Re: [openstack-dev] [neutron][api] - attaching arbitrary key/value pairs to resources

2015-08-25 Thread Russell Bryant
On 08/25/2015 03:01 AM, Miguel Angel Ajo wrote: Doug Wiegley wrote: In general, the fight in Neutron *has* to be about common definitions of networking primitives that can be potentially implemented by multiple backends whenever possible. That's the entire point of Neutron. I get that

Re: [openstack-dev] [neutron][api] - attaching arbitrary key/value pairs to resources

2015-08-25 Thread Miguel Angel Ajo
Doug Wiegley wrote: In general, the fight in Neutron *has* to be about common definitions of networking primitives that can be potentially implemented by multiple backends whenever possible. That's the entire point of Neutron. I get that it's hard, but that's the value Neutron brings to

Re: [openstack-dev] [neutron][api] - attaching arbitrary key/value pairs to resources

2015-08-25 Thread Russell Bryant
On 08/25/2015 01:00 AM, Gal Sagie wrote: I agree with Doug and Kevin, i think it is very hard for Neutron to keep the pace in every area of Networking abstraction, and i prefer this solution on code patching. I agree with Russell on the definition of Neutron end goal, but what good can it

Re: [openstack-dev] [neutron][api] - attaching arbitrary key/value pairs to resources

2015-08-24 Thread Russell Bryant
On 08/24/2015 09:25 AM, Kevin Benton wrote: Hi everybody! In Neutron the idea of adding tags to resources has come up several times this cycle alone.[1][2][3] The general concern that has led to them being rejected is that backends will leverage these tags to leak implementation details

Re: [openstack-dev] [neutron][api] - attaching arbitrary key/value pairs to resources

2015-08-24 Thread Gal Sagie
+1 I will alter the proposed spec to indicate that this shouldn't be consumed/used with backends specific data (similar to the way Nova tags indicate it) I see value (and described some use cases in the spec) for using this from the API level Gal. On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 4:35 PM, Russell

[openstack-dev] [neutron][api] - attaching arbitrary key/value pairs to resources

2015-08-24 Thread Kevin Benton
Hi everybody! In Neutron the idea of adding tags to resources has come up several times this cycle alone.[1][2][3] The general concern that has led to them being rejected is that backends will leverage these tags to leak implementation details or backend-specific features (e.g. tags that control

Re: [openstack-dev] [neutron][api] - attaching arbitrary key/value pairs to resources

2015-08-24 Thread Russell Bryant
On 08/24/2015 09:35 AM, Russell Bryant wrote: On 08/24/2015 09:25 AM, Kevin Benton wrote: Hi everybody! In Neutron the idea of adding tags to resources has come up several times this cycle alone.[1][2][3] The general concern that has led to them being rejected is that backends will

Re: [openstack-dev] [neutron][api] - attaching arbitrary key/value pairs to resources

2015-08-24 Thread Kevin Benton
Obviously it'll still be possible to be used by a backend, but it's also possible to patch the code or provide arbitrary API extensions, too. Right, but vendor API extensions are the way that backend-specific features are supposed to be done. With an extension, it's explicit in the API via the

Re: [openstack-dev] [neutron][api] - attaching arbitrary key/value pairs to resources

2015-08-24 Thread Russell Bryant
On 08/24/2015 10:33 AM, Kevin Benton wrote: Obviously it'll still be possible to be used by a backend, but it's also possible to patch the code or provide arbitrary API extensions, too. Right, but vendor API extensions are the way that backend-specific features are supposed to be done. With

Re: [openstack-dev] [neutron][api] - attaching arbitrary key/value pairs to resources

2015-08-24 Thread Jay Pipes
On 08/24/2015 07:33 AM, Kevin Benton wrote: Obviously it'll still be possible to be used by a backend, but it's also possible to patch the code or provide arbitrary API extensions, too. Right, but vendor API extensions are the way that backend-specific features are supposed to be done. With

Re: [openstack-dev] [neutron][api] - attaching arbitrary key/value pairs to resources

2015-08-24 Thread Russell Bryant
On 08/24/2015 01:58 PM, Jay Pipes wrote: On 08/24/2015 07:33 AM, Kevin Benton wrote: Obviously it'll still be possible to be used by a backend, but it's also possible to patch the code or provide arbitrary API extensions, too. Right, but vendor API extensions are the way that

Re: [openstack-dev] [neutron][api] - attaching arbitrary key/value pairs to resources

2015-08-24 Thread Kyle Mestery
On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 2:43 PM, Russell Bryant rbry...@redhat.com wrote: On 08/24/2015 05:25 PM, Doug Wiegley wrote: I took advantage of it to prototype a feature her That right there is the crux of the objections so far. Don’t get me wrong, I’d love this, and would abuse it within an

Re: [openstack-dev] [neutron][api] - attaching arbitrary key/value pairs to resources

2015-08-24 Thread Doug Wiegley
I took advantage of it to prototype a feature her That right there is the crux of the objections so far. Don’t get me wrong, I’d love this, and would abuse it within an inch of its life regularly. The alternative is sometimes even worse than a vendor extension or plugin. Take for example,

Re: [openstack-dev] [neutron][api] - attaching arbitrary key/value pairs to resources

2015-08-24 Thread Russell Bryant
On 08/24/2015 05:25 PM, Doug Wiegley wrote: I took advantage of it to prototype a feature her That right there is the crux of the objections so far. Don’t get me wrong, I’d love this, and would abuse it within an inch of its life regularly. The alternative is sometimes even worse than a

Re: [openstack-dev] [neutron][api] - attaching arbitrary key/value pairs to resources

2015-08-24 Thread Kevin Benton
I don't think even worse code makes this what's proposed here seem any better. I'm not really sure what you're saying. I think he's saying that as a vendor he is looking for ways to expose things that aren't normally available and ends up doing terrible evil things to achieve it. :) And if the

Re: [openstack-dev] [neutron][api] - attaching arbitrary key/value pairs to resources

2015-08-24 Thread Doug Wiegley
In general, the fight in Neutron *has* to be about common definitions of networking primitives that can be potentially implemented by multiple backends whenever possible. That's the entire point of Neutron. I get that it's hard, but that's the value Neutron brings to the table. I think

Re: [openstack-dev] [neutron][api] - attaching arbitrary key/value pairs to resources

2015-08-24 Thread Gal Sagie
I agree with Doug and Kevin, i think it is very hard for Neutron to keep the pace in every area of Networking abstraction, and i prefer this solution on code patching. I agree with Russell on the definition of Neutron end goal, but what good can it provide if clouds stop using Neutron because it

Re: [openstack-dev] [neutron][api] - attaching arbitrary key/value pairs to resources

2015-08-24 Thread Morgan Fainberg
While I don't think it is a bad idea to allow the arbitrary k/v on resources just be aware that the content gets a little wonky as you allow users to place anything they want on resources. I will also voice support for the tag model. The other option is a way to allow the extra values to have