Punishing benign users as a defense against (potentially) malicious
users sounds like a bad strategy. This should not be a zero-sum game.
On 10/28/2013 02:49 PM, Joshua Harlow wrote:
Sure, convergence model is great and likely how it has to be done.
Its just a question of what is that
On 25 October 2013 23:23, Chris Behrens cbehr...@codestud.com wrote:
On Oct 25, 2013, at 3:46 AM, Day, Phil philip@hp.com wrote:
Hi Folks,
We're very occasionally seeing problems where a thread processing a create
hangs (and we've seen when taking to Cinder and Glance). Whilst those
I’d disagree that that – from a user perspective they should always be able to
delete an Instance regardless of its state, and the delete should always work
(or at least always appear to work to the user so that it no longer counts
against their quota, and they are no longer charged for it)
Except I think the CAP theorem would say that u can't accurately give back
there quota under thing like network partitions.
If nova-compute and the message queue have a network partition then u can
release there quota but can't actually delete there vms. I would actually
prefer to not release
Excerpts from Joshua Harlow's message of 2013-10-28 09:01:44 -0700:
Except I think the CAP theorem would say that u can't accurately give back
there quota under thing like network partitions.
If nova-compute and the message queue have a network partition then u can
release there quota but
I wish everything was so simple in distributed systems (like openstack) but
there are real boundaries and limits to doing something like a kill -9
correctly while retaining the consistency of the resources in your cloud (any
inconsistency costs someone $$$).
Sent from my really tiny device...
On 10/28/2013 10:30 AM, Joshua Harlow wrote:
I wish everything was so simple in distributed systems (like
openstack) but there are real boundaries and limits to doing
something like a kill -9 correctly while retaining the consistency
of the resources in your cloud (any inconsistency costs
But there is a difference here that I think needs to be clear.
Releasing the resources from nova (in the current way its done) means
another individual can take those resources and that causes
inconsistencies (bad for deployer).
I think we talked about how we can make this better by putting the
Sure, convergence model is great and likely how it has to be done.
Its just a question of what is that convergence model :)
I agree that its bad customer service to say 'yes u tried to delete it but
I am charging u anyway' but I think the difference is that the user
actually still has access to
On 10/28/2013 12:01 PM, Joshua Harlow wrote:
But there is a difference here that I think needs to be clear.
Releasing the resources from nova (in the current way its done) means
another individual can take those resources and that causes
inconsistencies (bad for deployer).
I think we talked
An idea that others and I are having for a similar use case in cinder (or it
appears to be similar).
If there was a well defined state machine/s in nova with well defined and
managed transitions between states then it seems like this state machine could
resume on failure as well as be
+1
Regards,
Alex
Joshua Harlow harlo...@yahoo-inc.com wrote on 26/10/2013 09:29:03 AM:
An idea that others and I are having for a similar use case in
cinder (or it appears to be similar).
If there was a well defined state machine/s in nova with well
defined and managed transitions
Deletes should only be allowed when the vm is in a power off state. This will
allow consistent state transition.
Thanks
Al
On Oct 26, 2013, at 8:55 AM, Joshua Harlow harlo...@yahoo-inc.com wrote:
I think I will try to have a unconference at the HK summit about ideas the
cinder developers
Potentially,
Although I think the lack of formalization and visibility (and the ability to
easily change its transitions) into the state machine is at this point causing
part of this pain.
If the state machine was well defined (and adjustable - to a degree...) then
you could imagine only
This is a bit off topic , but in general it seems to me that the state
transitions as you said are not clearly defined for many openstack components.
Is there any effort underway to define these? As the software gets bigger and
bigger this will help both developers and operators.
Thanks
There is at least 1 such effort being discussed in cinder, other projects I can
not say. I am hoping to gain more traction there as taskflow[1] I think can
provide (or help provide) a foundation to help here. Taskflow itself has a well
defined state machine [2]. But it's in the end up to the
Hi Folks,
We're very occasionally seeing problems where a thread processing a create
hangs (and we've seen when taking to Cinder and Glance). Whilst those issues
need to be hunted down in their own rights, they do show up what seems to me to
be a weakness in the processing of delete requests
On 25 October 2013 23:46, Day, Phil philip@hp.com wrote:
Hi Folks,
We're very occasionally seeing problems where a thread processing a create
hangs (and we've seen when taking to Cinder and Glance). Whilst those issues
need to be hunted down in their own rights, they do show up what
There may be multiple API servers; global state in an API server seems fraught
with issues.
No, the state would be in the DB (it would either be a task_state of Deleteing
or some new delete_stated_at timestamp
I agree that i) is nice and simple - it just has the minor risks that the
delete
Excerpts from Day, Phil's message of 2013-10-25 03:46:01 -0700:
Hi Folks,
We're very occasionally seeing problems where a thread processing a create
hangs (and we've seen when taking to Cinder and Glance). Whilst those issues
need to be hunted down in their own rights, they do show up
-Original Message-
From: Clint Byrum [mailto:cl...@fewbar.com]
Sent: 25 October 2013 17:05
To: openstack-dev
Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] Thoughs please on how to address a
problem with mutliple deletes leading to a nova-compute thread pool
problem
Excerpts from Day,
On Oct 25, 2013, at 3:46 AM, Day, Phil philip@hp.com wrote:
Hi Folks,
We're very occasionally seeing problems where a thread processing a create
hangs (and we've seen when taking to Cinder and Glance). Whilst those issues
need to be hunted down in their own rights, they do show up
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