Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal

2013-10-28 Thread Steve Baker
On 10/26/2013 05:25 AM, Clint Byrum wrote: Excerpts from Angus Salkeld's message of 2013-10-24 18:48:16 -0700: On 24/10/13 11:54 +0200, Patrick Petit wrote: Hi Clint, Thank you! I have few replies/questions in-line. Cheers, Patrick On 10/23/13 8:36 PM, Clint Byrum wrote: I think this fits

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal

2013-10-28 Thread Keith Bray
In-line comments. On 10/28/13 5:43 PM, Steve Baker sba...@redhat.com wrote: On 10/26/2013 05:25 AM, Clint Byrum wrote: Excerpts from Angus Salkeld's message of 2013-10-24 18:48:16 -0700: On 24/10/13 11:54 +0200, Patrick Petit wrote: Hi Clint, Thank you! I have few replies/questions in-line.

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal

2013-10-28 Thread Clint Byrum
Excerpts from Steve Baker's message of 2013-10-28 15:43:02 -0700: On 10/26/2013 05:25 AM, Clint Byrum wrote: Excerpts from Angus Salkeld's message of 2013-10-24 18:48:16 -0700: On 24/10/13 11:54 +0200, Patrick Petit wrote: Hi Clint, Thank you! I have few replies/questions in-line.

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal

2013-10-28 Thread Angus Salkeld
On 28/10/13 16:26 -0700, Clint Byrum wrote: [snip] My components proposals had no hosted_on, but I've been thinking about the implications of implementing software configuration as resources, and one of the natural consequences might be that hosted_on is the best way of establishing the

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal

2013-10-25 Thread Thomas Spatzier
...@rackspace.com wrote on 25.10.2013 02:23:55: From: Keith Bray keith.b...@rackspace.com To: OpenStack Development Mailing List openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org, Date: 25.10.2013 02:31 Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal Hi Thomas, here's my opinion: Heat and Solum

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal

2013-10-25 Thread Clint Byrum
Excerpts from Angus Salkeld's message of 2013-10-24 18:48:16 -0700: On 24/10/13 11:54 +0200, Patrick Petit wrote: Hi Clint, Thank you! I have few replies/questions in-line. Cheers, Patrick On 10/23/13 8:36 PM, Clint Byrum wrote: I think this fits into something that I want for optimizing

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal

2013-10-25 Thread Angus Salkeld
On 25/10/13 09:25 -0700, Clint Byrum wrote: Excerpts from Angus Salkeld's message of 2013-10-24 18:48:16 -0700: On 24/10/13 11:54 +0200, Patrick Petit wrote: Hi Clint, Thank you! I have few replies/questions in-line. Cheers Patrick On 10/23/13 8:36 PM, Clint Byrum wrote: I think this fits into

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal

2013-10-24 Thread Patrick Petit
Hi Clint, Thank you! I have few replies/questions in-line. Cheers, Patrick On 10/23/13 8:36 PM, Clint Byrum wrote: Excerpts from Patrick Petit's message of 2013-10-23 10:58:22 -0700: Dear Steve and All, If I may add up on this already busy thread to share our experience with using Heat in

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal

2013-10-24 Thread Patrick Petit
Sorry, I clicked the 'send' button too quickly. On 10/24/13 11:54 AM, Patrick Petit wrote: Hi Clint, Thank you! I have few replies/questions in-line. Cheers, Patrick On 10/23/13 8:36 PM, Clint Byrum wrote: Excerpts from Patrick Petit's message of 2013-10-23 10:58:22 -0700: Dear Steve and All,

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal

2013-10-24 Thread Thomas Spatzier
Petit patrick.pe...@bull.net To: OpenStack Development Mailing List openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org, Date: 24.10.2013 12:18 Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal Sorry, I clicked the 'send' button too quickly. On 10/24/13 11:54 AM, Patrick Petit wrote: Hi

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal

2013-10-24 Thread Keith Bray
openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org, Date: 24.10.2013 12:18 Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal Sorry, I clicked the 'send' button too quickly. On 10/24/13 11:54 AM, Patrick Petit wrote: Hi Clint, Thank you! I have few replies/questions in-line. Cheers

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal

2013-10-24 Thread Angus Salkeld
On 24/10/13 11:54 +0200, Patrick Petit wrote: Hi Clint, Thank you! I have few replies/questions in-line. Cheers, Patrick On 10/23/13 8:36 PM, Clint Byrum wrote: Excerpts from Patrick Petit's message of 2013-10-23 10:58:22 -0700: Dear Steve and All, If I may add up on this already busy thread

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal

2013-10-23 Thread Thomas Spatzier
Clint Byrum cl...@fewbar.com wrote on 23.10.2013 00:28:17: From: Clint Byrum cl...@fewbar.com To: openstack-dev openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org, Date: 23.10.2013 00:30 Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal Excerpts from Georgy Okrokvertskhov's message

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal

2013-10-23 Thread Clint Byrum
Excerpts from Thomas Spatzier's message of 2013-10-23 00:08:23 -0700: Clint Byrum cl...@fewbar.com wrote on 23.10.2013 00:28:17: From: Clint Byrum cl...@fewbar.com To: openstack-dev openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org, Date: 23.10.2013 00:30 Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal

2013-10-23 Thread Patrick Petit
Dear Steve and All, If I may add up on this already busy thread to share our experience with using Heat in large and complex software deployments. I work on a project which precisely provides additional value at the articulation point between resource orchestration automation and

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal

2013-10-23 Thread Clint Byrum
Excerpts from Patrick Petit's message of 2013-10-23 10:58:22 -0700: Dear Steve and All, If I may add up on this already busy thread to share our experience with using Heat in large and complex software deployments. Thanks for sharing Patrick, I have a few replies in-line. I work on a

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal

2013-10-23 Thread Stan Lagun
Hi Patric, Thank you for such great post! This is very close to the vision I've tried to propose earlier on software orchestration thread and I'm glad other people concern about the same issues. However the problem the problem with PaaS-like approached it that they currently on a little bit

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal

2013-10-23 Thread Georgy Okrokvertskhov
Hi, Looking through the thread I mentioned couple definitions of software orchestration. I would like to summarize definitions before we go to deep technical discussion about actual implementation. There are two major areas and approaches covered by software orchestration: *Software component

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal

2013-10-22 Thread Thomas Spatzier
Steve Baker sba...@redhat.com wrote on 21.10.2013 23:02:47: From: Steve Baker sba...@redhat.com To: openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org, Date: 21.10.2013 23:06 Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal On 10/22/2013 08:45 AM, Mike Spreitzer wrote: Steve Baker

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal

2013-10-22 Thread Zane Bitter
On 22/10/13 09:15, Thomas Spatzier wrote: BTW, the convention of properties being input and attributes being output, i.e. that subtle distinction between properties and attributes is not really intuitive, at least not to me as non-native speaker, because I used to use both words as synonyms.

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal

2013-10-22 Thread Lakshminaraya Renganarayana
Zane Bitter zbit...@redhat.com wrote on 10/22/2013 09:24:28 AM: On 22/10/13 09:15, Thomas Spatzier wrote: BTW, the convention of properties being input and attributes being output, i.e. that subtle distinction between properties and attributes is not really intuitive, at least not to me

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal

2013-10-22 Thread Thomas Spatzier
Zane Bitter zbit...@redhat.com wrote on 22.10.2013 15:24:28: From: Zane Bitter zbit...@redhat.com To: openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org, Date: 22.10.2013 15:27 Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal On 22/10/13 09:15, Thomas Spatzier wrote: BTW

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal

2013-10-22 Thread Zane Bitter
On 22/10/13 16:35, Thomas Spatzier wrote: Zane Bitter zbit...@redhat.com wrote on 22.10.2013 15:24:28: From: Zane Bitter zbit...@redhat.com To: openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org, Date: 22.10.2013 15:27 Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal On 22/10/13 09:15

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal

2013-10-22 Thread Thomas Spatzier
Zane Bitter zbit...@redhat.com wrote on 22.10.2013 17:23:52: From: Zane Bitter zbit...@redhat.com To: openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org, Date: 22.10.2013 17:26 Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal On 22/10/13 16:35, Thomas Spatzier wrote: Zane Bitter zbit

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal

2013-10-22 Thread Stan Lagun
] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal On 22/10/13 16:35, Thomas Spatzier wrote: Zane Bitter zbit...@redhat.com wrote on 22.10.2013 15:24:28: From: Zane Bitter zbit...@redhat.com To: openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org, Date: 22.10.2013 15:27 Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal

2013-10-22 Thread Georgy Okrokvertskhov
: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal On 22/10/13 16:35, Thomas Spatzier wrote: Zane Bitter zbit...@redhat.com wrote on 22.10.2013 15:24:28: From: Zane Bitter zbit...@redhat.com To: openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org, Date: 22.10.2013 15:27 Subject: Re

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal

2013-10-22 Thread Thomas Spatzier
Stan Lagun sla...@mirantis.com wrote on 22.10.2013 19:02:38: From: Stan Lagun sla...@mirantis.com To: OpenStack Development Mailing List openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org, Date: 22.10.2013 19:06 Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal Hello, I've been

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal

2013-10-22 Thread Georgy Okrokvertskhov
on 22.10.2013 20:01:19: From: Georgy Okrokvertskhov gokrokvertsk...@mirantis.com To: OpenStack Development Mailing List openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org, Date: 22.10.2013 20:05 Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal Hi, I would agree with Stan that we

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal

2013-10-22 Thread Clint Byrum
Excerpts from Georgy Okrokvertskhov's message of 2013-10-22 13:32:40 -0700: Hi Thomas, I agree with you on semantics part. At the same time I see a potential question which might appear - if semantics is limited by few states visible for Heat engine, then who actually does software

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal

2013-10-22 Thread Joshua Harlow
Sounds like taskflow could be that program (+1 from me, ha)? Mistral to me is a nice authenticated REST api + other goodies ontop of something that reliably executes workflows. But then what I described is also the majority of what openstack does (authenticated REST api + other goodies ontop of

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal

2013-10-22 Thread Georgy Okrokvertskhov
Hi Clint, Thank you for the detailed analysis. I'm not sure I know what software orchestration is, but I will take a stab at a succinct definition: Coordination of software configuration across multiple hosts. Having this definition of software orchestration what will Heat software

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal

2013-10-22 Thread Georgy Okrokvertskhov
Hi Joshua, Sounds like taskflow could be that program (+1 from me, ha)? Mistral to me is a nice authenticated REST api + other goodies ontop of something that reliably executes workflows. I would say that Mistral is a way to do this. My arguments are the following: 1. Mistral decouples code.

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal

2013-10-22 Thread Joshua Harlow
Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal Hi Joshua, Sounds like taskflow could be that program (+1 from me, ha)? Mistral to me is a nice authenticated REST api + other goodies ontop of something that reliably executes workflows. I would say that Mistral is a way to do

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal

2013-10-22 Thread Georgy Okrokvertskhov
@lists.openstack.org Date: Tuesday, October 22, 2013 4:53 PM To: OpenStack Development Mailing List openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal Hi Joshua, Sounds like taskflow could be that program (+1 from me, ha)? Mistral to me

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal

2013-10-21 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Steve Baker sba...@redhat.com wrote on 10/15/2013 06:48:53 PM: I've just written some proposals to address Heat's HOT software configuration needs, and I'd like to use this thread to get some feedback: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Heat/Blueprints/hot-software-config

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal

2013-10-21 Thread Angus Salkeld
On 21/10/13 15:45 -0400, Mike Spreitzer wrote: Steve Baker sba...@redhat.com wrote on 10/15/2013 06:48:53 PM: I've just written some proposals to address Heat's HOT software configuration needs, and I'd like to use this thread to get some feedback:

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal

2013-10-21 Thread Steve Baker
On 10/22/2013 08:45 AM, Mike Spreitzer wrote: Steve Baker sba...@redhat.com wrote on 10/15/2013 06:48:53 PM: I've just written some proposals to address Heat's HOT software configuration needs, and I'd like to use this thread to get some feedback:

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal

2013-10-19 Thread Mike Spreitzer
(I really do not understand how the archive is ordered. In the by-thread view, in which all messages with this subject are equally indented, the last message listed is not the chronologically last.) I see that components have parameters. In some uses (invocations) of components, parameters

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal

2013-10-17 Thread Zane Bitter
On 16/10/13 21:02, Clint Byrum wrote: Excerpts from Zane Bitter's message of 2013-10-16 06:16:33 -0700: I'd love to be able to put this control in the user's hands by just using provider templates - i.e. you designate PuppetServer.yaml as the provider for an OS::Nova::Server in your template

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal

2013-10-16 Thread Steven Hardy
On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 09:21:12PM -0400, Mike Spreitzer wrote: Steve Baker sba...@redhat.com wrote on 10/15/2013 06:48:53 PM: From: Steve Baker sba...@redhat.com To: openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org, Date: 10/15/2013 06:51 PM Subject: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal

2013-10-16 Thread Zane Bitter
On 16/10/13 06:56, Mike Spreitzer wrote: What is the difference between what today's heat engine does and a workflow? I am interested to hear what you experts think, I hope it will be clarifying. I presume the answers will touch on things like error handling, state tracking, and updates.

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal

2013-10-16 Thread Zane Bitter
On 16/10/13 00:48, Steve Baker wrote: I've just written some proposals to address Heat's HOT software configuration needs, and I'd like to use this thread to get some feedback: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Heat/Blueprints/hot-software-config

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal

2013-10-16 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Steven Hardy sha...@redhat.com wrote on 10/16/2013 04:11:40 AM: ... IMO we should be abstracting the software configuration complexity behind a Heat resource interface, not pushing it up to a pre-processor (which implies some horribly complex interfaces at the heat template level) I am not

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal

2013-10-16 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Zane Bitter zbit...@redhat.com wrote on 10/16/2013 08:25:38 AM: To answer your question, the key thing that Heat does is take in two declarative models and generate a workflow to transform one into the other. (The general case of this is a stack update, where the two models are defined in

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal

2013-10-16 Thread Thomas Spatzier
Hi Steve, thanks a lot taking the effort to write all this down. I had a look at both wiki pages and have some comments below. This is really from the top of my head, and I guess I have to spend some more time thinking about it, but I wanted to provide some feedback anyway. On components vs.

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal

2013-10-16 Thread Zane Bitter
On 16/10/13 15:58, Mike Spreitzer wrote: Zane Bitter zbit...@redhat.com wrote on 10/16/2013 08:25:38 AM: To answer your question, the key thing that Heat does is take in two declarative models and generate a workflow to transform one into the other. (The general case of this is a stack

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal

2013-10-16 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Zane Bitter zbit...@redhat.com wrote on 10/16/2013 10:30:44 AM: On 16/10/13 15:58, Mike Spreitzer wrote: ... Thanks for a great short sharp answer. In that light, I see a concern. Once a workflow has been generated, the system has lost the ability to adapt to changes in either model.

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal

2013-10-16 Thread Clint Byrum
Excerpts from Zane Bitter's message of 2013-10-16 06:16:33 -0700: On 16/10/13 00:48, Steve Baker wrote: I've just written some proposals to address Heat's HOT software configuration needs, and I'd like to use this thread to get some feedback:

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal

2013-10-16 Thread Lakshminaraya Renganarayana
Clint Byrum cl...@fewbar.com wrote on 10/16/2013 03:02:13 PM: Excerpts from Zane Bitter's message of 2013-10-16 06:16:33 -0700: For me the crucial question is, how do we define the interface for synchronising and passing data from and to arbitrary applications running under an

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal

2013-10-16 Thread Steve Baker
On 10/17/2013 02:16 AM, Zane Bitter wrote: On 16/10/13 00:48, Steve Baker wrote: I've just written some proposals to address Heat's HOT software configuration needs, and I'd like to use this thread to get some feedback: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Heat/Blueprints/hot-software-config

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal

2013-10-16 Thread Steve Baker
On 10/17/2013 03:11 AM, Thomas Spatzier wrote: Hi Steve, thanks a lot taking the effort to write all this down. I had a look at both wiki pages and have some comments below. This is really from the top of my head, and I guess I have to spend some more time thinking about it, but I wanted to

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal

2013-10-15 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Steve Baker sba...@redhat.com wrote on 10/15/2013 06:48:53 PM: From: Steve Baker sba...@redhat.com To: openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org, Date: 10/15/2013 06:51 PM Subject: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal I've just written some proposals to address Heat's HOT

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal

2013-10-15 Thread Steve Baker
On 10/16/2013 02:21 PM, Mike Spreitzer wrote: Steve Baker sba...@redhat.com wrote on 10/15/2013 06:48:53 PM: From: Steve Baker sba...@redhat.com To: openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org, Date: 10/15/2013 06:51 PM Subject: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal I've

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal

2013-10-15 Thread Mike Spreitzer
The threading in the archive includes this discussion under the HOT Software orchestration proposal for workflows heading, and the overall ordering in the archive looks very mixed up to me. I am going to reply here, hoping that the new subject line will be subject to less strange ordering in