Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Proposal: Separate design summits from OpenStack conferences

2016-02-15 Thread Jim Meyer
On Feb 15, 2016, at 7:59 AM, Jeremy Stanley wrote: > >> On 2016-02-15 04:36:25 -0500 (-0500), Eoghan Glynn wrote: >> [...] >> Traditionally all ATCs earn a free pass for summit, whereas the >> other attendees pay $600 or more for entry. I'm wondering if (a) >> there's some

Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Proposal: Separate design summits from OpenStack conferences

2016-02-15 Thread Jeremy Stanley
On 2016-02-15 04:36:25 -0500 (-0500), Eoghan Glynn wrote: [...] > Traditionally all ATCs earn a free pass for summit, whereas the > other attendees pay $600 or more for entry. I'm wondering if (a) > there's some cross-subsidization going on here and (b) if the > design summit was cleaved off,

Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Proposal: Separate design summits from OpenStack conferences

2016-02-15 Thread James Bottomley
On Mon, 2016-02-15 at 04:36 -0500, Eoghan Glynn wrote: > > > > Honestly I don't know of any communication between two cores at a > > > +2 party that couldn't have just as easily happened surrounded by > > > other contributors. Nor, I hope, does anyone put in the > > > substantial reviewing

Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Proposal: Separate design summits from OpenStack conferences

2016-02-15 Thread Eoghan Glynn
> > Honestly I don't know of any communication between two cores at a +2 > > party that couldn't have just as easily happened surrounded by other > > contributors. Nor, I hope, does anyone put in the substantial > > reviewing effort required to become a core in order to score a few > > free

Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Proposal: Separate design summits from OpenStack conferences

2016-02-14 Thread Ken'ichi Ohmichi
2016-02-12 19:06 GMT-08:00 Adam Young : > On 02/12/2016 06:17 AM, Eoghan Glynn wrote: >>> >>> tl;dr >>> = >>> >>> I have long thought that the OpenStack Summits have become too >>> commercial and provide little value to the software engineers >>> contributing to OpenStack.

Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Proposal: Separate design summits from OpenStack conferences

2016-02-14 Thread Henry Nash
On 14 Feb 2016, at 09:53, Henry Nash wrote: > On 13 Feb 2016, at 03:06, Adam Young > wrote: > > On 02/12/2016 06:17 AM, Eoghan Glynn wrote: >> >>> Hello all, >>> >>> tl;dr >>> = >>> >>> I have long thought that the

Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Proposal: Separate design summits from OpenStack conferences

2016-02-12 Thread Thierry Carrez
Eoghan Glynn wrote: [...] * much of the problem with the lavish parties is IMO related to the *exclusivity* of certain shindigs, as opposed to devs socializing at summit being inappropriate per se. In that vein, I think the cores party sends the wrong message and has run its

Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Proposal: Separate design summits from OpenStack conferences

2016-02-12 Thread Eoghan Glynn
> > [...] > > * much of the problem with the lavish parties is IMO related to the > > *exclusivity* of certain shindigs, as opposed to devs socializing at > > summit being inappropriate per se. In that vein, I think the cores > > party sends the wrong message and has run its

Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Proposal: Separate design summits from OpenStack conferences

2016-02-12 Thread Eoghan Glynn
> Hello all, > > tl;dr > = > > I have long thought that the OpenStack Summits have become too > commercial and provide little value to the software engineers > contributing to OpenStack. > > I propose the following: > > 1) Separate the design summits from the conferences > 2) Hold only a

Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Proposal: Separate design summits from OpenStack conferences

2016-02-12 Thread Assaf Muller
On Fri, Feb 12, 2016 at 8:43 AM, Ihar Hrachyshka wrote: > Eoghan Glynn wrote: > >> >> [...] * much of the problem with the lavish parties is IMO related to the *exclusivity* of certain shindigs, as opposed to devs socializing at

Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Proposal: Separate design summits from OpenStack conferences

2016-02-12 Thread gordon chung
On 12/02/16 07:45 AM, Eoghan Glynn wrote: > >>> [...] >>>* much of the problem with the lavish parties is IMO related to the >>> *exclusivity* of certain shindigs, as opposed to devs socializing at >>> summit being inappropriate per se. In that vein, I think the cores >>>

Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Proposal: Separate design summits from OpenStack conferences

2016-02-12 Thread Ihar Hrachyshka
Eoghan Glynn wrote: [...] * much of the problem with the lavish parties is IMO related to the *exclusivity* of certain shindigs, as opposed to devs socializing at summit being inappropriate per se. In that vein, I think the cores party sends the wrong

Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Proposal: Separate design summits from OpenStack conferences

2016-02-12 Thread Eoghan Glynn
> > For the cores party, much as I enjoyed the First Nation cuisine in > > Vancouver > > or the performance art in Tokyo, IMO it's probably time to draw a line > > under > > that excess also, as it too projects a notion of exclusivity that runs > > counter > > to building a community. > > ...

Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Proposal: Separate design summits from OpenStack conferences

2016-02-12 Thread James Bottomley
On Fri, 2016-02-12 at 07:45 -0500, Eoghan Glynn wrote: > > > > [...] > > > * much of the problem with the lavish parties is IMO related to > > > the > > > *exclusivity* of certain shindigs, as opposed to devs > > > socializing at > > > summit being inappropriate per se. In that vein, I

Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Proposal: Separate design summits from OpenStack conferences

2016-02-12 Thread Eoghan Glynn
> > > > [...] > > > > * much of the problem with the lavish parties is IMO related to > > > > the > > > > *exclusivity* of certain shindigs, as opposed to devs > > > > socializing at > > > > summit being inappropriate per se. In that vein, I think the > > > > cores > > > > party

Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Proposal: Separate design summits from OpenStack conferences

2016-02-12 Thread James Bottomley
On Fri, 2016-02-12 at 13:26 -0500, Eoghan Glynn wrote: > > > > > > [...] > > > > > * much of the problem with the lavish parties is IMO > > > > > related to > > > > > the > > > > > *exclusivity* of certain shindigs, as opposed to devs > > > > > socializing at > > > > > summit being

Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Proposal: Separate design summits from OpenStack conferences

2016-02-12 Thread Nate Johnston
A new contributor's point of view... My first summit was Tokyo, so I have no comparison between how things are and they way they used to be. But by the end of Friday, I and the other people I spoke to - both first-time participants and veterans - had the same sentiment: we wished that the

Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Proposal: Separate design summits from OpenStack conferences

2016-02-12 Thread Adam Young
On 02/12/2016 06:17 AM, Eoghan Glynn wrote: Hello all, tl;dr = I have long thought that the OpenStack Summits have become too commercial and provide little value to the software engineers contributing to OpenStack. I propose the following: 1) Separate the design summits from the

Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Proposal: Separate design summits from OpenStack conferences

2016-02-08 Thread Fausto Marzi
On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 11:19 AM, Jay Pipes wrote: > On 02/08/2016 10:29 AM, Sean Dague wrote: > >> On 02/08/2016 10:07 AM, Thierry Carrez wrote: >> >>> Brian Curtin wrote: >>> On Sun, Feb 7, 2016 at 3:07 PM, Jay Pipes wrote: > I would love

Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Proposal: Separate design summits from OpenStack conferences

2016-02-08 Thread Dmitry Tantsur
On 02/07/2016 09:07 PM, Jay Pipes wrote: Hello all, tl;dr = I have long thought that the OpenStack Summits have become too commercial and provide little value to the software engineers contributing to OpenStack. I propose the following: 1) Separate the design summits from the conferences

Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Proposal: Separate design summits from OpenStack conferences

2016-02-08 Thread James Bottomley
On Mon, 2016-02-08 at 09:43 -0500, Jay Pipes wrote: > On 02/08/2016 09:03 AM, Fausto Marzi wrote: > > The OpenStack Summit is a great thing as it is now. It creates big > > momentum, it's a strong motivator for the engineers (as enjoy our > > time > > there) > > I disagree with you on this. The

Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Proposal: Separate design summits from OpenStack conferences

2016-02-08 Thread Anita Kuno
On 02/08/2016 11:11 AM, Fausto Marzi wrote: > On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 11:19 AM, Jay Pipes wrote: > >> On 02/08/2016 10:29 AM, Sean Dague wrote: >> >>> On 02/08/2016 10:07 AM, Thierry Carrez wrote: >>> Brian Curtin wrote: > On Sun, Feb 7, 2016 at 3:07 PM, Jay

Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Proposal: Separate design summits from OpenStack conferences

2016-02-08 Thread Jay Pipes
On 02/08/2016 10:29 AM, Sean Dague wrote: On 02/08/2016 10:07 AM, Thierry Carrez wrote: Brian Curtin wrote: On Sun, Feb 7, 2016 at 3:07 PM, Jay Pipes wrote: I would love to see the OpenStack contributor community take back the design summit to its original format and

Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Proposal: Separate design summits from OpenStack conferences

2016-02-08 Thread Jim Meyer
On Feb 8, 2016, at 7:07 AM, Thierry Carrez wrote: > > Brian Curtin wrote: >>> On Sun, Feb 7, 2016 at 3:07 PM, Jay Pipes wrote: >>> I would love to see the OpenStack contributor community take back the design >>> summit to its original format and

Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Proposal: Separate design summits from OpenStack conferences

2016-02-08 Thread Thierry Carrez
Daniel P. Berrange wrote: [...] I really agree with everything you say, except for the bit about the community doing organization - I think its fine to let function event staff continue with the burden of planning, as long as their goals are directed by the community needs. Exactly. I might

Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Proposal: Separate design summits from OpenStack conferences

2016-02-08 Thread Daniel P. Berrange
On Sun, Feb 07, 2016 at 03:07:20PM -0500, Jay Pipes wrote: > I would love to see the OpenStack contributor community take back the design > summit to its original format and purpose and decouple it from the OpenStack > Summit's conference portion. > > I believe the design summits should be

Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Proposal: Separate design summits from OpenStack conferences

2016-02-08 Thread Thierry Carrez
Jay Pipes wrote: tl;dr = I have long thought that the OpenStack Summits have become too commercial and provide little value to the software engineers contributing to OpenStack. I propose the following: 1) Separate the design summits from the conferences 2) Hold only a single OpenStack

Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Proposal: Separate design summits from OpenStack conferences

2016-02-08 Thread Brian Curtin
On Sun, Feb 7, 2016 at 3:07 PM, Jay Pipes wrote: > I would love to see the OpenStack contributor community take back the design > summit to its original format and purpose and decouple it from the OpenStack > Summit's conference portion. > > I believe the design summits should

Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Proposal: Separate design summits from OpenStack conferences

2016-02-08 Thread Anita Kuno
On 02/07/2016 10:42 PM, Michael Still wrote: > On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 1:51 AM, Monty Taylor wrote: > > [snip] > > >> Fifth - if we do this, the real need for the mid-cycles we currently have >> probably goes away since the summit week can be a legit wall-to-wall work >>

Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Proposal: Separate design summits from OpenStack conferences

2016-02-08 Thread Anita Kuno
On 02/08/2016 04:09 AM, Thierry Carrez wrote: > Jay Pipes wrote: >> tl;dr >> = >> >> I have long thought that the OpenStack Summits have become too >> commercial and provide little value to the software engineers >> contributing to OpenStack. >> >> I propose the following: >> >> 1) Separate

Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Proposal: Separate design summits from OpenStack conferences

2016-02-08 Thread Thierry Carrez
Brian Curtin wrote: On Sun, Feb 7, 2016 at 3:07 PM, Jay Pipes wrote: I would love to see the OpenStack contributor community take back the design summit to its original format and purpose and decouple it from the OpenStack Summit's conference portion. I believe the design

Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Proposal: Separate design summits from OpenStack conferences

2016-02-08 Thread Jim Meyer
This thread is going many directions all at once, so I'll somewhat rudely top-reply and call out specific points rather than extend each sub-thread. Thierry, I suspect your strawman will address all of these points and more. Decoupling: I'm very much in favor. For a long time, devs at summits

Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Proposal: Separate design summits from OpenStack conferences

2016-02-08 Thread Fausto Marzi
On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 6:26 AM, Thierry Carrez wrote: > Daniel P. Berrange wrote: > >> [...] >> I really agree with everything you say, except for the bit about the >> community doing organization - I think its fine to let function event >> staff continue with the burden

Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Proposal: Separate design summits from OpenStack conferences

2016-02-08 Thread Doug Hellmann
Excerpts from Brian Curtin's message of 2016-02-08 09:09:37 -0500: > On Sun, Feb 7, 2016 at 3:07 PM, Jay Pipes wrote: > > I would love to see the OpenStack contributor community take back the design > > summit to its original format and purpose and decouple it from the

Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Proposal: Separate design summits from OpenStack conferences

2016-02-08 Thread Jay Pipes
On 02/08/2016 09:03 AM, Fausto Marzi wrote: The OpenStack Summit is a great thing as it is now. It creates big momentum, it's a strong motivator for the engineers (as enjoy our time there) I disagree with you on this. The design summits are intended to be working events, not conference

Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Proposal: Separate design summits from OpenStack conferences

2016-02-08 Thread Anita Kuno
On 02/08/2016 09:42 AM, Anita Kuno wrote: > On 02/08/2016 04:09 AM, Thierry Carrez wrote: >> Jay Pipes wrote: >>> tl;dr >>> = >>> >>> I have long thought that the OpenStack Summits have become too >>> commercial and provide little value to the software engineers >>> contributing to OpenStack.

Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Proposal: Separate design summits from OpenStack conferences

2016-02-08 Thread Sean Dague
On 02/08/2016 10:07 AM, Thierry Carrez wrote: > Brian Curtin wrote: >> On Sun, Feb 7, 2016 at 3:07 PM, Jay Pipes wrote: >>> I would love to see the OpenStack contributor community take back the >>> design >>> summit to its original format and purpose and decouple it from the

Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Proposal: Separate design summits from OpenStack conferences

2016-02-08 Thread Dmitry Tantsur
On 02/08/2016 06:37 PM, Kevin L. Mitchell wrote: On Mon, 2016-02-08 at 10:49 -0500, Jay Pipes wrote: 5) Dealing with schwag, giveaways, parties, and other superfluous stuff As a confirmed introvert, I have to say that I rarely attend parties, for a variety of reasons. However, I don't think

Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Proposal: Separate design summits from OpenStack conferences

2016-02-08 Thread Kevin L. Mitchell
On Mon, 2016-02-08 at 10:49 -0500, Jay Pipes wrote: > 5) Dealing with schwag, giveaways, parties, and other superfluous > stuff As a confirmed introvert, I have to say that I rarely attend parties, for a variety of reasons. However, I don't think our hypothetical design-only meeting should

Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Proposal: Separate design summits from OpenStack conferences

2016-02-08 Thread Tim Bell
From: Jesse Pretorius Reply-To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" Date: Monday 8 February 2016 at 20:34 To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Proposal: Separate design sum

Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Proposal: Separate design summits from OpenStack conferences

2016-02-08 Thread Jay Pipes
On 02/08/2016 11:56 AM, James Bottomley wrote: On Mon, 2016-02-08 at 09:43 -0500, Jay Pipes wrote: On 02/08/2016 09:03 AM, Fausto Marzi wrote: The OpenStack Summit is a great thing as it is now. It creates big momentum, it's a strong motivator for the engineers (as enjoy our time there) I

Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Proposal: Separate design summits from OpenStack conferences

2016-02-08 Thread Mike Perez
On 10:49 Feb 08, Jay Pipes wrote: > On 02/08/2016 10:29 AM, Sean Dague wrote: > >The Foundation has done an amazing job of making everyone think this is > >easy (I know how much it is not). Without their efforts organizing these > >events, eliminating the distractions of wandering in a strange

Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Proposal: Separate design summits from OpenStack conferences

2016-02-08 Thread James Bottomley
On Sun, 2016-02-07 at 15:07 -0500, Jay Pipes wrote: > Hello all, > > tl;dr > = > > I have long thought that the OpenStack Summits have become too > commercial and provide little value to the software engineers > contributing to OpenStack. > > I propose the following: > > 1) Separate the

Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Proposal: Separate design summits from OpenStack conferences

2016-02-08 Thread Jesse Pretorius
Simply replying to the last reply in the thread to add a thought: As someone who wants to be speaking more in presentations and be involved in 'User' or 'Operator' conversations, but also wants to participate in project-specific design sessions, I find that the context switches make it difficult

Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Proposal: Separate design summits from OpenStack conferences

2016-02-07 Thread Gal Sagie
If you compare the number of people that come to mid-cycles with the number of people that come to the summit and attend the design summit, i am sure (without knowing exact numbers) that there is a big difference in favor of the design summit. I also think that its important that users/operators

Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Proposal: Separate design summits from OpenStack conferences

2016-02-07 Thread Amrith Kumar
: Sunday, February 07, 2016 4:17 PM To: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) <openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org> Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Proposal: Separate design summits from OpenStack conferences On Sun, Feb 7, 2016 at 12:07 PM, Jay Pipes <jaypi...@

[openstack-dev] [all][tc] Proposal: Separate design summits from OpenStack conferences

2016-02-07 Thread Jay Pipes
Hello all, tl;dr = I have long thought that the OpenStack Summits have become too commercial and provide little value to the software engineers contributing to OpenStack. I propose the following: 1) Separate the design summits from the conferences 2) Hold only a single OpenStack

Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Proposal: Separate design summits from OpenStack conferences

2016-02-07 Thread Joshua Harlow
On 02/07/2016 12:07 PM, Jay Pipes wrote: Hello all, tl;dr = I have long thought that the OpenStack Summits have become too commercial and provide little value to the software engineers contributing to OpenStack. I propose the following: 1) Separate the design summits from the conferences

Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Proposal: Separate design summits from OpenStack conferences

2016-02-07 Thread Morgan Fainberg
On Sun, Feb 7, 2016 at 12:07 PM, Jay Pipes wrote: > Hello all, > > tl;dr > = > > I have long thought that the OpenStack Summits have become too commercial > and provide little value to the software engineers contributing to > OpenStack. > > I propose the following: > > 1)

Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Proposal: Separate design summits from OpenStack conferences

2016-02-07 Thread Alexander Makarov
sed events that would be > lost entirely. > > > > -amrith > > > > > > *From:* Morgan Fainberg [mailto:morgan.fainb...@gmail.com] > *Sent:* Sunday, February 07, 2016 4:17 PM > *To:* OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) < > openstack-d

Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Proposal: Separate design summits from OpenStack conferences

2016-02-07 Thread Michael Still
On Sun, Feb 7, 2016 at 8:07 PM, Jay Pipes wrote: [snip] > Many contributors submit talks to speak at the conference part of an > OpenStack Summit because their company says it's the only way they will pay > for them to attend the design summit. This is, IMHO, a terrible

Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Proposal: Separate design summits from OpenStack conferences

2016-02-07 Thread Michael Still
On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 1:51 AM, Monty Taylor wrote: [snip] > Fifth - if we do this, the real need for the mid-cycles we currently have > probably goes away since the summit week can be a legit wall-to-wall work > week. > [snip] Another reply to a specific point... I

Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Proposal: Separate design summits from OpenStack conferences

2016-02-07 Thread Monty Taylor
On 02/07/2016 02:07 PM, Jay Pipes wrote: Hello all, tl;dr = I have long thought that the OpenStack Summits have become too commercial and provide little value to the software engineers contributing to OpenStack. I propose the following: 1) Separate the design summits from the conferences