the cycle. Candidates
have 6 month to think about what should come next for their project.
Instead of having a full week to send candidacies, I'd just send a
reminder that the candidacy day is coming and everyone should get
their candidacies done.

If, for some reason, someone can't send the candidacy the day when
candidacies should be sent, then it'd be possible to designate someone
to submit it for review on his behalf. Even better, since now it's all
done through gerrit, that person can just send it in advance.

Flavio

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Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2015-09-18 Thread Sylvain Bauza



Le 17/09/2015 23:09, Nikhil Komawar a écrit :


On 9/17/15 3:51 PM, Morgan Fainberg wrote:


On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 12:00 PM, Kevin Benton > wrote:

 It guarantees that if you hit the date deadline local time, that
 you won't miss the deadline. It doesn't matter if there are extra
 hours afterwards. The idea is that it gets rid of the need to do
 time zone conversions.

 If we are trying to do some weird optimization where everyone
 wants to submit in the last 60 seconds, then sure AOE isn't great
 for that because you still have to convert. It doesn't seem to me
 like that's what we are trying to do though.

Alternatively you give a UTC time (which all of our meetings are in
anyway) and set the deadline. Maybe we should be setting the deadline
to the western-most timezone (UTC-11/-12?) 23:59 as the deadline. This
would simply do what you're stating without having to explain AOE more
concretely than "submit by 23:59 your tz day X".

I think this is all superfluous however and we should simply encourage
people to not wait until the last minute. Waiting to see who is
running/what the field looks like isn't as important as standing up
and saying you're interested in running.


I like that you have used the word encourage however, will have to
disagree here. Life in general can't permit that to everyone -- there
can be any important things pop up at unexpected time, someone on
vacation and getting late to come back etc. And on top of that people
can get caught up particularly at this week.  The time-line for
proposals is a good idea seems a good idea in general.


That's exactly why the schedule is always proposed in the beginning of 
the cycle [1] so that any people interested in becoming PTLs would need 
to make sure that they could provide their candidacy (there are 7 days 
for proposing).


Also, the policy accepts to have a candidacy proposed by someone else, 
just by having the candidate +1'ing the change even after the deadline, 
so anyone in vacation can just proxy his candidacy by someone else.


Last but not the least, I assume that people wanting to be PTLs 
understand that they are here for helping the community so they have 
also to understand how the community works and what its rules are.


-Sylvain

[1] 
https://wiki.openstack.org/w/index.php?title=Liberty_Release_Schedule=78501



You shouldn't worry about hurting anyone's feelings by running and
more importantly most PTLs will be happy to have someone else shoulder
some of the weight; by tossing your name into the ring it signals
you're willing to help out in this regard. I know that as a PTL (an
outgoing one at that) having this clear signal would raise an
individual towards the top of the list for asking if they want the
responsibility delegated to them as it was indicated they already
wanted to be part of leadership for the project.

Just a $0.02 on the timing concerns.

--Morgan
  




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  My 2 pennies worth.




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Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2015-09-18 Thread Flavio Percoco

On 17/09/15 15:47 -0400, Doug Hellmann wrote:

Excerpts from Thierry Carrez's message of 2015-09-17 18:10:26 +0200:

Monty Taylor wrote:
> I agree- and this is a great example of places where human judgement is
> better than rules.
>
> For instance - one of the projects had a nominee but it missed the
> deadline, so that's probably an easy on.
>
> For one of the projects it had been looking dead for a while, so this is
> the final nail in the coffin from my POV
>
> For the other three - I know they're still active projects with people
> interested in them, so sorting them out will be fun!

Looks like in 4 cases (Magnum, Barbican, Murano, Security) there is
actually a candidate, they just missed the deadline. So that should be
an easy discussion at the next TC meeting.

For the last one, it is not an accident. I think it is indeed the final
nail on the coffin.



Yes, I was planning to wait until after the summit to propose that we
drop MagnetoDB from the official list of projects due to inactivity. We
can deal with it sooner, obviously.


+1

--
@flaper87
Flavio Percoco


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Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2015-09-18 Thread Tristan Cacqueray
On 09/17/2015 09:15 PM, Nikhil Komawar wrote:
> 
> I like to solve problems and seems like this is a common problem in many
> conferences, seminars, etc. The usual way of solving this issue is to
> have a grace period with last minute extension to deadline for
> proposals, possibly for a unknown period of time and unannounced.

I'm strongly against this extra rules. OpenStack Officials Elections are
ran by volunteers and any rules that adds complexity should be avoided.

Thanks,
Tristan




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Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2015-09-18 Thread Flavio Percoco

On 18/09/15 12:22 +, Tristan Cacqueray wrote:

On 09/17/2015 09:15 PM, Nikhil Komawar wrote:


I like to solve problems and seems like this is a common problem in many
conferences, seminars, etc. The usual way of solving this issue is to
have a grace period with last minute extension to deadline for
proposals, possibly for a unknown period of time and unannounced.


I'm strongly against this extra rules. OpenStack Officials Elections are
ran by volunteers and any rules that adds complexity should be avoided.


+1

Also, the schedule is announced 6 months in advance. The candidacy
period is announced when it starts and a reminder is sent a couple of
days before it ends.

This is not to say that ppl is not subject to other, not expected,
inconvenienes but I don't think extending the period or bending the
process is the right solution here.


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Flavio Percoco


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Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2015-09-18 Thread Tristan Cacqueray
On 09/18/2015 09:41 AM, Steven Hardy wrote:
>> In my previous email I mentioned that folks can simply send the
>> > candidacy in advance or have someone else to propose it. Seriously,
>> > it's not about having a single day for sending the candidacy, it's
>> > about having a clear deadline where no more candidacies are
>> > considered. If a candidacy is sent 4 months in advance, I guess that's
>> > fine. I don't care.
> Cool, that wasn't really how I interpreted your previous mail, sounds like
> we're in violent agreement! :)
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Steve

There is one technical issue if we want to let candidate submit their
candidacy early on. The openstack/election repository needs a cycle name
as well as a the final project list.



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Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2015-09-18 Thread Tristan Cacqueray
On 09/17/2015 09:04 PM, Hongbin Lu wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I am fine to have an election with Adrian Otto, and potentially with other 
> candidates who are also late.
> 
> Best regards,
> Hongbin

That sounds like a excellent idea. Is there a reason why a current PTL
position couldn't be re-elected outside of the official election system ?

If candidates agrees, then project contributors should be able to elect
their leader.

Best,
Tristan



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Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2015-09-18 Thread Tristan Cacqueray
On 09/18/2015 06:58 AM, Flavio Percoco wrote:
> On 17/09/15 15:47 -0400, Doug Hellmann wrote:
>> Excerpts from Thierry Carrez's message of 2015-09-17 18:10:26 +0200:
>>> Monty Taylor wrote:
>>> > I agree- and this is a great example of places where human
>>> judgement is
>>> > better than rules.
>>> >
>>> > For instance - one of the projects had a nominee but it missed the
>>> > deadline, so that's probably an easy on.
>>> >
>>> > For one of the projects it had been looking dead for a while, so
>>> this is
>>> > the final nail in the coffin from my POV
>>> >
>>> > For the other three - I know they're still active projects with people
>>> > interested in them, so sorting them out will be fun!
>>>
>>> Looks like in 4 cases (Magnum, Barbican, Murano, Security) there is
>>> actually a candidate, they just missed the deadline. So that should be
>>> an easy discussion at the next TC meeting.

To be more precise, there are 2 candidacies for Magnum and 1 for
Security. I would prefer all candidates have their candidacy statement
proposed and then merged upon TC decision.

>>>
>>> For the last one, it is not an accident. I think it is indeed the final
>>> nail on the coffin.
>>>
>>
>> Yes, I was planning to wait until after the summit to propose that we
>> drop MagnetoDB from the official list of projects due to inactivity. We
>> can deal with it sooner, obviously.
> 
> +1
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2015-09-18 Thread Steven Hardy
On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 08:56:06AM +0200, Flavio Percoco wrote:
> On 17/09/15 16:00 -0400, Doug Hellmann wrote:
> >Excerpts from Morgan Fainberg's message of 2015-09-17 12:51:33 -0700:
> >
> >>I think this is all superfluous however and we should simply encourage
> >>people to not wait until the last minute. Waiting to see who is
> >>running/what the field looks like isn't as important as standing up and
> >>saying you're interested in running.
> >
> >+1
> 
> Just want to +1 this. I'm going to be, probably, extrem here and
> sugest that we should just shrink the candidacy period to 1 (max 2)
> days.

-1 - the "problem" here (if you want to call it that) is that some folks
evidently found a week nomination period insufficient, for $whatever reason.

The obvious solution to that is to simply adopt the same branch model for
the openstack/election repo as all other projects - create a branch (or
directory) per release in openstack/election, and allow candidates to
propose their candidacy at any time during the preceding release cycle.

Then, if you clearly state the deadline ahead of time, you simply publish
results and/or start elections on that date, with whatever is in the repo
on that date and folks have the whole cycle (say from summit to RC1 time)
to consider running and propose their candidacy whenever they want.

I also think this would encourage discussion within the project teams about
who wants to run for PTL, with transparency about those interested/willing
ahead of time.

Perhaps you might WIP all submissions until a few days before the deadline,
such that if communities decide via mutual agreement one candidate should
take their turn as PTL submissions may be abandoned without any election.

IMHO rotation of PTL responsibilities is healthy, as is discussion
and openness in the community - being PTL isn't some sort of prize, it's a
time-consuming burden, which is mostly about coordination and release
management, not really about "leadership" at all (although it is about
community building and leading by example..)

I guess what I mean is I'm not really sure what the timeboxed nomination
period aims to achieve, particularly if you shrink it to one or two days -
that makes it extremely easy for folks to miss due to illness/travel or
$whatever, and implies some kind of race - which is the opposite, IMHO of
the dynamic we should be encouraging.

Steve

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Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2015-09-18 Thread Steven Hardy
On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 10:55:30AM +0200, Flavio Percoco wrote:
> On 18/09/15 09:17 +0100, Steven Hardy wrote:
> >On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 08:56:06AM +0200, Flavio Percoco wrote:
> >>On 17/09/15 16:00 -0400, Doug Hellmann wrote:
> >>>Excerpts from Morgan Fainberg's message of 2015-09-17 12:51:33 -0700:
> >>>
> I think this is all superfluous however and we should simply encourage
> people to not wait until the last minute. Waiting to see who is
> running/what the field looks like isn't as important as standing up and
> saying you're interested in running.
> >>>
> >>>+1
> >>
> >>Just want to +1 this. I'm going to be, probably, extrem here and
> >>sugest that we should just shrink the candidacy period to 1 (max 2)
> >>days.
> >
> >-1 - the "problem" here (if you want to call it that) is that some folks
> >evidently found a week nomination period insufficient, for $whatever reason.
> >
> >The obvious solution to that is to simply adopt the same branch model for
> >the openstack/election repo as all other projects - create a branch (or
> >directory) per release in openstack/election, and allow candidates to
> >propose their candidacy at any time during the preceding release cycle.
> >
> >Then, if you clearly state the deadline ahead of time, you simply publish
> >results and/or start elections on that date, with whatever is in the repo
> >on that date and folks have the whole cycle (say from summit to RC1 time)
> >to consider running and propose their candidacy whenever they want.
> 
> This is the same thing I said in my previous email (you cut that off
> of your reply) with the only difference that you're suggesting not
> having a "candidacy day" but rather just have a "start election" day.

Ok, apologies, it wasn't my intention to mis-quote you, but I interpreted
your comments as meaning "candidacy period" meant proposals for candidacy
could *only* be made during that time, e.g your remarks about designating
someone to submit a review on a particular day.

> I'd argue saying that a deadline for candidacies is useful to have and
> it brings more formality to the process. It helps, in the case of
> using `openstack/elections` to have a deadline for cutting the branch
> or freezing reviews, etc.
> 
> Setting up the election takes some time, which means there has to be a
> date where the election officers stop considering new candidacies.

I think we're basically in agreement and arguing for the same thing - folks
should be able to look at the release schedule, and see, just like the
clearly communicated "feature freeze" date, a PTL candidacy freeze.

> >I also think this would encourage discussion within the project teams about
> >who wants to run for PTL, with transparency about those interested/willing
> >ahead of time.
> 
> +1
> 
> >Perhaps you might WIP all submissions until a few days before the deadline,
> >such that if communities decide via mutual agreement one candidate should
> >take their turn as PTL submissions may be abandoned without any election.
> 
> I guess this may work in some cases but this defeats the whole purpose
> of having an election and being able to vote, in private, which many
> people value.

Sure, but the dynamic implied by voting in private, an election, and
proposing candidacy at the last minute is one of competition for the role.

That, IMHO, is not all that healthy in this context, and most communities
should already be making all sorts of decisions by consensus, discussion
and mutual agreement.

Nothing I'm prosing defeats the purpose of the existing system - if more
than one candidate is keen to volunteer, they just do so, and the election
happens just as it does now.

> >IMHO rotation of PTL responsibilities is healthy, as is discussion
> >and openness in the community - being PTL isn't some sort of prize, it's a
> >time-consuming burden, which is mostly about coordination and release
> >management, not really about "leadership" at all (although it is about
> >community building and leading by example..)
> >
> >I guess what I mean is I'm not really sure what the timeboxed nomination
> >period aims to achieve, particularly if you shrink it to one or two days -
> >that makes it extremely easy for folks to miss due to illness/travel or
> >$whatever, and implies some kind of race - which is the opposite, IMHO of
> >the dynamic we should be encouraging.
> 
> In my previous email I mentioned that folks can simply send the
> candidacy in advance or have someone else to propose it. Seriously,
> it's not about having a single day for sending the candidacy, it's
> about having a clear deadline where no more candidacies are
> considered. If a candidacy is sent 4 months in advance, I guess that's
> fine. I don't care.

Cool, that wasn't really how I interpreted your previous mail, sounds like
we're in violent agreement! :)

Cheers,

Steve

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Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2015-09-18 Thread Ed Leafe
On Sep 18, 2015, at 7:27 AM, Flavio Percoco  wrote:

>> I'm strongly against this extra rules. OpenStack Officials Elections are
>> ran by volunteers and any rules that adds complexity should be avoided.
> 
> +1
> 
> Also, the schedule is announced 6 months in advance. The candidacy
> period is announced when it starts and a reminder is sent a couple of
> days before it ends.

+1 to sticking to deadlines. A grace period just mean a different deadline.

I don't, however, see the need for a firm start date. Comparing this to the 
feature freeze development cycle, in Nova we started opening up the specs for 
the N+1 cycle early in cycle N so that people can propose a spec early instead 
of waiting months and potentially missing the next window. So how about letting 
candidates declare early in the cycle by adding their names to the election 
repo at any time during the cycle up to the firm deadline? This might also 
encourage candidates not to wait until the last minute.

-- Ed Leafe







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Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2015-09-18 Thread Nikhil Komawar
I agree with Ed here.

If we have a stipulated time period set for proposals then grace period
sounds like a real-life deal. However, I would also encourage the idea
of opening this up early and keep the folder ready and officials review
the merge prop 2 months prior to the final date. It's better to have a
final date with longer open period than a small firm set date.

my 2 pennies worth.

On 9/18/15 1:15 PM, Ed Leafe wrote:
> On Sep 18, 2015, at 7:27 AM, Flavio Percoco  wrote:
>
>>> I'm strongly against this extra rules. OpenStack Officials Elections are
>>> ran by volunteers and any rules that adds complexity should be avoided.
>> +1
>>
>> Also, the schedule is announced 6 months in advance. The candidacy
>> period is announced when it starts and a reminder is sent a couple of
>> days before it ends.
> +1 to sticking to deadlines. A grace period just mean a different deadline.
>
> I don't, however, see the need for a firm start date. Comparing this to the 
> feature freeze development cycle, in Nova we started opening up the specs for 
> the N+1 cycle early in cycle N so that people can propose a spec early 
> instead of waiting months and potentially missing the next window. So how 
> about letting candidates declare early in the cycle by adding their names to 
> the election repo at any time during the cycle up to the firm deadline? This 
> might also encourage candidates not to wait until the last minute.
>
> -- Ed Leafe
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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-- 

Thanks,
Nikhil

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Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2015-09-17 Thread Anne Gentle
On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 10:26 AM, Monty Taylor  wrote:

> On 09/17/2015 04:50 PM, Anita Kuno wrote:
>
>> On 09/17/2015 08:22 AM, Matt Riedemann wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 9/17/2015 8:25 AM, Tristan Cacqueray wrote:
>>>
 PTL Nomination is now over. The official candidate list is available on
 the wiki[0].

 There are 5 projects without candidates, so according to this
 resolution[1], the TC we'll have to appoint a new PTL for Barbican,
 MagnetoDB, Magnum, Murano and Security

>>>
>>> This is devil's advocate, but why does a project technically need a PTL?
>>>   Just so that there can be a contact point for cross-project things,
>>> i.e. a lightning rod?  There are projects that do a lot of group
>>> leadership/delegation/etc, so it doesn't seem that a PTL is technically
>>> required in all cases.
>>>
>>
>> I think that is a great question for the TC to consider when they
>> evaluate options for action with these projects.
>>
>> The election officials are fulfilling their obligation according to the
>> resolution:
>>
>> http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/governance/tree/resolutions/20141128-elections-process-for-leaderless-programs.rst
>>
>> If you read the verb there the verb is "can" not "must", I choose the
>> verb "can" on purpose for the resolution when I wrote it. The TC has the
>> option to select an appointee. The TC can do other things as well,
>> should the TC choose.
>>
>
> I agree- and this is a great example of places where human judgement is
> better than rules.
>
> For instance - one of the projects had a nominee but it missed the
> deadline, so that's probably an easy on.
>

Honestly I did the "Thursday" alignment math in my head and thought of it
in my non-futuristic timezone. Plus I have a Thursday release mentality
thanks to Theirry's years of excellent release management. :)

Plus, I further confused a couple of candidates when encouraging candidacy
posts, so I apologize for that! I am trying to get ahead of what we'll have
to do on the TC anyway.

I'd like to apply some common sense here and if this many candidates on
both sides of the globe got confused, we can still take that into
consideration when taking next steps.


>
> For one of the projects it had been looking dead for a while, so this is
> the final nail in the coffin from my POV
>

I'm not sure we've defined a coffin really, more of an attic/shelving
system. :)

I'll definitely take some time to follow up with individuals in this
deadline confusion system when we take next steps on the TC.

Anne


>
> For the other three - I know they're still active projects with people
> interested in them, so sorting them out will be fun!
>
>
>
>>
>>>
 There are 7 projects that will have an election: Cinder, Glance, Ironic,
 Keystone, Mistral, Neutron and Oslo. The details for those will be
 posted tomorrow after Tony and I setup the CIVS system.

 Thank you,
 Tristan


 [0]:

 https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/PTL_Elections_September_2015#Confirmed_Candidates

 [1]:

 http://governance.openstack.org/resolutions/20141128-elections-process-for-leaderless-programs.html






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>>>
>>
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Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2015-09-17 Thread Thierry Carrez
Monty Taylor wrote:
> I agree- and this is a great example of places where human judgement is
> better than rules.
> 
> For instance - one of the projects had a nominee but it missed the
> deadline, so that's probably an easy on.
> 
> For one of the projects it had been looking dead for a while, so this is
> the final nail in the coffin from my POV
> 
> For the other three - I know they're still active projects with people
> interested in them, so sorting them out will be fun!

Looks like in 4 cases (Magnum, Barbican, Murano, Security) there is
actually a candidate, they just missed the deadline. So that should be
an easy discussion at the next TC meeting.

For the last one, it is not an accident. I think it is indeed the final
nail on the coffin.

-- 
Thierry Carrez (ttx)

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Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2015-09-17 Thread Matt Riedemann



On 9/17/2015 8:25 AM, Tristan Cacqueray wrote:

PTL Nomination is now over. The official candidate list is available on
the wiki[0].

There are 5 projects without candidates, so according to this
resolution[1], the TC we'll have to appoint a new PTL for Barbican,
MagnetoDB, Magnum, Murano and Security


This is devil's advocate, but why does a project technically need a PTL? 
 Just so that there can be a contact point for cross-project things, 
i.e. a lightning rod?  There are projects that do a lot of group 
leadership/delegation/etc, so it doesn't seem that a PTL is technically 
required in all cases.




There are 7 projects that will have an election: Cinder, Glance, Ironic,
Keystone, Mistral, Neutron and Oslo. The details for those will be
posted tomorrow after Tony and I setup the CIVS system.

Thank you,
Tristan


[0]:
https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/PTL_Elections_September_2015#Confirmed_Candidates
[1]:
http://governance.openstack.org/resolutions/20141128-elections-process-for-leaderless-programs.html




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Thanks,

Matt Riedemann


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Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2015-09-17 Thread Morgan Fainberg
Time.is is showing utc in "PM" not a 24 hour clock. It is past 1500 UTC at the 
moment. 

Sent via mobile

> On Sep 17, 2015, at 08:05, Douglas Mendizábal 
>  wrote:
> 
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA512
> 
> I think someone jumped the gun on this thread.  According to the wiki
> [1] the cutoff time is not until 5:59 UTC, which
> doesn't happen for another few hours. [2]
> 
> Am I missing something?
> 
> [1] https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/PTL_Elections_September_2015
> [2] http://time.is/UTC
> 
> Douglas Mendizábal
> 
>> On 9/17/15 9:50 AM, Anita Kuno wrote:
>>> On 09/17/2015 08:22 AM, Matt Riedemann wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
 On 9/17/2015 8:25 AM, Tristan Cacqueray wrote:
 PTL Nomination is now over. The official candidate list is 
 available on the wiki[0].
 
 There are 5 projects without candidates, so according to this 
 resolution[1], the TC we'll have to appoint a new PTL for 
 Barbican, MagnetoDB, Magnum, Murano and Security
>>> 
>>> This is devil's advocate, but why does a project technically
>>> need a PTL? Just so that there can be a contact point for 
>>> cross-project things, i.e. a lightning rod?  There are projects 
>>> that do a lot of group leadership/delegation/etc, so it doesn't 
>>> seem that a PTL is technically required in all cases.
>> 
>> I think that is a great question for the TC to consider when they 
>> evaluate options for action with these projects.
>> 
>> The election officials are fulfilling their obligation according
>> to the resolution: 
>> http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/governance/tree/resolutions/20
> 141128-elections-process-for-leaderless-programs.rst
> If you read the verb there the verb is "can" not "must", I choose
>> the verb "can" on purpose for the resolution when I wrote it. The 
>> TC has the option to select an appointee. The TC can do other 
>> things as well, should the TC choose.
>> 
>> Thanks, Anita.
>> 
>>> 
 
 There are 7 projects that will have an election: Cinder, 
 Glance, Ironic, Keystone, Mistral, Neutron and Oslo. The 
 details for those will be posted tomorrow after Tony and I 
 setup the CIVS system.
 
 Thank you, Tristan
 
 
 [0]: 
 https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/PTL_Elections_September_2015#Confirm
> ed_Candidates
> [1]:
 http://governance.openstack.org/resolutions/20141128-elections-proce
> ss-for-leaderless-programs.html
> 
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Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2015-09-17 Thread Monty Taylor

On 09/17/2015 04:50 PM, Anita Kuno wrote:

On 09/17/2015 08:22 AM, Matt Riedemann wrote:



On 9/17/2015 8:25 AM, Tristan Cacqueray wrote:

PTL Nomination is now over. The official candidate list is available on
the wiki[0].

There are 5 projects without candidates, so according to this
resolution[1], the TC we'll have to appoint a new PTL for Barbican,
MagnetoDB, Magnum, Murano and Security


This is devil's advocate, but why does a project technically need a PTL?
  Just so that there can be a contact point for cross-project things,
i.e. a lightning rod?  There are projects that do a lot of group
leadership/delegation/etc, so it doesn't seem that a PTL is technically
required in all cases.


I think that is a great question for the TC to consider when they
evaluate options for action with these projects.

The election officials are fulfilling their obligation according to the
resolution:
http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/governance/tree/resolutions/20141128-elections-process-for-leaderless-programs.rst

If you read the verb there the verb is "can" not "must", I choose the
verb "can" on purpose for the resolution when I wrote it. The TC has the
option to select an appointee. The TC can do other things as well,
should the TC choose.


I agree- and this is a great example of places where human judgement is 
better than rules.


For instance - one of the projects had a nominee but it missed the 
deadline, so that's probably an easy on.


For one of the projects it had been looking dead for a while, so this is 
the final nail in the coffin from my POV


For the other three - I know they're still active projects with people 
interested in them, so sorting them out will be fun!








There are 7 projects that will have an election: Cinder, Glance, Ironic,
Keystone, Mistral, Neutron and Oslo. The details for those will be
posted tomorrow after Tony and I setup the CIVS system.

Thank you,
Tristan


[0]:
https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/PTL_Elections_September_2015#Confirmed_Candidates

[1]:
http://governance.openstack.org/resolutions/20141128-elections-process-for-leaderless-programs.html





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Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2015-09-17 Thread Clark, Robert Graham
Likewise, I'm not sure I missed the candidacy window, I think our late 
mid-cycle threw things out of whack slightly.

When I saw the Magnum nomination I made a mental note to apply today. This is a 
poor-show on my part and I apologise to the TC, the community and the Security 
team for this apparent lack of awareness. 

Five projects without candidates seems like a lot, especially as several of 
them are very active. I think perhaps this is a busy time of year and like me a 
number of people were not paying close enough attention to the election window.

I understand that the official window for nominations has now closed, I'd like 
to understand more about how the process detailed in [1] below will operate, 
many of these projects have established PTLs (like me) who are obviously not 
great at tracking dates (like me) but still very much want to continue to lead 
in their communities (like me). I'd like to better understand what happens next.

-Rob



> -Original Message-
> From: Douglas Mendizábal [mailto:douglas.mendiza...@rackspace.com]
> Sent: 17 September 2015 14:56
> To: openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org
> Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now 
> over
> 
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA512
> 
> This is quite unfortunate, as I was intending to submit my candidacy
> for the Barbican project today, but I did not realize the cutoff time
> would be in the morning in CDT.
> 
> I'd like to apologize to the OpenStack community and the Barbican team
> in particular for missing this deadline.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Douglas Mendizábal
> 
> On 9/17/15 8:49 AM, Flavio Percoco wrote:
> > On 17/09/15 13:44 +, Tristan Cacqueray wrote:
> >> On 09/17/2015 01:32 PM, Flavio Percoco wrote:
> >>> On 17/09/15 13:25 +, Tristan Cacqueray wrote:
> >>>> PTL Nomination is now over. The official candidate list is
> >>>> available on the wiki[0].
> >>>>
> >>>> There are 5 projects without candidates, so according to
> >>>> this resolution[1], the TC we'll have to appoint a new PTL
> >>>> for Barbican, MagnetoDB, Magnum, Murano and Security
> >>>
> >>> Magnum had a candidacy on the mailing list. I'd assume this is
> >>> because it wasn't proposed to openstack/election. Right?
> >>
> >> That is correct, but the candidacy was submitted after the
> >> deadlines so we can't validate this candidate.
> >
> > Awesome, thanks for the confirmation. Flavio
> >
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for the hard work here, Flavio
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> There are 7 projects that will have an election: Cinder,
> >>>> Glance, Ironic, Keystone, Mistral, Neutron and Oslo. The
> >>>> details for those will be posted tomorrow after Tony and I
> >>>> setup the CIVS system.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thank you, Tristan
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> [0]:
> >>>> https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/PTL_Elections_September_2015#Confir
> med_Candidates
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> [1]:
> >>>> http://governance.openstack.org/resolutions/20141128-elections-proc
> ess-for-leaderless-programs.html
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> 
> __
> >>>>
> >>>>
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> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
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Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2015-09-17 Thread Kyle Mestery
On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 10:26 AM, Monty Taylor  wrote:

> On 09/17/2015 04:50 PM, Anita Kuno wrote:
>
>> On 09/17/2015 08:22 AM, Matt Riedemann wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 9/17/2015 8:25 AM, Tristan Cacqueray wrote:
>>>
 PTL Nomination is now over. The official candidate list is available on
 the wiki[0].

 There are 5 projects without candidates, so according to this
 resolution[1], the TC we'll have to appoint a new PTL for Barbican,
 MagnetoDB, Magnum, Murano and Security

>>>
>>> This is devil's advocate, but why does a project technically need a PTL?
>>>   Just so that there can be a contact point for cross-project things,
>>> i.e. a lightning rod?  There are projects that do a lot of group
>>> leadership/delegation/etc, so it doesn't seem that a PTL is technically
>>> required in all cases.
>>>
>>
>> I think that is a great question for the TC to consider when they
>> evaluate options for action with these projects.
>>
>> The election officials are fulfilling their obligation according to the
>> resolution:
>>
>> http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/governance/tree/resolutions/20141128-elections-process-for-leaderless-programs.rst
>>
>> If you read the verb there the verb is "can" not "must", I choose the
>> verb "can" on purpose for the resolution when I wrote it. The TC has the
>> option to select an appointee. The TC can do other things as well,
>> should the TC choose.
>>
>
> I agree- and this is a great example of places where human judgement is
> better than rules.
>
> For instance - one of the projects had a nominee but it missed the
> deadline, so that's probably an easy on.
>
> For one of the projects it had been looking dead for a while, so this is
> the final nail in the coffin from my POV
>
> For the other three - I know they're still active projects with people
> interested in them, so sorting them out will be fun!
>
>
This is the right approach. Human judgement #ftw! :)


>
>
>>
>>>
 There are 7 projects that will have an election: Cinder, Glance, Ironic,
 Keystone, Mistral, Neutron and Oslo. The details for those will be
 posted tomorrow after Tony and I setup the CIVS system.

 Thank you,
 Tristan


 [0]:

 https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/PTL_Elections_September_2015#Confirmed_Candidates

 [1]:

 http://governance.openstack.org/resolutions/20141128-elections-process-for-leaderless-programs.html






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>>>
>>
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Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2015-09-17 Thread Tristan Cacqueray
On 09/17/2015 03:05 PM, Douglas Mendizábal wrote:
> I think someone jumped the gun on this thread.  According to the wiki
> [1] the cutoff time is not until 5:59 UTC, which
> doesn't happen for another few hours. [2]
> 
> Am I missing something?
> 
> [1] https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/PTL_Elections_September_2015
> [2] http://time.is/UTC
> 
> Douglas Mendizábal
> 


Hi Douglas,

UTC time is now:  "Thu Sep 17 15:16:46 UTC 2015".
The deadline was: "Thu Sep 17 05:59:00 UTC 2015"

You can check UTC time using this command line "TZ=UTC date".

Regards,
Tristan



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Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2015-09-17 Thread Tony Breeds
On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 10:05:20AM -0500, Douglas Mendizábal wrote:
 
> I think someone jumped the gun on this thread.  According to the wiki
> [1] the cutoff time is not until 5:59 UTC, which
> doesn't happen for another few hours. [2]
> 
> Am I missing something?

From the wiki[0]:
---
Timeline
September 11 - September 17, 05:59 UTC: Open candidacy for PTL positions
September 18 - September 24: PTL elections
---

The time in UTC is: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/timezone/utc
which, at the time of this writing, is: Sept 17th 15:20ish

So the nomination period closed nearly 10 hours ago.

The time-frame to be eligible to vote in the election closes at 5:59am on Sept
18th (UTC)

I hope that clarifies.

Yours Tony.
[0] https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/PTL_Elections_September_2015#Timeline


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Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2015-09-17 Thread Edgar Magana
Folks,

Last year I found myself in the same position when I missed a deadline because 
my wrong planning and time zones nightmare!
However, the rules were very clear and I assumed my mistake. So, we should 
assume that we do not have candidates and follow the already described process. 
However, this should be very easy to figure out for the TC, it is just a matter 
to find our who is interested in the PTL role and consulting with the core team 
of that specific project.

Just my two cents…

Edgar

From: Kyle Mestery
Reply-To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)"
Date: Thursday, September 17, 2015 at 8:48 AM
To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)"
Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 10:26 AM, Monty Taylor 
<mord...@inaugust.com<mailto:mord...@inaugust.com>> wrote:
On 09/17/2015 04:50 PM, Anita Kuno wrote:
On 09/17/2015 08:22 AM, Matt Riedemann wrote:


On 9/17/2015 8:25 AM, Tristan Cacqueray wrote:
PTL Nomination is now over. The official candidate list is available on
the wiki[0].

There are 5 projects without candidates, so according to this
resolution[1], the TC we'll have to appoint a new PTL for Barbican,
MagnetoDB, Magnum, Murano and Security

This is devil's advocate, but why does a project technically need a PTL?
  Just so that there can be a contact point for cross-project things,
i.e. a lightning rod?  There are projects that do a lot of group
leadership/delegation/etc, so it doesn't seem that a PTL is technically
required in all cases.

I think that is a great question for the TC to consider when they
evaluate options for action with these projects.

The election officials are fulfilling their obligation according to the
resolution:
http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/governance/tree/resolutions/20141128-elections-process-for-leaderless-programs.rst

If you read the verb there the verb is "can" not "must", I choose the
verb "can" on purpose for the resolution when I wrote it. The TC has the
option to select an appointee. The TC can do other things as well,
should the TC choose.

I agree- and this is a great example of places where human judgement is better 
than rules.

For instance - one of the projects had a nominee but it missed the deadline, so 
that's probably an easy on.

For one of the projects it had been looking dead for a while, so this is the 
final nail in the coffin from my POV

For the other three - I know they're still active projects with people 
interested in them, so sorting them out will be fun!


This is the right approach. Human judgement #ftw! :)





There are 7 projects that will have an election: Cinder, Glance, Ironic,
Keystone, Mistral, Neutron and Oslo. The details for those will be
posted tomorrow after Tony and I setup the CIVS system.

Thank you,
Tristan


[0]:
https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/PTL_Elections_September_2015#Confirmed_Candidates

[1]:
http://governance.openstack.org/resolutions/20141128-elections-process-for-leaderless-programs.html





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[openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2015-09-17 Thread Tristan Cacqueray
PTL Nomination is now over. The official candidate list is available on
the wiki[0].

There are 5 projects without candidates, so according to this
resolution[1], the TC we'll have to appoint a new PTL for Barbican,
MagnetoDB, Magnum, Murano and Security

There are 7 projects that will have an election: Cinder, Glance, Ironic,
Keystone, Mistral, Neutron and Oslo. The details for those will be
posted tomorrow after Tony and I setup the CIVS system.

Thank you,
Tristan


[0]:
https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/PTL_Elections_September_2015#Confirmed_Candidates
[1]:
http://governance.openstack.org/resolutions/20141128-elections-process-for-leaderless-programs.html




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Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2015-09-17 Thread Flavio Percoco

On 17/09/15 13:25 +, Tristan Cacqueray wrote:

PTL Nomination is now over. The official candidate list is available on
the wiki[0].

There are 5 projects without candidates, so according to this
resolution[1], the TC we'll have to appoint a new PTL for Barbican,
MagnetoDB, Magnum, Murano and Security


Magnum had a candidacy on the mailing list. I'd assume this is because
it wasn't proposed to openstack/election. Right?

Thanks for the hard work here,
Flavio



There are 7 projects that will have an election: Cinder, Glance, Ironic,
Keystone, Mistral, Neutron and Oslo. The details for those will be
posted tomorrow after Tony and I setup the CIVS system.

Thank you,
Tristan


[0]:
https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/PTL_Elections_September_2015#Confirmed_Candidates
[1]:
http://governance.openstack.org/resolutions/20141128-elections-process-for-leaderless-programs.html







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--
@flaper87
Flavio Percoco


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Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2015-09-17 Thread Douglas Mendizábal
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

I think someone jumped the gun on this thread.  According to the wiki
[1] the cutoff time is not until 5:59 UTC, which
doesn't happen for another few hours. [2]

Am I missing something?

[1] https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/PTL_Elections_September_2015
[2] http://time.is/UTC

Douglas Mendizábal

On 9/17/15 9:50 AM, Anita Kuno wrote:
> On 09/17/2015 08:22 AM, Matt Riedemann wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> On 9/17/2015 8:25 AM, Tristan Cacqueray wrote:
>>> PTL Nomination is now over. The official candidate list is 
>>> available on the wiki[0].
>>> 
>>> There are 5 projects without candidates, so according to this 
>>> resolution[1], the TC we'll have to appoint a new PTL for 
>>> Barbican, MagnetoDB, Magnum, Murano and Security
>> 
>> This is devil's advocate, but why does a project technically
>> need a PTL? Just so that there can be a contact point for 
>> cross-project things, i.e. a lightning rod?  There are projects 
>> that do a lot of group leadership/delegation/etc, so it doesn't 
>> seem that a PTL is technically required in all cases.
> 
> I think that is a great question for the TC to consider when they 
> evaluate options for action with these projects.
> 
> The election officials are fulfilling their obligation according
> to the resolution: 
> http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/governance/tree/resolutions/20
141128-elections-process-for-leaderless-programs.rst
>
>
> 
If you read the verb there the verb is "can" not "must", I choose
> the verb "can" on purpose for the resolution when I wrote it. The 
> TC has the option to select an appointee. The TC can do other 
> things as well, should the TC choose.
> 
> Thanks, Anita.
> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> There are 7 projects that will have an election: Cinder, 
>>> Glance, Ironic, Keystone, Mistral, Neutron and Oslo. The 
>>> details for those will be posted tomorrow after Tony and I 
>>> setup the CIVS system.
>>> 
>>> Thank you, Tristan
>>> 
>>> 
>>> [0]: 
>>> https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/PTL_Elections_September_2015#Confirm
ed_Candidates
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
[1]:
>>> http://governance.openstack.org/resolutions/20141128-elections-proce
ss-for-leaderless-programs.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 

__
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Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2015-09-17 Thread Jeremy Stanley
On 2015-09-17 10:05:20 -0500 (-0500), Douglas Mendizábal wrote:
> I think someone jumped the gun on this thread.  According to the wiki
> [1] the cutoff time is not until 5:59 UTC, which
> doesn't happen for another few hours. [2]

Per that page the deadline for nominations is September 17, 05:59
UTC which was over 9 hours ago now. The deadline for contributions
to count toward being part of the electorate is September 18, 2015
05:59 UTC (a little less than 15 hours from now).
-- 
Jeremy Stanley

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Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2015-09-17 Thread Flavio Percoco

On 17/09/15 13:44 +, Tristan Cacqueray wrote:

On 09/17/2015 01:32 PM, Flavio Percoco wrote:

On 17/09/15 13:25 +, Tristan Cacqueray wrote:

PTL Nomination is now over. The official candidate list is available on
the wiki[0].

There are 5 projects without candidates, so according to this
resolution[1], the TC we'll have to appoint a new PTL for Barbican,
MagnetoDB, Magnum, Murano and Security


Magnum had a candidacy on the mailing list. I'd assume this is because
it wasn't proposed to openstack/election. Right?


That is correct, but the candidacy was submitted after the deadlines so
we can't validate this candidate.


Awesome, thanks for the confirmation.
Flavio





Thanks for the hard work here,
Flavio



There are 7 projects that will have an election: Cinder, Glance, Ironic,
Keystone, Mistral, Neutron and Oslo. The details for those will be
posted tomorrow after Tony and I setup the CIVS system.

Thank you,
Tristan


[0]:
https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/PTL_Elections_September_2015#Confirmed_Candidates

[1]:
http://governance.openstack.org/resolutions/20141128-elections-process-for-leaderless-programs.html








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--
@flaper87
Flavio Percoco


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Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2015-09-17 Thread Douglas Mendizábal
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

This is quite unfortunate, as I was intending to submit my candidacy
for the Barbican project today, but I did not realize the cutoff time
would be in the morning in CDT.

I'd like to apologize to the OpenStack community and the Barbican team
in particular for missing this deadline.

Thanks,

Douglas Mendizábal

On 9/17/15 8:49 AM, Flavio Percoco wrote:
> On 17/09/15 13:44 +, Tristan Cacqueray wrote:
>> On 09/17/2015 01:32 PM, Flavio Percoco wrote:
>>> On 17/09/15 13:25 +, Tristan Cacqueray wrote:
 PTL Nomination is now over. The official candidate list is
 available on the wiki[0].
 
 There are 5 projects without candidates, so according to
 this resolution[1], the TC we'll have to appoint a new PTL
 for Barbican, MagnetoDB, Magnum, Murano and Security
>>> 
>>> Magnum had a candidacy on the mailing list. I'd assume this is
>>> because it wasn't proposed to openstack/election. Right?
>> 
>> That is correct, but the candidacy was submitted after the
>> deadlines so we can't validate this candidate.
> 
> Awesome, thanks for the confirmation. Flavio
> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> Thanks for the hard work here, Flavio
>>> 
 
 There are 7 projects that will have an election: Cinder,
 Glance, Ironic, Keystone, Mistral, Neutron and Oslo. The
 details for those will be posted tomorrow after Tony and I
 setup the CIVS system.
 
 Thank you, Tristan
 
 
 [0]: 
 https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/PTL_Elections_September_2015#Confir
med_Candidates



 
[1]:
 http://governance.openstack.org/resolutions/20141128-elections-proc
ess-for-leaderless-programs.html




>>>
>>>
>>>

 

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Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2015-09-17 Thread Anita Kuno
On 09/17/2015 08:22 AM, Matt Riedemann wrote:
> 
> 
> On 9/17/2015 8:25 AM, Tristan Cacqueray wrote:
>> PTL Nomination is now over. The official candidate list is available on
>> the wiki[0].
>>
>> There are 5 projects without candidates, so according to this
>> resolution[1], the TC we'll have to appoint a new PTL for Barbican,
>> MagnetoDB, Magnum, Murano and Security
> 
> This is devil's advocate, but why does a project technically need a PTL?
>  Just so that there can be a contact point for cross-project things,
> i.e. a lightning rod?  There are projects that do a lot of group
> leadership/delegation/etc, so it doesn't seem that a PTL is technically
> required in all cases.

I think that is a great question for the TC to consider when they
evaluate options for action with these projects.

The election officials are fulfilling their obligation according to the
resolution:
http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/governance/tree/resolutions/20141128-elections-process-for-leaderless-programs.rst

If you read the verb there the verb is "can" not "must", I choose the
verb "can" on purpose for the resolution when I wrote it. The TC has the
option to select an appointee. The TC can do other things as well,
should the TC choose.

Thanks,
Anita.

> 
>>
>> There are 7 projects that will have an election: Cinder, Glance, Ironic,
>> Keystone, Mistral, Neutron and Oslo. The details for those will be
>> posted tomorrow after Tony and I setup the CIVS system.
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Tristan
>>
>>
>> [0]:
>> https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/PTL_Elections_September_2015#Confirmed_Candidates
>>
>> [1]:
>> http://governance.openstack.org/resolutions/20141128-elections-process-for-leaderless-programs.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> __
>>
>> OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
>> Unsubscribe:
>> openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe
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Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2015-09-17 Thread Tristan Cacqueray
On 09/17/2015 01:32 PM, Flavio Percoco wrote:
> On 17/09/15 13:25 +, Tristan Cacqueray wrote:
>> PTL Nomination is now over. The official candidate list is available on
>> the wiki[0].
>>
>> There are 5 projects without candidates, so according to this
>> resolution[1], the TC we'll have to appoint a new PTL for Barbican,
>> MagnetoDB, Magnum, Murano and Security
> 
> Magnum had a candidacy on the mailing list. I'd assume this is because
> it wasn't proposed to openstack/election. Right?

That is correct, but the candidacy was submitted after the deadlines so
we can't validate this candidate.

> 
> Thanks for the hard work here,
> Flavio
> 
>>
>> There are 7 projects that will have an election: Cinder, Glance, Ironic,
>> Keystone, Mistral, Neutron and Oslo. The details for those will be
>> posted tomorrow after Tony and I setup the CIVS system.
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Tristan
>>
>>
>> [0]:
>> https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/PTL_Elections_September_2015#Confirmed_Candidates
>>
>> [1]:
>> http://governance.openstack.org/resolutions/20141128-elections-process-for-leaderless-programs.html
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 
> 
>> __
>>
>> OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
>> Unsubscribe:
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Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2015-09-17 Thread Kevin Benton
Maybe it would be a good idea to switch to 23:59 AOE deadlines like many
paper submissions use for academic conferences. That way there is never a
need to convert TZs, you just get it in by the end of the day in your own
time zone.
On Sep 17, 2015 9:18 AM, "Edgar Magana" <edgar.mag...@workday.com> wrote:

> Folks,
>
> Last year I found myself in the same position when I missed a deadline
> because my wrong planning and time zones nightmare!
> However, the rules were very clear and I assumed my mistake. So, we should
> assume that we do not have candidates and follow the already described
> process. However, this should be very easy to figure out for the TC, it is
> just a matter to find our who is interested in the PTL role and consulting
> with the core team of that specific project.
>
> Just my two cents…
>
> Edgar
>
> From: Kyle Mestery
> Reply-To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)"
> Date: Thursday, September 17, 2015 at 8:48 AM
> To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)"
> Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is
> now over
>
> On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 10:26 AM, Monty Taylor <mord...@inaugust.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 09/17/2015 04:50 PM, Anita Kuno wrote:
>>
>>> On 09/17/2015 08:22 AM, Matt Riedemann wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 9/17/2015 8:25 AM, Tristan Cacqueray wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> PTL Nomination is now over. The official candidate list is available on
>>>>> the wiki[0].
>>>>>
>>>>> There are 5 projects without candidates, so according to this
>>>>> resolution[1], the TC we'll have to appoint a new PTL for Barbican,
>>>>> MagnetoDB, Magnum, Murano and Security
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This is devil's advocate, but why does a project technically need a PTL?
>>>>   Just so that there can be a contact point for cross-project things,
>>>> i.e. a lightning rod?  There are projects that do a lot of group
>>>> leadership/delegation/etc, so it doesn't seem that a PTL is technically
>>>> required in all cases.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I think that is a great question for the TC to consider when they
>>> evaluate options for action with these projects.
>>>
>>> The election officials are fulfilling their obligation according to the
>>> resolution:
>>>
>>> http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/governance/tree/resolutions/20141128-elections-process-for-leaderless-programs.rst
>>>
>>> If you read the verb there the verb is "can" not "must", I choose the
>>> verb "can" on purpose for the resolution when I wrote it. The TC has the
>>> option to select an appointee. The TC can do other things as well,
>>> should the TC choose.
>>>
>>
>> I agree- and this is a great example of places where human judgement is
>> better than rules.
>>
>> For instance - one of the projects had a nominee but it missed the
>> deadline, so that's probably an easy on.
>>
>> For one of the projects it had been looking dead for a while, so this is
>> the final nail in the coffin from my POV
>>
>> For the other three - I know they're still active projects with people
>> interested in them, so sorting them out will be fun!
>>
>>
> This is the right approach. Human judgement #ftw! :)
>
>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> There are 7 projects that will have an election: Cinder, Glance,
>>>>> Ironic,
>>>>> Keystone, Mistral, Neutron and Oslo. The details for those will be
>>>>> posted tomorrow after Tony and I setup the CIVS system.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>> Tristan
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [0]:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/PTL_Elections_September_2015#Confirmed_Candidates
>>>>>
>>>>> [1]:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://governance.openstack.org/resolutions/20141128-elections-process-for-leaderless-programs.html
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> __
>>>>>
>>>>> OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
>>>>> Unsubscribe:
>

Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2015-09-17 Thread Neil Jerram
But on the Internet, no one knows that I'm really a crocodile, and
writing from Midway...

Neil


On 17/09/15 18:29, Kevin Benton wrote:
>
> Maybe it would be a good idea to switch to 23:59 AOE deadlines like
> many paper submissions use for academic conferences. That way there is
> never a need to convert TZs, you just get it in by the end of the day
> in your own time zone.
>
> On Sep 17, 2015 9:18 AM, "Edgar Magana" <edgar.mag...@workday.com
> <mailto:edgar.mag...@workday.com>> wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
> Last year I found myself in the same position when I missed a
> deadline because my wrong planning and time zones nightmare!
> However, the rules were very clear and I assumed my mistake. So,
> we should assume that we do not have candidates and follow the
> already described process. However, this should be very easy to
> figure out for the TC, it is just a matter to find our who is
> interested in the PTL role and consulting with the core team of
> that specific project.
>
> Just my two cents… 
>
> Edgar
>
> From: Kyle Mestery
> Reply-To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage
> questions)"
> Date: Thursday, September 17, 2015 at 8:48 AM
>     To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)"
> Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination
> period is now over
>
> On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 10:26 AM, Monty Taylor
> <mord...@inaugust.com <mailto:mord...@inaugust.com>> wrote:
>
> On 09/17/2015 04:50 PM, Anita Kuno wrote:
>
> On 09/17/2015 08:22 AM, Matt Riedemann wrote:
>
>
>
> On 9/17/2015 8:25 AM, Tristan Cacqueray wrote:
>
> PTL Nomination is now over. The official candidate
> list is available on
> the wiki[0].
>
> There are 5 projects without candidates, so
> according to this
> resolution[1], the TC we'll have to appoint a new
> PTL for Barbican,
> MagnetoDB, Magnum, Murano and Security
>
>
> This is devil's advocate, but why does a project
> technically need a PTL?
>   Just so that there can be a contact point for
> cross-project things,
> i.e. a lightning rod?  There are projects that do a
> lot of group
> leadership/delegation/etc, so it doesn't seem that a
> PTL is technically
> required in all cases.
>
>
> I think that is a great question for the TC to consider
> when they
> evaluate options for action with these projects.
>
> The election officials are fulfilling their obligation
> according to the
> resolution:
> 
> http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/governance/tree/resolutions/20141128-elections-process-for-leaderless-programs.rst
>
> If you read the verb there the verb is "can" not "must", I
> choose the
> verb "can" on purpose for the resolution when I wrote it.
> The TC has the
> option to select an appointee. The TC can do other things
> as well,
> should the TC choose.
>
>
> I agree- and this is a great example of places where human
> judgement is better than rules.
>
> For instance - one of the projects had a nominee but it missed
> the deadline, so that's probably an easy on.
>
> For one of the projects it had been looking dead for a while,
> so this is the final nail in the coffin from my POV
>
> For the other three - I know they're still active projects
> with people interested in them, so sorting them out will be fun!
>
>
> This is the right approach. Human judgement #ftw! :)
>  
>
>
>
>
>
> There are 7 projects that will have an election:
> Cinder, Glance, Ironic,
> Keystone, Mistral, Neutron and Oslo. The details
> for those will be
> posted tomorrow after Tony and I setup the CIVS
> system.
>
> Thank you,
> Tristan
>
>
> [0]:
> 
> https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/PTL_Elections_September_2015#Confirmed_Candidates
>
> [1]:

Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2015-09-17 Thread Brian Curtin
Because it's still day_n AOE in early hours of day_n+1 local-time in a
lot of places. I think I have until 6 AM the day after an AOE deadline
where it's still considered the deadline date anywhere on earth, as
there are still places on earth where the date hasn't flipped.

Your EOD is not the deadline, as it's really only a reference to how
many more hours you have until it's no longer that date anywhere on
earth. People screw themselves out of things by using their EOD as the
definition.

(we've been using this with the PyCon CFP since forever)

On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 1:17 PM, Kevin Benton  wrote:
> How is it not what I described? Time zones become irrelevant if you get it
> in by the end of the day in your local time zone.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anywhere_on_Earth
>
> On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 10:30 AM, Brian Curtin  wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 12:26 PM, Kevin Benton  wrote:
>> > Maybe it would be a good idea to switch to 23:59 AOE deadlines like many
>> > paper submissions use for academic conferences. That way there is never
>> > a
>> > need to convert TZs, you just get it in by the end of the day in your
>> > own
>> > time zone.
>>
>> This is somehow going to cause even more confusion because you'll have
>> to explain AOE (which is not what you described).
>>
>> __
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>
>
>
> --
> Kevin Benton
>
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Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2015-09-17 Thread Kevin Benton
Midway is still on earth. :)

On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 10:35 AM, Neil Jerram <neil.jer...@metaswitch.com>
wrote:

> But on the Internet, no one knows that I'm really a crocodile, and
> writing from Midway...
>
> Neil
>
>
> On 17/09/15 18:29, Kevin Benton wrote:
> >
> > Maybe it would be a good idea to switch to 23:59 AOE deadlines like
> > many paper submissions use for academic conferences. That way there is
> > never a need to convert TZs, you just get it in by the end of the day
> > in your own time zone.
> >
> > On Sep 17, 2015 9:18 AM, "Edgar Magana" <edgar.mag...@workday.com
> > <mailto:edgar.mag...@workday.com>> wrote:
> >
> > Folks,
> >
> > Last year I found myself in the same position when I missed a
> > deadline because my wrong planning and time zones nightmare!
> > However, the rules were very clear and I assumed my mistake. So,
> > we should assume that we do not have candidates and follow the
> > already described process. However, this should be very easy to
> > figure out for the TC, it is just a matter to find our who is
> > interested in the PTL role and consulting with the core team of
> > that specific project.
> >
> > Just my two cents…
> >
> > Edgar
> >
> > From: Kyle Mestery
> > Reply-To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage
> > questions)"
> > Date: Thursday, September 17, 2015 at 8:48 AM
> > To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)"
> > Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination
> > period is now over
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 10:26 AM, Monty Taylor
> > <mord...@inaugust.com <mailto:mord...@inaugust.com>> wrote:
> >
> > On 09/17/2015 04:50 PM, Anita Kuno wrote:
> >
> > On 09/17/2015 08:22 AM, Matt Riedemann wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On 9/17/2015 8:25 AM, Tristan Cacqueray wrote:
> >
> > PTL Nomination is now over. The official candidate
> > list is available on
> > the wiki[0].
> >
> > There are 5 projects without candidates, so
> > according to this
> > resolution[1], the TC we'll have to appoint a new
> > PTL for Barbican,
> > MagnetoDB, Magnum, Murano and Security
> >
> >
> > This is devil's advocate, but why does a project
> > technically need a PTL?
> >   Just so that there can be a contact point for
> > cross-project things,
> > i.e. a lightning rod?  There are projects that do a
> > lot of group
> > leadership/delegation/etc, so it doesn't seem that a
> > PTL is technically
> > required in all cases.
> >
> >
> > I think that is a great question for the TC to consider
> > when they
> > evaluate options for action with these projects.
> >
> > The election officials are fulfilling their obligation
> > according to the
> > resolution:
> >
> http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/governance/tree/resolutions/20141128-elections-process-for-leaderless-programs.rst
> >
> > If you read the verb there the verb is "can" not "must", I
> > choose the
> > verb "can" on purpose for the resolution when I wrote it.
> > The TC has the
> > option to select an appointee. The TC can do other things
> > as well,
> > should the TC choose.
> >
> >
> > I agree- and this is a great example of places where human
> > judgement is better than rules.
> >
> > For instance - one of the projects had a nominee but it missed
> > the deadline, so that's probably an easy on.
> >
> > For one of the projects it had been looking dead for a while,
> > so this is the final nail in the coffin from my POV
> >
> > For the other three - I know they're still active projects
> > with people interested in them, so sorting them out will be fun!
> >
> >
> > This is the right approach. Human judgement #ftw! :)
&g

Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2015-09-17 Thread Kevin Benton
How is it not what I described? Time zones become irrelevant if you get it
in by the end of the day in your local time zone.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anywhere_on_Earth

On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 10:30 AM, Brian Curtin  wrote:

> On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 12:26 PM, Kevin Benton  wrote:
> > Maybe it would be a good idea to switch to 23:59 AOE deadlines like many
> > paper submissions use for academic conferences. That way there is never a
> > need to convert TZs, you just get it in by the end of the day in your own
> > time zone.
>
> This is somehow going to cause even more confusion because you'll have
> to explain AOE (which is not what you described).
>
> __
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-- 
Kevin Benton
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Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2015-09-17 Thread Brian Curtin
On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 12:26 PM, Kevin Benton  wrote:
> Maybe it would be a good idea to switch to 23:59 AOE deadlines like many
> paper submissions use for academic conferences. That way there is never a
> need to convert TZs, you just get it in by the end of the day in your own
> time zone.

This is somehow going to cause even more confusion because you'll have
to explain AOE (which is not what you described).

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Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2015-09-17 Thread Sylvain Bauza



Le 17/09/2015 19:26, Kevin Benton a écrit :


Maybe it would be a good idea to switch to 23:59 AOE deadlines like 
many paper submissions use for academic conferences. That way there is 
never a need to convert TZs, you just get it in by the end of the day 
in your own time zone.





IMHO, the current process leaves enough time for proposing a candidacy, 
given that it's first advertised by beginning of the cycle on the main 
Release schedule wiki page (eg. for Liberty [1]) and then officially 
announced 8 days before the deadline. We also know that PTL elections 
come around 6 weeks before the Summit every cycle. One last official 
annoucement is made 1 day before the deadline.


Trying to target the very last moment for providing a candidacy just 
seems risky to me in that condition and we should really propose to the 
candidates to not wait for the last minute and propose far eariler.


-Sylvain


[1] 
https://wiki.openstack.org/w/index.php?title=Liberty_Release_Schedule=78501


On Sep 17, 2015 9:18 AM, "Edgar Magana" <edgar.mag...@workday.com 
<mailto:edgar.mag...@workday.com>> wrote:


Folks,

Last year I found myself in the same position when I missed a
deadline because my wrong planning and time zones nightmare!
However, the rules were very clear and I assumed my mistake. So,
we should assume that we do not have candidates and follow the
already described process. However, this should be very easy to
figure out for the TC, it is just a matter to find our who is
interested in the PTL role and consulting with the core team of
that specific project.

Just my two cents…

Edgar

From: Kyle Mestery
Reply-To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage
questions)"
Date: Thursday, September 17, 2015 at 8:48 AM
To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)"
Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination
period is now over

On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 10:26 AM, Monty Taylor
<mord...@inaugust.com <mailto:mord...@inaugust.com>> wrote:

On 09/17/2015 04:50 PM, Anita Kuno wrote:

On 09/17/2015 08:22 AM, Matt Riedemann wrote:



On 9/17/2015 8:25 AM, Tristan Cacqueray wrote:

PTL Nomination is now over. The official candidate
list is available on
the wiki[0].

There are 5 projects without candidates, so
according to this
resolution[1], the TC we'll have to appoint a new
PTL for Barbican,
MagnetoDB, Magnum, Murano and Security


This is devil's advocate, but why does a project
technically need a PTL?
  Just so that there can be a contact point for
cross-project things,
i.e. a lightning rod?  There are projects that do a
lot of group
leadership/delegation/etc, so it doesn't seem that a
PTL is technically
required in all cases.


I think that is a great question for the TC to consider
when they
evaluate options for action with these projects.

The election officials are fulfilling their obligation
according to the
resolution:

http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/governance/tree/resolutions/20141128-elections-process-for-leaderless-programs.rst

If you read the verb there the verb is "can" not "must", I
choose the
verb "can" on purpose for the resolution when I wrote it.
The TC has the
option to select an appointee. The TC can do other things
as well,
should the TC choose.


I agree- and this is a great example of places where human
judgement is better than rules.

For instance - one of the projects had a nominee but it missed
the deadline, so that's probably an easy on.

For one of the projects it had been looking dead for a while,
so this is the final nail in the coffin from my POV

For the other three - I know they're still active projects
with people interested in them, so sorting them out will be fun!


This is the right approach. Human judgement #ftw! :)





There are 7 projects that will have an election:
Cinder, Glance, Ironic,
Keystone, Mistral, Neutron and Oslo. The details
for those will be
posted tomorrow after Tony and I setup the CIVS
system.

Thank you,
Tristan


[0]:

https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/PTL_Elections_Sep

Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2015-09-17 Thread Kevin Benton
It guarantees that if you hit the date deadline local time, that you won't
miss the deadline. It doesn't matter if there are extra hours afterwards.
The idea is that it gets rid of the need to do time zone conversions.

If we are trying to do some weird optimization where everyone wants to
submit in the last 60 seconds, then sure AOE isn't great for that because
you still have to convert. It doesn't seem to me like that's what we are
trying to do though.
On Sep 17, 2015 11:36 AM, "Brian Curtin"  wrote:

> Because it's still day_n AOE in early hours of day_n+1 local-time in a
> lot of places. I think I have until 6 AM the day after an AOE deadline
> where it's still considered the deadline date anywhere on earth, as
> there are still places on earth where the date hasn't flipped.
>
> Your EOD is not the deadline, as it's really only a reference to how
> many more hours you have until it's no longer that date anywhere on
> earth. People screw themselves out of things by using their EOD as the
> definition.
>
> (we've been using this with the PyCon CFP since forever)
>
> On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 1:17 PM, Kevin Benton  wrote:
> > How is it not what I described? Time zones become irrelevant if you get
> it
> > in by the end of the day in your local time zone.
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anywhere_on_Earth
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 10:30 AM, Brian Curtin  wrote:
> >>
> >> On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 12:26 PM, Kevin Benton 
> wrote:
> >> > Maybe it would be a good idea to switch to 23:59 AOE deadlines like
> many
> >> > paper submissions use for academic conferences. That way there is
> never
> >> > a
> >> > need to convert TZs, you just get it in by the end of the day in your
> >> > own
> >> > time zone.
> >>
> >> This is somehow going to cause even more confusion because you'll have
> >> to explain AOE (which is not what you described).
> >>
> >>
> __
> >> OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
> >> Unsubscribe:
> openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe
> >> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Kevin Benton
> >
> >
> __
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> >
>
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Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2015-09-17 Thread Matt Riedemann



On 9/17/2015 1:43 PM, Sylvain Bauza wrote:



Le 17/09/2015 19:26, Kevin Benton a écrit :


Maybe it would be a good idea to switch to 23:59 AOE deadlines like
many paper submissions use for academic conferences. That way there is
never a need to convert TZs, you just get it in by the end of the day
in your own time zone.




IMHO, the current process leaves enough time for proposing a candidacy,
given that it's first advertised by beginning of the cycle on the main
Release schedule wiki page (eg. for Liberty [1]) and then officially
announced 8 days before the deadline. We also know that PTL elections
come around 6 weeks before the Summit every cycle. One last official
annoucement is made 1 day before the deadline.

Trying to target the very last moment for providing a candidacy just
seems risky to me in that condition and we should really propose to the
candidates to not wait for the last minute and propose far eariler.


Heh, yeah, +1. If running for PTL is something you had in mind to begin 
with, you should probably be looking forward to when the elections start 
and get your ducks in a row.  Part of being PTL, a large part I'd think, 
is the ability to organize and manage things. If you're waiting until 
the 11th hour to do this, I wouldn't have much sympathy.




-Sylvain


[1]
https://wiki.openstack.org/w/index.php?title=Liberty_Release_Schedule=78501


On Sep 17, 2015 9:18 AM, "Edgar Magana" <edgar.mag...@workday.com
<mailto:edgar.mag...@workday.com>> wrote:

Folks,

Last year I found myself in the same position when I missed a
deadline because my wrong planning and time zones nightmare!
However, the rules were very clear and I assumed my mistake. So,
we should assume that we do not have candidates and follow the
already described process. However, this should be very easy to
figure out for the TC, it is just a matter to find our who is
interested in the PTL role and consulting with the core team of
that specific project.

Just my two cents…

Edgar

From: Kyle Mestery
Reply-To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage
questions)"
Date: Thursday, September 17, 2015 at 8:48 AM
To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)"
Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination
period is now over

On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 10:26 AM, Monty Taylor
<mord...@inaugust.com <mailto:mord...@inaugust.com>> wrote:

On 09/17/2015 04:50 PM, Anita Kuno wrote:

On 09/17/2015 08:22 AM, Matt Riedemann wrote:



On 9/17/2015 8:25 AM, Tristan Cacqueray wrote:

PTL Nomination is now over. The official candidate
list is available on
the wiki[0].

There are 5 projects without candidates, so
according to this
resolution[1], the TC we'll have to appoint a new
PTL for Barbican,
MagnetoDB, Magnum, Murano and Security


This is devil's advocate, but why does a project
technically need a PTL?
  Just so that there can be a contact point for
cross-project things,
i.e. a lightning rod?  There are projects that do a
lot of group
leadership/delegation/etc, so it doesn't seem that a
PTL is technically
required in all cases.


I think that is a great question for the TC to consider
when they
evaluate options for action with these projects.

The election officials are fulfilling their obligation
according to the
resolution:

http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/governance/tree/resolutions/20141128-elections-process-for-leaderless-programs.rst

If you read the verb there the verb is "can" not "must", I
choose the
verb "can" on purpose for the resolution when I wrote it.
The TC has the
option to select an appointee. The TC can do other things
as well,
should the TC choose.


I agree- and this is a great example of places where human
judgement is better than rules.

For instance - one of the projects had a nominee but it missed
the deadline, so that's probably an easy on.

For one of the projects it had been looking dead for a while,
so this is the final nail in the coffin from my POV

For the other three - I know they're still active projects
with people interested in them, so sorting them out will be fun!


This is the right approach. Human judgement #ftw! :)





There are 7 projects that will have an election:
Cinder, 

Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2015-09-17 Thread John Griffith
On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 2:23 PM, Kyle Mestery  wrote:

> On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 3:19 PM, Anne Gentle <
> annegen...@justwriteclick.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 3:15 PM, John Griffith 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 2:00 PM, Doug Hellmann 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Excerpts from Morgan Fainberg's message of 2015-09-17 12:51:33 -0700:

 > I think this is all superfluous however and we should simply encourage
 > people to not wait until the last minute. Waiting to see who is
 > running/what the field looks like isn't as important as standing up
 and
 > saying you're interested in running.

 +1

 Doug


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>>>
>>> ​My dog ate my homework...
>>> My car wouldn't start...
>>> I couldn't figure out what UTC time was...
>>>
>>> The guidelines seemed pretty clear:
>>> Any member of an election electorate can propose their candidacy for the
>>> same election until September 17, 05:59 UTC​
>>>
>>> That being said, a big analysis on date/time selection etc doesn't
>>> really seem warranted here or harping on the fact that something 'went
>>> wrong'.  I as a TC member have no problem saying "things happen" and those
>>> that have submitted candidacy albeit late and are unopposed are in.. no
>>> muss no fuss.  I *think* we're all reasonable adults and don't know that
>>> anybody had in mind that the TC would arbitrarily assign somebody that
>>> wasn't even listed as a PTL for one of the mentioned projects.
>>>
>>>
>> It's not so simple for Magnum, with 2 late candidacies. We'll figure it
>> out but yes, we have work to do.
>>
>>
> It could be simple: Let magnum have an election with both candidates. As
> Monty said:
>
​+1

Also, not the second submitter stated they only submitted because they
noticed nobody else was running.  Regardless seems easy enough to deal
with. ​


>
> "... this is a great example of places where human judgement is better
> than rules."
>
> Thanks,
> Kyle
>
>
>> Anne
>>
>>
>> Moving on,
>>> John
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> __
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Anne Gentle
>> Rackspace
>> Principal Engineer
>> www.justwriteclick.com
>>
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Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2015-09-17 Thread Doug Hellmann
Excerpts from Morgan Fainberg's message of 2015-09-17 12:51:33 -0700:

> I think this is all superfluous however and we should simply encourage
> people to not wait until the last minute. Waiting to see who is
> running/what the field looks like isn't as important as standing up and
> saying you're interested in running.

+1

Doug

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Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2015-09-17 Thread John Griffith
On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 2:00 PM, Doug Hellmann 
wrote:

> Excerpts from Morgan Fainberg's message of 2015-09-17 12:51:33 -0700:
>
> > I think this is all superfluous however and we should simply encourage
> > people to not wait until the last minute. Waiting to see who is
> > running/what the field looks like isn't as important as standing up and
> > saying you're interested in running.
>
> +1
>
> Doug
>
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​My dog ate my homework...
My car wouldn't start...
I couldn't figure out what UTC time was...

The guidelines seemed pretty clear:
Any member of an election electorate can propose their candidacy for the
same election until September 17, 05:59 UTC​

That being said, a big analysis on date/time selection etc doesn't really
seem warranted here or harping on the fact that something 'went wrong'.  I
as a TC member have no problem saying "things happen" and those that have
submitted candidacy albeit late and are unopposed are in.. no muss no
fuss.  I *think* we're all reasonable adults and don't know that anybody
had in mind that the TC would arbitrarily assign somebody that wasn't even
listed as a PTL for one of the mentioned projects.

Moving on,
John
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Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2015-09-17 Thread Doug Hellmann
Excerpts from Thierry Carrez's message of 2015-09-17 18:10:26 +0200:
> Monty Taylor wrote:
> > I agree- and this is a great example of places where human judgement is
> > better than rules.
> > 
> > For instance - one of the projects had a nominee but it missed the
> > deadline, so that's probably an easy on.
> > 
> > For one of the projects it had been looking dead for a while, so this is
> > the final nail in the coffin from my POV
> > 
> > For the other three - I know they're still active projects with people
> > interested in them, so sorting them out will be fun!
> 
> Looks like in 4 cases (Magnum, Barbican, Murano, Security) there is
> actually a candidate, they just missed the deadline. So that should be
> an easy discussion at the next TC meeting.
> 
> For the last one, it is not an accident. I think it is indeed the final
> nail on the coffin.
> 

Yes, I was planning to wait until after the summit to propose that we
drop MagnetoDB from the official list of projects due to inactivity. We
can deal with it sooner, obviously.

Doug

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Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2015-09-17 Thread Morgan Fainberg
On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 12:00 PM, Kevin Benton  wrote:

> It guarantees that if you hit the date deadline local time, that you won't
> miss the deadline. It doesn't matter if there are extra hours afterwards.
> The idea is that it gets rid of the need to do time zone conversions.
>
> If we are trying to do some weird optimization where everyone wants to
> submit in the last 60 seconds, then sure AOE isn't great for that because
> you still have to convert. It doesn't seem to me like that's what we are
> trying to do though.
>
Alternatively you give a UTC time (which all of our meetings are in anyway)
and set the deadline. Maybe we should be setting the deadline to the
western-most timezone (UTC-11/-12?) 23:59 as the deadline. This would
simply do what you're stating without having to explain AOE more concretely
than "submit by 23:59 your tz day X".

I think this is all superfluous however and we should simply encourage
people to not wait until the last minute. Waiting to see who is
running/what the field looks like isn't as important as standing up and
saying you're interested in running.

You shouldn't worry about hurting anyone's feelings by running and more
importantly most PTLs will be happy to have someone else shoulder some of
the weight; by tossing your name into the ring it signals you're willing to
help out in this regard. I know that as a PTL (an outgoing one at that)
having this clear signal would raise an individual towards the top of the
list for asking if they want the responsibility delegated to them as it was
indicated they already wanted to be part of leadership for the project.

Just a $0.02 on the timing concerns.

--Morgan
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Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2015-09-17 Thread Kyle Mestery
On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 3:19 PM, Anne Gentle 
wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 3:15 PM, John Griffith 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 2:00 PM, Doug Hellmann 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Excerpts from Morgan Fainberg's message of 2015-09-17 12:51:33 -0700:
>>>
>>> > I think this is all superfluous however and we should simply encourage
>>> > people to not wait until the last minute. Waiting to see who is
>>> > running/what the field looks like isn't as important as standing up and
>>> > saying you're interested in running.
>>>
>>> +1
>>>
>>> Doug
>>>
>>>
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>>
>> ​My dog ate my homework...
>> My car wouldn't start...
>> I couldn't figure out what UTC time was...
>>
>> The guidelines seemed pretty clear:
>> Any member of an election electorate can propose their candidacy for the
>> same election until September 17, 05:59 UTC​
>>
>> That being said, a big analysis on date/time selection etc doesn't really
>> seem warranted here or harping on the fact that something 'went wrong'.  I
>> as a TC member have no problem saying "things happen" and those that have
>> submitted candidacy albeit late and are unopposed are in.. no muss no
>> fuss.  I *think* we're all reasonable adults and don't know that anybody
>> had in mind that the TC would arbitrarily assign somebody that wasn't even
>> listed as a PTL for one of the mentioned projects.
>>
>>
> It's not so simple for Magnum, with 2 late candidacies. We'll figure it
> out but yes, we have work to do.
>
>
It could be simple: Let magnum have an election with both candidates. As
Monty said:

"... this is a great example of places where human judgement is better than
rules."

Thanks,
Kyle


> Anne
>
>
> Moving on,
>> John
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
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> Rackspace
> Principal Engineer
> www.justwriteclick.com
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Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2015-09-17 Thread Adrian Otto
I’d like to extend my apologies to the election officials and the TC for not 
submitting my Magnum PTL candidacy before the deadline. There was a 
miscommunication between me and Anne Gentle about the deadline, so I made 
inappropriate plans for submission. It is here:

https://review.openstack.org/224850

Thanks for your consideration.

Adrian Otto

> On Sep 17, 2015, at 1:00 PM, Doug Hellmann  wrote:
> 
> Excerpts from Morgan Fainberg's message of 2015-09-17 12:51:33 -0700:
> 
>> I think this is all superfluous however and we should simply encourage
>> people to not wait until the last minute. Waiting to see who is
>> running/what the field looks like isn't as important as standing up and
>> saying you're interested in running.
> 
> +1
> 
> Doug
> 
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Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2015-09-17 Thread Anne Gentle
On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 3:15 PM, John Griffith 
wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 2:00 PM, Doug Hellmann 
> wrote:
>
>> Excerpts from Morgan Fainberg's message of 2015-09-17 12:51:33 -0700:
>>
>> > I think this is all superfluous however and we should simply encourage
>> > people to not wait until the last minute. Waiting to see who is
>> > running/what the field looks like isn't as important as standing up and
>> > saying you're interested in running.
>>
>> +1
>>
>> Doug
>>
>> __
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>> Unsubscribe:
>> openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe
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>>
>
> ​My dog ate my homework...
> My car wouldn't start...
> I couldn't figure out what UTC time was...
>
> The guidelines seemed pretty clear:
> Any member of an election electorate can propose their candidacy for the
> same election until September 17, 05:59 UTC​
>
> That being said, a big analysis on date/time selection etc doesn't really
> seem warranted here or harping on the fact that something 'went wrong'.  I
> as a TC member have no problem saying "things happen" and those that have
> submitted candidacy albeit late and are unopposed are in.. no muss no
> fuss.  I *think* we're all reasonable adults and don't know that anybody
> had in mind that the TC would arbitrarily assign somebody that wasn't even
> listed as a PTL for one of the mentioned projects.
>
>
It's not so simple for Magnum, with 2 late candidacies. We'll figure it out
but yes, we have work to do.

Anne


Moving on,
> John
>
>
>
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Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2015-09-17 Thread Dolph Mathews
On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 3:15 PM, John Griffith 
wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 2:00 PM, Doug Hellmann 
> wrote:
>
>> Excerpts from Morgan Fainberg's message of 2015-09-17 12:51:33 -0700:
>>
>> > I think this is all superfluous however and we should simply encourage
>> > people to not wait until the last minute. Waiting to see who is
>> > running/what the field looks like isn't as important as standing up and
>> > saying you're interested in running.
>>
>> +1
>>
>> Doug
>>
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>>
>
> ​My dog ate my homework...
> My car wouldn't start...
> I couldn't figure out what UTC time was...
>
> The guidelines seemed pretty clear:
> Any member of an election electorate can propose their candidacy for the
> same election until September 17, 05:59 UTC​
>
> That being said, a big analysis on date/time selection etc doesn't really
> seem warranted here or harping on the fact that something 'went wrong'.  I
> as a TC member have no problem saying "things happen" and those that have
> submitted candidacy albeit late and are unopposed are in.. no muss no
> fuss.  I *think* we're all reasonable adults and don't know that anybody
> had in mind that the TC would arbitrarily assign somebody that wasn't even
> listed as a PTL for one of the mentioned projects.
>

+1 I don't think there's a problem to be solved here by changing the
deadline for candidacies. We all understand UTC. We have a well advertised
and well understood process for resolving such issues already. No matter
the deadline, that process will still be there.


>
> Moving on,
> John
>
>
>
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Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2015-09-17 Thread Nikhil Komawar


On 9/17/15 3:51 PM, Morgan Fainberg wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 12:00 PM, Kevin Benton  > wrote:
>
> It guarantees that if you hit the date deadline local time, that
> you won't miss the deadline. It doesn't matter if there are extra
> hours afterwards. The idea is that it gets rid of the need to do
> time zone conversions.
>
> If we are trying to do some weird optimization where everyone
> wants to submit in the last 60 seconds, then sure AOE isn't great
> for that because you still have to convert. It doesn't seem to me
> like that's what we are trying to do though.
>
> Alternatively you give a UTC time (which all of our meetings are in
> anyway) and set the deadline. Maybe we should be setting the deadline
> to the western-most timezone (UTC-11/-12?) 23:59 as the deadline. This
> would simply do what you're stating without having to explain AOE more
> concretely than "submit by 23:59 your tz day X".
>

> I think this is all superfluous however and we should simply encourage
> people to not wait until the last minute. Waiting to see who is
> running/what the field looks like isn't as important as standing up
> and saying you're interested in running.
>

I like that you have used the word encourage however, will have to
disagree here. Life in general can't permit that to everyone -- there
can be any important things pop up at unexpected time, someone on
vacation and getting late to come back etc. And on top of that people
can get caught up particularly at this week.  The time-line for
proposals is a good idea seems a good idea in general.

> You shouldn't worry about hurting anyone's feelings by running and
> more importantly most PTLs will be happy to have someone else shoulder
> some of the weight; by tossing your name into the ring it signals
> you're willing to help out in this regard. I know that as a PTL (an
> outgoing one at that) having this clear signal would raise an
> individual towards the top of the list for asking if they want the
> responsibility delegated to them as it was indicated they already
> wanted to be part of leadership for the project.
>
> Just a $0.02 on the timing concerns.
>
> --Morgan
>  
>
>
>
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 My 2 pennies worth.

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Thanks,
Nikhil


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Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2015-09-17 Thread Hongbin Lu
Hi,

I am fine to have an election with Adrian Otto, and potentially with other 
candidates who are also late.

Best regards,
Hongbin

From: Kyle Mestery [mailto:mest...@mestery.com]
Sent: September-17-15 4:24 PM
To: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 3:19 PM, Anne Gentle 
<annegen...@justwriteclick.com<mailto:annegen...@justwriteclick.com>> wrote:


On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 3:15 PM, John Griffith 
<john.griffi...@gmail.com<mailto:john.griffi...@gmail.com>> wrote:


On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 2:00 PM, Doug Hellmann 
<d...@doughellmann.com<mailto:d...@doughellmann.com>> wrote:
Excerpts from Morgan Fainberg's message of 2015-09-17 12:51:33 -0700:

> I think this is all superfluous however and we should simply encourage
> people to not wait until the last minute. Waiting to see who is
> running/what the field looks like isn't as important as standing up and
> saying you're interested in running.

+1

Doug

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​My dog ate my homework...
My car wouldn't start...
I couldn't figure out what UTC time was...

The guidelines seemed pretty clear:
Any member of an election electorate can propose their candidacy for the same 
election until September 17, 05:59 UTC​

That being said, a big analysis on date/time selection etc doesn't really seem 
warranted here or harping on the fact that something 'went wrong'.  I as a TC 
member have no problem saying "things happen" and those that have submitted 
candidacy albeit late and are unopposed are in.. no muss no fuss.  I *think* 
we're all reasonable adults and don't know that anybody had in mind that the TC 
would arbitrarily assign somebody that wasn't even listed as a PTL for one of 
the mentioned projects.


It's not so simple for Magnum, with 2 late candidacies. We'll figure it out but 
yes, we have work to do.


It could be simple: Let magnum have an election with both candidates. As Monty 
said:

"... this is a great example of places where human judgement is better than 
rules."
Thanks,
Kyle

Anne


Moving on,
John



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Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2015-09-17 Thread Nikhil Komawar
My 2 cents:

I like to solve problems and seems like this is a common problem in many
conferences, seminars, etc. The usual way of solving this issue is to
have a grace period with last minute extension to deadline for
proposals, possibly for a unknown period of time and unannounced.
However, in this particular case the published schedule of voting on the
wiki can be a spoiler. May be there's a workaround I'm not thinking here
but anyways, it's out there now.

On 9/17/15 9:25 AM, Tristan Cacqueray wrote:
> PTL Nomination is now over. The official candidate list is available on
> the wiki[0].
>
> There are 5 projects without candidates, so according to this
> resolution[1], the TC we'll have to appoint a new PTL for Barbican,
> MagnetoDB, Magnum, Murano and Security
>
> There are 7 projects that will have an election: Cinder, Glance, Ironic,
> Keystone, Mistral, Neutron and Oslo. The details for those will be
> posted tomorrow after Tony and I setup the CIVS system.
>
> Thank you,
> Tristan
>
>
> [0]:
> https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/PTL_Elections_September_2015#Confirmed_Candidates
> [1]:
> http://governance.openstack.org/resolutions/20141128-elections-process-for-leaderless-programs.html
>
>
>
>
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Thanks,
Nikhil


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Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is now over

2015-09-17 Thread Anita Kuno
On 09/17/2015 11:26 AM, Kevin Benton wrote:
> Maybe it would be a good idea to switch to 23:59 AOE deadlines like many
> paper submissions use for academic conferences. That way there is never a
> need to convert TZs, you just get it in by the end of the day in your own
> time zone.

OpenStack uses UTC for activities overseen by the TC:
http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/governance/tree/resolutions/20150512-utc.rst

Thanks,
Anita.

> On Sep 17, 2015 9:18 AM, "Edgar Magana" <edgar.mag...@workday.com> wrote:
> 
>> Folks,
>>
>> Last year I found myself in the same position when I missed a deadline
>> because my wrong planning and time zones nightmare!
>> However, the rules were very clear and I assumed my mistake. So, we should
>> assume that we do not have candidates and follow the already described
>> process. However, this should be very easy to figure out for the TC, it is
>> just a matter to find our who is interested in the PTL role and consulting
>> with the core team of that specific project.
>>
>> Just my two cents…
>>
>> Edgar
>>
>> From: Kyle Mestery
>> Reply-To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)"
>> Date: Thursday, September 17, 2015 at 8:48 AM
>> To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)"
>> Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [all][elections] PTL nomination period is
>> now over
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 10:26 AM, Monty Taylor <mord...@inaugust.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 09/17/2015 04:50 PM, Anita Kuno wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 09/17/2015 08:22 AM, Matt Riedemann wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 9/17/2015 8:25 AM, Tristan Cacqueray wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> PTL Nomination is now over. The official candidate list is available on
>>>>>> the wiki[0].
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are 5 projects without candidates, so according to this
>>>>>> resolution[1], the TC we'll have to appoint a new PTL for Barbican,
>>>>>> MagnetoDB, Magnum, Murano and Security
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This is devil's advocate, but why does a project technically need a PTL?
>>>>>   Just so that there can be a contact point for cross-project things,
>>>>> i.e. a lightning rod?  There are projects that do a lot of group
>>>>> leadership/delegation/etc, so it doesn't seem that a PTL is technically
>>>>> required in all cases.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I think that is a great question for the TC to consider when they
>>>> evaluate options for action with these projects.
>>>>
>>>> The election officials are fulfilling their obligation according to the
>>>> resolution:
>>>>
>>>> http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/governance/tree/resolutions/20141128-elections-process-for-leaderless-programs.rst
>>>>
>>>> If you read the verb there the verb is "can" not "must", I choose the
>>>> verb "can" on purpose for the resolution when I wrote it. The TC has the
>>>> option to select an appointee. The TC can do other things as well,
>>>> should the TC choose.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I agree- and this is a great example of places where human judgement is
>>> better than rules.
>>>
>>> For instance - one of the projects had a nominee but it missed the
>>> deadline, so that's probably an easy on.
>>>
>>> For one of the projects it had been looking dead for a while, so this is
>>> the final nail in the coffin from my POV
>>>
>>> For the other three - I know they're still active projects with people
>>> interested in them, so sorting them out will be fun!
>>>
>>>
>> This is the right approach. Human judgement #ftw! :)
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> There are 7 projects that will have an election: Cinder, Glance,
>>>>>> Ironic,
>>>>>> Keystone, Mistral, Neutron and Oslo. The details for those will be
>>>>>> posted tomorrow after Tony and I setup the CIVS system.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>> Tristan
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [0]:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/PTL_Elections_September_2015#Confirmed_Candida