Re: orion-list What Happened to the Watchers
moer likely the myth's explanation has to do with the term "nefilim" and their description in Genesis. more exegesis than history. where do you find history coded in myth in these literatures? Herb Basser > > Boccaccini, on page 142 of BEYOND THE ESSENE HYPOTHESIS > mentions a text that I had not encountered before: > > Pages 141-142: > "In the Testaments the emphasis on human responsibility > reaches a degree of intensity that was unknown in the previous > Enochic tradition. The document signals an epochal change in the > interpretation of the sin of the Watchers. Human beings are not > mere victims of the angelic sin but jointly responsible. The > blame shifts from angels to women. "They [women] charmed the > Watchers, who were before the flood. As they continued looking > at the women, they were filled with desire ... for them. They > they were transformed into human males... Since the women's > minds were filled with desire for these apparitions, they > gave birth to giants" (Testament of Reuben 5:6-7)." > > "The psychologization of the myth of the fallen angels denies > the equation of impurity and evil that Jubiliees had established > and the Qumran sectarians turned into one of the foundations > of the doctrine of evil." > > [END OF CLIPS] > > So here we have the chain of events. The fallen angels > become human males. They have giants as children. The > giants are killed, but the evil spirits of the fallen > angels live on as immortal souls. > > In these discussion of the Watchers, I cannot help but > wonder how any ancient student of these ancient texts could > have avoided linking the "wicked" Watchers with the > "wickedness" of the Samaritans/Keepers/Watchers. The > New Testament appears to be a snapshot of Jewish bias against > "sinners" people who are not gentile, but live north > of Judah. Couldn't this be a part of Jewish bias against > Samaritans? Centurions don't seem to excite nearly the > same level of wrath that these "sinners" appear to. > > Boccaccini, at the front of the book, depicts a flow chart > of the evolution of Jewish sectarianism on "FIGURE 2. A MAP OF > MIDDLE JUDAISMS". On this chart, he shows Samaritanism as a > 4th century offshoot of Zadokite Judaism, while Enochic > Judaism is depicted emerging PARALLEL to Zadokite thought, > and leading directly into Essene thought. > > In the book it is sometimes suggested that Enochian thought > had its source the obscure period in Persia, prior to the return. > And yet, the only reference in the Old Testament that connects > to a dissident form of priesthood opposed to the Zadokite views > AND yet is still a part of the Jersusalem cultus is the reference > by Ezekiel to the priestly faction that prays to the sun with > its back to the Temple. > > This description precedes the deportation to Babylon, for the > temple is still standing. Who could this priestly faction > have been? I have suggested the Rechabites, since they were > in Jerusalem before its destruction. Suda ALSO suggests the > Rechabites, for reasons unknown. And in a completely independent > thread, we see congruence between the Syrian cult of Shai al' Qaum > and the Nabataean practices of avoiding wine, living in houses, > and avoiding agriculture. > > In the Books of the Maccabees we find a close affinity between > the Maccabean forces and the Nabateans. In Josephus we find Banus > who still avoids agriculture. And in Deuteronomy we find an unsually > kind view of Edomites, with other Old Testament references to the > Edomites also having their promised covenants with Yahweh. > > While I can't pretend to have all the answers proved, I think > there is more than enough here to suggest further investigation. > > George Brooks > Tampa, FL > For private reply, e-mail to Herbert Basser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To unsubscribe from Orion, e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: "unsubscribe Orion." Archives are on the Orion Web site, http://orion.mscc.huji.ac.il. (PLEASE REMOVE THIS TRAILOR BEFORE REPLYING TO THE MESSAGE)
Re: orion-list Enochian Sects: Samaritan vs. Judah-ite
Well Geoff, that's an interest list of questions. You write: "why one has to have an anti-wine god that is not the > God of Israel in order to explain the Rechabite abstention from > alcoholJust suppose a group (a 'tribe'say) of Israelites had a bad experience that caused a large number of them to be wiped-out. Could such an experience affect their view of God and what his commands are for them? Do people's experiences form their views > of their god, at least to some extent?" I'm not quite sure how "determined" you are to pursue this method of analysis in the scanty world of Palestinian archaeology. You could use this same approach to virtually any consensus view. But perhaps you choose this approach simply because you don't know that much yet about the Rechabites. The injunction against wine, living in houses and agriculture is EXACTLY the same set of taboos that the Aramaean Nabataeans had according to Diodorus (he was reporting a text usually placed around the 300's BC). While Diodorus doesn't say who first commanded the taboo injunctions, Jeremiah's text tells us that the Rechabites got their injunctions from Jonadab, "Bar Rekab". Interestingly, Sam'al, a neo-hittite Aramaean state in the S.E. corner of Anatolia, had at least one king named "Bar Rekab", and they had a deity called Rekab-El. This deity was a "charioteer" deity, as in "chariot rider of storms". And while we don't have the "ID" of a Jonadab in Sam'alian texts, the circle of evidence does seem rather tight around the idea that somehow a person or deity Rekab is related to the region that the Rechabites hailed from, and/or that Shai al' Qaum is related to the deity Rekab. What's especially interesting, I think, is that the O.T. also puts the "legendary" Hadad (the same name as the Aramaean "rider of storms" deity) right in the middle of Edom... which is the homeland of the very same wine-avoiding Nabataeans. So I guess, in view of all these overlapping factors, what evidence do you have that the Syrian Rechabites were influenced by some OTHER deity other than the only one we know of that was opposed to wine consumption or that they spontaneously came up with the same rule system that the Nabataeans did? I look forward to your comments. Best wishes, George For private reply, e-mail to George Brooks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To unsubscribe from Orion, e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: "unsubscribe Orion." Archives are on the Orion Web site, http://orion.mscc.huji.ac.il. (PLEASE REMOVE THIS TRAILOR BEFORE REPLYING TO THE MESSAGE)
RE: orion-list Enochian Sects: Samaritan vs. Judah-ite
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of George Brooks Sent: 19 August 2002 03:27 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: orion-list Enochian Sects: Samaritan vs. Judah-ite George wrote in response to my previous qestions: The deity that is archaeologically attested to the Rechabite lifestyle is the Aramaean Shai al' Qaum, who is traditionally translated as "Companion/Protector of the Caravan". But it could also be a pun on the term "Qaum", and mean BOTH "Caravan" and "stone". In anycase, there seems to be close congruence between the Rechabites and the peoples that were devoted to Shai al Qaum.While the Hellenized version of this anti-wine God would eventually become Lycurgus, there seems to be strong evidence (per Diodorus's famous texts about Nabataeans), that devotees of Shai settled in the land of Edom and were known as Nabataeans. And LONG before there was a people we would call Essenes, the Nabataeans themselves had undergone a transition from "tent dwelling mavericks" to agriculturally supported people living in urbanized centers. *** George, it puzzles me why one has to have an anti-wine god that is not the God of Israel in order to explain the Rechabite abstention from alcohol. What I say next is simplistic (as usual). Just suppose a group (a 'tribe' say) of Israelites had a bad experience that caused a large number of them to be wiped-out. Could such an experience affect their view of God and what his commands are for them? Do people's experiences form their views of their god, at least to some extent. I can well imagine that if the tribe was having a party one day and alot of them were the worse for wear when they were attacked and defeated, that such an experience would be seen as punishment from god for their excess, and that god was telling them to abstain for ever. There were surely possibilities of diversities arising among the 'tribes' of Israel according to their different experiences. More interestingly for me, if Rechabites believed in an anti-wine god, did they also believe in a pro-tent god -- one who didn't dwell in a building made by men such as a temple? I wonder if an experience formed that view? Sincerely, Geoff For private reply, e-mail to "Geoff Hudson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To unsubscribe from Orion, e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: "unsubscribe Orion." Archives are on the Orion Web site, http://orion.mscc.huji.ac.il. (PLEASE REMOVE THIS TRAILOR BEFORE REPLYING TO THE MESSAGE)
