[ozmidwifery] ossification?

[Janet Fraser]

Hi all,
Are there actually any studies into when/if it occurs? I've seen an 
increasing number of women lately being told they *have* to have an ERC at 41 
weeks or the baby will be too rigid to mold. Puh-lease! Any good sources I can 
share about this?TIA
J
Joyous Birth Home Birth 
Forum - a world first!http://www.joyousbirth.info/forums/
 
Accessing Artemis Birth 
Trauma Recoveryhttp://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/accessingartemis

Re: [ozmidwifery] Absolutely horrified!

[Honey Acharya]

She can certainly go to any public hospital, if she 
gets a chance it would be better to go in and at least get one appointment so 
that they have a file for her, but if she goes into labour before that's 
possible they can't turn her away!
 
I spoke to a woman yesterday who had just her first 
private OB appointment and he told her he would have to put her in the naughtly 
corner!!! For asking questions. Thankfully she's not putting up with that sort 
of treatment and is finding out about her other options and probably going 
public with a midwives team.
 
I hope she gets all the support she 
needs.
 
Honey

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Tania 
  Smallwood 
  To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
  
  Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2005 4:47 
  PM
  Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Absolutely 
  horrified!
  
  
  Oh my 
  goodness…
   
  Can you refer this 
  woman to a midwife, doula, midwifery student, birthing centre, anyone out 
  there who might be able to support her?  She certainly has every right to 
  rock up to a public hospital in labour, but if she’s going to do that 
  unannounced, she might feel more comfortable doing it with some support 
  nearby…
   
  Hope she finds the 
  strength to make changes this late on in the piece, which might ensure she 
  gets the support, and the birth she deserves…
   
  Tania
   
  
  
  
  
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kelly @ 
  BellyBellySent: Sunday, 20 
  November 2005 3:15 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] Absolutely 
  horrified!
   
  One of the girls in my forums here 
  in Melbourne 
  just posted this – no wonder she seemed upset when I saw her yesterday – I had 
  no idea at the time:
   
  “I have just 
  had the worst night of my life, and its taken me 3 hours to stop crying 
  uncontrollably. My Dr, who I've been 
  seeing throughout my pg is on leave (bereavement), and since I'm at 41 weeks, 
  the midwives I'm seeing sent me to see the OB 
  who's filling in for him. So I go for my 
  appt. First, he does a stretch & 
  sweep without asking me or any prior warning. Then he says he's booking me in to be induced tomorrow, which 
  when I questioned it he tells me I'm going to kill my baby cos I'm past 41 
  weeks. The he goes on to say 'I'm not 
  into any of that airy fairy [EMAIL PROTECTED] You'll deliver on the bed, on your back. 
  I'm not a vet.' So I said I was planning 
  an active birth, (which is what my Dr prefers) and he says I'll have to see someone else and good luck 
  getting in to see anyone else at this stage of the game. So now I have no obstetrician, no doctor and I don't know what 
  I'm going to do. I'm seriously thinkg about fronting up tomorrow at the Royal 
  Womens to see if I can have my baby there instead of the hospital I'm booked 
  in at - can they turn you away if its a public 
  hospital?”
   
  This is appalling – beyond belief… 
  my blood is boiling it really is…. 
   
  Best Regards,Kelly 
  ZanteyDirector, www.bellybelly.com.au & 
  www.toys4tikes.com.auGentle 
  Solutions For Conception, Pregnancy, Birth & BabyAustralian Little 
  Tikes Specialists 
   

[ozmidwifery] rooming in

[islips]

I wonder if someone can help me put together some 
stats regarding 'rooming in' . I work at a large private hospital in Perth . We 
recently closed our night nursery and implemented a 'rooming in policy'. This 
has worked very well in enhancing BF , mothercrafting etc. However due to 3 
mothers and 3 obs complaining it looks as though we will have to change the 
policy. we have a meeting on tuesday and i would like to present some current 
research to the medical profession regarding the benefits of rooming 
in.
thanks
zoe

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Mary 
  Murphy 
  To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
  
  Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 7:28 
  AM
  Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] question
  
  
  Jenny, could you give 
  us the reference please?  Thanks, MM
   
  
  
  
  
  
  “, one 
  study demonstrated zero oxygen, because there is no longer any utero-placental 
  circulation. This is part of the stimulation for the baby to breathe, but the 
  baby is receiving some circulatory volume. “
  
   
  
  Jennifer Cameron FRCNA 
  FACM

RE: [ozmidwifery] Absolutely horrified!

[Tania Smallwood]

Oh my goodness…

 

Can you refer this woman to a midwife,
doula, midwifery student, birthing centre, anyone out there who might be able
to support her?  She certainly has every right to rock up to a public
hospital in labour, but if she’s going to do that unannounced, she might
feel more comfortable doing it with some support nearby…

 

Hope she finds the strength to make
changes this late on in the piece, which might ensure she gets the support, and
the birth she deserves…

 

Tania

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Kelly @ BellyBelly
Sent: Sunday, 20 November 2005
3:15 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Absolutely
horrified!



 

One of the girls in my forums here in Melbourne just posted this – no wonder
she seemed upset when I saw her yesterday – I had no idea at the time:

 

“I have just had the worst night
of my life, and its taken me 3 hours to stop crying uncontrollably. 

My Dr, who I've been seeing throughout my pg is on leave
(bereavement), and since I'm at 41 weeks, the midwives I'm seeing sent me to
see the OB who's filling in for him. 

So I go for my appt. 

First, he does a stretch & sweep without asking me or
any prior warning. 

Then he says he's booking me in to be induced tomorrow,
which when I questioned it he tells me I'm going to kill my baby cos I'm past
41 weeks. 

The he goes on to say 'I'm not into any of that airy
fairy [EMAIL PROTECTED] You'll deliver on the bed, on your back. I'm not a vet.' 

So I said I was planning an active birth, (which is what
my Dr prefers) 
and he says I'll have to see someone else and good luck
getting in to see anyone else at this stage of the game. 

So now I have no obstetrician, no doctor and I don't know
what I'm going to do. I'm seriously thinkg about fronting up tomorrow at the
Royal Womens to see if I can have my baby there instead of the hospital I'm
booked in at - can they turn you away if its a public hospital?”

 

This is appalling – beyond
belief… my blood is boiling it really is…. 

 

Best
Regards,

Kelly Zantey
Director, www.bellybelly.com.au & www.toys4tikes.com.au
Gentle Solutions For Conception, Pregnancy, Birth & Baby
Australian Little Tikes Specialists 

 

[ozmidwifery] Absolutely horrified!

[Kelly @ BellyBelly]

One of the girls in my forums here in Melbourne just posted this – no wonder
she seemed upset when I saw her yesterday – I had no idea at the time:

 

“I have just had the worst night
of my life, and its taken me 3 hours to stop crying uncontrollably. 

My Dr, who I've been seeing throughout my pg is on leave
(bereavement), and since I'm at 41 weeks, the midwives I'm seeing sent me to
see the OB who's filling in for him. 

So I go for my appt. 

First, he does a stretch & sweep without asking me or
any prior warning. 

Then he says he's booking me in to be induced tomorrow,
which when I questioned it he tells me I'm going to kill my baby cos I'm past
41 weeks. 

The he goes on to say 'I'm not into any of that airy
fairy [EMAIL PROTECTED] You'll deliver on the bed, on your back. I'm not a vet.' 

So I said I was planning an active birth, (which is what
my Dr prefers) 
and he says I'll have to see someone else and good luck
getting in to see anyone else at this stage of the game. 

So now I have no obstetrician, no doctor and I don't know
what I'm going to do. I'm seriously thinkg about fronting up tomorrow at the
Royal Womens to see if I can have my baby there instead of the hospital I'm
booked in at - can they turn you away if its a public hospital?”

 

This is appalling – beyond
belief… my blood is boiling it really is…. 

 

Best
Regards,

Kelly Zantey
Director, www.bellybelly.com.au & www.toys4tikes.com.au
Gentle Solutions For Conception, Pregnancy, Birth & Baby
Australian Little Tikes Specialists 

 

RE: [ozmidwifery] question - lodging complaints

[Dean & Jo]

This is an interesting thread that I must comment on again:

With the consumer support I have been involved with for the many years I
have and just in the year I have been a doula,  the definition of a
negative experience is so varied!  What I would deem as a great natural
vaginal birth with no tears etc have been described as hideous by a few
women.  I know women who have had a cs that were totally unwarranted but
LOVED themwhat some think (rightly) as abuse can be accepted as
others as normal.

The point being, people writing in about the trauma they suffered during
birth can encompass such a diversity of experiences.  Who actually
defines what a negative experience is?  Is it the care given by the MW
or OB or how they deliver that care?  They could be a sweet as pie as
they cut peris for no more than routine reasons resulting in long term
incontinence issues.  If the woman trusts them and likes them then is it
abuse?  What if an arrogant or just a forthright OB or MW comes in and
demands a woman to get up off the bed and squat to birth which results
in the woman having intense ctx and a baby? Is the way she was spoken to
the determining factor or the fact that she was able to birth the baby
without the need of any needless medical intervention?  

Or perhaps the birth I was at last night would be a good example:
beautiful natural birth with a first time mum who had a small tear in
the vaginal wall and external surface tearing.  She required suturing
which was done by the birth centre staff.  Local was used but this woman
was so scarred and traumatized she screamed for 20 minutes like I have
never heard anyone scream before.  Her pain was amplified by her fear
and the gas she used.  We were trying to do the right thing by her but
never before have I felt like I had been involved with the assault on
another human being.  She was being told by the two (wonderful) midwives
(so no insinuation of them being to blame for this as they were really
wonderful women) and her poor husband what to do and so on which scared
her and confused her more.  I held her hand and let the tears run down
my face as she sobbed my name.  Did we abuse her? How do we define what
is abuse on another?  How does the people who we write to evaluate this?
How do we define what is unacceptable to me but fine with the woman
birthing in the other room?

I don’t like any medical person telling me what to do: suggestions and
advice is fine.  But what about the woman who can not make decisions
without firm guidance?  Is it guidance or is it authorative?  There are
times when we all just want someone to make the decision for us as we
can not or don’t know everything that we need to know to make the
decision.  

I am not adverse to writing inn with a complaint of a care provider. I
am in my eight year of letter writing and responding!!  I KNOW that if
people don’t write in a and say something then no changes can be
made...but again I come back to the diversity of perceptions.  How do I
know the person reading my letters didn’t have a baby die because no one
gave her a cs when needed?  How is she going to respond to me bitching
about getting a cs for no reason?  

Sorry, rambling! Still processing last night and also catching up on
sleep.  Another due last week so could go tonight!
Love Jo (B)

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Justine
Caines
Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2005 1:19 PM
To: OzMid List
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] question - lodging complaints


Hi Jo and All
The disclaimer from what you have said was to indemnify the Ob from
responsibility of a stuff up and it was as a response to refusal to c/s
with that logic he has acted totally against the parents wishes by
performing that episiotomy.  I think having signed that form they have
more to argue, ie they were making the decisions and taking
responsibility.  They made it clear what their wishes were, the husband
asked him to stop and he did not.  I believe he has a case to answer re
the evidence of 'cranial haemorrhage' etc etc and what benefit was
achieved through such an assault.

It may be worthwhile contacting Andrew Bissets at John Hunter Hospital
re some facts (from an Ob) re vaginal breech as he has assisted over
400, he may have some ammo re the epis.  Let me know if you want his
e-mail.

I agree with Andrea evey couple up to making a complaint should be
supported to.  The former HCC Commissioner in NSW agreed with what we
said about the broken maternity system and yet said what can I do with
13 complaints for 86,000 births! She had a point.

JC
xxx


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[ozmidwifery] insurance question

[Jennifairy]

Hi there, looking for some info re. provision of insurance for midwives 
*just* doing postnatal community care.

Does it exist? Who would I contact  insurance co. wise?
Ive been offered some work doing postnatal follow-ups for women that 
have availed themselves of 'early discharge', & Im thinking that if Im 
looking for PI insurance that doesnt include birth, it might be gettable?

Any ideas?
cheers
jennfairy

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Re: [ozmidwifery] question - lodging complaints

[Justine Caines]

Hi Jo and All

The disclaimer from what you have said was to indemnify the Ob from
responsibility of a stuff up and it was as a response to refusal to c/s
with that logic he has acted totally against the parents wishes by
performing that episiotomy.  I think having signed that form they have more
to argue, ie they were making the decisions and taking responsibility.  They
made it clear what their wishes were, the husband asked him to stop and he
did not.  I believe he has a case to answer re the evidence of 'cranial
haemorrhage' etc etc and what benefit was achieved through such an assault.

It may be worthwhile contacting Andrew Bissets at John Hunter Hospital re
some facts (from an Ob) re vaginal breech as he has assisted over 400, he
may have some ammo re the epis.  Let me know if you want his e-mail.

I agree with Andrea evey couple up to making a complaint should be supported
to.  The former HCC Commissioner in NSW agreed with what we said about the
broken maternity system and yet said what can I do with 13 complaints for
86,000 births! She had a point.

JC
xxx


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RE: [ozmidwifery] question

[Carol Van Lochem]

That is exactly what is happening where I work due to one of our new Drs having been taught not to wait for restitution & now we seem to have a "dystocia" every week (sigh)


From: "Tania Smallwood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auTo: Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] questionDate: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 16:11:01 +1030








My goodness me –“not wait for restitution”, strikes me as someone trying to redefine the mechanism of normal birth to suit their own fears and prejudices - Wow!  So if in fact a baby needs to restitute to birth the shoulders comfortably and in the best position, and we’re going to cut that part of the birth out, are we not going to see a marked increase in the incidence of shoulder dystocia?   Might be one to look out for with these hasty practitioners. 
 
 
 
Tania
 
 




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan CudlippSent: Thursday, 17 November 2005 3:33 PMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] question
 

Good point Anne!

 

I did quite a thorough search last night and have printed off some good articles which I will pass on.  However I could not find the answer to why EXACTLY babies die in shoulder dystocia.  If it is asphyxia, then (obs point of view) this proves that the cord is not sustaining them. The ob said to me that if the cord WERE sustaining them there would be no urgency to deliver the body, also quoted from the ALSO course that the fetal Ph drops 0.04 (?)  per minute after delivery of head therefor we should not be waiting for restitution but delivering body ASAP.  (I didn't even go there!!)

My feeling is that it is more to do with probable cord compression, (although I cannot picture why this should necessarily be so as the body and hence, presumably, the cord, would still be above the pelvic brim) and trauma to the neck usually caused by mis-management (panic) in trying to deliver the shoulders than asphyxia, but it is true that they become asphyxiated within a short time if truly stuck.  Any answers on that one?

Thanks

Sue

 

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund Burke


- Original Message - 

From: Anne Clarke 

To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 

Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 5:54 AM

Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] question

 

Dear Susan,

 

You could say to them if this is so why do they rely so much on cord ph's ?  One would think when the baby was born and the pulsating cord was still not supplying the baby effectively the cord blood (venous and arterial) was null and void to provide an estimation of oxygenation for the babe.

 

RegardsAnne ClarkeQueensland


- Original Message - 

From: Susan Cudlipp 

To: midwifery list 

Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 9:30 PM

Subject: [ozmidwifery] question

 

I have a question for you wise ozmidders.

I was having a discussion today with one of our obstetricians regarding cord clamping, and the benefits to the baby of delaying this until pulsations cease.  When I mentioned the benefit of the baby recieving oxygenated blood via the pulsating cord which could assist it's transition to independent respiration particularly if it was compromised (etc etc)  the obs was of the view that the pulsations could NOT be providing oxygenated blood because the uterus would have contracted down and the placenta could no longer be getting oxygen from mother's circulation.

Now I know that I have read reams on this and this is stated to be one of the benefits, but I could not answer that particular question physiologically and convincingly.

The point was also raised that in shoulder dystocia, babies die of asphyxiation, which (obs opinion) would not happen if they were recieving oxygen via the cord. 

I did print off George Morley's excellent papers for this Dr to read but would very much welcome anything that can show that the baby would still be receiving oxygenated blood post birth.

 

TIA

Sue

 

 

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund Burke
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Re: [ozmidwifery] question

[JoFromOz]

Mary Murphy wrote:

  
  

  
  
  Jenny, could
you give us the reference
please?  Thanks, MM
   
  
  
  
  
  
  “, one study
demonstrated zero oxygen, because there is no longer any
utero-placental
circulation. This is part of the stimulation for the baby to breathe,
but the
baby is receiving some circulatory volume. “
  
  
   
  
  
  Jennifer Cameron FRCNA FACM
  
  
  
  

Even if there is no oxygen, I am sure it is still beneficial for the
baby to have that volume, though.

Jo