Re: [Openstack] Nova Core Cleanup
On Wed, 2012-05-09 at 11:34 +0100, Mark McLoughlin wrote: I rarely -2, because I see it as a strong veto which blocks the patch or later revisions of the patch until I remove the -2. Maybe it's just the fact that I know I'm likely to be slow to come back and review later revisions of a patch that I've put a -2 on. Maybe I should just fix that :-) Ok, here's what I'm going to try - it might help others too I've set up a filter to catch mails containing: Gerrit-Reviewer: Mark McLoughlin and move them into a myreviews folder. That way I separate follow-ups to my reviews from all the rest of the gerrit spam Cheers, Mark. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] Nova Core Cleanup
The problem here is there are two opposing points: the idea that there are too many core reviewers, and the idea that patches aren't being reviewed fast enough. *Drags a yak into the room* Beyond that, what makes 20 better than 25, or 15, especially in light of the fact that we're not happy with how quickly reviews are moving? It seems like the answer here isn't just quantity, but a matter of focus and relative skill sets. I'm a core developer but, beyond code quality, I couldn't review in the best interests of functionality in and around KVM. Conversely, I'm sure most core developers couldn't do any better for XenServer. I liked the idea of lieutenants when it first came up almost 2 years ago. Have we talked about reinstating that? On 5/9/12 5:34 AM, Mark McLoughlin mar...@redhat.com wrote: On Tue, 2012-05-08 at 15:44 -0700, Vishvananda Ishaya wrote: The -2 issue is a good point. I personally treat a -1 (or +1) from the author of a given piece of code quite strongly when I do reviews, but you're right that the -1 could be more trivially overridden. Coincidentally, dprince and I discussed this a bit yesterday. I rarely -2, because I see it as a strong veto which blocks the patch or later revisions of the patch until I remove the -2. Maybe it's just the fact that I know I'm likely to be slow to come back and review later revisions of a patch that I've put a -2 on. Maybe I should just fix that :-) On the flip-side, I respect (and expect others to respect) a -1 from a core reviewer when reviewing later revisions of a patch - i.e. if I see a -1 from a core reviewer, then I check that the later revisions of the patch have actually addressed the previous concerns. If core reviewers' concerns are consistently ignored, that'd definitely cause me to pull out the big old -2. The removal is primarily to keep core a manageable size. We currently have 25 core members and still have many patches that are not being quickly reviewed. Giving too many people the ability to approve patches leads to inconsistency in code and the review process. It seems like overkill to have 20 people. I expect this number to decrease further if out plans to create substystem branches materialize. I agree, FWIW. 20 seems like the right number, more than that and I think folks assume someone else will do it, core membership isn't for life, the requirement that core members are actually active is a great incentive to do reviews, folks can easily be re-added again later, etc. etc. Cheers, Mark. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] Nova Core Cleanup
On Wed, 2012-05-09 at 19:58 +, Matt Dietz wrote: The problem here is there are two opposing points: the idea that there are too many core reviewers, and the idea that patches aren't being reviewed fast enough. *Drags a yak into the room* Beyond that, what makes 20 better than 25, or 15, especially in light of the fact that we're not happy with how quickly reviews are moving? I think the idea is that letting core reviewers know that their membership of core is dependent on them actually doing reviews is an incentive for core members to be more active reviewers. It seems like the answer here isn't just quantity, but a matter of focus and relative skill sets. I'm a core developer but, beyond code quality, I couldn't review in the best interests of functionality in and around KVM. Conversely, I'm sure most core developers couldn't do any better for XenServer. I liked the idea of lieutenants when it first came up almost 2 years ago. Have we talked about reinstating that? Yes, see the Nova subsystem branches and feature branches thread this week Cheers, Mark. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] Nova Core Cleanup
Just wondering, who is maintaining the review day schedule? (http://wiki.openstack.org/Nova/ReviewDays) I can easily make time for more reviews if I tell folks it's my review day, but I have not seen my name on the schedule there for several weeks. On May 8, 2012, at 11:46 AM, Vishvananda Ishaya wrote: Hey Everyone, There appear to be a number of people on nova-core that no longer have sufficient time to participate in reviews. In order to facilitate the review process, I'd like to remove some of these people and consider if we may need to add some new core members. By my count (from http://nova.openstack.org/~soren/stats/nova-review-stats.html) the following people have been very low on reviews over the past few months: Brian Lamar (12) Jesse Andrews (12) Joshua McKenty (0) Monsyne Dragon (12) Monty Taylor (4) Paul Voccio (7) Soren Hansen (10) termie (0) Todd Willey (0) Lorin Hochstein (2) I would like to propose that we remove the above 10 people from nova-core. When they have time in busy schedule to start reviewing again, we can bring them back in. If I don't hear any dissenting votes in the next week, I will remove them. Please keep in mind that this isn't intended to question the amazing work that all of these people have done for nova. Nova-core is a review team, so we have to make sure the people on it actually have time to do reviews. Vish ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.netmailto:openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Monsyne M. Dragon OpenStack/Nova cell 210-441-0965 work x 5014190 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] Nova Core Cleanup
Monsyne Dragon wrote: Just wondering, who is maintaining the review day schedule? (http://wiki.openstack.org/Nova/ReviewDays) Soren was maintaining it. Cheers, -- Thierry Carrez (ttx) Release Manager, OpenStack ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] Nova Core Cleanup
I'll be the second to admit I haven't been doing a ton of reviews lately, but that doesn't mean I'm not dedicated to making the project the best it can be. That is not to say your email implies any judgement but I'd love a couple clarifications. What are the minimum requirements, in your mind (since you're proposing members for removal), for keeping core membership? (Your answer could be just pointing me to the wiki page where guidelines for minimum flair have been described.) Is the re-joining of nova-core the same process as joining in the first place? What are the benefits of having a smaller team in your mind? Many people on this list have dedicated countless hours to the project and have contributed thousands of lines of code. One huge benefit I see of being nova-core is the ability to -2 code which you believe is going to be detrimental to the project as a whole, perhaps because you have worked with or have contributed that code in the past. Long story short, this is a logical list to throw out there, I'm just not sure of the motivation and the course those on the list can take to remain off of future lists. Lamar On May 8, 2012, at 12:46 PM, Vishvananda Ishaya wrote: Hey Everyone, There appear to be a number of people on nova-core that no longer have sufficient time to participate in reviews. In order to facilitate the review process, I'd like to remove some of these people and consider if we may need to add some new core members. By my count (from http://nova.openstack.org/~soren/stats/nova-review-stats.html) the following people have been very low on reviews over the past few months: Brian Lamar (12) Jesse Andrews (12) Joshua McKenty (0) Monsyne Dragon (12) Monty Taylor (4) Paul Voccio (7) Soren Hansen (10) termie (0) Todd Willey (0) Lorin Hochstein (2) I would like to propose that we remove the above 10 people from nova-core. When they have time in busy schedule to start reviewing again, we can bring them back in. If I don't hear any dissenting votes in the next week, I will remove them. Please keep in mind that this isn't intended to question the amazing work that all of these people have done for nova. Nova-core is a review team, so we have to make sure the people on it actually have time to do reviews. Vish ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.netmailto:openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] Nova Core Cleanup
On May 8, 2012, at 3:19 PM, Brian Lamar wrote: I'll be the second to admit I haven't been doing a ton of reviews lately, but that doesn't mean I'm not dedicated to making the project the best it can be. That is not to say your email implies any judgement but I'd love a couple clarifications. What are the minimum requirements, in your mind (since you're proposing members for removal), for keeping core membership? (Your answer could be just pointing me to the wiki page where guidelines for minimum flair have been described.) There isn't an exact set of requirements, but I feel that people with rights to approve things into trunk should be people that consistently do reviews. I personally average 2 hours a day doing reviews. I expect to take a larger load than most because of my role as PTL, but I think it is reasonable to expect people to average 1 review per work day each month or ~20 reviews. The numbers in the previous mail were since Feb. 22nd, which means ~70 days. Is the re-joining of nova-core the same process as joining in the first place? That was my assumption, but we could come up with something different. What are the benefits of having a smaller team in your mind? Many people on this list have dedicated countless hours to the project and have contributed thousands of lines of code. One huge benefit I see of being nova-core is the ability to -2 code which you believe is going to be detrimental to the project as a whole, perhaps because you have worked with or have contributed that code in the past. The -2 issue is a good point. I personally treat a -1 (or +1) from the author of a given piece of code quite strongly when I do reviews, but you're right that the -1 could be more trivially overridden. The removal is primarily to keep core a manageable size. We currently have 25 core members and still have many patches that are not being quickly reviewed. Giving too many people the ability to approve patches leads to inconsistency in code and the review process. It seems like overkill to have 20 people. I expect this number to decrease further if out plans to create substystem branches materialize. Vish ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] Nova Core Cleanup
2012/5/8 Monsyne Dragon mdra...@rackspace.com: Just wondering, who is maintaining the review day schedule? (http://wiki.openstack.org/Nova/ReviewDays) I can easily make time for more reviews if I tell folks it's my review day, but I have not seen my name on the schedule there for several weeks. I do. I have a script that takes care of it, but for various reasons (the fact that some people don't have any public e-mail adresses on Launchpad being high on the list) I have to maintain it manually. It would appear that you've somehow managed to escape the list. :) I'll rectify that the next time I generate the table. -- Soren Hansen | http://linux2go.dk/ Senior Software Engineer | http://www.cisco.com/ Ubuntu Developer | http://www.ubuntu.com/ OpenStack Developer | http://www.openstack.org/ ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
