Re: [openstack-dev] Encouraging first-time contributors through bug tags/reviews

2015-12-01 Thread Thierry Carrez 
sean roberts wrote:
> Being successful at your first patch for most people means that their
> first effort is different than an a regular patch. 
> 
> Identifying abandoned work more quickly is good. It doesn't help the
> first timer. 
> 
> Tagging low hanging fruit for first timers I like. I'm recommending we
> add a mentor as part of the idea, so the project mentor is responsible
> for the work and the first timer learning. 

I also tend to prefer mentoring to posting detailed instructions to
follow to fix a given bug. The issues you can encounter while pushing a
patch are varied, so a bit more hand-holding is valuable. It also makes
for a better inter-personal experience to interact with a human on IRC
vs. interacting with step-by-step instructions posted on a bug.

So low-hanging-fruit tagging + available mentors sounds like a powerful
combination.

-- 
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Re: [openstack-dev] Encouraging first-time contributors through bug tags/reviews

2015-11-30 Thread Doug Hellmann 
Excerpts from sean roberts's message of 2015-11-30 07:57:54 -0800:
> How about:
> First timers assign a bug to a mentor and the mentor takes responsibility
> for the first timer learning from the bug to completion.

That would mean the learning process is different from what we want the
regular process to be.

If the problem is identifying "In Progress" bugs that are actually not
being worked on, then let's figure out a way to make that easier.
sdague's point about the auto-abandon process may help. We could query
gerrit for "stale" reviews that would have met the old abandon
requirements and that refer to bugs, for example. Using that
information, someone could follow-up with the patch owner to see if it
is actually abandoned, before changing the bug status or encouraging the
owner to abandon the patch.

> 
> Per project, a few people volunteer themselves as mentors. As easy as
> responding to [project][mentor] emails.
> 
> On Monday, November 30, 2015, Sean Dague  wrote:
> 
> > On 11/25/2015 03:22 PM, Shamail wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > >> On Nov 25, 2015, at 11:05 PM, Doug Hellmann  > > wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Excerpts from Shamail Tahir's message of 2015-11-25 09:15:54 -0500:
> > >>> Hi everyone,
> > >>>
> > >>> Andrew Mitry recently shared a medium post[1] by Kent C. Dobbs which
> > >>> discusses how one open-source project is encouraging contributions by
> > new
> > >>> open-source contributors through a combination of a special tag (which
> > is
> > >>> associated with work that is needed but can only be completed by
> > someone
> > >>> who is a first-time contributor) and helpful comments in the review
> > phase
> > >>> to ensure the contribution(s) eventually get merged.
> > >>>
> > >>> While reading the article, I immediately thought about our
> > >>> low-hanging-fruit bug tag which is used for a very similar purpose in
> > "bug
> > >>> fixing" section of  the "how to contribute" page[2].  The
> > low-hanging-fruit
> > >>> tag is used to identify items that are generally suitable for
> > first-time or
> > >>> beginner contributors but, in reality, anyone can pick them up.
> > >>>
> > >>> I wanted to propose a new tag (or even changing the, existing,
> > low-hanging
> > >>> fruit tag) that would identify items that we are reserving for
> > first-time
> > >>> OpenStack contributors (e.g. a patch-set for the item submitted by
> > someone
> > >>> who is not a first time contributor would be rejected)... The same
> > article
> > >>> that Andrew shared mentions using an "up-for-grabs" tag which also
> > >>> populates the items at up-for-grabs[3] (a site where people looking to
> > >>> start working on open-source projects see entry-level items from
> > multiple
> > >>> projects).  If we move forward with an exclusive tag for first-timers
> > then
> > >>> it would be nice if we could use the up-for-grabs tag so that OpenStack
> > >>> also shows up on the list too.  Please let me know if this change
> > should be
> > >>> proposed elsewhere, the tags are maintained in launchpad and the wiki I
> > >>> found related to bug tags[4] didn't indicate a procedure for
> > submitting a
> > >>> change proposal.
> > >>
> > >> I like the idea of making bugs suitable for first-timers more
> > >> discoverable. I'm not sure we need to *reserve* any bugs for any class
> > >> of contributor. What benefit do you think that provides?
> > > I would have to defer to additional feedback here...
> > >
> > > My own perspective from when I was doing my first contribution is that
> > it was hard to find active "low-hanging-fruit" items.  Most were already
> > work-in-progress or assigned.
> >
> > This was a direct consequence of us dropping the auto-abandoning of old
> > code reviews in gerrit. When a review is abandoned the bug is flipped
> > back to New instead of In Progress.
> >
> > I found quite often people go and gobble up bugs assigning them to
> > themselves, but don't make real progress on them. Then new contributors
> > show up, and don't work on any of those issues because our tools say
> > someone is already on top of it.
> >
> > -Sean
> >
> > --
> > Sean Dague
> > http://dague.net
> >
> > __
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> >
> 

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Re: [openstack-dev] Encouraging first-time contributors through bug tags/reviews

2015-11-30 Thread sean roberts 
How about:
First timers assign a bug to a mentor and the mentor takes responsibility
for the first timer learning from the bug to completion.

Per project, a few people volunteer themselves as mentors. As easy as
responding to [project][mentor] emails.

On Monday, November 30, 2015, Sean Dague  wrote:

> On 11/25/2015 03:22 PM, Shamail wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> >> On Nov 25, 2015, at 11:05 PM, Doug Hellmann  > wrote:
> >>
> >> Excerpts from Shamail Tahir's message of 2015-11-25 09:15:54 -0500:
> >>> Hi everyone,
> >>>
> >>> Andrew Mitry recently shared a medium post[1] by Kent C. Dobbs which
> >>> discusses how one open-source project is encouraging contributions by
> new
> >>> open-source contributors through a combination of a special tag (which
> is
> >>> associated with work that is needed but can only be completed by
> someone
> >>> who is a first-time contributor) and helpful comments in the review
> phase
> >>> to ensure the contribution(s) eventually get merged.
> >>>
> >>> While reading the article, I immediately thought about our
> >>> low-hanging-fruit bug tag which is used for a very similar purpose in
> "bug
> >>> fixing" section of  the "how to contribute" page[2].  The
> low-hanging-fruit
> >>> tag is used to identify items that are generally suitable for
> first-time or
> >>> beginner contributors but, in reality, anyone can pick them up.
> >>>
> >>> I wanted to propose a new tag (or even changing the, existing,
> low-hanging
> >>> fruit tag) that would identify items that we are reserving for
> first-time
> >>> OpenStack contributors (e.g. a patch-set for the item submitted by
> someone
> >>> who is not a first time contributor would be rejected)... The same
> article
> >>> that Andrew shared mentions using an "up-for-grabs" tag which also
> >>> populates the items at up-for-grabs[3] (a site where people looking to
> >>> start working on open-source projects see entry-level items from
> multiple
> >>> projects).  If we move forward with an exclusive tag for first-timers
> then
> >>> it would be nice if we could use the up-for-grabs tag so that OpenStack
> >>> also shows up on the list too.  Please let me know if this change
> should be
> >>> proposed elsewhere, the tags are maintained in launchpad and the wiki I
> >>> found related to bug tags[4] didn't indicate a procedure for
> submitting a
> >>> change proposal.
> >>
> >> I like the idea of making bugs suitable for first-timers more
> >> discoverable. I'm not sure we need to *reserve* any bugs for any class
> >> of contributor. What benefit do you think that provides?
> > I would have to defer to additional feedback here...
> >
> > My own perspective from when I was doing my first contribution is that
> it was hard to find active "low-hanging-fruit" items.  Most were already
> work-in-progress or assigned.
>
> This was a direct consequence of us dropping the auto-abandoning of old
> code reviews in gerrit. When a review is abandoned the bug is flipped
> back to New instead of In Progress.
>
> I found quite often people go and gobble up bugs assigning them to
> themselves, but don't make real progress on them. Then new contributors
> show up, and don't work on any of those issues because our tools say
> someone is already on top of it.
>
> -Sean
>
> --
> Sean Dague
> http://dague.net
>
> __
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-- 
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Re: [openstack-dev] Encouraging first-time contributors through bug tags/reviews

2015-11-30 Thread sean roberts 
Being successful at your first patch for most people means that their first
effort is different than an a regular patch.

Identifying abandoned work more quickly is good. It doesn't help the first
timer.

Tagging low hanging fruit for first timers I like. I'm recommending we add
a mentor as part of the idea, so the project mentor is responsible for the
work and the first timer learning.

On Monday, November 30, 2015, Doug Hellmann  wrote:

> Excerpts from sean roberts's message of 2015-11-30 07:57:54 -0800:
> > How about:
> > First timers assign a bug to a mentor and the mentor takes responsibility
> > for the first timer learning from the bug to completion.
>
> That would mean the learning process is different from what we want the
> regular process to be.
>
> If the problem is identifying "In Progress" bugs that are actually not
> being worked on, then let's figure out a way to make that easier.
> sdague's point about the auto-abandon process may help. We could query
> gerrit for "stale" reviews that would have met the old abandon
> requirements and that refer to bugs, for example. Using that
> information, someone could follow-up with the patch owner to see if it
> is actually abandoned, before changing the bug status or encouraging the
> owner to abandon the patch.
>
> >
> > Per project, a few people volunteer themselves as mentors. As easy as
> > responding to [project][mentor] emails.
> >
> > On Monday, November 30, 2015, Sean Dague >
> wrote:
> >
> > > On 11/25/2015 03:22 PM, Shamail wrote:
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > >> On Nov 25, 2015, at 11:05 PM, Doug Hellmann  
> > > > wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> Excerpts from Shamail Tahir's message of 2015-11-25 09:15:54 -0500:
> > > >>> Hi everyone,
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Andrew Mitry recently shared a medium post[1] by Kent C. Dobbs
> which
> > > >>> discusses how one open-source project is encouraging contributions
> by
> > > new
> > > >>> open-source contributors through a combination of a special tag
> (which
> > > is
> > > >>> associated with work that is needed but can only be completed by
> > > someone
> > > >>> who is a first-time contributor) and helpful comments in the review
> > > phase
> > > >>> to ensure the contribution(s) eventually get merged.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> While reading the article, I immediately thought about our
> > > >>> low-hanging-fruit bug tag which is used for a very similar purpose
> in
> > > "bug
> > > >>> fixing" section of  the "how to contribute" page[2].  The
> > > low-hanging-fruit
> > > >>> tag is used to identify items that are generally suitable for
> > > first-time or
> > > >>> beginner contributors but, in reality, anyone can pick them up.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I wanted to propose a new tag (or even changing the, existing,
> > > low-hanging
> > > >>> fruit tag) that would identify items that we are reserving for
> > > first-time
> > > >>> OpenStack contributors (e.g. a patch-set for the item submitted by
> > > someone
> > > >>> who is not a first time contributor would be rejected)... The same
> > > article
> > > >>> that Andrew shared mentions using an "up-for-grabs" tag which also
> > > >>> populates the items at up-for-grabs[3] (a site where people
> looking to
> > > >>> start working on open-source projects see entry-level items from
> > > multiple
> > > >>> projects).  If we move forward with an exclusive tag for
> first-timers
> > > then
> > > >>> it would be nice if we could use the up-for-grabs tag so that
> OpenStack
> > > >>> also shows up on the list too.  Please let me know if this change
> > > should be
> > > >>> proposed elsewhere, the tags are maintained in launchpad and the
> wiki I
> > > >>> found related to bug tags[4] didn't indicate a procedure for
> > > submitting a
> > > >>> change proposal.
> > > >>
> > > >> I like the idea of making bugs suitable for first-timers more
> > > >> discoverable. I'm not sure we need to *reserve* any bugs for any
> class
> > > >> of contributor. What benefit do you think that provides?
> > > > I would have to defer to additional feedback here...
> > > >
> > > > My own perspective from when I was doing my first contribution is
> that
> > > it was hard to find active "low-hanging-fruit" items.  Most were
> already
> > > work-in-progress or assigned.
> > >
> > > This was a direct consequence of us dropping the auto-abandoning of old
> > > code reviews in gerrit. When a review is abandoned the bug is flipped
> > > back to New instead of In Progress.
> > >
> > > I found quite often people go and gobble up bugs assigning them to
> > > themselves, but don't make real progress on them. Then new contributors
> > > show up, and don't work on any of those issues because our tools say
> > > someone is already on top of it.
> > >
> > > -Sean
> > >
> > > --
> > > Sean Dague
> > > http://dague.net
> > >
> > >
>

Re: [openstack-dev] Encouraging first-time contributors through bug tags/reviews

2015-11-26 Thread Thierry Carrez 
Doug Hellmann wrote:
> Excerpts from Shamail's message of 2015-11-26 02:07:55 +0500:
>>
>>> On Nov 26, 2015, at 1:42 AM, Doug Hellmann  wrote:
>>>
>>> OK, reserving bugs for new contributors does reduce the number of
>>> people contending for them, but it doesn't eliminate the need to
>>> figure out if someone else is already working on a bug before you
>>> start. Encouraging folks to assign bugs to themselves when they start
>>> work is probably the best way to solve that.
>> +1, I think most do a good job at this.
>>
>> Where do you think is the appropriate place to formally ask for a new tag 
>> and/or reservations?  
> 
> This list is a good place to ask for a tag like that. It's also a good
> topic for the cross-project meetings.

Launchpad "tags" are per-project, so ideally you would find a pilot
project (or a few pilot projects) ready to play with a
"I-added-instructions-for-first-timers-to-follow" type tag. If those are
successful, we could then encourage every other project to adopt it too...

-- 
Thierry Carrez (ttx)

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Re: [openstack-dev] Encouraging first-time contributors through bug tags/reviews

2015-11-26 Thread Rossella Sblendido 



On 11/26/2015 10:40 AM, Thierry Carrez wrote:

Doug Hellmann wrote:

Excerpts from Shamail's message of 2015-11-26 02:07:55 +0500:



On Nov 26, 2015, at 1:42 AM, Doug Hellmann  wrote:

OK, reserving bugs for new contributors does reduce the number of
people contending for them, but it doesn't eliminate the need to
figure out if someone else is already working on a bug before you
start. Encouraging folks to assign bugs to themselves when they start
work is probably the best way to solve that.

+1, I think most do a good job at this.

Where do you think is the appropriate place to formally ask for a new tag 
and/or reservations?


This list is a good place to ask for a tag like that. It's also a good
topic for the cross-project meetings.


Launchpad "tags" are per-project, so ideally you would find a pilot
project (or a few pilot projects) ready to play with a
"I-added-instructions-for-first-timers-to-follow" type tag. If those are
successful, we could then encourage every other project to adopt it too...



I really like this idea. I was contacted many times by people who wanted 
to start contributing and had troubles finding a bug to fix.
low-hanging-fruit are not always so easy to understand for newbies even 
if they might be straightforward for experienced people. Another issue 
is that sometimes trivial bugs are fixed by experienced people. Which is 
not optimal. Somebody spends time filing a bug, editing the description 
and tagging it low-hanging-fruit, hoping that it will be taken by a 
newbie (there's no way to reserve a bug for newbies right now). Then 
it's taken by an experience contributor, :/ the reporter could have 
fixed it easily in the first place, without spending time adding a 
detailed description to it.


I'd like to help. Neutron could be one of the pilot project. I will 
mention that in the next Neutron team meeting :)


Rossella

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Re: [openstack-dev] Encouraging first-time contributors through bug tags/reviews

2015-11-26 Thread Shamail 


> On Nov 26, 2015, at 4:19 PM, Rossella Sblendido  wrote:
> 
> I'd like to help. Neutron could be one of the pilot project. I will mention 
> that in the next Neutron team meeting :)

Thank you!  If one, or more, projects pilot this concept... We could share the 
results at a future cross-project meeting and decide where to go from there.

Regards,
Shamail 
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Re: [openstack-dev] Encouraging first-time contributors through bug tags/reviews

2015-11-25 Thread Maish Saidel-Keesing 

This is an awesome idea!!!

On 11/25/15 16:15, Shamail Tahir wrote:

Hi everyone,

Andrew Mitry recently shared a medium post[1] by Kent C. Dobbs which 
discusses how one open-source project is encouraging contributions by 
new open-source contributors through a combination of a special tag 
(which is associated with work that is needed but can only be 
completed by someone who is a first-time contributor) and helpful 
comments in the review phase to ensure the contribution(s) eventually 
get merged.


While reading the article, I immediately thought about our 
low-hanging-fruit bug tag which is used for a very similar purpose in 
"bug fixing" section of  the "how to contribute" page[2].  The 
low-hanging-fruit tag is used to identify items that are generally 
suitable for first-time or beginner contributors but, in reality, 
anyone can pick them up.


I wanted to propose a new tag (or even changing the, existing, 
low-hanging fruit tag) that would identify items that we are reserving 
for first-time OpenStack contributors (e.g. a patch-set for the item 
submitted by someone who is not a first time contributor would be 
rejected)... The same article that Andrew shared mentions using an 
"up-for-grabs" tag which also populates the items at up-for-grabs[3] 
(a site where people looking to start working on open-source projects 
see entry-level items from multiple projects).  If we move forward 
with an exclusive tag for first-timers then it would be nice if we 
could use the up-for-grabs tag so that OpenStack also shows up on the 
list too.  Please let me know if this change should be proposed 
elsewhere, the tags are maintained in launchpad and the wiki I found 
related to bug tags[4] didn't indicate a procedure for submitting a 
change proposal.


Tyler Britten also suggested maybe even having a pool of reviewers who 
could monitor items being worked on that fall in this "first-timer" 
category who could further help the new contributors by helpful review 
comments and answering questions if the contributors get stuck on some 
part of the process.  Could this be the same people who helped make 
the upstream training[5] successful?  I look forward to thoughts on 
this matter.


[1] 
https://medium.com/@kentcdodds/first-timers-only-78281ea47455#.707dal290
[2] https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/How_To_Contribute#Bug_fixing 


[3] http://up-for-grabs.net/
[4] https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Bug_Tags
[5] http://docs.openstack.org/upstream-training/


--
Thanks,
Shamail Tahir
t: @ShamailXD
tz: Eastern Time


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Best Regards,
Maish Saidel-Keesing
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Re: [openstack-dev] Encouraging first-time contributors through bug tags/reviews

2015-11-25 Thread Doug Hellmann 
Excerpts from Shamail Tahir's message of 2015-11-25 09:15:54 -0500:
> Hi everyone,
> 
> Andrew Mitry recently shared a medium post[1] by Kent C. Dobbs which
> discusses how one open-source project is encouraging contributions by new
> open-source contributors through a combination of a special tag (which is
> associated with work that is needed but can only be completed by someone
> who is a first-time contributor) and helpful comments in the review phase
> to ensure the contribution(s) eventually get merged.
> 
> While reading the article, I immediately thought about our
> low-hanging-fruit bug tag which is used for a very similar purpose in "bug
> fixing" section of  the "how to contribute" page[2].  The low-hanging-fruit
> tag is used to identify items that are generally suitable for first-time or
> beginner contributors but, in reality, anyone can pick them up.
> 
> I wanted to propose a new tag (or even changing the, existing, low-hanging
> fruit tag) that would identify items that we are reserving for first-time
> OpenStack contributors (e.g. a patch-set for the item submitted by someone
> who is not a first time contributor would be rejected)... The same article
> that Andrew shared mentions using an "up-for-grabs" tag which also
> populates the items at up-for-grabs[3] (a site where people looking to
> start working on open-source projects see entry-level items from multiple
> projects).  If we move forward with an exclusive tag for first-timers then
> it would be nice if we could use the up-for-grabs tag so that OpenStack
> also shows up on the list too.  Please let me know if this change should be
> proposed elsewhere, the tags are maintained in launchpad and the wiki I
> found related to bug tags[4] didn't indicate a procedure for submitting a
> change proposal.

I like the idea of making bugs suitable for first-timers more
discoverable. I'm not sure we need to *reserve* any bugs for any class
of contributor. What benefit do you think that provides?

> 
> Tyler Britten also suggested maybe even having a pool of reviewers who
> could monitor items being worked on that fall in this "first-timer"
> category who could further help the new contributors by helpful review
> comments and answering questions if the contributors get stuck on some part
> of the process.  Could this be the same people who helped make the upstream
> training[5] successful?  I look forward to thoughts on this matter.

If we have volunteers willing to do this, that's great. It's not
obvious, but it is actually possible to query gerrit for reviews
from first-time contributors. A bot A watches for new patches leaves
a comment on any for which the submitter has not previously submitted
a patch. Querying for open reviews with comments from that bot is
straightforward once you know its gerrit id. For example, this URL
will show all open patches from first-time contributors submitted
to any repository:

https://review.openstack.org/#/q/reviewer:10068+is:open,n,z

Doug

> 
> [1] https://medium.com/@kentcdodds/first-timers-only-78281ea47455#.707dal290
> [2] https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/How_To_Contribute#Bug_fixing
> 
> [3] http://up-for-grabs.net/
> [4] https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Bug_Tags
> [5] http://docs.openstack.org/upstream-training/
> 

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Re: [openstack-dev] Encouraging first-time contributors through bug tags/reviews

2015-11-25 Thread Anthony Chow 
Have a tag for first time contributor is a great idea.

On the other hand we should not take out the "low hanging fruit" tag.  I
contribute to OpenStack on my spare time and in my current situation I can
only work on the low hanging fruits.  If the first time tag is replacing
the low hanging fruit then it will be more difficult for me to find bugs
that I can work on.

Thanks and everyone (in the U.S.) have a Happy Thanksgiving,

anthony.

On Wed, Nov 25, 2015 at 9:06 AM, Maish Saidel-Keesing 
wrote:

> This is an awesome idea!!!
>
> On 11/25/15 16:15, Shamail Tahir wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> Andrew Mitry recently shared a medium post[1] by Kent C. Dobbs which
> discusses how one open-source project is encouraging contributions by new
> open-source contributors through a combination of a special tag (which is
> associated with work that is needed but can only be completed by someone
> who is a first-time contributor) and helpful comments in the review phase
> to ensure the contribution(s) eventually get merged.
>
> While reading the article, I immediately thought about our
> low-hanging-fruit bug tag which is used for a very similar purpose in "bug
> fixing" section of  the "how to contribute" page[2].  The low-hanging-fruit
> tag is used to identify items that are generally suitable for first-time or
> beginner contributors but, in reality, anyone can pick them up.
>
> I wanted to propose a new tag (or even changing the, existing, low-hanging
> fruit tag) that would identify items that we are reserving for first-time
> OpenStack contributors (e.g. a patch-set for the item submitted by someone
> who is not a first time contributor would be rejected)... The same article
> that Andrew shared mentions using an "up-for-grabs" tag which also
> populates the items at up-for-grabs[3] (a site where people looking to
> start working on open-source projects see entry-level items from multiple
> projects).  If we move forward with an exclusive tag for first-timers then
> it would be nice if we could use the up-for-grabs tag so that OpenStack
> also shows up on the list too.  Please let me know if this change should be
> proposed elsewhere, the tags are maintained in launchpad and the wiki I
> found related to bug tags[4] didn't indicate a procedure for submitting a
> change proposal.
>
> Tyler Britten also suggested maybe even having a pool of reviewers who
> could monitor items being worked on that fall in this "first-timer"
> category who could further help the new contributors by helpful review
> comments and answering questions if the contributors get stuck on some part
> of the process.  Could this be the same people who helped make the upstream
> training[5] successful?  I look forward to thoughts on this matter.
>
> [1]
> https://medium.com/@kentcdodds/first-timers-only-78281ea47455#.707dal290
> [2] https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/How_To_Contribute#Bug_fixing
> 
> [3] http://up-for-grabs.net/
> [4] https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Bug_Tags
> [5] http://docs.openstack.org/upstream-training/
>
>
> --
> Thanks,
> Shamail Tahir
> t: @ShamailXD
> tz: Eastern Time
>
>
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> Best Regards,
> Maish Saidel-Keesing
>
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Re: [openstack-dev] Encouraging first-time contributors through bug tags/reviews

2015-11-25 Thread Shamail 
Hi,

> On Nov 25, 2015, at 10:51 PM, Anthony Chow  wrote:
> 
> Have a tag for first time contributor is a great idea.
> 
> On the other hand we should not take out the "low hanging fruit" tag.  I 
> contribute to OpenStack on my spare time and in my current situation I can 
> only work on the low hanging fruits.  If the first time tag is replacing the 
> low hanging fruit then it will be more difficult for me to find bugs that I 
> can work on.  
Great point. An additional tag probably makes sense in this scenario.
> 
> Thanks and everyone (in the U.S.) have a Happy Thanksgiving,
> 
> anthony.
> 
>> On Wed, Nov 25, 2015 at 9:06 AM, Maish Saidel-Keesing  
>> wrote:
>> This is an awesome idea!!!
>> 
>>> On 11/25/15 16:15, Shamail Tahir wrote:
>>> Hi everyone,
>>> 
>>> Andrew Mitry recently shared a medium post[1] by Kent C. Dobbs which 
>>> discusses how one open-source project is encouraging contributions by new 
>>> open-source contributors through a combination of a special tag (which is 
>>> associated with work that is needed but can only be completed by someone 
>>> who is a first-time contributor) and helpful comments in the review phase 
>>> to ensure the contribution(s) eventually get merged.
>>> 
>>> While reading the article, I immediately thought about our 
>>> low-hanging-fruit bug tag which is used for a very similar purpose in "bug 
>>> fixing" section of  the "how to contribute" page[2].  The low-hanging-fruit 
>>> tag is used to identify items that are generally suitable for first-time or 
>>> beginner contributors but, in reality, anyone can pick them up.  
>>> 
>>> I wanted to propose a new tag (or even changing the, existing, low-hanging 
>>> fruit tag) that would identify items that we are reserving for first-time 
>>> OpenStack contributors (e.g. a patch-set for the item submitted by someone 
>>> who is not a first time contributor would be rejected)... The same article 
>>> that Andrew shared mentions using an "up-for-grabs" tag which also 
>>> populates the items at up-for-grabs[3] (a site where people looking to 
>>> start working on open-source projects see entry-level items from multiple 
>>> projects).  If we move forward with an exclusive tag for first-timers then 
>>> it would be nice if we could use the up-for-grabs tag so that OpenStack 
>>> also shows up on the list too.  Please let me know if this change should be 
>>> proposed elsewhere, the tags are maintained in launchpad and the wiki I 
>>> found related to bug tags[4] didn't indicate a procedure for submitting a 
>>> change proposal.
>>> 
>>> Tyler Britten also suggested maybe even having a pool of reviewers who 
>>> could monitor items being worked on that fall in this "first-timer" 
>>> category who could further help the new contributors by helpful review 
>>> comments and answering questions if the contributors get stuck on some part 
>>> of the process.  Could this be the same people who helped make the upstream 
>>> training[5] successful?  I look forward to thoughts on this matter.
>>> 
>>> [1] https://medium.com/@kentcdodds/first-timers-only-78281ea47455#.707dal290
>>> [2] https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/How_To_Contribute#Bug_fixing
>>> [3] http://up-for-grabs.net/
>>> [4] https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Bug_Tags
>>> [5] http://docs.openstack.org/upstream-training/
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Shamail Tahir
>>> t: @ShamailXD
>>> tz: Eastern Time
>>> 
>>> 
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>>> Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe
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>> 
>> -- 
>> Best Regards,
>> Maish Saidel-Keesing
>> 
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Re: [openstack-dev] Encouraging first-time contributors through bug tags/reviews

2015-11-25 Thread Shamail 


> On Nov 26, 2015, at 1:42 AM, Doug Hellmann  wrote:
> 
> OK, reserving bugs for new contributors does reduce the number of
> people contending for them, but it doesn't eliminate the need to
> figure out if someone else is already working on a bug before you
> start. Encouraging folks to assign bugs to themselves when they start
> work is probably the best way to solve that.
+1, I think most do a good job at this.

Where do you think is the appropriate place to formally ask for a new tag 
and/or reservations?  

I'd also appreciate any feedback from the people who have worked on the 
upstream training before each summit... Did you experience any issues finding 
available items for the people to work on?  How do you guide the new 
contributors to help them discover low-hanging-fruit?

Thanks,
Shamail 


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Re: [openstack-dev] Encouraging first-time contributors through bug tags/reviews

2015-11-25 Thread Shamail 
Hi,

> On Nov 25, 2015, at 11:05 PM, Doug Hellmann  wrote:
> 
> Excerpts from Shamail Tahir's message of 2015-11-25 09:15:54 -0500:
>> Hi everyone,
>> 
>> Andrew Mitry recently shared a medium post[1] by Kent C. Dobbs which
>> discusses how one open-source project is encouraging contributions by new
>> open-source contributors through a combination of a special tag (which is
>> associated with work that is needed but can only be completed by someone
>> who is a first-time contributor) and helpful comments in the review phase
>> to ensure the contribution(s) eventually get merged.
>> 
>> While reading the article, I immediately thought about our
>> low-hanging-fruit bug tag which is used for a very similar purpose in "bug
>> fixing" section of  the "how to contribute" page[2].  The low-hanging-fruit
>> tag is used to identify items that are generally suitable for first-time or
>> beginner contributors but, in reality, anyone can pick them up.
>> 
>> I wanted to propose a new tag (or even changing the, existing, low-hanging
>> fruit tag) that would identify items that we are reserving for first-time
>> OpenStack contributors (e.g. a patch-set for the item submitted by someone
>> who is not a first time contributor would be rejected)... The same article
>> that Andrew shared mentions using an "up-for-grabs" tag which also
>> populates the items at up-for-grabs[3] (a site where people looking to
>> start working on open-source projects see entry-level items from multiple
>> projects).  If we move forward with an exclusive tag for first-timers then
>> it would be nice if we could use the up-for-grabs tag so that OpenStack
>> also shows up on the list too.  Please let me know if this change should be
>> proposed elsewhere, the tags are maintained in launchpad and the wiki I
>> found related to bug tags[4] didn't indicate a procedure for submitting a
>> change proposal.
> 
> I like the idea of making bugs suitable for first-timers more
> discoverable. I'm not sure we need to *reserve* any bugs for any class
> of contributor. What benefit do you think that provides?
I would have to defer to additional feedback here... 

My own perspective from when I was doing my first contribution is that it was 
hard to find active "low-hanging-fruit" items.  Most were already 
work-in-progress or assigned.

The idea was that having a reserved set of bugs would ensure that there was 
always something that could be discovered easily and would be available.   If 
we could make available low-hanging-fruit more discoverable then that would 
possibly mitigate the need for "reserved" bugs.  We have enough items to work 
on where availability shouldn't be an issue, just visibility.

https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack/+bugs?field.tag=low-hanging-fruit=status=0

> 
>> 
>> Tyler Britten also suggested maybe even having a pool of reviewers who
>> could monitor items being worked on that fall in this "first-timer"
>> category who could further help the new contributors by helpful review
>> comments and answering questions if the contributors get stuck on some part
>> of the process.  Could this be the same people who helped make the upstream
>> training[5] successful?  I look forward to thoughts on this matter.
> 
> If we have volunteers willing to do this, that's great. It's not
> obvious, but it is actually possible to query gerrit for reviews
> from first-time contributors. A bot A watches for new patches leaves
> a comment on any for which the submitter has not previously submitted
> a patch. Querying for open reviews with comments from that bot is
> straightforward once you know its gerrit id. For example, this URL
> will show all open patches from first-time contributors submitted
> to any repository:
> 
> https://review.openstack.org/#/q/reviewer:10068+is:open,n,z
Thanks Doug!  I'll definitely start monitoring the results of this query and 
help when possible.  It will be great if others do it too, the more the 
merrier.  

> 
> Doug
> 
>> 
>> [1] https://medium.com/@kentcdodds/first-timers-only-78281ea47455#.707dal290
>> [2] https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/How_To_Contribute#Bug_fixing
>> 
>> [3] http://up-for-grabs.net/
>> [4] https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Bug_Tags
>> [5] http://docs.openstack.org/upstream-training/
> 
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Re: [openstack-dev] Encouraging first-time contributors through bug tags/reviews

2015-11-25 Thread Doug Hellmann 
Excerpts from Shamail's message of 2015-11-26 01:22:48 +0500:
> Hi,
> 
> > On Nov 25, 2015, at 11:05 PM, Doug Hellmann  wrote:
> > 
> > Excerpts from Shamail Tahir's message of 2015-11-25 09:15:54 -0500:
> >> Hi everyone,
> >> 
> >> Andrew Mitry recently shared a medium post[1] by Kent C. Dobbs which
> >> discusses how one open-source project is encouraging contributions by new
> >> open-source contributors through a combination of a special tag (which is
> >> associated with work that is needed but can only be completed by someone
> >> who is a first-time contributor) and helpful comments in the review phase
> >> to ensure the contribution(s) eventually get merged.
> >> 
> >> While reading the article, I immediately thought about our
> >> low-hanging-fruit bug tag which is used for a very similar purpose in "bug
> >> fixing" section of  the "how to contribute" page[2].  The low-hanging-fruit
> >> tag is used to identify items that are generally suitable for first-time or
> >> beginner contributors but, in reality, anyone can pick them up.
> >> 
> >> I wanted to propose a new tag (or even changing the, existing, low-hanging
> >> fruit tag) that would identify items that we are reserving for first-time
> >> OpenStack contributors (e.g. a patch-set for the item submitted by someone
> >> who is not a first time contributor would be rejected)... The same article
> >> that Andrew shared mentions using an "up-for-grabs" tag which also
> >> populates the items at up-for-grabs[3] (a site where people looking to
> >> start working on open-source projects see entry-level items from multiple
> >> projects).  If we move forward with an exclusive tag for first-timers then
> >> it would be nice if we could use the up-for-grabs tag so that OpenStack
> >> also shows up on the list too.  Please let me know if this change should be
> >> proposed elsewhere, the tags are maintained in launchpad and the wiki I
> >> found related to bug tags[4] didn't indicate a procedure for submitting a
> >> change proposal.
> > 
> > I like the idea of making bugs suitable for first-timers more
> > discoverable. I'm not sure we need to *reserve* any bugs for any class
> > of contributor. What benefit do you think that provides?
> I would have to defer to additional feedback here... 
> 
> My own perspective from when I was doing my first contribution is that it was 
> hard to find active "low-hanging-fruit" items.  Most were already 
> work-in-progress or assigned.
> 
> The idea was that having a reserved set of bugs would ensure that there was 
> always something that could be discovered easily and would be available.   If 
> we could make available low-hanging-fruit more discoverable then that would 
> possibly mitigate the need for "reserved" bugs.  We have enough items to work 
> on where availability shouldn't be an issue, just visibility.
> 
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack/+bugs?field.tag=low-hanging-fruit=status=0

OK, reserving bugs for new contributors does reduce the number of
people contending for them, but it doesn't eliminate the need to
figure out if someone else is already working on a bug before you
start. Encouraging folks to assign bugs to themselves when they start
work is probably the best way to solve that.

> 
> > 
> >> 
> >> Tyler Britten also suggested maybe even having a pool of reviewers who
> >> could monitor items being worked on that fall in this "first-timer"
> >> category who could further help the new contributors by helpful review
> >> comments and answering questions if the contributors get stuck on some part
> >> of the process.  Could this be the same people who helped make the upstream
> >> training[5] successful?  I look forward to thoughts on this matter.
> > 
> > If we have volunteers willing to do this, that's great. It's not
> > obvious, but it is actually possible to query gerrit for reviews
> > from first-time contributors. A bot A watches for new patches leaves
> > a comment on any for which the submitter has not previously submitted
> > a patch. Querying for open reviews with comments from that bot is
> > straightforward once you know its gerrit id. For example, this URL
> > will show all open patches from first-time contributors submitted
> > to any repository:
> > 
> > https://review.openstack.org/#/q/reviewer:10068+is:open,n,z
> Thanks Doug!  I'll definitely start monitoring the results of this query and 
> help when possible.  It will be great if others do it too, the more the 
> merrier.  
> 
> > 
> > Doug
> > 
> >> 
> >> [1] 
> >> https://medium.com/@kentcdodds/first-timers-only-78281ea47455#.707dal290
> >> [2] https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/How_To_Contribute#Bug_fixing
> >> 
> >> [3] http://up-for-grabs.net/
> >> [4] https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Bug_Tags
> >> [5] http://docs.openstack.org/upstream-training/
> > 
> > __
> >

Re: [openstack-dev] Encouraging first-time contributors through bug tags/reviews

2015-11-25 Thread Doug Hellmann 
Excerpts from Shamail's message of 2015-11-26 02:07:55 +0500:
> 
> > On Nov 26, 2015, at 1:42 AM, Doug Hellmann  wrote:
> > 
> > OK, reserving bugs for new contributors does reduce the number of
> > people contending for them, but it doesn't eliminate the need to
> > figure out if someone else is already working on a bug before you
> > start. Encouraging folks to assign bugs to themselves when they start
> > work is probably the best way to solve that.
> +1, I think most do a good job at this.
> 
> Where do you think is the appropriate place to formally ask for a new tag 
> and/or reservations?  

This list is a good place to ask for a tag like that. It's also a good
topic for the cross-project meetings.

> 
> I'd also appreciate any feedback from the people who have worked on the 
> upstream training before each summit... Did you experience any issues finding 
> available items for the people to work on?  How do you guide the new 
> contributors to help them discover low-hanging-fruit?
> 
> Thanks,
> Shamail 
> 

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[openstack-dev] Encouraging first-time contributors through bug tags/reviews

2015-11-25 Thread Shamail Tahir 
Hi everyone,

Andrew Mitry recently shared a medium post[1] by Kent C. Dobbs which
discusses how one open-source project is encouraging contributions by new
open-source contributors through a combination of a special tag (which is
associated with work that is needed but can only be completed by someone
who is a first-time contributor) and helpful comments in the review phase
to ensure the contribution(s) eventually get merged.

While reading the article, I immediately thought about our
low-hanging-fruit bug tag which is used for a very similar purpose in "bug
fixing" section of  the "how to contribute" page[2].  The low-hanging-fruit
tag is used to identify items that are generally suitable for first-time or
beginner contributors but, in reality, anyone can pick them up.

I wanted to propose a new tag (or even changing the, existing, low-hanging
fruit tag) that would identify items that we are reserving for first-time
OpenStack contributors (e.g. a patch-set for the item submitted by someone
who is not a first time contributor would be rejected)... The same article
that Andrew shared mentions using an "up-for-grabs" tag which also
populates the items at up-for-grabs[3] (a site where people looking to
start working on open-source projects see entry-level items from multiple
projects).  If we move forward with an exclusive tag for first-timers then
it would be nice if we could use the up-for-grabs tag so that OpenStack
also shows up on the list too.  Please let me know if this change should be
proposed elsewhere, the tags are maintained in launchpad and the wiki I
found related to bug tags[4] didn't indicate a procedure for submitting a
change proposal.

Tyler Britten also suggested maybe even having a pool of reviewers who
could monitor items being worked on that fall in this "first-timer"
category who could further help the new contributors by helpful review
comments and answering questions if the contributors get stuck on some part
of the process.  Could this be the same people who helped make the upstream
training[5] successful?  I look forward to thoughts on this matter.

[1] https://medium.com/@kentcdodds/first-timers-only-78281ea47455#.707dal290
[2] https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/How_To_Contribute#Bug_fixing

[3] http://up-for-grabs.net/
[4] https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Bug_Tags
[5] http://docs.openstack.org/upstream-training/


-- 
Thanks,
Shamail Tahir
t: @ShamailXD
tz: Eastern Time
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