Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Ongoing spam in Freenode IRC channels

[Jeremy Stanley]

On 2018-09-11 16:53:05 + (+), Jeremy Stanley wrote:
> On 2018-08-01 08:40:51 -0700 (-0700), James E. Blair wrote:
> > Monty Taylor  writes:
> > > On 08/01/2018 12:45 AM, Ian Wienand wrote:
> > > > I'd suggest to start, people with an interest in a channel can
> > > > request +r from an IRC admin in #openstack-infra and we track
> > > > it at [2]
> > >
> > > To mitigate the pain caused by +r - we have created a channel
> > > called #openstack-unregistered and have configured the channels
> > > with the +r flag to forward people to it.
> [...]
> > It turns out this was a very popular option, so we've gone ahead
> > and performed this for all channels registered with accessbot.
> [...]
> 
> We rolled this back 5 days ago for all channels and haven't had any
> new reports of in-channel spamming yet. Hopefully this means the
> recent flood is behind us now but definitely let us know (replying
> on this thread or in #openstack-infra on Freenode) if you see any
> signs of resurgence.

And then it was turned back on again a few hours ago after a new
wave of spam cropped up. We'll try to continue to keep an eye on
things.
-- 
Jeremy Stanley


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Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Ongoing spam in Freenode IRC channels

[Jeremy Stanley]

On 2018-08-01 08:40:51 -0700 (-0700), James E. Blair wrote:
> Monty Taylor  writes:
> > On 08/01/2018 12:45 AM, Ian Wienand wrote:
> > > I'd suggest to start, people with an interest in a channel can
> > > request +r from an IRC admin in #openstack-infra and we track
> > > it at [2]
> >
> > To mitigate the pain caused by +r - we have created a channel
> > called #openstack-unregistered and have configured the channels
> > with the +r flag to forward people to it.
[...]
> It turns out this was a very popular option, so we've gone ahead
> and performed this for all channels registered with accessbot.
[...]

We rolled this back 5 days ago for all channels and haven't had any
new reports of in-channel spamming yet. Hopefully this means the
recent flood is behind us now but definitely let us know (replying
on this thread or in #openstack-infra on Freenode) if you see any
signs of resurgence.
-- 
Jeremy Stanley


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Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Ongoing spam in Freenode IRC channels

[Jeremy Stanley]

On 2018-08-01 12:48:39 -0400 (-0400), Doug Hellmann wrote:
> Excerpts from Monty Taylor's message of 2018-08-01 09:58:03 -0500:
> > On 08/01/2018 08:38 AM, Jeremy Stanley wrote:
> > > On 2018-08-01 09:58:48 -0300 (-0300), Rafael Weingärtner wrote:
> > >> What about Rocket chat instead of Slack? It is open source.
> > >> https://github.com/RocketChat/Rocket.Chat
> > >>
> > >> Monty, what kind of evaluation would you guys need? I might be
> > >> able to help.
> > > 
> > > Consider reading and possibly resurrecting the infra spec for it:
> > > 
> > >  https://review.openstack.org/319506
> > > 
> > > My main concern is how we'll go about authenticating and policing
> > > whatever gateway we set up. As soon as spammers and other abusers
> > > find out there's an open (or nearly so) proxy to a major IRC
> > > network, they'll use it to hide their origins from the IRC server
> > > operators and put us in the middle of the problem.
> > 
> > To be clear -- I was not suggesting running matrix and IRC. I was 
> > suggesting investigating running a matrix home server and the 
> > permanently moving all openstack channels to it.
> > 
> > matrix synapse supports federated identity providers with saml and cas 
> > support implemented. I would imagine we'd want to configure it to 
> > federate to openstackid for logging in to the home server -so that might 
> > involve either adding saml support to openstackid or writing an 
> > openid-connect driver to synapse.
> 
> This matches my expectations. We did talk about supporting a temporary
> bridge to IRC, during the migration, but I don't think we need to run an
> "open" home server to have that.

Yes, I'm not concerned about Matrix specifically. My response was
triggered by Rafael's suggestion of running a Rocket.Chat interface
for users. Sorry if that wasn't clear.
-- 
Jeremy Stanley


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Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Ongoing spam in Freenode IRC channels

[Doug Hellmann]

Excerpts from Monty Taylor's message of 2018-08-01 09:58:03 -0500:
> On 08/01/2018 08:38 AM, Jeremy Stanley wrote:
> > On 2018-08-01 09:58:48 -0300 (-0300), Rafael Weingärtner wrote:
> >> What about Rocket chat instead of Slack? It is open source.
> >> https://github.com/RocketChat/Rocket.Chat
> >>
> >> Monty, what kind of evaluation would you guys need? I might be
> >> able to help.
> > 
> > Consider reading and possibly resurrecting the infra spec for it:
> > 
> >  https://review.openstack.org/319506
> > 
> > My main concern is how we'll go about authenticating and policing
> > whatever gateway we set up. As soon as spammers and other abusers
> > find out there's an open (or nearly so) proxy to a major IRC
> > network, they'll use it to hide their origins from the IRC server
> > operators and put us in the middle of the problem.
> 
> To be clear -- I was not suggesting running matrix and IRC. I was 
> suggesting investigating running a matrix home server and the 
> permanently moving all openstack channels to it.
> 
> matrix synapse supports federated identity providers with saml and cas 
> support implemented. I would imagine we'd want to configure it to 
> federate to openstackid for logging in to the home server -so that might 
> involve either adding saml support to openstackid or writing an 
> openid-connect driver to synapse.
> 

This matches my expectations. We did talk about supporting a temporary
bridge to IRC, during the migration, but I don't think we need to run an
"open" home server to have that.

Doug

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Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Ongoing spam in Freenode IRC channels

[Samuel Cassiba]

On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 5:21 AM, Andrey Kurilin  wrote:
> I can make an assumption that for marketing reasons, Slack Inc can propose
> extended Free plan.
> But anyway, even with default one the only thing which can limit us is
> `10,000 searchable messages` which is bigger than 0 (freenode doesn't store
> messages).
>
>
> Why I like slack? because a lot of people are familar with it (a lot of
> companies use it as like some opensource communities, like k8s )
>
> PS: I realize that OpenStack Community will never go away from Freenode and
> IRC, but I do not want to stay silent.
>

My response wasn't intended to become a wall of text, but my
individual experience dovetails with the ongoing thread. The intent
here is not to focus on one thing or the other, but to highlight some
of the strengths and drawbacks.

This is a great proposal on-paper. As you said, lots of people are
already familiar with the technology and concept at this point. It
generally seems to make sense.

The unfortunate reality is that with something that has N searchable
messages -- that counts for the whole instance -- it will be exceeded
within the first few days due to the initial surge, requiring
tweaking, if possible. Ten thousand messages is not much for a large,
distributed, culturally diverse group heavily entrenched in IRC, even
if it is a nice looking number. There should not be a limit on
recorded history such as that, lest it be forgotten every few months.

From a technological perspective, that puts both such a proposal and
the existing solution at direct odds. Having a proprietary third-party
be the gatekeepers to chat-based outlets is not a good prospect over
the long-term. For recorded history, eavesdrop, by far, exceeds that
imposed value, by sheer virtue of it existing.

In freemium offerings, much knowledge gets blown to the aether in
exchange for gifs and emoji reactions. In these situations, of course,
the users are, by default, the product. The long-term effects which
can have lasting effects on a large, multicultural, open source
project already under siege on certain fronts.

Production OpenStack deployments have usually hitched their wagon to
OpenStack: The Project for a multi-year effort at a minimum, which can
and tends to involve some level of activity in parts of the community
over that time. People come and go, but the long-term goals have
generally remained the same.

While the long-term ramifications of large FLOSS communities being on
freemium proprietary platforms are just beginning to be felt, they're
not quite to the point of inertia yet. Short of paying obscene amounts
of money for chat, FLOSS alternatives need to be championed, far above
any proprietary options with a free welcome mat, no matter how awesome
and feature-rich they may be.

Making a change of this order, this far in, is a drastic undertaking.
I've been witness and participant in a similar migration, which took
place a few years ago. It was heralded with much fanfare, a new day
for engagement. It was full-on party parrot, until it wasn't.

To this day, there are still IRC stragglers, with one or two
experienced -- sometimes self-appointed -- individuals that
tirelessly, asynchronously, answer softball questions and redirect to
the other outlets for the more involved.

Extended community channels, like development channels, are just kind
of left to rot, with a topic that says "Go over here >". There is
very little moderation, which develops a certain narrative all on its
own.

Today, that community on the free offering is quieter, more vibrant
and immediately knowledgeable, albeit at the expense of recorded
history. Questions take on a recurring theme at times, requiring
one-to-one or one-to-many engagement for every question. The person
wanting some fish tonight doesn't have a clean lake or stream to catch
their dinner.

Unfortunately, some of those long-term effects are beginning to be
felt as of recent, after "everyone" is off of IRC. Fewer long-term
maintainers are sticking around, and even fewer are stepping up to
replace them. On the upshot, there are more new users always finding
their way to the slick proprietary chat group.

-scas

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Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Ongoing spam in Freenode IRC channels

[Monty Taylor]

On 08/01/2018 08:17 AM, Andrey Kurilin wrote:



ср, 1 авг. 2018 г. в 15:37, Monty Taylor >:


On 08/01/2018 06:22 AM, Luigi Toscano wrote:
 > On Wednesday, 1 August 2018 12:49:13 CEST Andrey Kurilin wrote:
 >> Hey Ian and stackers!
 >>
 >> ср, 1 авг. 2018 г. в 8:45, Ian Wienand mailto:iwien...@redhat.com>>:
 >>> Hello,
 >>>
 >>> It seems freenode is currently receiving a lot of unsolicited
traffic
 >>> across all channels.  The freenode team are aware [1] and doing
their
 >>> best.
 >>>
 >>> There are not really a lot of options.  We can set "+r" on channels
 >>> which means only nickserv registered users can join channels. 
We have

 >>> traditionally avoided this, because it is yet one more barrier to
 >>> communication when many are already unfamiliar with IRC access.
 >>> However, having channels filled with irrelevant messages is
also not
 >>> very accessible.
 >>>
 >>> This is temporarily enabled in #openstack-infra for the time
being, so
 >>> we can co-ordinate without interruption.
 >>>
 >>> Thankfully AFAIK we have not needed an abuse policy on this before;
 >>> but I guess we are the point we need some sort of coordinated
 >>> response.
 >>>
 >>> I'd suggest to start, people with an interest in a channel can
request
 >>> +r from an IRC admin in #openstack-infra and we track it at [2] >>>
 >>> Longer term ... suggestions welcome? :)
 >>
 >> Move to Slack? We can provide auto-sending to emails invitations for
 >> joining by clicking the button on some page at openstack.org
. It will not
 >> add more berrier for new contributors and, at the same time,
this way will
 >> give some base filtering by emails at least.

slack is pretty unworkable for many reasons. The biggest of them is
that
it is not Open Source and we don't require OpenStack developers to use
proprietary software to work on OpenStack.

The quality of slack that makes it effective at fighting spam is also
the quality that makes it toxic as a community platform - the need for
an invitation and being structured as silos.

Even if we were to decide to abandon our Open Source principles and
leave behind those in our contributor base who believe that Free
Software Needs Free Tools [1] - moving to slack would be a GIANT
undertaking. As such, it would not be a very effective way to deal with
this current spam storm.

 > No, please no. If we need to move to another service, better go
to a FLOSS
 > one, like Matrix.org, or others.

We had some discussion in Vancouver about investigating the use of
Matrix. We are a VERY large community, so we need to do scale and
viability testing before it's even a worthy topic to raise with the TC
and the community for consideration. If we did, we'd aim to run our own
home server.


The last paragraph is the best answer why we never switch from IRC.
"we are a VERY large community"

Looking back at migration to Zuul V3: the project which is written by 
folks who
know potencial high-load and usage, the project which has a great 
background.
Some issues appeared only after launching it in production. Fortunately, 
Zuul-community

quickly fixed them and we have this great CI system now.

As for the FOSS alternatives for the Slack aka modern IRC, I did not 
heard anything
scalable for the size we need. Also, in case of any issues, they will 
not be fixed as

quickly as it was with Zull V3 (thank you folks!).


Yes. This is an excellent point. In fact, just trying to figure out how 
to properly test that a different choice can handle the scale is ... 
very hard at best.


Another issue, the alternative should be popular, modern and usable. IRC 
is the thing which

is used by a lot of communities (i.e. you do not need to install some
no-name tool to communicate for one more topic), the same for Slack and 
I suppose
some other tools havethe same popularity (but I do not have installed 
versions of them).
If the alternative doesn't feet these criteria, a lot of people will 
stay at Freenode and migration will fail.


Yup. Totally agree.


However, it's worth noting that matrix is not immune to spam. As an
open
federated protocol, it's a target as well. Running our own home server
might give us some additional tools - but it might not, and we might be
in the same scenario except now we're running another service and we
had
the pain of moving.

All that to say though, matrix seems like the best potential option
available that meets the largest number of desires from our user base.
Once we've checked it out for viability it might be worth discussing.

As above, any effort there is a pretty giant one that will require a
large amount of planning, a pretty sizeable amount of technical
   

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Ongoing spam in Freenode IRC channels

[James E. Blair]

Monty Taylor  writes:

> On 08/01/2018 12:45 AM, Ian Wienand wrote:
>> Hello,
>> I'd suggest to start, people with an interest in a channel can request
>> +r from an IRC admin in #openstack-infra and we track it at [2]
>
> To mitigate the pain caused by +r - we have created a channel called
> #openstack-unregistered and have configured the channels with the +r
> flag to forward people to it. We have also set an entrymsg on
> #openstack-unregistered to:
>
> "Due to a prolonged SPAM attack on freenode, we had to configure
> OpenStack channels to require users to be registered. If you are here,
> you tried to join a channel without being logged in. Please see
> https://freenode.net/kb/answer/registration for instructions on
> registration with NickServ, and make sure you are logged in."
>
> So anyone attempting to join a channel with +r should get that message.

It turns out this was a very popular option, so we've gone ahead and
performed this for all channels registered with accessbot.  If you're in
a channel that still needs this, please add it to the accessbot channel
list[1] and let us know in #openstack-infra.

Also, if folks would be willing to lurk in #openstack-unregistered to
help anyone who ends up there by surprise and is unfamiliar with how to
register with nickserv, that would be great.

-Jim

[1] 
https://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/project-config/tree/accessbot/channels.yaml

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Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Ongoing spam in Freenode IRC channels

[Anita Kuno]

On 2018-08-01 09:24 AM, Monty Taylor wrote:

On 08/01/2018 12:45 AM, Ian Wienand wrote:

Hello,

It seems freenode is currently receiving a lot of unsolicited traffic
across all channels.  The freenode team are aware [1] and doing their
best.

There are not really a lot of options.  We can set "+r" on channels
which means only nickserv registered users can join channels.  We have
traditionally avoided this, because it is yet one more barrier to
communication when many are already unfamiliar with IRC access.
However, having channels filled with irrelevant messages is also not
very accessible.

This is temporarily enabled in #openstack-infra for the time being, so
we can co-ordinate without interruption.

Thankfully AFAIK we have not needed an abuse policy on this before;
but I guess we are the point we need some sort of coordinated
response.

I'd suggest to start, people with an interest in a channel can request
+r from an IRC admin in #openstack-infra and we track it at [2]


To mitigate the pain caused by +r - we have created a channel called 
#openstack-unregistered and have configured the channels with the +r 
flag to forward people to it. We have also set an entrymsg on 
#openstack-unregistered to:


"Due to a prolonged SPAM attack on freenode, we had to configure 
OpenStack channels to require users to be registered. If you are here, 
you tried to join a channel without being logged in. Please see 
https://freenode.net/kb/answer/registration for instructions on 
registration with NickServ, and make sure you are logged in."


So anyone attempting to join a channel with +r should get that message.


I can confirm this worked for me as advertised with my nick unregistered.

Thank you,
Anita



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Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Ongoing spam in Freenode IRC channels

[Monty Taylor]

On 08/01/2018 08:38 AM, Jeremy Stanley wrote:

On 2018-08-01 09:58:48 -0300 (-0300), Rafael Weingärtner wrote:

What about Rocket chat instead of Slack? It is open source.
https://github.com/RocketChat/Rocket.Chat

Monty, what kind of evaluation would you guys need? I might be
able to help.


Consider reading and possibly resurrecting the infra spec for it:

 https://review.openstack.org/319506

My main concern is how we'll go about authenticating and policing
whatever gateway we set up. As soon as spammers and other abusers
find out there's an open (or nearly so) proxy to a major IRC
network, they'll use it to hide their origins from the IRC server
operators and put us in the middle of the problem.


To be clear -- I was not suggesting running matrix and IRC. I was 
suggesting investigating running a matrix home server and the 
permanently moving all openstack channels to it.


matrix synapse supports federated identity providers with saml and cas 
support implemented. I would imagine we'd want to configure it to 
federate to openstackid for logging in to the home server -so that might 
involve either adding saml support to openstackid or writing an 
openid-connect driver to synapse.


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Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Ongoing spam in Freenode IRC channels

[Thierry Carrez]

Monty Taylor wrote:

[...]
However, it's worth noting that matrix is not immune to spam. As an open 
federated protocol, it's a target as well. Running our own home server 
might give us some additional tools - but it might not, and we might be 
in the same scenario except now we're running another service and we had 
the pain of moving.

[...]


Any open communication platform is subject to spam. As long as you let 
anonymous users join and post stuff, it will happen as soon as the 
platform reaches a certain critical mass. Slack is not immune to this: 
it has spam too, and the platform being outside of your control 
limits[1] your options.


Freenode/IRC is a bit bad because it does not make it easy to /deal/ 
with spam. The protocol being designed at a time where it was costly to 
switch IPs, you can ignore people/hosts, but not messages based on key 
words. As we look into alternatives, we should evaluate their 
spam-filtering abilities...


[1] 
https://www.reddit.com/r/Slack/comments/71bd1h/need_help_preventing_pm_spam/


--
Thierry Carrez (ttx)

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Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Ongoing spam in Freenode IRC channels

[Jeremy Stanley]

On 2018-08-01 16:17:47 +0300 (+0300), Andrey Kurilin wrote:
[...]
> If the alternative doesn't feet these criteria, a lot of people
> will stay at Freenode and migration will fail.
[...]

We've had discussions off and on for years about moving from
Freenode to OFTC (whose ideals more closely reflect those of our
community), but even with that our biggest fear was disruption and
fracturing with some people holding conversations in one network and
some in the other.
-- 
Jeremy Stanley


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Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Ongoing spam in Freenode IRC channels

[Jeremy Stanley]

On 2018-08-01 09:58:48 -0300 (-0300), Rafael Weingärtner wrote:
> What about Rocket chat instead of Slack? It is open source.
> https://github.com/RocketChat/Rocket.Chat
> 
> Monty, what kind of evaluation would you guys need? I might be
> able to help.

Consider reading and possibly resurrecting the infra spec for it:

https://review.openstack.org/319506

My main concern is how we'll go about authenticating and policing
whatever gateway we set up. As soon as spammers and other abusers
find out there's an open (or nearly so) proxy to a major IRC
network, they'll use it to hide their origins from the IRC server
operators and put us in the middle of the problem.
-- 
Jeremy Stanley


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Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Ongoing spam in Freenode IRC channels

[Monty Taylor]

On 08/01/2018 12:45 AM, Ian Wienand wrote:

Hello,

It seems freenode is currently receiving a lot of unsolicited traffic
across all channels.  The freenode team are aware [1] and doing their
best.

There are not really a lot of options.  We can set "+r" on channels
which means only nickserv registered users can join channels.  We have
traditionally avoided this, because it is yet one more barrier to
communication when many are already unfamiliar with IRC access.
However, having channels filled with irrelevant messages is also not
very accessible.

This is temporarily enabled in #openstack-infra for the time being, so
we can co-ordinate without interruption.

Thankfully AFAIK we have not needed an abuse policy on this before;
but I guess we are the point we need some sort of coordinated
response.

I'd suggest to start, people with an interest in a channel can request
+r from an IRC admin in #openstack-infra and we track it at [2]


To mitigate the pain caused by +r - we have created a channel called 
#openstack-unregistered and have configured the channels with the +r 
flag to forward people to it. We have also set an entrymsg on 
#openstack-unregistered to:


"Due to a prolonged SPAM attack on freenode, we had to configure 
OpenStack channels to require users to be registered. If you are here, 
you tried to join a channel without being logged in. Please see 
https://freenode.net/kb/answer/registration for instructions on 
registration with NickServ, and make sure you are logged in."


So anyone attempting to join a channel with +r should get that message.

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Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Ongoing spam in Freenode IRC channels

[Andrey Kurilin]

ср, 1 авг. 2018 г. в 15:37, Monty Taylor :

> On 08/01/2018 06:22 AM, Luigi Toscano wrote:
> > On Wednesday, 1 August 2018 12:49:13 CEST Andrey Kurilin wrote:
> >> Hey Ian and stackers!
> >>
> >> ср, 1 авг. 2018 г. в 8:45, Ian Wienand :
> >>> Hello,
> >>>
> >>> It seems freenode is currently receiving a lot of unsolicited traffic
> >>> across all channels.  The freenode team are aware [1] and doing their
> >>> best.
> >>>
> >>> There are not really a lot of options.  We can set "+r" on channels
> >>> which means only nickserv registered users can join channels.  We have
> >>> traditionally avoided this, because it is yet one more barrier to
> >>> communication when many are already unfamiliar with IRC access.
> >>> However, having channels filled with irrelevant messages is also not
> >>> very accessible.
> >>>
> >>> This is temporarily enabled in #openstack-infra for the time being, so
> >>> we can co-ordinate without interruption.
> >>>
> >>> Thankfully AFAIK we have not needed an abuse policy on this before;
> >>> but I guess we are the point we need some sort of coordinated
> >>> response.
> >>>
> >>> I'd suggest to start, people with an interest in a channel can request
> >>> +r from an IRC admin in #openstack-infra and we track it at [2] >>>
> >>> Longer term ... suggestions welcome? :)
> >>
> >> Move to Slack? We can provide auto-sending to emails invitations for
> >> joining by clicking the button on some page at openstack.org. It will
> not
> >> add more berrier for new contributors and, at the same time, this way
> will
> >> give some base filtering by emails at least.
>
> slack is pretty unworkable for many reasons. The biggest of them is that
> it is not Open Source and we don't require OpenStack developers to use
> proprietary software to work on OpenStack.
>
> The quality of slack that makes it effective at fighting spam is also
> the quality that makes it toxic as a community platform - the need for
> an invitation and being structured as silos.
>
> Even if we were to decide to abandon our Open Source principles and
> leave behind those in our contributor base who believe that Free
> Software Needs Free Tools [1] - moving to slack would be a GIANT
> undertaking. As such, it would not be a very effective way to deal with
> this current spam storm.
>
> > No, please no. If we need to move to another service, better go to a
> FLOSS
> > one, like Matrix.org, or others.
>
> We had some discussion in Vancouver about investigating the use of
> Matrix. We are a VERY large community, so we need to do scale and
> viability testing before it's even a worthy topic to raise with the TC
> and the community for consideration. If we did, we'd aim to run our own
> home server.
>

The last paragraph is the best answer why we never switch from IRC.
"we are a VERY large community"

Looking back at migration to Zuul V3: the project which is written by folks
who
know potencial high-load and usage, the project which has a great
background.
Some issues appeared only after launching it in production. Fortunately,
Zuul-community
quickly fixed them and we have this great CI system now.

As for the FOSS alternatives for the Slack aka modern IRC, I did not heard
anything
scalable for the size we need. Also, in case of any issues, they will not
be fixed as
quickly as it was with Zull V3 (thank you folks!).

Another issue, the alternative should be popular, modern and usable. IRC is
the thing which
is used by a lot of communities (i.e. you do not need to install some
no-name tool to communicate for one more topic), the same for Slack and I
suppose
some other tools havethe same popularity (but I do not have installed
versions of them).
If the alternative doesn't feet these criteria, a lot of people will stay
at Freenode and migration will fail.


> However, it's worth noting that matrix is not immune to spam. As an open
> federated protocol, it's a target as well. Running our own home server
> might give us some additional tools - but it might not, and we might be
> in the same scenario except now we're running another service and we had
> the pain of moving.
>
> All that to say though, matrix seems like the best potential option
> available that meets the largest number of desires from our user base.
> Once we've checked it out for viability it might be worth discussing.
>
> As above, any effort there is a pretty giant one that will require a
> large amount of planning, a pretty sizeable amount of technical
> preparation and would be disruptive at the least, I don't think that'll
> help us with the current spam storm though.
>
> Monty
>
> [1] https://mako.cc/writing/hill-free_tools.html
>
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-- 
Best regards,
Andrey Kurilin.

Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Ongoing spam in Freenode IRC channels

[Rafael Weingärtner]

What about Rocket chat instead of Slack? It is open source.
https://github.com/RocketChat/Rocket.Chat

Monty, what kind of evaluation would you guys need? I might be able to help.


On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 9:54 AM, Monty Taylor  wrote:

> On 08/01/2018 07:44 AM, Doug Hellmann wrote:
>
>> Excerpts from Andrey Kurilin's message of 2018-08-01 15:21:37 +0300:
>>
>>> ср, 1 авг. 2018 г. в 14:11, Dmitry Tantsur :
>>>
>>> On 08/01/2018 12:49 PM, Andrey Kurilin wrote:

> Hey Ian and stackers!
>
> ср, 1 авг. 2018 г. в 8:45, Ian Wienand  >:
>
>  Hello,
>
>  It seems freenode is currently receiving a lot of unsolicited
> traffic
>  across all channels.  The freenode team are aware [1] and doing
> their
>  best.
>
>  There are not really a lot of options.  We can set "+r" on
> channels
>  which means only nickserv registered users can join channels.  We
>
 have

>  traditionally avoided this, because it is yet one more barrier to
>  communication when many are already unfamiliar with IRC access.
>  However, having channels filled with irrelevant messages is also
> not
>  very accessible.
>
>  This is temporarily enabled in #openstack-infra for the time
> being,
>
 so

>  we can co-ordinate without interruption.
>
>  Thankfully AFAIK we have not needed an abuse policy on this
> before;
>  but I guess we are the point we need some sort of coordinated
>  response.
>
>  I'd suggest to start, people with an interest in a channel can
>
 request

>  +r from an IRC admin in #openstack-infra and we track it at [2]
>
>  Longer term ... suggestions welcome? :)
>
>
> Move to Slack? We can provide auto-sending to emails invitations for
>
 joining by

> clicking the button on some page at openstack.org <
> http://openstack.org>.
>
 It

> will not add more berrier for new contributors and, at the same time,
>
 this way

> will give some base filtering by emails at least.
>

 A few potential barriers with slack or similar solutions: lack of FOSS
 desktop
 clients (correct me if I'm wrong),

>>>
>>>
>>> The second link from google search gives an opensource client written in
>>> python https://github.com/raelgc/scudcloud . Also, there is something
>>> which
>>> is written in golang.
>>>
>>> complete lack of any console clients (ditto),


>>> Again, google gives several ones as first results -
>>> https://github.com/evanyeung/terminal-slack
>>> https://github.com/erroneousboat/slack-term
>>>
>>> serious limits on free (as in beer) tariff plans.
>>>


 I can make an assumption that for marketing reasons, Slack Inc can
>>> propose
>>> extended Free plan.
>>> But anyway, even with default one the only thing which can limit us is
>>> `10,000 searchable messages` which is bigger than 0 (freenode doesn't
>>> store
>>> messages).
>>>
>>>
>>> Why I like slack? because a lot of people are familar with it (a lot of
>>> companies use it as like some opensource communities, like k8s )
>>>
>>> PS: I realize that OpenStack Community will never go away from Freenode
>>> and
>>> IRC, but I do not want to stay silent.
>>>
>>
>> We are unlikely to select slack because the platform itself is
>> proprietary, even if there are OSS clients. That said, there have
>> been some discussions about platforms such as Matrix, which is
>> similar to slack and also OSS.
>>
>> I think the main thing that is blocking any such move right now is
>> the fact that we're lacking someone with time to evaluate the tool
>> to see what it would take for us to run it. If you're interested in
>> this, maybe you can work with the infrastructure team to plan and
>> implement that evaluation?
>>
>
> In Vancouver I signed up to work on this - but so far it has been lower in
> priority than other tasks. I'll circle around with people today and see
> what we think about relative priorities.
>
> That said - Doug's invitation is quite valid - help would be welcome and
> I'd be happy to connect with someone who has time to help with this.
>
>
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Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Ongoing spam in Freenode IRC channels

[Monty Taylor]

On 08/01/2018 07:44 AM, Doug Hellmann wrote:

Excerpts from Andrey Kurilin's message of 2018-08-01 15:21:37 +0300:

ср, 1 авг. 2018 г. в 14:11, Dmitry Tantsur :


On 08/01/2018 12:49 PM, Andrey Kurilin wrote:

Hey Ian and stackers!

ср, 1 авг. 2018 г. в 8:45, Ian Wienand mailto:iwien...@redhat.com>>:

 Hello,

 It seems freenode is currently receiving a lot of unsolicited traffic
 across all channels.  The freenode team are aware [1] and doing their
 best.

 There are not really a lot of options.  We can set "+r" on channels
 which means only nickserv registered users can join channels.  We

have

 traditionally avoided this, because it is yet one more barrier to
 communication when many are already unfamiliar with IRC access.
 However, having channels filled with irrelevant messages is also not
 very accessible.

 This is temporarily enabled in #openstack-infra for the time being,

so

 we can co-ordinate without interruption.

 Thankfully AFAIK we have not needed an abuse policy on this before;
 but I guess we are the point we need some sort of coordinated
 response.

 I'd suggest to start, people with an interest in a channel can

request

 +r from an IRC admin in #openstack-infra and we track it at [2]

 Longer term ... suggestions welcome? :)


Move to Slack? We can provide auto-sending to emails invitations for

joining by

clicking the button on some page at openstack.org .

It

will not add more berrier for new contributors and, at the same time,

this way

will give some base filtering by emails at least.


A few potential barriers with slack or similar solutions: lack of FOSS
desktop
clients (correct me if I'm wrong),



The second link from google search gives an opensource client written in
python https://github.com/raelgc/scudcloud . Also, there is something which
is written in golang.


complete lack of any console clients (ditto),



Again, google gives several ones as first results -
https://github.com/evanyeung/terminal-slack
https://github.com/erroneousboat/slack-term

serious limits on free (as in beer) tariff plans.




I can make an assumption that for marketing reasons, Slack Inc can propose
extended Free plan.
But anyway, even with default one the only thing which can limit us is
`10,000 searchable messages` which is bigger than 0 (freenode doesn't store
messages).


Why I like slack? because a lot of people are familar with it (a lot of
companies use it as like some opensource communities, like k8s )

PS: I realize that OpenStack Community will never go away from Freenode and
IRC, but I do not want to stay silent.


We are unlikely to select slack because the platform itself is
proprietary, even if there are OSS clients. That said, there have
been some discussions about platforms such as Matrix, which is
similar to slack and also OSS.

I think the main thing that is blocking any such move right now is
the fact that we're lacking someone with time to evaluate the tool
to see what it would take for us to run it. If you're interested in
this, maybe you can work with the infrastructure team to plan and
implement that evaluation?


In Vancouver I signed up to work on this - but so far it has been lower 
in priority than other tasks. I'll circle around with people today and 
see what we think about relative priorities.


That said - Doug's invitation is quite valid - help would be welcome and 
I'd be happy to connect with someone who has time to help with this.


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Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Ongoing spam in Freenode IRC channels

[Graham Hayes]

On 01/08/2018 13:21, Andrey Kurilin wrote:
> 



> 
> The second link from google search gives an opensource client written in
> python https://github.com/raelgc/scudcloud . Also, there is something
> which is written in golang.
>  
> 
> complete lack of any console clients (ditto),
> 
> 
> Again, google gives several ones as first results -
> https://github.com/evanyeung/terminal-slack
> https://github.com/erroneousboat/slack-term
> 



Any unoffical slack client needs to use "Legacy Tokens"[1]

> You're reading this because you're looking for info on legacy
> custom integrations - an outdated way for teams to integrate with
> Slack. These integrations lack newer features and they will be
> deprecated and possibly removed in the future. *We do not recommend
> their use.*

Legacy tokens can go away (just like the XMPP and IRC gateway did) at
any point, and we will be back in the same situation.

1 - https://api.slack.com/custom-integrations/legacy-tokens



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Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Ongoing spam in Freenode IRC channels

[Dmitry Tantsur]

On 08/01/2018 02:21 PM, Andrey Kurilin wrote:



ср, 1 авг. 2018 г. в 14:11, Dmitry Tantsur >:


On 08/01/2018 12:49 PM, Andrey Kurilin wrote:
 > Hey Ian and stackers!
 >
 > ср, 1 авг. 2018 г. в 8:45, Ian Wienand mailto:iwien...@redhat.com>
 > >>:
 >
 >     Hello,
 >
 >     It seems freenode is currently receiving a lot of unsolicited traffic
 >     across all channels.  The freenode team are aware [1] and doing their
 >     best.
 >
 >     There are not really a lot of options.  We can set "+r" on channels
 >     which means only nickserv registered users can join channels.  We 
have
 >     traditionally avoided this, because it is yet one more barrier to
 >     communication when many are already unfamiliar with IRC access.
 >     However, having channels filled with irrelevant messages is also not
 >     very accessible.
 >
 >     This is temporarily enabled in #openstack-infra for the time being, 
so
 >     we can co-ordinate without interruption.
 >
 >     Thankfully AFAIK we have not needed an abuse policy on this before;
 >     but I guess we are the point we need some sort of coordinated
 >     response.
 >
 >     I'd suggest to start, people with an interest in a channel can 
request
 >     +r from an IRC admin in #openstack-infra and we track it at [2]
 >
 >     Longer term ... suggestions welcome? :)
 >
 >
 > Move to Slack? We can provide auto-sending to emails invitations for
joining by
 > clicking the button on some page at openstack.org 
. It
 > will not add more berrier for new contributors and, at the same time,
this way
 > will give some base filtering by emails at least.

A few potential barriers with slack or similar solutions: lack of FOSS 
desktop
clients (correct me if I'm wrong), 



The second link from google search gives an opensource client written in python 
https://github.com/raelgc/scudcloud . Also, there is something which is written 
in golang.


The bad thing about non-official clients is that they come and go. An even worse 
thing is that Slack can (in theory) prevent them from operating or make it 
illegal (remember ICQ's attempts to ban unofficial clients?).


And I agree with Doug that non-free server part can be an issue as well. As the 
very least, we end being locked into their service.




complete lack of any console clients (ditto),


Again, google gives several ones as first results - 
https://github.com/evanyeung/terminal-slack 
https://github.com/erroneousboat/slack-term


Okay, I stand corrected here.



serious limits on free (as in beer) tariff plans.


I can make an assumption that for marketing reasons, Slack Inc can propose 
extended Free plan.


Are there precedents of them doing such a thing? Otherwise I would not count on 
it. Especially if they don't commit to providing it for free forever.


But anyway, even with default one the only thing which can limit us is `10,000 
searchable messages` which is bigger than 0 (freenode doesn't store messages).


Well, my IRC bouncer has messages for years :) I understand it's not a 
comparable solution, but I do have a way to find a message that happened a year 
ago. Not with slack.




Why I like slack? because a lot of people are familar with it (a lot of 
companies use it as like some opensource communities, like k8s )


PS: I realize that OpenStack Community will never go away from Freenode and IRC, 
but I do not want to stay silent.


I'd not mind at all to move to a more modern *FOSS* system. If we consider 
paying for Slack, we can consider hosting Matrix/Rocket/whatever as well.


Dmitry



 >
 >     -i
 >
 >     [1] https://freenode.net/news/spambot-attack
 >     [2] https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/freenode-plus-r-08-2018
 >
 >   
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 > http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
 >
 >
 >
 > --
 > Best regards,
 > Andrey Kurilin.
 >
 >
 > 
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Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Ongoing spam in Freenode IRC channels

[Doug Hellmann]

Excerpts from Andrey Kurilin's message of 2018-08-01 15:21:37 +0300:
> ср, 1 авг. 2018 г. в 14:11, Dmitry Tantsur :
> 
> > On 08/01/2018 12:49 PM, Andrey Kurilin wrote:
> > > Hey Ian and stackers!
> > >
> > > ср, 1 авг. 2018 г. в 8:45, Ian Wienand  > > >:
> > >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > It seems freenode is currently receiving a lot of unsolicited traffic
> > > across all channels.  The freenode team are aware [1] and doing their
> > > best.
> > >
> > > There are not really a lot of options.  We can set "+r" on channels
> > > which means only nickserv registered users can join channels.  We
> > have
> > > traditionally avoided this, because it is yet one more barrier to
> > > communication when many are already unfamiliar with IRC access.
> > > However, having channels filled with irrelevant messages is also not
> > > very accessible.
> > >
> > > This is temporarily enabled in #openstack-infra for the time being,
> > so
> > > we can co-ordinate without interruption.
> > >
> > > Thankfully AFAIK we have not needed an abuse policy on this before;
> > > but I guess we are the point we need some sort of coordinated
> > > response.
> > >
> > > I'd suggest to start, people with an interest in a channel can
> > request
> > > +r from an IRC admin in #openstack-infra and we track it at [2]
> > >
> > > Longer term ... suggestions welcome? :)
> > >
> > >
> > > Move to Slack? We can provide auto-sending to emails invitations for
> > joining by
> > > clicking the button on some page at openstack.org .
> > It
> > > will not add more berrier for new contributors and, at the same time,
> > this way
> > > will give some base filtering by emails at least.
> >
> > A few potential barriers with slack or similar solutions: lack of FOSS
> > desktop
> > clients (correct me if I'm wrong),
> 
> 
> The second link from google search gives an opensource client written in
> python https://github.com/raelgc/scudcloud . Also, there is something which
> is written in golang.
> 
> > complete lack of any console clients (ditto),
> >
> 
> Again, google gives several ones as first results -
> https://github.com/evanyeung/terminal-slack
> https://github.com/erroneousboat/slack-term
> 
> serious limits on free (as in beer) tariff plans.
> >
> >
> I can make an assumption that for marketing reasons, Slack Inc can propose
> extended Free plan.
> But anyway, even with default one the only thing which can limit us is
> `10,000 searchable messages` which is bigger than 0 (freenode doesn't store
> messages).
> 
> 
> Why I like slack? because a lot of people are familar with it (a lot of
> companies use it as like some opensource communities, like k8s )
> 
> PS: I realize that OpenStack Community will never go away from Freenode and
> IRC, but I do not want to stay silent.

We are unlikely to select slack because the platform itself is
proprietary, even if there are OSS clients. That said, there have
been some discussions about platforms such as Matrix, which is
similar to slack and also OSS.

I think the main thing that is blocking any such move right now is
the fact that we're lacking someone with time to evaluate the tool
to see what it would take for us to run it. If you're interested in
this, maybe you can work with the infrastructure team to plan and
implement that evaluation?

Doug

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Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Ongoing spam in Freenode IRC channels

[Monty Taylor]

On 08/01/2018 06:22 AM, Luigi Toscano wrote:

On Wednesday, 1 August 2018 12:49:13 CEST Andrey Kurilin wrote:

Hey Ian and stackers!

ср, 1 авг. 2018 г. в 8:45, Ian Wienand :

Hello,

It seems freenode is currently receiving a lot of unsolicited traffic
across all channels.  The freenode team are aware [1] and doing their
best.

There are not really a lot of options.  We can set "+r" on channels
which means only nickserv registered users can join channels.  We have
traditionally avoided this, because it is yet one more barrier to
communication when many are already unfamiliar with IRC access.
However, having channels filled with irrelevant messages is also not
very accessible.

This is temporarily enabled in #openstack-infra for the time being, so
we can co-ordinate without interruption.

Thankfully AFAIK we have not needed an abuse policy on this before;
but I guess we are the point we need some sort of coordinated
response.

I'd suggest to start, people with an interest in a channel can request
+r from an IRC admin in #openstack-infra and we track it at [2] >>>
Longer term ... suggestions welcome? :)


Move to Slack? We can provide auto-sending to emails invitations for
joining by clicking the button on some page at openstack.org. It will not
add more berrier for new contributors and, at the same time, this way will
give some base filtering by emails at least.


slack is pretty unworkable for many reasons. The biggest of them is that 
it is not Open Source and we don't require OpenStack developers to use 
proprietary software to work on OpenStack.


The quality of slack that makes it effective at fighting spam is also 
the quality that makes it toxic as a community platform - the need for 
an invitation and being structured as silos.


Even if we were to decide to abandon our Open Source principles and 
leave behind those in our contributor base who believe that Free 
Software Needs Free Tools [1] - moving to slack would be a GIANT 
undertaking. As such, it would not be a very effective way to deal with 
this current spam storm.



No, please no. If we need to move to another service, better go to a FLOSS
one, like Matrix.org, or others.


We had some discussion in Vancouver about investigating the use of 
Matrix. We are a VERY large community, so we need to do scale and 
viability testing before it's even a worthy topic to raise with the TC 
and the community for consideration. If we did, we'd aim to run our own 
home server.


However, it's worth noting that matrix is not immune to spam. As an open 
federated protocol, it's a target as well. Running our own home server 
might give us some additional tools - but it might not, and we might be 
in the same scenario except now we're running another service and we had 
the pain of moving.


All that to say though, matrix seems like the best potential option 
available that meets the largest number of desires from our user base. 
Once we've checked it out for viability it might be worth discussing.


As above, any effort there is a pretty giant one that will require a 
large amount of planning, a pretty sizeable amount of technical 
preparation and would be disruptive at the least, I don't think that'll 
help us with the current spam storm though.


Monty

[1] https://mako.cc/writing/hill-free_tools.html

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Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Ongoing spam in Freenode IRC channels

[Andrey Kurilin]

ср, 1 авг. 2018 г. в 14:11, Dmitry Tantsur :

> On 08/01/2018 12:49 PM, Andrey Kurilin wrote:
> > Hey Ian and stackers!
> >
> > ср, 1 авг. 2018 г. в 8:45, Ian Wienand  > >:
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > It seems freenode is currently receiving a lot of unsolicited traffic
> > across all channels.  The freenode team are aware [1] and doing their
> > best.
> >
> > There are not really a lot of options.  We can set "+r" on channels
> > which means only nickserv registered users can join channels.  We
> have
> > traditionally avoided this, because it is yet one more barrier to
> > communication when many are already unfamiliar with IRC access.
> > However, having channels filled with irrelevant messages is also not
> > very accessible.
> >
> > This is temporarily enabled in #openstack-infra for the time being,
> so
> > we can co-ordinate without interruption.
> >
> > Thankfully AFAIK we have not needed an abuse policy on this before;
> > but I guess we are the point we need some sort of coordinated
> > response.
> >
> > I'd suggest to start, people with an interest in a channel can
> request
> > +r from an IRC admin in #openstack-infra and we track it at [2]
> >
> > Longer term ... suggestions welcome? :)
> >
> >
> > Move to Slack? We can provide auto-sending to emails invitations for
> joining by
> > clicking the button on some page at openstack.org .
> It
> > will not add more berrier for new contributors and, at the same time,
> this way
> > will give some base filtering by emails at least.
>
> A few potential barriers with slack or similar solutions: lack of FOSS
> desktop
> clients (correct me if I'm wrong),


The second link from google search gives an opensource client written in
python https://github.com/raelgc/scudcloud . Also, there is something which
is written in golang.


> complete lack of any console clients (ditto),
>

Again, google gives several ones as first results -
https://github.com/evanyeung/terminal-slack
https://github.com/erroneousboat/slack-term

serious limits on free (as in beer) tariff plans.
>
>
I can make an assumption that for marketing reasons, Slack Inc can propose
extended Free plan.
But anyway, even with default one the only thing which can limit us is
`10,000 searchable messages` which is bigger than 0 (freenode doesn't store
messages).


Why I like slack? because a lot of people are familar with it (a lot of
companies use it as like some opensource communities, like k8s )

PS: I realize that OpenStack Community will never go away from Freenode and
IRC, but I do not want to stay silent.

>
> > -i
> >
> > [1] https://freenode.net/news/spambot-attack
> > [2] https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/freenode-plus-r-08-2018
> >
> >
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Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Ongoing spam in Freenode IRC channels

[Luigi Toscano]

On Wednesday, 1 August 2018 13:12:49 CEST András Kövi wrote:
> These are not just spam messages. At least the ones hitting Mistral are
> pedophile content. This must be reported. Can someone help me where?
> THX,
> A

They are already known:

https://freenode.net/news/spambot-attack

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Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Ongoing spam in Freenode IRC channels

[Luigi Toscano]

On Wednesday, 1 August 2018 12:49:13 CEST Andrey Kurilin wrote:
> Hey Ian and stackers!
> 
> ср, 1 авг. 2018 г. в 8:45, Ian Wienand :
> > Hello,
> > 
> > It seems freenode is currently receiving a lot of unsolicited traffic
> > across all channels.  The freenode team are aware [1] and doing their
> > best.
> > 
> > There are not really a lot of options.  We can set "+r" on channels
> > which means only nickserv registered users can join channels.  We have
> > traditionally avoided this, because it is yet one more barrier to
> > communication when many are already unfamiliar with IRC access.
> > However, having channels filled with irrelevant messages is also not
> > very accessible.
> > 
> > This is temporarily enabled in #openstack-infra for the time being, so
> > we can co-ordinate without interruption.
> > 
> > Thankfully AFAIK we have not needed an abuse policy on this before;
> > but I guess we are the point we need some sort of coordinated
> > response.
> > 
> > I'd suggest to start, people with an interest in a channel can request
> > +r from an IRC admin in #openstack-infra and we track it at [2]
> > 
> > Longer term ... suggestions welcome? :)
> 
> Move to Slack? We can provide auto-sending to emails invitations for
> joining by clicking the button on some page at openstack.org. It will not
> add more berrier for new contributors and, at the same time, this way will
> give some base filtering by emails at least.

No, please no. If we need to move to another service, better go to a FLOSS 
one, like Matrix.org, or others.

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Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Ongoing spam in Freenode IRC channels

[András Kövi]

These are not just spam messages. At least the ones hitting Mistral are
pedophile content. This must be reported. Can someone help me where?
THX,
A

Andrey Kurilin  ezt írta (időpont: 2018. aug. 1.,
Sze, 12:49):

> Hey Ian and stackers!
>
> ср, 1 авг. 2018 г. в 8:45, Ian Wienand :
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> It seems freenode is currently receiving a lot of unsolicited traffic
>> across all channels.  The freenode team are aware [1] and doing their
>> best.
>>
>> There are not really a lot of options.  We can set "+r" on channels
>> which means only nickserv registered users can join channels.  We have
>> traditionally avoided this, because it is yet one more barrier to
>> communication when many are already unfamiliar with IRC access.
>> However, having channels filled with irrelevant messages is also not
>> very accessible.
>>
>> This is temporarily enabled in #openstack-infra for the time being, so
>> we can co-ordinate without interruption.
>>
>> Thankfully AFAIK we have not needed an abuse policy on this before;
>> but I guess we are the point we need some sort of coordinated
>> response.
>>
>> I'd suggest to start, people with an interest in a channel can request
>> +r from an IRC admin in #openstack-infra and we track it at [2]
>>
>> Longer term ... suggestions welcome? :)
>>
>>
> Move to Slack? We can provide auto-sending to emails invitations for
> joining by clicking the button on some page at openstack.org. It will not
> add more berrier for new contributors and, at the same time, this way will
> give some base filtering by emails at least.
>
>
>> -i
>>
>> [1] https://freenode.net/news/spambot-attack
>> [2] https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/freenode-plus-r-08-2018
>>
>> __
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>
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Andrey Kurilin.
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Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Ongoing spam in Freenode IRC channels

[Dmitry Tantsur]

On 08/01/2018 12:49 PM, Andrey Kurilin wrote:

Hey Ian and stackers!

ср, 1 авг. 2018 г. в 8:45, Ian Wienand >:


Hello,

It seems freenode is currently receiving a lot of unsolicited traffic
across all channels.  The freenode team are aware [1] and doing their
best.

There are not really a lot of options.  We can set "+r" on channels
which means only nickserv registered users can join channels.  We have
traditionally avoided this, because it is yet one more barrier to
communication when many are already unfamiliar with IRC access.
However, having channels filled with irrelevant messages is also not
very accessible.

This is temporarily enabled in #openstack-infra for the time being, so
we can co-ordinate without interruption.

Thankfully AFAIK we have not needed an abuse policy on this before;
but I guess we are the point we need some sort of coordinated
response.

I'd suggest to start, people with an interest in a channel can request
+r from an IRC admin in #openstack-infra and we track it at [2]

Longer term ... suggestions welcome? :)


Move to Slack? We can provide auto-sending to emails invitations for joining by 
clicking the button on some page at openstack.org . It 
will not add more berrier for new contributors and, at the same time, this way 
will give some base filtering by emails at least.


A few potential barriers with slack or similar solutions: lack of FOSS desktop 
clients (correct me if I'm wrong), complete lack of any console clients (ditto), 
serious limits on free (as in beer) tariff plans.




-i

[1] https://freenode.net/news/spambot-attack
[2] https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/freenode-plus-r-08-2018

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Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Ongoing spam in Freenode IRC channels

[Andrey Kurilin]

Hey Ian and stackers!

ср, 1 авг. 2018 г. в 8:45, Ian Wienand :

> Hello,
>
> It seems freenode is currently receiving a lot of unsolicited traffic
> across all channels.  The freenode team are aware [1] and doing their
> best.
>
> There are not really a lot of options.  We can set "+r" on channels
> which means only nickserv registered users can join channels.  We have
> traditionally avoided this, because it is yet one more barrier to
> communication when many are already unfamiliar with IRC access.
> However, having channels filled with irrelevant messages is also not
> very accessible.
>
> This is temporarily enabled in #openstack-infra for the time being, so
> we can co-ordinate without interruption.
>
> Thankfully AFAIK we have not needed an abuse policy on this before;
> but I guess we are the point we need some sort of coordinated
> response.
>
> I'd suggest to start, people with an interest in a channel can request
> +r from an IRC admin in #openstack-infra and we track it at [2]
>
> Longer term ... suggestions welcome? :)
>
>
Move to Slack? We can provide auto-sending to emails invitations for
joining by clicking the button on some page at openstack.org. It will not
add more berrier for new contributors and, at the same time, this way will
give some base filtering by emails at least.


> -i
>
> [1] https://freenode.net/news/spambot-attack
> [2] https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/freenode-plus-r-08-2018
>
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Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Ongoing spam in Freenode IRC channels

[Dmitry Tantsur]

Is it possible to ignore message or kick users by keywords? It seems that most 
messages are more or less the same and include a few URLs that are unlikely to 
appear in a normal conversation.


On 08/01/2018 07:45 AM, Ian Wienand wrote:

Hello,

It seems freenode is currently receiving a lot of unsolicited traffic
across all channels.  The freenode team are aware [1] and doing their
best.

There are not really a lot of options.  We can set "+r" on channels
which means only nickserv registered users can join channels.  We have
traditionally avoided this, because it is yet one more barrier to
communication when many are already unfamiliar with IRC access.
However, having channels filled with irrelevant messages is also not
very accessible.

This is temporarily enabled in #openstack-infra for the time being, so
we can co-ordinate without interruption.

Thankfully AFAIK we have not needed an abuse policy on this before;
but I guess we are the point we need some sort of coordinated
response.

I'd suggest to start, people with an interest in a channel can request
+r from an IRC admin in #openstack-infra and we track it at [2]

Longer term ... suggestions welcome? :)

-i

[1] https://freenode.net/news/spambot-attack
[2] https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/freenode-plus-r-08-2018

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Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Ongoing spam in Freenode IRC channels

[Luigi Toscano]

On Wednesday, 1 August 2018 07:45:02 CEST Ian Wienand wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> It seems freenode is currently receiving a lot of unsolicited traffic
> across all channels.  The freenode team are aware [1] and doing their
> best.
> 
> There are not really a lot of options.  We can set "+r" on channels
> which means only nickserv registered users can join channels.  We have
> traditionally avoided this, because it is yet one more barrier to
> communication when many are already unfamiliar with IRC access.
> However, having channels filled with irrelevant messages is also not
> very accessible.

What about inviting Sigyn, the anti-spam bot of the freenode admins, to all 
channels? Unless it does not trigger some global limit in Sigyn, but people on 
#freenode should be able to help.


Ciao
-- 
Luigi



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