Re: [openstack-dev] [oslo] Some Thoughts on Log Message ID Generation Blueprint
On 04/07/2014 11:57 PM, Peng Wu wrote: Thanks for the comments. Maybe we could just search the English log. :-) Right, but the problem is that the English log is not guaranteed to remain the same. An (extremely contrived) example: Say we have a log message like Failed to not find entity: %s That's really confusing because of the double negative. So we change it to Found an unexpected entity: %s. It's highly unlikely that a search for the changed message is going to also turn up a blog post or whatever about the first message. Granted the example is contrived, but I've seen just that sort of log message rewording done in real changes too. Maybe the dual logging is enough for everyone, but I don't think it addresses all of the reasons for wanting message ids so I don't think we can just say we're not going to do message ids because of it. It's perfectly valid to say we're not going to do message ids because no one wants them enough to actually implement them though. :-) But I just find it is hard to meet all requirements of log message id, Just some thought that we can avoid the message id generation by using the English log. For debug purpose, we can just read the English log. Regards, Peng Wu On Mon, 2014-04-07 at 11:19 -0500, Ben Nemec wrote: On 04/03/2014 10:19 PM, Peng Wu wrote: Hi, Recently I read the Separate translation domain for log messages blueprint[1], and I found that we can store both English Message Log and Translated Message Log with some configurations. I am an i18n Software Engineer, and we are thinking about Add message IDs for log messages blueprint[2]. My thought is that if we can store both English Message Log and Translated Message Log, we can skip the need of Log Message ID Generation. I also commented the Add message IDs for log messages blueprint[2]. If the servers always store English Log Messages, maybe we don't need the Add message IDs for log messages blueprint[2] any more. Feel free to comment this proposal. Thanks, Peng Wu Refer URL: [1] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/oslo/+spec/log-messages-translation-domain [2] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/oslo/+spec/log-messages-id As I recall, there were more reasons for log message ids than just i18n issues. There's also the fact that an error message might change significantly from one release to another, but if it's still addressing the same issue then the message id could be left alone so searching for it would still return relevant results, regardless of the release. That said, I don't know if anyone is actually working on the message id blueprint so I'm not sure how much it matters at this point. :-) -Ben ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [oslo] Some Thoughts on Log Message ID Generation Blueprint
Thanks, I see. :-) On Tue, 2014-04-08 at 10:23 -0500, Ben Nemec wrote: On 04/07/2014 11:57 PM, Peng Wu wrote: Thanks for the comments. Maybe we could just search the English log. :-) Right, but the problem is that the English log is not guaranteed to remain the same. An (extremely contrived) example: Say we have a log message like Failed to not find entity: %s That's really confusing because of the double negative. So we change it to Found an unexpected entity: %s. It's highly unlikely that a search for the changed message is going to also turn up a blog post or whatever about the first message. Granted the example is contrived, but I've seen just that sort of log message rewording done in real changes too. Maybe the dual logging is enough for everyone, but I don't think it addresses all of the reasons for wanting message ids so I don't think we can just say we're not going to do message ids because of it. It's perfectly valid to say we're not going to do message ids because no one wants them enough to actually implement them though. :-) But I just find it is hard to meet all requirements of log message id, Just some thought that we can avoid the message id generation by using the English log. For debug purpose, we can just read the English log. Regards, Peng Wu On Mon, 2014-04-07 at 11:19 -0500, Ben Nemec wrote: On 04/03/2014 10:19 PM, Peng Wu wrote: Hi, Recently I read the Separate translation domain for log messages blueprint[1], and I found that we can store both English Message Log and Translated Message Log with some configurations. I am an i18n Software Engineer, and we are thinking about Add message IDs for log messages blueprint[2]. My thought is that if we can store both English Message Log and Translated Message Log, we can skip the need of Log Message ID Generation. I also commented the Add message IDs for log messages blueprint[2]. If the servers always store English Log Messages, maybe we don't need the Add message IDs for log messages blueprint[2] any more. Feel free to comment this proposal. Thanks, Peng Wu Refer URL: [1] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/oslo/+spec/log-messages-translation-domain [2] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/oslo/+spec/log-messages-id As I recall, there were more reasons for log message ids than just i18n issues. There's also the fact that an error message might change significantly from one release to another, but if it's still addressing the same issue then the message id could be left alone so searching for it would still return relevant results, regardless of the release. That said, I don't know if anyone is actually working on the message id blueprint so I'm not sure how much it matters at this point. :-) -Ben ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [oslo] Some Thoughts on Log Message ID Generation Blueprint
On 04/03/2014 10:19 PM, Peng Wu wrote: Hi, Recently I read the Separate translation domain for log messages blueprint[1], and I found that we can store both English Message Log and Translated Message Log with some configurations. I am an i18n Software Engineer, and we are thinking about Add message IDs for log messages blueprint[2]. My thought is that if we can store both English Message Log and Translated Message Log, we can skip the need of Log Message ID Generation. I also commented the Add message IDs for log messages blueprint[2]. If the servers always store English Log Messages, maybe we don't need the Add message IDs for log messages blueprint[2] any more. Feel free to comment this proposal. Thanks, Peng Wu Refer URL: [1] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/oslo/+spec/log-messages-translation-domain [2] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/oslo/+spec/log-messages-id As I recall, there were more reasons for log message ids than just i18n issues. There's also the fact that an error message might change significantly from one release to another, but if it's still addressing the same issue then the message id could be left alone so searching for it would still return relevant results, regardless of the release. That said, I don't know if anyone is actually working on the message id blueprint so I'm not sure how much it matters at this point. :-) -Ben ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [oslo] Some Thoughts on Log Message ID Generation Blueprint
Thanks for the comments. Maybe we could just search the English log. :-) But I just find it is hard to meet all requirements of log message id, Just some thought that we can avoid the message id generation by using the English log. For debug purpose, we can just read the English log. Regards, Peng Wu On Mon, 2014-04-07 at 11:19 -0500, Ben Nemec wrote: On 04/03/2014 10:19 PM, Peng Wu wrote: Hi, Recently I read the Separate translation domain for log messages blueprint[1], and I found that we can store both English Message Log and Translated Message Log with some configurations. I am an i18n Software Engineer, and we are thinking about Add message IDs for log messages blueprint[2]. My thought is that if we can store both English Message Log and Translated Message Log, we can skip the need of Log Message ID Generation. I also commented the Add message IDs for log messages blueprint[2]. If the servers always store English Log Messages, maybe we don't need the Add message IDs for log messages blueprint[2] any more. Feel free to comment this proposal. Thanks, Peng Wu Refer URL: [1] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/oslo/+spec/log-messages-translation-domain [2] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/oslo/+spec/log-messages-id As I recall, there were more reasons for log message ids than just i18n issues. There's also the fact that an error message might change significantly from one release to another, but if it's still addressing the same issue then the message id could be left alone so searching for it would still return relevant results, regardless of the release. That said, I don't know if anyone is actually working on the message id blueprint so I'm not sure how much it matters at this point. :-) -Ben ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
