Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Embracing new languages in OpenStack

Ok, as promissed I've pushed a patch with a reference document that collects what I had written in my post and the feedback from this thread. I believe the patch needs tons of discussion so, y'all, get to it :) I've added members from different teams to help filling in some of the sections

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Embracing new languages in OpenStack

Pete Zaitcev wrote: > I'm disappointed that TC voted Golang > down on August 2, but I can see where they come from. > > The problem we're grappling with on the Swift side is (in my view) mainly > that the Go reimplementation provides essential performance advantages > which manifest at a certain

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Embracing new languages in OpenStack

Excerpts from Pete Zaitcev's message of 2016-11-10 11:00:27 -0700: > On Wed, 9 Nov 2016 11:14:32 + (GMT) > Chris Dent wrote: > > > The conversations about additional languages in this community have > > been one our most alarmingly regressive and patronizing. They

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Embracing new languages in OpenStack

Pete, Please see below: On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 1:00 PM, Pete Zaitcev wrote: > On Wed, 9 Nov 2016 11:14:32 + (GMT) > Chris Dent wrote: > >> The conversations about additional languages in this community have >> been one our most alarmingly

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Embracing new languages in OpenStack

Ed Leafe wrote: On Nov 9, 2016, at 5:14 AM, Chris Dent wrote: Something that feels like it gets under-emphasised in this conversation is that change is coming whatever we do. As a community we can either move quickly and stay ahead of the change and see it as a

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Embracing new languages in OpenStack

On Wed, 9 Nov 2016 11:14:32 + (GMT) Chris Dent wrote: > The conversations about additional languages in this community have > been one our most alarmingly regressive and patronizing. They seem > to be bred out of fear rather than hope and out of lack of faith in >

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Embracing new languages in OpenStack

Excerpts from Chris Dent's message of 2016-11-10 15:54:39 +: > On Thu, 10 Nov 2016, Clint Byrum wrote: > > Excerpts from Chris Dent's message of 2016-11-09 11:14:32 +: > >> Let's just get on with making stuff and work out the problems (and of > >> course there will be many, there always

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Embracing new languages in OpenStack

On Nov 9, 2016, at 5:14 AM, Chris Dent wrote: > Something that feels like it gets under-emphasised in this conversation > is that change is coming whatever we do. As a community we can either > move quickly and stay ahead of the change and see it as a productive >

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Embracing new languages in OpenStack

On 10/11/16 15:54 +, Chris Dent wrote: On Thu, 10 Nov 2016, Clint Byrum wrote: Excerpts from Chris Dent's message of 2016-11-09 11:14:32 +: Let's just get on with making stuff and work out the problems (and of course there will be many, there always are) as they happen. That's what we

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Embracing new languages in OpenStack

On Mon, 07 Nov 2016 15:53:51 -0800 Joshua Harlow wrote: > Standards though exist for a reason (and ini files are pretty common > across languages and such); though of course oslo.config has some very > tight integration with openstack, the underlying ini concept it >

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Embracing new languages in OpenStack

On Thu, 10 Nov 2016, Clint Byrum wrote: Excerpts from Chris Dent's message of 2016-11-09 11:14:32 +: Let's just get on with making stuff and work out the problems (and of course there will be many, there always are) as they happen. That's what we do. Apologies for the stretched analogy.

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Embracing new languages in OpenStack

Excerpts from Chris Dent's message of 2016-11-09 11:14:32 +: > On Tue, 8 Nov 2016, Ash wrote: > > > I couldn't agree more. I don't like change for the sake of change (in any > > aspect of my life). So in my mind this would have to be a way to better > > bind us. > > Here, have some tortured

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Embracing new languages in OpenStack

> On Nov 10, 2016, at 7:24 AM, Russell Bryant wrote: > > > > On Wed, Nov 9, 2016 at 3:14 AM, Chris Dent > wrote: > On Tue, 8 Nov 2016, Ash wrote: > > I couldn't agree more. I don't like change for the sake of

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Embracing new languages in OpenStack

On Wed, Nov 9, 2016 at 3:14 AM, Chris Dent wrote: > On Tue, 8 Nov 2016, Ash wrote: > > I couldn't agree more. I don't like change for the sake of change (in any >> aspect of my life). So in my mind this would have to be a way to better >> bind us. >> > > Here, have some

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Embracing new languages in OpenStack

On Wed, Nov 9, 2016 at 3:14 AM, Chris Dent wrote: > > As a community we don't want to be bound together by rules, we want > to be enabled by processes that support making and doing things > effectively. The things that we make and do is what binds us > together. > Here

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Embracing new languages in OpenStack

On Wed, Nov 9, 2016 at 3:14 AM, Chris Dent wrote: > On Tue, 8 Nov 2016, Ash wrote: > > I couldn't agree more. I don't like change for the sake of change (in any >> aspect of my life). So in my mind this would have to be a way to better >> bind us. >> > > Here, have some

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Embracing new languages in OpenStack

On Tue, 8 Nov 2016, Ash wrote: I couldn't agree more. I don't like change for the sake of change (in any aspect of my life). So in my mind this would have to be a way to better bind us. Here, have some tortured metaphors: Something that feels like it gets under-emphasised in this

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Embracing new languages in OpenStack

On Tue, Nov 8, 2016 at 2:27 AM, Thierry Carrez wrote: > Ash wrote: > > [...] > > Here's another take on the situation. If there are people who genuinely > > wish to see a CI pipeline that can support something like Go, perhaps > > you can establish a prerequisite of

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Embracing new languages in OpenStack

Excerpts from Flavio Percoco's message of 2016-11-08 08:33:41 -0800: > On 08/11/16 16:20 +, Hayes, Graham wrote: > >On 08/11/2016 15:55, Doug Hellmann wrote: > >> Excerpts from Hayes, Graham's message of 2016-11-08 13:04:08 +: > >>> On 08/11/2016 10:30, Thierry Carrez wrote: > Ash

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Embracing new languages in OpenStack

On 08/11/2016 16:39, Flavio Percoco wrote: > On 08/11/16 16:20 +, Hayes, Graham wrote: >> On 08/11/2016 15:55, Doug Hellmann wrote: >>> Excerpts from Hayes, Graham's message of 2016-11-08 13:04:08 +: On 08/11/2016 10:30, Thierry Carrez wrote: > Ash wrote: >> [...] >>

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Embracing new languages in OpenStack

On 2016-11-08 06:43:33 -0800 (-0800), Flavio Percoco wrote: [...] > I think part of the community-wide concerns that were raised > originated from the lack of an actual process for this evaluation > to be done and the lack of up front work, which is something that > I'm trying to address here.

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Embracing new languages in OpenStack

On 08/11/16 16:20 +, Hayes, Graham wrote: On 08/11/2016 15:55, Doug Hellmann wrote: Excerpts from Hayes, Graham's message of 2016-11-08 13:04:08 +: On 08/11/2016 10:30, Thierry Carrez wrote: Ash wrote: [...] Here's another take on the situation. If there are people who genuinely wish

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Embracing new languages in OpenStack

On 08/11/2016 15:55, Doug Hellmann wrote: > Excerpts from Hayes, Graham's message of 2016-11-08 13:04:08 +: >> On 08/11/2016 10:30, Thierry Carrez wrote: >>> Ash wrote: [...] Here's another take on the situation. If there are people who genuinely wish to see a CI pipeline that

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Embracing new languages in OpenStack

Excerpts from Hayes, Graham's message of 2016-11-08 13:04:08 +: > On 08/11/2016 10:30, Thierry Carrez wrote: > > Ash wrote: > >> [...] > >> Here's another take on the situation. If there are people who genuinely > >> wish to see a CI pipeline that can support something like Go, perhaps > >>

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Embracing new languages in OpenStack

Excerpts from Joshua Harlow's message of 2016-11-07 15:53:51 -0800: > > > > Concretely - oslo.config is important because it shapes what the config > > files look like. The implementation language of a particular service > > shouldn't change what our config files look like, yeah? > > Standards

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Embracing new languages in OpenStack

On 08/11/16 13:04 +, Hayes, Graham wrote: On 08/11/2016 10:30, Thierry Carrez wrote: That said, I think that if we can have more confidence that our structure can handle it (from infra to release/stable/dep management) and that the OpenStack community will share expertise and best practices

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Embracing new languages in OpenStack

On 08/11/2016 10:30, Thierry Carrez wrote: > Ash wrote: >> [...] >> Here's another take on the situation. If there are people who genuinely >> wish to see a CI pipeline that can support something like Go, perhaps >> you can establish a prerequisite of working with the Infra team on >> establishing

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Embracing new languages in OpenStack

Ash wrote: > [...] > Here's another take on the situation. If there are people who genuinely > wish to see a CI pipeline that can support something like Go, perhaps > you can establish a prerequisite of working with the Infra team on > establishing the new pipeline. In my opinion, this seems to be

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Embracing new languages in OpenStack

Thanks, Jeremy! I don't expect much hand holding but am trying to come up to speed. Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 7, 2016, at 11:10, Jeremy Stanley wrote: > >> On 2016-11-07 10:31:22 -0800 (-0800), Ash wrote: >> [...] >> Here's another take on the situation. If there are

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Embracing new languages in OpenStack

Concretely - oslo.config is important because it shapes what the config files look like. The implementation language of a particular service shouldn't change what our config files look like, yeah? Standards though exist for a reason (and ini files are pretty common across languages and such);

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Embracing new languages in OpenStack

On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 1:32 PM, Flavio Percoco wrote: > I agree with Monty here. If I were to "prioritize" the work on these > libraries, > I'd say parity on the operator's side of things should be the priority. The > rest > of the libraries could be implemented as they are

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Embracing new languages in OpenStack

Excerpts from Flavio Percoco's message of 2016-11-07 11:32:06 -0800: > On 07/11/16 12:16 -0600, Monty Taylor wrote: > >On 11/07/2016 11:58 AM, Hayes, Graham wrote: > >> On 07/11/2016 17:14, Flavio Percoco wrote: > >>> Greetings, > >>> > >>> I literally just posted a thing on my blog with some

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Embracing new languages in OpenStack

On 07/11/16 12:16 -0600, Monty Taylor wrote: On 11/07/2016 11:58 AM, Hayes, Graham wrote: On 07/11/2016 17:14, Flavio Percoco wrote: Greetings, I literally just posted a thing on my blog with some thoughts of what I'd expect any new language being proposed for OpenStack to cover before it can

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Embracing new languages in OpenStack

On 11/07/2016 12:51 PM, John Dickinson wrote: > > > On 7 Nov 2016, at 10:31, Ash wrote: > >> On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 9:58 AM, Hayes, Graham wrote: >> >>> On 07/11/2016 17:14, Flavio Percoco wrote: Greetings, I literally just posted a thing on my blog with

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Embracing new languages in OpenStack

On 2016-11-07 10:31:22 -0800 (-0800), Ash wrote: [...] > Here's another take on the situation. If there are people who genuinely > wish to see a CI pipeline that can support something like Go, perhaps you > can establish a prerequisite of working with the Infra team on establishing > the new

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Embracing new languages in OpenStack

On 7 Nov 2016, at 10:31, Ash wrote: > On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 9:58 AM, Hayes, Graham wrote: > >> On 07/11/2016 17:14, Flavio Percoco wrote: >>> Greetings, >>> >>> I literally just posted a thing on my blog with some thoughts of what >> I'd expect >>> any new language being

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Embracing new languages in OpenStack

On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 9:58 AM, Hayes, Graham wrote: > On 07/11/2016 17:14, Flavio Percoco wrote: > > Greetings, > > > > I literally just posted a thing on my blog with some thoughts of what > I'd expect > > any new language being proposed for OpenStack to cover before it

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Embracing new languages in OpenStack

On 11/07/2016 11:58 AM, Hayes, Graham wrote: > On 07/11/2016 17:14, Flavio Percoco wrote: >> Greetings, >> >> I literally just posted a thing on my blog with some thoughts of what I'd >> expect >> any new language being proposed for OpenStack to cover before it can be >> accepted. >> >> The goal

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Embracing new languages in OpenStack

On 07/11/2016 17:14, Flavio Percoco wrote: > Greetings, > > I literally just posted a thing on my blog with some thoughts of what I'd > expect > any new language being proposed for OpenStack to cover before it can be > accepted. > > The goal is to set the expectations right for what's needed for

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Embracing new languages in OpenStack

Again ? Are we going to have that discussion every 3 months... ? On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 6:09 PM, Flavio Percoco wrote: > Greetings, > > I literally just posted a thing on my blog with some thoughts of what I'd > expect > any new language being proposed for OpenStack to cover

[openstack-dev] [all] Embracing new languages in OpenStack

Greetings, I literally just posted a thing on my blog with some thoughts of what I'd expect any new language being proposed for OpenStack to cover before it can be accepted. The goal is to set the expectations right for what's needed for new languages to be accepted in the community. During the