Re: [openstack-dev] [monasca] [java]
Dieterly, Deklan wrote: We’ve seen that Swift has introduced components in Go. So, this looks like a precedent for allowing other languages where deemed appropriate. Before we spend many man-hours hacking on the Python components, it seems reasonable to determine if there really exists a reason to do so. I’m interested in soliciting any feedback from the community be it pleasant or unpleasant. Swift has not introduced components in Go. It is at the early stages of *exploring* the possibility of doing so, through a specific feature branch. The Technical Committee position has always been python unless there is a compelling reason otherwise. Every language supported increases fragmentation of our community and increases the CI effort. The argument for adding a language has to be pretty compelling to counterbalance the damage it does to OpenStack as a development community. In Monasca's case, there is always the possibility to stay out of the OpenStack tent and stay in Java. There is the possibility to rewrite things in Python. And there is the possibility to convince the Technical Committee that (1) we want Monasca featureset in so badly we would add Java as a supported language just so that can happen and (2) Monasca featureset can't be written in Python. -- Thierry Carrez (ttx) __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [monasca] [java]
On May 15, 2015, at 3:49 AM, Thierry Carrez thie...@openstack.org wrote: Dieterly, Deklan wrote: We’ve seen that Swift has introduced components in Go. So, this looks like a precedent for allowing other languages where deemed appropriate. Before we spend many man-hours hacking on the Python components, it seems reasonable to determine if there really exists a reason to do so. I’m interested in soliciting any feedback from the community be it pleasant or unpleasant. Swift has not introduced components in Go. It is at the early stages of *exploring* the possibility of doing so, through a specific feature branch. The Technical Committee position has always been python unless there is a compelling reason otherwise. Every language supported increases fragmentation of our community and increases the CI effort. The argument for adding a language has to be pretty compelling to counterbalance the damage it does to OpenStack as a development community. In Monasca's case, there is always the possibility to stay out of the OpenStack tent and stay in Java. There is the possibility to rewrite things in Python. And there is the possibility to convince the Technical Committee that (1) we want Monasca featureset in so badly we would add Java as a supported language just so that can happen and (2) Monasca featureset can't be written in Python. Not to move this discussion off-list but I feel the need to at least point out a highly relevant summit session. Is it time to have more than just Python in OpenStack? https://libertydesignsummit.sched.org/event/6bb3f4fe34a4a0236266d99a2039c963 Everett __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
[openstack-dev] [monasca] [java]
The Monasca project currently has three major components written in Java. Monasca-persister, monasca-thresh, and monasca-api. These components work with Influxdb 0.9.0 and Vertica 7.1. They integrate with Kafka and MySQL. The monasca team is currently bringing the Python versions of these components up to parity with their Java counterparts. This effort is being undertaken because there seems to be considerable friction in introducing Java components into the OpenStack community. At this point, Id like to test the waters a bit and determine what the larger community’s reaction to having these components remain in Java would be. Would there be a general acceptance or would there be a visceral rejection? Is the issue more of integration with existing CI/CD architecture or is there more of a cultural issue? The arguments for Java are non-trivial. Monasca has requirements for very high throughput. Furthermore, integration with Kafka is better supported with Kafka's Java libraries. We’ve seen that Swift has introduced components in Go. So, this looks like a precedent for allowing other languages where deemed appropriate. Before we spend many man-hours hacking on the Python components, it seems reasonable to determine if there really exists a reason to do so. I’m interested in soliciting any feedback from the community be it pleasant or unpleasant. Thanks. — Deklan Dieterly Software Engineer HP __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [monasca] [java]
Thanks, Kevin. Performance is critical. At this point, we are trying to do 100K measurements per second. Yea, Vertica is not open source. Monasca uses either Vertica OR Influxdb as the backend DB. You get to decide what you want. Zookeeper is used by Kafka for distributed synchronization and is very well regarded in the internet-applications realm. It looks like what you are saying is that the issue goes beyond just Java vs Python; it¹s an ops issue. There may be issues with supporting Kafka and Influxdb. That¹s good feedback. Interesting, at the 2014 Summit in Atlanta, the some members of the community heavily lobbied for Influxdb. We¹ve seen perf problems with MySQL in the Ceilometer Project and to wanted to avoid that by using a scalable open source DB for the backend. -- Deklan Dieterly Software Engineer HP On 5/14/15, 10:34 AM, Fox, Kevin M kevin@pnnl.gov wrote: The open source version of java is much better off then it use to be, so I'd say its not out of the question any more. My preference is still python whenever possible since it tends to be much easer to debug/patch in the field. Performance critical stuff is another matter. I would recommend very strongly considering it from the standpoint of what distro's are willing to support, and how much additional learning/operations work you are asking of ops to perform though. OpenStack already pushes an enormous amount of learning onto the ops folks. This will make or break the project. yum list | grep -i influxdb | wc -l 0 hmm... the rpm from the website looks very unusual... The distro folks wont support a package that looks like that. My gut reaction looking at it as an op is to wince and hope I don't have to install it. If I were, I'd have to carefully pull it apart to figure out how to support it long term. Definitely not a rpm -Uvh and forget. Vertica doesn't look to be Open Source? Kafka yet another messaging system... It might be needed, but its yet another thing for ops to figure out how to deal with. The quickstart says Kafka needs Zookeeper. Now yet another dependency for an op to deal with. What does ZooKeeper give that Pacemaker (already used in a lot of clouds) doesn't? I might like to deploy Monasca here some day, but it looks like it will take a large amount of work for me to do so, relative to all the other OpenStack components I want to install, so I probably cant for a while because of some of these design decisions. Thanks, Kevin From: Dieterly, Deklan [deklan.diete...@hp.com] Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2015 8:29 AM To: OpenStack Development Mailing List Subject: [openstack-dev] [monasca] [java] The Monasca project currently has three major components written in Java. Monasca-persister, monasca-thresh, and monasca-api. These components work with Influxdb 0.9.0 and Vertica 7.1. They integrate with Kafka and MySQL. The monasca team is currently bringing the Python versions of these components up to parity with their Java counterparts. This effort is being undertaken because there seems to be considerable friction in introducing Java components into the OpenStack community. At this point, Id like to test the waters a bit and determine what the larger community¹s reaction to having these components remain in Java would be. Would there be a general acceptance or would there be a visceral rejection? Is the issue more of integration with existing CI/CD architecture or is there more of a cultural issue? The arguments for Java are non-trivial. Monasca has requirements for very high throughput. Furthermore, integration with Kafka is better supported with Kafka's Java libraries. We¹ve seen that Swift has introduced components in Go. So, this looks like a precedent for allowing other languages where deemed appropriate. Before we spend many man-hours hacking on the Python components, it seems reasonable to determine if there really exists a reason to do so. I¹m interested in soliciting any feedback from the community be it pleasant or unpleasant. Thanks. ‹ Deklan Dieterly Software Engineer HP __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [monasca] [java]
The open source version of java is much better off then it use to be, so I'd say its not out of the question any more. My preference is still python whenever possible since it tends to be much easer to debug/patch in the field. Performance critical stuff is another matter. I would recommend very strongly considering it from the standpoint of what distro's are willing to support, and how much additional learning/operations work you are asking of ops to perform though. OpenStack already pushes an enormous amount of learning onto the ops folks. This will make or break the project. yum list | grep -i influxdb | wc -l 0 hmm... the rpm from the website looks very unusual... The distro folks wont support a package that looks like that. My gut reaction looking at it as an op is to wince and hope I don't have to install it. If I were, I'd have to carefully pull it apart to figure out how to support it long term. Definitely not a rpm -Uvh and forget. Vertica doesn't look to be Open Source? Kafka yet another messaging system... It might be needed, but its yet another thing for ops to figure out how to deal with. The quickstart says Kafka needs Zookeeper. Now yet another dependency for an op to deal with. What does ZooKeeper give that Pacemaker (already used in a lot of clouds) doesn't? I might like to deploy Monasca here some day, but it looks like it will take a large amount of work for me to do so, relative to all the other OpenStack components I want to install, so I probably cant for a while because of some of these design decisions. Thanks, Kevin From: Dieterly, Deklan [deklan.diete...@hp.com] Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2015 8:29 AM To: OpenStack Development Mailing List Subject: [openstack-dev] [monasca] [java] The Monasca project currently has three major components written in Java. Monasca-persister, monasca-thresh, and monasca-api. These components work with Influxdb 0.9.0 and Vertica 7.1. They integrate with Kafka and MySQL. The monasca team is currently bringing the Python versions of these components up to parity with their Java counterparts. This effort is being undertaken because there seems to be considerable friction in introducing Java components into the OpenStack community. At this point, Id like to test the waters a bit and determine what the larger community’s reaction to having these components remain in Java would be. Would there be a general acceptance or would there be a visceral rejection? Is the issue more of integration with existing CI/CD architecture or is there more of a cultural issue? The arguments for Java are non-trivial. Monasca has requirements for very high throughput. Furthermore, integration with Kafka is better supported with Kafka's Java libraries. We’ve seen that Swift has introduced components in Go. So, this looks like a precedent for allowing other languages where deemed appropriate. Before we spend many man-hours hacking on the Python components, it seems reasonable to determine if there really exists a reason to do so. I’m interested in soliciting any feedback from the community be it pleasant or unpleasant. Thanks. — Deklan Dieterly Software Engineer HP __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
