Re: [openstack-dev] [all] governance proposal worth a visit: Write down OpenStack principles

Thierry Carrez wrote: > Doug Hellmann wrote: >> Excerpts from Jay Pipes's message of 2016-09-09 14:30:29 -0400: >>> > To me, this statement about One OpenStack is about emphasizing those commonalities and working together to increase them, with the combined goals of improving the

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] governance proposal worth a visit: Write down OpenStack principles

> -Original Message- > From: Thierry Carrez [mailto:thie...@openstack.org] > Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2016 3:45 AM > To: openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org > Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [all] governance proposal worth a visit: > Write down OpenStack principles >

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] governance proposal worth a visit: Write down OpenStack principles

Clay Gerrard wrote: > This is why I always have and presumably always will support Thierry on > the TC. His initial thinking *frequently* seems out of alignment with > me, but after observing others healthy debate and discussion [1] - I > always find we tend we both come around a little and seem

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] governance proposal worth a visit: Write down OpenStack principles

> On Sep 12, 2016, at 2:17 PM, Doug Hellmann wrote: > > Excerpts from Thierry Carrez's message of 2016-09-12 08:53:58 +0200: >> Doug Hellmann wrote: >>> Excerpts from Jay Pipes's message of 2016-09-09 14:30:29 -0400: > To me, this statement > about One OpenStack

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] governance proposal worth a visit: Write down OpenStack principles

Excerpts from Thierry Carrez's message of 2016-09-12 08:53:58 +0200: > Doug Hellmann wrote: > > Excerpts from Jay Pipes's message of 2016-09-09 14:30:29 -0400: > >> > To me, this statement > >>> about One OpenStack is about emphasizing those commonalities and > >>> working together to increase

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] governance proposal worth a visit: Write down OpenStack principles

On Sep 12, 2016, at 1:53 AM, Thierry Carrez wrote: > FWIW I agree with Jay that the wording "a product" is definitely > outdated and does not represent the current reality. "Product" > presupposes a level of integration that we never achieved, and which is, > in my

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] governance proposal worth a visit: Write down OpenStack principles

On Sun, Sep 11, 2016 at 11:53 PM, Thierry Carrez wrote: > > FWIW I agree with Jay that the wording "a product" is definitely > outdated and does not represent the current reality. "Product" > presupposes a level of integration that we never achieved, and which is, > in my

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] governance proposal worth a visit: Write down OpenStack principles

Doug Hellmann wrote: > Excerpts from Jay Pipes's message of 2016-09-09 14:30:29 -0400: >> > To me, this statement >>> about One OpenStack is about emphasizing those commonalities and >>> working together to increase them, with the combined goals of >>> improving the user and operator experience

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] governance proposal worth a visit: Write down OpenStack principles

> -Original Message- > From: Edward Leafe [mailto:e...@leafe.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2016 1:02 PM > To: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) > <openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org> > Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [all] governanc

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] governance proposal worth a visit: Write down OpenStack principles

> -Original Message- > From: Chris Dent [mailto:cdent...@anticdent.org] > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2016 7:19 AM > To: OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org > Subject: [openstack-dev] [all] governance proposal worth a visit: Write > down OpenStack principles > >

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] governance proposal worth a visit: Write down OpenStack principles

On 09/09/2016 04:27 PM, Doug Hellmann wrote: Tomato, tomato. We're all, I think, looking at this "One OpenStack" principle from different perspectives. You say "a toolkit". I say "a project". Thierry said "a product". The important word in all of those phrases is "a" -- as in singular.

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] governance proposal worth a visit: Write down OpenStack principles

Excerpts from Jay Pipes's message of 2016-09-09 14:30:29 -0400: > On 09/09/2016 02:10 PM, Doug Hellmann wrote: > > Excerpts from Jay Pipes's message of 2016-09-09 13:03:42 -0400: > >> My vote is definitely for something #2-like, as I've said before and on > >> the review, I believe OpenStack

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] governance proposal worth a visit: Write down OpenStack principles

On 2016-09-09 19:58:23 + (+), John Davidge wrote: [...] > I don't think the problem was the path, but the goal. The > expectation was that Stackforge projects would eventually graduate > into OpenStack projects, but with the definition/requirements of > OpenStack at the time that didn't

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] governance proposal worth a visit: Write down OpenStack principles

On Fri, Sep 9, 2016, at 12:58 PM, John Davidge wrote: > Yes, that's a part of what I'm saying. After writing my first reply I > decided there wasn't much point talking about the problem without > proposing a solution, so I wrote one[2]. Essentially it boils down to: > > * Abolish The Big Tent > *

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] governance proposal worth a visit: Write down OpenStack principles

Jay Pipes wrote: >[…] >The TC doesn't comply with anything at all. It's the body that is >elected to make overarching governance decisions for the OpenStack >community. Sure, that's an important distinction. My point is that when governance decisions are made that seem to contradict each

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] governance proposal worth a visit: Write down OpenStack principles

On 2016-09-09 14:45:57 +0200 (+0200), Flavio Percoco wrote: [...] > As one of the folks that have always brought up "assuming good > faith" whenever possible, I admit that I mistakenly (?) assumed > that it was shared practice [...] You're certainly not alone. I for one don't wish to welcome

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] governance proposal worth a visit: Write down OpenStack principles

On 09/09/2016 02:10 PM, Doug Hellmann wrote: Excerpts from Jay Pipes's message of 2016-09-09 13:03:42 -0400: My vote is definitely for something #2-like, as I've said before and on the review, I believe OpenStack should be a "cloud toolkit" composed of well-scoped and limited services in the

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] governance proposal worth a visit: Write down OpenStack principles

Excerpts from Jay Pipes's message of 2016-09-09 13:03:42 -0400: > On 09/09/2016 06:22 AM, John Davidge wrote: > > Thierry Carrez wrote: > > > >> [...] > >> In the last years there were a lot of "questions" asked by random > >> contributors, especially around the "One OpenStack" principle (which >

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] governance proposal worth a visit: Write down OpenStack principles

On 09/09/2016 06:22 AM, John Davidge wrote: Thierry Carrez wrote: [...] In the last years there were a lot of "questions" asked by random contributors, especially around the "One OpenStack" principle (which seems to fuel most of the reaction here). Remarks like "we should really decide once

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] governance proposal worth a visit: Write down OpenStack principles

Re: "One OpenStack" product Is vim, less, awk, sed, and emacs one product? Are the bolt and nut of same size (and produced by same manufacturer) sitting in a hardware store a single product? A vote or edict does not automatically make things one product - it only conveys a desire. I would argue

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] governance proposal worth a visit: Write down OpenStack principles

On 08/09/16 23:41 -0700, Joshua Harlow wrote: Chris Dent wrote: There's a governance proposal in progress at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/357260/ that I think is worth a visit by anyone interested in the definition and evolution of OpenStack's identity and the processes and guidelines used

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] governance proposal worth a visit: Write down OpenStack principles

On 09/09/16 10:22 +, John Davidge wrote: Thierry Carrez wrote: [...] In the last years there were a lot of "questions" asked by random contributors, especially around the "One OpenStack" principle (which seems to fuel most of the reaction here). Remarks like "we should really decide once

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] governance proposal worth a visit: Write down OpenStack principles

Thierry Carrez wrote: >[...] >In the last years there were a lot of "questions" asked by random >contributors, especially around the "One OpenStack" principle (which >seems to fuel most of the reaction here). Remarks like "we should really >decide once and for all if OpenStack is a collection of

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] governance proposal worth a visit: Write down OpenStack principles

Please, if you haven't, I'd love for you to read Monty's response. He explained in way better words what I was not able too: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-September/103242.html Flavio On 08/09/16 11:32 -0700, Clay Gerrard wrote: On Thu, Sep 8, 2016 at 6:13 AM, Chris

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] governance proposal worth a visit: Write down OpenStack principles

Joshua Harlow wrote: > [...] > This one along with https://review.openstack.org/#/c/365590/ (and others > that I don't know about?) make me wonder what is going on with/in > certain TC folks heads (not in a bad way, but the thought processes that > are spurring these documents to be generated).

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] governance proposal worth a visit: Write down OpenStack principles

On Fri, Sep 09 2016, gordon chung wrote: > On 08/09/16 09:13 AM, Chris Dent wrote: > >> The truth, for me, is that I agree with most of the things in the >> document. What is problematic for me is that I know a lot of people >> who will not. Because of the ordering of the process and the >>

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] governance proposal worth a visit: Write down OpenStack principles

Chris Dent wrote: There's a governance proposal in progress at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/357260/ that I think is worth a visit by anyone interested in the definition and evolution of OpenStack's identity and the processes and guidelines used in OpenStack. I'm assuming that not everyone

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] governance proposal worth a visit: Write down OpenStack principles

On 08/09/2016 06:17, Chris Dent wrote: > On Thu, 8 Sep 2016, Flavio Percoco wrote: > >> To be honest, I think you're expressing in a negative way something >> that was thought in a positive way. The motivation to write the >> principles down is to help the community with the help from the >>

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] governance proposal worth a visit: Write down OpenStack principles

On 08/09/16 09:13 AM, Chris Dent wrote: > The truth, for me, is that I agree with most of the things in the > document. What is problematic for me is that I know a lot of people > who will not. Because of the ordering of the process and the > presumption of the document they will simply choose

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] governance proposal worth a visit: Write down OpenStack principles

On Thu, Sep 8, 2016 at 6:13 AM, Chris Dent wrote: > > That is, it thinks of itself as an existing truth to be ratified. > Gah! YES!! Exactly this! Well said! And this attitude keeps getting echoed again and again from the current oligarchy TC! "We know what OpenStack

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] governance proposal worth a visit: Write down OpenStack principles

On Sep 8, 2016, at 8:13 AM, Chris Dent wrote: > The writing is starting from a detailed proposal which, as txx said in > his response to me above, presents itself as a document that is "meant > to document *existing* principles that we operate under but never > documented

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] governance proposal worth a visit: Write down OpenStack principles

On 09/08/2016 06:18 AM, Chris Dent wrote: > > There's a governance proposal in progress at > https://review.openstack.org/#/c/357260/ that I think is worth a > visit by anyone interested in the definition and evolution of > OpenStack's identity and the processes and guidelines used in OpenStack.

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] governance proposal worth a visit: Write down OpenStack principles

On Thu, 8 Sep 2016, Flavio Percoco wrote: To be honest, I think you're expressing in a negative way something that was thought in a positive way. The motivation to write the principles down is to help the community with the help from the community. No one is pushing anyone's beliefs on anyone.

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] governance proposal worth a visit: Write down OpenStack principles

On 08/09/16 12:18 +0100, Chris Dent wrote: There's a governance proposal in progress at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/357260/ that I think is worth a visit by anyone interested in the definition and evolution of OpenStack's identity and the processes and guidelines used in OpenStack. I'm

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] governance proposal worth a visit: Write down OpenStack principles

Chris Dent wrote: > There's a governance proposal in progress at > https://review.openstack.org/#/c/357260/ that I think is worth a > visit by anyone interested in the definition and evolution of > OpenStack's identity and the processes and guidelines used in OpenStack. > > I'm assuming that not

[openstack-dev] [all] governance proposal worth a visit: Write down OpenStack principles

There's a governance proposal in progress at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/357260/ that I think is worth a visit by anyone interested in the definition and evolution of OpenStack's identity and the processes and guidelines used in OpenStack. I'm assuming that not everyone regularly cruises