RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: Breech Babies
A very interesting discussion on breech births and midwives: http://www.radmid.demon.co.uk/breech.htm Vedrana -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Miriam Hannay Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 6:10 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: Breech Babies I totally understand, Susan about the whole fear of breech birth. We have a couple of OBs who will 'let' women birth a breech babe vaginally, but fully managed, IOL, 16 gauge bores in both arms, hartmann's up, McRoberts, episi, full extraction. To me this seems torture. I am a second year Bmid student and intending to go into independent practice, so am availing myself of every extra learning opportunity available. A fellow student and I (my lovely partner in crime), attended Maggie Banks' emergency skills workshop in Melbourne recently which was SO valuable, and we feel much more comfortable about the possibility now. I have a dear friend whose first 'catch' as an RM was an undiagnosed breech at home, so it does happen. We need to be prepared and develop the skills to handle this situation. What a shame and potential danger it is if these skills fall by the way. Everyone who can should hear Maggie Banks speak, she dispells fears and demystifies like no-one else. Regards, Miriam (FUSA) --- Susan Cudlipp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes it was Brenda who wrote that, but I have also been a midwife long enough to have seen many breech births - back in the UK, and delivered a few myself. Not all good, mostly quite 'managed' but at least they were mostly seen as being manageable vaginally! My own elective C/S (nearly 21 years old now!) was for primip breech, although I was given the choice of vaginal birth, I knew just what that would entail within the large unit that I was obliged to attend - epidural, forceps, episiotomy, and I chose not to go there, however at that time there was no question that I would not be able to have VBAC with the next - nowadays that is not so. A year or so back we had a multi with a breech who was lucky enough to see a less interventionist OB (as you so rightly guessed Melissa :-)) and she chose to have a vaginal birth. Of course it had to be induced on the 'right' day, but was very straight forward. Apart from that we really don't see them anymore, and at least one of the few docs who does do them does such a horrendous job that I would personally prefer a C/S rather than submit to his handling.( you can probably guess that one too Mel!) It is sad that student midwives today will not learn these essential skills within the hospital system. Personally I feel confident that I can handle an unexpected breech, but cannot see how the next generation are going to cope with this, there is so much fear of what is really only a different variety of birth, in the same way that any 'different' presentation is. Anyone who has had the pleasure of hearing Maggie Banks speak, watched her video, or that of Michel Odent's work in Pithiers will know that this is true Rachel, I totally empathise with how you are feeling having just come to Australia from the UK (been here 15 years myself). It was a real shock to me to see how much all births are seen as being the doctor's property. One of my first births here was in a small hospital and I called the GP as per protocol. He arrived as I had the head in my hands and proceeded to rush in, without even washing his hands and virtually pushed me out of the way! I looked at him with horror and said quietly I think I may as well finish the job now don't you? He did step back and let me finish. Some years later he admitted that he had learned a few things from me - one of which was to wait for restitution before trying to deliver the shoulders! They were always in such a goddamn hurry to drag the baby out, it drove me mad. When they are faced with an 'expert' obstetrician (often a male authority figure) telling them their baby is in danger - they will chose to protect their child because as a mother that is their instinct. An example of this happened to me just this week - the head was well and truly crowned (primip, long labour, NO fetal distress) but OB insisted on listening to FH immediately ctx ended - it was about 100, and he took over from me to apply forceps. I was not concerned for the baby as I knew there had been no compromise throughout and that he would be born within minutes, but within the system I am obliged to defer to the doctor's judgement, whether or not I agree with it. Believe me, I know well what happens when one tries to argue!! I hope you maintain your own integrity and autonomy - it is very different here to what we knew in UK, but we do need to keep pushing for midwifery led care. I feel that much of the problem lies with how we are
[ozmidwifery] Birthing options around Gosford - help please
Hi I have just received a phone call from a very excited friend who is 8 weeks pregnant, who lives at Gosford, and has asked my advice about her birthing options in that area I am hoping my ozmid friends will be able to fill me in on details as I am unsure Warm hug Julie Julie Clarke CBE Independent Childbirth and Parenting Educator HypnoBirthing (R) Practitioner ACE Grad Dip Supervisor NACE Advanced Educator and Trainer NACE National Journal Editor Transition into Parenthood Sessions 9 Withybrook Place Sylvania NSW 2224 Telephone 9544 6441 Mobile: 0401 2655 30 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] visit Julie's website: www.transitionintoparenthood.com.au
[ozmidwifery] Emailing: video05
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[ozmidwifery] Emailing: video05 you will like this
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Re: [ozmidwifery] Emailing: video05 you will like this
Is this a genuine message or a virus? I thought that attachments could not be sent to the list - please all be cautious and do not open unless it is verified "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: lyn lyn To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 7:16 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Emailing: video05 you will like this The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments:Shortcut to: http://www.clubcultura.com/haymotivo/video05.htmNote: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may prevent sending or receiving certain types of file attachments. Check your e-mail security settings to determine how attachments are handled. No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.18/88 - Release Date: 1/09/2005
Re: [ozmidwifery] Men at births
I think the utter relief after giving birth and the euphoria and oxytocin running through your body with a wet warm baby on your belly can be likened to orgasm - except BETTER! Cheers Jo x I agree and it lasted for weeks Honey -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Emailing: video05 you will like this
my virus scanner eliminated it. Gloria - Original Message - From: Susan Cudlipp To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 8:06 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Emailing: video05 you will like this Is this a genuine message or a virus? I thought that attachments could not be sent to the list - please all be cautious and do not open unless it is verified "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: lyn lyn To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 7:16 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Emailing: video05 you will like this The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments:Shortcut to: http://www.clubcultura.com/haymotivo/video05.htmNote: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may prevent sending or receiving certain types of file attachments. Check your e-mail security settings to determine how attachments are handled. No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.18/88 - Release Date: 1/09/2005
Re: [ozmidwifery] Birthing options around Gosford - help please
Hi Julie Talk to Carolyn Hastie in the first instance Cheers Jan Jan Robinson Independent Midwife Practitioner National Coordinator Australian Society of Independent Midwives 8 Robin Crescent South Hurstville NSW 2221 Phone/Fax: 02 9546 4350 e-mail address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> website: www.midwiferyeducation.com.au On 2 Sep, 2005, at 18:15, Julie Clarke wrote: x-tad-biggerHi/x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger I have just received a ‘phone call from a very excited friend who is 8 weeks pregnant, who lives at Gosford, and has asked my advice about her birthing options in that area… I am hoping my ozmid friends will be able to fill me in on details as I am unsure…/x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger /x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerWarm hug/x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerJulie/x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger /x-tad-bigger Julie Clarke CBE x-tad-biggerIndependent Childbirth and Parenting Educator/x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerHypnoBirthing (R) Practitioner/x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerACE Grad Dip Supervisor/x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerNACE Advanced Educator and Trainer/x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerNACE National Journal Editor/x-tad-bigger Transition into Parenthood Sessions x-tad-bigger9 Withybrook Place/x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerSylvania NSW 2224/x-tad-bigger Telephone 9544 6441 Mobile: 0401 2655 30 [EMAIL PROTECTED] x-tad-biggervisit Julie's website: /x-tad-biggerx-tad-biggerwww.transitionintoparenthood.com.au/x-tad-bigger
[ozmidwifery] Birth in the hurricane
(http://www.nola.com/newslogs/tporleans/index.ssf?/mtlogs/nola_tporleans/arc hives/2005_09.html#075586): 'From a crowded, dark attic surrounded by floodwater in a city pushed to the brink by Hurricane Katrina, 5 pounds, 4 ounces of hope has arrived. James Kenneth Brundy Jr. was born just after midnight Tuesday to Waldrica Nathan, 19, as she was stranded with family members in her fiance's 9th Ward attic. More than 36 hours after they were rescued by boat, Nathan and the baby were in excellent shape Wednesday at West Jefferson Medical Center in Marrero, doctors said. The child had been delivered by his father, James Brundy Sr. and his two grandparents, who had picked up a few obstetric skills from watching the Birth Channel. "The doctors said they were amazed that the family did all the right things," hospital spokeswoman Jennifer Steel said. As she lay in a maternity gown in the hospital's delivery unit, Nathan said her family's saga began Monday about 6:30 a.m. Nine months' pregnant, she and the others were forced to climb into the attic as waters rose rapidly on Metropolitan Street. By about 8 a.m. at the height of the storm, she started having contractions. While she gritted her teeth through the pain, family members dialed 911 but were told no one could help. "Boats and helicopters were passing by all day but none stopped," Nathan said. At exactly midnight, her water broke, and James Brundy Jr. was born 22 minutes later.' The grandfather "knew just where to cut the cord and how to tie a shoestring around it," she said. "We cleaned him off with some alcohol pads, wrapped him in a clean sheet, and I breast-fed. That's all he wanted to do, was eat," she said.'
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: Breech Babies
hi everyone there is still one obs i know of who women from all over NSW go to for their breech births. i was lucky enough to be at one breech birth with him and he was fantastic and very respectful and stood back and didnt actually do anything. there was no intervention whatsoever. intermittent auscultation, no IV, no epidural, no episiotomy, no forceps. actually she was born on a birth stool. he believes the term breech trial is highly flawed as i do and gives the families typed handouts about what the background of the trial, why he thinks its flawed and why he continues to attend breech births as well as possible risks etc. the best obs ive ever met for sure! even the other obs at the same hospital think hes mad love emily Miriam Hannay [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I totally understand, Susan about the whole fear ofbreech birth. We have a couple of OBs who will 'let'women birth a breech babe vaginally, but fullymanaged, IOL, 16 gauge bores in both arms, hartmann'sup, McRoberts, episi, full extraction. To me thisseems torture. I am a second year Bmid student andintending to go into independent practice, so amavailing myself of every extra learning opportunityavailable.A fellow student and I (my lovely partner in crime),attended Maggie Banks' emergency skills workshop inMelbourne recently which was SO valuable, and we feelmuch more comfortable about the possibility now. I have a dear friend whose first 'catch' as an RM wasan undiagnosed breech at home, so it does happen. Weneed to be prepared and develop the skills to handlethis situation. What a shame and potential d! anger itis if these skills fall by the way.Everyone who can should hear Maggie Banks speak, shedispells fears and demystifies like no-one else.Regards, Miriam (FUSA)--- Susan Cudlipp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: Yes it was Brenda who wrote that, but I have also been a midwife long enough to have seen many breech births - back in the UK, and delivered a few myself. Not all good, mostly quite 'managed' but at least they were mostly seen as being manageable vaginally! My own elective C/S (nearly 21 years old now!) was for primip breech, although I was given the choice of vaginal birth, I knew just what that would entail within the large unit that I was obliged to attend - epidural, forceps, episiotomy, and I chose not to go there, however at that time there was no question that I would not be able to hav! e VBAC with the next - nowadays that is not so. A year or so back we had a multi with a breech who was lucky enough to see a less interventionist OB (as you so rightly guessed Melissa :-)) and she chose to have a vaginal birth. Of course it had to be induced on the 'right' day, but was very straight forward. Apart from that we really don't see them anymore, and at least one of the few docs who does do them does such a horrendous job that I would personally prefer a C/S rather than submit to his handling.( you can probably guess that one too Mel!) It is sad that student midwives today will not learn these essential skills within the hospital system. Personally I feel confident that I can handle an unexpected breech, but cannot see how the next generation are going to cope with this! , there is so much fear of what is really only a different variety of birth, in the same way that any 'different' presentation is. Anyone who has had the pleasure of hearing Maggie Banks speak, watched her video, or that of Michel Odent's work in Pithiers will know that this is true Rachel, I totally empathise with how you are feeling having just come to Australia from the UK (been here 15 years myself). It was a real shock to me to see how much all births are seen as being the doctor's property. One of my first births here was in a small hospital and I called the GP as per protocol. He arrived as I had the head in my hands and proceeded to rush in, without even washing his hands and virtually pushed me out of the way! I looked at him with horror and said quietly " I think I may as well fi! nish the job now don't you?" He did step back and let me finish. Some years later he admitted that he had learned a few things from me - one of which was to wait for restitution before trying to deliver the shoulders! They were always in such a goddamn hurry to drag the baby out, it drove me mad. When they are faced with an 'expert' obstetrician (often a male authority figure) telling them their baby is in danger - they will chose to protect their child because as a mother that is their instinct. An example of this happened to me just this week - the head was well and truly crowned (primip, long labour, NO fetal distress) but OB insisted on listening to FH immediately ctx ended - it was about 100, and he took over from me to apply forceps. I was not con! cerned for the baby as I knew there had been no compromise throughout and that he would be born within minutes, but within the system I am obliged to defer to the doctor's
[ozmidwifery] The battle is hotting up!
This is in the Sydney Morning Herald today. There is certainly some great coverage on this issue - Kathleen Fahy is doing a tremendous job. I also understand that the ABC's 7.30 report was seeking Denis Walsh for a comment - they tracked him down through our office on Friday. Maybe a report coming up on TV next week? Midwives present own safety data By Ruth Pollard Health Reporter September 3, 2005 Tensions between midwives and private obstetricians have boiled over as the groups battle over safety, statistics and what is best for women and their babies. Fed up with the campaign being run by some obstetricians, who this week were criticised for exaggerating mortality risks at midwife birthing units, the midwives released their own interpretation of the safety figures and called for a reasoned debate on the issue. Speaking at a conference yesterday, the dean of midwifery at the University of Newcastle, Kathleen Fahy, said birthing units such as those at Ryde and Belmont hospitals were safe and produced good outcomes for both mothers and babies. An international study of 11,814 births at 84 birth centres found no maternal deaths and a 0.7 per 1000 rate of infant mortality if babies born with congenital malformations were excluded, Professor Fahy told the conference. According to the Australian Bureau of Statistics, about eight babies per 1000 pregnancies die in medical care. At birthing centres the figure is 6.6 per 1000. A second review of more than 8600 women in Britain, Canada, Sweden and Australia, produced by the respected Cochrane review, found perinatal mortality was not significantly higher at midwife centres, Professor Fahy said. But in his own interpretation of the figures, the Australian Medical Association's Andrew Pesce, an obstetrician, said the review had found the infant mortality risk was 83 per cent higher at midwife centres. The association's opposition to the midwife-led centres has intensified in recent weeks, in response to moves by the State Government to open more of the centres around the state. The Health Minister, John Hatzistergos, defended the units at Ryde and Belmont, saying there had been no adverse outcomes for mothers or babies since Ryde opened in March 2003. Belmont only opened in July. - Andrea Robertson Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth Education e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.birthinternational.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] Letters to the SMH
Hi, I finally got to the Letters page and found some gems: Money before service It is fascinating that the data from Andrew Pesce is different to what he has been erroneously peddling all week - 85 per cent is now 83 per cent (Doctors irked at lack of say in midwifery talks, Herald, September 2). None of the numbers he cites are accurate reflections of the evidence. Not that a lack of evidence has ever bothered the Australian Medical Association. The continuing protest over everything that isn't AMA-driven is becoming tiresome and suggestive of a greedy organisation more concerned with its hip pocket than addressing the health workforce and meeting consumer demands. Caroline Homer Professor of Midwifery, University of Technology Sydney, Broadway In about six weeks I will be having my third child. Each of my pregnancies has been monitored and led by the Team Midwife program at Royal North Shore Hospital. In not one instance can I fault the level of care and level of professionalism of this program. The spurious insinuations by some obstetricians that seeing a midwife during pregnancy rather than one of their own somehow results in poorer care for the baby is to be condemned. Midwives are not some raised-by-wolves alternative sect; they are medical professionals committed to those in their care. Kim Palmer Narrabeen Lessons from birth I was fortunate to be present for both our sons' births. It was serendipitous and apart from a truly wonderful if frightening experience, I learnt four lessons. Women are tougher than you think; nurses can handle anything; all the garbage about genitalia, gender rationale and interpolated meanings are crap (Trauma born in a stunning moment, Herald, August 31); and my wife was then, has been, and remains the most beautiful woman I have ever met. Sorry to embarrass you, darling, but it is Father's Day on Sunday, and the only present I need from you and our great kids is permission to say the above in public. Brings a tear to the eye... Andrea - Andrea Robertson Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth Education e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.birthinternational.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Orgasmic births
Dear Jo The hormones which should operate in childbirth are the same as in orgasmic sex but the situations in which most women birth do/must inhibit those hormones from working and so birth is orgasmic for so few!! Having been at home with couples sometimes sitting outside the room where the woman/couple are labouring privately , I liken most hospital laboura as trying to have orgasmic sex in a public street with strangers watching and telling the woman/couple what to do!! No real sex let alone Orgasmic sex would happen in these situations for most couples, similarly birth is rarely orgasmic in these environments!! The wonder is that women do birth despite what we do to them whilst they are doing it!! It is like the way wounds used to heal when we used the equivalent of toilet bleach (Eusol) on them when I was a student nurse but now we know about the physiology of moist wound healng we would act if some-one suggested Eusol be used to debride a wound today!! In fact I think I would be before the nurses board but we are not there let alone making complaints that what we do to the majority of birthing is non-physiological!! I hope one day we all will similarly demand that we MUST support physiological childbirth by ensuring at least healthy women can birth in privacy, wher they want, how they want with those they know and trust and who know how to empower a woman to trust and work with their babies and bodies!! Denise Hynd Let us support one another, not just in philosophy but in action, for the sake of freedom for all women to choose exactly how and by whom, if by anyone, our bodies will be handled. - Linda Hes - Original Message - From: jo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 7:49 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Men at births I think the utter relief after giving birth and the euphoria and oxytocin running through your body with a wet warm baby on your belly can be likened to orgasm - except BETTER! Cheers Jo x -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan Cudlipp Sent: Thursday, 1 September 2005 11:45 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Men at births PS I have a very dear friend who says that her labour WAS orgasmic - while I can't (unfortunately) claim the same, there was definitely a sexual/sensual aspect to it Sue The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: Susan Cudlipp [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 8:27 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Men at births Ah but they don't think that sex and childbirth are related!! Thanks for making me smile Sue The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: Dean Jo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 1:20 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Men at births Noises during birth ARE similar to sex I think...not that I eaves drop that often! ;o) I think when people think of birthing positions and facial expressions not being 'ladylike' I often want to say it doesn't seem to bother people at the other end of the equation! -being conception! Thanks to cosmo and cleo we can now all feel comfortable with orgasim and the such...saw the headline for an article called heads up on going down gawd even made me blush! But when it comes to birth we are far more comfortable with the quiet well behaved serene woman. Just think, the lay back and think of england sex of years gone by has changed to be empowering, fulfilling and activebut birth has so far to go! Jo SA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Miriam Hannay Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 10:49 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Men at births I'm with you, Megan! To give birth to a beloved child is the ultimate expression of the emotional and sexual love my husband and I share. He described me during labour and birth as being 'awesome, powerful, sexy, strong, more beautiful than ever before'. He even commented that the involuntary noises I made during birth were similar to the noises I make during orgasm! Obviously, such an experience relies on the nature of the birth itself, We had three babes at home and one in hospital, all beautiful physiological births with no intervention. With regard retaining your 'sexual mystery', I'm not quite sure what there is about sex and sexuality that's 'mysterious'. If a couple's sexual relationship is open, honest, loving and passionate, does there need to be any 'mystery'? To me this smacks a little of patriarchal notions of women's role as sexual object... Gee, I hope my husband doesn't find anything about me mysterious after fourteen
