Re: Offshore protests

[Nuno Souto]

- Original Message - 
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> Hyderabad.
> USS Enterprise will have to be renamed to USS Utar Pradesh, with captain
> Sanjay
> and Mr. Spock at the helm. I can definitely see a value there.
> 

'sOK.  But I swear the first time I see anyone suggesting we outsource
driving taxis or milking cows to Mars via Internet, I'll spew!...

Cheers
Nuno Souto
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Author: Nuno Souto
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Re: Offshore protests

[Daniel Fink]

I can see it now.
2103 - "Can you believe it! They just outsourced my job to a martian!"
2203 - "Can you believe it! They just outsourced my job to some guy from Alpha 
Centauri"
2303 - "Can you believe it! They just outsourced my job to a being from a parallel 
dimension!"
2403 - "Can you believe it! They just outsourced my job to myself right after I 
graduated from college 25 years ago!"

Mladen Gogala wrote:

> Well, if we continue the trend, now allow me a little bit of SF here, then
> we
> will become a nation of indistinguishable bean counters while going to the
> moon
> and breaking the barriers in physics will be subcontracted to Bangalore and
> Hyderabad.
> USS Enterprise will have to be renamed to USS Utar Pradesh, with captain
> Sanjay
> and Mr. Spock at the helm. I can definitely see a value there.
>
> --
> Mladen Gogala
> Oracle DBA
begin:vcard 
n:Fink;Daniel
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
org:Sun Microsystems, Inc.
adr:;;
version:2.1
title:Lead, Database Services
x-mozilla-cpt:;9168
fn:Daniel  W. Fink
end:vcard

RE: Offshore protests + Idle events (to keep it On-track!)

[Stephane Paquette]

thanks

-Original Message-
Kirtikumar Deshpande
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 2:45 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I remove from this table the events deemed not idle for the database and
Application supported by
it. SQL*Net message related events can be important in client/server type
environments.

HTH,

- Kirti

--- Stephane Paquette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Can you elaborate on fixing the STATS$IDLE_EVENT table.
>
> Thanks
>
>
> Stephane Paquette
> Administrateur de bases de donnees
> Database Administrator
> Standard Life
> www.standardlife.ca
> Tel. (514) 499-7999 7470 and (514) 925-7187
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]

>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> Kirtikumar Deshpande
> Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 2:15 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
> If I install statspack, I always 'fix' the STATS$IDLE_EVENT table, and
also
> change the varibale
> top_n_events to 10 (from 5) in spreport.sql. Statspack is a very generic
> tool. One must 'tune' it
> to reflect ones environment...
>
> :)
>
> - Kirti
>
> --- John Kanagaraj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Dan,
> >
> > You said that very well (as usual). The problem is that Management
doesn't
> > usually see the downside of their downsizing actions until the stuff
hits
> > the fan. And Larry's statements about self-tuning databases are not
> helping
> > as well - they help apply pressure on a dwindling market, whether real
or
> > apparent. The ability to communicate complex problems in simple,
everyday
> > language will _always_ stand you in good stead - whether to the
business,
> to
> > management or your fellow workers. I recently replied patiently without
> > sarcasm to a question on an internal Java user group about why compiling
> > procedures/packages when users are online is a bad idea - I could have
> been
> > rude and told the largerly development audience off. The VP of
Development
> > was on that list (I didn't know about this) and wrote me a nice
> > complimentary note. I hope to stand well when there is a shake-up later
on
> > :)
> >
> > On Idle events - I had a situation previously when I was remotely
> diagnosing
> > a performance issue and noticed a large number of PQ related "idle"
> events.
> > Turns out that the DBA had switched on PQ to make the queries 'run
> faster' -
> > the two CPU server was just choked to death after this. These 'idle'
> events
> > from a Statspack report helped me solve the issue (turn off PQ on all
> tables
> > - it was an OLTP system).
> >
> > John Kanagaraj
> > DB Soft Inc
> > Phone: 408-970-7002 (W)
> >
> > Listen to great, commercial-free christian music 24x7x365 at
> > http://www.klove.com
> >
> > ** The opinions and facts contained in this message are entirely mine
and
> do
> > not reflect those of my employer or customers **
> >
> >
>
> __
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> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
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> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> --
> Author: Kirtikumar Deshpande
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
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> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
>
> --
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> --
> Author: Stephane Paquette
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).


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RE: Offshore protests + Idle events (to keep it On-track!)

[Kirtikumar Deshpande]

I remove from this table the events deemed not idle for the database and Application 
supported by
it. SQL*Net message related events can be important in client/server type 
environments. 

HTH,

- Kirti 

--- Stephane Paquette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Can you elaborate on fixing the STATS$IDLE_EVENT table.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> Stephane Paquette
> Administrateur de bases de donnees
> Database Administrator
> Standard Life
> www.standardlife.ca
> Tel. (514) 499-7999 7470 and (514) 925-7187
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> Kirtikumar Deshpande
> Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 2:15 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> If I install statspack, I always 'fix' the STATS$IDLE_EVENT table, and also
> change the varibale
> top_n_events to 10 (from 5) in spreport.sql. Statspack is a very generic
> tool. One must 'tune' it
> to reflect ones environment...
> 
> :)
> 
> - Kirti
> 
> --- John Kanagaraj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Dan,
> >
> > You said that very well (as usual). The problem is that Management doesn't
> > usually see the downside of their downsizing actions until the stuff hits
> > the fan. And Larry's statements about self-tuning databases are not
> helping
> > as well - they help apply pressure on a dwindling market, whether real or
> > apparent. The ability to communicate complex problems in simple, everyday
> > language will _always_ stand you in good stead - whether to the business,
> to
> > management or your fellow workers. I recently replied patiently without
> > sarcasm to a question on an internal Java user group about why compiling
> > procedures/packages when users are online is a bad idea - I could have
> been
> > rude and told the largerly development audience off. The VP of Development
> > was on that list (I didn't know about this) and wrote me a nice
> > complimentary note. I hope to stand well when there is a shake-up later on
> > :)
> >
> > On Idle events - I had a situation previously when I was remotely
> diagnosing
> > a performance issue and noticed a large number of PQ related "idle"
> events.
> > Turns out that the DBA had switched on PQ to make the queries 'run
> faster' -
> > the two CPU server was just choked to death after this. These 'idle'
> events
> > from a Statspack report helped me solve the issue (turn off PQ on all
> tables
> > - it was an OLTP system).
> >
> > John Kanagaraj
> > DB Soft Inc
> > Phone: 408-970-7002 (W)
> >
> > Listen to great, commercial-free christian music 24x7x365 at
> > http://www.klove.com
> >
> > ** The opinions and facts contained in this message are entirely mine and
> do
> > not reflect those of my employer or customers **
> >
> >
> 
> __
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
> http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> --
> Author: Kirtikumar Deshpande
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> -
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> 
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: Stephane Paquette
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> -
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).


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RE: Offshore protests

[Mladen Gogala]

Well, if we continue the trend, now allow me a little bit of SF here, then
we
will become a nation of indistinguishable bean counters while going to the
moon
and breaking the barriers in physics will be subcontracted to Bangalore and
Hyderabad.
USS Enterprise will have to be renamed to USS Utar Pradesh, with captain
Sanjay
and Mr. Spock at the helm. I can definitely see a value there.

--
Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA 



> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
> Behalf Of Daniel Fink
> Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 11:05 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: Re: Offshore protests
> 
> 
> I realize that it may be terrifying, but there is a great 
> deal of value in becoming indistinguishable. How many 
> accounting/hr/finance jobs are going overseas? None that I 
> have heard of. There are a ton of managers I wish we could 
> offshore (but only about 1 mile off shore...). Bear with me 
> for a moment, as I see the issue of 'self tuning' databases 
> and the 'death' of the dba as all of the same larger issue. 
> Consider Cary's quote "Work first to reduce the biggest 
> response time component of a business' most important user 
> action." To optimize we must understand the business and the 
> user, not just look at raw statistics from Enterprise 
> Manager. This requires constant interaction with all levels 
> of business, knowledge of the application architecture and 
> awareness of the business goals. None of these can be done by 
> a canned application nor isolated geek. If you solve problems 
> and make yourself valuable to the business, you are in a 
> better position to stay when others are let go. I'm not 
> advocating any of the sneaky, unethical, self-promoting 
> activities that some of our most despised coworkers are good 
> at, but it is important to manage your own personal, 
> technical and business reputations in a favorable light.
> 
> Before I step down from my soapbox, I'd like to address the 
> issue of 'idle' events. In my opinion, there are no 'idle' 
> events. Each event can have meaning within the context of the 
> system. I have seen SQL*Net messages indicate a chatty java 
> program and poor file configuration. I have also seen cases 
> where these messages consumed hours of time, but were safe to 
> ignore. The only way you can understand when to discount 
> these events is to have a solid understanding of the 
> application/process. Which is something those canned apps 
> can't do. The only way to understand properly is communication.
> 
> 
> Dan
> 
> Mladen Gogala wrote:
> 
> > No problem with beating people up. Violence is, contrary to Chris 
> > Lawson's book, an integral part of DBA job. BTW, Chris 
> Lawsons' "Art 
> > and Science of Tuning Oracle"
> > reads like Dale Carnegie for database administrators. 
> Basically, we should
> > give up
> > our cynical attitude, become indistinguishable from the 
> HR/finance drones
> > and get
> > rid of our geekish culture. Really terrifying stuff.
> >
> > --
> > Mladen Gogala
> > Oracle DBA
> 




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RE: Offshore protests + Idle events (to keep it On-track!)

[Stephane Paquette]

Can you elaborate on fixing the STATS$IDLE_EVENT table.

Thanks


Stephane Paquette
Administrateur de bases de donnees
Database Administrator
Standard Life
www.standardlife.ca
Tel. (514) 499-7999 7470 and (514) 925-7187
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 



-Original Message-
Kirtikumar Deshpande
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 2:15 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


If I install statspack, I always 'fix' the STATS$IDLE_EVENT table, and also
change the varibale
top_n_events to 10 (from 5) in spreport.sql. Statspack is a very generic
tool. One must 'tune' it
to reflect ones environment...

:)

- Kirti

--- John Kanagaraj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Dan,
>
> You said that very well (as usual). The problem is that Management doesn't
> usually see the downside of their downsizing actions until the stuff hits
> the fan. And Larry's statements about self-tuning databases are not
helping
> as well - they help apply pressure on a dwindling market, whether real or
> apparent. The ability to communicate complex problems in simple, everyday
> language will _always_ stand you in good stead - whether to the business,
to
> management or your fellow workers. I recently replied patiently without
> sarcasm to a question on an internal Java user group about why compiling
> procedures/packages when users are online is a bad idea - I could have
been
> rude and told the largerly development audience off. The VP of Development
> was on that list (I didn't know about this) and wrote me a nice
> complimentary note. I hope to stand well when there is a shake-up later on
> :)
>
> On Idle events - I had a situation previously when I was remotely
diagnosing
> a performance issue and noticed a large number of PQ related "idle"
events.
> Turns out that the DBA had switched on PQ to make the queries 'run
faster' -
> the two CPU server was just choked to death after this. These 'idle'
events
> from a Statspack report helped me solve the issue (turn off PQ on all
tables
> - it was an OLTP system).
>
> John Kanagaraj
> DB Soft Inc
> Phone: 408-970-7002 (W)
>
> Listen to great, commercial-free christian music 24x7x365 at
> http://www.klove.com
>
> ** The opinions and facts contained in this message are entirely mine and
do
> not reflect those of my employer or customers **
>
>

__
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--
Author: Kirtikumar Deshpande
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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-- 
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-- 
Author: Stephane Paquette
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
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RE: Offshore protests + Idle events (to keep it On-track!)

[Kirtikumar Deshpande]

If I install statspack, I always 'fix' the STATS$IDLE_EVENT table, and also change the 
varibale
top_n_events to 10 (from 5) in spreport.sql. Statspack is a very generic tool. One 
must 'tune' it
to reflect ones environment...  

:) 

- Kirti 

--- John Kanagaraj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Dan,
> 
> You said that very well (as usual). The problem is that Management doesn't
> usually see the downside of their downsizing actions until the stuff hits
> the fan. And Larry's statements about self-tuning databases are not helping
> as well - they help apply pressure on a dwindling market, whether real or
> apparent. The ability to communicate complex problems in simple, everyday
> language will _always_ stand you in good stead - whether to the business, to
> management or your fellow workers. I recently replied patiently without
> sarcasm to a question on an internal Java user group about why compiling
> procedures/packages when users are online is a bad idea - I could have been
> rude and told the largerly development audience off. The VP of Development
> was on that list (I didn't know about this) and wrote me a nice
> complimentary note. I hope to stand well when there is a shake-up later on
> :)
> 
> On Idle events - I had a situation previously when I was remotely diagnosing
> a performance issue and noticed a large number of PQ related "idle" events.
> Turns out that the DBA had switched on PQ to make the queries 'run faster' -
> the two CPU server was just choked to death after this. These 'idle' events
> from a Statspack report helped me solve the issue (turn off PQ on all tables
> - it was an OLTP system).
> 
> John Kanagaraj
> DB Soft Inc
> Phone: 408-970-7002 (W)
> 
> Listen to great, commercial-free christian music 24x7x365 at
> http://www.klove.com
> 
> ** The opinions and facts contained in this message are entirely mine and do
> not reflect those of my employer or customers **
> 
> 

__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: Kirtikumar Deshpande
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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-
To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

RE: Offshore protests + Idle events (to keep it On-track!)

[John Kanagaraj]

Dan,

You said that very well (as usual). The problem is that Management doesn't
usually see the downside of their downsizing actions until the stuff hits
the fan. And Larry's statements about self-tuning databases are not helping
as well - they help apply pressure on a dwindling market, whether real or
apparent. The ability to communicate complex problems in simple, everyday
language will _always_ stand you in good stead - whether to the business, to
management or your fellow workers. I recently replied patiently without
sarcasm to a question on an internal Java user group about why compiling
procedures/packages when users are online is a bad idea - I could have been
rude and told the largerly development audience off. The VP of Development
was on that list (I didn't know about this) and wrote me a nice
complimentary note. I hope to stand well when there is a shake-up later on
:)

On Idle events - I had a situation previously when I was remotely diagnosing
a performance issue and noticed a large number of PQ related "idle" events.
Turns out that the DBA had switched on PQ to make the queries 'run faster' -
the two CPU server was just choked to death after this. These 'idle' events
from a Statspack report helped me solve the issue (turn off PQ on all tables
- it was an OLTP system).

John Kanagaraj
DB Soft Inc
Phone: 408-970-7002 (W)

Listen to great, commercial-free christian music 24x7x365 at
http://www.klove.com

** The opinions and facts contained in this message are entirely mine and do
not reflect those of my employer or customers **

>-Original Message-
>From: Daniel Fink [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 8:05 AM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>Subject: Re: Offshore protests
>
>
>I realize that it may be terrifying, but there is a great deal 
>of value in becoming indistinguishable. How many 
>accounting/hr/finance jobs are going overseas? None that I 
>have heard of. There are a ton of managers I wish we could 
>offshore (but only about 1 mile off shore...). Bear with me 
>for a moment, as I see the issue of 'self tuning' databases 
>and the 'death' of the dba as all of the same larger issue. 
>Consider Cary's quote "Work first to reduce the biggest 
>response time component of a business' most important user 
>action." To optimize we must understand the business and the 
>user, not just look at raw statistics from
>Enterprise Manager. This requires constant interaction with 
>all levels of business, knowledge of the application 
>architecture and awareness of the business goals. None of 
>these can be done by a canned application nor isolated geek. 
>If you solve problems and make yourself valuable to the 
>business, you are in a better position to stay when others are 
>let go. I'm not advocating any of the sneaky, unethical, 
>self-promoting activities that some of our most despised 
>coworkers are good at, but it is important to manage your own 
>personal, technical and business reputations in a favorable light.
>
>Before I step down from my soapbox, I'd like to address the 
>issue of 'idle' events. In my opinion, there are no 'idle' 
>events. Each event can have meaning within the context of the 
>system. I have seen SQL*Net messages indicate a chatty java 
>program and poor file configuration. I have also seen cases 
>where these messages consumed hours of time, but were safe to 
>ignore. The only way you can understand when to discount these 
>events is to have a solid understanding of the 
>application/process. Which is something those canned apps 
>can't do. The only way to understand properly is communication.
>
>
>Dan
>
>Mladen Gogala wrote:
>
>> No problem with beating people up. Violence is, contrary to 
>Chris Lawson's
>> book,
>> an integral part of DBA job. BTW, Chris Lawsons' "Art and 
>Science of Tuning
>> Oracle"
>> reads like Dale Carnegie for database administrators. 
>Basically, we should
>> give up
>> our cynical attitude, become indistinguishable from the 
>HR/finance drones
>> and get
>> rid of our geekish culture. Really terrifying stuff.
>>
>> --
>> Mladen Gogala
>> Oracle DBA
>
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: John Kanagaraj
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

RE: Offshore protests

[Robson, Peter]

Hmmm, odd reply, Dennis.

I think you may just have inserted a perjorative complexion into the reading
of my email, which was most certainly not there! Or perhaps you were
confusing my reply with those from others on this thread? The 'winning of
friends and influencing people' as stated by DC is as relevant today as it
was when first published, if a bit corny. It was, after all, written for a
very different world than our own. 

So you are, after all, absolutely correct in your analysis. (ps - that is a
little practical Dale Carnegie for you to enjoy!) 

peter
edinburgh

> -Original Message-
> From: DENNIS WILLIAMS [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 4:20 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: RE: Offshore protests
> 
> 
> Peter
>If you feel the being an experienced Oracle DBA will 
> continue to be as
> scarce a commodity as it was during the dot-com boom, then 
> read no further.
> If however, you feel that in the future you may no longer 
> rely on being
> treated like royalty, then I would argue that Dale has some 
> very relevant
> points for the DBA that wants to increase interpersonal 
> skills. And I have
> surveyed many of the self-help books being published and haven't found
> anyone that says it better. The only problem, as you say with 
> the 50+ years
> since he wrote, many of his examples are dated. 
> 
> Dennis Williams
> DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA
> Lifetouch, Inc.
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 4:14 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> "Dale Carnegie" ? ! My - that dates you! (Unless it has recently been
> reprinted - after 50 years!)
> 
> peter
> edinburgh
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Mladen Gogala [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 5:55 PM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > Subject: RE: Offshore protests
> > 
> > 
> > No problem with beating people up. Violence is, contrary to 
> > Chris Lawson's
> > book,
> > an integral part of DBA job. BTW, Chris Lawsons' "Art and 
> > Science of Tuning
> > Oracle" 
> > reads like Dale Carnegie for database administrators. 
> > Basically, we should
> > give up
> > our cynical attitude, become indistinguishable from the 
> > HR/finance drones
> > and get
> > rid of our geekish culture. Really terrifying stuff.
> > 
> > --
> > Mladen Gogala
> > Oracle DBA 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
> > > Behalf Of Orr, Steve
> > > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 12:35 PM
> > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > Subject: RE: Offshore protests
> > > 
> > > 
> > > But do we have to beat up people who refuse to join... 
> > > Or "make an offer they can't refuse."  ;-)
> > > 
> > > -Original Message-
> > > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:00 AM
> > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Definitely steel workers. We are being left to sweat in dark 
> > > and we frequently get burnt by fire. 
> > > 
> > > --
> > > Mladen Gogala
> > > Oracle DBA 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > > On Behalf 
> > > > Of KENNETH JANUSZ
> > > > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:30 AM
> > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > > Subject: Re: Offshore protests
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > The labor unions would definitely be interested.  
> > Teamsters, Steel 
> > > > Workers, AFSME?
> > > > 
> > > > Ken Janusz, CPIM
> > > > 
> > > > - Original Message -
> > > > To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:09 AM
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > > We could make a splash by organizing a DBA union. I'm 
> > > sure that all 
> > > > > heads
> > > > on
> > > > > the Capitol Hill
> > > > > would turn when both members show up with banners, 
> > > demanding better 
> > > > > pay
> > > > for
> > >

RE: Offshore protests

[Odland, Brad]

DBA Interpersonal skills

Before Dale Carnegie:

What the HELL do you want NOW!!
SHUTUP!! Get OUT and don't come back until you do what I told you to last
time!
Stop wasting my TIME with your sh*tty code!

After Dale Carnegie:

Hi! Brad OdlandDamn glad to see you!


Is that your query? Say, you look terrific is that a new suit?

Please take my chair. No no no it is perfectly finecan I get you a
coffee? Soda?

How are the wife and kids? Greeeat...yehhh.

Tell them I said hi and it was nice to see them at the company picnic.


:::GAK!...I just gagged thinking about this::



-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 10:20 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Peter
   If you feel the being an experienced Oracle DBA will continue to be as
scarce a commodity as it was during the dot-com boom, then read no further.
If however, you feel that in the future you may no longer rely on being
treated like royalty, then I would argue that Dale has some very relevant
points for the DBA that wants to increase interpersonal skills. And I have
surveyed many of the self-help books being published and haven't found
anyone that says it better. The only problem, as you say with the 50+ years
since he wrote, many of his examples are dated. 

Dennis Williams
DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 


-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 4:14 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


"Dale Carnegie" ? ! My - that dates you! (Unless it has recently been
reprinted - after 50 years!)

peter
edinburgh


> -Original Message-
> From: Mladen Gogala [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 5:55 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: RE: Offshore protests
> 
> 
> No problem with beating people up. Violence is, contrary to 
> Chris Lawson's
> book,
> an integral part of DBA job. BTW, Chris Lawsons' "Art and 
> Science of Tuning
> Oracle" 
> reads like Dale Carnegie for database administrators. 
> Basically, we should
> give up
> our cynical attitude, become indistinguishable from the 
> HR/finance drones
> and get
> rid of our geekish culture. Really terrifying stuff.
> 
> --
> Mladen Gogala
> Oracle DBA 
> 
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
> > Behalf Of Orr, Steve
> > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 12:35 PM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > Subject: RE: Offshore protests
> > 
> > 
> > But do we have to beat up people who refuse to join... 
> > Or "make an offer they can't refuse."  ;-)
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:00 AM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > 
> > 
> > Definitely steel workers. We are being left to sweat in dark 
> > and we frequently get burnt by fire. 
> > 
> > --
> > Mladen Gogala
> > Oracle DBA 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > On Behalf 
> > > Of KENNETH JANUSZ
> > > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:30 AM
> > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > Subject: Re: Offshore protests
> > > 
> > > 
> > > The labor unions would definitely be interested.  
> Teamsters, Steel 
> > > Workers, AFSME?
> > > 
> > > Ken Janusz, CPIM
> > > 
> > > - Original Message -
> > > To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:09 AM
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > We could make a splash by organizing a DBA union. I'm 
> > sure that all 
> > > > heads
> > > on
> > > > the Capitol Hill
> > > > would turn when both members show up with banners, 
> > demanding better 
> > > > pay
> > > for
> > > > starved database
> > > > administrators. What do you think, should we mandate 9i OCP for 
> > > > joining
> > > the
> > > > union? If we were
> > > > in London, we could have a permanent beer table at the
> > > White Heart pub
> > > > (or is it the Sphere?). We might even encounter Harry 
> Purvis and 
> > > > exchange the union stories.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Mladen Gogala
> > > > Oracle DBA
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > -Original Message-
> > > > > From

RE: Offshore protests

[DENNIS WILLIAMS]

Peter
   If you feel the being an experienced Oracle DBA will continue to be as
scarce a commodity as it was during the dot-com boom, then read no further.
If however, you feel that in the future you may no longer rely on being
treated like royalty, then I would argue that Dale has some very relevant
points for the DBA that wants to increase interpersonal skills. And I have
surveyed many of the self-help books being published and haven't found
anyone that says it better. The only problem, as you say with the 50+ years
since he wrote, many of his examples are dated. 

Dennis Williams
DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 


-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 4:14 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


"Dale Carnegie" ? ! My - that dates you! (Unless it has recently been
reprinted - after 50 years!)

peter
edinburgh


> -Original Message-
> From: Mladen Gogala [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 5:55 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: RE: Offshore protests
> 
> 
> No problem with beating people up. Violence is, contrary to 
> Chris Lawson's
> book,
> an integral part of DBA job. BTW, Chris Lawsons' "Art and 
> Science of Tuning
> Oracle" 
> reads like Dale Carnegie for database administrators. 
> Basically, we should
> give up
> our cynical attitude, become indistinguishable from the 
> HR/finance drones
> and get
> rid of our geekish culture. Really terrifying stuff.
> 
> --
> Mladen Gogala
> Oracle DBA 
> 
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
> > Behalf Of Orr, Steve
> > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 12:35 PM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > Subject: RE: Offshore protests
> > 
> > 
> > But do we have to beat up people who refuse to join... 
> > Or "make an offer they can't refuse."  ;-)
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:00 AM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > 
> > 
> > Definitely steel workers. We are being left to sweat in dark 
> > and we frequently get burnt by fire. 
> > 
> > --
> > Mladen Gogala
> > Oracle DBA 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > On Behalf 
> > > Of KENNETH JANUSZ
> > > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:30 AM
> > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > Subject: Re: Offshore protests
> > > 
> > > 
> > > The labor unions would definitely be interested.  
> Teamsters, Steel 
> > > Workers, AFSME?
> > > 
> > > Ken Janusz, CPIM
> > > 
> > > - Original Message -
> > > To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:09 AM
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > We could make a splash by organizing a DBA union. I'm 
> > sure that all 
> > > > heads
> > > on
> > > > the Capitol Hill
> > > > would turn when both members show up with banners, 
> > demanding better 
> > > > pay
> > > for
> > > > starved database
> > > > administrators. What do you think, should we mandate 9i OCP for 
> > > > joining
> > > the
> > > > union? If we were
> > > > in London, we could have a permanent beer table at the
> > > White Heart pub
> > > > (or is it the Sphere?). We might even encounter Harry 
> Purvis and 
> > > > exchange the union stories.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Mladen Gogala
> > > > Oracle DBA
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > -Original Message-
> > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> > > > > Of DENNIS WILLIAMS
> > > > > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:45 AM
> > > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > > > Subject: Offshore protests
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Looks as if tech workers are learning the basics of 
> protesting.
> > > > > 
> > > 
> > http://informationweek.com/story/showArticle.j> 
> html?articleID=15000146
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Dennis Williams
> > > > > DBA, 80%OCP, 100%

Re: Offshore protests

[Daniel Fink]

I realize that it may be terrifying, but there is a great deal of value in becoming 
indistinguishable. How many accounting/hr/finance jobs are going overseas? None that I 
have heard of. There are a ton of managers I wish we could offshore (but only about 1 
mile off shore...). Bear with me for a moment, as I see the issue of 'self tuning' 
databases and the 'death' of the dba as all of the same larger issue. Consider Cary's 
quote "Work first to reduce the biggest response time component of a business' most 
important user action." To optimize we must understand the business and the user, not 
just look at raw statistics from
Enterprise Manager. This requires constant interaction with all levels of business, 
knowledge of the application architecture and awareness of the business goals. None of 
these can be done by a canned application nor isolated geek. If you solve problems and 
make yourself valuable to the business, you are in a better position to stay when 
others are let go. I'm not advocating any of the sneaky, unethical, self-promoting 
activities that some of our most despised coworkers are good at, but it is important 
to manage your own personal, technical and business reputations in a favorable light.

Before I step down from my soapbox, I'd like to address the issue of 'idle' events. In 
my opinion, there are no 'idle' events. Each event can have meaning within the context 
of the system. I have seen SQL*Net messages indicate a chatty java program and poor 
file configuration. I have also seen cases where these messages consumed hours of 
time, but were safe to ignore. The only way you can understand when to discount these 
events is to have a solid understanding of the application/process. Which is something 
those canned apps can't do. The only way to understand properly is communication.


Dan

Mladen Gogala wrote:

> No problem with beating people up. Violence is, contrary to Chris Lawson's
> book,
> an integral part of DBA job. BTW, Chris Lawsons' "Art and Science of Tuning
> Oracle"
> reads like Dale Carnegie for database administrators. Basically, we should
> give up
> our cynical attitude, become indistinguishable from the HR/finance drones
> and get
> rid of our geekish culture. Really terrifying stuff.
>
> --
> Mladen Gogala
> Oracle DBA
begin:vcard 
n:Fink;Daniel
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
org:Sun Microsystems, Inc.
adr:;;
version:2.1
title:Lead, Database Services
x-mozilla-cpt:;9168
fn:Daniel  W. Fink
end:vcard

RE: Offshore protests

[Robson, Peter]

Hee hee hee! 

Then make the most of that erudite reply - you only have one year to indulge
it!


ps - just bought the CDs

> -Original Message-
> From: Mladen Gogala [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 1:15 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: Re: Offshore protests
> 
> 
> My age is the answer to the question of life, universe and everything.
> Unfortunately, I'm no longer in my twenties.
> 
> On 2003.09.23 05:13, "Robson, Peter" wrote:
> > "Dale Carnegie" ? ! My - that dates you! (Unless it has 
> recently been
> > reprinted - after 50 years!)
> > 
> > peter
> > edinburgh
> > 
> > 
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Mladen Gogala [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 5:55 PM
> > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > Subject: RE: Offshore protests
> > >
> > >
> > > No problem with beating people up. Violence is, contrary to
> > > Chris Lawson's
> > > book,
> > > an integral part of DBA job. BTW, Chris Lawsons' "Art and
> > > Science of Tuning
> > > Oracle"
> > > reads like Dale Carnegie for database administrators.
> > > Basically, we should
> > > give up
> > > our cynical attitude, become indistinguishable from the
> > > HR/finance drones
> > > and get
> > > rid of our geekish culture. Really terrifying stuff.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Mladen Gogala
> > > Oracle DBA
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > > > Behalf Of Orr, Steve
> > > > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 12:35 PM
> > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > > Subject: RE: Offshore protests
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > But do we have to beat up people who refuse to join...
> > > > Or "make an offer they can't refuse."  ;-)
> > > >
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:00 AM
> > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Definitely steel workers. We are being left to sweat in dark
> > > > and we frequently get burnt by fire.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Mladen Gogala
> > > > Oracle DBA
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > -Original Message-
> > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > On Behalf
> > > > > Of KENNETH JANUSZ
> > > > > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:30 AM
> > > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > > > Subject: Re: Offshore protests
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The labor unions would definitely be interested.
> > > Teamsters, Steel
> > > > > Workers, AFSME?
> > > > >
> > > > > Ken Janusz, CPIM
> > > > >
> > > > > - Original Message -
> > > > > To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:09 AM
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > We could make a splash by organizing a DBA union. I'm
> > > > sure that all
> > > > > > heads
> > > > > on
> > > > > > the Capitol Hill
> > > > > > would turn when both members show up with banners,
> > > > demanding better
> > > > > > pay
> > > > > for
> > > > > > starved database
> > > > > > administrators. What do you think, should we 
> mandate 9i OCP for
> > > > > > joining
> > > > > the
> > > > > > union? If we were
> > > > > > in London, we could have a permanent beer table at the
> > > > > White Heart pub
> > > > > > (or is it the Sphere?). We might even encounter Harry
> > > Purvis and
> > > > > > exchange the union stories.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Mladen Gogala
> > > > > > Oracle DBA
> > > > > >
> > > > >

Re: Offshore protests

[Mladen Gogala]

My age is the answer to the question of life, universe and everything.
Unfortunately, I'm no longer in my twenties.
On 2003.09.23 05:13, "Robson, Peter" wrote:
"Dale Carnegie" ? ! My - that dates you! (Unless it has recently been
reprinted - after 50 years!)
peter
edinburgh
> -Original Message-
> From: Mladen Gogala [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 5:55 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: RE: Offshore protests
>
>
> No problem with beating people up. Violence is, contrary to
> Chris Lawson's
> book,
> an integral part of DBA job. BTW, Chris Lawsons' "Art and
> Science of Tuning
> Oracle"
> reads like Dale Carnegie for database administrators.
> Basically, we should
> give up
> our cynical attitude, become indistinguishable from the
> HR/finance drones
> and get
> rid of our geekish culture. Really terrifying stuff.
>
> --
> Mladen Gogala
> Oracle DBA
>
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of Orr, Steve
> > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 12:35 PM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > Subject: RE: Offshore protests
> >
> >
> > But do we have to beat up people who refuse to join...
> > Or "make an offer they can't refuse."  ;-)
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:00 AM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >
> >
> > Definitely steel workers. We are being left to sweat in dark
> > and we frequently get burnt by fire.
> >
> > --
> > Mladen Gogala
> > Oracle DBA
> >
> >
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > On Behalf
> > > Of KENNETH JANUSZ
> > > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:30 AM
> > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > Subject: Re: Offshore protests
> > >
> > >
> > > The labor unions would definitely be interested.
> Teamsters, Steel
> > > Workers, AFSME?
> > >
> > > Ken Janusz, CPIM
> > >
> > > - Original Message -
> > > To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:09 AM
> > >
> > >
> > > > We could make a splash by organizing a DBA union. I'm
> > sure that all
> > > > heads
> > > on
> > > > the Capitol Hill
> > > > would turn when both members show up with banners,
> > demanding better
> > > > pay
> > > for
> > > > starved database
> > > > administrators. What do you think, should we mandate 9i OCP for
> > > > joining
> > > the
> > > > union? If we were
> > > > in London, we could have a permanent beer table at the
> > > White Heart pub
> > > > (or is it the Sphere?). We might even encounter Harry
> Purvis and
> > > > exchange the union stories.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Mladen Gogala
> > > > Oracle DBA
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > -Original Message-
> > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> > > > > Of DENNIS WILLIAMS
> > > > > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:45 AM
> > > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > > > Subject: Offshore protests
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Looks as if tech workers are learning the basics of
> protesting.
> > > > >
> > >
> > http://informationweek.com/story/showArticle.j>
> html?articleID=15000146
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Dennis Williams
> > > > > DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA
> > > > > Lifetouch, Inc.
> > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > > --
> > > > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> > > > > --
> > > > > Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS
> > > > >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > >
> > > > > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051
> > > http://www.fatcity.com
> > > > > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web
> > > hosting services
> > --
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://ww

RE: Offshore protests

[Robson, Peter]

"Dale Carnegie" ? ! My - that dates you! (Unless it has recently been
reprinted - after 50 years!)

peter
edinburgh


> -Original Message-
> From: Mladen Gogala [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 5:55 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: RE: Offshore protests
> 
> 
> No problem with beating people up. Violence is, contrary to 
> Chris Lawson's
> book,
> an integral part of DBA job. BTW, Chris Lawsons' "Art and 
> Science of Tuning
> Oracle" 
> reads like Dale Carnegie for database administrators. 
> Basically, we should
> give up
> our cynical attitude, become indistinguishable from the 
> HR/finance drones
> and get
> rid of our geekish culture. Really terrifying stuff.
> 
> --
> Mladen Gogala
> Oracle DBA 
> 
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
> > Behalf Of Orr, Steve
> > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 12:35 PM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > Subject: RE: Offshore protests
> > 
> > 
> > But do we have to beat up people who refuse to join... 
> > Or "make an offer they can't refuse."  ;-)
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:00 AM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > 
> > 
> > Definitely steel workers. We are being left to sweat in dark 
> > and we frequently get burnt by fire. 
> > 
> > --
> > Mladen Gogala
> > Oracle DBA 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > On Behalf 
> > > Of KENNETH JANUSZ
> > > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:30 AM
> > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > Subject: Re: Offshore protests
> > > 
> > > 
> > > The labor unions would definitely be interested.  
> Teamsters, Steel 
> > > Workers, AFSME?
> > > 
> > > Ken Janusz, CPIM
> > > 
> > > - Original Message -
> > > To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:09 AM
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > We could make a splash by organizing a DBA union. I'm 
> > sure that all 
> > > > heads
> > > on
> > > > the Capitol Hill
> > > > would turn when both members show up with banners, 
> > demanding better 
> > > > pay
> > > for
> > > > starved database
> > > > administrators. What do you think, should we mandate 9i OCP for 
> > > > joining
> > > the
> > > > union? If we were
> > > > in London, we could have a permanent beer table at the
> > > White Heart pub
> > > > (or is it the Sphere?). We might even encounter Harry 
> Purvis and 
> > > > exchange the union stories.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Mladen Gogala
> > > > Oracle DBA
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > -Original Message-
> > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> > > > > Of DENNIS WILLIAMS
> > > > > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:45 AM
> > > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > > > Subject: Offshore protests
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Looks as if tech workers are learning the basics of 
> protesting.
> > > > > 
> > > 
> > http://informationweek.com/story/showArticle.j> 
> html?articleID=15000146
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Dennis Williams
> > > > > DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA
> > > > > Lifetouch, Inc.
> > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > > --
> > > > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> > > > > --
> > > > > Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS
> > > > >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > >
> > > > > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 
> > > http://www.fatcity.com
> > > > > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web 
> > > hosting services
> > -- 
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> > -- 
> > Author: Orr, Steve
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 
> > Fat City

RE: Offshore protests

[Mladen Gogala]

Pssst, it's supposed to be a secret. Don't reveal it to anyone who is not on
the internet.

--
Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA 



> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
> Behalf Of Joe Testa
> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 2:15 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: Re: Offshore protests
> 
> 
> under the goalpost right?
> 
> joe
> 
> 
> Mladen Gogala wrote:
> 
> >Jimmy Hoffa would probably agree with you, once they pull 
> him out from 
> >beneath Meadowlands.
> >
> >--
> >Mladen Gogala
> >Oracle DBA
> >
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> >>-Original Message-
> >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> >>Behalf Of Weaver, Walt
> >>Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 1:35 PM
> >>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >>Subject: RE: RE: Offshore protests
> >>
> >>
> >>Have any DBA's ever been sued for malpractice?
> >>
> >>I used to belong to a union. One day the union told us to go
> >>on strike, and we did.
> >>
> >>22 years later, we're still on strike. I'm sure we'll be
> >>going back to work any day now. Then I can quit this 
> >>temporary IT career I've been working at for 22 years now.
> >>
> >>Unions suck, IMHO. Worst career move I ever made was 
> joining a union.
> >>
> >>--Walt
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>-Original Message-
> >>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>>Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:15 AM
> >>>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >>>Subject: Re: RE: Offshore protests
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>dba union could be considered a trust. doctors tried doing it and 
> >>>because they are 'independent businesses' its not a union its a 
> >>>trust. they did it to fight high mal-practice suits.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>  
> >>>
> >>>>From: "Orr, Steve" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>>>Date: 2003/09/22 Mon PM 12:34:40 EDT
> >>>>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>>>Subject: RE: Offshore protests
> >>>>
> >>>>But do we have to beat up people who refuse to join...
> >>>>Or "make an offer they can't refuse."  ;-)
> >>>>
> >>>>-Original Message-
> >>>>Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:00 AM
> >>>>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>Definitely steel workers. We are being left to sweat in
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>dark and we
> >>
> >>
> >>>>frequently get burnt by fire.
> >>>>
> >>>>--
> >>>>Mladen Gogala
> >>>>Oracle DBA
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>-Original Message-
> >>>>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> >>>>>Behalf Of KENNETH JANUSZ
> >>>>>Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:30 AM
> >>>>>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >>>>>Subject: Re: Offshore protests
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>The labor unions would definitely be interested.
> >>>>>  
> >>>>>
> >>Teamsters, Steel
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>Workers, AFSME?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Ken Janusz, CPIM
> >>>>>
> >>>>>- Original Message -
> >>>>>To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
> >>>>>  
> >>>>>
> >><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:09 AM
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>We could make a splash by organizing a DBA union. I'm
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>sure that all
> >>>  
> >>>
> >>>>>>heads
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
&

RE: RE: Offshore protests

[Cunningham, Gerald]

I think Walt beat Kramer's record on Seinfeld (remember the episode
where Kramer was on strike at the bagel shop?) 
 
I like to contribute to the list where I can... You're welcome.


-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 1:35 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Have any DBA's ever been sued for malpractice?

I used to belong to a union. One day the union told us to go on strike,
and we did.

22 years later, we're still on strike. I'm sure we'll be going back to
work any day now. Then I can quit this temporary IT career I've been
working at for 22 years now.

Unions suck, IMHO. Worst career move I ever made was joining a union.

--Walt

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:15 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: Re: RE: Offshore protests
> 
> 
> dba union could be considered a trust. doctors tried doing it
> and because they are 'independent businesses' its not a union 
> its a trust. they did it to fight high mal-practice suits. 
> 
> 
> > 
> > From: "Orr, Steve" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Date: 2003/09/22 Mon PM 12:34:40 EDT
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Subject: RE: Offshore protests
> > 
> > But do we have to beat up people who refuse to join...
> > Or "make an offer they can't refuse."  ;-)
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:00 AM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > 
> > 
> > Definitely steel workers. We are being left to sweat in dark and we 
> > frequently get burnt by fire.
> > 
> > --
> > Mladen Gogala
> > Oracle DBA
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
> > > Behalf Of KENNETH JANUSZ
> > > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:30 AM
> > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > Subject: Re: Offshore protests
> > > 
> > > 
> > > The labor unions would definitely be interested.  Teamsters, Steel

> > > Workers, AFSME?
> > > 
> > > Ken Janusz, CPIM
> > > 
> > > - Original Message -
> > > To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:09 AM
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > We could make a splash by organizing a DBA union. I'm
> sure that all
> > > > heads
> > > on
> > > > the Capitol Hill
> > > > would turn when both members show up with banners,
> demanding better
> > > > pay
> > > for
> > > > starved database
> > > > administrators. What do you think, should we mandate 9i OCP for 
> > > > joining
> > > the
> > > > union? If we were
> > > > in London, we could have a permanent beer table at the
> > > White Heart pub
> > > > (or is it the Sphere?). We might even encounter Harry Purvis and

> > > > exchange the union stories.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Mladen Gogala
> > > > Oracle DBA
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > -Original Message-
> > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> > > > > Of DENNIS WILLIAMS
> > > > > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:45 AM
> > > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > > > Subject: Offshore protests
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Looks as if tech workers are learning the basics of
> protesting.
> > > > > 
> > > 
> http://informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=15000146
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Dennis Williams
> > > > > DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA
> > > > > Lifetouch, Inc.
> > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > > --
> > > > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> > > > > --
> > > > > Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS
> > > > >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > >
> > > > > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 
> > > http://www.fatcity.com
> > > > > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web 
> > > hosting services
> > --
> > Pl

Re: Offshore protests

[Ed Lewis]

Yes. he was under the "visitors"
goalpost, but I heard he didn't like it
and moved to the "home" team's goalpost.

- Original Message - 
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 2:14 PM


> under the goalpost right?
>
> joe
>
>
> Mladen Gogala wrote:
>
> >Jimmy Hoffa would probably agree with you, once they pull him out
> >from beneath Meadowlands.
> >
> >--
> >Mladen Gogala
> >Oracle DBA
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>-Original Message-
> >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> >>Behalf Of Weaver, Walt
> >>Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 1:35 PM
> >>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >>Subject: RE: RE: Offshore protests
> >>
> >>
> >>Have any DBA's ever been sued for malpractice?
> >>
> >>I used to belong to a union. One day the union told us to go
> >>on strike, and we did.
> >>
> >>22 years later, we're still on strike. I'm sure we'll be
> >>going back to work any day now. Then I can quit this
> >>temporary IT career I've been working at for 22 years now.
> >>
> >>Unions suck, IMHO. Worst career move I ever made was joining a union.
> >>
> >>--Walt
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>-Original Message-
> >>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>>Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:15 AM
> >>>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >>>Subject: Re: RE: Offshore protests
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>dba union could be considered a trust. doctors tried doing it
> >>>and because they are 'independent businesses' its not a union
> >>>its a trust. they did it to fight high mal-practice suits.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>From: "Orr, Steve" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>>>Date: 2003/09/22 Mon PM 12:34:40 EDT
> >>>>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>>>Subject: RE: Offshore protests
> >>>>
> >>>>But do we have to beat up people who refuse to join...
> >>>>Or "make an offer they can't refuse."  ;-)
> >>>>
> >>>>-Original Message-
> >>>>Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:00 AM
> >>>>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>Definitely steel workers. We are being left to sweat in
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>dark and we
> >>
> >>
> >>>>frequently get burnt by fire.
> >>>>
> >>>>--
> >>>>Mladen Gogala
> >>>>Oracle DBA
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>-Original Message-
> >>>>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> >>>>>Behalf Of KENNETH JANUSZ
> >>>>>Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:30 AM
> >>>>>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >>>>>Subject: Re: Offshore protests
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>The labor unions would definitely be interested.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>Teamsters, Steel
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>Workers, AFSME?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Ken Janusz, CPIM
> >>>>>
> >>>>>- Original Message -
> >>>>>To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:09 AM
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>We could make a splash by organizing a DBA union. I'm
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>sure that all
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>heads
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>on
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>the Capitol Hill
> >>>>>>would turn when both members show up with banners,
> &g

RE: RE: Offshore protests

[Kip . Bryant]

While I wouldn't say I was anti-union, when I worked unionized jobs
(construction, teaching, civil service) a long time ago -- it was like working
for two bosses.  If you disagreed with the union you had no recourse and were
likely to experience "problems" if you did.  And you really don't want to live
through a strike.  

kip

|Have any DBA's ever been sued for malpractice?

|I used to belong to a union. One day the union told us to go on strike,
|and we did.

|22 years later, we're still on strike. I'm sure we'll be going back to
|work any day now. Then I can quit this temporary IT career I've been
|working at for 22 years now.

|Unions suck, IMHO. Worst career move I ever made was joining a union.

|--Walt

|> -Original Message-
|> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
|> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:15 AM
|> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
|> Subject: Re: RE: Offshore protests
|>
|>
|> dba union could be considered a trust. doctors tried doing it
|> and because they are 'independent businesses' its not a union
|> its a trust. they did it to fight high mal-practice suits.
|>
|>
|> >
|> > From: "Orr, Steve" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
|> > Date: 2003/09/22 Mon PM 12:34:40 EDT
|> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
|> > Subject: RE: Offshore protests
|> >
|> > But do we have to beat up people who refuse to join...
|> > Or "make an offer they can't refuse."  ;-)
|> >
|> > -Original Message-
|> > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:00 AM
|> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
|> >
|> >
|> > Definitely steel workers. We are being left to sweat in dark and we
|> > frequently get burnt by fire.
|> >
|> > --
|> > Mladen Gogala
|> > Oracle DBA
|> >
|> >
|> >
|> > > -Original Message-
|> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
|> > > Behalf Of KENNETH JANUSZ
|> > > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:30 AM
|> > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
|> > > Subject: Re: Offshore protests
|> > >
|> > >
|> > > The labor unions would definitely be interested.  Teamsters,
|> > > Steel Workers, AFSME?
|> > >
|> > > Ken Janusz, CPIM
|> > >
|> > > - Original Message -
|> > > To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
|> > > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:09 AM
|> > >
|> > >
|> > > > We could make a splash by organizing a DBA union. I'm
|> sure that all
|> > > > heads
|> > > on
|> > > > the Capitol Hill
|> > > > would turn when both members show up with banners,
|> demanding better
|> > > > pay
|> > > for
|> > > > starved database
|> > > > administrators. What do you think, should we mandate 9i OCP for
|> > > > joining
|> > > the
|> > > > union? If we were
|> > > > in London, we could have a permanent beer table at the
|> > > White Heart pub
|> > > > (or is it the Sphere?). We might even encounter Harry Purvis and
|> > > > exchange the union stories.
|> > > >
|> > > > --
|> > > > Mladen Gogala
|> > > > Oracle DBA
|> > > >
|> > > >
|> > > >
|> > > > > -Original Message-
|> > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
|> > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
|> > > > > Of DENNIS WILLIAMS
|> > > > > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:45 AM
|> > > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
|> > > > > Subject: Offshore protests
|> > > > >
|> > > > >
|> > > > > Looks as if tech workers are learning the basics of
|> protesting.
|> > > > >
|> > >
|> http://informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=15000146
|> > > > >
|> > > > >
|> > > > > Dennis Williams
|> > > > > DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA
|> > > > > Lifetouch, Inc.
|> > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
|> > > > > --
|> > > > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
|> > > > > --
|> > > > > Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS
|> > > > >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
|> > > > >
|> > > > > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051
|> > > http://www.fatcity.com
|&

Re: Offshore protests

[Joe Testa]

under the goalpost right?

joe

Mladen Gogala wrote:

Jimmy Hoffa would probably agree with you, once they pull him out
from beneath Meadowlands.
--
Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA 



 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
Behalf Of Weaver, Walt
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 1:35 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: RE: RE: Offshore protests

Have any DBA's ever been sued for malpractice?

I used to belong to a union. One day the union told us to go 
on strike, and we did.

22 years later, we're still on strike. I'm sure we'll be 
going back to work any day now. Then I can quit this 
temporary IT career I've been working at for 22 years now.

Unions suck, IMHO. Worst career move I ever made was joining a union.

--Walt

   

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:15 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: Re: RE: Offshore protests
dba union could be considered a trust. doctors tried doing it
and because they are 'independent businesses' its not a union 
its a trust. they did it to fight high mal-practice suits. 

 

From: "Orr, Steve" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 2003/09/22 Mon PM 12:34:40 EDT
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: Offshore protests
But do we have to beat up people who refuse to join...
Or "make an offer they can't refuse."  ;-)
-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:00 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Definitely steel workers. We are being left to sweat in 
   

dark and we 
   

frequently get burnt by fire.

--
Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA


   

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
Behalf Of KENNETH JANUSZ
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:30 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: Re: Offshore protests

The labor unions would definitely be interested.  
 

Teamsters, Steel 
   

Workers, AFSME?

Ken Janusz, CPIM

- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" 
 

<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
   

Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:09 AM

 

We could make a splash by organizing a DBA union. I'm
   

sure that all
 

heads
   

on
 

the Capitol Hill
would turn when both members show up with banners,
   

demanding better
 

pay
   

for
 

starved database
administrators. What do you think, should we mandate 
   

9i OCP for 
   

joining
   

the
 

union? If we were
in London, we could have a permanent beer table at the
   

White Heart pub
 

(or is it the Sphere?). We might even encounter Harry 
   

Purvis and 
   

exchange the union stories.

--
Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA


   

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 

[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
 

Of DENNIS WILLIAMS
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:45 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: Offshore protests
Looks as if tech workers are learning the basics of
 

protesting.
 

http://informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=15000146
   

Dennis Williams
DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
--
Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS
 INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 
 

http://www.fatcity.com
 

San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web 
 

hosting services
 

--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
--
Author: Orr, Steve
 INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 
   

http://www.fatcity.com
   

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RE: RE: Offshore protests

[Brian Dunbar]

Weaver, Walt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] on Monday, September 22, 2003
12:35 PM said;


> I used to belong to a union. One day the union told us to go on strike,
> and we did.

> 22 years later, we're still on strike. I'm sure we'll be going back to
> work any day now. Then I can quit this temporary IT career I've been
> working at for 22 years now.

> Unions suck, IMHO. Worst career move I ever made was joining a union.

There is a downside to unions.  I read an article (Atlantic maybe) that
reported in some cases it was more profitable for the union membership to go
on strike and shut down the business - senior members got unemployment,
benefits from the state for being on strike, early retirement and etc.
Younger members lost their job.

On the upside, there is no doubt in my mind that any benefits you have at
your current job are the result of Unions and related groups agitating for
better working conditions lo' these many years ago.

On the gripping hand, the Federal Employees Union and Coffee Break society
(FDIC Branch) created some of the worst working conditions I've seen - for
the non-Union (contract) labor working alongside them.  Can't spend funds to
buy a guy lunch in recognition of his long service (five years!) because
he's non-union.  Contract employees have to have their office window closd
off with a partition wall because the Rules state contractors don't _get_
windows.  Etc.

~brian
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RE: RE: Offshore protests

[Thater, William]

Mladen Gogala  scribbled on the wall in glitter crayon:

> A trust? That is only marginally better then the "axis of evil". Do we
> risk getting bombed if we establish a "trust"?

maybe, but remember some of us can bomb back.;-)

--
Bill "Shrek" Thater ORACLE DBA  
"I'm going to work my ticket if I can..." -- Gilwell song
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

A knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate, of the
manifestations of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty, which
are only accessible to our reason in their most elementary forms [ ] it is
this knowledge and this emotion that constitute the truly religious
attitude; in this sense, and in this alone, I am a deeply religious man. -
Albert Einstein

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RE: RE: Offshore protests

[Mladen Gogala]

Jimmy Hoffa would probably agree with you, once they pull him out
from beneath Meadowlands.

--
Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA 



> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
> Behalf Of Weaver, Walt
> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 1:35 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: RE: RE: Offshore protests
> 
> 
> Have any DBA's ever been sued for malpractice?
> 
> I used to belong to a union. One day the union told us to go 
> on strike, and we did.
> 
> 22 years later, we're still on strike. I'm sure we'll be 
> going back to work any day now. Then I can quit this 
> temporary IT career I've been working at for 22 years now.
> 
> Unions suck, IMHO. Worst career move I ever made was joining a union.
> 
> --Walt
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:15 AM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > Subject: Re: RE: Offshore protests
> > 
> > 
> > dba union could be considered a trust. doctors tried doing it
> > and because they are 'independent businesses' its not a union 
> > its a trust. they did it to fight high mal-practice suits. 
> > 
> > 
> > > 
> > > From: "Orr, Steve" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Date: 2003/09/22 Mon PM 12:34:40 EDT
> > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Subject: RE: Offshore protests
> > > 
> > > But do we have to beat up people who refuse to join...
> > > Or "make an offer they can't refuse."  ;-)
> > > 
> > > -Original Message-
> > > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:00 AM
> > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Definitely steel workers. We are being left to sweat in 
> dark and we 
> > > frequently get burnt by fire.
> > > 
> > > --
> > > Mladen Gogala
> > > Oracle DBA
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
> > > > Behalf Of KENNETH JANUSZ
> > > > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:30 AM
> > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > > Subject: Re: Offshore protests
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > The labor unions would definitely be interested.  
> Teamsters, Steel 
> > > > Workers, AFSME?
> > > > 
> > > > Ken Janusz, CPIM
> > > > 
> > > > - Original Message -
> > > > To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:09 AM
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > > We could make a splash by organizing a DBA union. I'm
> > sure that all
> > > > > heads
> > > > on
> > > > > the Capitol Hill
> > > > > would turn when both members show up with banners,
> > demanding better
> > > > > pay
> > > > for
> > > > > starved database
> > > > > administrators. What do you think, should we mandate 
> 9i OCP for 
> > > > > joining
> > > > the
> > > > > union? If we were
> > > > > in London, we could have a permanent beer table at the
> > > > White Heart pub
> > > > > (or is it the Sphere?). We might even encounter Harry 
> Purvis and 
> > > > > exchange the union stories.
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Mladen Gogala
> > > > > Oracle DBA
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > -Original Message-
> > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> > > > > > Of DENNIS WILLIAMS
> > > > > > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:45 AM
> > > > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > > > > Subject: Offshore protests
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Looks as if tech workers are learning the basics of
> > protesting.
> > > > > > 
> > > > 
> > 
> http://informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=15000146
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > &

Re: Offshore protests

[Joe Testa]

Yea they do, i was forced to be part of a union when employed by the 
State of OH EPA.  There were your typical state employees(lazy and not 
doing much, didnt want to learn anything new, etc) and us DBAs working 
like nuts and capped on what we could make(back in those days, '94-96, 
it was like 55K and we had to pay union dues).

Damn dumbest thing i've ever seen, union white-collar workers.

joe

Weaver, Walt wrote:

Have any DBA's ever been sued for malpractice?

I used to belong to a union. One day the union told us to go on strike,
and we did.
22 years later, we're still on strike. I'm sure we'll be going back to
work any day now. Then I can quit this temporary IT career I've been
working at for 22 years now.
Unions suck, IMHO. Worst career move I ever made was joining a union.

--Walt

 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:15 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: Re: RE: Offshore protests

dba union could be considered a trust. doctors tried doing it 
and because they are 'independent businesses' its not a union 
its a trust. they did it to fight high mal-practice suits. 

   

From: "Orr, Steve" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 2003/09/22 Mon PM 12:34:40 EDT
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: Offshore protests
But do we have to beat up people who refuse to join... 
Or "make an offer they can't refuse."  ;-)

-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:00 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Definitely steel workers. We are being left to sweat in dark and we
frequently get burnt by fire. 

--
Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA 



 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of KENNETH JANUSZ
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:30 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: Re: Offshore protests
The labor unions would definitely be interested.  Teamsters,
Steel Workers, AFSME?
Ken Janusz, CPIM

- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:09 AM
   

We could make a splash by organizing a DBA union. I'm 
 

sure that all
   

heads
 

on
   

the Capitol Hill
would turn when both members show up with banners, 
 

demanding better
   

pay
 

for
   

starved database
administrators. What do you think, should we mandate 9i OCP for
joining
 

the
   

union? If we were
in London, we could have a permanent beer table at the
 

White Heart pub
   

(or is it the Sphere?). We might even encounter Harry Purvis and
exchange the union stories.
--
Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA


 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   

[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
   

Of DENNIS WILLIAMS
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:45 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: Offshore protests
Looks as if tech workers are learning the basics of 
   

protesting.
   

http://informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=15000146
   

Dennis Williams
DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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--
Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS
 INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 
   

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hosting services
   

--
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Author: Orr, Steve
 INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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RE: RE: Offshore protests

[Mladen Gogala]

A trust? That is only marginally better then the "axis of evil". Do we
risk getting bombed if we establish a "trust"? 

--
Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA 



> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 1:15 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: Re: RE: Offshore protests
> 
> 
> dba union could be considered a trust. doctors tried doing it 
> and because they are 'independent businesses' its not a union 
> its a trust. they did it to fight high mal-practice suits. 
> 
> 
> > 
> > From: "Orr, Steve" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Date: 2003/09/22 Mon PM 12:34:40 EDT
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Subject: RE: Offshore protests
> > 
> > But do we have to beat up people who refuse to join...
> > Or "make an offer they can't refuse."  ;-)
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:00 AM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > 
> > 
> > Definitely steel workers. We are being left to sweat in dark and we 
> > frequently get burnt by fire.
> > 
> > --
> > Mladen Gogala
> > Oracle DBA
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf 
> > > Of KENNETH JANUSZ
> > > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:30 AM
> > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > Subject: Re: Offshore protests
> > > 
> > > 
> > > The labor unions would definitely be interested.  
> Teamsters, Steel 
> > > Workers, AFSME?
> > > 
> > > Ken Janusz, CPIM
> > > 
> > > - Original Message -
> > > To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:09 AM
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > We could make a splash by organizing a DBA union. I'm sure that 
> > > > all heads
> > > on
> > > > the Capitol Hill
> > > > would turn when both members show up with banners, demanding 
> > > > better pay
> > > for
> > > > starved database
> > > > administrators. What do you think, should we mandate 9i OCP for 
> > > > joining
> > > the
> > > > union? If we were
> > > > in London, we could have a permanent beer table at the
> > > White Heart pub
> > > > (or is it the Sphere?). We might even encounter Harry 
> Purvis and 
> > > > exchange the union stories.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Mladen Gogala
> > > > Oracle DBA
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > -Original Message-
> > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> > > > > Of DENNIS WILLIAMS
> > > > > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:45 AM
> > > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > > > Subject: Offshore protests
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Looks as if tech workers are learning the basics of 
> protesting.
> > > > > 
> > > 
> http://informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=1500014
> > > 6
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Dennis Williams
> > > > > DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA
> > > > > Lifetouch, Inc.
> > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > > --
> > > > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> > > > > --
> > > > > Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS
> > > > >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > >
> > > > > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 
> > > http://www.fatcity.com
> > > > > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web 
> > > hosting services
> > --
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> > -- 
> > Author: Orr, Steve
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 
> > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web 
> hosting services
> > 
> -
> > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
&

RE: RE: Offshore protests

[Weaver, Walt]

Have any DBA's ever been sued for malpractice?

I used to belong to a union. One day the union told us to go on strike,
and we did.

22 years later, we're still on strike. I'm sure we'll be going back to
work any day now. Then I can quit this temporary IT career I've been
working at for 22 years now.

Unions suck, IMHO. Worst career move I ever made was joining a union.

--Walt

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:15 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: Re: RE: Offshore protests
> 
> 
> dba union could be considered a trust. doctors tried doing it 
> and because they are 'independent businesses' its not a union 
> its a trust. they did it to fight high mal-practice suits. 
> 
> 
> > 
> > From: "Orr, Steve" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Date: 2003/09/22 Mon PM 12:34:40 EDT
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Subject: RE: Offshore protests
> > 
> > But do we have to beat up people who refuse to join... 
> > Or "make an offer they can't refuse."  ;-)
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:00 AM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > 
> > 
> > Definitely steel workers. We are being left to sweat in dark and we
> > frequently get burnt by fire. 
> > 
> > --
> > Mladen Gogala
> > Oracle DBA 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > > Behalf Of KENNETH JANUSZ
> > > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:30 AM
> > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > Subject: Re: Offshore protests
> > > 
> > > 
> > > The labor unions would definitely be interested.  Teamsters,
> > > Steel Workers, AFSME?
> > > 
> > > Ken Janusz, CPIM
> > > 
> > > - Original Message -
> > > To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:09 AM
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > We could make a splash by organizing a DBA union. I'm 
> sure that all
> > > > heads
> > > on
> > > > the Capitol Hill
> > > > would turn when both members show up with banners, 
> demanding better
> > > > pay
> > > for
> > > > starved database
> > > > administrators. What do you think, should we mandate 9i OCP for
> > > > joining
> > > the
> > > > union? If we were
> > > > in London, we could have a permanent beer table at the
> > > White Heart pub
> > > > (or is it the Sphere?). We might even encounter Harry Purvis and
> > > > exchange the union stories.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Mladen Gogala
> > > > Oracle DBA
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > -Original Message-
> > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> > > > > Of DENNIS WILLIAMS
> > > > > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:45 AM
> > > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > > > Subject: Offshore protests
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Looks as if tech workers are learning the basics of 
> protesting.
> > > > > 
> > > 
> http://informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=15000146
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Dennis Williams
> > > > > DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA
> > > > > Lifetouch, Inc.
> > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > > --
> > > > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> > > > > --
> > > > > Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS
> > > > >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > >
> > > > > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 
> > > http://www.fatcity.com
> > > > > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web 
> > > hosting services
> > -- 
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> > -- 
> > Author: Orr, Steve
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 
> > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web 
> host

Re: RE: Offshore protests

[rgaffuri]

dba union could be considered a trust. doctors tried doing it and because they are 
'independent businesses' its not a union its a trust. they did it to fight high 
mal-practice suits. 


> 
> From: "Orr, Steve" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2003/09/22 Mon PM 12:34:40 EDT
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: RE: Offshore protests
> 
> But do we have to beat up people who refuse to join... 
> Or "make an offer they can't refuse."  ;-)
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:00 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> Definitely steel workers. We are being left to sweat in dark and we
> frequently get burnt by fire. 
> 
> --
> Mladen Gogala
> Oracle DBA 
> 
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of KENNETH JANUSZ
> > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:30 AM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > Subject: Re: Offshore protests
> > 
> > 
> > The labor unions would definitely be interested.  Teamsters,
> > Steel Workers, AFSME?
> > 
> > Ken Janusz, CPIM
> > 
> > - Original Message -
> > To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:09 AM
> > 
> > 
> > > We could make a splash by organizing a DBA union. I'm sure that all
> > > heads
> > on
> > > the Capitol Hill
> > > would turn when both members show up with banners, demanding better
> > > pay
> > for
> > > starved database
> > > administrators. What do you think, should we mandate 9i OCP for
> > > joining
> > the
> > > union? If we were
> > > in London, we could have a permanent beer table at the
> > White Heart pub
> > > (or is it the Sphere?). We might even encounter Harry Purvis and
> > > exchange the union stories.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Mladen Gogala
> > > Oracle DBA
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> > > > Of DENNIS WILLIAMS
> > > > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:45 AM
> > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > > Subject: Offshore protests
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Looks as if tech workers are learning the basics of protesting.
> > > > 
> > http://informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=15000146
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Dennis Williams
> > > > DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA
> > > > Lifetouch, Inc.
> > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > --
> > > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> > > > --
> > > > Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS
> > > >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >
> > > > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 
> > http://www.fatcity.com
> > > > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web 
> > hosting services
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: Orr, Steve
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> -
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> 

-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
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RE: Offshore protests

[Mladen Gogala]

No problem with beating people up. Violence is, contrary to Chris Lawson's
book,
an integral part of DBA job. BTW, Chris Lawsons' "Art and Science of Tuning
Oracle" 
reads like Dale Carnegie for database administrators. Basically, we should
give up
our cynical attitude, become indistinguishable from the HR/finance drones
and get
rid of our geekish culture. Really terrifying stuff.

--
Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA 



> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
> Behalf Of Orr, Steve
> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 12:35 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: RE: Offshore protests
> 
> 
> But do we have to beat up people who refuse to join... 
> Or "make an offer they can't refuse."  ;-)
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:00 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> Definitely steel workers. We are being left to sweat in dark 
> and we frequently get burnt by fire. 
> 
> --
> Mladen Gogala
> Oracle DBA 
> 
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> On Behalf 
> > Of KENNETH JANUSZ
> > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:30 AM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > Subject: Re: Offshore protests
> > 
> > 
> > The labor unions would definitely be interested.  Teamsters, Steel 
> > Workers, AFSME?
> > 
> > Ken Janusz, CPIM
> > 
> > - Original Message -
> > To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:09 AM
> > 
> > 
> > > We could make a splash by organizing a DBA union. I'm 
> sure that all 
> > > heads
> > on
> > > the Capitol Hill
> > > would turn when both members show up with banners, 
> demanding better 
> > > pay
> > for
> > > starved database
> > > administrators. What do you think, should we mandate 9i OCP for 
> > > joining
> > the
> > > union? If we were
> > > in London, we could have a permanent beer table at the
> > White Heart pub
> > > (or is it the Sphere?). We might even encounter Harry Purvis and 
> > > exchange the union stories.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Mladen Gogala
> > > Oracle DBA
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> > > > Of DENNIS WILLIAMS
> > > > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:45 AM
> > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > > Subject: Offshore protests
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Looks as if tech workers are learning the basics of protesting.
> > > > 
> > 
> http://informationweek.com/story/showArticle.j> html?articleID=15000146
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Dennis Williams
> > > > DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA
> > > > Lifetouch, Inc.
> > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > --
> > > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> > > > --
> > > > Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS
> > > >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >
> > > > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 
> > http://www.fatcity.com
> > > > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web 
> > hosting services
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: Orr, Steve
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> -
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') 
> and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB 
> ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed 
> from).  You may also send the HELP command for other 
> information (like subscribing).
> 




Note:
This message is for the named person's use only.  It may contain confidential, 
proprietary or legally privileged information.  No confidentiality or privilege is 
waived or lost by any mistransmission.  If you receive this message in error, please 
immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies 
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Re: Offshore protests

[KENNETH JANUSZ]

You'll have to check with Tony Soprano.


- Original Message - 
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:34 AM


> But do we have to beat up people who refuse to join... 
> Or "make an offer they can't refuse."  ;-)
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:00 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> Definitely steel workers. We are being left to sweat in dark and we
> frequently get burnt by fire. 
> 
> --
> Mladen Gogala
> Oracle DBA 
> 
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of KENNETH JANUSZ
> > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:30 AM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > Subject: Re: Offshore protests
> > 
> > 
> > The labor unions would definitely be interested.  Teamsters,
> > Steel Workers, AFSME?
> > 
> > Ken Janusz, CPIM
> > 
> > - Original Message -
> > To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:09 AM
> > 
> > 
> > > We could make a splash by organizing a DBA union. I'm sure that all
> > > heads
> > on
> > > the Capitol Hill
> > > would turn when both members show up with banners, demanding better
> > > pay
> > for
> > > starved database
> > > administrators. What do you think, should we mandate 9i OCP for
> > > joining
> > the
> > > union? If we were
> > > in London, we could have a permanent beer table at the
> > White Heart pub
> > > (or is it the Sphere?). We might even encounter Harry Purvis and
> > > exchange the union stories.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Mladen Gogala
> > > Oracle DBA
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> > > > Of DENNIS WILLIAMS
> > > > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:45 AM
> > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > > Subject: Offshore protests
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Looks as if tech workers are learning the basics of protesting.
> > > > 
> > http://informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=15000146
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Dennis Williams
> > > > DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA
> > > > Lifetouch, Inc.
> > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > --
> > > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> > > > --
> > > > Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS
> > > >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >
> > > > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 
> > http://www.fatcity.com
> > > > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web 
> > hosting services
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: Orr, Steve
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> -
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: KENNETH JANUSZ
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
-
To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

RE: Offshore protests

[Orr, Steve]

But do we have to beat up people who refuse to join... 
Or "make an offer they can't refuse."  ;-)

-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:00 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Definitely steel workers. We are being left to sweat in dark and we
frequently get burnt by fire. 

--
Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA 



> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of KENNETH JANUSZ
> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:30 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: Re: Offshore protests
> 
> 
> The labor unions would definitely be interested.  Teamsters,
> Steel Workers, AFSME?
> 
> Ken Janusz, CPIM
> 
> - Original Message -
> To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:09 AM
> 
> 
> > We could make a splash by organizing a DBA union. I'm sure that all
> > heads
> on
> > the Capitol Hill
> > would turn when both members show up with banners, demanding better
> > pay
> for
> > starved database
> > administrators. What do you think, should we mandate 9i OCP for
> > joining
> the
> > union? If we were
> > in London, we could have a permanent beer table at the
> White Heart pub
> > (or is it the Sphere?). We might even encounter Harry Purvis and
> > exchange the union stories.
> >
> > --
> > Mladen Gogala
> > Oracle DBA
> >
> >
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> > > Of DENNIS WILLIAMS
> > > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:45 AM
> > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > Subject: Offshore protests
> > >
> > >
> > > Looks as if tech workers are learning the basics of protesting.
> > > 
> http://informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=15000146
> > >
> > >
> > > Dennis Williams
> > > DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA
> > > Lifetouch, Inc.
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > --
> > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> > > --
> > > Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS
> > >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 
> http://www.fatcity.com
> > > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web 
> hosting services
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: Orr, Steve
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
-
To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

RE: Offshore protests

[Mladen Gogala]

Definitely steel workers. We are being left to sweat in dark and we
frequently
get burnt by fire. 

--
Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA 



> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
> Behalf Of KENNETH JANUSZ
> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:30 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: Re: Offshore protests
> 
> 
> The labor unions would definitely be interested.  Teamsters, 
> Steel Workers, AFSME?
> 
> Ken Janusz, CPIM
> 
> - Original Message -
> To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:09 AM
> 
> 
> > We could make a splash by organizing a DBA union. I'm sure that all 
> > heads
> on
> > the Capitol Hill
> > would turn when both members show up with banners, demanding better 
> > pay
> for
> > starved database
> > administrators. What do you think, should we mandate 9i OCP for 
> > joining
> the
> > union? If we were
> > in London, we could have a permanent beer table at the 
> White Heart pub 
> > (or is it the Sphere?). We might even encounter Harry Purvis and 
> > exchange the union stories.
> >
> > --
> > Mladen Gogala
> > Oracle DBA
> >
> >
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf 
> > > Of DENNIS WILLIAMS
> > > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:45 AM
> > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > Subject: Offshore protests
> > >
> > >
> > > Looks as if tech workers are learning the basics of protesting.
> > > 
> http://informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=15000146
> > >
> > >
> > > Dennis Williams
> > > DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA
> > > Lifetouch, Inc.
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > --
> > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> > > --
> > > Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS
> > >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 
> http://www.fatcity.com
> > > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web 
> hosting services
> > > 
> -
> > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru')
> > > and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB
> > > ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed
> > > from).  You may also send the HELP command for other
> > > information (like subscribing).
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Note:
> > This message is for the named person's use only.  It may contain
> confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information.  No
> confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any 
> mistransmission.  If
> you receive this message in error, please immediately delete 
> it and all
> copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it 
> and notify the
> sender.  You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, 
> distribute,
> print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended
> recipient. Wang Trading LLC and any of its subsidiaries each 
> reserve the
> right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks.
> > Any views expressed in this message are those of the 
> individual sender,
> except where the message states otherwise and the sender is 
> authorized to
> state them to be the views of any such entity.
> >
> > --
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> > --
> > Author: Mladen Gogala
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web 
> hosting services
> > 
> -
> > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> 
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: KENNETH JANUSZ
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services  

Re: Offshore protests

[KENNETH JANUSZ]

The labor unions would definitely be interested.  Teamsters, Steel Workers,
AFSME?

Ken Janusz, CPIM

- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:09 AM


> We could make a splash by organizing a DBA union. I'm sure that all heads
on
> the Capitol Hill
> would turn when both members show up with banners, demanding better pay
for
> starved database
> administrators. What do you think, should we mandate 9i OCP for joining
the
> union? If we were
> in London, we could have a permanent beer table at the White Heart pub (or
> is it the Sphere?).
> We might even encounter Harry Purvis and exchange the union stories.
>
> --
> Mladen Gogala
> Oracle DBA
>
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of DENNIS WILLIAMS
> > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:45 AM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > Subject: Offshore protests
> >
> >
> > Looks as if tech workers are learning the basics of
> > protesting.
> > http://informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=15000146
> >
> >
> > Dennis Williams
> > DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA
> > Lifetouch, Inc.
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > --
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> > --
> > Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> > -
> > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru')
> > and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB
> > ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed
> > from).  You may also send the HELP command for other
> > information (like subscribing).
> >
>
>
>
>
> Note:
> This message is for the named person's use only.  It may contain
confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information.  No
confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission.  If
you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all
copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the
sender.  You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute,
print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended
recipient. Wang Trading LLC and any of its subsidiaries each reserve the
right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks.
> Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender,
except where the message states otherwise and the sender is authorized to
state them to be the views of any such entity.
>
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> --
> Author: Mladen Gogala
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> -
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: KENNETH JANUSZ
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
-
To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

RE: Offshore protests

[Mladen Gogala]

We could make a splash by organizing a DBA union. I'm sure that all heads on
the Capitol Hill 
would turn when both members show up with banners, demanding better pay for
starved database 
administrators. What do you think, should we mandate 9i OCP for joining the
union? If we were
in London, we could have a permanent beer table at the White Heart pub (or
is it the Sphere?).
We might even encounter Harry Purvis and exchange the union stories.

--
Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA 



> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
> Behalf Of DENNIS WILLIAMS
> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:45 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: Offshore protests
> 
> 
> Looks as if tech workers are learning the basics of 
> protesting. 
> http://informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=15000146
> 
> 
> Dennis Williams
> DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA
> Lifetouch, Inc.
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> -
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') 
> and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB 
> ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed 
> from).  You may also send the HELP command for other 
> information (like subscribing).
> 




Note:
This message is for the named person's use only.  It may contain confidential, 
proprietary or legally privileged information.  No confidentiality or privilege is 
waived or lost by any mistransmission.  If you receive this message in error, please 
immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies 
of it and notify the sender.  You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, 
distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended 
recipient. Wang Trading LLC and any of its subsidiaries each reserve the right to 
monitor all e-mail communications through its networks.
Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where 
the message states otherwise and the sender is authorized to state them to be the 
views of any such entity.

-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: Mladen Gogala
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
-
To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).