Re: orion-list Boccaccini: Beyond Essene Hypothesis?

2002-04-15 Thread Albert Baumgarten

Please look at the text. Ezek mentions Noah, Danel (not Daniel) and Job.
They are three famous righteous men of the larger cultural world. Perhaps
the reference to Danel has something to do with the hero of Ugaritic epic.
In any case, dating Ezek by the reference to Danel to the Maccabean era is
absurd, by my lights.
Al Baumgarten


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Re: orion-list Boccaccini: Beyond Essene Hypothesis?

2002-03-15 Thread RGmyrken

Hi Soren,

I just read most of Boccaccini's book -- skipped over his discussion of 
the Essenes in classical sources.  Boccaccini's thesis runs something like 
this.  First, he distinguishes and contrasts between Enochian Judaism (i.e. 
that responsible for the Enoch literature) and Zadokite Judaism (by which he 
means that associated with the Zadokite high priesthood - the high priests of 
the second temple down to Onias III
- which he associates with the Biblical texts and Mosaic Judaism).  He 
considers the Enoch literature to be opposed to that of the temple, high 
priests, and Moses (who doesn't appear in the Enoch literature).  Drawing 
somewhat on the ideas of Philip Davies' and F. Garcia Martinez, Boccaccini 
hypothesizes that the Essenes in post-Maccabean times, utilizing both 
Enochian and Zadokite literature, and that the Qumran sect was an offshoot of 
the Essenes c. 100 BCE.  He then analyzes the Qumran texts and detects an 
alienation of the Qumran sect from Enochian Judaism.  I hope my brief summary 
is reasonably accurate.  If not, any inaccuracies are purely unintentional.
On the opposition of Enochian and Zadokite Judaism, I think Boccaccini 
has gone beyond the evidence.  He says the Enoch literature is opposed to 
Mosaic, Zadokite Judaism, and it is true that (a) Enoch rather than Moses is 
the central figure; (b) in the Animal Apocalypse the second temple is viewed 
unfavorably, its offerings impure even in the Persian Period.  This is 
interesting, and it does tend to show opposition to the current priests and 
temple.  But Boccaccini asserts that while the Zadokite texts view the temple 
and priests as the defenders of moral purity, the Enoch literature views the 
entire world hopelessly and universaly evil, corrupted by the Watchers and 
even after the flood by the demons that were the souls of the drowned giants. 
 If I read Boccaccini right, Enoch was the last righteous man, translated to 
the angelic realm before the evil of the Watchers took over the earth.  I 
just do not see this as an accurate take on the Enoch texts.  Yes, evil is in 
the world, at least partially traceable to the Watchers in the Enoch 
literature (notably the Book of Watchers).  But Mosaic, Zadokite Judaism 
also acknowledges the existence of evil.  And the books of Enoch do not 
exclude the possibility of the righteous people as well.  Indeed, in the 
Animal Apocalypse the Israelites go through different phases of good sheep 
(whose eyes are open) and blind sheep, etc.  Additionally, Moses appears as a 
positive figure in the Animal Apocalypse, and the Apocalypse of Weeks refers 
favorably to Noah, to Abraham as the planting of righteousness, to the Mosaic 
law at Sinai.  Boccaccini overlooks these references.  There just does not 
seem to be the conflict between Enochian literature and Zadokite / Mosaic 
literature as overstated in Boccaccini's scheme.  
IMO his view of Jubilees is symptomatic of his mistaken analysis.  
Acknowledging that Jubilees is in the Enochian tradition, he considers the 
positive treatment of Moses and the Zadokite outlook as an amazing innovation 
by the author of Jubilees, brilliantly reconciling the Enochian and Zadokite 
approaches.  This interpretation is only valid if Boccaccini's questionable 
model of an anti-Zadokite Enoch tradition is already granted.  Rather, IMO 
Jubilees merely shows that the Enoch literary tradition had no problem at all 
with Moses, Genesis / Exodus, or the whole Zadokite tradition.  The Enoch 
texts were also popular at Qumran, which is full of Zadokite texts.  
Similarly among Christians.  Where were Enoch texts used in another context 
in which the Biblical tradition was rejected??  Boccaccini acknowledges that 
the Enoch literature was not associated with a separate Jewish sect.  I 
basically think Boccaccini's Enochian Judaism is a mirage, in the sense that 
there's no evidence they rejected Mosaic traditions or literature.  That is 
not to say it wasn't popular with some specific subset of Judaism, just that 
whoever wrote the Enoch texts -- and this is an important unsolved problem -- 
also appear to have held Moses and the Torah in high esteem.  
Another problem in Boccaccini's scheme is his dating of texts, which is 
frequently wrong in my opinion.  For instance, he dates Jubilees after the 
Maccabean Crisis, based on Jub. 4:19, And he [Enoch] saw what was and what 
will be in a vision of his sleep as it will happen among the children of men 
in their generations until the day of judgment.  This he properly takes to 
be a reference to the Book of Dreams (1 En. 83-90).  The second dream in this 
sub-document consists of the Animal Apocalypse, which was written in 163 BCE 
(it surveys Biblical history down to this date), so Boccaccini dates Jubilees 
to the post-Maccabean era (after 163 BCE).  But Boccaccini fails to note that 
the Book of Dreams is comprised of two dreams, and that the Jubilees 
reference only refers to 

RE: orion-list Boccaccini: Beyond Essene Hypothesis?

2002-03-06 Thread James R. Davila



In the Old Testament Pseudepigrapha online course and discussion list we
are coming up on sections on some of the Enochic works (The Book of the
Watchers, the Animal Apocalypse, and the Epistle of Enoch) in the next few
weeks.  Boccaccini's theory is very relevant to this material and
discussion of it would be welcome on the otpseud list.

For subscription information, see:
http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_sd/otpseud.html

(This message sent to the Orion list and copied to otpseud.)

Jim Davila

Soren,

Boccaccini's approach is worth discussing, and to my knowledge has not
been worked to death.  The one question might be the appropriate venue
for the discussion.  I'm in the midst of reading his more recent book on
the sources of Rabbinic Judaism and have yet to reach a conclusion about
what the Zadokite/Enochic distinction.  What is interesting to me at the
moment, however, is his methodological parallel in the recent work
between the discussion of the history of philosophy and the discussion
of the history of Judaism.

David Suter
Saint Martin's College

 -Original Message-
 From: Søren Holst [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2002 1:27 PM
 To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
 Subject: orion-list Boccaccini: Beyond Essene Hypothesis?


 I was wondering whether anybody on the list has insights to
 offer regarding
 Gabriele Boccaccini's book, Beyond the Essene Hypothesis? Apart from
 strictly scroll related issues, the underlying idea of 2nd
 temple judaism
 containg two main strands describable as Zadokite and Enochic
 respectively
 sounds intriguing.

 (I apologize if the subject has been flogged to death before
 -- I may have
 missed the discussion for the ironic reason of being in
 Jerusalem when the
 book came out, and not reading Orion e-mail regularly. And
 even worse: I
 haven't read the book, as the only copy in Denmark is found
 at the OTHER
 theology department, opposite end of the country).






Dr. Jim Davila
St. Mary's College
University of St. Andrews
St. Andrews, Fife KY16 9JU
Scotland
Tel.:  +44 1334 462834
Fax.:  +44 1334 462852
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_sd/jrd4.html

Apologies for the regrettably necessary legal gobbledygook below.

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RE: orion-list Boccaccini: Beyond Essene Hypothesis?

2002-03-05 Thread Suter, David

Soren,

Boccaccini's approach is worth discussing, and to my knowledge has not
been worked to death.  The one question might be the appropriate venue
for the discussion.  I'm in the midst of reading his more recent book on
the sources of Rabbinic Judaism and have yet to reach a conclusion about
what the Zadokite/Enochic distinction.  What is interesting to me at the
moment, however, is his methodological parallel in the recent work
between the discussion of the history of philosophy and the discussion
of the history of Judaism.

David Suter
Saint Martin's College

 -Original Message-
 From: Søren Holst [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2002 1:27 PM
 To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
 Subject: orion-list Boccaccini: Beyond Essene Hypothesis?
 
 
 I was wondering whether anybody on the list has insights to 
 offer regarding
 Gabriele Boccaccini's book, Beyond the Essene Hypothesis? Apart from
 strictly scroll related issues, the underlying idea of 2nd 
 temple judaism
 containg two main strands describable as Zadokite and Enochic 
 respectively
 sounds intriguing.
 
 (I apologize if the subject has been flogged to death before 
 -- I may have
 missed the discussion for the ironic reason of being in 
 Jerusalem when the
 book came out, and not reading Orion e-mail regularly. And 
 even worse: I
 haven't read the book, as the only copy in Denmark is found 
 at the OTHER
 theology department, opposite end of the country).
 
For private reply, e-mail to Suter, David [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To unsubscribe from Orion, e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the
message: unsubscribe Orion. Archives are on the Orion Web
site, http://orion.mscc.huji.ac.il.
(PLEASE REMOVE THIS TRAILOR BEFORE REPLYING TO THE MESSAGE)