Re: [openstack-dev] [ptg] How to slice the week to minimize conflicts
I had expected more cinder/nova sessions the first days, so I like that proposal. If we are able to minimize project overlap or have alternatives the last 3 days I think we are moving towards a better solution. Jay On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 9:18 AM Thierry Carrez wrote: > Emilien Macchi wrote: > > On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 5:27 AM, Thierry Carrez > wrote: > >> After giving it some thought, my current thinking is that we should > >> still split the week in two, but should move away from an arbitrary > >> horizontal/vertical split. My strawman proposal would be to split the > >> week between inter-project work (+ teams that rely mostly on liaisons in > >> other teams) on Monday-Tuesday, and team-specific work on > Wednesday-Friday: > >> > >> Example of Monday-Tuesday rooms: > >> Interop WG, Docs, QA, API WG, Packaging WG, Oslo, Goals helproom, > >> Infra/RelMgt/support teams helpdesk, TC/SWG room, VM&BM Working group... > >> > >> Example of Wednesday-Thursday or Wednesday-Friday rooms: > >> Nova, Cinder, Neutron, Swift, TripleO, Kolla, Infra... > > > > I like the idea of continuing to have Deployment tools part of > > vertical projects room. > > Though once it's confirmed, I would like to setup a 2 hours slot where > > we meet together and make some cross-deployment-project collaboration. > > In Atlanta, we managed to do it on last minute and I found it > > extremely useful, let's repeat this but scheduled this time. > > Actually if you look above, I added the "Packaging WG" in the > Monday-Tuesday rooms example. You could easily have 1 or 2 days there to > discuss collaboration between packaging projects, before breaking out > for 2 or 3 days with your own project team. > > -- > Thierry Carrez (ttx) > > __ > OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) > Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe > http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev > __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [ptg] How to slice the week to minimize conflicts
Emilien Macchi wrote: > On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 5:27 AM, Thierry Carrez wrote: >> After giving it some thought, my current thinking is that we should >> still split the week in two, but should move away from an arbitrary >> horizontal/vertical split. My strawman proposal would be to split the >> week between inter-project work (+ teams that rely mostly on liaisons in >> other teams) on Monday-Tuesday, and team-specific work on Wednesday-Friday: >> >> Example of Monday-Tuesday rooms: >> Interop WG, Docs, QA, API WG, Packaging WG, Oslo, Goals helproom, >> Infra/RelMgt/support teams helpdesk, TC/SWG room, VM&BM Working group... >> >> Example of Wednesday-Thursday or Wednesday-Friday rooms: >> Nova, Cinder, Neutron, Swift, TripleO, Kolla, Infra... > > I like the idea of continuing to have Deployment tools part of > vertical projects room. > Though once it's confirmed, I would like to setup a 2 hours slot where > we meet together and make some cross-deployment-project collaboration. > In Atlanta, we managed to do it on last minute and I found it > extremely useful, let's repeat this but scheduled this time. Actually if you look above, I added the "Packaging WG" in the Monday-Tuesday rooms example. You could easily have 1 or 2 days there to discuss collaboration between packaging projects, before breaking out for 2 or 3 days with your own project team. -- Thierry Carrez (ttx) __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [ptg] How to slice the week to minimize conflicts
On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 5:27 AM, Thierry Carrez wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> For the PTG events we have a number of rooms available for 5 days, of
> which we need to make the best usage. We also want to keep it simple and
> productive, so we want to minimize room changes (allocating the same
> room to the same group for one or more days).
>
> For the first PTG in Atlanta, we split the week into two groups.
> Monday-Tuesday for "horizontal" project team meetups (Infra, QA...) and
> workgroups (API WG, Goals helprooms...), and Wednesday-Friday for
> "vertical" project team meetups (Nova, Swift...). This kinda worked, but
> the feedback we received called for more optimizations and reduced
> conflicts.
>
> In particular, some projects which have a lot of contributors overlap
> (Storlets/Swift, or Manila/Cinder) were all considered "vertical" and
> happened at the same time. Also horizontal team members ended up having
> issues to attend workgroups, and had nowhere to go for the rest of the
> week. Finally, on Monday-Tuesday the rooms that had the most success
> were inter-project ones we didn't really anticipate (like the API WG),
> while rooms with horizontal project team meetups were a bit
> under-attended. While we have a lot of constraints, I think we can
> optimize a bit better.
>
> After giving it some thought, my current thinking is that we should
> still split the week in two, but should move away from an arbitrary
> horizontal/vertical split. My strawman proposal would be to split the
> week between inter-project work (+ teams that rely mostly on liaisons in
> other teams) on Monday-Tuesday, and team-specific work on Wednesday-Friday:
>
> Example of Monday-Tuesday rooms:
> Interop WG, Docs, QA, API WG, Packaging WG, Oslo, Goals helproom,
> Infra/RelMgt/support teams helpdesk, TC/SWG room, VM&BM Working group...
>
> Example of Wednesday-Thursday or Wednesday-Friday rooms:
> Nova, Cinder, Neutron, Swift, TripleO, Kolla, Infra...
I like the idea of continuing to have Deployment tools part of
vertical projects room.
Though once it's confirmed, I would like to setup a 2 hours slot where
we meet together and make some cross-deployment-project collaboration.
In Atlanta, we managed to do it on last minute and I found it
extremely useful, let's repeat this but scheduled this time.
> (NB: in this example infra team members end up being available in a
> general support team helpdesk room in the first part of the week, and
> having a regular team meetup on the second part of the week)
>
> In summary, Monday-Tuesday would be mostly around themes, while
> Wednesday-Friday would be mostly around teams. In addition to that,
> teams that /prefer/ to run on Monday-Tuesday to avoid conflicting with
> another project meetup (like Manila wanting to avoid conflicting with
> Cinder, or Storlets wanting to avoid conflicting with Swift) could
> *choose* to go for Monday-Tuesday instead of Wednesday-Friday.
>
> It's a bit of a long shot (we'd still want to equilibrate both sides in
> terms of room usage, so it's likely that the teams that are late to
> decide to participate would be pushed on one side or the other), but I
> think it's a good incremental change that could solve some of the issues
> reported in the Atlanta week slicing, as well as generally make
> inter-project coordination simpler.
>
> If we adopt that format, we need to be pretty flexible in terms of what
> is a "workgroup": to me, any inter-project work that would like to have
> a one-day or two-day room should be able to get some.
> Nova-{Cinder,Neutron,Ironic} discussions would for example happen in the
> VM & BM working group room, but we can imagine others just like it.
>
> Let me know what you think. Also feel free to propose alternate creative
> ways to slice the space and time we'll have. We need to open
> registration very soon (June 1st is the current target), and we'd like
> to have a rough idea of the program before we do that (so that people
> can report which days they will attend more accurately).
>
> --
> Thierry Carrez (ttx)
>
> __
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--
Emilien Macchi
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Re: [openstack-dev] [ptg] How to slice the week to minimize conflicts
On 18 May 2017, at 2:27, Thierry Carrez wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> For the PTG events we have a number of rooms available for 5 days, of
> which we need to make the best usage. We also want to keep it simple and
> productive, so we want to minimize room changes (allocating the same
> room to the same group for one or more days).
>
> For the first PTG in Atlanta, we split the week into two groups.
> Monday-Tuesday for "horizontal" project team meetups (Infra, QA...) and
> workgroups (API WG, Goals helprooms...), and Wednesday-Friday for
> "vertical" project team meetups (Nova, Swift...). This kinda worked, but
> the feedback we received called for more optimizations and reduced
> conflicts.
>
> In particular, some projects which have a lot of contributors overlap
> (Storlets/Swift, or Manila/Cinder) were all considered "vertical" and
> happened at the same time. Also horizontal team members ended up having
> issues to attend workgroups, and had nowhere to go for the rest of the
> week. Finally, on Monday-Tuesday the rooms that had the most success
> were inter-project ones we didn't really anticipate (like the API WG),
> while rooms with horizontal project team meetups were a bit
> under-attended. While we have a lot of constraints, I think we can
> optimize a bit better.
>
> After giving it some thought, my current thinking is that we should
> still split the week in two, but should move away from an arbitrary
> horizontal/vertical split. My strawman proposal would be to split the
> week between inter-project work (+ teams that rely mostly on liaisons in
> other teams) on Monday-Tuesday, and team-specific work on Wednesday-Friday:
>
> Example of Monday-Tuesday rooms:
> Interop WG, Docs, QA, API WG, Packaging WG, Oslo, Goals helproom,
> Infra/RelMgt/support teams helpdesk, TC/SWG room, VM&BM Working group...
>
> Example of Wednesday-Thursday or Wednesday-Friday rooms:
> Nova, Cinder, Neutron, Swift, TripleO, Kolla, Infra...
>
> (NB: in this example infra team members end up being available in a
> general support team helpdesk room in the first part of the week, and
> having a regular team meetup on the second part of the week)
>
> In summary, Monday-Tuesday would be mostly around themes, while
> Wednesday-Friday would be mostly around teams. In addition to that,
> teams that /prefer/ to run on Monday-Tuesday to avoid conflicting with
> another project meetup (like Manila wanting to avoid conflicting with
> Cinder, or Storlets wanting to avoid conflicting with Swift) could
> *choose* to go for Monday-Tuesday instead of Wednesday-Friday.
>
> It's a bit of a long shot (we'd still want to equilibrate both sides in
> terms of room usage, so it's likely that the teams that are late to
> decide to participate would be pushed on one side or the other), but I
> think it's a good incremental change that could solve some of the issues
> reported in the Atlanta week slicing, as well as generally make
> inter-project coordination simpler.
>
> If we adopt that format, we need to be pretty flexible in terms of what
> is a "workgroup": to me, any inter-project work that would like to have
> a one-day or two-day room should be able to get some.
> Nova-{Cinder,Neutron,Ironic} discussions would for example happen in the
> VM & BM working group room, but we can imagine others just like it.
>
> Let me know what you think. Also feel free to propose alternate creative
> ways to slice the space and time we'll have. We need to open
> registration very soon (June 1st is the current target), and we'd like
> to have a rough idea of the program before we do that (so that people
> can report which days they will attend more accurately).
>
> --
> Thierry Carrez (ttx)
>
> __
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> Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe
> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Sounds like a good idea to me.
--John
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Re: [openstack-dev] [ptg] How to slice the week to minimize conflicts
Dmitry Tantsur wrote: >> [...] >> After giving it some thought, my current thinking is that we should >> still split the week in two, but should move away from an arbitrary >> horizontal/vertical split. My strawman proposal would be to split the >> week between inter-project work (+ teams that rely mostly on liaisons in >> other teams) on Monday-Tuesday, and team-specific work on >> Wednesday-Friday: >> >> Example of Monday-Tuesday rooms: >> Interop WG, Docs, QA, API WG, Packaging WG, Oslo, Goals helproom, >> Infra/RelMgt/support teams helpdesk, TC/SWG room, VM&BM Working group... >> >> Example of Wednesday-Thursday or Wednesday-Friday rooms: >> Nova, Cinder, Neutron, Swift, TripleO, Kolla, Infra... > > Two objections here: > > 1. In Atlanta moving cross-project things to the first 2 day resulted in > a big share of people arriving on Tuesday and just skipping it. This is > partly because of budget, partly because they did not associate > themselves with any cross-project group. I wonder if we should motivate > people to participate in at least some of these by moving one of the > days to the middle of the week. That was a feature rather than a bug. Give people option to pick a smaller timespan, rather than force them to attend all 5 days. I mean, we totally could have the Nova team meetup on Monday, Thursday and Friday, but I suspect that would result in some people only attending the last two days. > 2. Doing TripleO in parallel to other projects was quite unfortunate > IMO. TripleO is an integration project. I would love TripleO people to > come to Ironic sessions, and I'd like to attend TripleO sessions myself. > It is essentially impossible with this suggestions. That's funny, because they were originally programmed on Mon-Tue (for the reasons you mention) but they (the TripleO team) explicitly requested to be moved to Wed-Fri, to be able to attend the inter-project stuff instead. So I guess the mileage really varies :) -- Thierry Carrez (ttx) __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [ptg] How to slice the week to minimize conflicts
Hi Thierry, thanks for raising it. I think it's very important to discuss
indeed.
On 05/18/2017 11:27 AM, Thierry Carrez wrote:
Hi everyone,
For the PTG events we have a number of rooms available for 5 days, of
which we need to make the best usage. We also want to keep it simple and
productive, so we want to minimize room changes (allocating the same
room to the same group for one or more days).
For the first PTG in Atlanta, we split the week into two groups.
Monday-Tuesday for "horizontal" project team meetups (Infra, QA...) and
workgroups (API WG, Goals helprooms...), and Wednesday-Friday for
"vertical" project team meetups (Nova, Swift...). This kinda worked, but
the feedback we received called for more optimizations and reduced
conflicts.
In particular, some projects which have a lot of contributors overlap
(Storlets/Swift, or Manila/Cinder) were all considered "vertical" and
happened at the same time. Also horizontal team members ended up having
issues to attend workgroups, and had nowhere to go for the rest of the
week. Finally, on Monday-Tuesday the rooms that had the most success
were inter-project ones we didn't really anticipate (like the API WG),
while rooms with horizontal project team meetups were a bit
under-attended. While we have a lot of constraints, I think we can
optimize a bit better.
After giving it some thought, my current thinking is that we should
still split the week in two, but should move away from an arbitrary
horizontal/vertical split. My strawman proposal would be to split the
week between inter-project work (+ teams that rely mostly on liaisons in
other teams) on Monday-Tuesday, and team-specific work on Wednesday-Friday:
Example of Monday-Tuesday rooms:
Interop WG, Docs, QA, API WG, Packaging WG, Oslo, Goals helproom,
Infra/RelMgt/support teams helpdesk, TC/SWG room, VM&BM Working group...
Example of Wednesday-Thursday or Wednesday-Friday rooms:
Nova, Cinder, Neutron, Swift, TripleO, Kolla, Infra...
Two objections here:
1. In Atlanta moving cross-project things to the first 2 day resulted in a big
share of people arriving on Tuesday and just skipping it. This is partly because
of budget, partly because they did not associate themselves with any
cross-project group. I wonder if we should motivate people to participate in at
least some of these by moving one of the days to the middle of the week.
2. Doing TripleO in parallel to other projects was quite unfortunate IMO.
TripleO is an integration project. I would love TripleO people to come to Ironic
sessions, and I'd like to attend TripleO sessions myself. It is essentially
impossible with this suggestions.
(NB: in this example infra team members end up being available in a
general support team helpdesk room in the first part of the week, and
having a regular team meetup on the second part of the week)
In summary, Monday-Tuesday would be mostly around themes, while
Wednesday-Friday would be mostly around teams. In addition to that,
teams that /prefer/ to run on Monday-Tuesday to avoid conflicting with
another project meetup (like Manila wanting to avoid conflicting with
Cinder, or Storlets wanting to avoid conflicting with Swift) could
*choose* to go for Monday-Tuesday instead of Wednesday-Friday.
It's a bit of a long shot (we'd still want to equilibrate both sides in
terms of room usage, so it's likely that the teams that are late to
decide to participate would be pushed on one side or the other), but I
think it's a good incremental change that could solve some of the issues
reported in the Atlanta week slicing, as well as generally make
inter-project coordination simpler.
If we adopt that format, we need to be pretty flexible in terms of what
is a "workgroup": to me, any inter-project work that would like to have
a one-day or two-day room should be able to get some.
Nova-{Cinder,Neutron,Ironic} discussions would for example happen in the
VM & BM working group room, but we can imagine others just like it.
Big +1 to being flexible in defining work groups. Actually, we had to organize
Ironic-Neutron room anyway on Monday. The only problem, as I note above, is that
many people may opt out of being there on Mon-Tue.
Let me know what you think. Also feel free to propose alternate creative
ways to slice the space and time we'll have. We need to open
registration very soon (June 1st is the current target), and we'd like
to have a rough idea of the program before we do that (so that people
can report which days they will attend more accurately).
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