Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin]

2006-09-13 Thread Holger Nauheimer (Change Facilitation)
Hi,

I visited the Dropping Knowledge (dk) event and then followed major parts 
through the Internet. This is what I found:

1. Wow! The organization of the dk event was more than remarkable. I have 
never seen something like that before. The great Bebelplatz in Berlin, 
which is dedicated to the Buecherverbrennung of the Nazis (burning of 
books), with a round table hosting an assembly of 112 very different 
people, from the Amazon jungle to the top of world executive consulting, 
dissidents, ex-politicians, weird artists, etc. Everybody with an 
individual camera focused on them. Then the choreography and the 
strictness of the two wonderful moderators - a female Nigerian activist 
and great William Dafoe) - stunning, amazing. All organized by a German 
maniac who collected millions of sponsor money. Chapeau! And then, all in 
real time in the Internet (well, you couldn't see all 112 answers to the 
100 questions, but a good slice). I remember the Philippine representative 
of native folks who started his replies with a traditional song, or our 
great German movie director, Wim Wenders, who just replied on one 
question - you'd better ask someone else, I'm not the expert for this.

2. Many of the answers on burning questions (Is corporate ethical 
behavior possible? What if all Chinese want a car?  How can we stop 
war?, etc.) brought me, however, somehow into the mood to ask myself -
 Are they really experts. A lot of old, left-winguish statements, which 
reminded me of the discussion we had in Europe 30 years ago. Maybe they 
are still relevant, but not really innovative. So, it was not the answers 
that excited me, but the process. And dk is continuing in the sense 
that everybody is an expert. Everybody can raise questions, and 
everybody can give answers. 

3. I hope it will become a movement. It is not Open Space, but it is large 
scale, maybe rather comparable to America Speaks, or to World Café. I 
want to follow it up, support it, critisize it, but definitely see as an 
ally in the process of mobilization of people. And the mastery of modern 
technology is certainly something which gives an example how large scale 
can become global scale. Watch it out!

Love and peace,
Holger Nauheimer

Change Facilitation s.r.o.
http://www.change-facilitation.org
Global Network for Exploring, Creating, and Celebrating Change.

Now available:
The Audio Version of The Change Management Toolbook
http://www.change-management-toolbook.com/res/audio.html

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Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin]

2006-09-13 Thread Holger Nauheimer (Change Facilitation)
Hi Juliane,

yes, the meeting at Bebelplatz seemed to be boring on a superficial 
level, but I felt a sacred space. I know that a lot of peopls complained 
about the separateness of the speakers from the crowd. But clearly, the 
setup, bringing these 112 folks together, didn't allow for another 
choreography, for more physical closeness. Mind you, there was a security 
issue as well - many of these people that were present are certainly on 
the target list of their secret services back home, let alone CIA, Mossad, 
what have you. The alternative is no alternative - to put them into a 
closed space, with lots of bodyguards.

I reiterate - the significant event did not take place on the Bebelplatz, 
the round table was just the symbol of the process, an earthen symbol 
of the world speaks. What was striking was the real life thingy on the 
web, followed by tens of thousands of people simultanously. 

As consultants we always say that a question is an intervention. These 
were 11200 interventions into the global system - this should have a 
butterfly effect, or not? and by the way, I love people who live their 
dreams, like the guy who set that whole thing up and found sponsors (very 
controversial, indeed, the main sponsor being Allianz Versicherungen).

The technology worked until afternoon, I was preparing my best Bolognese 
ever and had my laptop with speakers in the kitchen to watch it. Don't 
know whether the technology broke down, but this is rather a challenge for 
understanding how technology can benefit communication in the Global 
Village, and for how to improve. I am looking forward to see all the 11200 
statements on the Web.

What was the motto? Once you have seen it, it can't be unseen. (or 
something like that)

Disfruta Argentina, carinosa Juliana.

Un fuerte abrazo,
Holger

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Re: [Fwd: Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin]

2006-09-06 Thread Dr. Christian M. Kemper

Dear Juliane,
a year ago when I first heard about this idea I met the people behind a few
times and also proposed using the money for another meeting design. Well,
they and the main sponsor (Allianz insurance) wanted to keep the control...
;-)
Hope that your efforts have more success than mine :-)
Blessings,
Chris


2006/9/5, juliane neumann lia...@web.de:


Hi Funda,

today we had our stammtisch in Berlin and we discussed of course this
interesting meeting and there were some people ready to attend the meeting
and propose to the organizers an open space for their next event- with the
money they are used to spend they can do something big. will keep you
informed about their answer.

cheers,

Juliane


Viren-Scan für Ihren PC! Jetzt für jeden. Sofort, online und kostenlos.
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58 43, +49 174 921 66 11, kemper.christ...@googlemail.com

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Re: [Fwd: Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin]

2006-09-06 Thread Michael M Pannwitz
Yesterday there were some more details about the gathering (page 3 of 
the local part of the paper), today nothing, but I am sure there will be 
 more on the day itself.

More details_
-there will be 112 Weise (translation?)
-there will be 100, still secret questions selected by a polling with 
final decision with the organizers (Allianz control...for those of you 
who wonder what Allianz is, probably one of the worlds largest insurance 
firms...they earn their money by betting that I will live long and me 
betting that I will die soon, the odds are on their side)
-for each question there will be 3 minutes to answer (so it will take 
300 minutes, 6 hours plus breaks)
-each question is answered by all 112 simultaneously in their 
mothertongues (entered into 112 microphones and filmed by 112 cameras)
-the onlookers will hear almost none of this, just a murmur of 112 
people speaking simultaneously...

-two people are in the center of the arrangement and read the questions

Apart from being a fairly odd setting with no communication between the 
112 or them and the crowd watching the name chosen for the setting 
Runder Tisch demonstrates, at least for Germans and especially 
Berliners the political insensitivity and historical disconnectednes of 
this show. Runder Tisch was the setting between the Fall of the Wall 
and reunification where people of all walks of life gathered and worked 
on developing a culture of democratic dialogue and decision making in 
the newly emerging Germany.


For the TAZ, a fairly critical paper, unlike the TS which I read 
(burgeois), the whole show is a monstrous advertising campaign for 
Allianz with a lot of glitz and technology...


Greetings from Berlin
mmp

Dr. Christian M. Kemper wrote:

Dear Juliane,
a year ago when I first heard about this idea I met the people behind a 
few times and also proposed using the money for another meeting design. 
Well, they and the main sponsor (Allianz insurance) wanted to keep the 
control... ;-)

Hope that your efforts have more success than mine :-)
Blessings,
Chris


2006/9/5, juliane neumann lia...@web.de mailto:lia...@web.de:

Hi Funda,

today we had our stammtisch in Berlin and we discussed of course
this interesting meeting and there were some people ready to
attend the meeting and propose to the organizers an open space for
their next event- with the money they are used to spend they can do
something big. will keep you informed about their answer.

cheers,

Juliane



Viren-Scan für Ihren PC! Jetzt für jeden. Sofort, online und
kostenlos.   
Gleich testen! *http://www.pc-sicherheit.web.de/freescan/?mc=02*  


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922 58 43, +49 174 921 66 11, kemper.christ...@googlemail.com 
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Re: [Fwd: Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin]

2006-09-06 Thread Funda Oral

Hi Chris it's nice to hear from you.

Michael, having read all these i still want to imagine that an open space 
meeting

would be possible there, sometime.

If  it was an OST meeting,  many people would tell that it was a show, but 
still

it would have been a better show.

With the same money, they would be able to do many more ost meetings and 
better

publicity.

Juliane, Chris, Michael, and everybody,

It's wonderful to discuss this event with you here in the OSList,
to be able to create a global discussion here.

Funda

- Original Message - 
From: Michael M Pannwitz mmpa...@boscop.de

To: osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu
Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 12:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin]


Yesterday there were some more details about the gathering (page 3 of the 
local part of the paper), today nothing, but I am sure there will be more 
on the day itself.

More details_
-there will be 112 Weise (translation?)
-there will be 100, still secret questions selected by a polling with 
final decision with the organizers (Allianz control...for those of you who 
wonder what Allianz is, probably one of the worlds largest insurance 
firms...they earn their money by betting that I will live long and me 
betting that I will die soon, the odds are on their side)
-for each question there will be 3 minutes to answer (so it will take 300 
minutes, 6 hours plus breaks)
-each question is answered by all 112 simultaneously in their 
mothertongues (entered into 112 microphones and filmed by 112 cameras)
-the onlookers will hear almost none of this, just a murmur of 112 people 
speaking simultaneously...

-two people are in the center of the arrangement and read the questions

Apart from being a fairly odd setting with no communication between the 
112 or them and the crowd watching the name chosen for the setting Runder 
Tisch demonstrates, at least for Germans and especially Berliners the 
political insensitivity and historical disconnectednes of this show. 
Runder Tisch was the setting between the Fall of the Wall and 
reunification where people of all walks of life gathered and worked on 
developing a culture of democratic dialogue and decision making in the 
newly emerging Germany.


For the TAZ, a fairly critical paper, unlike the TS which I read 
(burgeois), the whole show is a monstrous advertising campaign for Allianz 
with a lot of glitz and technology...


Greetings from Berlin
mmp

Dr. Christian M. Kemper wrote:

Dear Juliane,
a year ago when I first heard about this idea I met the people behind a 
few times and also proposed using the money for another meeting design. 
Well, they and the main sponsor (Allianz insurance) wanted to keep the 
control... ;-)

Hope that your efforts have more success than mine :-)
Blessings,
Chris


2006/9/5, juliane neumann lia...@web.de mailto:lia...@web.de:

Hi Funda,

today we had our stammtisch in Berlin and we discussed of course
this interesting meeting and there were some people ready to
attend the meeting and propose to the organizers an open space for
their next event- with the money they are used to spend they can do
something big. will keep you informed about their answer.

cheers,

Juliane



Viren-Scan für Ihren PC! Jetzt für jeden. Sofort, online und
kostenlos.   Gleich testen! 
*http://www.pc-sicherheit.web.de/freescan/?mc=02*  * * 
==

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Re: [Fwd: Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin]

2006-09-05 Thread juliane neumann


Hi Funda,

today we had our stammtisch in Berlin and we discussed of course this 
interesting meeting and there were some people ready to attend the meeting 
and propose to the organizers an open space for their next event- with the 
money they are used to spend they can do something big. will keep you informed 
about their answer.

cheers,

Juliane



Viren-Scan für Ihren PC! Jetzt für jeden. Sofort, online und kostenlos. 
Gleich testen! *http://www.pc-sicherheit.web.de/freescan/?mc=02* 
[http://www.pc-sicherheit.web.de/freescan/?mc=02]

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Re: [Fwd: Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin]

2006-09-05 Thread Funda Oral
so happy to hear that, wonderful!, looking fwd hearing what would happen after 
that.
thanks juliane
chhers,
funda 
  - Original Message - 
  From: juliane neumann 
  To: osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu 
  Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 3:20 AM
  Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin]


  Hi Funda,

  today we had our stammtisch in Berlin and we discussed of course this 
interesting meeting and there were some people ready to attend the meeting 
and propose to the organizers an open space for their next event- with the 
money they are used to spend they can do something big. will keep you informed 
about their answer.

  cheers,

  Juliane



   
Viren-Scan für Ihren PC! Jetzt für jeden. Sofort, online und kostenlos. 
  
Gleich testen! http://www.pc-sicherheit.web.de/freescan/?mc=02   
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Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin

2006-09-04 Thread Chris Macrae
Yes its very interesting and the guy behind it designs extraoridnary community 
experiments
anyone going to be there; I would love to know if there's going to be a 
network beyond the event of the largest brainstrust ever to sit round a 
European Square if not a worldwide one



Previously Nominees For 100 World Changemakers http://worldcitizen.tv nominates
Dr. Ceasar L. McDowell,
Berlin Global Town Hall Event http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14216322/ 
The Web site dropping knowledge is sponsoring the thought summit, which will 
bring together 112 artists, scientists, philosophers and others near 
Bebelplatz Square, site of Nazi book burnings in 1933.
They include Harry Wu, the dissident held by the Chinese government in 1995 
before being expelled from China; Oscar Olivera, a Bolivian anti-globalization 
activist; the German filmmaker Wim Wenders; and Bill Joy, former Sun 
Microsystems chief scientist and now a venture capitalist. 
Actor Willem Dafoe will pose the questions to the panelists, who will gather 
around a massive table to discuss topics from national security to personal 
values, racism to environmental concerns. 
The Berlin event will be the first public meeting of what its creators 
envision as a global town hall meant to allow the common person to participate 
in a discussion of international issues.
“We're launching what we think will be an infrastructure for a global 
community of citizens,” said Dr. Ceasar L. McDowell, dropping knowledge's U.S. 
director of operations, in an interview from Berlin. “There's a need to have 
something that allows people to share their knowledge with each other on a 
platform that's not controlled by an interest group or a government, with no 
one trying to drive an issue.” 
 
He coordinates deep community projects out of MIT  
http://crcp.mit.edu/subhead.php?id=30tab=13  
Center for Reflective Community Practice
Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Building 7, Room 307
77 Massachusetts Avenue
Cambridge, MA 02139

Ceasar L. McDowell, Ed.D. is Associate Professor of the Practice of Community 
Development at MIT and Director of the Center for Reflective Community 
Practice, where he is also Co-Director of the Community Innovation Lab. His 
interests include the use of mass media in promoting democracy, the education 
of urban students, the organizing of urban communities, civil rights history, 
peacemaking and conflict resolution, and testing and test policy. 

Dr. McDowell has extensive experience in the area of public engagement, and 
the design and conduct of civic conversations that create opportunities for 
individuals from minority and poor communities to be included in a cross-
generational and cross-racial public discourse. He serves as chairperson of 
The Algebra Project, was co-founder of The Civil Rights Forum, and served as 
Senior Researcher for the National Commission on Testing and Public Policy. 
Dr. McDowell has been an advisor to several national foundations and was a 
1991 W. K. Kellogg National Leadership Fellow. 


Quoting Harrison Owen hho...@adelphia.net:

 OK Funda. You are indeed the mystery woman. No more mysterious than now. . .
 What interesting meeting in Berlin
 
 ho
 Harrison Owen
 7808 River Falls Dr.
 Potomac, MD  20854
 USA
 301-365-2093
 207-763-3261 (summer)
 website www.openspaceworld.com
 Personal Website www.ho-image.com
 
   - Original Message - 
   From: Funda Oral 
   To: osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu 
   Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 4:21 PM
   Subject: an interesting meeting in Berlin
 
 
   http://www.droppingknowledge.org/
   * * ==
 




Quoting Harrison Owen hho...@adelphia.net:

 OK Funda. You are indeed the mystery woman. No more mysterious than now. . .
 What interesting meeting in Berlin
 
 ho
 Harrison Owen
 7808 River Falls Dr.
 Potomac, MD  20854
 USA
 301-365-2093
 207-763-3261 (summer)
 website www.openspaceworld.com
 Personal Website www.ho-image.com
 
   - Original Message - 
   From: Funda Oral 
   To: osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu 
   Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 4:21 PM
   Subject: an interesting meeting in Berlin
 
 
   http://www.droppingknowledge.org/
   * * ==
 osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu -- To subscribe,
 unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of
 osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu:
 http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about
 OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
 
 *
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Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin

2006-09-04 Thread avner
It just happens when I am there for sew days. Due to the last events in my 
country I have some urgent questions to ask them


Avner Haramati
Jerusalem


- Original Message - 
From: Chris Macrae wcbn...@easynet.co.uk

To: osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu
Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 2:10 AM
Subject: Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin


Yes its very interesting and the guy behind it designs extraoridnary 
community

experiments
anyone going to be there; I would love to know if there's going to be a
network beyond the event of the largest brainstrust ever to sit round a
European Square if not a worldwide one



Previously Nominees For 100 World Changemakers http://worldcitizen.tv 
nominates

Dr. Ceasar L. McDowell,
Berlin Global Town Hall Event http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14216322/
The Web site dropping knowledge is sponsoring the thought summit, which 
will

bring together 112 artists, scientists, philosophers and others near
Bebelplatz Square, site of Nazi book burnings in 1933.
They include Harry Wu, the dissident held by the Chinese government in 
1995
before being expelled from China; Oscar Olivera, a Bolivian 
anti-globalization

activist; the German filmmaker Wim Wenders; and Bill Joy, former Sun
Microsystems chief scientist and now a venture capitalist.
Actor Willem Dafoe will pose the questions to the panelists, who will 
gather
around a massive table to discuss topics from national security to 
personal

values, racism to environmental concerns.
The Berlin event will be the first public meeting of what its creators
envision as a global town hall meant to allow the common person to 
participate

in a discussion of international issues.
We're launching what we think will be an infrastructure for a global
community of citizens, said Dr. Ceasar L. McDowell, dropping knowledge's 
U.S.
director of operations, in an interview from Berlin. There's a need to 
have

something that allows people to share their knowledge with each other on a
platform that's not controlled by an interest group or a government, with 
no

one trying to drive an issue.

He coordinates deep community projects out of MIT
http://crcp.mit.edu/subhead.php?id=30tab=13
Center for Reflective Community Practice
Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Building 7, Room 307
77 Massachusetts Avenue
Cambridge, MA 02139

Ceasar L. McDowell, Ed.D. is Associate Professor of the Practice of 
Community

Development at MIT and Director of the Center for Reflective Community
Practice, where he is also Co-Director of the Community Innovation Lab. 
His
interests include the use of mass media in promoting democracy, the 
education
of urban students, the organizing of urban communities, civil rights 
history,

peacemaking and conflict resolution, and testing and test policy.

Dr. McDowell has extensive experience in the area of public engagement, 
and
the design and conduct of civic conversations that create opportunities 
for

individuals from minority and poor communities to be included in a cross-
generational and cross-racial public discourse. He serves as chairperson 
of
The Algebra Project, was co-founder of The Civil Rights Forum, and served 
as
Senior Researcher for the National Commission on Testing and Public 
Policy.

Dr. McDowell has been an advisor to several national foundations and was a
1991 W. K. Kellogg National Leadership Fellow.


Quoting Harrison Owen hho...@adelphia.net:

OK Funda. You are indeed the mystery woman. No more mysterious than now. 
. .

What interesting meeting in Berlin

ho
Harrison Owen
7808 River Falls Dr.
Potomac, MD  20854
USA
301-365-2093
207-763-3261 (summer)
website www.openspaceworld.com
Personal Website www.ho-image.com

  - Original Message - 
  From: Funda Oral

  To: osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu
  Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 4:21 PM
  Subject: an interesting meeting in Berlin


  http://www.droppingknowledge.org/
  * * ==





Quoting Harrison Owen hho...@adelphia.net:

OK Funda. You are indeed the mystery woman. No more mysterious than now. 
. .

What interesting meeting in Berlin

ho
Harrison Owen
7808 River Falls Dr.
Potomac, MD  20854
USA
301-365-2093
207-763-3261 (summer)
website www.openspaceworld.com
Personal Website www.ho-image.com

  - Original Message - 
  From: Funda Oral

  To: osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu
  Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 4:21 PM
  Subject: an interesting meeting in Berlin


  http://www.droppingknowledge.org/
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Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin

2006-09-04 Thread Funda Oral
Harrison, please go to the following web site and you will see 

http://www.droppingknowledge.org/

I would like to organize such a big OS event for your visit to Istanbul. 

Funda


  - Original Message - 
  From: Harrison Owen 
  To: osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu 
  Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 1:44 AM
  Subject: Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin


  OK Funda. You are indeed the mystery woman. No more mysterious than now. . 
. What interesting meeting in Berlin

  ho
  Harrison Owen
  7808 River Falls Dr.
  Potomac, MD  20854
  USA
  301-365-2093
  207-763-3261 (summer)
  website www.openspaceworld.com
  Personal Website www.ho-image.com

- Original Message - 
From: Funda Oral 
To: osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu 
Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 4:21 PM
Subject: an interesting meeting in Berlin


http://www.droppingknowledge.org/
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Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin

2006-09-04 Thread Joelle Lyons Everett
Avner--

I'm glad you will be there, asking your urgent questions!

Best wishes,

Joelle

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[Fwd: Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin]

2006-09-04 Thread Michael M Pannwitz

Dear list,
yesterday, I did send the note below to ho who had not discovered the 
link and entered my esteemed opinion on this project.
Its in the local Berlin paper again today with a long report on how they 
are creating two setups, one indoor for rain and one outdoor for sunny 
weather...its quite a huge table coated with a very fancy and expensive 
material that can also be written on...they have already approached the 
Guinness Book of World Records for the largest round table ever...and I 
wouldnt be surprised if they cut it up in pieces and auction it off as 
they did with other local objects like the Berlin Walland, of 
course, there is going to be a video where you can see all of them 
simultaneously answering questions...


To me this is a good example for the paradigm Experts solve Problems 
(Taylor, Scientific management)which dominated the art between 1900 and 
1950, followed by a phase of Everybody solves Problems (Group Problem 
Solving, Lewin etc.) which in recent years, under the influence of 
Systems Thinking, has been changing since 1965 into Experts improve 
whole systems and, more recently, with the development of approaches 
such as Open Space, Future Search, etc., into Everybody improves whole 
systems.
I dont think that an approach long shown to be useless for the 
challenges we are facing now improves through technology that makes it 
available instantaneously, worldwide...
Still, its a fascinating show that definitely is marketed in an 
effective mode...

So, for me its back to practicing Open Space Technology!
Greetings from Berlin
mmp



 Original Message 
Subject: Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin
Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 01:18:25 +0200
From: Michael M Pannwitz mmpa...@boscop.de
To: Harrison Owen hho...@verizon.net
References: 00ec01c6cf96$7c0ba5e0$0201a8c0@fundao0ngpntt7 
002601c6cfaa$86112ba0$b2f13018@holaptop


click on the link she supplied, its a little hard to see for old men like me
it was in the local Berlin paper today and I consider it to be a
fabulous piece of bullshit,
especially since they definitely forgot to include THIS
great mind
Tables have been out for some time...
Greetings from Berlin
mmp

Harrison Owen wrote:
OK Funda. You are indeed the mystery woman. No more mysterious than 
now. . . What interesting meeting in Berlin
 
ho

Harrison Owen
7808 River Falls Dr.
Potomac, MD  20854
USA
301-365-2093
207-763-3261 (summer)
website www.openspaceworld.com http://www.openspaceworld.com
Personal Website www.ho-image.com http://www.ho-image.com

- Original Message -
*From:* Funda Oral mailto:fundao...@ttnet.net.tr
*To:* osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu
mailto:osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu
*Sent:* Sunday, September 03, 2006 4:21 PM
*Subject:* an interesting meeting in Berlin

http://www.droppingknowledge.org/
* * ==
osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu
mailto:osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu
-- To subscribe, unsubscribe, change
your options, view the archives of osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu
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http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about
OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist 

* * == 
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subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of 
osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu: 
http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about 
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*
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Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin]

2006-09-04 Thread Harrison Owen
Thanks to my increasing myopia (doubtless due to sins past and present) I did 
in fact miss the URL. small print! is the root of all evil!! But I love you 
Funda!!!

And Michael -- you captured my feeling exactly when it come to events like 
this. Doubtless it will be a marvelous show, but as an advance of real 
knowledge, and more importantly the application of that knowledge, I rather 
think it will come up short. The Expert Syndrome one more time. Old joke 
about the definition of expert -- a has been under pressure. Some truth 
there, I think.

Harrison

Harrison Owen
7808 River Falls Dr.
Potomac, MD  20854
USA
301-365-2093
207-763-3261 (summer)
website www.openspaceworld.com
Personal Website www.ho-image.com

  - Original Message - 
  From: Michael M Pannwitz 
  To: osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu 
  Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 4:12 AM
  Subject: [Fwd: Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin]


  Dear list,
  yesterday, I did send the note below to ho who had not discovered the 
  link and entered my esteemed opinion on this project.
  Its in the local Berlin paper again today with a long report on how they 
  are creating two setups, one indoor for rain and one outdoor for sunny 
  weather...its quite a huge table coated with a very fancy and expensive 
  material that can also be written on...they have already approached the 
  Guinness Book of World Records for the largest round table ever...and I 
  wouldnt be surprised if they cut it up in pieces and auction it off as 
  they did with other local objects like the Berlin Walland, of 
  course, there is going to be a video where you can see all of them 
  simultaneously answering questions...

  To me this is a good example for the paradigm Experts solve Problems 
  (Taylor, Scientific management)which dominated the art between 1900 and 
  1950, followed by a phase of Everybody solves Problems (Group Problem 
  Solving, Lewin etc.) which in recent years, under the influence of 
  Systems Thinking, has been changing since 1965 into Experts improve 
  whole systems and, more recently, with the development of approaches 
  such as Open Space, Future Search, etc., into Everybody improves whole 
  systems.
  I dont think that an approach long shown to be useless for the 
  challenges we are facing now improves through technology that makes it 
  available instantaneously, worldwide...
  Still, its a fascinating show that definitely is marketed in an 
  effective mode...
  So, for me its back to practicing Open Space Technology!
  Greetings from Berlin
  mmp



   Original Message 
  Subject: Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin
  Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 01:18:25 +0200
  From: Michael M Pannwitz mmpa...@boscop.de
  To: Harrison Owen hho...@verizon.net
  References: 00ec01c6cf96$7c0ba5e0$0201a8c0@fundao0ngpntt7 
  002601c6cfaa$86112ba0$b2f13018@holaptop

  click on the link she supplied, its a little hard to see for old men like me
  it was in the local Berlin paper today and I consider it to be a
  fabulous piece of bullshit,
  especially since they definitely forgot to include THIS
  great mind
  Tables have been out for some time...
  Greetings from Berlin
  mmp

  Harrison Owen wrote:
   OK Funda. You are indeed the mystery woman. No more mysterious than 
   now. . . What interesting meeting in Berlin

   ho
   Harrison Owen
   7808 River Falls Dr.
   Potomac, MD  20854
   USA
   301-365-2093
   207-763-3261 (summer)
   website www.openspaceworld.com http://www.openspaceworld.com
   Personal Website www.ho-image.com http://www.ho-image.com
   
   - Original Message -
   *From:* Funda Oral mailto:fundao...@ttnet.net.tr
   *To:* osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu
   mailto:osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu
   *Sent:* Sunday, September 03, 2006 4:21 PM
   *Subject:* an interesting meeting in Berlin
   
   http://www.droppingknowledge.org/
   * * ==
   osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu
   mailto:osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu
   -- To subscribe, unsubscribe, change
   your options, view the archives of osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu
   mailto:osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu:
   http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about
   OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
   http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist 
   
   * * == 
   osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu -- To 
   subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of 
   osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu: 
   http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about 
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  *
  *
  ==
  osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu
  --
  To subscribe, unsubscribe

Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin]

2006-09-04 Thread Funda Oral
Harrison, i love you too,

Michael, i agree with you and with Harrison,

But, the show must go on!

I wish this meeting was an OS meeting whether with or without experts.

Funda
 
  - Original Message - 
  From: Harrison Owen 
  To: osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu 
  Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 3:44 PM
  Subject: Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin]


  Thanks to my increasing myopia (doubtless due to sins past and present) I did 
in fact miss the URL. small print! is the root of all evil!! But I love you 
Funda!!!

  And Michael -- you captured my feeling exactly when it come to events like 
this. Doubtless it will be a marvelous show, but as an advance of real 
knowledge, and more importantly the application of that knowledge, I rather 
think it will come up short. The Expert Syndrome one more time. Old joke 
about the definition of expert -- a has been under pressure. Some truth 
there, I think.

  Harrison

  Harrison Owen
  7808 River Falls Dr.
  Potomac, MD  20854
  USA
  301-365-2093
  207-763-3261 (summer)
  website www.openspaceworld.com
  Personal Website www.ho-image.com

- Original Message - 
From: Michael M Pannwitz 
To: osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu 
Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 4:12 AM
Subject: [Fwd: Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin]


Dear list,
yesterday, I did send the note below to ho who had not discovered the 
link and entered my esteemed opinion on this project.
Its in the local Berlin paper again today with a long report on how they 
are creating two setups, one indoor for rain and one outdoor for sunny 
weather...its quite a huge table coated with a very fancy and expensive 
material that can also be written on...they have already approached the 
Guinness Book of World Records for the largest round table ever...and I 
wouldnt be surprised if they cut it up in pieces and auction it off as 
they did with other local objects like the Berlin Walland, of 
course, there is going to be a video where you can see all of them 
simultaneously answering questions...

To me this is a good example for the paradigm Experts solve Problems 
(Taylor, Scientific management)which dominated the art between 1900 and 
1950, followed by a phase of Everybody solves Problems (Group Problem 
Solving, Lewin etc.) which in recent years, under the influence of 
Systems Thinking, has been changing since 1965 into Experts improve 
whole systems and, more recently, with the development of approaches 
such as Open Space, Future Search, etc., into Everybody improves whole 
systems.
I dont think that an approach long shown to be useless for the 
challenges we are facing now improves through technology that makes it 
available instantaneously, worldwide...
Still, its a fascinating show that definitely is marketed in an 
effective mode...
So, for me its back to practicing Open Space Technology!
Greetings from Berlin
mmp



 Original Message 
Subject: Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin
Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 01:18:25 +0200
From: Michael M Pannwitz mmpa...@boscop.de
To: Harrison Owen hho...@verizon.net
References: 00ec01c6cf96$7c0ba5e0$0201a8c0@fundao0ngpntt7 
002601c6cfaa$86112ba0$b2f13018@holaptop

click on the link she supplied, its a little hard to see for old men like me
it was in the local Berlin paper today and I consider it to be a
fabulous piece of bullshit,
especially since they definitely forgot to include THIS
great mind
Tables have been out for some time...
Greetings from Berlin
mmp

Harrison Owen wrote:
 OK Funda. You are indeed the mystery woman. No more mysterious than 
 now. . . What interesting meeting in Berlin
  
 ho
 Harrison Owen
 7808 River Falls Dr.
 Potomac, MD  20854
 USA
 301-365-2093
 207-763-3261 (summer)
 website www.openspaceworld.com http://www.openspaceworld.com
 Personal Website www.ho-image.com http://www.ho-image.com
 
 - Original Message -
 *From:* Funda Oral mailto:fundao...@ttnet.net.tr
 *To:* osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu
 mailto:osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu
 *Sent:* Sunday, September 03, 2006 4:21 PM
 *Subject:* an interesting meeting in Berlin
 
 http://www.droppingknowledge.org/
 * * ==
 osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu
 mailto:osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu
 -- To subscribe, unsubscribe, change
 your options, view the archives of osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu
 mailto:osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu:
 http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about
 OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
 http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist

Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin]

2006-09-04 Thread Michael M Pannwitz

believe it or not
in ost-meetings
we all is experts
mmp

Funda Oral wrote:

Harrison, i love you too,
 
Michael, i agree with you and with Harrison,
 
But, the show must go on!
 
I wish this meeting was an OS meeting whether with or without experts.
 
Funda
 


- Original Message -
*From:* Harrison Owen mailto:hho...@adelphia.net
*To:* osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu
mailto:osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu
*Sent:* Monday, September 04, 2006 3:44 PM
*Subject:* Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin]

Thanks to my increasing myopia (doubtless due to sins past and
present) I did in fact miss the URL. small print! is the root of all
evil!! But I love you Funda!!!
 
And Michael -- you captured my feeling exactly when it come to

events like this. Doubtless it will be a marvelous show, but as an
advance of real knowledge, and more importantly the application of
that knowledge, I rather think it will come up short. The Expert
Syndrome one more time. Old joke about the definition of expert
-- a has been under pressure. Some truth there, I think.
 
Harrison
 
Harrison Owen

7808 River Falls Dr.
Potomac, MD  20854
USA
301-365-2093
207-763-3261 (summer)
website www.openspaceworld.com http://www.openspaceworld.com
Personal Website www.ho-image.com http://www.ho-image.com

- Original Message -
*From:* Michael M Pannwitz mailto:mmpa...@boscop.de
*To:* osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu
mailto:osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu
*Sent:* Monday, September 04, 2006 4:12 AM
*Subject:* [Fwd: Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin]

Dear list,
yesterday, I did send the note below to ho who had not
discovered the
link and entered my esteemed opinion on this project.
Its in the local Berlin paper again today with a long report on
how they
are creating two setups, one indoor for rain and one outdoor for
sunny
weather...its quite a huge table coated with a very fancy and
expensive
material that can also be written on...they have already
approached the
Guinness Book of World Records for the largest round table
ever...and I
wouldnt be surprised if they cut it up in pieces and auction it
off as
they did with other local objects like the Berlin Walland, of
course, there is going to be a video where you can see all of them
simultaneously answering questions...

To me this is a good example for the paradigm Experts solve
Problems
(Taylor, Scientific management)which dominated the art between
1900 and
1950, followed by a phase of Everybody solves Problems (Group
Problem
Solving, Lewin etc.) which in recent years, under the influence of
Systems Thinking, has been changing since 1965 into Experts
improve
whole systems and, more recently, with the development of
approaches
such as Open Space, Future Search, etc., into Everybody
improves whole
systems.
I dont think that an approach long shown to be useless for the
challenges we are facing now improves through technology that
makes it
available instantaneously, worldwide...
Still, its a fascinating show that definitely is marketed in an
effective mode...
So, for me its back to practicing Open Space Technology!
Greetings from Berlin
mmp



 Original Message 
Subject: Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin
Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 01:18:25 +0200
From: Michael M Pannwitz mmpa...@boscop.de
mailto:mmpa...@boscop.de
To: Harrison Owen hho...@verizon.net mailto:hho...@verizon.net
References: 00ec01c6cf96$7c0ba5e0$0201a8c0@fundao0ngpntt7
mailto:00ec01c6cf96$7c0ba5e0$0201a8c0@fundao0ngpntt7
002601c6cfaa$86112ba0$b2f13018@holaptop
mailto:002601c6cfaa$86112ba0$b2f13018@holaptop

click on the link she supplied, its a little hard to see for old
men like me
it was in the local Berlin paper today and I consider it to be a
fabulous piece of bullshit,
especially since they definitely forgot to include THIS
great mind
Tables have been out for some time...
Greetings from Berlin
mmp

Harrison Owen wrote:
  OK Funda. You are indeed the mystery woman. No more
mysterious than
  now. . . What interesting meeting in Berlin
  
  ho

  Harrison Owen
  7808 River Falls Dr.
  Potomac, MD  20854
  USA
  301-365-2093
  207-763-3261 (summer)
  website www.openspaceworld.com
http://www.openspaceworld.com http://www.openspaceworld.com
  Personal Website

Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin]

2006-09-04 Thread Nancy Weatherhead
I understand the bias here against 'experts'. but most of the 'experts' I
have met are fully aware of their own lack of ability to answer all
questions and would only choose to call themselves an expert in a certain
area/field of living. and.. I do not see this word being used here. I also
see that this is yet another forum that is looking for input from a wide
variety and cross section of people from all countries and areas of
'expertise'.  Perhaps if you can look beyond a form that is not of your
choosing you could find some value here?

 

Nancy

See with an open heart, hear with an open mind.

  _  

From: OSLIST [mailto:osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu] On Behalf Of Harrison
Owen
Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 9:44 AM
To: osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu
Subject: Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin]

 

Thanks to my increasing myopia (doubtless due to sins past and present) I
did in fact miss the URL. small print! is the root of all evil!! But I love
you Funda!!!

 

And Michael -- you captured my feeling exactly when it come to events like
this. Doubtless it will be a marvelous show, but as an advance of real
knowledge, and more importantly the application of that knowledge, I rather
think it will come up short. The Expert Syndrome one more time. Old joke
about the definition of expert -- a has been under pressure. Some truth
there, I think.

 

Harrison

 

Harrison Owen
7808 River Falls Dr.
Potomac, MD  20854
USA
301-365-2093
207-763-3261 (summer)
website www.openspaceworld.com
Personal Website www.ho-image.com

- Original Message - 

From: Michael M Pannwitz mailto:mmpa...@boscop.de  

To: osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu 

Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 4:12 AM

Subject: [Fwd: Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin]

 

Dear list,
yesterday, I did send the note below to ho who had not discovered the 
link and entered my esteemed opinion on this project.
Its in the local Berlin paper again today with a long report on how they 
are creating two setups, one indoor for rain and one outdoor for sunny 
weather...its quite a huge table coated with a very fancy and expensive 
material that can also be written on...they have already approached the 
Guinness Book of World Records for the largest round table ever...and I 
wouldnt be surprised if they cut it up in pieces and auction it off as 
they did with other local objects like the Berlin Walland, of 
course, there is going to be a video where you can see all of them 
simultaneously answering questions...

To me this is a good example for the paradigm Experts solve Problems 
(Taylor, Scientific management)which dominated the art between 1900 and 
1950, followed by a phase of Everybody solves Problems (Group Problem 
Solving, Lewin etc.) which in recent years, under the influence of 
Systems Thinking, has been changing since 1965 into Experts improve 
whole systems and, more recently, with the development of approaches 
such as Open Space, Future Search, etc., into Everybody improves whole 
systems.
I dont think that an approach long shown to be useless for the 
challenges we are facing now improves through technology that makes it 
available instantaneously, worldwide...
Still, its a fascinating show that definitely is marketed in an 
effective mode...
So, for me its back to practicing Open Space Technology!
Greetings from Berlin
mmp



 Original Message 
Subject: Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin
Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 01:18:25 +0200
From: Michael M Pannwitz mmpa...@boscop.de
To: Harrison Owen hho...@verizon.net
References: 00ec01c6cf96$7c0ba5e0$0201a8c0@fundao0ngpntt7 
002601c6cfaa$86112ba0$b2f13018@holaptop

click on the link she supplied, its a little hard to see for old men like me
it was in the local Berlin paper today and I consider it to be a
fabulous piece of bullshit,
especially since they definitely forgot to include THIS
great mind
Tables have been out for some time...
Greetings from Berlin
mmp

Harrison Owen wrote:
 OK Funda. You are indeed the mystery woman. No more mysterious than 
 now. . . What interesting meeting in Berlin
  
 ho
 Harrison Owen
 7808 River Falls Dr.
 Potomac, MD  20854
 USA
 301-365-2093
 207-763-3261 (summer)
 website www.openspaceworld.com http://www.openspaceworld.com
 Personal Website www.ho-image.com http://www.ho-image.com
 
 - Original Message -
 *From:* Funda Oral mailto:fundao...@ttnet.net.tr
 *To:* osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu
 mailto:osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu
 *Sent:* Sunday, September 03, 2006 4:21 PM
 *Subject:* an interesting meeting in Berlin
 
 http://www.droppingknowledge.org/
 * * ==
 osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu
 mailto:osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu
 -- To subscribe, unsubscribe, change
 your options, view the archives of osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu
 mailto:osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu:
 http

Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin]

2006-09-04 Thread Phelim McDermott
Last time i looked this was the top rated question today it's number  
five!




How do we reduce the elitism of knowledge such as your event? Why do  
the masses ask you and not the other way around? Can you not ask  
questions of us and allow us to answer. Certainly we have better  
answers being more minds than you?



Phelimx





On 4 Sep 2006, at 17:27, Nancy Weatherhead wrote:

I understand the bias here against ‘experts’… but most of the  
‘experts’ I have met are fully aware of their own lack of ability  
to answer all questions and would only choose to call themselves an  
expert in a certain area/field of living… and.. I do not see this  
word being used here… I also see that this is yet another forum  
that is looking for input from a wide variety and cross section of  
people from all countries and areas of ‘expertise’.  Perhaps if you  
can look beyond a form that is not of your choosing you could find  
some value here?




Nancy

See with an open heart, hear with an open mind.

From: OSLIST [mailto:osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu] On Behalf Of  
Harrison Owen

Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 9:44 AM
To: osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu
Subject: Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin]



Thanks to my increasing myopia (doubtless due to sins past and  
present) I did in fact miss the URL. small print! is the root of  
all evil!! But I love you Funda!!!




And Michael -- you captured my feeling exactly when it come to  
events like this. Doubtless it will be a marvelous show, but as an  
advance of real knowledge, and more importantly the application of  
that knowledge, I rather think it will come up short. The Expert  
Syndrome one more time. Old joke about the definition of expert  
-- a has been under pressure. Some truth there, I think.




Harrison



Harrison Owen
7808 River Falls Dr.
Potomac, MD  20854
USA
301-365-2093
207-763-3261 (summer)
website www.openspaceworld.com
Personal Website www.ho-image.com

- Original Message -

From: Michael M Pannwitz

To: osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu

Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 4:12 AM

Subject: [Fwd: Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin]



Dear list,
yesterday, I did send the note below to ho who had not discovered the
link and entered my esteemed opinion on this project.
Its in the local Berlin paper again today with a long report on how  
they

are creating two setups, one indoor for rain and one outdoor for sunny
weather...its quite a huge table coated with a very fancy and  
expensive
material that can also be written on...they have already approached  
the
Guinness Book of World Records for the largest round table  
ever...and I

wouldnt be surprised if they cut it up in pieces and auction it off as
they did with other local objects like the Berlin Walland, of
course, there is going to be a video where you can see all of them
simultaneously answering questions...

To me this is a good example for the paradigm Experts solve Problems
(Taylor, Scientific management)which dominated the art between 1900  
and
1950, followed by a phase of Everybody solves Problems (Group  
Problem

Solving, Lewin etc.) which in recent years, under the influence of
Systems Thinking, has been changing since 1965 into Experts improve
whole systems and, more recently, with the development of approaches
such as Open Space, Future Search, etc., into Everybody improves  
whole

systems.
I dont think that an approach long shown to be useless for the
challenges we are facing now improves through technology that makes it
available instantaneously, worldwide...
Still, its a fascinating show that definitely is marketed in an
effective mode...
So, for me its back to practicing Open Space Technology!
Greetings from Berlin
mmp



 Original Message 
Subject: Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin
Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 01:18:25 +0200
From: Michael M Pannwitz mmpa...@boscop.de
To: Harrison Owen hho...@verizon.net
References: 00ec01c6cf96$7c0ba5e0$0201a8c0@fundao0ngpntt7
002601c6cfaa$86112ba0$b2f13018@holaptop

click on the link she supplied, its a little hard to see for old  
men like me

it was in the local Berlin paper today and I consider it to be a
fabulous piece of bullshit,
especially since they definitely forgot to include THIS
great mind
Tables have been out for some time...
Greetings from Berlin
mmp

Harrison Owen wrote:
 OK Funda. You are indeed the mystery woman. No more mysterious  
than

 now. . . What interesting meeting in Berlin

 ho
 Harrison Owen
 7808 River Falls Dr.
 Potomac, MD  20854
 USA
 301-365-2093
 207-763-3261 (summer)
 website www.openspaceworld.com http://www.openspaceworld.com
 Personal Website www.ho-image.com http://www.ho-image.com

 - Original Message -
 *From:* Funda Oral mailto:fundao...@ttnet.net.tr
 *To:* osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu
 mailto:osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu
 *Sent:* Sunday, September 03, 2006 4:21 PM
 *Subject:* an interesting meeting in Berlin

 http

Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin]

2006-09-04 Thread Diane Brandon
I think it's all good -- and the website is a lot of fun. I liked the  
home made videos.


My daughter-in-law's question (I don't know if she sent it in) was  
something like the following, though I've built upon her comments:  
How many of you have children? Who is taking care of them? What can  
be done to better support the caregivers?



Diane Brandon, M.Ed., Coordinator
KEYS Coalition (CWC)
Landmark Hill Community Resource Center
518 Rte One, Box 4, Kittery, ME 03904
207-438-9100
Fax: 207-439-8764
di...@keysregion.org
www.keysregion.org



On Sep 4, 2006, at 12:27 PM, Nancy Weatherhead wrote:

I understand the bias here against ‘experts’… but most of the  
‘experts’ I have met are fully aware of their own lack of ability  
to answer all questions and would only choose to call themselves an  
expert in a certain area/field of living… and.. I do not see this  
word being used here… I also see that this is yet another forum  
that is looking for input from a wide variety and cross section of  
people from all countries and areas of ‘expertise’.  Perhaps if you  
can look beyond a form that is not of your choosing you could find  
some value here?




Nancy

See with an open heart, hear with an open mind.

From: OSLIST [mailto:osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu] On Behalf Of  
Harrison Owen

Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 9:44 AM
To: osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu
Subject: Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin]



Thanks to my increasing myopia (doubtless due to sins past and  
present) I did in fact miss the URL. small print! is the root of  
all evil!! But I love you Funda!!!




And Michael -- you captured my feeling exactly when it come to  
events like this. Doubtless it will be a marvelous show, but as an  
advance of real knowledge, and more importantly the application of  
that knowledge, I rather think it will come up short. The Expert  
Syndrome one more time. Old joke about the definition of expert  
-- a has been under pressure. Some truth there, I think.




Harrison



Harrison Owen
7808 River Falls Dr.
Potomac, MD  20854
USA
301-365-2093
207-763-3261 (summer)
website www.openspaceworld.com
Personal Website www.ho-image.com

- Original Message -

From: Michael M Pannwitz

To: osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu

Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 4:12 AM

Subject: [Fwd: Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin]



Dear list,
yesterday, I did send the note below to ho who had not discovered the
link and entered my esteemed opinion on this project.
Its in the local Berlin paper again today with a long report on how  
they

are creating two setups, one indoor for rain and one outdoor for sunny
weather...its quite a huge table coated with a very fancy and  
expensive
material that can also be written on...they have already approached  
the
Guinness Book of World Records for the largest round table  
ever...and I

wouldnt be surprised if they cut it up in pieces and auction it off as
they did with other local objects like the Berlin Walland, of
course, there is going to be a video where you can see all of them
simultaneously answering questions...

To me this is a good example for the paradigm Experts solve Problems
(Taylor, Scientific management)which dominated the art between 1900  
and
1950, followed by a phase of Everybody solves Problems (Group  
Problem

Solving, Lewin etc.) which in recent years, under the influence of
Systems Thinking, has been changing since 1965 into Experts improve
whole systems and, more recently, with the development of approaches
such as Open Space, Future Search, etc., into Everybody improves  
whole

systems.
I dont think that an approach long shown to be useless for the
challenges we are facing now improves through technology that makes it
available instantaneously, worldwide...
Still, its a fascinating show that definitely is marketed in an
effective mode...
So, for me its back to practicing Open Space Technology!
Greetings from Berlin
mmp



 Original Message 
Subject: Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin
Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 01:18:25 +0200
From: Michael M Pannwitz mmpa...@boscop.de
To: Harrison Owen hho...@verizon.net
References: 00ec01c6cf96$7c0ba5e0$0201a8c0@fundao0ngpntt7
002601c6cfaa$86112ba0$b2f13018@holaptop

click on the link she supplied, its a little hard to see for old  
men like me

it was in the local Berlin paper today and I consider it to be a
fabulous piece of bullshit,
especially since they definitely forgot to include THIS
great mind
Tables have been out for some time...
Greetings from Berlin
mmp

Harrison Owen wrote:
 OK Funda. You are indeed the mystery woman. No more mysterious  
than

 now. . . What interesting meeting in Berlin

 ho
 Harrison Owen
 7808 River Falls Dr.
 Potomac, MD  20854
 USA
 301-365-2093
 207-763-3261 (summer)
 website www.openspaceworld.com http://www.openspaceworld.com
 Personal Website www.ho-image.com http://www.ho-image.com

 - Original Message -
 *From:* Funda Oral

Re: [Fwd: Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin]

2006-09-04 Thread Zelle Nelson

Hello Harrison, Michael, Funda, Nancy, and Everyone,

There are many thoughtful ideas here, thank you.

Nancy has an excellent point. I believe the round table with  
experts is simply a dynamic invitation disguised as an event. The  
real process is an experiment in creating worldwide online dialogue  
using the round table/expert/media event as a way to draw attention  
to 600 questions of importance, while building a digital report of  
the ongoing conversation(s).


I believe that building on this idea would provide a greater jumping  
off point.


Why not find a question of the 600 that sparks your soul and create  
an invitation into Open Space around that invitation, or support the  
idea of invitation and conversation, or create your own question, or  
continue opening space as you all so beautifully do?


How can this meeting be used to create more conversation ~ not less?

with grace and love,

Zelle

Zelle Nelson
Know Place Like Home/Engaging the Soul@Work/State of Grace Document

www.knowplacelikehome.com
www.engagingthesoulatwork.com
www.stateofgracedocument.com

ze...@knowplacelikehome.com

work/home: (001) 828.693.0802
mobile: (001) 847.951.7030

Isle of Skye
2021 Greenville Hwy
Flat Rock, NC 28731
USA






On Sep 4, 2006, at 4:12 AM, Michael M Pannwitz wrote:


Dear list,
yesterday, I did send the note below to ho who had not discovered  
the link and entered my esteemed opinion on this project.
Its in the local Berlin paper again today with a long report on how  
they are creating two setups, one indoor for rain and one outdoor  
for sunny weather...its quite a huge table coated with a very fancy  
and expensive material that can also be written on...they have  
already approached the Guinness Book of World Records for the  
largest round table ever...and I wouldnt be surprised if they cut  
it up in pieces and auction it off as they did with other local  
objects like the Berlin Walland, of course, there is going to  
be a video where you can see all of them simultaneously answering  
questions...


To me this is a good example for the paradigm Experts solve  
Problems (Taylor, Scientific management)which dominated the art  
between 1900 and 1950, followed by a phase of Everybody solves  
Problems (Group Problem Solving, Lewin etc.) which in recent  
years, under the influence of Systems Thinking, has been changing  
since 1965 into Experts improve whole systems and, more recently,  
with the development of approaches such as Open Space, Future  
Search, etc., into Everybody improves whole systems.
I dont think that an approach long shown to be useless for the  
challenges we are facing now improves through technology that makes  
it available instantaneously, worldwide...
Still, its a fascinating show that definitely is marketed in an  
effective mode...

So, for me its back to practicing Open Space Technology!
Greetings from Berlin
mmp



 Original Message 
Subject: Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin
Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 01:18:25 +0200
From: Michael M Pannwitz mmpa...@boscop.de
To: Harrison Owen hho...@verizon.net
References: 00ec01c6cf96$7c0ba5e0$0201a8c0@fundao0ngpntt7  
002601c6cfaa$86112ba0$b2f13018@holaptop


click on the link she supplied, its a little hard to see for old  
men like me

it was in the local Berlin paper today and I consider it to be a
fabulous piece of bullshit,
especially since they definitely forgot to include THIS
great mind
Tables have been out for some time...
Greetings from Berlin
mmp

Harrison Owen wrote:
OK Funda. You are indeed the mystery woman. No more mysterious  
than now. . . What interesting meeting in Berlin

 ho
Harrison Owen
7808 River Falls Dr.
Potomac, MD  20854
USA
301-365-2093
207-763-3261 (summer)
website www.openspaceworld.com http://www.openspaceworld.com
Personal Website www.ho-image.com http://www.ho-image.com
- Original Message -
*From:* Funda Oral mailto:fundao...@ttnet.net.tr
*To:* osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu
mailto:osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu
*Sent:* Sunday, September 03, 2006 4:21 PM
*Subject:* an interesting meeting in Berlin
http://www.droppingknowledge.org/
* * ==
osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu
mailto:osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu
-- To subscribe, unsubscribe, change
your options, view the archives of osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu
mailto:osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu:
http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn  
about

OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist * *  
==  
osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu -- To  
subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of  
osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu: http://listserv.boisestate.edu/ 
archives/oslist.html To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST

Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin]

2006-09-04 Thread Nancy Weatherhead
An excellent question. and. perhaps the 'right' forum for it.

 

  _  

From: OSLIST [mailto:osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu] On Behalf Of Phelim
McDermott
Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 1:48 PM
To: osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu
Subject: Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin]

 

Last time i looked this was the top rated question today it's number five!

 

 

 

How do we reduce the elitism of knowledge such as your event? Why do the
masses ask you and not the other way around? Can you not ask questions of us
and allow us to answer. Certainly we have better answers being more minds
than you?

 

 

Phelimx

 

 

 

 

 

On 4 Sep 2006, at 17:27, Nancy Weatherhead wrote:





I understand the bias here against 'experts'. but most of the 'experts' I
have met are fully aware of their own lack of ability to answer all
questions and would only choose to call themselves an expert in a certain
area/field of living. and.. I do not see this word being used here. I also
see that this is yet another forum that is looking for input from a wide
variety and cross section of people from all countries and areas of
'expertise'.  Perhaps if you can look beyond a form that is not of your
choosing you could find some value here?

 

Nancy

See with an open heart, hear with an open mind.

  _  

From: OSLIST [mailto:osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu] On Behalf Of Harrison
Owen
Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 9:44 AM
To: osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu
Subject: Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin]

 

Thanks to my increasing myopia (doubtless due to sins past and present) I
did in fact miss the URL. small print! is the root of all evil!! But I love
you Funda!!!

 

And Michael -- you captured my feeling exactly when it come to events like
this. Doubtless it will be a marvelous show, but as an advance of real
knowledge, and more importantly the application of that knowledge, I rather
think it will come up short. The Expert Syndrome one more time. Old joke
about the definition of expert -- a has been under pressure. Some truth
there, I think.

 

Harrison

 

Harrison Owen
7808 River Falls Dr.
Potomac, MD  20854
USA
301-365-2093
207-763-3261 (summer)
website  http://www.openspaceworld.com www.openspaceworld.com
Personal Website  http://www.ho-image.com www.ho-image.com

- Original Message -

From:  mailto:mmpa...@boscop.de Michael M Pannwitz

To:  mailto:osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu

Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 4:12 AM

Subject: [Fwd: Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin]

 

Dear list,
yesterday, I did send the note below to ho who had not discovered the 
link and entered my esteemed opinion on this project.
Its in the local Berlin paper again today with a long report on how they 
are creating two setups, one indoor for rain and one outdoor for sunny 
weather...its quite a huge table coated with a very fancy and expensive 
material that can also be written on...they have already approached the 
Guinness Book of World Records for the largest round table ever...and I 
wouldnt be surprised if they cut it up in pieces and auction it off as 
they did with other local objects like the Berlin Walland, of 
course, there is going to be a video where you can see all of them 
simultaneously answering questions...

To me this is a good example for the paradigm Experts solve Problems 
(Taylor, Scientific management)which dominated the art between 1900 and 
1950, followed by a phase of Everybody solves Problems (Group Problem 
Solving, Lewin etc.) which in recent years, under the influence of 
Systems Thinking, has been changing since 1965 into Experts improve 
whole systems and, more recently, with the development of approaches 
such as Open Space, Future Search, etc., into Everybody improves whole 
systems.
I dont think that an approach long shown to be useless for the 
challenges we are facing now improves through technology that makes it 
available instantaneously, worldwide...
Still, its a fascinating show that definitely is marketed in an 
effective mode...
So, for me its back to practicing Open Space Technology!
Greetings from Berlin
mmp



 Original Message 
Subject: Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin
Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 01:18:25 +0200
From: Michael M Pannwitz  mailto:mmpa...@boscop.de mmpa...@boscop.de
To: Harrison Owen  mailto:hho...@verizon.net hho...@verizon.net
References:  mailto:00ec01c6cf96$7c0ba5e0$0201a8c0@fundao0ngpntt7
00ec01c6cf96$7c0ba5e0$0201a8c0@fundao0ngpntt7 
 mailto:002601c6cfaa$86112ba0$b2f13018@holaptop
002601c6cfaa$86112ba0$b2f13018@holaptop

click on the link she supplied, its a little hard to see for old men like me
it was in the local Berlin paper today and I consider it to be a
fabulous piece of bullshit,
especially since they definitely forgot to include THIS
great mind
Tables have been out for some time...
Greetings from Berlin
mmp

Harrison Owen wrote:
 OK Funda. You are indeed the mystery woman. No more mysterious than 
 now

Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin]

2006-09-04 Thread Diane Brandon
Where on the www.droppingknowledge.org website can you see the top  
rated questions? I see pages where one can rate them -- but not a  
page with the top questions.


Diane



On Sep 4, 2006, at 1:12 PM, Nancy Weatherhead wrote:


An excellent question… and… perhaps the ‘right’ forum for it.



From: OSLIST [mailto:osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu] On Behalf Of  
Phelim McDermott

Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 1:48 PM
To: osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu
Subject: Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin]



Last time i looked this was the top rated question today it's  
number five!








How do we reduce the elitism of knowledge such as your event? Why  
do the masses ask you and not the other way around? Can you not ask  
questions of us and allow us to answer. Certainly we have better  
answers being more minds than you?






Phelimx











On 4 Sep 2006, at 17:27, Nancy Weatherhead wrote:




I understand the bias here against ‘experts’… but most of the  
‘experts’ I have met are fully aware of their own lack of ability  
to answer all questions and would only choose to call themselves an  
expert in a certain area/field of living… and.. I do not see this  
word being used here… I also see that this is yet another forum  
that is looking for input from a wide variety and cross section of  
people from all countries and areas of ‘expertise’.  Perhaps if you  
can look beyond a form that is not of your choosing you could find  
some value here?




Nancy

See with an open heart, hear with an open mind.

From: OSLIST [mailto:osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu] On Behalf Of  
Harrison Owen

Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 9:44 AM
To: osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu
Subject: Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin]



Thanks to my increasing myopia (doubtless due to sins past and  
present) I did in fact miss the URL. small print! is the root of  
all evil!! But I love you Funda!!!




And Michael -- you captured my feeling exactly when it come to  
events like this. Doubtless it will be a marvelous show, but as an  
advance of real knowledge, and more importantly the application of  
that knowledge, I rather think it will come up short. The Expert  
Syndrome one more time. Old joke about the definition of expert  
-- a has been under pressure. Some truth there, I think.




Harrison



Harrison Owen
7808 River Falls Dr.
Potomac, MD  20854
USA
301-365-2093
207-763-3261 (summer)
website www.openspaceworld.com
Personal Website www.ho-image.com

- Original Message -

From: Michael M Pannwitz

To: osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu

Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 4:12 AM

Subject: [Fwd: Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin]



Dear list,
yesterday, I did send the note below to ho who had not discovered the
link and entered my esteemed opinion on this project.
Its in the local Berlin paper again today with a long report on how  
they

are creating two setups, one indoor for rain and one outdoor for sunny
weather...its quite a huge table coated with a very fancy and  
expensive
material that can also be written on...they have already approached  
the
Guinness Book of World Records for the largest round table  
ever...and I

wouldnt be surprised if they cut it up in pieces and auction it off as
they did with other local objects like the Berlin Walland, of
course, there is going to be a video where you can see all of them
simultaneously answering questions...

To me this is a good example for the paradigm Experts solve Problems
(Taylor, Scientific management)which dominated the art between 1900  
and
1950, followed by a phase of Everybody solves Problems (Group  
Problem

Solving, Lewin etc.) which in recent years, under the influence of
Systems Thinking, has been changing since 1965 into Experts improve
whole systems and, more recently, with the development of approaches
such as Open Space, Future Search, etc., into Everybody improves  
whole

systems.
I dont think that an approach long shown to be useless for the
challenges we are facing now improves through technology that makes it
available instantaneously, worldwide...
Still, its a fascinating show that definitely is marketed in an
effective mode...
So, for me its back to practicing Open Space Technology!
Greetings from Berlin
mmp



 Original Message 
Subject: Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin
Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 01:18:25 +0200
From: Michael M Pannwitz mmpa...@boscop.de
To: Harrison Owen hho...@verizon.net
References: 00ec01c6cf96$7c0ba5e0$0201a8c0@fundao0ngpntt7
002601c6cfaa$86112ba0$b2f13018@holaptop

click on the link she supplied, its a little hard to see for old  
men like me

it was in the local Berlin paper today and I consider it to be a
fabulous piece of bullshit,
especially since they definitely forgot to include THIS
great mind
Tables have been out for some time...
Greetings from Berlin
mmp

Harrison Owen wrote:
 OK Funda. You are indeed the mystery woman. No more mysterious  
than

 now. . . What interesting meeting

Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin]

2006-09-04 Thread Diane Brandon

On Sep 4, 2006, at 1:13 PM, no.re...@droppingknowledge.org wrote:

Fowllowing the first Table of Free Voices on September 9, 2006, a new  
global dialog platform will be launched, where you will have the  
opportunity to answer and discuss solutions to all the questions  
received by dropping knowledge, so please keep asking yourself.


There is no limit to the number of questions you can submit. dropping  
knowledge welcomes questions from your friends, colleagues and  
relatives. The global dialog grows with every new contribution.


*
*
==
osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu
--
To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
view the archives of osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu:
http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html

To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist


Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin]

2006-09-04 Thread Funda Oral
Filiz, why not our city : Istanbul?  
I have been putting energy for something like that for long time
You do too
Maybe it happens
funda
  - Original Message - 
  From: filiz 
  To: osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu 
  Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 7:57 PM
  Subject: Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin]


  How about this?

   

  Could we do, if we had put our energies into it, a similar size and popular 
OS event in some big city, would that be revolutionary, evolutionary and worth 
the effort?

   

  Playfully,

  filiz

   

  -Original Message-
  From: Funda Oral [mailto:fundao...@ttnet.net.tr] 
  Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 5:07 PM
  To: osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu
  Subject: Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin]

   

  Harrison, i love you too,

   

  Michael, i agree with you and with Harrison,

   

  But, the show must go on!

   

  I wish this meeting was an OS meeting whether with or without experts.

   

  Funda

   

- Original Message - 

From: Harrison Owen 

To: osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu 

Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 3:44 PM

Subject: Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin]

 

Thanks to my increasing myopia (doubtless due to sins past and present) I 
did in fact miss the URL. small print! is the root of all evil!! But I love you 
Funda!!!

 

And Michael -- you captured my feeling exactly when it come to events like 
this. Doubtless it will be a marvelous show, but as an advance of real 
knowledge, and more importantly the application of that knowledge, I rather 
think it will come up short. The Expert Syndrome one more time. Old joke 
about the definition of expert -- a has been under pressure. Some truth 
there, I think.

 

Harrison

 

Harrison Owen
7808 River Falls Dr.
Potomac, MD  20854
USA
301-365-2093
207-763-3261 (summer)
website www.openspaceworld.com
Personal Website www.ho-image.com

  - Original Message - 

  From: Michael M Pannwitz 

  To: osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu 

  Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 4:12 AM

  Subject: [Fwd: Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin]

   

  Dear list,
  yesterday, I did send the note below to ho who had not discovered the 
  link and entered my esteemed opinion on this project.
  Its in the local Berlin paper again today with a long report on how they 
  are creating two setups, one indoor for rain and one outdoor for sunny 
  weather...its quite a huge table coated with a very fancy and expensive 
  material that can also be written on...they have already approached the 
  Guinness Book of World Records for the largest round table ever...and I 
  wouldnt be surprised if they cut it up in pieces and auction it off as 
  they did with other local objects like the Berlin Walland, of 
  course, there is going to be a video where you can see all of them 
  simultaneously answering questions...

  To me this is a good example for the paradigm Experts solve Problems 
  (Taylor, Scientific management)which dominated the art between 1900 and 
  1950, followed by a phase of Everybody solves Problems (Group Problem 
  Solving, Lewin etc.) which in recent years, under the influence of 
  Systems Thinking, has been changing since 1965 into Experts improve 
  whole systems and, more recently, with the development of approaches 
  such as Open Space, Future Search, etc., into Everybody improves whole 
  systems.
  I dont think that an approach long shown to be useless for the 
  challenges we are facing now improves through technology that makes it 
  available instantaneously, worldwide...
  Still, its a fascinating show that definitely is marketed in an 
  effective mode...
  So, for me its back to practicing Open Space Technology!
  Greetings from Berlin
  mmp



   Original Message 
  Subject: Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin
  Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 01:18:25 +0200
  From: Michael M Pannwitz mmpa...@boscop.de
  To: Harrison Owen hho...@verizon.net
  References: 00ec01c6cf96$7c0ba5e0$0201a8c0@fundao0ngpntt7 
  002601c6cfaa$86112ba0$b2f13018@holaptop

  click on the link she supplied, its a little hard to see for old men like 
me
  it was in the local Berlin paper today and I consider it to be a
  fabulous piece of bullshit,
  especially since they definitely forgot to include THIS
  great mind
  Tables have been out for some time...
  Greetings from Berlin
  mmp

  Harrison Owen wrote:
   OK Funda. You are indeed the mystery woman. No more mysterious than 
   now. . . What interesting meeting in Berlin

   ho
   Harrison Owen
   7808 River Falls Dr.
   Potomac, MD  20854
   USA
   301-365-2093
   207-763-3261 (summer)
   website

Re: [Fwd: Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin]

2006-09-04 Thread Funda Oral
How can this meeting be used to create more conversation ~ not less? says 
Zelle

this is also an excellent question.

the good thing about this event is that at least it starts with the questions. 

funda


  - Original Message - 
  From: Zelle Nelson 
  To: osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu 
  Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 8:10 PM
  Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin]


  Hello Harrison, Michael, Funda, Nancy, and Everyone,


  There are many thoughtful ideas here, thank you.


  Nancy has an excellent point. I believe the round table with experts is 
simply a dynamic invitation disguised as an event. The real process is an 
experiment in creating worldwide online dialogue using the round 
table/expert/media event as a way to draw attention to 600 questions of 
importance, while building a digital report of the ongoing conversation(s).


  I believe that building on this idea would provide a greater jumping off 
point.


  Why not find a question of the 600 that sparks your soul and create an 
invitation into Open Space around that invitation, or support the idea of 
invitation and conversation, or create your own question, or continue opening 
space as you all so beautifully do?


  How can this meeting be used to create more conversation ~ not less?


  with grace and love,


  Zelle


  Zelle Nelson
  Know Place Like Home/Engaging the Soul@Work/State of Grace Document


  www.knowplacelikehome.com
  www.engagingthesoulatwork.com
  www.stateofgracedocument.com


  ze...@knowplacelikehome.com


  work/home: (001) 828.693.0802
  mobile: (001) 847.951.7030


  Isle of Skye
  2021 Greenville Hwy
  Flat Rock, NC 28731
  USA












  On Sep 4, 2006, at 4:12 AM, Michael M Pannwitz wrote:


Dear list,
yesterday, I did send the note below to ho who had not discovered the link 
and entered my esteemed opinion on this project.
Its in the local Berlin paper again today with a long report on how they 
are creating two setups, one indoor for rain and one outdoor for sunny 
weather...its quite a huge table coated with a very fancy and expensive 
material that can also be written on...they have already approached the 
Guinness Book of World Records for the largest round table ever...and I wouldnt 
be surprised if they cut it up in pieces and auction it off as they did with 
other local objects like the Berlin Walland, of course, there is going to 
be a video where you can see all of them simultaneously answering questions...


To me this is a good example for the paradigm Experts solve Problems 
(Taylor, Scientific management)which dominated the art between 1900 and 1950, 
followed by a phase of Everybody solves Problems (Group Problem Solving, 
Lewin etc.) which in recent years, under the influence of Systems Thinking, has 
been changing since 1965 into Experts improve whole systems and, more 
recently, with the development of approaches such as Open Space, Future Search, 
etc., into Everybody improves whole systems.
I dont think that an approach long shown to be useless for the challenges 
we are facing now improves through technology that makes it available 
instantaneously, worldwide...
Still, its a fascinating show that definitely is marketed in an effective 
mode...
So, for me its back to practicing Open Space Technology!
Greetings from Berlin
mmp






 Original Message 
Subject: Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin
Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 01:18:25 +0200
From: Michael M Pannwitz mmpa...@boscop.de
To: Harrison Owen hho...@verizon.net
References: 00ec01c6cf96$7c0ba5e0$0201a8c0@fundao0ngpntt7 
002601c6cfaa$86112ba0$b2f13018@holaptop


click on the link she supplied, its a little hard to see for old men like me
it was in the local Berlin paper today and I consider it to be a
fabulous piece of bullshit,
especially since they definitely forgot to include THIS
great mind
Tables have been out for some time...
Greetings from Berlin
mmp


Harrison Owen wrote:
  OK Funda. You are indeed the mystery woman. No more mysterious than 
now. . . What interesting meeting in Berlin
   ho
  Harrison Owen
  7808 River Falls Dr.
  Potomac, MD  20854
  USA
  301-365-2093
  207-763-3261 (summer)
  website www.openspaceworld.com http://www.openspaceworld.com
  Personal Website www.ho-image.com http://www.ho-image.com
  - Original Message -
  *From:* Funda Oral mailto:fundao...@ttnet.net.tr
  *To:* osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu
  mailto:osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu
  *Sent:* Sunday, September 03, 2006 4:21 PM
  *Subject:* an interesting meeting in Berlin
  http://www.droppingknowledge.org/
  * * ==
  osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu
  mailto:osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu

Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin]

2006-09-04 Thread Harrison Owen
Nancy -- I guess I don't see this as a matter of bias -- but rather -- long 
experience and firm conviction. That some people possess great and valuable 
stores of knowledge is a certainty. And you are certainly correct, the really 
good ones are exquisitely sensitive to their limitations. However, my 
experience has been that the rate of transfer of useful knowledge from the 
experts to the lives and situations of the people has typically be quite 
slow, made all the more so by the fact that it is often presumed that the 
people are ignorant and have nothing to contribute. The expert may in fact have 
the answer, but unless it fits with some question of existential concern with 
the people, that answer is of doubtful value and limited application. The 
situation radically improves when effective dialogue takes place -- the sort of 
dialogue which recognizes that ALL participants are useful and needed, and all 
are expert in their own peculiar and unique way.

It is also a matter of experience (and firm conviction) that a group of people 
is infinitely smarter than any individual, no matter how bright, talented, and 
learned that individual may be. The trick is to create conditions in which the 
free flow of information may take place in all directions simultaneously. When 
that happens we can perceive the full wisdom of crowds. And for sure it beats 
the one way Question  Answer approach. It just so happens that Open Space is 
ONE way that such a fruitful flow may be established. And certainly not the 
only one -- but given a choice between a roundtable of 600 (presumed) experts 
and a couple days in Open Space with a similar number of people -- there really 
isn't any choice. At least not for me. However, I am sure the Berlin event will 
be a superb show -- and definitely one for the Guinness Book of Records. 

Harrison
  
Harrison Owen
7808 River Falls Dr.
Potomac, MD  20854
USA
301-365-2093
207-763-3261 (summer)
website www.openspaceworld.com
Personal Website www.ho-image.com

  - Original Message - 
  From: Nancy Weatherhead 
  To: 'Harrison Owen' ; osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu 
  Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 12:27 PM
  Subject: RE: an interesting meeting in Berlin]


  I understand the bias here against 'experts'. but most of the 'experts' I 
have met are fully aware of their own lack of ability to answer all questions 
and would only choose to call themselves an expert in a certain area/field of 
living. and.. I do not see this word being used here. I also see that this is 
yet another forum that is looking for input from a wide variety and cross 
section of people from all countries and areas of 'expertise'.  Perhaps if you 
can look beyond a form that is not of your choosing you could find some value 
here?

   

  Nancy

  See with an open heart, hear with an open mind.


--

  From: OSLIST [mailto:osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu] On Behalf Of Harrison 
Owen
  Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 9:44 AM
  To: osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu
  Subject: Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin]

   

  Thanks to my increasing myopia (doubtless due to sins past and present) I did 
in fact miss the URL. small print! is the root of all evil!! But I love you 
Funda!!!

   

  And Michael -- you captured my feeling exactly when it come to events like 
this. Doubtless it will be a marvelous show, but as an advance of real 
knowledge, and more importantly the application of that knowledge, I rather 
think it will come up short. The Expert Syndrome one more time. Old joke 
about the definition of expert -- a has been under pressure. Some truth 
there, I think.

   

  Harrison

   

  Harrison Owen
  7808 River Falls Dr.
  Potomac, MD  20854
  USA
  301-365-2093
  207-763-3261 (summer)
  website www.openspaceworld.com
  Personal Website www.ho-image.com

- Original Message - 

From: Michael M Pannwitz 

To: osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu 

Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 4:12 AM

Subject: [Fwd: Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin]

 

Dear list,
yesterday, I did send the note below to ho who had not discovered the 
link and entered my esteemed opinion on this project.
Its in the local Berlin paper again today with a long report on how they 
are creating two setups, one indoor for rain and one outdoor for sunny 
weather...its quite a huge table coated with a very fancy and expensive 
material that can also be written on...they have already approached the 
Guinness Book of World Records for the largest round table ever...and I 
wouldnt be surprised if they cut it up in pieces and auction it off as 
they did with other local objects like the Berlin Walland, of 
course, there is going to be a video where you can see all of them 
simultaneously answering questions...

To me this is a good example for the paradigm Experts solve Problems

Re: an interesting meeting in Berlin

2006-09-03 Thread Harrison Owen
OK Funda. You are indeed the mystery woman. No more mysterious than now. . . 
What interesting meeting in Berlin

ho
Harrison Owen
7808 River Falls Dr.
Potomac, MD  20854
USA
301-365-2093
207-763-3261 (summer)
website www.openspaceworld.com
Personal Website www.ho-image.com

  - Original Message - 
  From: Funda Oral 
  To: osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu 
  Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 4:21 PM
  Subject: an interesting meeting in Berlin


  http://www.droppingknowledge.org/
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