Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] Heads up for out-of-tree drivers: supports_recreate -> supports_evacuate

2018-04-19 Thread Jay Pipes 

On 04/19/2018 12:27 PM, Matt Riedemann wrote:

On 4/19/2018 11:06 AM, Matthew Booth wrote:

I'm ambivalent, tbh, but I think it's better to pick one. I thought
we'd picked 'evacuate' based on the TODOs from Matt R:

http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/nova/tree/nova/compute/manager.py#n2985 

http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/nova/tree/nova/compute/manager.py#n3093 



Incidentally, this isn't at all core to what I'm working on, but I'm
about to start poking it and thought I'd tidy up as I go (as is my
wont). If there's discussion to be had I don't mind dropping this and
moving on.


For reference, I started this rolling ball:

https://review.openstack.org/#/c/508190/

The internal 'recreate' argument to rebuild was always a thorn in my 
side so I renamed it to evacuate because that's what the operation is 
called in the API, how it shows up in bug reports, and how we talk about 
it in IRC. We don't talk about the "recreate" operation, we talk about 
evacuate.


Completely re-doing the end-user API experience with evacuate and 
rebuild including internal plumbing changes is orthogonal to this 
cleanup IMO because we can do the cleanup now to avoid existing 
maintainer confusion rather than hold it up for something that no one is 
working on.


I was only asking a question. I wasn't trying to hold anything up.

-jay

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Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] Heads up for out-of-tree drivers: supports_recreate -> supports_evacuate

2018-04-19 Thread Matt Riedemann 

On 4/19/2018 10:46 AM, Chris Friesen wrote:
 From the CLI perspective, it makes no sense that "nova evacuate" 
operates after a host is already down, but "nova evacuate-live" operates 
on a running host.


http://www.danplanet.com/blog/2016/03/03/evacuate-in-nova-one-command-to-confuse-us-all/

If people feel this strongly about the name of the "nova 
host-evacuate-live" CLI, they should propose changes to rename it (or 
deprecate it if it's dangerous and shouldn't exist).


How about deprecating "nova host-evacuate-live" and just add a --batch 
option to the existing "nova live-migration" CLI if people want to 
retain the functionality but hate the other name.


--

Thanks,

Matt

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Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] Heads up for out-of-tree drivers: supports_recreate -> supports_evacuate

2018-04-19 Thread Matt Riedemann 

On 4/19/2018 11:06 AM, Matthew Booth wrote:

I'm ambivalent, tbh, but I think it's better to pick one. I thought
we'd picked 'evacuate' based on the TODOs from Matt R:

http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/nova/tree/nova/compute/manager.py#n2985
http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/nova/tree/nova/compute/manager.py#n3093

Incidentally, this isn't at all core to what I'm working on, but I'm
about to start poking it and thought I'd tidy up as I go (as is my
wont). If there's discussion to be had I don't mind dropping this and
moving on.


For reference, I started this rolling ball:

https://review.openstack.org/#/c/508190/

The internal 'recreate' argument to rebuild was always a thorn in my 
side so I renamed it to evacuate because that's what the operation is 
called in the API, how it shows up in bug reports, and how we talk about 
it in IRC. We don't talk about the "recreate" operation, we talk about 
evacuate.


Completely re-doing the end-user API experience with evacuate and 
rebuild including internal plumbing changes is orthogonal to this 
cleanup IMO because we can do the cleanup now to avoid existing 
maintainer confusion rather than hold it up for something that no one is 
working on.


--

Thanks,

Matt

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Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] Heads up for out-of-tree drivers: supports_recreate -> supports_evacuate

2018-04-19 Thread Matthew Booth 
On 19 April 2018 at 16:46, Chris Friesen  wrote:
> On 04/19/2018 08:33 AM, Jay Pipes wrote:
>>
>> On 04/19/2018 09:15 AM, Matthew Booth wrote:
>>>
>>> We've had inconsistent naming of recreate/evacuate in Nova for a long
>>> time, and it will persist in a couple of places for a while more.
>>> However, I've proposed the following to rename 'recreate' to
>>> 'evacuate' everywhere with no rpc/api impact here:
>>>
>>> https://review.openstack.org/560900
>>>
>>> One of the things which is renamed is the driver 'supports_recreate'
>>> capability, which I've renamed to 'supports_evacuate'. The above
>>> change updates this for in-tree drivers, but as noted in review this
>>> would impact out-of-tree drivers. If this might affect you, please
>>> follow the above in case it merges.
>>
>>
>> I have to admit, Matt, I'm a bit confused by this. I was under the
>> impression
>> that we were trying to *remove* uses of the term "evacuate" as much as
>> possible
>> because that term is not adequately descriptive of the operation and terms
>> like
>> "recreate" were more descriptive?
>
>
> This is a good point.
>
> Personally I'd prefer to see it go the other way and convert everything to
> the "recreate" terminology, including the external API.
>
> From the CLI perspective, it makes no sense that "nova evacuate" operates
> after a host is already down, but "nova evacuate-live" operates on a running
> host.

A bit OT, but evacuate-live probably shouldn't exist at all for a
variety of reasons. The implementation is shonky, it's doing
orchestration in the CLI, and the name is misleading, as you say.

Matt
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Matthew Booth
Red Hat OpenStack Engineer, Compute DFG

Phone: +442070094448 (UK)

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Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] Heads up for out-of-tree drivers: supports_recreate -> supports_evacuate

2018-04-19 Thread Matthew Booth 
On 19 April 2018 at 15:33, Jay Pipes  wrote:
> On 04/19/2018 09:15 AM, Matthew Booth wrote:
>>
>> We've had inconsistent naming of recreate/evacuate in Nova for a long
>> time, and it will persist in a couple of places for a while more.
>> However, I've proposed the following to rename 'recreate' to
>> 'evacuate' everywhere with no rpc/api impact here:
>>
>> https://review.openstack.org/560900
>>
>> One of the things which is renamed is the driver 'supports_recreate'
>> capability, which I've renamed to 'supports_evacuate'. The above
>> change updates this for in-tree drivers, but as noted in review this
>> would impact out-of-tree drivers. If this might affect you, please
>> follow the above in case it merges.
>
>
> I have to admit, Matt, I'm a bit confused by this. I was under the
> impression that we were trying to *remove* uses of the term "evacuate" as
> much as possible because that term is not adequately descriptive of the
> operation and terms like "recreate" were more descriptive?

I'm ambivalent, tbh, but I think it's better to pick one. I thought
we'd picked 'evacuate' based on the TODOs from Matt R:

http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/nova/tree/nova/compute/manager.py#n2985
http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/nova/tree/nova/compute/manager.py#n3093

Incidentally, this isn't at all core to what I'm working on, but I'm
about to start poking it and thought I'd tidy up as I go (as is my
wont). If there's discussion to be had I don't mind dropping this and
moving on.

Matt
-- 
Matthew Booth
Red Hat OpenStack Engineer, Compute DFG

Phone: +442070094448 (UK)

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Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] Heads up for out-of-tree drivers: supports_recreate -> supports_evacuate

2018-04-19 Thread Chris Friesen 

On 04/19/2018 08:33 AM, Jay Pipes wrote:

On 04/19/2018 09:15 AM, Matthew Booth wrote:

We've had inconsistent naming of recreate/evacuate in Nova for a long
time, and it will persist in a couple of places for a while more.
However, I've proposed the following to rename 'recreate' to
'evacuate' everywhere with no rpc/api impact here:

https://review.openstack.org/560900

One of the things which is renamed is the driver 'supports_recreate'
capability, which I've renamed to 'supports_evacuate'. The above
change updates this for in-tree drivers, but as noted in review this
would impact out-of-tree drivers. If this might affect you, please
follow the above in case it merges.


I have to admit, Matt, I'm a bit confused by this. I was under the impression
that we were trying to *remove* uses of the term "evacuate" as much as possible
because that term is not adequately descriptive of the operation and terms like
"recreate" were more descriptive?


This is a good point.

Personally I'd prefer to see it go the other way and convert everything to the 
"recreate" terminology, including the external API.


From the CLI perspective, it makes no sense that "nova evacuate" operates after 
a host is already down, but "nova evacuate-live" operates on a running host.


Chris

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Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] Heads up for out-of-tree drivers: supports_recreate -> supports_evacuate

2018-04-19 Thread Jay Pipes 

On 04/19/2018 09:15 AM, Matthew Booth wrote:

We've had inconsistent naming of recreate/evacuate in Nova for a long
time, and it will persist in a couple of places for a while more.
However, I've proposed the following to rename 'recreate' to
'evacuate' everywhere with no rpc/api impact here:

https://review.openstack.org/560900

One of the things which is renamed is the driver 'supports_recreate'
capability, which I've renamed to 'supports_evacuate'. The above
change updates this for in-tree drivers, but as noted in review this
would impact out-of-tree drivers. If this might affect you, please
follow the above in case it merges.


I have to admit, Matt, I'm a bit confused by this. I was under the 
impression that we were trying to *remove* uses of the term "evacuate" 
as much as possible because that term is not adequately descriptive of 
the operation and terms like "recreate" were more descriptive?


Best,
-jay

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