[openstack-dev] [Solumn] Suggestion about usage of mailing lists

2013-12-04 Thread Boris Pavlovic
Guys,

I really appreciate that all discussion are real open, and you are doing a
great job, discussing all arch stuff of the project. But for such things
there are:
1) IRC chats
2) WIKI pages
3) ehterpads

E.g. in Rally we have 1 page:
https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/Rally_Main that contains all important
information about:
1) RoadMaps
2) Links to active discussions
3) Current Active and Open Tasks
So everybody is able to discuss what he want with the rest of the project
community, without tons of emails..

Could I ask you guys to send emails only about:
1) Releases
2) Major changes and news
3) Questions
4) Incubation stuff
5) Integration with other projects

And avoid discussing every piece of arch in mailing list. Because if  each
project will start to discuss all arch stuff in mailing list, we will have
billions of emails per minute in openstack-dev.


Sorry for this email, and thank you for understanding.

Best regards,
Boris Pavlovic
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Re: [openstack-dev] [Solumn] Suggestion about usage of mailing lists

2013-12-04 Thread Russell Bryant
On 12/04/2013 05:07 PM, Boris Pavlovic wrote:
 Guys, 
 
 I really appreciate that all discussion are real open, and you are doing
 a great job, discussing all arch stuff of the project. But for such
 things there are:
 1) IRC chats
 2) WIKI pages
 3) ehterpads 
 
 E.g. in Rally we have 1 page:
 https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/Rally_Main that contains all important
 information about:
 1) RoadMaps
 2) Links to active discussions
 3) Current Active and Open Tasks
 So everybody is able to discuss what he want with the rest of the
 project community, without tons of emails..
 
 Could I ask you guys to send emails only about:
 1) Releases
 2) Major changes and news
 3) Questions 
 4) Incubation stuff 
 5) Integration with other projects
 
 And avoid discussing every piece of arch in mailing list. Because if
  each project will start to discuss all arch stuff in mailing list, we
 will have billions of emails per minute in openstack-dev.  
 
 
 Sorry for this email, and thank you for understanding. 

I have pretty much the exact opposite opinion of what you expressed here.

If you don't want to see it, please use filters or only subscribe to the
topics you care about.

Thanks,

-- 
Russell Bryant

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Re: [openstack-dev] [Solumn] Suggestion about usage of mailing lists

2013-12-04 Thread Adrian Otto
Boris,

Thanks for expressing your concern about this. For those reading the Solum 
topic on this list, we really want this to be a community building resource 
were we are free to discuss ideas and as a primary mechanism for gauging 
consensus. Applying restrictions to how the list is used by project 
contributors will actually limit discussion and reduce our level of engagement. 
That's just bad.

Solum is in a rapid growth phase, and lots of discussion is required, including 
coordination of our design efforts. There are many divisions to be made, and 
even with three hours of scheduled meetings every week, there is just not 
enough time to make them all on IRC. We are treating the ML as a first class 
resource to make decisions that are not practical to make interactively in our 
regularly scheduled meetings. This is one of the peculiarities of starting a 
widely collaborative project from scratch, and sourcing input from a very 
diverse team.

We do have a wiki page where people can find recurring meeting times, and the 
schedule for things once scheduled. Please recognize that schedules have been 
changing as new working groups are forming, which is requiring us to coordinate 
them by email.

If what you really want is to ignore everything but major project 
announcements, I suggest you filter out [Solum] on openstack-dev and look for 
announcement messages on the regular openstack mailing list when we begin to 
engage the user community. That way you can clue in from time to time. We can 
also post a project status section on the wiki so you can get a sense of it at 
a glance. That's on my to-do list.

Lot's of meaty email on this topic is a good thing, not a bad thing.

Adrian

On Dec 4, 2013, at 2:07 PM, Boris Pavlovic 
bpavlo...@mirantis.commailto:bpavlo...@mirantis.com
 wrote:

Guys,

I really appreciate that all discussion are real open, and you are doing a 
great job, discussing all arch stuff of the project. But for such things there 
are:
1) IRC chats
2) WIKI pages
3) ehterpads

E.g. in Rally we have 1 page:
https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/Rally_Main that contains all important 
information about:
1) RoadMaps
2) Links to active discussions
3) Current Active and Open Tasks
So everybody is able to discuss what he want with the rest of the project 
community, without tons of emails..

Could I ask you guys to send emails only about:
1) Releases
2) Major changes and news
3) Questions
4) Incubation stuff
5) Integration with other projects

And avoid discussing every piece of arch in mailing list. Because if  each 
project will start to discuss all arch stuff in mailing list, we will have 
billions of emails per minute in openstack-dev.


Sorry for this email, and thank you for understanding.

Best regards,
Boris Pavlovic
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Re: [openstack-dev] [Solumn] Suggestion about usage of mailing lists

2013-12-04 Thread Boris Pavlovic
Russell,

Actually what I said is not only related to Solumn or any other project.

Main idea of it was that, well structured etherpads are much better
instrument for such discussions.

Do you disagree with this also?


Best regards,
Boris Pavlovic


On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 2:12 AM, Russell Bryant rbry...@redhat.com wrote:

 On 12/04/2013 05:07 PM, Boris Pavlovic wrote:
  Guys,
 
  I really appreciate that all discussion are real open, and you are doing
  a great job, discussing all arch stuff of the project. But for such
  things there are:
  1) IRC chats
  2) WIKI pages
  3) ehterpads
 
  E.g. in Rally we have 1 page:
  https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/Rally_Main that contains all important
  information about:
  1) RoadMaps
  2) Links to active discussions
  3) Current Active and Open Tasks
  So everybody is able to discuss what he want with the rest of the
  project community, without tons of emails..
 
  Could I ask you guys to send emails only about:
  1) Releases
  2) Major changes and news
  3) Questions
  4) Incubation stuff
  5) Integration with other projects
 
  And avoid discussing every piece of arch in mailing list. Because if
   each project will start to discuss all arch stuff in mailing list, we
  will have billions of emails per minute in openstack-dev.
 
 
  Sorry for this email, and thank you for understanding.

 I have pretty much the exact opposite opinion of what you expressed here.

 If you don't want to see it, please use filters or only subscribe to the
 topics you care about.

 Thanks,

 --
 Russell Bryant

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Re: [openstack-dev] [Solumn] Suggestion about usage of mailing lists

2013-12-04 Thread Robert Collins
On 5 December 2013 11:39, Boris Pavlovic bpavlo...@mirantis.com wrote:
 Russell,

 Actually what I said is not only related to Solumn or any other project.

 Main idea of it was that, well structured etherpads are much better
 instrument for such discussions.

 Do you disagree with this also?

I disagree with it.

I think /discussion/ in a mailing list is a great way to get broad input.
IRC gets narrow - whoever is on at the time - input
etherpads get very little input *unless* you reach out over IRC and
lists to get the input

Etherpads are very good for *assembling* the result of discussions and
debugging plans and so forth.

Wiki pages are great for doing adhoc manuals and living
google-searchable reference material.

IMNSHO.

-Rob

-- 
Robert Collins rbtcoll...@hp.com
Distinguished Technologist
HP Converged Cloud

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Re: [openstack-dev] [Solumn] Suggestion about usage of mailing lists

2013-12-04 Thread Boris Pavlovic
All,

Thank you guys for your opinion.

As a conclusion of this thread, I think that I shouldn't hesitate to raise
all discussion about Rally in mailing list also.. Right?


Best regards,
Boris Pavlovic



On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 2:42 AM, Robert Collins robe...@robertcollins.netwrote:

 On 5 December 2013 11:39, Boris Pavlovic bpavlo...@mirantis.com wrote:
  Russell,
 
  Actually what I said is not only related to Solumn or any other project.
 
  Main idea of it was that, well structured etherpads are much better
  instrument for such discussions.
 
  Do you disagree with this also?

 I disagree with it.

 I think /discussion/ in a mailing list is a great way to get broad input.
 IRC gets narrow - whoever is on at the time - input
 etherpads get very little input *unless* you reach out over IRC and
 lists to get the input

 Etherpads are very good for *assembling* the result of discussions and
 debugging plans and so forth.

 Wiki pages are great for doing adhoc manuals and living
 google-searchable reference material.

 IMNSHO.

 -Rob

 --
 Robert Collins rbtcoll...@hp.com
 Distinguished Technologist
 HP Converged Cloud

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Re: [openstack-dev] [Solumn] Suggestion about usage of mailing lists

2013-12-04 Thread Adrian Otto
Boris,

On Dec 4, 2013, at 2:53 PM, Boris Pavlovic 
bpavlo...@mirantis.commailto:bpavlo...@mirantis.com
 wrote:

All,

Thank you guys for your opinion.

As a conclusion of this thread, I think that I shouldn't hesitate to raise all 
discussion about Rally in mailing list also.. Right?

Yes, if your team feels that it would benefit from using the ML for 
collaboration, then thou should use it. If you prefer to use other tools, you 
can do that too.

Adrian



Best regards,
Boris Pavlovic



On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 2:42 AM, Robert Collins 
robe...@robertcollins.netmailto:robe...@robertcollins.net wrote:
On 5 December 2013 11:39, Boris Pavlovic 
bpavlo...@mirantis.commailto:bpavlo...@mirantis.com wrote:
 Russell,

 Actually what I said is not only related to Solumn or any other project.

 Main idea of it was that, well structured etherpads are much better
 instrument for such discussions.

 Do you disagree with this also?

I disagree with it.

I think /discussion/ in a mailing list is a great way to get broad input.
IRC gets narrow - whoever is on at the time - input
etherpads get very little input *unless* you reach out over IRC and
lists to get the input

Etherpads are very good for *assembling* the result of discussions and
debugging plans and so forth.

Wiki pages are great for doing adhoc manuals and living
google-searchable reference material.

IMNSHO.

-Rob

--
Robert Collins rbtcoll...@hp.commailto:rbtcoll...@hp.com
Distinguished Technologist
HP Converged Cloud

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