Re: [openstack-dev] usability anti-pattern, part 2

2014-09-24 Thread Ed Leafe
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Hash: SHA1

On 09/19/2014 09:01 PM, Monty Taylor wrote:
 except exc.Unauthorized:
 raise exc.CommandError(Invalid OpenStack credentials.)
 except exc.AuthorizationFailure:
 raise exc.CommandError(Unable to authorize user)
 
 This is pervasive enough that both of those exceptions come from
 openstack.common.
 
 Anyone?
 
 Please. Explain the difference. In words.

I think that there are two problems here: first, the message for
Unauthorized is wrong; it should be something like You are not
authorized to do X. The second exception should most likely be
'AuthenticationFailure', and should have the error text from the
Authentication exception.

I've seen confusion between authz and authn in many projects; looks like
OpenStack is no different, unfortunately.


- -- Ed Leafe
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Re: [openstack-dev] usability anti-pattern

2014-09-22 Thread Solly Ross
Monty, your messages are always super-entertaining to read.
They also generally have very good points, which is an added bonus :-P

- Original Message -
 From: Monty Taylor mord...@inaugust.com
 To: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) 
 openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org
 Sent: Friday, September 19, 2014 9:52:46 PM
 Subject: [openstack-dev] usability anti-pattern
 
 Hey,
 
 Not to name names, but some of our client libs do this:
 
   client.Client(API_VERSION, os_username, ... )
 
 I'm pretty sure they got the idea from python-glanceclient, so I blame
 Brian Waldon, since he left us for CoreOS.
 
 PLEASE STOP DOING THIS - IT CAUSES BABIES TO CRY. MORE.
 
 As a developer, I have no way of knowing what to put here. Also, imagine
 I'm writing a script that wants to talk to more than one cloud to do
 things - like, say, nodepool for Infra, or an ansible openstack
 inventory module. NOW WHAT? What do I put??? How do I discover that?
 
 Let me make a suggestion...
 
 Default it to something. Make it an optional parameter for experts. THEN
 - when the client lib talks to keystone, check the service catalog for
 the API version.
 
 What's this you say? Sometimes your service doesn't expose a version in
 the keystone catalog?
 
 PLEASE STOP DOING THIS - IT CAUSES DOLPHINS TO WEEP
 
 If you have versioned APIs, put the version in keystone. Because
 otherwise, as as a developer have absolutely zero way to figure it out.
 
 Well, except for the algorithm jeblair suggested: just start with 11
 and count backwards until a number works
 
 This message brought to you by frustrated humans trying to use the cloud.
 
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Re: [openstack-dev] usability anti-pattern, part 2

2014-09-19 Thread Dean Troyer
[OK, I'll bite...just once more...because dammit I want this crap fixed
too.]

I know you know this Monty, but for the benefit of the folks who don't, the
client library situation is a result of them belonging to the projects they
serve, each one[0] forked from a different one forked from jkm's original,
without having any sort of mechanism to stay in sync, like a cross-project
(BINGO!) effort to keep things consistent.

We may not want a BDFL, but we NEED someone to say NO when necessary for
the sake of the entire project.  Jeez, now I'm sounding all enterprisey.

On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 9:01 PM, Monty Taylor mord...@inaugust.com wrote:

 except exc.Unauthorized:
 raise exc.CommandError(Invalid OpenStack credentials.)
 except exc.AuthorizationFailure:
 raise exc.CommandError(Unable to authorize user)

 This is pervasive enough that both of those exceptions come from
 openstack.common.


If thats from apiclient, I have a guess.  apiclient was an attempt (by
someone who got frustrated and left us) to build a common core for the
clients.  However, in many ways wound up being a UNION of them.  And scene.

I'm guessing that what it actually is is that randomly some things

return one, some things return the other, and there is absolutely no
 rhyme nor reason. Or, more likely, that termie liked the spelling of one
 of them better.


I like that explanation but this isn't from OCL.  Actually we'd have been
much farther down the road if we had used Termie's bits a year ago. Whether
that is a bug or a feature is left to the reader to decide.

Code speaks, sometimes, so I'm going back to writing some more client bits.
 Someone come help.

dt

[0] except swift and glance, both of which were originally in the server
repo.

-- 

Dean Troyer
dtro...@gmail.com
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Re: [openstack-dev] usability anti-pattern, part 2

2014-09-19 Thread Monty Taylor
On 09/19/2014 10:05 PM, Dean Troyer wrote:
 [OK, I'll bite...just once more...because dammit I want this crap fixed
 too.]

It's tough to avoid when I toss you such juicy bones isn't it?

 I know you know this Monty, but for the benefit of the folks who don't, the
 client library situation is a result of them belonging to the projects they
 serve, each one[0] forked from a different one forked from jkm's original,
 without having any sort of mechanism to stay in sync, like a cross-project
 (BINGO!) effort to keep things consistent.
 
 We may not want a BDFL, but we NEED someone to say NO when necessary for
 the sake of the entire project.  Jeez, now I'm sounding all enterprisey.
 
 On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 9:01 PM, Monty Taylor mord...@inaugust.com wrote:
 
 except exc.Unauthorized:
 raise exc.CommandError(Invalid OpenStack credentials.)
 except exc.AuthorizationFailure:
 raise exc.CommandError(Unable to authorize user)

 This is pervasive enough that both of those exceptions come from
 openstack.common.

 
 If thats from apiclient, I have a guess.  apiclient was an attempt (by
 someone who got frustrated and left us) to build a common core for the
 clients.  However, in many ways wound up being a UNION of them.  And scene.
 
 I'm guessing that what it actually is is that randomly some things

 return one, some things return the other, and there is absolutely no
 rhyme nor reason. Or, more likely, that termie liked the spelling of one
 of them better.

 
 I like that explanation but this isn't from OCL.  Actually we'd have been
 much farther down the road if we had used Termie's bits a year ago. Whether
 that is a bug or a feature is left to the reader to decide.
 
 Code speaks, sometimes, so I'm going back to writing some more client bits.
  Someone come help.

++

I'm looking forward very much to openstacksdk, btw...

 dt
 
 [0] except swift and glance, both of which were originally in the server
 repo.
 
 
 
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