Re: [openstack-dev] [all] [oslo] Suggestion to change verbose=false to true in oslo.log by default
On 7/28/2015 4:28 AM, Dmitry Tantsur wrote: On 07/27/2015 02:11 PM, Sean Dague wrote: Honestly, I think deprecating and removing 'verbose' is probably the best option. INFO is probably the right default behavior, and it's not really "verbose" in any real openstack usage. It is unlikely that anyone would want that to be in the off state, and if so, they can do that via python logging config. Thanks! As I saw no objections, I went ahead and proposed https://review.openstack.org/#/c/206437/ On 07/27/2015 06:32 AM, Dmitry Tantsur wrote: Hi all! I didn't find the discussion on the ML so I feel like starting one. What was the reason of setting verbose to false by default? The patch [1] does not provide any reasoning for it. We all know that software does fail from time to time. While the default level of WARN might give some signal to an operator that *something* is wrong, it usually does not give much clues on *what* and *why*. Our logs guidelines define INFO as units of work, and the default means that operators/people debugging their logs won't even be able to track transitions in their system that lead to an error/warning. Of all people I know 100% are using DEBUG level by default, the only post I've found here on this topic [2] seems to state the same. I realize that DEBUG might give too much information to process (though I always request people to enable debugging log before sending my any bug reports). But is there really a compelling reason to disable INFO? Examples of INFO logs from ironic tempest run: ironic cond: http://logs.openstack.org/62/202562/7/check/gate-tempest-dsvm-ironic-pxe_ssh/090871b/logs/screen-ir-cond.txt.gz?level=INFO nova cpu: http://logs.openstack.org/62/202562/7/check/gate-tempest-dsvm-ironic-pxe_ssh/090871b/logs/screen-n-cpu.txt.gz?level=INFO and the biggest one neutron agt: http://logs.openstack.org/62/202562/7/check/gate-tempest-dsvm-ironic-pxe_ssh/090871b/logs/screen-q-agt.txt.gz?level=INFO As you can see, these logs are so small, you can just read through them without any tooling! Of course it's not a real world example, but I'm dealing with hundrer-of-megabytes debug-level text logs from nova + ironic nearly every day. It's still manangeable for me, grep handles it pretty well (to say nothing about journalctl). WDYT about changing this default on oslo.log level? Thanks, Dmitry [1] https://review.openstack.org/#/c/18110/ [2] http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-operators/2014-March/004156.html __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev This should be cross-posted to the openstack-operators mailing list since it will impact operators and please be sure that something gets into the Liberty release notes about this change. Most projects are pretty good about not logging a ton of stuff at INFO level but there are others that think everything is super important to everyone and are too verbose. -- Thanks, Matt Riedemann __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [all] [oslo] Suggestion to change verbose=false to true in oslo.log by default
On 07/27/2015 02:11 PM, Sean Dague wrote: Honestly, I think deprecating and removing 'verbose' is probably the best option. INFO is probably the right default behavior, and it's not really "verbose" in any real openstack usage. It is unlikely that anyone would want that to be in the off state, and if so, they can do that via python logging config. Thanks! As I saw no objections, I went ahead and proposed https://review.openstack.org/#/c/206437/ On 07/27/2015 06:32 AM, Dmitry Tantsur wrote: Hi all! I didn't find the discussion on the ML so I feel like starting one. What was the reason of setting verbose to false by default? The patch [1] does not provide any reasoning for it. We all know that software does fail from time to time. While the default level of WARN might give some signal to an operator that *something* is wrong, it usually does not give much clues on *what* and *why*. Our logs guidelines define INFO as units of work, and the default means that operators/people debugging their logs won't even be able to track transitions in their system that lead to an error/warning. Of all people I know 100% are using DEBUG level by default, the only post I've found here on this topic [2] seems to state the same. I realize that DEBUG might give too much information to process (though I always request people to enable debugging log before sending my any bug reports). But is there really a compelling reason to disable INFO? Examples of INFO logs from ironic tempest run: ironic cond: http://logs.openstack.org/62/202562/7/check/gate-tempest-dsvm-ironic-pxe_ssh/090871b/logs/screen-ir-cond.txt.gz?level=INFO nova cpu: http://logs.openstack.org/62/202562/7/check/gate-tempest-dsvm-ironic-pxe_ssh/090871b/logs/screen-n-cpu.txt.gz?level=INFO and the biggest one neutron agt: http://logs.openstack.org/62/202562/7/check/gate-tempest-dsvm-ironic-pxe_ssh/090871b/logs/screen-q-agt.txt.gz?level=INFO As you can see, these logs are so small, you can just read through them without any tooling! Of course it's not a real world example, but I'm dealing with hundrer-of-megabytes debug-level text logs from nova + ironic nearly every day. It's still manangeable for me, grep handles it pretty well (to say nothing about journalctl). WDYT about changing this default on oslo.log level? Thanks, Dmitry [1] https://review.openstack.org/#/c/18110/ [2] http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-operators/2014-March/004156.html __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [all] [oslo] Suggestion to change verbose=false to true in oslo.log by default
Honestly, I think deprecating and removing 'verbose' is probably the best option. INFO is probably the right default behavior, and it's not really "verbose" in any real openstack usage. It is unlikely that anyone would want that to be in the off state, and if so, they can do that via python logging config. On 07/27/2015 06:32 AM, Dmitry Tantsur wrote: > Hi all! > > I didn't find the discussion on the ML so I feel like starting one. > What was the reason of setting verbose to false by default? The patch > [1] does not provide any reasoning for it. > > We all know that software does fail from time to time. While the default > level of WARN might give some signal to an operator that *something* is > wrong, it usually does not give much clues on *what* and *why*. Our logs > guidelines define INFO as units of work, and the default means that > operators/people debugging their logs won't even be able to track > transitions in their system that lead to an error/warning. > > Of all people I know 100% are using DEBUG level by default, the only > post I've found here on this topic [2] seems to state the same. I > realize that DEBUG might give too much information to process (though I > always request people to enable debugging log before sending my any bug > reports). But is there really a compelling reason to disable INFO? > > Examples of INFO logs from ironic tempest run: > ironic cond: > http://logs.openstack.org/62/202562/7/check/gate-tempest-dsvm-ironic-pxe_ssh/090871b/logs/screen-ir-cond.txt.gz?level=INFO > > nova cpu: > http://logs.openstack.org/62/202562/7/check/gate-tempest-dsvm-ironic-pxe_ssh/090871b/logs/screen-n-cpu.txt.gz?level=INFO > > and the biggest one neutron agt: > http://logs.openstack.org/62/202562/7/check/gate-tempest-dsvm-ironic-pxe_ssh/090871b/logs/screen-q-agt.txt.gz?level=INFO > > > As you can see, these logs are so small, you can just read through them > without any tooling! Of course it's not a real world example, but I'm > dealing with hundrer-of-megabytes debug-level text logs from nova + > ironic nearly every day. It's still manangeable for me, grep handles it > pretty well (to say nothing about journalctl). > > WDYT about changing this default on oslo.log level? > > Thanks, > Dmitry > > [1] https://review.openstack.org/#/c/18110/ > [2] > http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-operators/2014-March/004156.html > > > __ > OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) > Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe > http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev -- Sean Dague http://dague.net __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
[openstack-dev] [all] [oslo] Suggestion to change verbose=false to true in oslo.log by default
Hi all! I didn't find the discussion on the ML so I feel like starting one. What was the reason of setting verbose to false by default? The patch [1] does not provide any reasoning for it. We all know that software does fail from time to time. While the default level of WARN might give some signal to an operator that *something* is wrong, it usually does not give much clues on *what* and *why*. Our logs guidelines define INFO as units of work, and the default means that operators/people debugging their logs won't even be able to track transitions in their system that lead to an error/warning. Of all people I know 100% are using DEBUG level by default, the only post I've found here on this topic [2] seems to state the same. I realize that DEBUG might give too much information to process (though I always request people to enable debugging log before sending my any bug reports). But is there really a compelling reason to disable INFO? Examples of INFO logs from ironic tempest run: ironic cond: http://logs.openstack.org/62/202562/7/check/gate-tempest-dsvm-ironic-pxe_ssh/090871b/logs/screen-ir-cond.txt.gz?level=INFO nova cpu: http://logs.openstack.org/62/202562/7/check/gate-tempest-dsvm-ironic-pxe_ssh/090871b/logs/screen-n-cpu.txt.gz?level=INFO and the biggest one neutron agt: http://logs.openstack.org/62/202562/7/check/gate-tempest-dsvm-ironic-pxe_ssh/090871b/logs/screen-q-agt.txt.gz?level=INFO As you can see, these logs are so small, you can just read through them without any tooling! Of course it's not a real world example, but I'm dealing with hundrer-of-megabytes debug-level text logs from nova + ironic nearly every day. It's still manangeable for me, grep handles it pretty well (to say nothing about journalctl). WDYT about changing this default on oslo.log level? Thanks, Dmitry [1] https://review.openstack.org/#/c/18110/ [2] http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-operators/2014-March/004156.html __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
