Re: [openstack-dev] Current list of confirmed PTL Candidates
Joshua Harlow wrote: +2 I think we need to as a community figure out why this is the case and figure out ways to make it not the case. Is it education around what a PTL is? Is it lack of time? Is it something else? In my view the PTL handles three roles: final decider on program-specific issues, release management liaison (for programs containing an integrated project) and program ambassador (natural point of contact). Note that the last two roles can be delegated. If you don't delegate anything then it's a lot of work, especially for programs with large integrated projects -- so if the current PTL does a great job and runs for election again, I suspect everyone else doesn't feel the urge to run against him. FWIW I don't think established PTLs mind being challenged at all. If anything, in the past this served to identify people interested in project management that could help in the PTL role and serve in a succession strategy. So you shouldn't fear to piss of the established PTL by challenging them :) -- Thierry Carrez (ttx) ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] Current list of confirmed PTL Candidates
On 25/09/13 11:29 +0200, Thierry Carrez wrote: Joshua Harlow wrote: +2 I think we need to as a community figure out why this is the case and figure out ways to make it not the case. Is it education around what a PTL is? Is it lack of time? Is it something else? In my view the PTL handles three roles: final decider on program-specific issues, release management liaison (for programs containing an integrated project) and program ambassador (natural point of contact). Note that the last two roles can be delegated. If you don't delegate anything then it's a lot of work, especially for programs with large integrated projects -- so if the current PTL does a great job and runs for election again, I suspect everyone else doesn't feel the urge to run against him. FWIW I don't think established PTLs mind being challenged at all. If anything, in the past this served to identify people interested in project management that could help in the PTL role and serve in a succession strategy. So you shouldn't fear to piss of the established PTL by challenging them :) I agree with Thierry here. The PTL role takes time and dedication which is the first thing people must be aware of before submitting their candidacy. I'm very happy with the job current PTLs have done, although I certainly don't have a 360 view. This should also be taken under consideration, before submitting a PTL candidacy, I expect people to ask themselves - and then share with others - what their plan is for the next development cycle, how they can improve the project they want to run for, etc. IMHO, the fact that there hasn't been many candidacies means that folks are happy with the work current PTLs have done and would love to have them around for another release cycle. However, this doesn't mean that folks that have submitted their candidacy are not happy with the current PTL and I'm very happy to see other folks willing to run for the PTL possition. I also think that PTLs have integrated the community at large in their PTL role and this has definitely helped folks to participate in the decision process. I've never thought about PTLs as final deciders but as the ones responsible for leading the team towards a decision that reflects the best interest of the project. That being said, I wouldn't worry that much for not seeing so many candidacies. I think this fits into the Lazy Consensus concept. Cheers, FF -- @flaper87 Flavio Percoco ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] Current list of confirmed PTL Candidates
I agree with all that u guys are saying and I think that the current PTL's have done a great job and I know that there is a lot to take under consideration when submitting a potential PTL candidacy and that its all about delegating, integrating, publicizing. I don't think any of that is in question. I am just more concerned about the 'diversity' issue, which looking at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/PTL_Elections_Fall_2013#Candidates is imho lacking (1 person elections aren't really elections). Now of course this may not be an immediate problem, but it does not seem to be the ideal situation a community would be in; I just imagine a community that has a multi-person elections (those multi-people don't need to be at each others throats, or even competitors, or any of that) and which thrives off the diversity of those different people. It just seems like something we can work on as a community, to ensure that there is diversity. -Josh On 9/25/13 4:31 AM, Flavio Percoco fla...@redhat.com wrote: On 25/09/13 11:29 +0200, Thierry Carrez wrote: Joshua Harlow wrote: +2 I think we need to as a community figure out why this is the case and figure out ways to make it not the case. Is it education around what a PTL is? Is it lack of time? Is it something else? In my view the PTL handles three roles: final decider on program-specific issues, release management liaison (for programs containing an integrated project) and program ambassador (natural point of contact). Note that the last two roles can be delegated. If you don't delegate anything then it's a lot of work, especially for programs with large integrated projects -- so if the current PTL does a great job and runs for election again, I suspect everyone else doesn't feel the urge to run against him. FWIW I don't think established PTLs mind being challenged at all. If anything, in the past this served to identify people interested in project management that could help in the PTL role and serve in a succession strategy. So you shouldn't fear to piss of the established PTL by challenging them :) I agree with Thierry here. The PTL role takes time and dedication which is the first thing people must be aware of before submitting their candidacy. I'm very happy with the job current PTLs have done, although I certainly don't have a 360 view. This should also be taken under consideration, before submitting a PTL candidacy, I expect people to ask themselves - and then share with others - what their plan is for the next development cycle, how they can improve the project they want to run for, etc. IMHO, the fact that there hasn't been many candidacies means that folks are happy with the work current PTLs have done and would love to have them around for another release cycle. However, this doesn't mean that folks that have submitted their candidacy are not happy with the current PTL and I'm very happy to see other folks willing to run for the PTL possition. I also think that PTLs have integrated the community at large in their PTL role and this has definitely helped folks to participate in the decision process. I've never thought about PTLs as final deciders but as the ones responsible for leading the team towards a decision that reflects the best interest of the project. That being said, I wouldn't worry that much for not seeing so many candidacies. I think this fits into the Lazy Consensus concept. Cheers, FF -- @flaper87 Flavio Percoco ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] Current list of confirmed PTL Candidates
It would be interesting to compare candidates with who stood previously. I also welcome elections but if the previous PTL is standing down and there is only one new candidate, that is more healthy than a single person consistently in the same position (although maybe not ideal). Are there any statistics as to a change of PTL (even if there is only one candidate standing) ? Tim -Original Message- From: Joshua Harlow [mailto:harlo...@yahoo-inc.com] Sent: 25 September 2013 20:15 To: OpenStack Development Mailing List; Flavio Percoco Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] Current list of confirmed PTL Candidates I agree with all that u guys are saying and I think that the current PTL's have done a great job and I know that there is a lot to take under consideration when submitting a potential PTL candidacy and that its all about delegating, integrating, publicizing. I don't think any of that is in question. I am just more concerned about the 'diversity' issue, which looking at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/PTL_Elections_Fall_2013#Candidates is imho lacking (1 person elections aren't really elections). Now of course this may not be an immediate problem, but it does not seem to be the ideal situation a community would be in; I just imagine a community that has a multi-person elections (those multi-people don't need to be at each others throats, or even competitors, or any of that) and which thrives off the diversity of those different people. It just seems like something we can work on as a community, to ensure that there is diversity. -Josh smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] Current list of confirmed PTL Candidates
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 12:15 PM, Joshua Harlow harlo...@yahoo-inc.comwrote: I agree with all that u guys are saying and I think that the current PTL's have done a great job and I know that there is a lot to take under consideration when submitting a potential PTL candidacy and that its all about delegating, integrating, publicizing. I don't think any of that is in question. I am just more concerned about the 'diversity' issue, which looking at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/PTL_Elections_Fall_2013#Candidates is imho lacking (1 person elections aren't really elections). Now of course this may not be an immediate problem, but it does not seem to be the ideal situation a community would be in; I just imagine a community that has a multi-person elections (those multi-people don't need to be at each others throats, or even competitors, or any of that) and which thrives off the diversity of those different people. It just seems like something we can work on as a community, to ensure that there is diversity. -Josh On 9/25/13 4:31 AM, Flavio Percoco fla...@redhat.com wrote: On 25/09/13 11:29 +0200, Thierry Carrez wrote: Joshua Harlow wrote: +2 I think we need to as a community figure out why this is the case and figure out ways to make it not the case. Is it education around what a PTL is? Is it lack of time? Is it something else? In my view the PTL handles three roles: final decider on program-specific issues, release management liaison (for programs containing an integrated project) and program ambassador (natural point of contact). Note that the last two roles can be delegated. If you don't delegate anything then it's a lot of work, especially for programs with large integrated projects -- so if the current PTL does a great job and runs for election again, I suspect everyone else doesn't feel the urge to run against him. FWIW I don't think established PTLs mind being challenged at all. If anything, in the past this served to identify people interested in project management that could help in the PTL role and serve in a succession strategy. So you shouldn't fear to piss of the established PTL by challenging them :) I agree with Thierry here. The PTL role takes time and dedication which is the first thing people must be aware of before submitting their candidacy. I'm very happy with the job current PTLs have done, although I certainly don't have a 360 view. This should also be taken under consideration, before submitting a PTL candidacy, I expect people to ask themselves - and then share with others - what their plan is for the next development cycle, how they can improve the project they want to run for, etc. IMHO, the fact that there hasn't been many candidacies means that folks are happy with the work current PTLs have done and would love to have them around for another release cycle. However, this doesn't mean that folks that have submitted their candidacy are not happy with the current PTL and I'm very happy to see other folks willing to run for the PTL possition. I also think that PTLs have integrated the community at large in their PTL role and this has definitely helped folks to participate in the decision process. I've never thought about PTLs as final deciders but as the ones responsible for leading the team towards a decision that reflects the best interest of the project. That being said, I wouldn't worry that much for not seeing so many candidacies. I think this fits into the Lazy Consensus concept. Cheers, FF -- @flaper87 Flavio Percoco ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev I've put a request to all those in the Cinder team meeting this morning that if they have any interest/desire that they should freely submit their candidacy today (I've even advised some folks that I felt they would make good candidates). Other than openly encouraging others to run for the position I'm not quite sure what folks would like to propose with respect to this thread and the concerns that they have raised. I've also had conversations in IRC with multiple cinder-core team members to the same effect. The fact is you can't force people to run for the position, however you can make it clear that it's an open process and encourage folks that have interest. I think we've always done that, and I think now even more than before we've made it explicit. Thanks, John ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] Current list of confirmed PTL Candidates
On 09/25/2013 02:15 PM, Joshua Harlow wrote: I agree with all that u guys are saying and I think that the current PTL's have done a great job and I know that there is a lot to take under consideration when submitting a potential PTL candidacy and that its all about delegating, integrating, publicizing. I don't think any of that is in question. I am just more concerned about the 'diversity' issue, which looking at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/PTL_Elections_Fall_2013#Candidates is imho lacking (1 person elections aren't really elections). Now of course this may not be an immediate problem, but it does not seem to be the ideal situation a community would be in; I just imagine a community that has a multi-person elections (those multi-people don't need to be at each others throats, or even competitors, or any of that) and which thrives off the diversity of those different people. These are all legitimate concerns, but I am more grateful that the number of PTL volunteers in each project is non-zero than that it is only one. IMO, the feel of the community is more like a volunteer civic or religious organization where one candidate for leadership positions that involve a lot of work is the norm, and some kind of rotation may also occur. -David It just seems like something we can work on as a community, to ensure that there is diversity. -Josh On 9/25/13 4:31 AM, Flavio Percoco fla...@redhat.com wrote: On 25/09/13 11:29 +0200, Thierry Carrez wrote: Joshua Harlow wrote: +2 I think we need to as a community figure out why this is the case and figure out ways to make it not the case. Is it education around what a PTL is? Is it lack of time? Is it something else? In my view the PTL handles three roles: final decider on program-specific issues, release management liaison (for programs containing an integrated project) and program ambassador (natural point of contact). Note that the last two roles can be delegated. If you don't delegate anything then it's a lot of work, especially for programs with large integrated projects -- so if the current PTL does a great job and runs for election again, I suspect everyone else doesn't feel the urge to run against him. FWIW I don't think established PTLs mind being challenged at all. If anything, in the past this served to identify people interested in project management that could help in the PTL role and serve in a succession strategy. So you shouldn't fear to piss of the established PTL by challenging them :) I agree with Thierry here. The PTL role takes time and dedication which is the first thing people must be aware of before submitting their candidacy. I'm very happy with the job current PTLs have done, although I certainly don't have a 360 view. This should also be taken under consideration, before submitting a PTL candidacy, I expect people to ask themselves - and then share with others - what their plan is for the next development cycle, how they can improve the project they want to run for, etc. IMHO, the fact that there hasn't been many candidacies means that folks are happy with the work current PTLs have done and would love to have them around for another release cycle. However, this doesn't mean that folks that have submitted their candidacy are not happy with the current PTL and I'm very happy to see other folks willing to run for the PTL possition. I also think that PTLs have integrated the community at large in their PTL role and this has definitely helped folks to participate in the decision process. I've never thought about PTLs as final deciders but as the ones responsible for leading the team towards a decision that reflects the best interest of the project. That being said, I wouldn't worry that much for not seeing so many candidacies. I think this fits into the Lazy Consensus concept. Cheers, FF -- @flaper87 Flavio Percoco ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
[openstack-dev] Current list of confirmed PTL Candidates
I currently have the following list of confirmed PTL candidates: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/PTL_Elections_Fall_2013#Candidates Confirmed candidates for Fall 2013 PTL Elections (alphabetically by last name): * Compute (Nova) o Russell Bryant http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-September/015370.html * Object Storage (Swift) o * Image Service (Glance) o Mark Washenberger http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-September/015583.html * Identity (Keystone) o Dolph Mathews http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-September/015387.html * Dashboard (Horizon) o Gabriel Hurley http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-September/015516.html o David Lyle http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-September/015437.html * Networking (Neutron) o Mark McClain http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-September/015403.html * Block Storage (Cinder) o John Griffith http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-September/015442.html * Metering/Monitoring (Ceilometer) o Julien Danjou http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-September/015485.html * Orchestration (Heat) o Steve Baker http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-September/015513.html * Database Service (Trove) o Michael Basnight http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-September/015425.html * Bare metal (Ironic) o Devananda van der Veen http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-September/015581.html * Queue service (Marconi) o Kurt Griffiths http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-September/015385.html * Common Libraries (Oslo) o Doug Hellmann http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-September/015440.html * Infrastructure o James E. Blair http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-September/015409.html * Documentation o Anne Gentle http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-September/015465.html * Quality Assurance (QA) o Sean Dague http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-September/015453.html * Deployment (TripleO) o Robert Collins http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-September/015431.html * Devstack (DevStack) o Dean Troyer http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-September/015470.html * Release cycle management o Thierry Carrez http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-September/015488.html If you have announced your candidacy and I have not listed your name yet, please get in contact with me via IRC or the email I used to post this email so that I can include your name. Thank you, Anita. (anteaya) ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] Current list of confirmed PTL Candidates
To confirm, we have a little bit over a day left for people to nominate, right? On a personal note, I'm a little sad to see so many single candidate elections. I guess it might indicate a strong consensus, but I worry it encourages group think over time. Michael On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 6:08 AM, Anita Kuno ante...@anteaya.info wrote: I currently have the following list of confirmed PTL candidates: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/PTL_Elections_Fall_2013#Candidates Confirmed candidates for Fall 2013 PTL Elections (alphabetically by last name): Compute (Nova) Russell Bryant Object Storage (Swift) Image Service (Glance) Mark Washenberger Identity (Keystone) Dolph Mathews Dashboard (Horizon) Gabriel Hurley David Lyle Networking (Neutron) Mark McClain Block Storage (Cinder) John Griffith Metering/Monitoring (Ceilometer) Julien Danjou Orchestration (Heat) Steve Baker Database Service (Trove) Michael Basnight Bare metal (Ironic) Devananda van der Veen Queue service (Marconi) Kurt Griffiths Common Libraries (Oslo) Doug Hellmann Infrastructure James E. Blair Documentation Anne Gentle Quality Assurance (QA) Sean Dague Deployment (TripleO) Robert Collins Devstack (DevStack) Dean Troyer Release cycle management Thierry Carrez If you have announced your candidacy and I have not listed your name yet, please get in contact with me via IRC or the email I used to post this email so that I can include your name. Thank you, Anita. (anteaya) ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev -- Rackspace Australia ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] Current list of confirmed PTL Candidates
On 09/24/2013 04:15 PM, Michael Still wrote: To confirm, we have a little bit over a day left for people to nominate, right? Confirmed. Nominations for OpenStack PTLs (Project Technical Leads) ... will remain open until 23:59 UTC September 26, 2013 http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-September/015369.html On a personal note, I'm a little sad to see so many single candidate elections. I guess it might indicate a strong consensus, but I worry it encourages group think over time. Michael I too had expected to see more candidate nominations than we have so far. I think democracy is a healthy process and dynamic tension helps to weed out complacency and keep us strong as a community. Anita. On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 6:08 AM, Anita Kuno ante...@anteaya.info wrote: I currently have the following list of confirmed PTL candidates: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/PTL_Elections_Fall_2013#Candidates Confirmed candidates for Fall 2013 PTL Elections (alphabetically by last name): Compute (Nova) Russell Bryant Object Storage (Swift) Image Service (Glance) Mark Washenberger Identity (Keystone) Dolph Mathews Dashboard (Horizon) Gabriel Hurley David Lyle Networking (Neutron) Mark McClain Block Storage (Cinder) John Griffith Metering/Monitoring (Ceilometer) Julien Danjou Orchestration (Heat) Steve Baker Database Service (Trove) Michael Basnight Bare metal (Ironic) Devananda van der Veen Queue service (Marconi) Kurt Griffiths Common Libraries (Oslo) Doug Hellmann Infrastructure James E. Blair Documentation Anne Gentle Quality Assurance (QA) Sean Dague Deployment (TripleO) Robert Collins Devstack (DevStack) Dean Troyer Release cycle management Thierry Carrez If you have announced your candidacy and I have not listed your name yet, please get in contact with me via IRC or the email I used to post this email so that I can include your name. Thank you, Anita. (anteaya) ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] Current list of confirmed PTL Candidates
+2 I think we need to as a community figure out why this is the case and figure out ways to make it not the case. Is it education around what a PTL is? Is it lack of time? Is it something else? -Josh On 9/24/13 1:15 PM, Michael Still mi...@stillhq.com wrote: To confirm, we have a little bit over a day left for people to nominate, right? On a personal note, I'm a little sad to see so many single candidate elections. I guess it might indicate a strong consensus, but I worry it encourages group think over time. Michael On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 6:08 AM, Anita Kuno ante...@anteaya.info wrote: I currently have the following list of confirmed PTL candidates: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/PTL_Elections_Fall_2013#Candidates Confirmed candidates for Fall 2013 PTL Elections (alphabetically by last name): Compute (Nova) Russell Bryant Object Storage (Swift) Image Service (Glance) Mark Washenberger Identity (Keystone) Dolph Mathews Dashboard (Horizon) Gabriel Hurley David Lyle Networking (Neutron) Mark McClain Block Storage (Cinder) John Griffith Metering/Monitoring (Ceilometer) Julien Danjou Orchestration (Heat) Steve Baker Database Service (Trove) Michael Basnight Bare metal (Ironic) Devananda van der Veen Queue service (Marconi) Kurt Griffiths Common Libraries (Oslo) Doug Hellmann Infrastructure James E. Blair Documentation Anne Gentle Quality Assurance (QA) Sean Dague Deployment (TripleO) Robert Collins Devstack (DevStack) Dean Troyer Release cycle management Thierry Carrez If you have announced your candidacy and I have not listed your name yet, please get in contact with me via IRC or the email I used to post this email so that I can include your name. Thank you, Anita. (anteaya) ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev -- Rackspace Australia ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
