Re: [Origami] Ethical question for creators/authors
On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 5:55 PM, Rob Hudson caveat...@gmail.com wrote: This is where I get a little confused over concepts. Let's say you wrote a book with diagrams for 50 models, and retained the ownership of the designs. Could you then sell the diagrams for the 50 models to someone outside of the collection of the book? Or a subset? It all depends on the precise language of the contract the author has made with the publisher. Retained the rights is not actually specific enough to answer the question. (*What* rights were retained? Digital? Print? The work as a whole? Etc., etc.) Absent any other agreements, under (US) law, authors are given lots control over anything that involves making copies of their creative work. (Hence the copy in copyright. See the endless copyright discussions of the past here on the list for more details than anyone wants.) But when they enter into agreements with someone (like a publisher) which change who gets to have that control, then what matters is the language of the contract, and that could be almost anything. (Subject, of course, to the limitations of contract law - you can't make people do illegal things in contracts, etc.) Though I have not published any books of my own, I have seen the language of a number of actual (origami book) publishing contracts, and the reassignment of rights they cover can be extensive - publishers want very much to be able to use the material they have published in as many ways as possible, and sometimes require that their rights to it be exclusive. Meaning that often the author cannot, according to their publishing contact, redistribute any of the material in any other form. So to me, the ethics question for the author in Rob's case above is are you going to live up to your contract? (It's also a legal question, since the author could be sued for failing to honor the contract.) In the old days, if you didn't like the terms of a publishing contract, you were pretty much stuck for options, and it was agree-or-don't-get-published; these days, there are lots of other choices (albeit without many of the advantages Robert talked about in his post) which can give you lots more flexibility. It's a tradeoff. And I guess fundamentally, to me, the legal right (copyright) is also the ethical thing, here: we should give an author control over how their stuff gets used/consumed, including it not getting distributed at all, and honor their wishes. I don't see what right *I* have to *your* creative output; it's the result of your investment of time and energy, and is *yours*. If the end result is of value to me, then you can ask for compensation for giving me access to it, if you want to, and you should get to say how it will be distributed. If you, as author, choose to publish the work through traditional channels, then I, as consumer, should consume it that way. Anything else is, at the least, disrespectful. And if it's not available somewhere... well, it's a bummer, but it's just not available. But I want it! seems to be a perfectly valid modern justification for theft. Seriously, is the only reason everyone doesn't steal books from bookstores that they might get caught? Why is it ok to take something in digital form, but not from the bookstore? In practice, I find origami authors unbelievably generous and lenient - they give away diagrams online, they donate their diagrams to origami society publications, they allow consumers to publish photos of folded pieces in blogs and flickr and the like (which they could, if they wanted to be picky, complain about), they grant approval for pieces to be taught in a variety of venues... and mostly all they want for all those uses is credit! I certainly don't begrudge them also choosing how their stuff gets distributed, nor what they ask for compensation. I may not feel that something is worth what the author wishes to charge, of course, but that's *my* right, to exercise. And if something you want is unavailable to you, well... there's an awful lot of origami out there - you might find something else for free, you could support another author who is distributing their work in a way that you can get it, or you could design it yourself... Surely there's a pirated version of Origami Design Secrets out there to get your started for free. :P Anne
Re: [Origami] Ethical question for creators/authors
Let's not be naive in the first place and think that someone who obtain a bootlegged copy really intends to pay the author or anybody for that matter! It happens, maybe not all the time, but aside from someone growing a conscience or coming to understand things, I can see a few cases where someone with a bootleg might be compelled to pay up. 1. Item isn't available for sale in their area. 2. Shipping costs/trade exclusions prevent physical media from being able to be sent. Yes, we do have folks from Iran and other countries that routinely have regime madness and US Sanctions imposed. 3. Item may be out of print. I see no reason why one shouldn't contact the author if acquiring or having access to an electronic copy. Fair use and copyright law are fuzzy on this. I can see cases and instances listed above being legit. Hypothetically, if I found a scanned copy of an out-of-print Randlett book, I'd have no issue contacting the author about paying for it. The author would actually make out better in this case, since the secondhand/out of print market isn't part of the author's revenue stream. Granted, the absolutely proper way to do this would be to contact the creator, the estate, the publisher, ava anyone in the ownership and contract chain, and typically try to arrange a new printing. That can work successfully. I'm wondering what other published origami authors think in these cases. Also, what conscientious consumers consider ethical and okay. -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: [Origami] Ethical question for creators/authors
Am 13.11.2013 01:36, schrieb Rob Hudson: [...] For example - let's say Joe gets a hold of a PDF of Gjerde's book, and decides to do the right thing. He can either (1) purchase the book through an official market or venue, or (2) send Gjerde a payment directly for the full amount. [...] Thoughts? We usually don't know how much money a publisher actually makes from a book release. Maybe they hired people to review the text and do the layout. maybe they paid the author a bunch of money upfront so he/she can afford to write the book. maybe they did a lot of promotion for the book. in this case it would be fair for the publisher to clam a big chunk of the revenue. But from what I've heard that is not even close to reality. publishers are mostly greedy dinosaurs that pay the author very little in exchange for printing the book and using their Distribution network. Just like with music, distribution gets cheaper every day. Thus, the deal becoming less and less fair. The only reason to release a book with an old school publisher is prestige and comfort. A self released-book is looked upon as less good and not so credible as a book from a publisher. This is changing right now, but it's still a reason. Comfort in the case that the publisher takes care of most of the things and you just need to write. Coming back to your thought-experiment: I think it's ethical but unlawful. a solution to this situation could be to ask the author just for the diagrams, and pay him or her for that. (usually authors keep the rights on their designs) in the long run I hope that the online-shops of the origami-societies prosper and will be platforms that just take a little fee for the hosting an money transaction. This will rule the publishers out. And it will avoid your dillema. you can just buy the book at a online-shop or pay the author directly. both will be legal because in my vision the shops don't own the rights on the books, but the author does. happy folding, Tavin
Re: [Origami] Ethical question for creators/authors
Robert Lang writes: I'd say that if you as author made an agreement with your publisher that you would sell your book and divvy the funds in the ways spelled out in your contract, and then you went and sold it some other way, that's not very ethical. YEMV. This is where I get a little confused over concepts. Let's say you wrote a book with diagrams for 50 models, and retained the ownership of the designs. Could you then sell the diagrams for the 50 models to someone outside of the collection of the book? Or a subset? When I say could, I'm interested mostly about ethics; values and practices in our small community are more interesting to me than laws, particularly from the perspective of creators and publishers.
[Origami] Ethical question for creators/authors
Authors/Creators: Let's pretend someone got a hold of a bootlegged, unlicensed ebook of one of your books (or diagram collections). Assuming the item is available for sale (but maybe not in this format), would it be acceptable to pay the author directly for the copy, if that venue of communication were available? For example - let's say Joe gets a hold of a PDF of Gjerde's book, and decides to do the right thing. He can either (1) purchase the book through an official market or venue, or (2) send Gjerde a payment directly for the full amount. In this instance, Gjerde is going to get the full purchase price of the book, whereas otherwise he's going to get whatever he and his publisher have agreed upon. The whole argument of supporting the authors seems to lean in a compelling way towards this scenario. Thoughts?
