RE: [ozmidwifery] Weight gain in pregnancy
Hi Amanda, As I said, the risks are small, and decreasing all the time. I was stating that the information that we have (about toxins being released into the blood streamwhen weight is lost by women who are breast feeding) should be a caution to anyone who wishes to intentionally lose a large amount of weight when pregnant or breast feeding.I would never ever suggest that women should stop breastfeeding because of fear of these toxins, unless the risk outweighed the benefits, and I would not be the judge of that. Kind regards, Nicole. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of SynnesSent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 6:02 PMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Weight gain in pregnancy I was always told that one of the best ways to get rid of extra pregnancy kilo's (usually stored as fat)was to breastfeed? whether your start weightat the beginning of pregnancy was110kg or 50kgthere will be excess fatin the body, should we stop breastfeedingfor fear of these toxins? Some women like me (luckily, but only for the first month) lose weight after giving birth very rapidly without even trying, I droped 18kg in two weeks after my second baby was born (I am also overweight). Mothers and Mothers-to-be have enough stress as it is without this, I say- baby healthy, mum healthy then job well done on her behalf! Aren't theremore toxins in the air we breath than thosereleased by fat cells inweight loss? Amanda - Original Message - From: Nicole Carver To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 1:34 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Weight gain in pregnancy Hi all,I have been through my lactation textbooks, which are getting a bit ancient I must admit, regarding the safety or otherwise of dieting in pregnancy question. I was able to find a reference to toxins in breastmilk in Breastfeeding Matters by Maureen Minchin on p28-30 "A baby's exposure to toxins may be increased if his mother diets sufficiently to break down body fat during lactation, as fat-soluble chemicals may be excreted in milk. Hence mothers should not aim at rapid weight loss during lactation. " It is easier for chemicals to get to the foetus than it is for them to get to breast fed infants, so one may assume that there is some degree of risk during pregnancy from dieting IF there are pesticides in the mother's fat stores. It may be difficult to assess the degree of risk for a particular woman, but loss of large amounts of fat, particularly fat that has been there a long time,during pregnancy may be inadvisable. I have been trawling through some websites I obtained from a google search and it seems that pesticides in human milk (and presumably in everyone's bodies) are dropping, as many have been banned from use. However the number of sites that I found indicate that this has been of concern to many poeple. Worth a look, but I think the risks are fairly small unless a woman has been working with the chemicals herself or perhaps if she lives on a farm where they have used a lot of these chemicals in the past (they take a long time to break down). On the other side of the coin, I did some searches about dieting in pregnancy and came up with this website for plus-size women:http://www.plus-size-pregnancy.org/Dieting_and_Pregnancy.html#Dieting%20During%20Pregnancy The other websites which mentioned dieting in pregnancy advised against it due to the additional nutritional requirements of the mother due to the needs of the fetus and physiological changes in the mother. Personally, I always lose weight (up to 10kg) at the start of my pregnancies due to 'morning sickness'. I usually regain this weight, plus a little more, mainly in the last month. My pregnancy outcomes seem to be fine (kids now 7-19 years old). From all of this I think it probably inadvisable to lose large amounts of weight during pregnancy, and particularly for women who may have had exposure to harmful chemicals. However, a smallweight loss, such as that achieved by Judy's friend (6kg), particularly if they are gradual, might be OK. It seems like an area that could do with some more research, however, it is not a topic that lends itself to a randomised controlled trial! Regards, Nicole. No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.23/243 - Release Date: 1/27/2006
Re: [ozmidwifery] Weight gain in pregnancy
Hi Brenda Thanks for that. After I posted I started thinking about it a little bit more and I worked out where I was going wrong! All I could remember learning from books etc is that pregnancy is the worst time to try and lose weight, but as you say, a healthier diet will of course lead to weight loss in obese women, pregnant or not. Looks like I may have opened another can of worms...oops! Kylie From: brendamanning [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Weight gain in pregnancy Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 13:19:08 +1100 Kylie, Maternal weight gain is determined largely by diet (intake, quality absorption) plus lifestyle (ie level of activity, substance abuse, It is in no way related to fetal growth. Weight gain during pregnancy is largely maternal. Some women are large, well nourished, healthy, fit active. Other large women are inactive actually poorly nourished with inadequate diets. I think you are confusing the quality of diet with the quantity which cause the weight gain. Some women lose weight in pregnancy because they are conscious they are growing a baby adjust their diet to a healthy intake of nutritious foods away from their usual fat, CHO preservative high diet. They are actually better nourished than when non pregnant but leaner. Mothers who are malnourished usually produce LBW infants, this is unrelated to their weight gain. Unhealthy lifestyles inadequate diet will dictate reduced fetal brain growth or potential as opposed to fetal weight gain. A large baby is not necessarily a healthy one. It's about quality not quantity fetal growth as measured regularly by the same practitioner will soon pick up the baby who isn't growing. Here is one of the big advantages of continuity of caregiver, IUGR or SGA is picked up much more quickly by the same hands feeling a baby each visit than a series of different people palpating. With kind regards Brenda Manning www.themidwife.com.au - Original Message - From: Kylie Holden [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 12:14 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Weight gain in pregnancy Thanks Sally-Anne I guess that's what I get for reading too many textbooks! I did think it would be an individual thing, but wasn't sure. Feeling more reassured about my friend now...thanks! Kylie From: Sally-Anne Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Weight gain in pregnancy Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 11:28:22 +1100 Dear Kylie I think it can be individual. I have been caring for a woman who is normally 110 kgs and usually loses weight (14-15 kgs) with each pregnancy and the babies are fine. I guess it is done to how the woman is feeling in herself and how bub palps etc. Kind Regards Sally-Anne - Original Message - From: Kylie Holden [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 10:38 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Weight gain in pregnancy I have another question for you all! I know a woman who is pregnant, currently about 27 weeks. She has been told by her doctor that as she is very overweight (100+kg) she should put on as little weight as possible during pregnancy. At 27 weeks she has only put on three quarters of a kilo, and doctor is very pleased! I didn't know what to say to her. Is such a small weight gain safe for the baby? According to the textbooks, average weight gain is 3-4kgs in the first 20 weeks and then half a kilo every week after that (of course, wide variances occur and every woman is different), but the books that I have don't say if it's different for obese women. Less than a kilo of weight gain at 27 weeks...any thoughts? Thanks Kylie _ realestate.com.au: the biggest address in property http://ninemsn.realestate.com.au -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.23/242 - Release Date: 26/01/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.23/242 - Release Date: 26/01/2006 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. _ Get FOXTEL this Summer New low install price of only $29.95 http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fadsfac%2Enet%2Flink%2Easp%3Fcc%3DFXT018%2E19119%2E0%26clk%3D1%26creativeID%3D28172_t=752582449_m=EXT -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list
RE: [ozmidwifery] Weight gain in pregnancy
I think I can understand where Nicole is coming from, or maybe this is just another angle...you read so many stories in women's magazines (not that I read them :) ) about celebrities and how quickly they lose weight after pregnancy, and I always wonder how much of a negative impact this may have on women who think they need to imitate these celebrities to still look sexy. Body image etc can be a big thing for some women and I hate to think of women losing weight quickly (and potentially dangerously?) after pregnancy by going on really low-cal, low-card diets, just like such-and-such did. Kylie From: Nicole Carver [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Weight gain in pregnancy Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 19:50:20 +1100 Hi Amanda, As I said, the risks are small, and decreasing all the time. I was stating that the information that we have (about toxins being released into the blood stream when weight is lost by women who are breast feeding) should be a caution to anyone who wishes to intentionally lose a large amount of weight when pregnant or breast feeding. I would never ever suggest that women should stop breastfeeding because of fear of these toxins, unless the risk outweighed the benefits, and I would not be the judge of that. Kind regards, Nicole. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Synnes Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 6:02 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Weight gain in pregnancy I was always told that one of the best ways to get rid of extra pregnancy kilo's (usually stored as fat) was to breastfeed? whether your start weight at the beginning of pregnancy was 110kg or 50kg there will be excess fat in the body, should we stop breastfeeding for fear of these toxins? Some women like me (luckily, but only for the first month) lose weight after giving birth very rapidly without even trying, I droped 18kg in two weeks after my second baby was born (I am also overweight). Mothers and Mothers-to-be have enough stress as it is without this, I say- baby healthy, mum healthy then job well done on her behalf! Aren't there more toxins in the air we breath than those released by fat cells in weight loss? Amanda - Original Message - From: Nicole Carver To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 1:34 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Weight gain in pregnancy Hi all, I have been through my lactation textbooks, which are getting a bit ancient I must admit, regarding the safety or otherwise of dieting in pregnancy question. I was able to find a reference to toxins in breastmilk in Breastfeeding Matters by Maureen Minchin on p28-30 A baby's exposure to toxins may be increased if his mother diets sufficiently to break down body fat during lactation, as fat-soluble chemicals may be excreted in milk. Hence mothers should not aim at rapid weight loss during lactation. It is easier for chemicals to get to the foetus than it is for them to get to breast fed infants, so one may assume that there is some degree of risk during pregnancy from dieting IF there are pesticides in the mother's fat stores. It may be difficult to assess the degree of risk for a particular woman, but loss of large amounts of fat, particularly fat that has been there a long time, during pregnancy may be inadvisable. I have been trawling through some websites I obtained from a google search and it seems that pesticides in human milk (and presumably in everyone's bodies) are dropping, as many have been banned from use. However the number of sites that I found indicate that this has been of concern to many poeple. Worth a look, but I think the risks are fairly small unless a woman has been working with the chemicals herself or perhaps if she lives on a farm where they have used a lot of these chemicals in the past (they take a long time to break down). On the other side of the coin, I did some searches about dieting in pregnancy and came up with this website for plus-size women: http://www.plus-size-pregnancy.org/Dieting_and_Pregnancy.html#Dieting%20Duri ng%20Pregnancy The other websites which mentioned dieting in pregnancy advised against it due to the additional nutritional requirements of the mother due to the needs of the fetus and physiological changes in the mother. Personally, I always lose weight (up to 10kg) at the start of my pregnancies due to 'morning sickness'. I usually regain this weight, plus a little more, mainly in the last month. My pregnancy outcomes seem to be fine (kids now 7-19 years old). From all of this I think it probably inadvisable to lose large amounts of weight during pregnancy, and particularly for women who may have had exposure to harmful chemicals. However, a small weight loss, such as that achieved by Judy's friend (6kg), particularly if
RE: [ozmidwifery] Weight gain in pregnancy
Hi all, I'm amidwifery student, and last semester completed an assignment on nutrition and weight gain in pregnancy. I repeatedly foundliterature that advised against losing weight in pregnancy because of all of the reasons that have already beendiscussed on this thread, such as the release of toxins, and the factthat an "overweight" woman does not necessarily mean someone who is less healthy than someone who is deemed "slim". The key seemed to be adequate nutrition more than anything else. I found aguideline that recommended that women who had a BMI of less than 19.8 should gain between 12.5 to 18kg, BMI 19.8 - 26 (11.5-16kg) BMI 26-29 (7-11.5kg) and BMI larger than 29 (at least 7kg). I dont have a reference for this info, but am happy to share other references i found for the assignment. Samantha ---Original Message--- From: Nicole Carver Date: 01/29/06 20:13:02 To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Weight gain in pregnancy Hi Amanda, As I said, the risks are small, and decreasing all the time. I was stating that the information that we have (about toxins being released into the blood streamwhen weight is lost by women who are breast feeding) should be a caution to anyone who wishes to intentionally lose a large amount of weight when pregnant or breast feeding.I would never ever suggest that women should stop breastfeeding because of fear of these toxins, unless the risk outweighed the benefits, and I would not be the judge of that. Kind regards, Nicole. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of SynnesSent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 6:02 PMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Weight gain in pregnancy I was always told that one of the best ways to get rid of extra pregnancy kilo's (usually stored as fat)was to breastfeed? whether your start weightat the beginning of pregnancy was110kg or 50kgthere will be excess fatin the body, should we stop breastfeedingfor fear of these toxins? Some women like me (luckily, but only for the first month) lose weight after giving birth very rapidly without even trying, I droped 18kg in two weeks after my second baby was born (I am also overweight). Mothers and Mothers-to-be have enough stress as it is without this, I say- baby healthy, mum healthy then job well done on her behalf! Aren't theremore toxins in the air we breath than thosereleased by fat cells inweight loss? Amanda - Original Message - From: Nicole Carver To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 1:34 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Weight gain in pregnancy Hi all,I have been through my lactation textbooks, which are getting a bit ancient I must admit, regarding the safety or otherwise of dieting in pregnancy question. I was able to find a reference to toxins in breastmilk in Breastfeeding Matters by Maureen Minchin on p28-30 "A baby's exposure to toxins may be increased if his mother diets sufficiently to break down body fat during lactation, as fat-soluble chemicals may be excreted in milk. Hence mothers should not aim at rapid weight loss during lactation. " It is easier for chemicals to get to the foetus than it is for them to get to breast fed infants, so one may assume that there is some degree of risk during pregnancy from dieting IF there are pesticides in the mother's fat stores. It may be difficult to assess the degree of risk for a particular woman, but loss of large amounts of fat, particularly fat that has been there a long time,during pregnancy may be inadvisable. I have been trawling through some websites I obtained from a google search and it seems that pesticides in human milk (and presumably in everyone's bodies) are dropping, as many have been banned from use. However the number of sites that I found indicate that this has been of concern to many poeple. Worth a look, but I think the risks are fairly small unless a woman has been working with the chemicals herself or perhaps if she lives on a farm where they have used a lot of these chemicals in the past (they take a long time to break down). On the other side of the coin, I did some searches about dieting in pregnancy and came up with this website for plus-size women:http://www.plus-size-pregnancy.org/Dieting_and_Pregnancy.html#Dieting%20During%20Pregnancy The other websites which mentioned dieting in pregnancy advised against it due to the additional nutritional requirements of the mother due to the needs of the fetus and physiological changes in the mother. Personally, I always lose weight (up to 10kg) at the start of my pregnancies due to 'morning sickness'. I usually regain this weight, plus a little more, mainly in the last month. My pregnancy outcomes seem to be fine (kids now 7-19 years old). From all of this I think it probably inadvisable to lose large amounts of weight during pregnancy, and particularly for women who may have had exposure to harmful chemicals.
[ozmidwifery] Intro...
Hi Everyone, My name is Mel and I have just started my post grad mid in WA. I'm a keen ozmid reader and have read all the debates with great interest over the last few years. Am very excited (but a little nervous) about the year ahead, so all tips for survival in a big hospital are gladly taken!! Am looking forward to chatting and exchanging info with you all. Cheers Mel
RE: [ozmidwifery] Weight gain in pregnancy
HiSamantha, Thanks for that info. We have a new computer programme at my workplace called BOS. It calculates women's BMIs (amongst other things), so this will be interesting for us to look at. Regards, Nicole. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Samantha SayeSent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 8:35 PMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Weight gain in pregnancy Hi all, I'm amidwifery student, and last semester completed an assignment on nutrition and weight gain in pregnancy. I repeatedly foundliterature that advised against losing weight in pregnancy because of all of the reasons that have already beendiscussed on this thread, such as the release of toxins, and the factthat an "overweight" woman does not necessarily mean someone who is less healthy than someone who is deemed "slim". The key seemed to be adequate nutrition more than anything else. I found aguideline that recommended that women who had a BMI of less than 19.8 should gain between 12.5 to 18kg, BMI 19.8 - 26 (11.5-16kg) BMI 26-29 (7-11.5kg) and BMI larger than 29 (at least 7kg). I dont have a reference for this info, but am happy to share other references i found for the assignment. Samantha ---Original Message--- From: Nicole Carver Date: 01/29/06 20:13:02 To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Weight gain in pregnancy Hi Amanda, As I said, the risks are small, and decreasing all the time. I was stating that the information that we have (about toxins being released into the blood streamwhen weight is lost by women who are breast feeding) should be a caution to anyone who wishes to intentionally lose a large amount of weight when pregnant or breast feeding.I would never ever suggest that women should stop breastfeeding because of fear of these toxins, unless the risk outweighed the benefits, and I would not be the judge of that. Kind regards, Nicole. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of SynnesSent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 6:02 PMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Weight gain in pregnancy I was always told that one of the best ways to get rid of extra pregnancy kilo's (usually stored as fat)was to breastfeed? whether your start weightat the beginning of pregnancy was110kg or 50kgthere will be excess fatin the body, should we stop breastfeedingfor fear of these toxins? Some women like me (luckily, but only for the first month) lose weight after giving birth very rapidly without even trying, I droped 18kg in two weeks after my second baby was born (I am also overweight). Mothers and Mothers-to-be have enough stress as it is without this, I say- baby healthy, mum healthy then job well done on her behalf! Aren't theremore toxins in the air we breath than thosereleased by fat cells inweight loss? Amanda - Original Message - From: Nicole Carver To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 1:34 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Weight gain in pregnancy Hi all,I have been through my lactation textbooks, which are getting a bit ancient I must admit, regarding the safety or otherwise of dieting in pregnancy question. I was able to find a reference to toxins in breastmilk in Breastfeeding Matters by Maureen Minchin on p28-30 "A baby's exposure to toxins may be increased if his mother diets sufficiently to break down body fat during lactation, as fat-soluble chemicals may be excreted in milk. Hence mothers should not aim at rapid weight loss during lactation. " It is easier for chemicals to get to the foetus than it is for them to get to breast fed infants, so one may assume that there is some degree of risk during pregnancy from dieting IF there are pesticides in the mother's fat stores. It may be difficult to assess the degree of risk for a particular woman, but loss of large amounts of fat, particularly fat that has been there a long time,during pregnancy may be inadvisable. I have been trawling through some websites I obtained from a
[ozmidwifery] co sleeping with a 7 yo
This is more of a parenting issue than a mid issue but i value any input at this stage. My 7 yo son still sleeps with me every night, although he will occasionally snuggle in with his 9 yo sister. I have never worried about it, as i figure he won't be there when he's 18. But my ex mother in law has started mentioning a psychology study thatsays boys who sleep with their mothers for such a long time end up with mother issues, and are abusive and violent to theri partners whne they get older. I might add that this is the same woman who was horrified that i fed both my babies till they were happy to give it up at 2 years plus. She has now got a small part of worried that i could be creating a real problem. Help! Pauline
RE: [ozmidwifery] co sleeping with a 7 yo
Hi Pauline, This response is coming from a mother perspective rather than a mid perspective, but I thought I'd contribute anyway. My nearly seven year old happily co-slept with us until she was getting kicked off the bedby her younger siblings...and her sisters now fill the bed and we merrily go on our way! Comments like your ex mother in law made are really hurtful not to mention ignorantand are probably more to do with her own insecurities rather than any evidence based research on the subject. Co sleeping can be wonderful, and as long as it is an arrangement that suits you and your child, then don't worry and carry on what you are doing. Goodluck Mel From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of PaulineSent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 7:38 PMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] co sleeping with a 7 yo This is more of a parenting issue than a mid issue but i value any input at this stage. My 7 yo son still sleeps with me every night, although he will occasionally snuggle in with his 9 yo sister. I have never worried about it, as i figure he won't be there when he's 18. But my ex mother in law has started mentioning a psychology study thatsays boys who sleep with their mothers for such a long time end up with mother issues, and are abusive and violent to theri partners whne they get older. I might add that this is the same woman who was horrified that i fed both my babies till they were happy to give it up at 2 years plus. She has now got a small part of worried that i could be creating a real problem. Help! Pauline
RE: [ozmidwifery] co sleeping with a 7 yo
My husband used to get into bed with his mum until he was 8 and he is one of the most non-violent person I know, and has a wonderful relationship with his mother to boot. In addition, my little brother was the same. Kylie Carberry Freelance Journalist p: +61 2 42970115 m: +61 2 418220638 f: +61 2 42970747 From: "Pauline" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] co sleeping with a 7 yoDate: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 22:38:06 +1100 This is more of a parenting issue than a mid issue but i value any input at this stage. My 7 yo son still sleeps with me every night, although he will occasionally snuggle in with his 9 yo sister. I have never worried about it, as i figure he won't be there when he's 18. But my ex mother in law has started mentioning a psychology study thatsays boys who sleep with their mothers for such a long time end up with mother issues, and are abusive and violent to theri partners whne they get older. I might add that this is the same woman who was horrified that i fed both my babies till they were happy to give it up at 2 years plus. She has now got a small part of worried that i could be creating a real problem. Help! Pauline -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] co sleeping with a 7 yo
Pauline, Bollocks to your ex MIL - pity "ex" doesnt mean "Exit"! Recently, as I searched for some long term evidence of the benefits of parent-infant co-sleeping, I came across a study of college age subjects which found that males who had co-slept with their parents between birth and five years not only had significantly higher self esteem, they experienced less guilt and anxiety and reported greater frequency of sex. Not sure how to interpret this in light of my own kids experience now they are college age and beyond - that would be too much information! But it seems that they are most likely sleeping with somebody other than me! Enjoy the little warm body and don't bother sharing unnecessary info with your exmil. Pinky - Original Message - From: Pauline To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 10:38 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] co sleeping with a 7 yo This is more of a parenting issue than a mid issue but i value any input at this stage. My 7 yo son still sleeps with me every night, although he will occasionally snuggle in with his 9 yo sister. I have never worried about it, as i figure he won't be there when he's 18. But my ex mother in law has started mentioning a psychology study thatsays boys who sleep with their mothers for such a long time end up with mother issues, and are abusive and violent to theri partners whne they get older. I might add that this is the same woman who was horrified that i fed both my babies till they were happy to give it up at 2 years plus. She has now got a small part of worried that i could be creating a real problem. Help! Pauline
Re: [ozmidwifery] co sleeping with a 7 yo
Ask her for the study!!! I bet it is like when you ask some obs for the research of stuff they do - they can't show you cos it doesn't exist!!! Or else the study is so flawed that the results are cr*p anyway!!! :-) Katrina who is off to bed after night duty so sorry if this is a little curt!!! :-) On 29/01/2006, at 10:38 PM, Pauline wrote: x-tad-smallerThis is more of a parenting issue than a mid issue but i value any input at this stage. My 7 yo son still sleeps with me every night, although he will occasionally snuggle in with his 9 yo sister. I have never worried about it, as i figure he won't be there when he's 18. But my ex mother in law has started mentioning a psychology study that says boys who sleep with their mothers for such a long time end up with mother issues, and are abusive and violent to theri partners whne they get older. I might add that this is the same woman who was horrified that i fed both my babies till they were happy to give it up at 2 years plus. She has now got a small part of worried that i could be creating a real problem. Help!/x-tad-smallerx-tad-smallerPauline/x-tad-smaller
Re: [ozmidwifery] Weight gain in pregnancy
Sounds interesting! Has anyone seen the latest flyer on paracetamol use from NSW health?? Apparently you have to calculate the person's Lean Body Weight!!! What the??? Made me smile...and I know that paracetamol can be quite harmful when abused, but still thinking what the??? Katrina! (going to bed know!!) :-) On 29/01/2006, at 9:12 PM, Nicole Carver wrote: HiSamantha, Thanks for that info. We have a new computer programme at my workplace called BOS. It calculates women's BMIs (amongst other things), so this will be interesting for us to look at. Regards, Nicole. x-tad-smaller-Original Message-/x-tad-smallerx-tad-smallerFrom:/x-tad-smallerx-tad-smaller [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/x-tad-smallerx-tad-smallerOn Behalf Of /x-tad-smallerx-tad-smallerSamantha Saye/x-tad-smallerx-tad-smallerSent:/x-tad-smallerx-tad-smaller Sunday, January 29, 2006 8:35 PM/x-tad-smallerx-tad-smallerTo:/x-tad-smallerx-tad-smaller ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au/x-tad-smallerx-tad-smallerSubject:/x-tad-smallerx-tad-smaller RE: [ozmidwifery] Weight gain in pregnancy/x-tad-smallerunknown.gif>Hi all, I'm a midwifery student, and last semester completed an assignment on nutrition and weight gain in pregnancy. I repeatedly found literature that advised against losing weight in pregnancy because of all of the reasons that have already been discussed on this thread, such as the release of toxins, and the fact that an overweight woman does not necessarily mean someone who is less healthy than someone who is deemed slim. The key seemed to be adequate nutrition more than anything else. I found a guideline that recommended that women who had a BMI of less than 19.8 should gain between 12.5 to 18kg, BMI 19.8 - 26 (11.5-16kg) BMI 26-29 (7-11.5kg) and BMI larger than 29 (at least 7kg). I dont have a reference for this info, but am happy to share other references i found for the assignment. Samantha ---Original Message--- x-tad-biggerFrom:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-biggerx-tad-biggerNicole Carver/x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerDate:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger 01/29/06 20:13:02/x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerTo:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-biggerx-tad-biggerozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au/x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerSubject:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger RE: [ozmidwifery] Weight gain in pregnancy/x-tad-bigger x-tad-smallerHi Amanda,/x-tad-smallerx-tad-smallerAs I said, the risks are small, and decreasing all the time. I was stating that the information that we have (about toxins being released into the blood stream when weight is lost by women who are breast feeding) should be a caution to anyone who wishes to/x-tad-smallerx-tad-smaller intentionally/x-tad-smallerx-tad-smaller lose a large amount of weight when pregnant or breast feeding. I would never ever suggest that women should stop breastfeeding because of fear of these toxins, unless the risk outweighed the benefits, and I would not be the judge of that./x-tad-smallerx-tad-smallerKind regards,/x-tad-smallerx-tad-smallerNicole./x-tad-smallerx-tad-smaller-Original Message-/x-tad-smallerx-tad-smallerFrom:/x-tad-smallerx-tad-smaller [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/x-tad-smallerx-tad-smallerOn Behalf Of /x-tad-smallerx-tad-smallerSynnes/x-tad-smallerx-tad-smallerSent:/x-tad-smallerx-tad-smaller Sunday, January 29, 2006 6:02 PM/x-tad-smallerx-tad-smallerTo:/x-tad-smallerx-tad-smaller ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au/x-tad-smallerx-tad-smallerSubject:/x-tad-smallerx-tad-smaller Re: [ozmidwifery] Weight gain in pregnancy/x-tad-smallerx-tad-smallerI was always told that one of the best ways to get rid of extra pregnancy kilo's (usually stored as fat) was to breastfeed? whether your start weight at the beginning of pregnancy was 110kg or 50kg there will be excess fat in the body, should we stop breastfeeding for fear of these toxins? Some women like me (luckily, but only for the first month) lose weight after giving birth very rapidly without even trying, I droped 18kg in two weeks after my second baby was born (I am also overweight). Mothers and Mothers-to-be have enough stress as it is without this, I say- baby healthy, mum healthy then job well done on her behalf!/x-tad-smaller x-tad-smallerAren't there more toxins in the air we breath than those released by fat cells in weight loss?/x-tad-smaller x-tad-smallerAmanda /x-tad-smallerx-tad-smaller- Original Message -/x-tad-smaller x-tad-smaller /x-tad-smallerx-tad-smallerNicole Carver/x-tad-smallerx-tad-smaller /x-tad-smaller x-tad-smaller /x-tad-smallerx-tad-smaller /x-tad-smaller x-tad-smaller Sunday, January 29, 2006 1:34 PM/x-tad-smaller x-tad-smaller RE: [ozmidwifery] Weight gain in pregnancy/x-tad-smaller Hi all, I have been through my lactation textbooks, which are getting a bit ancient I must admit, regarding the safety or otherwise of dieting in pregnancy question. I was able to find a reference to toxins in breastmilk in Breastfeeding Matters by Maureen
Re: [ozmidwifery] co sleeping with a 7 yo
What crap : ) Teaching children about emotional closeness makes them violent? Certain lack of logic there! Try this anyway: (Maybe she'd like a copy to read ; ) ) http://www.attachmentparenting.org/artbenefitscosleep.shtml Long-term Benefits Higher self-esteem. Boys who coslept with their parents between birth and five years of age had significantly higher self-esteem and experienced less guilt and anxiety. For women, co-sleeping during childhood was associated with less discomfort about physical contact and affection as adults (Lewis Janda, 1988). Co-sleeping appears to promote confidence, self-esteem, and intimacy, possibly by reflecting an attitude of parental acceptance (Crawford, 1994). More positive behavior.In a study of parents on military bases, co-sleeping children received higher evaluations from their teachers than did solitary sleeping children (Forbes et al., 1992). A recent study in England showed that among the children who "never" slept in their parents bed, there was a trend to be harder to control, less happy, exhibit a greater number of tantrums, and these children were actually more fearful than children who always slept in their parents bed, all night (Heron, 1994). Increased life satisfaction. A large, cross-cultural study conducted on five different ethnic groups in large U.S. cities found that, across all groups, co-sleepers exhibited a general feeling of satisfaction with life (Mosenkis, 1998).
RE: [ozmidwifery] Weight gain in pregnancy
Hi, Have checked my files this morning and only have a paper copy of this Newsletter (must have deleted the original emailed file). If anyone wants a copy of this Primal Health Newsletter (Vol 9, No 2 Autumn 2001), email me your name and address of the list and I will send you a copy. Cheers Andrea At 02:52 PM 29/01/2006, you wrote: Michel Odent has written quite a bit about this problem of toxins stored in fat and their release during weight loss, especially in relation to preconception care. He has even developed a strategy for preparing the body for pregnancy that involves ridding the body of these toxins - he's called it The Accordian Method. I am not in the office at present, but I can give you a reference from his Primal Health Newsletter - one issue (from memory) was devoted to these ideas. He has references as well. Will try and find it and post it to the list. Cheers Andrea At 02:04 PM 29/01/2006, you wrote: Hi all, I have been through my lactation textbooks, which are getting a bit ancient I must admit, regarding the safety or otherwise of dieting in pregnancy question. I was able to find a reference to toxins in breastmilk in Breastfeeding Matters by Maureen Minchin on p28-30 A baby's exposure to toxins may be increased if his mother diets sufficiently to break down body fat during lactation, as fat-soluble chemicals may be excreted in milk. Hence mothers should not aim at rapid weight loss during lactation. It is easier for chemicals to get to the foetus than it is for them to get to breast fed infants, so one may assume that there is some degree of risk during pregnancy from dieting IF there are pesticides in the mother's fat stores. It may be difficult to assess the degree of risk for a particular woman, but loss of large amounts of fat, particularly fat that has been there a long time, during pregnancy may be inadvisable. I have been trawling through some websites I obtained from a google search and it seems that pesticides in human milk (and presumably in everyone's bodies) are dropping, as many have been banned from use. However the number of sites that I found indicate that this has been of concern to many poeple. Worth a look, but I think the risks are fairly small unless a woman has been working with the chemicals herself or perhaps if she lives on a farm where they have used a lot of these chemicals in the past (they take a long time to break down). On the other side of the coin, I did some searches about dieting in pregnancy and came up with this website for plus-size women: http://www.plus-size-pregnancy.org/Dieting_and_Pregnancy.html#Dieting%20During%20Pregnancyhttp://www.plus-size-pregnancy.org/Dieting_and_Pregnancy.html#Dieting%20During%20Pregnancy The other websites which mentioned dieting in pregnancy advised against it due to the additional nutritional requirements of the mother due to the needs of the fetus and physiological changes in the mother. Personally, I always lose weight (up to 10kg) at the start of my pregnancies due to 'morning sickness'. I usually regain this weight, plus a little more, mainly in the last month. My pregnancy outcomes seem to be fine (kids now 7-19 years old). From all of this I think it probably inadvisable to lose large amounts of weight during pregnancy, and particularly for women who may have had exposure to harmful chemicals. However, a small weight loss, such as that achieved by Judy's friend (6kg), particularly if they are gradual, might be OK. It seems like an area that could do with some more research, however, it is not a topic that lends itself to a randomised controlled trial! Regards, Nicole. - Andrea Robertson Director Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth Education e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.birthinternational.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. - Andrea Robertson Director Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth Education e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.birthinternational.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Weight gain in pregnancy - toxins
I can recommend a book called Having Faith: an ecologist's journey to motherhood for the best info I've ever read on toxins etc. The author's surname is Steingrauber, I think. She basically concludes, as do I, that bm even with toxins is still preferable to breastmilk substitutes. Her book is a brilliant study, very gentle but powerful, showing her move from obstetric care to midwifery care and then into bf, all with her professional eye as an ecologist over the whole thing. It's truly fantastic! J -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] co sleeping with a 7 yo
Title: Message Pinky said: Not sure how to interpret this in light of my own kids experience now they are college age and beyond - that would be too much information! But it seems that they are most likely sleeping with somebody other than me! Ha Ha Ha! you do make me laugh Pinky!!! :o) cheers Jo -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.23/243 - Release Date: 1/27/2006
RE: [ozmidwifery] Weight gain in pregnancy
Sorry Nicole, but I was working on the premise gained from research and the media that a large proportion of the obesity in western society was directly linked to an increase in fats, sugars and the volume of food available along with decreasing exercise rates. There are always people with metabloic problems but I had believed they were in the minority, not the majority. The woman I spoke of chose to start eating a better diet, not 'dieting', and to increase her exercise levels. I would not be the one to tell her that she may not do that because of 'toxins'. Going back to the discussion last year on the problems of very high BMI in pregnancy and problems anticipated with births was another reason I would not tell her that she may not change her (admitted by her) previous poor dietry habits. Cheers Judy --- B G [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Given that it is usually poor diet and lifestyle that cause the obesity...Hopefully this woman has learned to clean up her lifestyle on a permanent basis for hers and future children's benefit. OOOH Judgement statement!! We are very quick to lay blame. Many of these women are victims. Victims of the Metabolic Syndrome where they quickly gain weight especially centrally, have dyslipidemia, hyperinsulinaemia which causes insulin resistance, hirsuitsm which leads to poor self esteem and other terrible symptoms. Being obese doesn't mean they cannot participate in life changing experiences such as having a baby. Another cause are often that these women are victims of childhood sexual and physical abuse hence have psychological hang ups of appearing 'pretty'. Many women I see in ANC talk about the difficulties shopping in the supermarket - the trolley Nazi's. Family get together and as she wasn't working family - sisters- gave her a shopping list for a celebration. She was stopped in the aisles and unsolicited advice was given that she shouldn't buy that ... because that would put weight on. She was all of 28 weeks pregnant wore large clothes covering her belly and I am sure this person didn't even know she was pregnant. She weighed 110kg, walked 4 km every day and did gym work so never assume anything with these ladies. There are those that really do work hard and are very aware of their physical failings. As one woman said 'we are easy targets, we can't hide the cigarettes or the drugs like others. These do more harm than eating healthy and exercise'. The toxins people allude to are you referring to ketones? Barb -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. Do you Yahoo!? Find a local business fast with Yahoo! Local Search http://au.local.yahoo.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
