Re: [openstack-dev] Suggestions for students final year project

2014-10-07 Thread Adam Young

On 10/06/2014 05:28 PM, Anita Kuno wrote:

On 10/06/2014 04:11 PM, Adam Young wrote:

On 10/06/2014 03:25 PM, Patricia Ellis wrote:

Hi Adam,

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

I'm more of a web development type than security. I have some maths
background so perhaps something with data analysis.

To date I have done mostly Java, some JavaScript, Html, and MySQL. I
am interested in learning Python. I co-developed a web app to check
and commit time-sheets to a database during my work experience this
summer; I did the database and the checking of the sheets. I, have
also, created an Android app to monitor the fuel consumption in
multiple vehicles, using the Android SQLite Database for storage.


I am looking to get someone to work on a Javascript based web client to
replace Horizon.

Can I just say that I think using new people looking to have work
experience with OpenStack to further pet projects, without telling them
it is a pet project and not considered a project which others may
consider OpenStack to be not the best approach for encouraging new people.

Good points:


Not knocking your project, Adam, since I know nothing about it, and this
isn't the first time I have seen this happen. But I do believe that
folks asking to help out with something are looking to gain transferable
skills so that they have something to offer a potential employeer who is
looking for work experience with OpenStack. That would be what I would
be looking for anyway.
No offense taken.  I think you are looking out for the interest of the 
poster and people wityh similar interests.


I can verify how hard to cut off a chunk for a new developer:  I had an 
intern I was working with this summer.  Most of the time was spent on 
learning the development process.  It would not be appropriate for 
someone in Patricia's position to try and come in and get a bug fix 
through.  That limits the number of projects available.



Typically, and internship or a senior project like this is the correct 
place for a proof of concept or side project.  The project can be done 
with a focus more on functionality and less on stability.



We should come up with a published list of intern and senior projects 
proposals



New people have no idea what are considered transferable skills within
OpenStack unless we tell them.

Thanks,
Anita.


  There has been some work along these lines already.

Beyond that, most of the projects I have are Python based Keystone
features.  You can see the kinds of things I am considering here:

https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/keystone-specs+owner:%22ayoung+%253Cayoung%2540redhat.com%253E%22,n,z




On 6 October 2014 18:37, Adam Young ayo...@redhat.com
mailto:ayo...@redhat.com wrote:

 On 10/06/2014 01:14 PM, Patricia Ellis wrote:

 My name is Patricia Ellis, I am a fourth year software
 development student at Cork Institute of Technology. I am looking
 for ideas for my final year project. I have six weeks to get my
 proposal together and then 13 weeks to implement it. I am hoping
 you might have a suitable project on your wish list, one which is
 of the ”low hanging fruit” variety as my time frame is tight.



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 Patricia,

 I am Keystone core developer.  I have several ideas.   It really
 depends on your skills and interests.

 Are you a security person?

 If not,  are you a web development type person?

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Re: [openstack-dev] Suggestions for students final year project

2014-10-07 Thread Anita Kuno
On 10/07/2014 01:38 PM, Adam Young wrote:
 On 10/06/2014 05:28 PM, Anita Kuno wrote:
 On 10/06/2014 04:11 PM, Adam Young wrote:
 On 10/06/2014 03:25 PM, Patricia Ellis wrote:
 Hi Adam,

 Thanks for taking the time to reply.

 I'm more of a web development type than security. I have some maths
 background so perhaps something with data analysis.

 To date I have done mostly Java, some JavaScript, Html, and MySQL. I
 am interested in learning Python. I co-developed a web app to check
 and commit time-sheets to a database during my work experience this
 summer; I did the database and the checking of the sheets. I, have
 also, created an Android app to monitor the fuel consumption in
 multiple vehicles, using the Android SQLite Database for storage.

 I am looking to get someone to work on a Javascript based web client to
 replace Horizon.
 Can I just say that I think using new people looking to have work
 experience with OpenStack to further pet projects, without telling them
 it is a pet project and not considered a project which others may
 consider OpenStack to be not the best approach for encouraging new
 people.
 Good points:
 
 Not knocking your project, Adam, since I know nothing about it, and this
 isn't the first time I have seen this happen. But I do believe that
 folks asking to help out with something are looking to gain transferable
 skills so that they have something to offer a potential employeer who is
 looking for work experience with OpenStack. That would be what I would
 be looking for anyway.
 No offense taken.  I think you are looking out for the interest of the
 poster and people wityh similar interests.
Thanks for understanding, Adam.
 
 I can verify how hard to cut off a chunk for a new developer:  I had an
 intern I was working with this summer.  Most of the time was spent on
 learning the development process.
Exactly! I think this is a very salient point which is missed both by
people in Patricia's situation as well as the ones who send them here.

  It would not be appropriate for
 someone in Patricia's position to try and come in and get a bug fix
 through.
Now on this point, I'm going to disagree, simply because I don't have
enough information on what Patricia's position actually is. I can guess
but until I hear from Patricia herself, I'm just guessing and I would
much rather know. It was my desire to know more about Patricia's
position that motivated my suggestion she join irc and perhaps ask a few
questions, allowing others to ask questions of her.

When interacting with other folks who enter under similar circumstances,
my first question invariably is What is your goal?. I truly hope
Patricia has something better than to get a good mark because folks
with that goal rarely interest me, but who knows. I haven't had the
chance to ask.

  That limits the number of projects available.
Now here is where I would like to interact with program administrators
at institutions such as Patricia's to ask them why a project? We have
over 300 including stackforge, why task a student with starting their
own, why not encourage them to learn our development process which then
can enable them to work on any of the 300 in various stages of development.
 
 
 Typically, and internship or a senior project like this is the correct
 place for a proof of concept or side project.
Well I guess I would like to change things a bit and interact more
closely with institutions so they are encouraging students to mix it up
with the rest of us (reviewing for marks, that appeals to me) rather
than working on their own on the side. They get what the prof wanted but
they don't get as much as they could get for their time in terms of what
would be useful after they get that rolled up piece of paper secured
with a ribbon. Also there are hiring managers afoot in them thar hills
masquerading as devs, who knows what might happen if you actually work
with them for 3 - 6 weeks what fate might bestow on you.

  The project can be done
 with a focus more on functionality and less on stability.
 
 
 We should come up with a published list of intern and senior projects
 proposals
I agree that is would be helpful, not only to students, but also to
OpenStack to have a published list of endpoints (whatever they may be)
that allows newcomers to be productive while getting what they need to
show off to evaluators while also growing skills that will be useful to
them long term. Having them learn how to do work that benefits Openstack
(how about reviews?) wouldn't hurt us either.

Thanks Adam,
Anita.

 
 New people have no idea what are considered transferable skills within
 OpenStack unless we tell them.

 Thanks,
 Anita.

   There has been some work along these lines already.

 Beyond that, most of the projects I have are Python based Keystone
 features.  You can see the kinds of things I am considering here:

 

Re: [openstack-dev] Suggestions for students final year project

2014-10-07 Thread Jay Faulkner
On Oct 7, 2014, at 10:38 AM, Adam Young ayo...@redhat.com wrote:

 We should come up with a published list of intern and senior projects 
 proposals

I know there is a low-hanging-fruit tag in the bug tracker, and this summer 
when we had two interns on our team working on Openstack we had them both 
“onboard” to the development process by having them find and resolve 
low-hanging-fruit tagged bugs in IPA and Ironic.

I’d strongly suggest this list start with us being more vigilant about tagging 
bugs as low-hanging-fruit and then having those act as a gateway into the 
community. At Open Source Bridge this year, in a session about getting 
newcomers interested in open source, easy/l-h-f bugs were indicated as a 
strongly preferred way to get someone involved. Even to the level of suggesting 
a more senior developer could make the bug report better, with more breadcrumbs 
for a new person, to make it even easier to get started.

Just a thought :).

Thanks,
Jay Faulkner



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Re: [openstack-dev] Suggestions for students final year project

2014-10-07 Thread Duncan Thomas
On 7 October 2014 19:01, Anita Kuno ante...@anteaya.info wrote:
 On 10/07/2014 01:38 PM, Adam Young wrote:
 On 10/06/2014 05:28 PM, Anita Kuno wrote:
 On 10/06/2014 04:11 PM, Adam Young wrote:
 I am looking to get someone to work on a Javascript based web client to
 replace Horizon.

 Can I just say that I think using new people looking to have work
 experience with OpenStack to further pet projects, without telling them
 it is a pet project and not considered a project which others may
 consider OpenStack to be not the best approach for encouraging new
 people.

I think writing a client / gui for openstack is one of the best single
projects you can do to get a good overview of the whole stack.

 Not knocking your project, Adam, since I know nothing about it, and this
 isn't the first time I have seen this happen. But I do believe that
 folks asking to help out with something are looking to gain transferable
 skills so that they have something to offer a potential employeer who is
 looking for work experience with OpenStack. That would be what I would
 be looking for anyway.

 No offense taken.  I think you are looking out for the interest of the
 poster and people wityh similar interests.

snip

  It would not be appropriate for
 someone in Patricia's position to try and come in and get a bug fix
 through.

 Now on this point, I'm going to disagree, simply because I don't have
 enough information on what Patricia's position actually is. I can guess
 but until I hear from Patricia herself, I'm just guessing and I would
 much rather know. It was my desire to know more about Patricia's
 position that motivated my suggestion she join irc and perhaps ask a few
 questions, allowing others to ask questions of her.

 When interacting with other folks who enter under similar circumstances,
 my first question invariably is What is your goal?. I truly hope
 Patricia has something better than to get a good mark because folks
 with that goal rarely interest me, but who knows. I haven't had the
 chance to ask.

If you're doing a final year project and your highest goal isn't 'to
get a good mark', then you're doing yourself a serious disservice. You
can have all sorts of secondary goals, but by the point in your
academic career where you're doing your final year project, your main
goal is to prove you're learnt and can apply all of the skills that
your course has covered. This actually involves a very different
process to getting something done in the 'real world'.

  That limits the number of projects available.
 Now here is where I would like to interact with program administrators
 at institutions such as Patricia's to ask them why a project? We have
 over 300 including stackforge, why task a student with starting their
 own, why not encourage them to learn our development process which then
 can enable them to work on any of the 300 in various stages of development.

Extremely difficult to get a decent academic project and therefore a
good mark out of an existing project that has had any substantial
amount of work done on it. Not impossible, but flicking through a pile
of old final year projects that got good marks shows that stand-alone
start-to-finish projects tend to get better marks. (I've looked into
this quite a bit)





-- 
Duncan Thomas

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Re: [openstack-dev] Suggestions for students final year project

2014-10-07 Thread Adam Lawson
Is the OP looking to help patch bugs with an individual program or to use
Openstack to deploy an interesting use case? The latter is how I
interpreted the question.


*Adam Lawson*

AQORN, Inc.
427 North Tatnall Street
Ste. 58461
Wilmington, Delaware 19801-2230
Toll-free: (844) 4-AQORN-NOW ext. 101
International: +1 302-387-4660
Direct: +1 916-246-2072


On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 11:24 AM, Duncan Thomas duncan.tho...@gmail.com
wrote:

 On 7 October 2014 19:01, Anita Kuno ante...@anteaya.info wrote:
  On 10/07/2014 01:38 PM, Adam Young wrote:
  On 10/06/2014 05:28 PM, Anita Kuno wrote:
  On 10/06/2014 04:11 PM, Adam Young wrote:
  I am looking to get someone to work on a Javascript based web client
 to
  replace Horizon.

  Can I just say that I think using new people looking to have work
  experience with OpenStack to further pet projects, without telling them
  it is a pet project and not considered a project which others may
  consider OpenStack to be not the best approach for encouraging new
  people.

 I think writing a client / gui for openstack is one of the best single
 projects you can do to get a good overview of the whole stack.

  Not knocking your project, Adam, since I know nothing about it, and
 this
  isn't the first time I have seen this happen. But I do believe that
  folks asking to help out with something are looking to gain
 transferable
  skills so that they have something to offer a potential employeer who
 is
  looking for work experience with OpenStack. That would be what I would
  be looking for anyway.

  No offense taken.  I think you are looking out for the interest of the
  poster and people wityh similar interests.

 snip

   It would not be appropriate for
  someone in Patricia's position to try and come in and get a bug fix
  through.

  Now on this point, I'm going to disagree, simply because I don't have
  enough information on what Patricia's position actually is. I can guess
  but until I hear from Patricia herself, I'm just guessing and I would
  much rather know. It was my desire to know more about Patricia's
  position that motivated my suggestion she join irc and perhaps ask a few
  questions, allowing others to ask questions of her.
 
  When interacting with other folks who enter under similar circumstances,
  my first question invariably is What is your goal?. I truly hope
  Patricia has something better than to get a good mark because folks
  with that goal rarely interest me, but who knows. I haven't had the
  chance to ask.

 If you're doing a final year project and your highest goal isn't 'to
 get a good mark', then you're doing yourself a serious disservice. You
 can have all sorts of secondary goals, but by the point in your
 academic career where you're doing your final year project, your main
 goal is to prove you're learnt and can apply all of the skills that
 your course has covered. This actually involves a very different
 process to getting something done in the 'real world'.

   That limits the number of projects available.
  Now here is where I would like to interact with program administrators
  at institutions such as Patricia's to ask them why a project? We have
  over 300 including stackforge, why task a student with starting their
  own, why not encourage them to learn our development process which then
  can enable them to work on any of the 300 in various stages of
 development.

 Extremely difficult to get a decent academic project and therefore a
 good mark out of an existing project that has had any substantial
 amount of work done on it. Not impossible, but flicking through a pile
 of old final year projects that got good marks shows that stand-alone
 start-to-finish projects tend to get better marks. (I've looked into
 this quite a bit)





 --
 Duncan Thomas

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Re: [openstack-dev] Suggestions for students final year project

2014-10-07 Thread Sergey Lukjanov
Regarding to the Sahara, we could discuss it in the ML separately or you
could join the #openstack-sahara channel at freenode.

There is a big area of doing things inside and on top of Sahara.

thanks.

On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 11:41 AM, Adam Lawson alaw...@aqorn.com wrote:

 Is the OP looking to help patch bugs with an individual program or to use
 Openstack to deploy an interesting use case? The latter is how I
 interpreted the question.


 *Adam Lawson*

 AQORN, Inc.
 427 North Tatnall Street
 Ste. 58461
 Wilmington, Delaware 19801-2230
 Toll-free: (844) 4-AQORN-NOW ext. 101
 International: +1 302-387-4660
 Direct: +1 916-246-2072


 On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 11:24 AM, Duncan Thomas duncan.tho...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 On 7 October 2014 19:01, Anita Kuno ante...@anteaya.info wrote:
  On 10/07/2014 01:38 PM, Adam Young wrote:
  On 10/06/2014 05:28 PM, Anita Kuno wrote:
  On 10/06/2014 04:11 PM, Adam Young wrote:
  I am looking to get someone to work on a Javascript based web client
 to
  replace Horizon.

  Can I just say that I think using new people looking to have work
  experience with OpenStack to further pet projects, without telling
 them
  it is a pet project and not considered a project which others may
  consider OpenStack to be not the best approach for encouraging new
  people.

 I think writing a client / gui for openstack is one of the best single
 projects you can do to get a good overview of the whole stack.

  Not knocking your project, Adam, since I know nothing about it, and
 this
  isn't the first time I have seen this happen. But I do believe that
  folks asking to help out with something are looking to gain
 transferable
  skills so that they have something to offer a potential employeer who
 is
  looking for work experience with OpenStack. That would be what I would
  be looking for anyway.

  No offense taken.  I think you are looking out for the interest of the
  poster and people wityh similar interests.

 snip

   It would not be appropriate for
  someone in Patricia's position to try and come in and get a bug fix
  through.

  Now on this point, I'm going to disagree, simply because I don't have
  enough information on what Patricia's position actually is. I can guess
  but until I hear from Patricia herself, I'm just guessing and I would
  much rather know. It was my desire to know more about Patricia's
  position that motivated my suggestion she join irc and perhaps ask a few
  questions, allowing others to ask questions of her.
 
  When interacting with other folks who enter under similar circumstances,
  my first question invariably is What is your goal?. I truly hope
  Patricia has something better than to get a good mark because folks
  with that goal rarely interest me, but who knows. I haven't had the
  chance to ask.

 If you're doing a final year project and your highest goal isn't 'to
 get a good mark', then you're doing yourself a serious disservice. You
 can have all sorts of secondary goals, but by the point in your
 academic career where you're doing your final year project, your main
 goal is to prove you're learnt and can apply all of the skills that
 your course has covered. This actually involves a very different
 process to getting something done in the 'real world'.

   That limits the number of projects available.
  Now here is where I would like to interact with program administrators
  at institutions such as Patricia's to ask them why a project? We have
  over 300 including stackforge, why task a student with starting their
  own, why not encourage them to learn our development process which then
  can enable them to work on any of the 300 in various stages of
 development.

 Extremely difficult to get a decent academic project and therefore a
 good mark out of an existing project that has had any substantial
 amount of work done on it. Not impossible, but flicking through a pile
 of old final year projects that got good marks shows that stand-alone
 start-to-finish projects tend to get better marks. (I've looked into
 this quite a bit)





 --
 Duncan Thomas

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-- 
Sincerely yours,
Sergey Lukjanov
Sahara Technical Lead
(OpenStack Data Processing)
Principal Software Engineer
Mirantis Inc.
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Re: [openstack-dev] Suggestions for students final year project

2014-10-07 Thread Patricia Ellis
Thank you all for your attention,

In answer to Anita, in a way my goal is to get a good mark as I have been
getting good marks so far. I had a project proposal of my own, a web app
for a friend of mine but my supervisor didn't think it good enough to get
me a good mark and she suggested I approach you. Final year projects don't
seem to be about showing off what we have learned over the last 3/4 years
rather to show off what we haven't learned at college. I started off my
degree from a very low foundation of knowledge about programming and found
I really liked the coding side of things so I switched to a software
development degree in second year. It is very difficult to get the balance
right when you realize how little you know about the subject, the more I
learn the bigger the field seems to be getting.
I will spend some time investigating the links you sent me.

On 7 October 2014 19:41, Adam Lawson alaw...@aqorn.com wrote:

 Is the OP looking to help patch bugs with an individual program or to use
 Openstack to deploy an interesting use case? The latter is how I
 interpreted the question.


 *Adam Lawson*

 AQORN, Inc.
 427 North Tatnall Street
 Ste. 58461
 Wilmington, Delaware 19801-2230
 Toll-free: (844) 4-AQORN-NOW ext. 101
 International: +1 302-387-4660
 Direct: +1 916-246-2072


 On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 11:24 AM, Duncan Thomas duncan.tho...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 On 7 October 2014 19:01, Anita Kuno ante...@anteaya.info wrote:
  On 10/07/2014 01:38 PM, Adam Young wrote:
  On 10/06/2014 05:28 PM, Anita Kuno wrote:
  On 10/06/2014 04:11 PM, Adam Young wrote:
  I am looking to get someone to work on a Javascript based web client
 to
  replace Horizon.

  Can I just say that I think using new people looking to have work
  experience with OpenStack to further pet projects, without telling
 them
  it is a pet project and not considered a project which others may
  consider OpenStack to be not the best approach for encouraging new
  people.

 I think writing a client / gui for openstack is one of the best single
 projects you can do to get a good overview of the whole stack.

  Not knocking your project, Adam, since I know nothing about it, and
 this
  isn't the first time I have seen this happen. But I do believe that
  folks asking to help out with something are looking to gain
 transferable
  skills so that they have something to offer a potential employeer who
 is
  looking for work experience with OpenStack. That would be what I would
  be looking for anyway.

  No offense taken.  I think you are looking out for the interest of the
  poster and people wityh similar interests.

 snip

   It would not be appropriate for
  someone in Patricia's position to try and come in and get a bug fix
  through.

  Now on this point, I'm going to disagree, simply because I don't have
  enough information on what Patricia's position actually is. I can guess
  but until I hear from Patricia herself, I'm just guessing and I would
  much rather know. It was my desire to know more about Patricia's
  position that motivated my suggestion she join irc and perhaps ask a few
  questions, allowing others to ask questions of her.
 
  When interacting with other folks who enter under similar circumstances,
  my first question invariably is What is your goal?. I truly hope
  Patricia has something better than to get a good mark because folks
  with that goal rarely interest me, but who knows. I haven't had the
  chance to ask.

 If you're doing a final year project and your highest goal isn't 'to
 get a good mark', then you're doing yourself a serious disservice. You
 can have all sorts of secondary goals, but by the point in your
 academic career where you're doing your final year project, your main
 goal is to prove you're learnt and can apply all of the skills that
 your course has covered. This actually involves a very different
 process to getting something done in the 'real world'.

   That limits the number of projects available.
  Now here is where I would like to interact with program administrators
  at institutions such as Patricia's to ask them why a project? We have
  over 300 including stackforge, why task a student with starting their
  own, why not encourage them to learn our development process which then
  can enable them to work on any of the 300 in various stages of
 development.

 Extremely difficult to get a decent academic project and therefore a
 good mark out of an existing project that has had any substantial
 amount of work done on it. Not impossible, but flicking through a pile
 of old final year projects that got good marks shows that stand-alone
 start-to-finish projects tend to get better marks. (I've looked into
 this quite a bit)





 --
 Duncan Thomas

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Re: [openstack-dev] Suggestions for students final year project

2014-10-07 Thread Anita Kuno
On 10/07/2014 05:21 PM, Patricia Ellis wrote:
 Thank you all for your attention,
 
 In answer to Anita, in a way my goal is to get a good mark as I have been
 getting good marks so far.
Great. Thanks for getting back to us.

Out of the replies thus far Duncan seems to have the most experience
(that has been mentioned) in getting a good mark. He tends to hang out
in the #openstack-cinder channel and, lucky you, is in your timezone. I
would suggest having a follow up conversation with him to maximize your
effectiveness at getting a good mark.

I'm still interested in having that conversation with you, Adam, since I
think you have some thoughts I would like to support.

Thanks Patricia,
Anita.

 I had a project proposal of my own, a web app
 for a friend of mine but my supervisor didn't think it good enough to get
 me a good mark and she suggested I approach you. Final year projects don't
 seem to be about showing off what we have learned over the last 3/4 years
 rather to show off what we haven't learned at college. I started off my
 degree from a very low foundation of knowledge about programming and found
 I really liked the coding side of things so I switched to a software
 development degree in second year. It is very difficult to get the balance
 right when you realize how little you know about the subject, the more I
 learn the bigger the field seems to be getting.
 I will spend some time investigating the links you sent me.
 
 On 7 October 2014 19:41, Adam Lawson alaw...@aqorn.com wrote:
 
 Is the OP looking to help patch bugs with an individual program or to use
 Openstack to deploy an interesting use case? The latter is how I
 interpreted the question.


 *Adam Lawson*

 AQORN, Inc.
 427 North Tatnall Street
 Ste. 58461
 Wilmington, Delaware 19801-2230
 Toll-free: (844) 4-AQORN-NOW ext. 101
 International: +1 302-387-4660
 Direct: +1 916-246-2072


 On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 11:24 AM, Duncan Thomas duncan.tho...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 On 7 October 2014 19:01, Anita Kuno ante...@anteaya.info wrote:
 On 10/07/2014 01:38 PM, Adam Young wrote:
 On 10/06/2014 05:28 PM, Anita Kuno wrote:
 On 10/06/2014 04:11 PM, Adam Young wrote:
 I am looking to get someone to work on a Javascript based web client
 to
 replace Horizon.

 Can I just say that I think using new people looking to have work
 experience with OpenStack to further pet projects, without telling
 them
 it is a pet project and not considered a project which others may
 consider OpenStack to be not the best approach for encouraging new
 people.

 I think writing a client / gui for openstack is one of the best single
 projects you can do to get a good overview of the whole stack.

 Not knocking your project, Adam, since I know nothing about it, and
 this
 isn't the first time I have seen this happen. But I do believe that
 folks asking to help out with something are looking to gain
 transferable
 skills so that they have something to offer a potential employeer who
 is
 looking for work experience with OpenStack. That would be what I would
 be looking for anyway.

 No offense taken.  I think you are looking out for the interest of the
 poster and people wityh similar interests.

 snip

  It would not be appropriate for
 someone in Patricia's position to try and come in and get a bug fix
 through.

 Now on this point, I'm going to disagree, simply because I don't have
 enough information on what Patricia's position actually is. I can guess
 but until I hear from Patricia herself, I'm just guessing and I would
 much rather know. It was my desire to know more about Patricia's
 position that motivated my suggestion she join irc and perhaps ask a few
 questions, allowing others to ask questions of her.

 When interacting with other folks who enter under similar circumstances,
 my first question invariably is What is your goal?. I truly hope
 Patricia has something better than to get a good mark because folks
 with that goal rarely interest me, but who knows. I haven't had the
 chance to ask.

 If you're doing a final year project and your highest goal isn't 'to
 get a good mark', then you're doing yourself a serious disservice. You
 can have all sorts of secondary goals, but by the point in your
 academic career where you're doing your final year project, your main
 goal is to prove you're learnt and can apply all of the skills that
 your course has covered. This actually involves a very different
 process to getting something done in the 'real world'.

  That limits the number of projects available.
 Now here is where I would like to interact with program administrators
 at institutions such as Patricia's to ask them why a project? We have
 over 300 including stackforge, why task a student with starting their
 own, why not encourage them to learn our development process which then
 can enable them to work on any of the 300 in various stages of
 development.

 Extremely difficult to get a decent academic project and therefore a
 good mark out of an existing 

Re: [openstack-dev] Suggestions for students final year project

2014-10-07 Thread Adam Young

On 10/07/2014 02:10 PM, Jay Faulkner wrote:

On Oct 7, 2014, at 10:38 AM, Adam Young ayo...@redhat.com wrote:


We should come up with a published list of intern and senior projects 
proposals

I know there is a low-hanging-fruit tag in the bug tracker, and this summer 
when we had two interns on our team working on Openstack we had them both 
“onboard” to the development process by having them find and resolve 
low-hanging-fruit tagged bugs in IPA and Ironic.
There is a difference between low hanging fruit (onboarding) and stand 
alone presentable senior thesis topics.  Both are important.




I’d strongly suggest this list start with us being more vigilant about tagging 
bugs as low-hanging-fruit and then having those act as a gateway into the 
community. At Open Source Bridge this year, in a session about getting 
newcomers interested in open source, easy/l-h-f bugs were indicated as a 
strongly preferred way to get someone involved. Even to the level of suggesting 
a more senior developer could make the bug report better, with more breadcrumbs 
for a new person, to make it even easier to get started.

Just a thought :).

Thanks,
Jay Faulkner



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Re: [openstack-dev] Suggestions for students final year project

2014-10-07 Thread Adam Young

On 10/07/2014 05:41 PM, Anita Kuno wrote:

On 10/07/2014 05:21 PM, Patricia Ellis wrote:

Thank you all for your attention,

In answer to Anita, in a way my goal is to get a good mark as I have been
getting good marks so far.

Great. Thanks for getting back to us.

Out of the replies thus far Duncan seems to have the most experience
(that has been mentioned) in getting a good mark. He tends to hang out
in the #openstack-cinder channel and, lucky you, is in your timezone. I
would suggest having a follow up conversation with him to maximize your
effectiveness at getting a good mark.

I'm still interested in having that conversation with you, Adam, since I
think you have some thoughts I would like to support.
Typcially, an academic project is here is what I did and you take a 
concept on through.  You need to be able to demo it, or at least have a 
psoter session on it.


Getting in involved in OpenStack as a coder is a great way for a new 
student to get hired, especially one that has shown they can get things 
done, but that is different from a senior project.



That said,  there are things I would like to see done inside of Keystone 
that I would be happy to have someone Proof-of-concept and then I'd be 
willing to shepherd through the review process. However, the issues I 
know of require  a decent degree of technical knowledge, and I would 
only aim them at someone that I thought had the right background WRT 
security and python, hence my initial questions.


My point is that it is less about getting something merged and more 
about having something that the student can present on at the end of 
their time.








Thanks Patricia,
Anita.


I had a project proposal of my own, a web app
for a friend of mine but my supervisor didn't think it good enough to get
me a good mark and she suggested I approach you. Final year projects don't
seem to be about showing off what we have learned over the last 3/4 years
rather to show off what we haven't learned at college. I started off my
degree from a very low foundation of knowledge about programming and found
I really liked the coding side of things so I switched to a software
development degree in second year. It is very difficult to get the balance
right when you realize how little you know about the subject, the more I
learn the bigger the field seems to be getting.
I will spend some time investigating the links you sent me.

On 7 October 2014 19:41, Adam Lawson alaw...@aqorn.com wrote:


Is the OP looking to help patch bugs with an individual program or to use
Openstack to deploy an interesting use case? The latter is how I
interpreted the question.


*Adam Lawson*

AQORN, Inc.
427 North Tatnall Street
Ste. 58461
Wilmington, Delaware 19801-2230
Toll-free: (844) 4-AQORN-NOW ext. 101
International: +1 302-387-4660
Direct: +1 916-246-2072


On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 11:24 AM, Duncan Thomas duncan.tho...@gmail.com
wrote:


On 7 October 2014 19:01, Anita Kuno ante...@anteaya.info wrote:

On 10/07/2014 01:38 PM, Adam Young wrote:

On 10/06/2014 05:28 PM, Anita Kuno wrote:

On 10/06/2014 04:11 PM, Adam Young wrote:

I am looking to get someone to work on a Javascript based web client

to

replace Horizon.

Can I just say that I think using new people looking to have work
experience with OpenStack to further pet projects, without telling

them

it is a pet project and not considered a project which others may
consider OpenStack to be not the best approach for encouraging new
people.

I think writing a client / gui for openstack is one of the best single
projects you can do to get a good overview of the whole stack.


Not knocking your project, Adam, since I know nothing about it, and

this

isn't the first time I have seen this happen. But I do believe that
folks asking to help out with something are looking to gain

transferable

skills so that they have something to offer a potential employeer who

is

looking for work experience with OpenStack. That would be what I would
be looking for anyway.

No offense taken.  I think you are looking out for the interest of the
poster and people wityh similar interests.

snip


  It would not be appropriate for
someone in Patricia's position to try and come in and get a bug fix
through.

Now on this point, I'm going to disagree, simply because I don't have
enough information on what Patricia's position actually is. I can guess
but until I hear from Patricia herself, I'm just guessing and I would
much rather know. It was my desire to know more about Patricia's
position that motivated my suggestion she join irc and perhaps ask a few
questions, allowing others to ask questions of her.

When interacting with other folks who enter under similar circumstances,
my first question invariably is What is your goal?. I truly hope
Patricia has something better than to get a good mark because folks
with that goal rarely interest me, but who knows. I haven't had the
chance to ask.

If you're doing a final year project and your highest goal 

Re: [openstack-dev] Suggestions for students final year project

2014-10-07 Thread Jay Faulkner

On Oct 7, 2014, at 4:56 PM, Adam Young ayo...@redhat.com wrote:

 On Oct 7, 2014, at 10:38 AM, Adam Young ayo...@redhat.com wrote:
 
 We should come up with a published list of intern and senior projects 
 proposals
 I know there is a low-hanging-fruit tag in the bug tracker, and this summer 
 when we had two interns on our team working on Openstack we had them both 
 “onboard” to the development process by having them find and resolve 
 low-hanging-fruit tagged bugs in IPA and Ironic.
 There is a difference between low hanging fruit (onboarding) and stand alone 
 presentable senior thesis topics.  Both are important.
 

I guess my thought was that before someone decided to do a long-term project 
for Openstack, they might want to be onboarded to how we do software 
development, code reviews, practices, community friendliness, etc BEFORE taking 
on a long project working with us :).

-Jay



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Re: [openstack-dev] Suggestions for students final year project

2014-10-06 Thread Anita Kuno
On 10/06/2014 01:14 PM, Patricia Ellis wrote:
 My name is Patricia Ellis, I am a fourth year software development student
 at Cork Institute of Technology. I am looking for ideas for my final year
 project. I have six weeks to get my proposal together and then 13 weeks to
 implement it. I am hoping you might have a suitable project on your wish
 list, one which is of the ”low hanging fruit” variety as my time frame is
 tight.
 
 
 
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Hi Patricia:

This is going to be a tough one for anyone to reply to since noone knows
who you are, your interests or what you've done.

My best suggestion is to hop onto irc's freenode server and join
#openstack-dev as well as any other channel on this list that catches
your eye: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/IRC

The first thing you will have to do is learn our workflow, which is
really specific and is the same across all projects:
http://docs.openstack.org/infra/manual/developers.html

You can also look at attending some meetings:
https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings and find something that you like.

Logs for meetings and channels are here: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/

I hope you can find something that interests you.

Thanks Patricia,
Anita.

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Re: [openstack-dev] Suggestions for students final year project

2014-10-06 Thread Adam Young

On 10/06/2014 01:14 PM, Patricia Ellis wrote:


My name is Patricia Ellis, I am a fourth year software development 
student at Cork Institute of Technology. I am looking for ideas for my 
final year project. I have six weeks to get my proposal together and 
then 13 weeks to implement it. I am hoping you might have a suitable 
project on your wish list, one which is of the ”low hanging fruit” 
variety as my time frame is tight.




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Patricia,

I am Keystone core developer.  I have several ideas.   It really depends 
on your skills and interests.


Are you a security person?

If not,  are you a web development type person?
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Re: [openstack-dev] Suggestions for students final year project

2014-10-06 Thread Patricia Ellis
Hi Adam,

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

I'm more of a web development type than security. I have some maths
background so perhaps something with data analysis.

To date I have done mostly Java, some JavaScript, Html, and MySQL. I am
interested in learning Python. I co-developed a web app to check and commit
time-sheets to a database during my work experience this summer; I did the
database and the checking of the sheets. I, have also, created an Android
app to monitor the fuel consumption in multiple vehicles, using the Android
SQLite Database for storage.



On 6 October 2014 18:37, Adam Young ayo...@redhat.com wrote:

  On 10/06/2014 01:14 PM, Patricia Ellis wrote:

  My name is Patricia Ellis, I am a fourth year software development
 student at Cork Institute of Technology. I am looking for ideas for my
 final year project. I have six weeks to get my proposal together and then
 13 weeks to implement it. I am hoping you might have a suitable project on
 your wish list, one which is of the ”low hanging fruit” variety as my time
 frame is tight.


 ___
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  Patricia,

 I am Keystone core developer.  I have several ideas.   It really depends
 on your skills and interests.

 Are you a security person?

 If not,  are you a web development type person?

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Re: [openstack-dev] Suggestions for students final year project

2014-10-06 Thread Adam Lawson
Patricia,

Perhaps someone from the Sahara team has a need for help to resolve a
problem. If patching or implementing a new feature isn't your idea of a
final project, maybe create a big data job that analyses real-time Twitter
trends on a virtualized Hadoop cluster. Or maybe a comparison running that
same job between multiple virtual clusters with Hortonworks versus Cloudera
versus Vanilla Apache Hadoop and compare which one performs better and why.

Just some suggestions. ; )

Mahalo,
Adam


*Adam Lawson*

AQORN, Inc.
427 North Tatnall Street
Ste. 58461
Wilmington, Delaware 19801-2230
Toll-free: (844) 4-AQORN-NOW ext. 101
International: +1 302-387-4660
Direct: +1 916-246-2072


On Mon, Oct 6, 2014 at 12:25 PM, Patricia Ellis patricia.el...@mycit.ie
wrote:

 Hi Adam,

 Thanks for taking the time to reply.

 I'm more of a web development type than security. I have some maths
 background so perhaps something with data analysis.

 To date I have done mostly Java, some JavaScript, Html, and MySQL. I am
 interested in learning Python. I co-developed a web app to check and commit
 time-sheets to a database during my work experience this summer; I did the
 database and the checking of the sheets. I, have also, created an Android
 app to monitor the fuel consumption in multiple vehicles, using the Android
 SQLite Database for storage.



 On 6 October 2014 18:37, Adam Young ayo...@redhat.com wrote:

  On 10/06/2014 01:14 PM, Patricia Ellis wrote:

  My name is Patricia Ellis, I am a fourth year software development
 student at Cork Institute of Technology. I am looking for ideas for my
 final year project. I have six weeks to get my proposal together and then
 13 weeks to implement it. I am hoping you might have a suitable project on
 your wish list, one which is of the ”low hanging fruit” variety as my time
 frame is tight.


 ___
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  Patricia,

 I am Keystone core developer.  I have several ideas.   It really depends
 on your skills and interests.

 Are you a security person?

 If not,  are you a web development type person?

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 http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev



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Re: [openstack-dev] Suggestions for students final year project

2014-10-06 Thread Adam Young

On 10/06/2014 03:25 PM, Patricia Ellis wrote:

Hi Adam,

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

I'm more of a web development type than security. I have some maths 
background so perhaps something with data analysis.


To date I have done mostly Java, some JavaScript, Html, and MySQL. I 
am interested in learning Python. I co-developed a web app to check 
and commit time-sheets to a database during my work experience this 
summer; I did the database and the checking of the sheets. I, have 
also, created an Android app to monitor the fuel consumption in 
multiple vehicles, using the Android SQLite Database for storage.




I am looking to get someone to work on a Javascript based web client to 
replace Horizon.  There has been some work along these lines already.


Beyond that, most of the projects I have are Python based Keystone 
features.  You can see the kinds of things I am considering here:


https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/keystone-specs+owner:%22ayoung+%253Cayoung%2540redhat.com%253E%22,n,z




On 6 October 2014 18:37, Adam Young ayo...@redhat.com 
mailto:ayo...@redhat.com wrote:


On 10/06/2014 01:14 PM, Patricia Ellis wrote:


My name is Patricia Ellis, I am a fourth year software
development student at Cork Institute of Technology. I am looking
for ideas for my final year project. I have six weeks to get my
proposal together and then 13 weeks to implement it. I am hoping
you might have a suitable project on your wish list, one which is
of the ”low hanging fruit” variety as my time frame is tight.



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Patricia,

I am Keystone core developer.  I have several ideas.   It really
depends on your skills and interests.

Are you a security person?

If not,  are you a web development type person?

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Re: [openstack-dev] Suggestions for students final year project

2014-10-06 Thread Anita Kuno
On 10/06/2014 04:11 PM, Adam Young wrote:
 On 10/06/2014 03:25 PM, Patricia Ellis wrote:
 Hi Adam,

 Thanks for taking the time to reply.

 I'm more of a web development type than security. I have some maths
 background so perhaps something with data analysis.

 To date I have done mostly Java, some JavaScript, Html, and MySQL. I
 am interested in learning Python. I co-developed a web app to check
 and commit time-sheets to a database during my work experience this
 summer; I did the database and the checking of the sheets. I, have
 also, created an Android app to monitor the fuel consumption in
 multiple vehicles, using the Android SQLite Database for storage.

 
 I am looking to get someone to work on a Javascript based web client to
 replace Horizon.
Can I just say that I think using new people looking to have work
experience with OpenStack to further pet projects, without telling them
it is a pet project and not considered a project which others may
consider OpenStack to be not the best approach for encouraging new people.

Not knocking your project, Adam, since I know nothing about it, and this
isn't the first time I have seen this happen. But I do believe that
folks asking to help out with something are looking to gain transferable
skills so that they have something to offer a potential employeer who is
looking for work experience with OpenStack. That would be what I would
be looking for anyway.

New people have no idea what are considered transferable skills within
OpenStack unless we tell them.

Thanks,
Anita.

  There has been some work along these lines already.
 
 Beyond that, most of the projects I have are Python based Keystone
 features.  You can see the kinds of things I am considering here:
 
 https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/keystone-specs+owner:%22ayoung+%253Cayoung%2540redhat.com%253E%22,n,z
 
 


 On 6 October 2014 18:37, Adam Young ayo...@redhat.com
 mailto:ayo...@redhat.com wrote:

 On 10/06/2014 01:14 PM, Patricia Ellis wrote:

 My name is Patricia Ellis, I am a fourth year software
 development student at Cork Institute of Technology. I am looking
 for ideas for my final year project. I have six weeks to get my
 proposal together and then 13 weeks to implement it. I am hoping
 you might have a suitable project on your wish list, one which is
 of the ”low hanging fruit” variety as my time frame is tight.



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 mailto:OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org
 http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
 Patricia,

 I am Keystone core developer.  I have several ideas.   It really
 depends on your skills and interests.

 Are you a security person?

 If not,  are you a web development type person?

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 mailto:OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org
 http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev




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