Re: [ozmidwifery] Goodbyes
Why not start a yahoo group for Finnish MWs, Paivi? It's free and it comes in all languages. How excellent would that be?! I'm a big believer in starting your own group if it's needed. I can guarantee that if you feel a lack, so do others. Go for it! J - Original Message - From: Päivi To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 3:48 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Goodbyes Just a quick noteto all of you, before I run of to work. Two days ago I went to the Finnish Midwives meeting, where a hospital midwife gave a speach. She described what it was like to care for women twenty years ago, or even ten years ago, when they gave birth on their own empowered. She also described the seem in the today's hospitals with women wanting all possible drugs at the doorstep. It must be hard to work in those circumstances. But what made me really sad is, that thisparticular midwife had lost her hope for things ever changing. She seemed to have accepted, that time had changed things, and there is no going back anymore. When I got home I wrote to her and told about this list, how every day I read your encouraging commets and stories of women giving birth on their own every day in today's world. How that inspires me to beleive, that I can still change things around in my country an tomorrow can be better, than today. I received a reply from her. My letter to her had made her very happy, because she saw, that there was someone, who has the energy to beleive in the better future, to try to fight the system, to inform the parents and inspire. Obviously she hadn't sensed this for years. We don't have a single forum like this in my country, there are no homebirth conferences or such to attend. Simply there is very little change for these midwives around the country to support each other in their common goal; to provide women with evidence based practise. I think this list is the best, because I always get an onest opinion of what happens, when midwives don't give in to the policies, and work independently. And also how things can be done even in the high-risk hospital. You are the Best! Gotta go now, Don't leave sadie =) Päivi - Original Message - From: adamnamy To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 7:04 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Goodbyes I too appreciate the variety of input from all contributors. Things get a bit heated but thats life at the coalface. Our biggest challenge is not each other but an attitude that says women cant be in charge of their own bodies and make their own decisions. Lets not lose sight of that goal and get personal. We all do our bit, the bit that we can do. And always, it will vary according to our strengths and weaknesses. It would be a real shame to lose either of you. As a non midwife, I really appreciate the expertise and the perspectives that midwives working in various settings bring to the discussions. We need to know what we are up against so be honest about the challenges you face, because they become ours pretty quickly. In gratitude for your dedication, amy
[ozmidwifery] was Goodbyes now Hello!
Hello friends/colleagues/students/teachers, I've been watching this conversation with great interest. We as human beings are in the most amazing time of evolution. Midwifery is, as an intensely human activity (some would say the most primal of them all) is clearly undergoing heroic transformation. We are all being called forth to relate in new ways, from a base of personal power that enables us to hold diversity and look with wisdom at what there is to learn from everything. There are many great thinkers exploring what it means to be human at this time of extraordinary change and how we can best move forward to a future which brings out the best in each one of us. for example, (this is from the webpage) "Spiral Dynamics reveals the hidden complexity codes that shape human nature, create global diversities, and drive evolutionary change.These dynamic Spiral forces attract and repel individuals, form the webs and meshes that connect people within groups, communities and organizations, and forge the rise and fall of nations and cultures". The person who articulated the concept of Spiral Dynamics, Don Beck, has this to say. "Its not that we need to form new organizations. It's simply that we have to awaken to newways of thinking. I believe it makes no sense to spend a lot of time attacking the current realities. It is time to create the new models that have in them the complexity that makes the older systems obsolete. And to the extent that we can do that, and do that quickly, I think we can provide what will be necessary for a major breakthrough for the future." here is the website, so you can explore further: http://spiraldynamics.net/index.shtml It is good if each of us listens with great respect to each person's perspective. We need everyone's voice. It is good to listen from the position of detached observer. If it conflicts with us or how we believe things should be, all the better! That means something is being triggered within us, some neural net profile is being twanged. That is how we can learn the most. It is out of conflict that new order comes (second law of thermodynamics). The rips and the tides create the incredible beauty of the shoreline. Weneed the passion, the uppityness, the fearless belief in women and their processes and their right to choose their path. When there is dissent, we need to get excited, not leave! That is when things are changing and we need to make sure it is for the better. Remember that how we take things is about us. Sure, people seem polite or rude or whatever at times, but perception is in the eye of the beholder. It is our own neural networks and our own sensory faculties which are picking up the messages that are around us. And it is like those garage sales you see every weekend 'one man's (sic) trash is another man's (sic) treasure!' One last comment. I would encourage EVERYONE to get hold of the DVD "The Secret". "The Secret" is probably the best thing I have seen which explains Universal principles and quantum physics and how the brain/body works in a practical way. Just excellent. Our future depends upon people using these principles in an intelligent, consciousway. Go to: www.nibbana.com.au to find out more. Bring it on! Pax, Carolyn (Hastie)
[ozmidwifery] doubles
I am receiving 2 of everyones emails. Is this happening to others or just me? MM
Re: [ozmidwifery] doubles
Just singles here, Mary.Hope you're well :)xxJoOn 14/10/2006, at 4:16 PM, Mary Murphy wrote:I am receiving 2 of everyone’s emails. Is this happening to others or just me? MM
RE: [ozmidwifery] doubles
Not me Mary From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mary Murphy Sent: Saturday, 14 October 2006 4:16 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] doubles I am receiving 2 of everyones emails. Is this happening to others or just me? MM
Re: [ozmidwifery] doubles
I just seem to get two of Lisa's Melissa - Original Message - From: Mary Murphy To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 4:16 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] doubles I am receiving 2 of everyones emails. Is this happening to others or just me? MM
Re: [ozmidwifery] Goodbyes
Thank You Paivi, Your letter is quite humbling. It should make us feel ashamed of our bickering. There is a far bigger picture than the snap shot we see every day, and our little philosophical differences. WE do make a difference, We have made a difference, and we will continue to do so. It is this list that gives me the strength and hope to keep chipping away at the coalface. I feel far less alone and radical when you are all out there doing the hard work too. This is more than a job for allof us, it is a calling. Some can do more than others, some do differently than others, the important thing is WE DO! Di - Original Message - From: Päivi To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 3:48 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Goodbyes Just a quick noteto all of you, before I run of to work. Two days ago I went to the Finnish Midwives meeting, where a hospital midwife gave a speach. She described what it was like to care for women twenty years ago, or even ten years ago, when they gave birth on their own empowered. She also described the seem in the today's hospitals with women wanting all possible drugs at the doorstep. It must be hard to work in those circumstances. But what made me really sad is, that thisparticular midwife had lost her hope for things ever changing. She seemed to have accepted, that time had changed things, and there is no going back anymore. When I got home I wrote to her and told about this list, how every day I read your encouraging commets and stories of women giving birth on their own every day in today's world. How that inspires me to beleive, that I can still change things around in my country an tomorrow can be better, than today. I received a reply from her. My letter to her had made her very happy, because she saw, that there was someone, who has the energy to beleive in the better future, to try to fight the system, to inform the parents and inspire. Obviously she hadn't sensed this for years. We don't have a single forum like this in my country, there are no homebirth conferences or such to attend. Simply there is very little change for these midwives around the country to support each other in their common goal; to provide women with evidence based practise. I think this list is the best, because I always get an onest opinion of what happens, when midwives don't give in to the policies, and work independently. And also how things can be done even in the high-risk hospital. You are the Best! Gotta go now, Don't leave sadie =) Päivi - Original Message - From: adamnamy To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 7:04 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Goodbyes I too appreciate the variety of input from all contributors. Things get a bit heated but thats life at the coalface. Our biggest challenge is not each other but an attitude that says women cant be in charge of their own bodies and make their own decisions. Lets not lose sight of that goal and get personal. We all do our bit, the bit that we can do. And always, it will vary according to our strengths and weaknesses. It would be a real shame to lose either of you. As a non midwife, I really appreciate the expertise and the perspectives that midwives working in various settings bring to the discussions. We need to know what we are up against so be honest about the challenges you face, because they become ours pretty quickly. In gratitude for your dedication, amy
RE: [ozmidwifery] doubles
Oh oh, it doesnt sound good. It is up to 5 now. Ill have to get it checked. Thanks, MM From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Jo Watson Sent: Saturday, 14 October 2006 4:40 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] doubles Just singles here, Mary. Hope you're well :) xx Jo On 14/10/2006, at 4:16 PM, Mary Murphy wrote: I am receiving 2 of everyones emails. Is this happening to others or just me? MM
Re: [ozmidwifery] asthma in labour
Tia My Pharmacology for midwives makes no mention of this. However, as a young student midwife I do remember one obs. used to use bronchodilators something like 5 puffs one after the other to ' relax the cervix' to help in removal of retained placentas. To be honest it is too long ago for me to remember how effective this was. Shelly (Midwife England) - Original Message - From: Janet Fraser To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2006 11:28 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] asthma in labour Hi all, can bronchodilators, particularly ventolin, for severe asthmacause labour to slow or stall? Would it's action of relaxing smooth muscle have this effect on the uterus or is an inhaled drug (even in strong doses) too little entering the bloodstream for an effect? TIA. J For home birth information go to:Joyous Birth Australian home birth network and forums.http://www.joyousbirth.info/Or email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/461 - Release Date: 02/10/2006
Re: [ozmidwifery] cord blood gases
Naomi In England we have seen in increase in 'fear' of litigation. Obstetrics in this country has always taken a huge chunk of the litigation for most hospitals . We now have in our country CNST (clinical neglegence scheme for trusts). Trusts are what groups of health care organisations are called. CNST is an insurance that Trusts pay into so that litigation claims can be paid when won. The CNST set out standards for trusts and depending on how well you achieve the standards determines the insurance premiums, which you can imagine are huge figures. The trouble is that CNST requirements for the standards to be met are not always sensible or in the best interests of women. Some standards like (cord blood sampling for ph post birth) are simply taken to record results in the notes which may protect against litigation in the future. I have a million issues with this practice! We had a university supervised professional debate about this issue in the Trust where I worked when it first became an issue. The midwives against and the Obs. for. We won the debate but the CNST requirements meant that we could save the Trust loads of money if we did them so they were introduced. Some of us still refused to do them. I would only do them if it was explained in full to the mother and father and they agreed. I gave it to them warts and all (like the obs openly admit that it is just to defend them in cases of litigation.). I did not make the decision the parents did. Needless to say when you tell them how inaccurate the results are and that neither they nor the baby will benfit from the results. Many choose not to have it done. I will search out my references and post them seperately. Our debate was published in a midwifery mag here! Shelly Midwife - Original Message - From: Naomi Wilkin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, October 13, 2006 9:07 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] cord blood gases Hi all, Just wondering how common it is for cord blood gases to be done in maternity units. I work in a small metro. hospital with a very busy maternity unit and our medical 'powers that be' are pushing for them to be done at every birth. Something we, the midwives, are very, very reluctant to do. I was also wondering if anyone knows of any research that may help us to prevent this from becoming a routine thing. Thanks Naomi. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/461 - Release Date: 02/10/2006 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] blood gasses and other policies
HI, Interesting conversation about blood gasses.I frequently get reports from mothers and health professionals that they gave birth in a Baby friendly hospital, or a hospital with clear policies on breastfeeding, but that babies are given infant formula often without their parents consent, or not with their parents INFORMED consent. This always intrigues me greatly. There seem to be no repercussions for staff who go against breastfeeding policies. Reasons I have heard for staff giving babies formula when I've asked midwives why they gave a baby formula include "the other midwife told me the baby was hungry", we didn't want to disturb the mother etc. Mothers tell me they were told that staff didn't want to wake/disturb the mother - they knew she was tired. Told she had no milk. Told the baby was hungry and needed something.And, my personal favourite, "it's OK, at this hospital we give babies the formula that is closest to human milk" Rarely are they told WHY the midwife thinks these things.These are babieswho are well, don't even start me on babies in the nursery where parent's rights seem to go right out the window.Some parents I have spoken to are very upset and angry. I wonder why breastfeeding policy is in a *different* category in most hospitals? Do others find this? Barb
Re: [ozmidwifery] blood gasses and other policies
I hear this stuff too, Barb and it concerns me greatly. I did some research on BFHI though and you don't need much to get accreditation!The attitidues you describe showvery little understanding of how bf works or how babies bf in the early days of their lives but it horrifies the crap outta me that so many get forcefed and have their guts permanently altered. I also hear of way too little support for women to bf in SCN and "minimal handling" taken to mean the staff can do whatever they like and the parents are limited!This has huge implications for those kids' health for the rest of their lives and at some point someone in govt has to notice how much it costs in the long run to ff. : ( J - Original Message - From: Barbara Glare Chris Bright To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2006 9:42 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] blood gasses and other policies HI, Interesting conversation about blood gasses.I frequently get reports from mothers and health professionals that they gave birth in a Baby friendly hospital, or a hospital with clear policies on breastfeeding, but that babies are given infant formula often without their parents consent, or not with their parents INFORMED consent. This always intrigues me greatly. There seem to be no repercussions for staff who go against breastfeeding policies. Reasons I have heard for staff giving babies formula when I've asked midwives why they gave a baby formula include "the other midwife told me the baby was hungry", we didn't want to disturb the mother etc. Mothers tell me they were told that staff didn't want to wake/disturb the mother - they knew she was tired. Told she had no milk. Told the baby was hungry and needed something.And, my personal favourite, "it's OK, at this hospital we give babies the formula that is closest to human milk" Rarely are they told WHY the midwife thinks these things.These are babieswho are well, don't even start me on babies in the nursery where parent's rights seem to go right out the window.Some parents I have spoken to are very upset and angry. I wonder why breastfeeding policy is in a *different* category in most hospitals? Do others find this? Barb
[ozmidwifery] re: goodbyes
Id like to add to the current conversation about cord blood gases Ive been lurking just lately, as many of you know, Ive had to make a difficult decision to stop practicing independently due to family commitmentsand so, when the bloke Im married to is actually here, I dont spend as much time as I used to reading and contributing to Ozmid. Just yesterday I had a few moments to catch up, and when I read the thread on blood gases, I was sure that Id missed some mails (perhaps I have, there seems to be a few problems with mails doubling up, or getting temporarily lost in cyberspace!). Halfway through the mails, it seemed to go from a lively and informative debate, (something thats been missing from this list for a while IMHO) to a slinging match, with people getting upset that others are honest and up front about their views. Can I just say that I know Lisa B, and if there is a midwife who has walked in the shoes of every midwife torn between hospital policy, threat of losing her job, and whats best for the women, its Lisa. Shes worked in a position of authority for over 2 years at one of Adelaides esteemed private hospitals, and Im sure the conversations weve had about what she had to fight for there are only a small portion of what actually goes on. Shes well aware as we all are, of what a battle it can be in the system, and along with me, and all the IPMs I know, has utter respect and admiration for those attempting to change things one birth at a time. I also see Lisa as a straight talker, and sometimes even I find it confronting to hear what she has to say, and I know her better than most on this list! But that doesnt mean that I pack my bags and go away, I may not agree, or I might think hey, thats a bit blunt, but I also think that shes made me think about things that Id otherwise just go along merrily with, and not look at in a truly critical light. I actually think that along with everyone on this list, she has oodles of knowledge and skill, and heaps to contribute. I know I will never be a strong enough midwife to do what most of you do, go in every day and beat my head against that wall and hope to Goddess that a woman gets away with a good birth. But please, dont stop contributing because its hard. Being a midwife is a hard road, no matter where you decide to direct your skill and passion. Were a downtrodden minority group, with ideals about women that are not shared by most of the people in power. Refusing to keep the dialogue going is never going to be productive, all it will do is stagnate us where we are, and I think we all want midwifery and provision of evidence based maternity services to improve and become stronger in this country. Thats all from me for now, Tania x -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.4/476 - Release Date: 14/10/2006
Re: [ozmidwifery] RE: Risk
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] RE: Risk Dear All Further to our discussion on risk The Australian bureau of Statistics has a Mortality Atlas It is not available free but below is a snapshot Compare this with the Australian Mortality data for childbirth (1997-99) Yes that is the latest data. As usual they sit on this report (quite telling as to the importance of birthing women) The 19971999 maternal mortality ratio (MMR) was 8.2 deaths per 100 000 confinements, compared with 9.1 per 100 000 in 19941996. JC Mortality Atlas from the ABS Age Standardised Death Rates (average 1997-2000) Cause Males (deaths per 100,000 persons) Females (deaths per 100,000 persons) Malignant Neoplasms 237.8 146.7 Ischaemic Heart Disease 190.0 119.9 Cerebrovascular diseases 65.8 65.8 Chronic lower respiratory diseases 46.6 23.2 Diabetes mellitus 18.8 13.6 Influenza and pneumonia 13.4 11.4 Accidents 35.6 17.7 Motor vehicle traffic accidents 13.1 5.5 Intentional self harm (suicide) 21.9 5.5 Organic, including symptomatic, mental disorders (includes dementia) 9.3 10.8
