Re: [OSList] Okay...Forget Certification then...How about Co-Creating a NEW OST ASSOCIATION? Such as...THE International Association for Peace and Human Understanding...?

[Chris Corrigan via OSList]

Right here. Here are the links for the Tao of Holding Space and if you’d like a 
beautiful designed copy email me for details. 


http://www.chriscorrigan.com/parkinglot/the-tao-of-holding-space/

Chris
_
CHRIS CORRIGAN
www.chriscorrigan.com

> On Aug 21, 2019, at 11:38 AM, Harrison Owen via OSList 
>  wrote:
> 
> Paul – Wonderful to hear from you! And… several years ago I was in Beijing 
> with peers, colleagues and friends who collectively had doubtless done many 
> more OSTs than I – all in a most challenging environment. They asked me to 
> say something and I replied that actually I thought it had all been said some 
> 3000 years ago by a marvelous person, Lao Tzu. And I think you would be 
> interested in a wonderful book done by an old friend, Chris Corrigan called 
> the “Tao of Holding Space.” Chris shows up here (OSLIST) more than 
> occasionally – Chris where are you? I think he put it up (PDF) online??? You 
> will enjoy.
>  
> Harrison
>  
> From: Paul Nunesdea [mailto:p.nunes...@architectingcollaboration.com] 
> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 2:11 PM
> To: World wide Open Space Technology email list
> Cc: Harrison Owen
> Subject: Re: [OSList] Okay...Forget Certification then...How about 
> Co-Creating a NEW OST ASSOCIATION? Such as...THE International Association 
> for Peace and Human Understanding...?
>  
> Greetings HO, I have been away from this list except when something 
> extraordinarily contentious happens here, and I got attracted by the 
> certification subject. 
>  
> Yes, just to say I am among those that used OST by reading your book + an 
> extremely helpful and long coaching call from Lisa Heft - the Open Space 
> Community's Mary Magdalene. 
>  
> Since then the power of self-organization never ceased to amaze me, and to be 
> honest my most precious ally when big challenges are faced. 
>  
> I have written books about group facilitation in my mother languages, I argue 
> OST is the ultimate group facilitation methodology, inspired by seminal work 
> of very dear IAF colleagues (and your disciples?) here in Europe, Gerardo de 
> Luzemberg and Jean-Philippe Poupard. 
>  
> And your answer below, reinforces my faith on this absolute mystery of 
> self-organization that have been helping me so much. 
>  
> Tanks for the unsuspected Dee Hock's book recommendation, I will read it 
> next. 
>  
> I apologize Listers if this other unsuspected reference below has already 
> been discussed here before, but I recently re-discovered Lao Tzu book Tao Te 
> Ching (the book of the way) and cannot think about the resemblances with your 
> discoveries HO. 
>  
> If you like listening instead of reading, this is an amazing free resource on 
> Youtube: 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2UYch2JnO4 
>  
> I suspect Lao Tzu's interpretation of what the master will do about OST's 
> certification is just about what you have written below, beloved father. 
>  
> Best wishes
> Paul Nunesdea | Paulo Nunes de Abreu 
> https://www.architectingcollaboration.com/
> 
>  
>  
> 
> 
>  
> On Tue, 20 Aug 2019 at 23:15, Harrison Owen via OSList 
>  wrote:
> Barry -- your notion about "scale" -- numbers of people -- is pretty close to 
> the accepted wisdom. Summed up in the old refrain, Some day we got to get 
> organized! Especially when we get bigger. Certainly makes sense, keeps a lot 
> of MBA programs in business, but simply doesn't accord with my experience. 
> First in terms of my usual standard reference... Open Spaces. The curious, 
> but I think instructive thing, is that every Open Space that I have 
> facilitated or been a part of -- regardless of size (5- 2108) has been 
> unnervingly the same. 10-15 minutes for opening, 20 min for issue 
> announcement, 30 minutes for market place arrangements (combinations, 
> reschedules, cup of coffee) 1 hour to start of first session -- and from 
> there on it all happened by itself. This has even been true in several 
> situation where a very hard working planning committee worked out every 
> detail in accord with the best meeting management protocols. Looked great on 
> paper, immediately fell apart, and just as quickly self organized, despite 
> their best efforts. Weird!
>  
> Then there is the observed behavior and accomplishments of what we might 
> vaguely call, "The Open Space Community." If you put aside all question of 
> how we got there, the accomplishments I believe are rather impressive. Indeed 
> there are very few HR consulting groups that could come anywhere close. Just 
> take the numbers: 35 years in business, minimum 500,000 "interventions," 
> millions of participants, thousands of facilitators, massive coverage by the 
> international press, and a multitude of imitators -- which is always a 
> complement in a weird way. Not bad if I do say so myself. AND it might be 
> pointed out that all of this took place without a shred of formal 
> organization, no institutional funding, no defined leadership structure, zero 
> 

Re: [OSList] Okay...Forget Certification then...How about Co-Creating a NEW OST ASSOCIATION? Such as...THE International Association for Peace and Human Understanding...?

[Harrison Owen via OSList]

Paul – Wonderful to hear from you! And… several years ago I was in Beijing with 
peers, colleagues and friends who collectively had doubtless done many more 
OSTs than I – all in a most challenging environment. They asked me to say 
something and I replied that actually I thought it had all been said some 3000 
years ago by a marvelous person, Lao Tzu. And I think you would be interested 
in a wonderful book done by an old friend, Chris Corrigan called the “Tao of 
Holding Space.” Chris shows up here (OSLIST) more than occasionally – Chris 
where are you? I think he put it up (PDF) online??? You will enjoy.

 

Harrison 

 

From: Paul Nunesdea [mailto:p.nunes...@architectingcollaboration.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 2:11 PM
To: World wide Open Space Technology email list
Cc: Harrison Owen
Subject: Re: [OSList] Okay...Forget Certification then...How about Co-Creating 
a NEW OST ASSOCIATION? Such as...THE International Association for Peace and 
Human Understanding...?

 

Greetings HO, I have been away from this list except when something 
extraordinarily contentious happens here, and I got attracted by the 
certification subject. 

 

Yes, just to say I am among those that used OST by reading your book + an 
extremely helpful and long coaching call from Lisa Heft - the Open Space 
Community's Mary Magdalene. 

 

Since then the power of self-organization never ceased to amaze me, and to be 
honest my most precious ally when big challenges are faced. 

 

I have written books about group facilitation in my mother languages, I argue 
OST is the ultimate group facilitation methodology, inspired by seminal work of 
very dear IAF colleagues (and your disciples?) here in Europe, Gerardo de 
Luzemberg and Jean-Philippe Poupard. 

 

And your answer below, reinforces my faith on this absolute mystery of 
self-organization that have been helping me so much. 

 

Tanks for the unsuspected Dee Hock's book recommendation, I will read it next. 

 

I apologize Listers if this other unsuspected reference below has already been 
discussed here before, but I recently re-discovered Lao Tzu book Tao Te Ching 
(the book of the way) and cannot think about the resemblances with your 
discoveries HO. 

 

If you like listening instead of reading, this is an amazing free resource on 
Youtube: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2UYch2JnO4 

 

I suspect Lao Tzu's interpretation of what the master will do about OST's 
certification is just about what you have written below, beloved father. 

 

Best wishes


Paul Nunesdea | Paulo Nunes de Abreu 

  
https://www.architectingcollaboration.com/

   

 

 


  

 

 

On Tue, 20 Aug 2019 at 23:15, Harrison Owen via OSList 
 wrote:

Barry -- your notion about "scale" -- numbers of people -- is pretty close to 
the accepted wisdom. Summed up in the old refrain, Some day we got to get 
organized! Especially when we get bigger. Certainly makes sense, keeps a lot of 
MBA programs in business, but simply doesn't accord with my experience. First 
in terms of my usual standard reference... Open Spaces. The curious, but I 
think instructive thing, is that every Open Space that I have facilitated or 
been a part of -- regardless of size (5- 2108) has been unnervingly the same. 
10-15 minutes for opening, 20 min for issue announcement, 30 minutes for market 
place arrangements (combinations, reschedules, cup of coffee) 1 hour to start 
of first session -- and from there on it all happened by itself. This has even 
been true in several situation where a very hard working planning committee 
worked out every detail in accord with the best meeting management protocols. 
Looked great on paper, immediately fell apart, and just as quickly self 
organized, despite their best efforts. Weird! 

 

Then there is the observed behavior and accomplishments of what we might 
vaguely call, "The Open Space Community." If you put aside all question of how 
we got there, the accomplishments I believe are rather impressive. Indeed there 
are very few HR consulting groups that could come anywhere close. Just take the 
numbers: 35 years in business, minimum 500,000 "interventions," millions of 
participants, thousands of facilitators, massive coverage by the international 
press, and a multitude of imitators -- which is always a complement in a weird 
way. Not bad if I do say so myself. AND it might be pointed out that all of 
this took place without a shred of formal organization, no institutional 
funding, no defined leadership structure, zero effort at standardization or 
certification. Why would anybody want to change that ... even if you could?

 

And then in the REAL WORLD... That would be Corporations, Governments, NGOs -- 
I can give you any number of examples where such organizations spent millions 
of $$$ to get organized, 

Re: [OSList] Okay...Forget Certification then...How about Co-Creating a NEW OST ASSOCIATION? Such as...THE International Association for Peace and Human Understanding...?

[Paul Nunesdea via OSList]

Greetings HO, I have been away from this list except when something 
extraordinarily contentious happens here, and I got attracted by the 
certification subject. 

Yes, just to say I am among those that used OST by reading your book + an 
extremely helpful and long coaching call from Lisa Heft - the Open Space 
Community's Mary Magdalene. 

Since then the power of self-organization never ceased to amaze me, and to be 
honest my most precious ally when big challenges are faced. 

I have written books about group facilitation in my mother languages, I argue 
OST is the ultimate group facilitation methodology, inspired by seminal work of 
very dear IAF colleagues (and your disciples?) here in Europe, Gerardo de 
Luzemberg and Jean-Philippe Poupard. 

And your answer below, reinforces my faith on this absolute mystery of 
self-organization that have been helping me so much. 

Tanks for the unsuspected Dee Hock's book recommendation, I will read it next. 

I apologize Listers if this other unsuspected reference below has already been 
discussed here before, but I recently re-discovered Lao Tzu book Tao Te Ching 
(the book of the way) and cannot think about the resemblances with your 
discoveries HO. 

If you like listening instead of reading, this is an amazing free resource on 
Youtube: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2UYch2JnO4 

I suspect Lao Tzu's interpretation of what the master will do about OST's 
certification is just about what you have written below, beloved father. 
 
Best wishes 
 
Paul Nunesdea | Paulo Nunes de Abreu 
https://www.architectingcollaboration.com/


Sent from my iPhone

> On 20 Aug 2019, at 22:15, Harrison Owen via OSList 
>  wrote:
> 
> Barry -- your notion about "scale" -- numbers of people -- is pretty close to 
> the accepted wisdom. Summed up in the old refrain, Some day we got to get 
> organized! Especially when we get bigger. Certainly makes sense, keeps a lot 
> of MBA programs in business, but simply doesn't accord with my experience. 
> First in terms of my usual standard reference... Open Spaces. The curious, 
> but I think instructive thing, is that every Open Space that I have 
> facilitated or been a part of -- regardless of size (5- 2108) has been 
> unnervingly the same. 10-15 minutes for opening, 20 min for issue 
> announcement, 30 minutes for market place arrangements (combinations, 
> reschedules, cup of coffee) 1 hour to start of first session -- and from 
> there on it all happened by itself. This has even been true in several 
> situation where a very hard working planning committee worked out every 
> detail in accord with the best meeting management protocols. Looked great on 
> paper, immediately fell apart, and just as quickly self organized, despite 
> their best efforts. Weird!
> 
> Then there is the observed behavior and accomplishments of what we might 
> vaguely call, "The Open Space Community." If you put aside all question of 
> how we got there, the accomplishments I believe are rather impressive. Indeed 
> there are very few HR consulting groups that could come anywhere close. Just 
> take the numbers: 35 years in business, minimum 500,000 "interventions," 
> millions of participants, thousands of facilitators, massive coverage by the 
> international press, and a multitude of imitators -- which is always a 
> complement in a weird way. Not bad if I do say so myself. AND it might be 
> pointed out that all of this took place without a shred of formal 
> organization, no institutional funding, no defined leadership structure, zero 
> effort at standardization or certification. Why would anybody want to change 
> that ... even if you could?
> 
> And then in the REAL WORLD... That would be Corporations, Governments, NGOs 
> -- I can give you any number of examples where such organizations spent 
> millions of $$$ to get organized, failed, -- and then opened some space to 
> accomplish in several days where they had failed miserably for years. I "did" 
> a few of those personally, but in most cases (if I was directly involved) I 
> advised that they save a lot of money, buy the book, and do it. And of course 
> there were any number of situations where sensitive participants of one OST 
> simply went out and "did" it again without benefit of book, training, 
> certification. Marvelous!
> 
> And if you want "testimony" from a different, and presumably unbiased source, 
> check out Dee Hock, "Chaordic Organizations."
> 
> Harrison (and -- of course -- also your father.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Barry Owen via OSList 
> To: World wide Open Space Technology email list 
> 
> Cc: Barry Owen ; Michael M Pannwitz 
> 
> Sent: Tue, Aug 20, 2019 11:10 am
> Subject: Re: [OSList] Okay...Forget Certification then...How about 
> Co-Creating a NEW OST ASSOCIATION? Such as...THE International Association 
> for Peace and Human Understanding...?
> 
> I've been mulling this over for months now. 
> Have come to what I think is a conclusion 

Re: [OSList] Okay...Forget Certification then...How about Co-Creating a NEW OST ASSOCIATION? Such as...THE International Association for Peace and Human Understanding...?

[Harrison Owen via OSList]

Barry -- your notion about "scale" -- numbers of people -- is pretty close to 
the accepted wisdom. Summed up in the old refrain, Some day we got to get 
organized! Especially when we get bigger. Certainly makes sense, keeps a lot of 
MBA programs in business, but simply doesn't accord with my experience. First 
in terms of my usual standard reference... Open Spaces. The curious, but I 
think instructive thing, is that every Open Space that I have facilitated or 
been a part of -- regardless of size (5- 2108) has been unnervingly the same. 
10-15 minutes for opening, 20 min for issue announcement, 30 minutes for market 
place arrangements (combinations, reschedules, cup of coffee) 1 hour to start 
of first session -- and from there on it all happened by itself. This has even 
been true in several situation where a very hard working planning committee 
worked out every detail in accord with the best meeting management protocols. 
Looked great on paper, immediately fell apart, and just as quickly self 
organized, despite their best efforts. Weird!
Then there is the observed behavior and accomplishments of what we might 
vaguely call, "The Open Space Community." If you put aside all question of how 
we got there, the accomplishments I believe are rather impressive. Indeed there 
are very few HR consulting groups that could come anywhere close. Just take the 
numbers: 35 years in business, minimum 500,000 "interventions," millions of 
participants, thousands of facilitators, massive coverage by the international 
press, and a multitude of imitators -- which is always a complement in a weird 
way. Not bad if I do say so myself. AND it might be pointed out that all of 
this took place without a shred of formal organization, no institutional 
funding, no defined leadership structure, zero effort at standardization or 
certification. Why would anybody want to change that ... even if you could?
And then in the REAL WORLD... That would be Corporations, Governments, NGOs -- 
I can give you any number of examples where such organizations spent millions 
of $$$ to get organized, failed, -- and then opened some space to accomplish in 
several days where they had failed miserably for years. I "did" a few of those 
personally, but in most cases (if I was directly involved) I advised that they 
save a lot of money, buy the book, and do it. And of course there were any 
number of situations where sensitive participants of one OST simply went out 
and "did" it again without benefit of book, training, certification. Marvelous!
And if you want "testimony" from a different, and presumably unbiased source, 
check out Dee Hock, "Chaordic Organizations."
Harrison (and -- of course -- also your father.)





-Original Message-
From: Barry Owen via OSList 
To: World wide Open Space Technology email list 
Cc: Barry Owen ; Michael M Pannwitz 

Sent: Tue, Aug 20, 2019 11:10 am
Subject: Re: [OSList] Okay...Forget Certification then...How about Co-Creating 
a NEW OST ASSOCIATION? Such as...THE International Association for Peace and 
Human Understanding...?

I've been mulling this over for months now. Have come to what I think is a 
conclusion that blaming the mayhem on "Organisations" is akin to "shooting the 
messenger" . . . making it a martyr.After all, any time there's more than one 
person present, it's essentially the birth of an "organisation".I think the 
real problem is that of scale.It seems to me that, as the number "Members" 
increases in any "gathering", the perceived "need" for organisation becomes 
more prevalent.As that dynamic evolves, the people seem to "forget" what 
"brung'm here" . . . That is . . . those things that have never changed
BreathCircleBulletin BoardMarketplaceExpect to be (be prepared to be) surprised
fall by the wayside as more and more "social constructs" emerge thereby 
converting Open Space to Command and control.Oh yeah . . . and "keeping up with 
the Joneses"
My opinion is that the "mandate" of "just open more space anywhere and 
everywhere" is an open invitation for all of us (humanity) to remember to: 
BreatheName the Theme (Important, Complex, Diversity of People/Opinions, 
potential for conflict, need for resolution NOW)Invite whoever caresGather in a 
circleCreate the Bulletin BoardOpen the marketplaceGet to work!
and the best news is that everyone already knows how to do this . . . we've 
just gotta remind them.
So . . . I think more organisations will "get" this as we open more space every 
day. 
They're not broken or corrupt! 
Bless their hearts . . . They're simply forgetful, and all we've gotta do is 
remind them.
or something . . . 
b

On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 5:03 AM Michael M Pannwitz via OSList 
 wrote:

Dear all,

my assumption regarding "organisation" is that they are the work of the 
devil.
They are omnipresent. There is practically nothing that can do without 
an "organisation". Government, churches, mafia, health care, schools, 
prisons, military, restaurants, 

Re: [OSList] Okay...Forget Certification then...How about Co-Creating a NEW OST ASSOCIATION? Such as...THE International Association for Peace and Human Understanding...?

[Michael Herman via OSList]

Paul, if I remember right, the severely dehydrated need to be restored with
IV's.The water analogy is a good one though, in another sense...
We all have something we call a mind, but many people never look at mind.
People have been teaching meditation for a long time to do just that.  The
teachings vary from "sit this way" to the more direct "look at your mind."
The usual analogy is that we are like fish who don't know we are in water.
What good does awareness of water do for a fish?  Hard to say, but
awareness of mind and organization spaces seems to help people.  As for
teaching?  It's easy to point it out in a minute or a second as you say,
but it takes some work and practice to stabilize that view, in action.
Teaching or coaching can be helpful with that I think.


--

Michael Herman
Michael Herman Associates
312-280-7838 (mobile)

http://MichaelHerman.com
http://OpenSpaceWorld.org




On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 9:58 AM Royle, Karl via OSList <
oslist@lists.openspacetech.org> wrote:

> Sounds a bit like “lifelong learning” which has been critiqued for placing
> individuals as being at fault for not fitting in with the general
> capitalist project…
>
>
>
> Just a thought…. Also see therapeutic governance ☺
>
>
>
> *From: *OSList  on behalf of Tony
> Budak via OSList 
> *Reply-To: *World wide Open Space Technology email list <
> oslist@lists.openspacetech.org>
> *Date: *Tuesday, 20 August 2019 at 16:47
> *To: *"oslist@lists.openspacetech.org" 
> *Cc: *Tony Budak 
> *Subject: *Re: [OSList] Okay...Forget Certification then...How about
> Co-Creating a NEW OST ASSOCIATION? Such as...THE International Association
> for Peace and Human Understanding...?
>
>
>
> How about "Learning Networks that re-engage people into a learning culture
> that is relevant to their lives, supports their aspirations and recognizes
> their own inherent talents?"
>
> Please CLICK the following to set up a meeting. All my contact info is
> here:
> https://pickatime.acuityscheduling.com/
> 
>
> Thanks for creating our tomorrows,
> Tony
>
> On 8/19/2019 11:29 AM, Mark Carmel via OSList wrote:
>
> 1st of all thank you for everyone who gave me feedback on my big idea for
> certification. It was sincerely appreciated. However I can see it was
> something that did not  Resonate well.
>
>
>
> Open space technology has clearly set the standard for the facilitation of
> peace and human understanding. It is such a powerful and simple tool but
> highly complex. As Harrison says..  chaos plows the fields of the mind so
> that new ideas can grow... I think there is ample chaos for us to tackle
> right now.
>
>
>
> I think it is highly important for the leadership of our open space world
> to make a decision now while we still have Harrison among us as a living
> spirit. Because we have already set the standards why not cement the
> standards and turn it into an everlasting association that could be
> organized to deliver training, etc. To advance the mission of human peace
> and understanding in a more organized way?
>
>
>
> If you want to be a beautician or a mechanic or a rocket scientist or a
> city manager there are associations for that .
>
>
>
> Why not an association for open space technology practitioners to define
> the standards, the ethics, code of conduct, the way that Harrison has
> already articulated them, but to formalize them and help us get organized
> and stay organized until we get the job done?
>
>
>
> Respectfully submitted,
>
> Mark Carmel
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
> OSList mailing list
>
> To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org
>
> To unsubscribe send an email to oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org
>
> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
>
> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org 
> 
>
> Past archives can be viewed here: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org 
> 
>
> ___
> 

Re: [OSList] Okay...Forget Certification then...How about Co-Creating a NEW OST ASSOCIATION? Such as...THE International Association for Peace and Human Understanding...?

[Royle, Karl via OSList]

Sounds a bit like “lifelong learning” which has been critiqued for placing 
individuals as being at fault for not fitting in with the general capitalist 
project…

Just a thought…. Also see therapeutic governance ☺

From: OSList  on behalf of Tony Budak 
via OSList 
Reply-To: World wide Open Space Technology email list 

Date: Tuesday, 20 August 2019 at 16:47
To: "oslist@lists.openspacetech.org" 
Cc: Tony Budak 
Subject: Re: [OSList] Okay...Forget Certification then...How about Co-Creating 
a NEW OST ASSOCIATION? Such as...THE International Association for Peace and 
Human Understanding...?


How about "Learning Networks that re-engage people into a learning culture that 
is relevant to their lives, supports their aspirations and recognizes their own 
inherent talents?"

Please CLICK the following to set up a meeting. All my contact info is here:
https://pickatime.acuityscheduling.com/

Thanks for creating our tomorrows,
Tony
On 8/19/2019 11:29 AM, Mark Carmel via OSList wrote:
1st of all thank you for everyone who gave me feedback on my big idea for 
certification. It was sincerely appreciated. However I can see it was something 
that did not  Resonate well.

Open space technology has clearly set the standard for the facilitation of 
peace and human understanding. It is such a powerful and simple tool but highly 
complex. As Harrison says..  chaos plows the fields of the mind so that new 
ideas can grow... I think there is ample chaos for us to tackle right now.

I think it is highly important for the leadership of our open space world to 
make a decision now while we still have Harrison among us as a living spirit. 
Because we have already set the standards why not cement the standards and turn 
it into an everlasting association that could be organized to deliver training, 
etc. To advance the mission of human peace and understanding in a more 
organized way?

If you want to be a beautician or a mechanic or a rocket scientist or a city 
manager there are associations for that .

Why not an association for open space technology practitioners to define the 
standards, the ethics, code of conduct, the way that Harrison has already 
articulated them, but to formalize them and help us get organized and stay 
organized until we get the job done?

Respectfully submitted,
Mark Carmel





___

OSList mailing list

To post send emails to 
OSList@lists.openspacetech.org

To unsubscribe send an email to 
oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org

To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:

http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org

Past archives can be viewed here: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
___
OSList mailing list
To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org
To unsubscribe send an email to oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org
To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
Past archives can be viewed here: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org

Re: [OSList] Okay...Forget Certification then...How about Co-Creating a NEW OST ASSOCIATION? Such as...THE International Association for Peace and Human Understanding...?

[Tony Budak via OSList]

How about "Learning Networks that re-engage people into a learning 
culture that is relevant to their lives, supports their aspirations and 
recognizes their own inherent talents?"


Please CLICK the following to set up a meeting. All my contact info is here:
https://pickatime.acuityscheduling.com/

Thanks for creating our tomorrows,
Tony

On 8/19/2019 11:29 AM, Mark Carmel via OSList wrote:
1st of all thank you for everyone who gave me feedback on my big idea 
for certification. It was sincerely appreciated. However I can see it 
was something that did not Resonate well.


Open space technology has clearly set the standard for the 
facilitation of peace and human understanding. It is such a powerful 
and simple tool but highly complex. As Harrison says..  chaos plows 
the fields of the mind so that new ideas can grow... I think there is 
ample chaos for us to tackle right now.


I think it is highly important for the leadership of our open space 
world to make a decision now while we still have Harrison among us as 
a living spirit. Because we have already set the standards why not 
cement the standards and turn it into an everlasting association that 
could be organized to deliver training, etc. To advance the mission of 
human peace and understanding in a more organized way?


If you want to be a beautician or a mechanic or a rocket scientist or 
a city manager there are associations for that .


Why not an association for open space technology practitioners to 
define the standards, the ethics, code of conduct, the way that 
Harrison has already articulated them, but to formalize them and help 
us get organized and stay organized until we get the job done?


Respectfully submitted,
Mark Carmel



___
OSList mailing list
To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org
To unsubscribe send an email to oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org
To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
Past archives can be viewed here: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
___
OSList mailing list
To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org
To unsubscribe send an email to oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org
To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
Past archives can be viewed here: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org

Re: [OSList] Okay...Forget Certification then...How about Co-Creating a NEW OST ASSOCIATION? Such as...THE International Association for Peace and Human Understanding...?

[Tony Budak via OSList]

From Devin Balkind: https://wiki.p2pfoundation.net/Spokes_Council_Model

"Occupy Sandy, which took place about a year after Occupy Wall Street, 
worked a bit differently. We recognized the flaw in a council of 
affinity groups and instead organized a spokes council around projects. 
Project members, unlike group members, had to agree to maintain a 
membership list, vouch for their members, and articulate success metrics 
that the group had to meet to remain in good standing with the council. 
Those elements made a world of difference. The Occupy Sandy Project 
Council successfully managed hundreds of thousands of dollars through a 
consensus-based process that, while sometimes contentious and stressful, 
actually succeeded in allocating funds to impactful projects in 
transparent ways that won the respect of myriads of people — from city 
officials to direct action organizers. I've been trying to translate 
this "project spokescouncil" approach to other types of organizations 
ever since, with some success.


Here's how I've been applying these principles:

*Instead of creating an "organization," create a charter that explains 
how to run a network. *


**

*Instead of figuring out all the things you want your organization to 
do, find people already doing these things and invite them to join your 
network. *


**

*Instead of creating a central administration to run the network, 
encourage projects to commit to performing the various functions needed 
to sustain the network, including administrative ones. *


One of the great features of the project spokescouncil approach is that 
participating projects don't have to agree on anything more than a 
charter. For-profits, nonprofits, cooperatives, coalitions, grassroots 
projects, and other groups can all coexist without forcing their 
processes on each other"


On 8/19/2019 11:29 AM, Mark Carmel via OSList wrote:
1st of all thank you for everyone who gave me feedback on my big idea 
for certification. It was sincerely appreciated. However I can see it 
was something that did not Resonate well.


Open space technology has clearly set the standard for the 
facilitation of peace and human understanding. It is such a powerful 
and simple tool but highly complex. As Harrison says..  chaos plows 
the fields of the mind so that new ideas can grow... I think there is 
ample chaos for us to tackle right now.


I think it is highly important for the leadership of our open space 
world to make a decision now while we still have Harrison among us as 
a living spirit. Because we have already set the standards why not 
cement the standards and turn it into an everlasting association that 
could be organized to deliver training, etc. To advance the mission of 
human peace and understanding in a more organized way?


If you want to be a beautician or a mechanic or a rocket scientist or 
a city manager there are associations for that .


Why not an association for open space technology practitioners to 
define the standards, the ethics, code of conduct, the way that 
Harrison has already articulated them, but to formalize them and help 
us get organized and stay organized until we get the job done?


Respectfully submitted,
Mark Carmel



___
OSList mailing list
To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org
To unsubscribe send an email to oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org
To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
Past archives can be viewed here: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
___
OSList mailing list
To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org
To unsubscribe send an email to oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org
To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
Past archives can be viewed here: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org

Re: [OSList] Okay...Forget Certification then...How about Co-Creating a NEW OST ASSOCIATION? Such as...THE International Association for Peace and Human Understanding...?

[Barry Owen via OSList]

I've been mulling this over for months now.
Have come to what I think is a conclusion that blaming the mayhem on
"Organisations" is akin to "shooting the messenger" . . . making it a
martyr.
After all, any time there's more than one person present, it's essentially
the birth of an "organisation".
I think the real problem is that of scale.
It seems to me that, as the number "Members" increases in any "gathering",
the perceived "need" for organisation becomes more prevalent.
As that dynamic evolves, the people seem to "forget" what "brung'm here" .
. . That is . . . those things that have never changed

Breath
Circle
Bulletin Board
Marketplace
Expect to be (be prepared to be) surprised

fall by the wayside as more and more "social constructs" emerge thereby
converting Open Space to Command and control.
Oh yeah . . . and "keeping up with the Joneses"

My opinion is that the "mandate" of "just open more space anywhere and
everywhere" is an open invitation for all of us (humanity) to remember to:

Breathe
Name the Theme (Important, Complex, Diversity of People/Opinions, potential
for conflict, need for resolution NOW)
Invite whoever cares
Gather in a circle
Create the Bulletin Board
Open the marketplace
Get to work!

and the best news is that everyone already knows how to do this . . . we've
just gotta remind them.

So . . . I think more organisations will "get" this as we open more space
every day.

They're not broken or corrupt!

Bless their hearts . . . They're simply forgetful, and all we've gotta do
is remind them.

or something . . .

b


On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 5:03 AM Michael M Pannwitz via OSList <
oslist@lists.openspacetech.org> wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> my assumption regarding "organisation" is that they are the work of the
> devil.
> They are omnipresent. There is practically nothing that can do without
> an "organisation". Government, churches, mafia, health care, schools,
> prisons, military, restaurants, foundations, associations, universities,
> concentration camps, secret service, sports, museums, shipyards,
> daycare, labour unions, political parties, courts, NGOs, NATO, ... you
> name it.
> Thinking beyond "organisations" seems impossible.
> Working for, in, against, with, through, in spite of, etc.
> "organisations" is omnipresent.
> And to make things even worse, they all are selforganising, right?
> And despite or because of their existence we have wars, starvation,
> pollution, glaciers disappearing, crime, corruption, you name it.
> Now, organisations not created by the devil but lets say by God would
> not create such a mess.
> One of the most lucrative businesses just about everywhere is
> consulting. Huge consulting firms work with/for/ect. huge businesses,
> governments, NGOs. Millions of folks work in that field helping them to
> become better, faster, etc. in the business they are involved in.
>
> Now, is ost something that consulting firms are into?
>
> There are some forms of "systems" such as neighborhoods, circles of
> friends, collegial counselling groups, OSonOS (local, regional,
> worldwide), people playing soccer with a tin can on a vacant lot,
> families, demonstrations (HongKong, Fridays for Future...), Stammtische...
> I smile in such settings, happy myself, grow myself... in such
> "settings" and also frustrate myself now and then. Especially when
> "control" enters the stage.
> And at some point many such "systems" or "settings" ossify when they
> take on the form of "organisations". In other words, the devil takes over.
> Some of us smell that when it approaches and say "no". And move on or
> drop out or fight or...
>
> Ok, this is stuff that comes up when I look at my "assumption" regarding
> "organisation".
>
> I would like to hear more about your "assumptions" that come up when
> "organisation" enters your mind.
>
> Greetings from Berlin
> mmp
>
>
>
> Am 20.08.2019 um 00:04 schrieb R Chaffe via OSList:
> > Chris,
> > I look forward to Mark’s reply to your question.  It seems to me that
> that the question mixes up the who and the what.  Mark uses a few examples
> including a mechanic, the first question I have is what experience the
> trade person has my second is an example of their work.  OST is at one
> level about the “how” the job is done and I think that is one level the
> question comes from.  Being able to Open Space and engage effectively with
> the sponsor and the community of concern is an other level again.
> >
> > There is a level of trust between the sponsor and the facilitator that
> the result the sponsor wants will be delivered.  The sponsor might ask how
> did you do that? I suggest that they are more interested on what you as
> facilitator delivered based on the contract.
> >
> > In many ways focusing on the how is counter productive the “what” is the
> thing that pays the bills and builds reputations.
> >
> > If my thinking is correct the struggle is to define a professional
> facilitator who can deliver is the issue not what tools they use when 

Re: [OSList] Okay...Forget Certification then...How about Co-Creating a NEW OST ASSOCIATION? Such as...THE International Association for Peace and Human Understanding...?

[R Chaffe via OSList]

Paul
You say
“For me, offering training in OST is like taking a day to train someone in how 
to drink fresh water.”

Right now millions of dollars are being spent doing just that “teaching people 
to drink fresh water” because in the western world we have lost our way and 
cannot even feed ourselves properly any more.  Your example is so true we do 
have to teach people to find an open space to provide genuine opportunities to 
be part of their future.  

Think again, you may be the best person to do just that and teach people about 
Open Space and it’s technology.

Regards
Rob

> On 20 Aug 2019, at 7:31 pm, paul levy via OSList 
>  wrote:
> 
> For me, offering training in OST is like taking a day to train someone in how 
> to drink fresh water.
> 
> Regards 
> 
> Paul Levy
___
OSList mailing list
To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org
To unsubscribe send an email to oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org
To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
Past archives can be viewed here: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org

Re: [OSList] Okay...Forget Certification then...How about Co-Creating a NEW OST ASSOCIATION? Such as...THE International Association for Peace and Human Understanding...?

[Michael M Pannwitz via OSList]

Dear Mark,

at the end of your note your say:

"...formalize them (standards, ethics, code of conduct) and help us get
organized and stay organized until we get the job done."

How would you describe the "job" to get done?

Cheers
mmp

Am 19.08.2019 um 17:29 schrieb Mark Carmel via OSList:
1st of all thank you for everyone who gave me feedback on my big idea 
for certification. It was sincerely appreciated. However I can see it 
was something that did not  Resonate well.


Open space technology has clearly set the standard for the facilitation 
of peace and human understanding. It is such a powerful and simple tool 
but highly complex. As Harrison says..  chaos plows the fields of the 
mind so that new ideas can grow... I think there is ample chaos for us 
to tackle right now.


I think it is highly important for the leadership of our open space 
world to make a decision now while we still have Harrison among us as a 
living spirit. Because we have already set the standards why not cement 
the standards and turn it into an everlasting association that could be 
organized to deliver training, etc. To advance the mission of human 
peace and understanding in a more organized way?


If you want to be a beautician or a mechanic or a rocket scientist or a 
city manager there are associations for that .


Why not an association for open space technology practitioners to define 
the standards, the ethics, code of conduct, the way that Harrison has 
already articulated them, but to formalize them and help us get 
organized and stay organized until we get the job done?


Respectfully submitted,
Mark Carmel



___
OSList mailing list
To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org
To unsubscribe send an email to oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org
To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
Past archives can be viewed here: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org



--
Michael M Pannwitz
Draisweg 1, 12209 Berlin, Germany
++49 - 30-772 8000
mmpannw...@gmail.com


Check out the Open Space World Map presently showing 487 resident Open 
Space Workers in 76 countries working in a total of 142 countries worldwide

www.openspaceworldmap.org

At my publisher you find books and task cards on open space, most in 
German, some in English, some as ebooks, some multilingual

https://www.westkreuz-verlag.de/de/Kommunikation
___
OSList mailing list
To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org
To unsubscribe send an email to oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org
To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
Past archives can be viewed here: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org

Re: [OSList] Okay...Forget Certification then...How about Co-Creating a NEW OST ASSOCIATION? Such as...THE International Association for Peace and Human Understanding...?

[Royle, Karl via OSList]

You might look at examples from the past... the anarchists at the start of the 
Spanish civil war spring to mind 

Sent by iPhone
Karl Royle
Head of Enterprise and Commercial Development

Faculty of Education Health and Wellbeing
University of Wolverhampton 
01902323006
07815416698
@karlroyle. On Twitter
Karlr61 Skype 


> On 20 Aug 2019, at 09:47, Michael M Pannwitz via OSList 
>  wrote:
> 
> Dear all,
> 
> my assumption regarding "organisation" is that they are the work of the devil.
> They are omnipresent. There is practically nothing that can do without an 
> "organisation". Government, churches, mafia, health care, schools, prisons, 
> military, restaurants, foundations, associations, universities, concentration 
> camps, secret service, sports, museums, shipyards, daycare, labour unions, 
> political parties, courts, NGOs, NATO, ... you name it.
> Thinking beyond "organisations" seems impossible.
> Working for, in, against, with, through, in spite of, etc. "organisations" is 
> omnipresent.
> And to make things even worse, they all are selforganising, right?
> And despite or because of their existence we have wars, starvation, 
> pollution, glaciers disappearing, crime, corruption, you name it.
> Now, organisations not created by the devil but lets say by God would not 
> create such a mess.
> One of the most lucrative businesses just about everywhere is consulting. 
> Huge consulting firms work with/for/ect. huge businesses, governments, NGOs. 
> Millions of folks work in that field helping them to become better, faster, 
> etc. in the business they are involved in.
> 
> Now, is ost something that consulting firms are into?
> 
> There are some forms of "systems" such as neighborhoods, circles of friends, 
> collegial counselling groups, OSonOS (local, regional, worldwide), people 
> playing soccer with a tin can on a vacant lot, families, demonstrations 
> (HongKong, Fridays for Future...), Stammtische...
> I smile in such settings, happy myself, grow myself... in such "settings" and 
> also frustrate myself now and then. Especially when "control" enters the 
> stage.
> And at some point many such "systems" or "settings" ossify when they take on 
> the form of "organisations". In other words, the devil takes over.
> Some of us smell that when it approaches and say "no". And move on or drop 
> out or fight or...
> 
> Ok, this is stuff that comes up when I look at my "assumption" regarding 
> "organisation".
> 
> I would like to hear more about your "assumptions" that come up when 
> "organisation" enters your mind.
> 
> Greetings from Berlin
> mmp
> 
> 
> 
>> Am 20.08.2019 um 00:04 schrieb R Chaffe via OSList:
>> Chris,
>> I look forward to Mark’s reply to your question.  It seems to me that that 
>> the question mixes up the who and the what.  Mark uses a few examples 
>> including a mechanic, the first question I have is what experience the trade 
>> person has my second is an example of their work.  OST is at one level about 
>> the “how” the job is done and I think that is one level the question comes 
>> from.  Being able to Open Space and engage effectively with the sponsor and 
>> the community of concern is an other level again.
>> There is a level of trust between the sponsor and the facilitator that the 
>> result the sponsor wants will be delivered.  The sponsor might ask how did 
>> you do that? I suggest that they are more interested on what you as 
>> facilitator delivered based on the contract.
>> In many ways focusing on the how is counter productive the “what” is the 
>> thing that pays the bills and builds reputations.
>> If my thinking is correct the struggle is to define a professional 
>> facilitator who can deliver is the issue not what tools they use when it 
>> comes to a contract.
>> Regards
>> Rob
>>> On 20 Aug 2019, at 2:31 am, Chris Corrigan via OSList 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Whenever I want to know if my work of Hosting an Open Space Technology 
>>> meeting was useful, I give the participants a form that sinplay says 
>>> “complete the following sentence. As a result of this meeting...”
>>> 
>>> The only people who should be judging the efficacy of an OST meeting are 
>>> the people who called it in the first place to get their work done. In my 
>>> experience, they are happy if the meeting has helped them.
>>> 
>>> My work is always directed towards client needs. Some times we do Open 
>>> Space. Sometimes we do it in a way that would drive a “by the book” person 
>>> crazy. But it’s about the clients. I doubt there is a way my process could 
>>> be formalized in a way that works better for my clients than sitting down 
>>> and listening to their needs.
>>> 
>>> There is already a network of Open Space Institutes who steward this 
>>> practice. There is an international association of facilitators who can 
>>> join if you want certification.
>>> 
>>> I find myself constantly wanting to defend this radical openness. Mark, 
>>> what is behind your string desire for 

Re: [OSList] Okay...Forget Certification then...How about Co-Creating a NEW OST ASSOCIATION? Such as...THE International Association for Peace and Human Understanding...?

[paul levy via OSList]

Twenty years ago when I needed to earn some money fast I remember
considering offering a day's training in OST.

I quickly decided against.

In fact the decision made itself.

For me, offering training in OST is like taking a day to train someone in
how to drink fresh water.

Regards

Paul Levy

On Mon, 19 Aug 2019 at 16:29, Mark Carmel via OSList <
oslist@lists.openspacetech.org> wrote:

> 1st of all thank you for everyone who gave me feedback on my big idea for
> certification. It was sincerely appreciated. However I can see it was
> something that did not  Resonate well.
>
> Open space technology has clearly set the standard for the facilitation of
> peace and human understanding. It is such a powerful and simple tool but
> highly complex. As Harrison says..  chaos plows the fields of the mind so
> that new ideas can grow... I think there is ample chaos for us to tackle
> right now.
>
> I think it is highly important for the leadership of our open space world
> to make a decision now while we still have Harrison among us as a living
> spirit. Because we have already set the standards why not cement the
> standards and turn it into an everlasting association that could be
> organized to deliver training, etc. To advance the mission of human peace
> and understanding in a more organized way?
>
> If you want to be a beautician or a mechanic or a rocket scientist or a
> city manager there are associations for that .
>
> Why not an association for open space technology practitioners to define
> the standards, the ethics, code of conduct, the way that Harrison has
> already articulated them, but to formalize them and help us get organized
> and stay organized until we get the job done?
>
> Respectfully submitted,
> Mark Carmel
>
>
> ___
> OSList mailing list
> To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org
> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
> Past archives can be viewed here:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
___
OSList mailing list
To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org
To unsubscribe send an email to oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org
To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
Past archives can be viewed here: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org

Re: [OSList] Okay...Forget Certification then...How about Co-Creating a NEW OST ASSOCIATION? Such as...THE International Association for Peace and Human Understanding...?

[Kári Gunnarsson via OSList]

Sure, no problem at all

It's always good to have a few more flowers blooming, then there is more
food for the bees. And we need the bees.

I also think any activity can help reach out and engaging new people.

I would be happy to help set it up. But it will only be one more flower in
the grand open space of the many institutions supporting the open space
around the world.


/Kári

On Mon, 19 Aug 2019, 22:38 Mark Carmel via OSList, <
oslist@lists.openspacetech.org> wrote:

> 1st of all thank you for everyone who gave me feedback on my big idea for
> certification. It was sincerely appreciated. However I can see it was
> something that did not  Resonate well.
>
> Open space technology has clearly set the standard for the facilitation of
> peace and human understanding. It is such a powerful and simple tool but
> highly complex. As Harrison says..  chaos plows the fields of the mind so
> that new ideas can grow... I think there is ample chaos for us to tackle
> right now.
>
> I think it is highly important for the leadership of our open space world
> to make a decision now while we still have Harrison among us as a living
> spirit. Because we have already set the standards why not cement the
> standards and turn it into an everlasting association that could be
> organized to deliver training, etc. To advance the mission of human peace
> and understanding in a more organized way?
>
> If you want to be a beautician or a mechanic or a rocket scientist or a
> city manager there are associations for that .
>
> Why not an association for open space technology practitioners to define
> the standards, the ethics, code of conduct, the way that Harrison has
> already articulated them, but to formalize them and help us get organized
> and stay organized until we get the job done?
>
> Respectfully submitted,
> Mark Carmel
>
>
> ___
> OSList mailing list
> To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org
> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
> Past archives can be viewed here:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
___
OSList mailing list
To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org
To unsubscribe send an email to oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org
To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
Past archives can be viewed here: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org

Re: [OSList] Okay...Forget Certification then...How about Co-Creating a NEW OST ASSOCIATION? Such as...THE International Association for Peace and Human Understanding...?

[Michael M Pannwitz via OSList]

Dear all,

my assumption regarding "organisation" is that they are the work of the 
devil.
They are omnipresent. There is practically nothing that can do without 
an "organisation". Government, churches, mafia, health care, schools, 
prisons, military, restaurants, foundations, associations, universities, 
concentration camps, secret service, sports, museums, shipyards, 
daycare, labour unions, political parties, courts, NGOs, NATO, ... you 
name it.

Thinking beyond "organisations" seems impossible.
Working for, in, against, with, through, in spite of, etc. 
"organisations" is omnipresent.

And to make things even worse, they all are selforganising, right?
And despite or because of their existence we have wars, starvation, 
pollution, glaciers disappearing, crime, corruption, you name it.
Now, organisations not created by the devil but lets say by God would 
not create such a mess.
One of the most lucrative businesses just about everywhere is 
consulting. Huge consulting firms work with/for/ect. huge businesses, 
governments, NGOs. Millions of folks work in that field helping them to 
become better, faster, etc. in the business they are involved in.


Now, is ost something that consulting firms are into?

There are some forms of "systems" such as neighborhoods, circles of 
friends, collegial counselling groups, OSonOS (local, regional, 
worldwide), people playing soccer with a tin can on a vacant lot, 
families, demonstrations (HongKong, Fridays for Future...), Stammtische...
I smile in such settings, happy myself, grow myself... in such 
"settings" and also frustrate myself now and then. Especially when 
"control" enters the stage.
And at some point many such "systems" or "settings" ossify when they 
take on the form of "organisations". In other words, the devil takes over.
Some of us smell that when it approaches and say "no". And move on or 
drop out or fight or...


Ok, this is stuff that comes up when I look at my "assumption" regarding 
"organisation".


I would like to hear more about your "assumptions" that come up when 
"organisation" enters your mind.


Greetings from Berlin
mmp



Am 20.08.2019 um 00:04 schrieb R Chaffe via OSList:

Chris,
I look forward to Mark’s reply to your question.  It seems to me that that the 
question mixes up the who and the what.  Mark uses a few examples including a 
mechanic, the first question I have is what experience the trade person has my 
second is an example of their work.  OST is at one level about the “how” the 
job is done and I think that is one level the question comes from.  Being able 
to Open Space and engage effectively with the sponsor and the community of 
concern is an other level again.

There is a level of trust between the sponsor and the facilitator that the 
result the sponsor wants will be delivered.  The sponsor might ask how did you 
do that? I suggest that they are more interested on what you as facilitator 
delivered based on the contract.

In many ways focusing on the how is counter productive the “what” is the thing 
that pays the bills and builds reputations.

If my thinking is correct the struggle is to define a professional facilitator 
who can deliver is the issue not what tools they use when it comes to a 
contract.

Regards
Rob


On 20 Aug 2019, at 2:31 am, Chris Corrigan via OSList 
 wrote:

Whenever I want to know if my work of Hosting an Open Space Technology meeting 
was useful, I give the participants a form that sinplay says “complete the 
following sentence. As a result of this meeting...”

The only people who should be judging the efficacy of an OST meeting are the 
people who called it in the first place to get their work done. In my 
experience, they are happy if the meeting has helped them.

My work is always directed towards client needs. Some times we do Open Space. 
Sometimes we do it in a way that would drive a “by the book” person crazy. But 
it’s about the clients. I doubt there is a way my process could be formalized 
in a way that works better for my clients than sitting down and listening to 
their needs.

There is already a network of Open Space Institutes who steward this practice. 
There is an international association of facilitators who can join if you want 
certification.

I find myself constantly wanting to defend this radical openness. Mark, what is 
behind your string desire for something more formal than what we already have?

Chris.


_
CHRIS CORRIGAN
www.chriscorrigan.com


On Aug 19, 2019, at 8:29 AM, Mark Carmel via OSList 
 wrote:

1st of all thank you for everyone who gave me feedback on my big idea for 
certification. It was sincerely appreciated. However I can see it was something 
that did not  Resonate well.

Open space technology has clearly set the standard for the facilitation of 
peace and human understanding. It is such a powerful and simple tool but highly 
complex. As Harrison says..  chaos plows the fields of the mind so that new 
ideas can grow... I think there is 

Re: [OSList] Okay...Forget Certification then...How about Co-Creating a NEW OST ASSOCIATION? Such as...THE International Association for Peace and Human Understanding...?

[R Chaffe via OSList]

Chris,
I look forward to Mark’s reply to your question.  It seems to me that that the 
question mixes up the who and the what.  Mark uses a few examples including a 
mechanic, the first question I have is what experience the trade person has my 
second is an example of their work.  OST is at one level about the “how” the 
job is done and I think that is one level the question comes from.  Being able 
to Open Space and engage effectively with the sponsor and the community of 
concern is an other level again.

There is a level of trust between the sponsor and the facilitator that the 
result the sponsor wants will be delivered.  The sponsor might ask how did you 
do that? I suggest that they are more interested on what you as facilitator 
delivered based on the contract.

In many ways focusing on the how is counter productive the “what” is the thing 
that pays the bills and builds reputations.

If my thinking is correct the struggle is to define a professional facilitator 
who can deliver is the issue not what tools they use when it comes to a 
contract.

Regards
Rob

> On 20 Aug 2019, at 2:31 am, Chris Corrigan via OSList 
>  wrote:
> 
> Whenever I want to know if my work of Hosting an Open Space Technology 
> meeting was useful, I give the participants a form that sinplay says 
> “complete the following sentence. As a result of this meeting...”
> 
> The only people who should be judging the efficacy of an OST meeting are the 
> people who called it in the first place to get their work done. In my 
> experience, they are happy if the meeting has helped them. 
> 
> My work is always directed towards client needs. Some times we do Open Space. 
> Sometimes we do it in a way that would drive a “by the book” person crazy. 
> But it’s about the clients. I doubt there is a way my process could be 
> formalized in a way that works better for my clients than sitting down and 
> listening to their needs. 
> 
> There is already a network of Open Space Institutes who steward this 
> practice. There is an international association of facilitators who can join 
> if you want certification. 
> 
> I find myself constantly wanting to defend this radical openness. Mark, what 
> is behind your string desire for something more formal than what we already 
> have?
> 
> Chris. 
> 
> 
> _
> CHRIS CORRIGAN
> www.chriscorrigan.com
> 
>> On Aug 19, 2019, at 8:29 AM, Mark Carmel via OSList 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 1st of all thank you for everyone who gave me feedback on my big idea for 
>> certification. It was sincerely appreciated. However I can see it was 
>> something that did not  Resonate well.
>> 
>> Open space technology has clearly set the standard for the facilitation of 
>> peace and human understanding. It is such a powerful and simple tool but 
>> highly complex. As Harrison says..  chaos plows the fields of the mind so 
>> that new ideas can grow... I think there is ample chaos for us to tackle 
>> right now.
>> 
>> I think it is highly important for the leadership of our open space world to 
>> make a decision now while we still have Harrison among us as a living 
>> spirit. Because we have already set the standards why not cement the 
>> standards and turn it into an everlasting association that could be 
>> organized to deliver training, etc. To advance the mission of human peace 
>> and understanding in a more organized way?
>> 
>> If you want to be a beautician or a mechanic or a rocket scientist or a city 
>> manager there are associations for that .
>> 
>> Why not an association for open space technology practitioners to define the 
>> standards, the ethics, code of conduct, the way that Harrison has already 
>> articulated them, but to formalize them and help us get organized and stay 
>> organized until we get the job done?
>> 
>> Respectfully submitted,
>> Mark Carmel
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> OSList mailing list
>> To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org
>> To unsubscribe send an email to oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org
>> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
>> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
>> Past archives can be viewed here: 
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
> ___
> OSList mailing list
> To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org
> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
> Past archives can be viewed here: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
___
OSList mailing list
To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org
To unsubscribe send an email to oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org
To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: