Re: [openstack-dev] [NFV][Telco] pxe-boot

2014-12-12 Thread Steve Gordon
- Original Message -
 From: Pasquale Porreca pasquale.porr...@dektech.com.au
 To: openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org
 
 Well, one of the main reason to choose an open source product is to
 avoid vendor lock-in. I think it is not
 
 advisable to embed in the software running in an instance a call to
 OpenStack specific services.

Possibly a stupid question, but even if PXE boot was supported would the SC not 
still have to trigger the creation of the PL instance(s) via a call to Nova 
anyway (albeit with boot media coming from PXE instead of Glance)?

-Steve

 On 12/10/14 00:20, Joe Gordon wrote:
 On Wed, Dec 3, 2014 at 1:16 AM, Pasquale Porreca 
 pasquale.porr...@dektech.com.au  wrote:
 
 
 The use case we were thinking about is a Network Function (e.g. IMS
 Nodes) implementation in which the high availability is based on
 OpenSAF. In this scenario there is an Active/Standby cluster of 2
 System Controllers (SC) plus several Payloads (PL) that boot from
 network, controlled by the SC. The logic of which service to deploy
 on each payload is inside the SC.
 
 In OpenStack both SCs and PLs will be instances running in the cloud,
 anyway the PLs should still boot from network under the control of
 the SC. In fact to use Glance to store the image for the PLs and
 keep the control of the PLs in the SC, the SC should trigger the
 boot of the PLs with requests to Nova/Glance, but an application
 running inside an instance should not directly interact with a cloud
 infrastructure service like Glance or Nova.
 
 Why not? This is a fairly common practice.
 --
 Pasquale Porreca
 
 DEK Technologies
 Via dei Castelli Romani, 22
 00040 Pomezia (Roma)
 
 Mobile +39 3394823805
 Skype paskporr
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Steve Gordon, RHCE
Sr. Technical Product Manager,
Red Hat Enterprise Linux OpenStack Platform

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Re: [openstack-dev] [NFV][Telco] pxe-boot

2014-12-12 Thread Pasquale Porreca
From my point of view it is not advisable to base some functionalities
of the instances on direct calls to Openstack API. This for 2 main
reasons, the first one: if the Openstack code changes (and we know
Openstack code does change) it will be required to change the code of
the software running in the instance too; the second one: if in the
future one wants to pass to another cloud infrastructure it will be more
difficult to achieve it.

On 12/12/14 01:20, Joe Gordon wrote:
 On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 7:42 AM, Pasquale Porreca 
 pasquale.porr...@dektech.com.au wrote:
 
   Well, one of the main reason to choose an open source product is to avoid
  vendor lock-in. I think it is not
  advisable to embed in the software running in an instance a call to
  OpenStack specific services.
 
 I'm sorry I don't follow the logic here, can you elaborate.
 
 

-- 
Pasquale Porreca

DEK Technologies
Via dei Castelli Romani, 22
00040 Pomezia (Roma)

Mobile +39 3394823805
Skype paskporr

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Re: [openstack-dev] [NFV][Telco] pxe-boot

2014-12-12 Thread Pasquale Porreca
It is possible to decide in advance how many PL will be necessary for a
service, so their creation can be decided externally from the SC. Anyway
the role that any PL should assume and so the image to install on each
PL should be decided by the SC.

On 12/12/14 09:54, Steve Gordon wrote:
 - Original Message -
  From: Pasquale Porreca pasquale.porr...@dektech.com.au
  To: openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org
  
  Well, one of the main reason to choose an open source product is to
  avoid vendor lock-in. I think it is not
  
  advisable to embed in the software running in an instance a call to
  OpenStack specific services.
 Possibly a stupid question, but even if PXE boot was supported would the SC 
 not still have to trigger the creation of the PL instance(s) via a call to 
 Nova anyway (albeit with boot media coming from PXE instead of Glance)?

-- 
Pasquale Porreca

DEK Technologies
Via dei Castelli Romani, 22
00040 Pomezia (Roma)

Mobile +39 3394823805
Skype paskporr

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Re: [openstack-dev] [NFV][Telco] pxe-boot

2014-12-12 Thread Joe Gordon
On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 1:48 AM, Pasquale Porreca 
pasquale.porr...@dektech.com.au wrote:

 From my point of view it is not advisable to base some functionalities
 of the instances on direct calls to Openstack API. This for 2 main
 reasons, the first one: if the Openstack code changes (and we know
 Openstack code does change) it will be required to change the code of
 the software running in the instance too; the second one: if in the
 future one wants to pass to another cloud infrastructure it will be more
 difficult to achieve it.



Thoughts on your two reasons:

1) What happens if OpenStack code changes?

While OpenStack is under very active development we have stable APIs,
especially around something like booting an instance. So the API call to
boot an instance with a specific image *should not* change as you upgrade
OpenStack (unless we deprecate an API, but this will be a slow multi year
process).

2) if in the future one wants to pass to another cloud infrastructure it
will be more difficult to achieve it.

Why not use something like apache jcloud to make this easier?
https://jclouds.apache.org/






 On 12/12/14 01:20, Joe Gordon wrote:
  On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 7:42 AM, Pasquale Porreca 
  pasquale.porr...@dektech.com.au wrote:
 
Well, one of the main reason to choose an open source product is to
 avoid
   vendor lock-in. I think it is not
   advisable to embed in the software running in an instance a call to
   OpenStack specific services.
  
  I'm sorry I don't follow the logic here, can you elaborate.
 
 

 --
 Pasquale Porreca

 DEK Technologies
 Via dei Castelli Romani, 22
 00040 Pomezia (Roma)

 Mobile +39 3394823805
 Skype paskporr

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Re: [openstack-dev] [NFV][Telco] pxe-boot

2014-12-11 Thread Joe Gordon
On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 7:42 AM, Pasquale Porreca 
pasquale.porr...@dektech.com.au wrote:

  Well, one of the main reason to choose an open source product is to avoid
 vendor lock-in. I think it is not
 advisable to embed in the software running in an instance a call to
 OpenStack specific services.


I'm sorry I don't follow the logic here, can you elaborate.



 On 12/10/14 00:20, Joe Gordon wrote:


 On Wed, Dec 3, 2014 at 1:16 AM, Pasquale Porreca 
 pasquale.porr...@dektech.com.au wrote:

 The use case we were thinking about is a Network Function (e.g. IMS
 Nodes) implementation in which the high availability is based on OpenSAF.
 In this scenario there is an Active/Standby cluster of 2 System Controllers
 (SC) plus several Payloads (PL) that boot from network, controlled by the
 SC. The logic of which service to deploy on each payload is inside the SC.

 In OpenStack both SCs and PLs will be instances running in the cloud,
 anyway the PLs should still boot from network under the control of the SC.
 In fact to use Glance to store the image for the PLs and keep the control
 of the PLs in the SC, the SC should trigger the boot of the PLs with
 requests to Nova/Glance, but an application running inside an instance
 should not directly interact with a cloud infrastructure service like
 Glance or Nova.


  Why not? This is a fairly common practice.


 --
 Pasquale Porreca

 DEK Technologies
 Via dei Castelli Romani, 22
 00040 Pomezia (Roma)

 Mobile +39 3394823805
 Skype paskporr


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 OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org
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Re: [openstack-dev] [NFV][Telco] pxe-boot

2014-12-10 Thread Pasquale Porreca
Well, one of the main reason to choose an open source product is to 
avoid vendor lock-in. I think it is not
advisableto embed in the software running in an instance a call to 
OpenStack specific services.


On 12/10/14 00:20, Joe Gordon wrote:


On Wed, Dec 3, 2014 at 1:16 AM, Pasquale Porreca 
pasquale.porr...@dektech.com.au 
mailto:pasquale.porr...@dektech.com.au wrote:


The use case we were thinking about is a Network Function (e.g.
IMS Nodes) implementation in which the high availability is based
on OpenSAF. In this scenario there is an Active/Standby cluster of
2 System Controllers (SC) plus several Payloads (PL) that boot
from network, controlled by the SC. The logic of which service to
deploy on each payload is inside the SC.

In OpenStack both SCs and PLs will be instances running in the
cloud, anyway the PLs should still boot from network under the
control of the SC. In fact to use Glance to store the image for
the PLs and keep the control of the PLs in the SC, the SC should
trigger the boot of the PLs with requests to Nova/Glance, but an
application running inside an instance should not directly
interact with a cloud infrastructure service like Glance or Nova.


Why not? This is a fairly common practice.


--
Pasquale Porreca

DEK Technologies
Via dei Castelli Romani, 22
00040 Pomezia (Roma)

Mobile +39 3394823805
Skype paskporr

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Re: [openstack-dev] [NFV][Telco] pxe-boot

2014-12-09 Thread Joe Gordon
On Wed, Dec 3, 2014 at 1:16 AM, Pasquale Porreca 
pasquale.porr...@dektech.com.au wrote:

 The use case we were thinking about is a Network Function (e.g. IMS Nodes)
 implementation in which the high availability is based on OpenSAF. In this
 scenario there is an Active/Standby cluster of 2 System Controllers (SC)
 plus several Payloads (PL) that boot from network, controlled by the SC.
 The logic of which service to deploy on each payload is inside the SC.

 In OpenStack both SCs and PLs will be instances running in the cloud,
 anyway the PLs should still boot from network under the control of the SC.
 In fact to use Glance to store the image for the PLs and keep the control
 of the PLs in the SC, the SC should trigger the boot of the PLs with
 requests to Nova/Glance, but an application running inside an instance
 should not directly interact with a cloud infrastructure service like
 Glance or Nova.


Why not? This is a fairly common practice.



 We know that it is yet possible to achieve network booting in OpenStack
 using an image stored in Glance that acts like a pxe client, anyway this
 workaround has some drawbacks, mainly due to the fact it won't be possible
 to choose the specific virtual NIC on which the network boot will happen,
 causing DHCP requests to flow on networks where they don't belong to and
 possible delays in the boot of the instances.


 On 11/27/14 00:32, Steve Gordon wrote:

 - Original Message -

 From: Angelo Matarazzo angelo.matara...@dektech.com.au
 To: OpenStack Development Mailing openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org,
 openstack-operat...@lists.openstack.org


 Hi all,
 my team and I are working on pxe boot feature very similar to the
 Discless VM one  in Active blueprint list[1]
 The blueprint [2] is no longer active and we created a new spec [3][4].

 Nova core reviewers commented our spec and the first and the most
 important objection is that there is not a compelling reason to
 provide this kind of feature : booting from network.

 Aside from the specific implementation, I think that some members of
 TelcoWorkingGroup could be interested in  and provide a use case.
 I would also like to add this item to the agenda of next meeting

 Any thought?

 We did discuss this today, and granted it is listed as a blueprint
 someone in the group had expressed interest in at a point in time - though
 I don't believe any further work was done. The general feeling was that
 there isn't anything really NFV or Telco specific about this over and above
 the more generic use case of legacy applications. Are you able to further
 elaborate on the reason it's NFV or Telco specific other than because of
 who is requesting it in this instance?

 Thanks!

 -Steve

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 --
 Pasquale Porreca

 DEK Technologies
 Via dei Castelli Romani, 22
 00040 Pomezia (Roma)

 Mobile +39 3394823805
 Skype paskporr



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Re: [openstack-dev] [NFV][Telco] pxe-boot

2014-12-03 Thread Pasquale Porreca
The use case we were thinking about is a Network Function (e.g. IMS 
Nodes) implementation in which the high availability is based on 
OpenSAF. In this scenario there is an Active/Standby cluster of 2 System 
Controllers (SC) plus several Payloads (PL) that boot from network, 
controlled by the SC. The logic of which service to deploy on each 
payload is inside the SC.


In OpenStack both SCs and PLs will be instances running in the cloud, 
anyway the PLs should still boot from network under the control of the 
SC. In fact to use Glance to store the image for the PLs and keep the 
control of the PLs in the SC, the SC should trigger the boot of the PLs 
with requests to Nova/Glance, but an application running inside an 
instance should not directly interact with a cloud infrastructure 
service like Glance or Nova.


We know that it is yet possible to achieve network booting in OpenStack 
using an image stored in Glance that acts like a pxe client, anyway this 
workaround has some drawbacks, mainly due to the fact it won't be 
possible to choose the specific virtual NIC on which the network boot 
will happen, causing DHCP requests to flow on networks where they don't 
belong to and possible delays in the boot of the instances.


On 11/27/14 00:32, Steve Gordon wrote:

- Original Message -

From: Angelo Matarazzo angelo.matara...@dektech.com.au
To: OpenStack Development Mailing openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org, 
openstack-operat...@lists.openstack.org


Hi all,
my team and I are working on pxe boot feature very similar to the
Discless VM one  in Active blueprint list[1]
The blueprint [2] is no longer active and we created a new spec [3][4].

Nova core reviewers commented our spec and the first and the most
important objection is that there is not a compelling reason to
provide this kind of feature : booting from network.

Aside from the specific implementation, I think that some members of
TelcoWorkingGroup could be interested in  and provide a use case.
I would also like to add this item to the agenda of next meeting

Any thought?

We did discuss this today, and granted it is listed as a blueprint someone in 
the group had expressed interest in at a point in time - though I don't believe 
any further work was done. The general feeling was that there isn't anything 
really NFV or Telco specific about this over and above the more generic use 
case of legacy applications. Are you able to further elaborate on the reason 
it's NFV or Telco specific other than because of who is requesting it in this 
instance?

Thanks!

-Steve

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--
Pasquale Porreca

DEK Technologies
Via dei Castelli Romani, 22
00040 Pomezia (Roma)

Mobile +39 3394823805
Skype paskporr


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Re: [openstack-dev] [NFV][Telco] pxe-boot

2014-11-26 Thread Steve Gordon
- Original Message -
 From: Angelo Matarazzo angelo.matara...@dektech.com.au
 To: OpenStack Development Mailing openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org, 
 openstack-operat...@lists.openstack.org
 
 
 Hi all,
 my team and I are working on pxe boot feature very similar to the
 Discless VM one  in Active blueprint list[1]
 The blueprint [2] is no longer active and we created a new spec [3][4].
 
 Nova core reviewers commented our spec and the first and the most
 important objection is that there is not a compelling reason to
 provide this kind of feature : booting from network.
 
 Aside from the specific implementation, I think that some members of
 TelcoWorkingGroup could be interested in  and provide a use case.
 I would also like to add this item to the agenda of next meeting
 
 Any thought?

We did discuss this today, and granted it is listed as a blueprint someone in 
the group had expressed interest in at a point in time - though I don't believe 
any further work was done. The general feeling was that there isn't anything 
really NFV or Telco specific about this over and above the more generic use 
case of legacy applications. Are you able to further elaborate on the reason 
it's NFV or Telco specific other than because of who is requesting it in this 
instance?

Thanks!

-Steve

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Re: [openstack-dev] [NFV][Telco] pxe-boot

2014-11-25 Thread Monty Taylor
On 11/25/2014 05:33 PM, Angelo Matarazzo wrote:
 
 Hi all,
 my team and I are working on pxe boot feature very similar to the
 Discless VM one  in Active blueprint list[1]
 The blueprint [2] is no longer active and we created a new spec [3][4].
 
 Nova core reviewers commented our spec and the first and the most
 important objection is that there is not a compelling reason to provide
 this kind of feature : booting from network.

Why not just work with the Ironic project, who already have OpenStack
code to deal with PXE booting, and already does it in a way that's
driven by nova.

 Aside from the specific implementation, I think that some members of
 TelcoWorkingGroup could be interested in  and provide a use case.
 I would also like to add this item to the agenda of next meeting
 
 Any thought?
 
 Best regards,
 Angelo
 
 [1] https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/TelcoWorkingGroup#Active_Blueprints
 [2] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/libvirt-empty-vm-boot-pxe
 [3] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/boot-order-for-instance
 [4] https://review.openstack.org/#/c/133254/
 
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