Re: [ozmidwifery] Re:Sad Story, any help please?
He did a great job. I didn't remember that was his name but he was a
very welcome addition to the conference.
Gloria
Emily wrote:
haha as in Dr Bisits, the Australian obstetrician who
spoke about reeducating people about breech births
:)
Gloria Lemay [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What are "bisits", I don't think we have those in Canada. :-) Gloria
Emily wrote:
oh im so jealous ! how did bisits go?
regards
emily
Gloria Lemay [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
I wish all of you could have been here in Vancouver for the Breech
Birth Conference. Maggie Banks (N.Z.) and Jane Evans (Brit.) did the
midwives proud. Gloria
Mary Murphy wrote:
Jo, I was exploring the
thought that if the breech was stuck for so long it could have put
uneven pressure on the lower segment for a long time and perhaps cause
dehishance or pressure areas which could lead to necrosis and the
following events. Not a criticism, merely a lateral thought. As a
supporter of breech vaginal birth, I am interested in all the possible
ramifications. It was a long delay. Perhaps for this individual woman a long
delay with a cephalic presentation would be the same, however, the head
is round and smooth and would cause even pressures? Who knows, as I
said, just exploring possibilities. MM
Do you really think that a massive PPH 2.5
weeks (WEEKS, not hours or days) after a ceaser that resulted in a
nasty uterine infection is most likely to do with the breech
presentation? If the babe was cephalic she still might have stuck at
full dilation and had a c/s - would she have been less likely to have
gotten an infection or have the PPH?
At 6:21 PM +0800 2/4/06, Mary Murphy wrote:
I guess this is why some advise c/s for
breech, but it seems that this, She laboured to fully without any
analgesia then
pushed valiantly for 3.5 hrs is the
problem. I was led to believe that if progress of the breech halted,
then it was the time to change options. Mm
--
Jo Bournee
Virtual Artists Pty Ltd
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Re: [ozmidwifery] Just when you think the message isn't getting through...
Congratulations, Kelly, keep up the good work. Love Gloria Kelly @ BellyBelly wrote: This is a perfect example of why I keep pushing promotion to the mainstream and why its S important. Sometimes you feel like you are getting nowhere, sometimes you feel like you are going backwards, but then, you see you are actually going a million miles ahead our work can be completely invisible to us at times. Heres a first post from a new member: Hi everyone! Just thought I would pop my head up and say hello! Ive been reading the BB forums for a couple of months now so I thought it was about time I posted something. My husband and I have just started on our TTC journey! Its a very exciting time in our lives (we got married in Fiji in December 2005) and we are both ecstatic at the thought of becoming parents. Ive found BB to be an absolute wealth of information. Theres such a sense of community here, no-one will judge you and youll find all the support you could hope for from both mums and wanna-be-mums! I feel privileged to share my TTC ups and downs with such a lovely bunch of ladies. I love reading the birth stories. What an inspiration you all are!!! At times youve had me grinning like a fool, giggling hysterically or almost bawling my eyes out! I initially thought that I wouldnt be able to handle the pain of a natural birth and would have to opt for a voluntary C/Sbut after reading your stories, I have done a complete about-face and am now embracing the miracle of bringing our child/ren into the world by natural birth! See, its not that hard lets keep it up wonderful women!!! Best Regards, Kelly Zantey Creator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to Parenthood BellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support
Re: [ozmidwifery] article FYI
Thanks, Leanne. Good reminder of why we don't go to hosp to have our babies. Gloria leanne wynne wrote: Increasing Angle of Episiotomy Reduces Third-Degree Tear Risk Reuters Health Information 2006. © 2006 Reuters Ltd. Republication or redistribution of Reuters content, including by framing or similar means, is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Reuters. Reuters shall not be liable for any errors or delays in the content, or for any actions taken in reliance thereon. Reuters and the Reuters sphere logo are registered trademarks and trademarks of the Reuters group of companies around the world. NEW YORK (Reuters Health) Mar 16 - The larger the angle of episiotomy, the lower the risk of anal sphincter injury, a new study shows. Injury to the anal sphincter due to a third-degree perineal tear during vaginal delivery is the leading cause of fecal incontinence in healthy women, Dr. Colm O'Herlihy of University College Dublin and colleagues note. While the risk of third-degree tear is lower with mediolateral episiotomy compared with midline episiotomy, they add, it remains unclear what effect the angle of incision has on injury risk. To investigate, the researchers looked at 100 primiparous women, all of whom had right mediolateral episiotomy. Fifty-four of the women sustained third-degree tears, while the rest did not and served as the control group. All were evaluated three months after delivery. The mean episiotomy angle in the cases was 30 degrees, compared with 38 degrees for controls. Nearly 10% of women with an angle of episiotomy below 25 degrees had third-degree tears, compared with 0.05% of women with an episiotomy angle above 45 degrees. With every 6.3-degree increase in angle size, the relative risk of third-degree tear was reduced by 50%. Women with third-degree tears were not significantly more likely to report problems with fecal incontinence, the researchers note. Nonetheless, a range of continence scores was seen in both groups, indicating that continence compromise can occur postnatally, regardless of mode of delivery or presence or absence of anal sphincter injury, they add. Therefore, it remains important to question and advise women on this problem in the postnatal period. They conclude: If right mediolateral episiotomy is indicated, the angle of this should be as large as possible in order to reduce the incidence, and thus the potential sequelae, of obstetric anal sphincter injury. BJOG 2006;113:190-194. Leanne Wynne Midwife in charge of Women's Business Mildura Aboriginal Health Service Mob 0418 371862 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re:Sad Story, any help please?
I wish all of you could have been here in Vancouver for the Breech Birth Conference. Maggie Banks (N.Z.) and Jane Evans (Brit.) did the midwives proud. Gloria Mary Murphy wrote: Jo, I was exploring the thought that if the breech was stuck for so long it could have put uneven pressure on the lower segment for a long time and perhaps cause dehishance or pressure areas which could lead to necrosis and the following events. Not a criticism, merely a lateral thought. As a supporter of breech vaginal birth, I am interested in all the possible ramifications. It was a long delay. Perhaps for this individual woman a long delay with a cephalic presentation would be the same, however, the head is round and smooth and would cause even pressures? Who knows, as I said, just exploring possibilities. MM Do you really think that a massive PPH 2.5 weeks (WEEKS, not hours or days) after a ceaser that resulted in a nasty uterine infection is most likely to do with the breech presentation? If the babe was cephalic she still might have stuck at full dilation and had a c/s - would she have been less likely to have gotten an infection or have the PPH? At 6:21 PM +0800 2/4/06, Mary Murphy wrote: I guess this is why some advise c/s for breech, but it seems that this, She laboured to fully without any analgesia then pushed valiantly for 3.5 hrs is the problem. I was led to believe that if progress of the breech halted, then it was the time to change options. Mm -- Jo Bourne Virtual Artists Pty Ltd -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re:Sad Story, any help please?
What are "bisits", I don't think we have those in Canada. :-) Gloria Emily wrote: oh im so jealous ! how did bisits go? regards emily Gloria Lemay [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wish all of you could have been here in Vancouver for the Breech Birth Conference. Maggie Banks (N.Z.) and Jane Evans (Brit.) did the midwives proud. Gloria Mary Murphy wrote: Jo, I was exploring the thought that if the breech was stuck for so long it could have put uneven pressure on the lower segment for a long time and perhaps cause dehishance or pressure areas which could lead to necrosis and the following events. Not a criticism, merely a lateral thought. As a supporter of breech vaginal birth, I am interested in all the possible ramifications. It was a long delay. Perhaps for this individual woman a long delay with a cephalic presentation would be the same, however, the head is round and smooth and would cause even pressures? Who knows, as I said, just exploring possibilities. MM Do you really think that a massive PPH 2.5 weeks (WEEKS, not hours or days) after a ceaser that resulted in a nasty uterine infection is most likely to do with the breech presentation? If the babe was cephalic she still might have stuck at full dilation and had a c/s - would she have been less likely to have gotten an infection or have the PPH? At 6:21 PM +0800 2/4/06, Mary Murphy wrote: I guess this is why some advise c/s for breech, but it seems that this, She laboured to fully without any analgesia then pushed valiantly for 3.5 hrs is the problem. I was led to believe that if progress of the breech halted, then it was the time to change options. Mm -- Jo Bourne Virtual Artists Pty Ltd -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1/min.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Article: Premmie Babies 'Bed Blocking'
Wise words, Nicole. We all have to look at the reality of medical costs that are skyrocketing and never-ending technology that we can buy but can't afford. Gloria in Canada - Original Message - From: Nicole Carver To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2006 3:03 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Article: Premmie Babies 'Bed Blocking' How sad. A more valid point to discuss is the suffering that some of these babies go through, which should be weighed against chance of survival and later quality of life. There is a lot that is done to these babies to keep them alive, that must must be incredibly painful and distressing. Good palliative care for some, would be far kinder in their brief lives than intercostal tubes, arterial lines, ventilation, gastric tubes, tape all over their face which pulls off their skin when changed, noisy, scary environmentsetc. However, what a heart rending decision to make. I am greatful for my three healthy children, born vaginally at term. No miscarriages or even any scares.How precious life is. Perhaps there should be more done in the prevention of prematurity, such as reducing the stress of pregnant women in lower socio-economic groups by running support groups and providing one to one midwifery care, and more intervention to help women stop smoking. Nicole. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Kelly @ BellyBellySent: Saturday, April 01, 2006 10:19 PMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] Article: Premmie Babies 'Bed Blocking' This was apparently on Sky makes you sick to the stomach Fury Over Baby Comments Updated: 14:38, Monday March 27, 2006 Doctors have provoked controversy by suggesting premature babies should not always be treated because they are "bed blocking". They said that in some cases, premature babies born under 25 weeks should be allowed to die. The Royal College Of Obstetricians And Gynaecologists said space in neo-natal units was often in short supply. They said this was the result of "bed-blocking" by very sick premature babies. The Royal College said such beds could be better used to treat babies with a higher chance of survival than sick premature ones. Professor Sir Alan Craft, of the Royal College of Paediatrics, said: "Many paediatricians would be in favour of adopting the Dutch model of no active intervention for these very little babies. "The vast majority of children born at this gestation who do survive have significant disabilities. "There is a lifetime cost and that needs to be taken into the equation when society tries to decide whether it wants to intervene." However, premature babies charity Bliss described the idea as a "gross abuse of human rights". Chief executive Rob Williams said: "We might as well have a policy of not treating victims of car crashes which occur at over 50 miles an hour, or denying medical services to those over a certain age." __ Then this: Premature babies are blocking beds, says royal medical college By Amy Iggulden (Filed: 27/03/2006) Premature babies who need months of expensive care have been accused of "bed blocking" by one of Britain's royal medical colleges, it emerged yesterday. Sarah and James Cummings Sara Cummings and her son James, now a healthy five-year-old, who was born at just 24 weeks In a consultation document, the Royal College of Obstetrics and Gynaecology (RCOG) said that very premature babies were taking up intensive care space that could be used for healthier babies. The high demand from premature births means that some expectant mothers with potentially healthier babies are forced into other hospitals at a late stage, it said. Premature baby campaigners and mothers attacked the language used as "insensitive" and "a disgrace". In a report to the Nuffield Council on Bioethics, which is running a two-year inquiry into prolonging life in premature babies, the RCOG said: "Some weight should be given to economic considerations as there is a real issue in neo-natal units of "bed blocking"; whereby women have to be transferred in labour to other units, compromising both their and their babies' care." In the July 2005 report, it added: "One of the problems of the "success" of neo-natal intensive care is that the practitioners are always pushing the boundaries. "There has been a constant need to expand numbers of cots to cover the increasing tendency to try and rescue babies at lower and lower gestations." A spokesman for Bliss, the premature baby charity, criticised the RCOG for insensitive and
[ozmidwifery] Foreskins for Keeps
Herald Sun Not always so dinky-di Jill Singer 02mar06 DOES multiculturalism threaten dinky-di Australian values? If so, which particular values are we talking about? Much of the current debate assumes that values are fixed, immutable things. Times might change, so the argument goes, but values never do. This is tosh. Many of the values we now hold dear are not so old. Consider male circumcision, which was commonplace not so long ago. Most younger Australians now believe circumcision to be an unnecessary cruelty inflicted upon males and choose not to have their babies circumcised. Rarely is it medically justified and it diminishes men's sexual pleasure. Our Government's website about Australian values makes the point that Australians do not approve of genital mutilation. Gender is not specified and nor should it be. Yet, Jews and Muslims in Australia routinely continue to have their male children circumcised for purely religious reasons. If we are to see genuine political leadership in the debate about multiculturalism and values, why is our Government silent about the ritualised religious genital mutilation of males in our society? Just because our parents might have thought something was a good idea at the time, doesn't mean it still is. Times change and so do values. Australia's history is littered with examples of our values evolving. I was born into an Australia that did not allow Aborigines to vote. It seems unbelievable, but that is the way we were. Women, whether they were black, white or brindle, also got a raw deal. Air hostesses were forced to retire the moment they got married. Only young and single, whippet-thin women were allowed to serve us on planes. Women were not allowed to be pilots. We used to have homes for unmarried mothers. Young women would be whisked off if they got in the family way. Their newly born babies were torn from their arms in these homes and given to married couples to raise. A barbaric cruelty, but such were the values of Australian society. Nor was there any concept that a woman might have the right to say no to having sex with her husband. RAPE in marriage? Not possible. A woman's duty was to lie back and think of England, starching tablecloths, waxing the lino or whatever. Our culture also turned a blind eye to the sexual abuse of children. It was hushed up and kept hidden away. Now, we openly condemn child abuse and have laws that require professionals to report it. Dobbing is de rigeur these days, whether we are talking about sexual abuse, welfare cheating or corporate fraud. Yet, when I was a child, I was instructed that Australians didn't like dobbers. We also literally lined up for the strap if we figuratively stepped out of line at school. Not any more. Attitudes to drink driving have radically changed. Australians used to think nothing of getting behind the wheel shickered to their eyeballs. Now, of course, it's a crime. We are less modest. Our values used to preclude open discussion of menstruation and contraception. Shopkeepers kept sanitary protection wrapped in brown paper behind the counter and men would hush their voices when buying prophylactics. Now, we have television advertisements for tampons, panty liners, incontinence pads, condoms, haemorrhoid creams and impotence drugs. Swearing was something that men might do among themselves. Women who swore were considered vulgar and children would get their mouths scrubbed out with soap if they as much as said, well, bloody. Yet, today our Government is using this very word to advertise our country to the rest of the world. Times change. Personal finances were never discussed. We would not have dreamed of asking a friend how much they paid for their home, car or coat, let alone what they earned. Yesterday's vulgar behaviour is today's norm. AS our values morph in response to advances in medicine, technology, transport and communications, we might well look back with a mixture of regret and relief at what we have lost and gained along the way. Perhaps the most important values, which Australians have always treasured, are our hospitality and our ability to adapt to change. While some now choose to chant the anti-multiculturalism mantra of shape up or ship out, it is worth remembering how very far we have come, by placing a high value on a warm heart and an open mind. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] resources on induction of labour for women
Mary Murphy wrote: Also Google it and you will get all the websites aimed at the women. MM Try The Cochrane Collaboration website or the WHO website for some evidence based stuff. Melanie. Hi all, I'm a midwifery student and was wanting to obtain some referencessuch as books, videos, help groups, websites etc.. that can provide womenwith up to date, evidenced based info on induction of labour. Pros/cons, alternatives etc.. stuff like that. I would be truly grateful if anyone could help :) Thanks, Samantha B.Mid student/Herbalist Induction of Labour by Virginia Hawes (UK Midwife) Thousands of women in this country with normal pregnancies and healthy babies are being put at risk every day in maternity units across the country. Yet like lams to the slaughter they pack up their bags and head for the hospital in the belief that the doctors, who instigate the barbaric treatment they are about to undergo, are saving their babies lives. Many of them then spend the next few days in excruciating pain over and above that what is experienced in normal labour in an effort to drag their unready and unwilling bodies into labour. Their bodies are filled with drugs that may compromise their long-term health. So they begin the spiralling cascade of interventions that all too often culminates with entry through the theatre doors. The women and their families thank the doctors and hospital guidelines for saving them from the problems they had, problems that are often itrogenic in origin. And so the myth, that their bodies are failing them in the one thing women are best at, procuring a future generation, is perpetuated. To add insult to injury my colleagues, midwives, who by definition of their title should be the protectors of women and babies, help daily to continue this unnecessary practise. Induction of labour for no medical reason has become a socially acceptable procedure. The N.I.C.E. (National Institute for Clinical Excellence 2001) Guidelines are the gold seal that have been adopted with open arms and are now governing practice in maternity units throughout the country. The Induction of Labour (IOL) is one such guideline and one that recently instigated a rather heated conversation between a hospital antenatal clinic midwife and myself. Her role as head of the clinic involved speaking to many women who were booked for induction and therefore she was in a very responsible position to give true and unbiased information about IOL to large numbers of woman. I had telephoned the clinic to arrange an ultrasound scan for a client who was 42 weeks pregnant with her second baby. The pregnancy was normal. The client was very well informed and despite knowing there was no evidence to support fetal surveillance had decided on a scan to check the well being of her baby. Social pressure had made her feel that she needed to "do something" and this course of action, she felt, at least appeased her family, friends and neighbours. What she did emphasise to me was that she did not want to be put under any pressure by anyone to be induced and this I clearly explained to the midwife I conversed with. I asked her to pass that information on to the midwife in charge; an appointment was made for 2 days hence. The following morning I received a letter from the midwife in charge. The letter informed me that a review of the hospital notes made the clients dates "wrong" and stated "in accordance with N.I.C.E Guidelines on post maturity, no woman should go over 42 weeks". After reading the letter my client, feeling that was this was just the pressure she did not want to subject herself to, lost all faith in the maternity unit. She understandably felt that she would not be given the respect to make her own decisions especially as, without meeting her, judgement had been passed on her by the professions from which she had requested help. Also she must be a stupid woman after all if she knew when she got pregnant! She cancelled the appointment. The guidelines of course do not say what the midwife had stated. The letter left me in no doubt that this head of antenatal clinic not only had not read the guidelines but also more worryingly had put her own interpretation on them. If this is but one example of how they are being used to manipulate and lie to women what hope do women and society have of knowing the truth and making an informed
[ozmidwifery] workshops
Welcome to another eNewsletter* Call for Abstracts - Research Conference, being held in conjunction with Emergency Skills for Midwives Workshop* CERPS for Breastfeeding Conferences* Teri Shilling workshops - some places available* New to the website* CAIRNS - Breastfeeding Update Ethics in Lactation Practice* Breastfeeding: A Lifelong Investment - Extension of early payment deadline.* Nils Bergman Tom Hale available to address groups of medical practitioners and pharmacists.* Call for AbstractsThe deadline is 31 March for this Conference at Noosa Heads - it will be held in conjunction with a one-day Emergency Skills for Midwives workshop.http://www.capersbookstore.com.au/events/BIconference.htm* CERPSBreastfeeding: A Lifelong Investment has been approved for 5 L CERPS and 1 E CERP.Breastfeeding Update and Ethics in Lactation Practice has been approved for 6.5 L and 6.5 E CERPS.* Teri Shilling WorkshopsWe've arranged for the one day workshop in Brisbane (Friday) to be moved to a bigger room to cope with the demand for places. Other workshops have a few places available.http://www.capersbookstore.com.au/events/terishilling.htm* New to the Website=See them all here: http://www.capersbookstore.com.au/scripts/news.aspincludingThe Labor Progress Handbook 2/ed is now available athttp://www.capersbookstore.com.au/scripts/shop_item.asp?by=cdeitem=mi1652Mixed Blessings: Deborah Lee - interviewed on A Current Affairhttp://www.capersbookstore.com.au/scripts/shop_item.asp?by=ttlitem=2165Defiant Birth:Women who resist Medical Eugenics - in the newshttp://www.capersbookstore.com.au/scripts/shop_item.asp?by=cdeitem=pb3401* CAIRNS - Breastfeeding Update Ethics in Lactation Practice===The discounted registration fee needs to be paid 30 days before the weekend seminar on 27/28 May,so it must be paid before 27 April. Register early for all these popular seminars.http://www.capersbookstore.com.au/events/breastfeeding2.htm* Breastfeeding: A Lifelong InvestmentThe deadline for receipt of the $165 fee ($155 for NZ venues) is 31 March.From 1 April, it's $195 (or $180 for NZ venues) for everyone (except Birth Issues subscribers whoget a 10% discount). However, places are limited.*Nils Bergman Tom Hale availableIf your hospital has lunchtime talks, or rounds with visiting experts, this will interest you.Nils Bergman and Tom Hale are available to speak to groups of medical practitioners and/or pharmacists(only).. contact me for further information.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Low lying placenta
Has she had any bleeding? What number baby is this? Any history of prior uterine surgery? I'd definately be seeking a second opinion from an unbiased obstetrician if it was a member of my family. Gloria Lemay, Vancouver, BC Kelly @ BellyBelly wrote: Can anyone offer any words of wisdom for this lovely lady in my forum? I would have thought if its 2cms away from the cervix it would be okay? So I thought I better ask to be sure before I reply: Hi girls As I've discussed with a couple of you, I've had the same issue and unlike most placentas (my ob says he hasn't seen one move far enough in almost a decade) mine didn't get a wriggle on at all and is barely over 2 cm away from the cervix. It's hardly moved since it was diagnosed at 12 wks. Given that the uterus has grown by oodles seems unfair that the placenta couldn't manage another cm, but there you have it... I asked him a few questions like does that mean it's more 'embedded' into the uterus, which means other complications, etc, but he told me he doesn't think so. Part of my problem might be my uterus hasn't been stretched as much 'cause neither I nor the baby are very big, it's posterior, rather than anterior and they are less likely to move and it's also 'long', whatever that means in medical speak. Really, there's no explanation and I'm just odd. So I'm booked in for a c/s next Friday 10 March. There's no way my ob thinks the 10 cm dilation of the cervix could happen without tearing away a longish portion of the placenta from the wall of the uterus and Lucy's head isn't down further than the placenta either so it would probably be coming out first = emergency c/s. If someone medical is around or someone who has some more info, how have you seen other cases like this handled? Best Regards, Kelly Zantey Creator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to Parenthood BellyBelly Birth Support - Click Here
Re: [ozmidwifery] induction methods
Yes, disgusting and it leads to the new penchant for putting things up women's bums. Our young women need to be told to "Say, no" when anyone wants to put fingers, foleys, gels, amni hooks, forceps and other meds and instruments of torture in their bodily cavities. Gloria in Vancouver, Canada Mary Murphy wrote: Foley balloon plus saline expedites vaginal delivery Source:Obstetrics Gynecology 2006; 107: 234-9 Comparing the time between labor induction and delivery with and without infusion of extra-amniotic saline. Why do they always want to put things into womans vagina and uterus? It gets to be obscene. MM
Re: [ozmidwifery] Resounding failure of active labour management
In the "olden days", there used to be a guideline for FTP that worked very well. . . . "Never let the sun set twice on a woman in active labour". So, from 4 cms there should not be two sunsets on that woman. That's a good way to know that you're not dealing with an exhausted woman whose uterus is bagged out. Of course, 99.9% of women will give birth in this time. One of the cautions that I believe we should be telling more women is not to wake up their husbands and to stay dark, quiet and resting if the birth begins in the night. I think that coming into a birth after working a "graveyard shift" means that the woman's endocrine system is out of sync. It is very foolish to make a big dramatic deal out of early birth sensations. Gloria - Original Message - From: Janet Fraser To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 3:09 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Resounding failure of "active labour management" I hear you, Helen! I know a woman who dilated fully in 4 hours (yes, 4!) then had a rest and be thankful stage of an hour during which it was decided she had "FTP" and she had a repeat surgery. I spoke to another woman recentlywhose surgeon had just told her that owing to her fairly short labour with her first child, she only had 10 hours in which to birth the second or face surgery. Talk about arbitrary! Marsden Wagner is right when he describes how much the timeline for labour has shrunk over the last 20 years. I have a section on FTP, or as I prefer to call it, Failure to Wait on my forums which provokes lively conversation from many of the members who have scars on their bodies from this particular myth. I have a great link to a hospy protocol on dxing FTP which relies solely on machines to decide the appropriate strength of cx and then on the clock to check for dilatation - woman stationary in the bed, of course, so the machines can work. In the absence of "good enough" cx and time factors, the woman is taken to theatre with absolutely no mention of how she or the baby are going. Utter madness. We'll be like the US soon and our maternal death rates will start to rise with the upping of initial unnecessary surgery and then the refusal of VBAC. J - Original Message - From: Helen and Graham To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 9:49 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Resounding failure of "active labour management" I totally agree with all of your comments Janet. My original bone of contention in this case however, is the "time line" approach where if the cervical dilatation is slower than everyone thinks is "normal" then the woman is whisked off for a caesar. This seems to happen far too much still despite both mother and baby coping just fine. I know what revelation it was to me 17 years ago when my friend went to Boothville in Brisbane to have her first baby and was FULLY DILATED FOR 12 HOURS. I had not long done mid in Darwin and couldn't imagine anyone being "allowed" to go that long with a good outcome. Her daughter is very healthy! 17 years later, I still can't imagine that happening in any mainstream setting. Tragic Helen Cahill - Original Message - From: Janet Fraser To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 1:26 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Resounding failure of "active labour management" Rachel, I only hear this from health professionals. I don't hear it from women, not even the most mainstream hospy birthing mamas with whom I deal. It's a very small percentage of women who embrace this technology, and an even smaller number who knowingly embrace it. If you read mainstream birth stories they usually start with "My baby was 10 days overdue so my hospital/surgeon said I had to be induced." The women are generally scared, although normal physiological birth scares them too, but have no idea of the massive risks involved. When it all goes pearshaped, as it so often does, the hospital/surgeon and those around them tell the woman she is defective and can't birth "properly". It sometimesleads to ERC solely for fear as women are so shocked by the assault of active management that they seek to control the process in future by choosing surgery without the horror of labour under these circumstances. Of course, the profiting surgeon is only too happy to oblige. Apart from women transferred from BCs to labour wards, the most traumatised women I see are those who have had active management foisted on them by hospital policies and the belief that you can't say
Re: [ozmidwifery] Problems with emails
Thanks for digging my emails out of the spam filters most times, Andrea. Love Gloria Andrea Robertson wrote: Hi Everyone, I think one problem with emails not appearing on the list is that they can get caught up in spam or junk filters by mistake. This can happen especially when the list is copied in with other addresses. For example, I usually find Gloria Lemay's ozmid postings in my spam filter because our list was one of several to whom she sent her message. You can change your level of spam filtering with your ISP and also your individual email program. It should also be possible to set your program to allow messages through from certain sources, or with certain key words in the address line (e.g. ozmidwifery list) . This might help some of you. The list can't handle attachments of any kind (this is to avoid spreading viruses which are often buried in attachments) and if your email program automatically adds attachments ( I notice that some do this) then that may be a problem. Some employers have barred access to lists through their servers too. Apart from these possibilities, we have to remember that email isn't infallible - we've come to reply on it so much that we can forget that it is still reliant on a phone line, consistent power supply without surges etc and an ISP - all potential sources of occasional failures. We do pretty well on the whole - if your message doesn't get through, please try again. We do our best to monitor what's going on, and know that there have been periods when our web host has had problems which has affected the list too. Regards, Andrea Andrea Robertson Director Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth Education e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.birthinternational.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Delayed posts
It seems to be a problem on many lists right now. Gloria in Canada Andrea Robertson wrote: Hi Everyone, I'll try and find out what is going on. Not sure where the problem lies - there are a number of possibilities and I have asked Kim, our List Administrator, to check it out for us. I've sent posts that never appeared and have also noticed that people are replying to posts that I never received. Will get back to you all. Regards, Andrea At 10:52 PM 8/02/2006, you wrote: I sent a test email yesterday and it still hasn't appeared. I have had very few emails from the list since Monday. MM -Original Message- Subject: [ozmidwifery] Delayed posts Could someone who moderates this list explain why some posts are so delayed in getting released and some never appear? Cheers Jo -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.2/252 - Release Date: 2/6/2006 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. Andrea Robertson Director Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth Education e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.birthinternational.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] prison birthing
I spent two months in prison here in B.C., Canada where midwifery is very suppressed. What an education. I spent my first week in maximum security C Unit and I'm sure the C stood for crazy. What a group of women. One of the women on our unit was pregnant and it was quite bizarre because she was the husband of one of the other inmates. That was a first for me! Apparently, she was only gay when incarcerated (which was a lot) but when she was on the outside she was straight and that's where the pregnancy came from. Hm. Anyway, I spent most of my time in prison doing what I do on the outside, talking to women about their births and their dreams for their kids. One day, this woman told me that she was 26 weeks preg and she had not felt the baby kick. I was, of course, very alarmed to hear this and asked her when the last time was that she had seen a doctor. It had been a couple of months and no one was in a hurry to book another appt. I told her that she should insist on having an u/s and find out what was going on. She went to health care and the baby was fine. The reason there was no movement was that she was on methadone and apparently the baby in utero is completely stoned on that---another first for me. I could write a book on all the things I learned in there that I didn't know before. Maybe one day I will--it was quite an adventure. The really harsh thing for prisoners is the terrible nutrition. Pregnant women got the same bland, starchy, cheap diet that everyone else got plus an orange and a piece of cheese every day. Often they would trade the orange and cheese for some junky food off someone else's tray. Poor little babies. Gloria Mh wrote: We used to have the women from Mulawa gaol in Sydney come to us. I never work in the clinics so I am not sure about their antenatal care but they always came to us when in labour- or of antenatal problems. Depending on their offence ( which, naturally, was not divulged to us), they had one or two prison officers with them who remained outside the room. I never saw or heard of anyone chained to a bed. There were very occasionally women who were handcuffed because they had a history of absconding or because their offences and gaol history were so dire they were considered to be a physical threat to staff. In that case they were required to have a female prison officer within the room in order to assure the midwives' safety. I must emphasise that that was very rare- maybe two or three cases in the ten years I have been in this delivery suite. They had the same length of stay in hospital as anyone else (approx 3 days postpartum) then mother went back to prison and baby was cared for according to the arrangements sorted out before the birth, sometimes family members, sometimes foster care. Is this what you were after? Some time last year pregnant women were moved to another facility (? near Windsor) so we don't see them anymore. Monica - Original Message - From: adamnamy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 1:21 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] prison birthing Do any of you midwives out there know how birth happens for pregnant women in Australian prisons? Are they transferred to hospital or are they required to stay in the prison health service. I have been reading an Amnesty report of the abuses of pregnant and laboring women in the US (it is available through Sheila Kitzinger’s website for anyone who is interested). I am keen to know what similarities exist for Australian women. I thought fetal monitoring and a drip was bad enough-try giving birth being chained to a bed-not knowing how long you can cuddle your baby for before she is removed! That breaks my heart. Amy _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Emily Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 8:10 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] yoga video hi everyone funny photo attached that shows what happens if your baby doesnt get enough food ! i found this while looking for photos for an infant nutrition seminar im doing for uni next week. does anyone still have that short movie of the yoga mum where the baby crawls up and has a feed while shes upside down?? id love to include that :) if anyone has it they can send it direct to me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] thanks emily _ Brings words and photos together (easily) with HYPERLINK http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/PMDEF3/*http:/photomail.mail.yahoo. comPhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.2/252 - Release Date: 2/6/2006 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] Cystotomy in Hysterectomy after c/s
Published in the American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology, January 2006 *Helpful terms to read this research paper:* *Cystotomy* : surgical cut of the urinary bladder; called also vesicotomy. *TVH:* total vaginal hysterectomy *TAH:* total abdominal hysterectomy *LAVH:* laparoscopically-assisted vaginal hysterectomy In summary, when all hysterectomies were considered together, 17 of the 51 ( 33.3%) cases of incidental cystotomy had a history of previous cesarean section, while only 25 of the 153 (16.3%) controls had a history of previous cesarean delivery. This difference was significant. Is previous cesarean section a risk for incidental cystotomy at the time of hysterectomy?: A case-controlled study Christopher M. Rooney, MD, a,* Adam T. Crawford, MD, a Brett J. Vassallo, MD,a,b Steven D. Kleeman, MD, a Mickey M. Karram, MD a Department of Urogynecology and Pelvic Reconstruction, Good Samaritan Hospital, a Cincinnati, OH; Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, Advocate Lutheran General Hospital, b Park Ridge, IL Received for publication January 13, 2005; revised June 23, 2005; accepted July 27, 2005 KEY WORDS Hysterectomy Cystotomy Cesarean section Objective: The purpose of this study was to determine if previous cesarean section is an independent risk factor for incidental cystotomy at the time of hysterectomy. Study design: This is a case-controlled study that evaluated all cases of incidental cystotomy at the time of hysterectomy between January 1998 and December 2001. Five thousand and ninety-two hysterectomies were performed in the time period mentioned above, and 51 cases of incidental cystotomy were identified. Each case of incidental cystotomy was then matched to 3 controls with similar patient characteristics, medical histories, and surgical histories, as well as the absence of incidental cystotomy at the time of hysterectomy. Results: Overall, 5092 hysterectomies were performed during the study period (total abdominal hysterectomy [TAH] 3140 [ 61.7%], total vaginal hysterectomy [TVH] 1519 [ 29.8%], laparoscopically- assisted vaginal hysterectomy [LAVH] 433 [ 8.5%]). Fifty-one cases of incidental cystotomy were identified (TAH: 24 [ 47.1%], TVH: 19 [37.3%], LAVH: 8 [15.7%]). The overall incidence of cystotomy was 1.0%. When considering TAH, there were 24/3141 ( 0.76%) cases of incidental cystotomy, with 8 (33%) of these patients with a history of previous cesarean section. During TVH, we encountered 19/1519 (1.3%) cases of incidental cystotomy, with 4 (21%) of these women having undergone a previous cesarean. Finally, during LAVH, there were 8/433 ( 1.8%) cases of incidental cystotomy. Five ( 62.5%) of these patients had a previous history of cesarean section. In comparison, 19/72 (26.4% ) TAH controls had a previous history of cesarean. Four out of 57 (7.0%) TVH controls had a history of cesarean section. Finally, 2/24 ( 8.3%) LAVH controls had a history of previous cesarean. Conclusion: Previous cesarean section is indeed a significant risk factor for damage to the lower urinary tract at the time of hysterectomy (odds ratio [OR] 2.04; 95%CI 1.2-3.5). When analyzed separately, the OR of incidental cystotomy at the time of TAH, TVH, and LAVH in a woman with a history of previous cesarean was 1.26, 3.00, and 7.50, respectively. Only the value for LAVH was statistically significant ( P Z .005; 95%CI 1.8-31.4). _ 2005 Mosby, Inc. All rights reserved. Presented at the 31st Annual Meeting of the Society of Gynecologic Surgeons, April 4–6, 2005, Rancho Mirage, CA. * Reprint requests: Christopher M. Rooney, MD, Good Samaritan Hospital, 375 Dixmyth Ave, Seton Center; 8th Floor, Cincinnati, OH 45220. E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0002-9378/$ - see front matter _ 2005 Mosby, Inc. All rights reserved. doi:10.1016/j.ajog.2005.07.090 American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology (2005) 193, 2041–4 www.ajog.org In the United States, hysterectomy is the most commonly performed gynecologic procedure, with over 600,000 performed annually. 1 The rate of bladder injury during hysterectomy has been reported to range from 0.37 to 2%. 2-4 More recent reports have placed the incidence consistently between 1% to 2%. 5 The reason for the increase in reported incidence is unknown, but some have speculated that it is secondary to the ever increasing rate of cesarean section. 5 Cesarean section is the most commonly performed surgery on women, with rates at an all-time high of 20% to 30% of all deliveries. With up to 20% of these women likely requiring a hysterectomy by the age of 55, adherence of the bladder to the lower uterine segment will make dissection at the time of hysterectomy more difficult. 6,7 While statistical analysis has been applied to several series of hysterectomies in an attempt to define risk factors associated with incidental cystotomy; a value for the risk attributable to previous cesarean section alone has not been
Re: [ozmidwifery] fear
I think it's so important for midwives to study hypnosis and get an understanding of how the human brain works. In fact, I think we all need to be in intensive therapy all the time so that we don't put our own insanity on to the births of others (and, yes, I'm including myself in that comment). Yes, saying your fears out loud does diminish them. Having fears racing around in your head with no place to say or write them out makes the mind a very unsafe playground. When I was going through a very stressful court case, I read an article that said you should get up every a.m. and write across the top of a page "Today my biggest fears are__ " and then just empty your mind onto the page. It was amazing to me what came pouring out when I did this and it would mean that I didn't need to keep obsessing all day long. It really helped a lot. With regard to the women who say they won't or don't want to push. Agree with them! "Yes, I know how you feel. I don't want you to push. If you feel an overwhelming urge to push, just pant and get above it. Do not push. It's really okay. Your baby can come out without you doing anything." Get the thinking brain out of the way. Pushing a baby out is a no brainer. It happens in the old brain at the base of the skull, not in the neocortex where the will is located. It's the same as if you woke up in the a.m. and said "I really don't want to have a b.m. today". So what, if your body wants to go, it will. You can trust that with birthing women, too. I'll paste in below an article on these matters that I wrote for Midwifery Today Magazine. Gloria Courage by Gloria Lemay According to the Merriam-Webster dictionary, courage is a noun meaning ability to overcome fear or despair. Notice that fear has to be present in order for courage to exist. The English word courage is derived from the French word for the heart, coeur. Finding the heart to continue doing the right thing in the face of great fear inspires others to become nobler human beings. In midwifery, we see women and men facing their fears in birth; we ask them to have faith in the face of no evidence. We demand that they be bigger than the circumstances and, when they conquer, we get a renewed vision of how life can look when our fears dont stop us. This is the source and inspiration for our own courage. The paths of parenting and midwifery push me up against my fears and despairing attitude on a daily basis. Luckily, I have found teachers and teachings that have inspired me to keep going despite my rapidly beating hummingbird heart. When my daughters were very young and I was juggling my hearts desire to be a good parent and make a difference in childbirth, one of my friends told me to use the affirmation, My vulnerability is my strength. I thought she was insane and argued that if I lived by that slogan my children would surely perish. I was sure that my strength was my strengthand by strength, I meant my ability to force and push life to suit my will. I now know that true strength is the elusive quality of being able to strengthen others. At that time, I trusted my friend and, on faith in her alone, began toying with sharing my vulnerability. I tiptoed into revealing my fears and apprehensions to a few safe people and slowly began to realize that what my friend had given me as an affirmation worked a lot better than my stoic, stubborn, brave warrior act. After a few harsh lessons, I began to realize that it wasnt up to me to conceal worrisome information from the parents at a birth. In fact, if I am afraid at a birth, the best thing I can do is name the fear boldly and ask everyone else present to say what fears they have. One of my dear clients released her membranes at 36 weeks in her second pregnancy. Her first birth had been a beautiful, straightforward homebirth and I was deeply invested in her second birth being just as great. After four days of leaking amniotic fluid, she began having regular, intense birthing sensations, and we decided to go to the hospital for the birth. I drove and the parents were in the back seat of my car. As we approached the hospital, I had white knuckles as my hands clutched the wheel, and a ball of fear formed in my gut. I started picturing the cord being whacked off immediately and the baby being taken away from mom. I looked in the rear view mirror and saw the father with his eyes looking terrified. I said, Whats your biggest fear right now, Brian? He replied, I am afraid were going to have a cesarean. I never imagined this would be his fear. A cesarean section was not even a possibility. I explained, Your wife is having strong birth sensations. . . . she has already had one vaginal birth and the baby is smallfor sure, it will be born vaginally. He asked me, Then, what are you afraid of? I told him honestly. Im afraid that the babys cord will be cut too quickly and the baby will be taken away from Karen. This had not occurred to him
[ozmidwifery] Web resources for keeping boys intact
A few neutral medical website: http://www.caringforkids.cps.ca/babies/Circumcision.htm (Canadian Paediatric Society) A summary of worldwide Medical association position papers http://www.nocirc.org/position/ http://aappolicy.aappublications.or...trics;103/3/686 Breastfeeding/Maternal Bond http://www.cirp.org/library/birth/ (links to medical articles and positional papers) http://www.birthpsychology.com/birthscene/circ.html Other resources: www.cirp.org www.nocirc.org http://www.jewishcircumcision.org/ http://www.mothersagainstcirc.org/ http://www.norm-uk.org/circumcision_lost.html http://doctorsopposingcircumcision.org/ Mothering.com also has many articles against circumcision, most recently in the September/October 2005 issue
Re: [ozmidwifery] Vaginal breech in hospital
Congratulations, Sue, and thanks for sharing a real win. Love Gloria in Vancouver BC Canada - Original Message - From: Sue Cookson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 2:31 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Vaginal breech in hospital Hi all, Had the honour of assisting a 38 year old primip to successfully birth her breech baby vaginally yesterday in a large hospital. She has been told she had to have a c/section but negotiated her way to trying a vaginal delivery. We drew up birth plan specifying freedom of position, midwife delivery, intermittent auscultation, no episiotomy, physiological third stage etc. Went into labour on her due date with the baby sitting with its bottom and right foot at the cervix. Arrived at the hospital amidst a flurry of panic but after presenting them with the birth plan and the 'team' arriving - myself as support person and a friend as filmmaker - the staff settled down to document the plan including refusal of elective c/section, choice to have no epidural, no CTG, etc. A FANTASTIC Indian female registrar arrived and showed genuine excitement at the prospect of a breech birth. The couple then agreed to a PV and ultrasound just to confirm baby's position. She was 8cm with intact membranes, and bottom and foot palpable - baby was 'a nice size' according to the registrar 'G'. There were a few midwives always around but it was G who forged a relationship with us all and was incredibly respectful of the woman's choices. The midwives showed concern when G could palpate the foot but G was fine. We discussed the choice to birth upright and it was agreed that we would assist the mother into a more 'conventional' position if it was required. So labour continued with a few more hours in transition during which time baby rotated to the anterior. We changed positions often and it was whilst in the bath that the membranes ruptured with fresh meconium appearing. Another VE was performed briefly and foot and bottom were close to crowning. We were on the floor with the mother supported upright, using mirrors to watch progress and the first foot began to appear at 5.30pm. I had a closer look and found a second foot. The baby appeared slowly, double footlings breech and G gently assisted the baby's head to birth at 5.45pm. The placenta followed the baby out, so although we'd had good cord pulse a few minutes before the baby was certainly on his own at birth. Baby was minimally resuscitated - away from the mother which was my only slight criticism, but very understandable - and G actually helped the mother to move across the floor to the resus trolley. WOW!! Baby had apgars of 6, then 9 and is just fine. 6lb 11oz. Peri intact, lotus birth... G stated that she had delivered many breech babies in India and New Guinea and I believe she was an obstetrician overseas but not in Australia. She was excited at delivering an upright breech as she had only ever delivered them in obstetric positions before. She was also very OK about the lotus birth which was a different response for that hospital. It was a wonderfully affirming birth - a testament to my belief of being informed, prepared and corageous too!! I am very aware that this birth hinged on G being in attendance - I truly doubt that many other practitioners would have shared her enjoyment of the challenge of this birth. Her experience in other countries was so vital ... it is possible that she put her hand up for this birth when it was discussed a week or so before (the parents had a two hour meeting with another doctor and obstetrician - the ob stated he would not support their decision, so it truly was an amazing outcome!!). Hail to those women who stand strong in their belief of normal birth and also to those of us who can support them. I really felt honoured to be there. I hope by telling this story that more women and midwives may feel encouraged to attempt to negotiate their way through the obstetric maze which surrounds vaginal breech births. Sue -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] article FYI
H . . . isn't that convenient for the ob/gyns? Only two cases I have seen were two breech boys born in hosp---one cesarean and one with Piper forceps applied to after coming head. Gloria leanne wynne wrote: Hi All, Here is more evidence that cerebral palsy is not caused by a difficult birth but by a viral infection earlier in the pregnancy. Fetal Exposure to Neurotropic Viruses Linked to Cerebral Palsy Reuters Health Information 2006. © 2006 Reuters Ltd. Republication or redistribution of Reuters content, including by framing or similar means, is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Reuters. Reuters shall not be liable for any errors or delays in the content, or for any actions taken in reliance thereon. Reuters and the Reuters sphere logo are registered trademarks and trademarks of the Reuters group of companies around the world. NEW YORK (Reuters Health) Jan 05 - The presence of nucleic acids from neurotropic viruses in the blood of newborns is associated with cerebral palsy and preterm birth, Australian investigators report. Intrauterine exposure to viruses is postulated to be an important factor in the development of cerebral palsy, mediated either by direct infection or fetal inflammatory response, Dr. Catherine S. Gibson, at the University of Adelaide, and her associates in the South Australian Cerebral Palsy Research Group note. Subjects of their study, reported this week in BMJ Online First, included all children with cerebral palsy born between 1986 and 1999 in South Australia to white mothers and 883 randomly selected control infants. Blood samples taken at birth from the infants were tested for herpes simplex virus (HSV)-1, HSV-2, varicella zoster virus, Epstein-Barr virus, cytomegalovirus, human herpes viruses (HHV)-6, HHV-7, and HHV-8, and members of the Enterovirus family. In the control group, CMV was the most prevalent virus (26.7%). Some of those infected with CMV were also positive for herpes group B (3.1%) and herpes group A viruses (1.1%). Dr. Gibson's group observed that CMV was significantly more prevalent in the 247 control infants born before 37 weeks' gestation than in the term infants (odds ratio 1.57, p 0.01). The same trend was observed for the presence of any herpes virus (odds ratio 1.43). They also found a significant association between any viral exposure and cerebral palsy at all gestational ages compared with control subjects (odds ratio 1.30). The relationship was most marked for detection of herpes group B (odds ratio 1.68). Based on these findings, the authors suggest that exposure late in gestation may not result in preterm birth, instead having direct effects on the brain, whereas exposure early in gestation may result in preterm birth but increase the risk of neuropathology associated with prematurity. The high prevalence of exposure to viral infection in the control infants suggests that cofactors may be required before brain damage occurs, they add, such as genetic susceptibility to infection or disruption of the placental or blood-brain barrier. BMJ Online First 2006. Leanne Wynne Midwife in charge of Women's Business Mildura Aboriginal Health Service Mob 0418 371862 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] British co speaks up for N. American boys
Viafin-Atlas Ltd. announced today its consternation and dismay at the thousands of emails it has received in recent weeks from US citizens regarding the detrimental after-effects of circumcision. [This item has not been edited. The corporate entity wishes widest distribution.] Please see: http://www.ereleases.com/pr/20060118005.html Or: http://tinyurl.com/9433o Or read it here: Press Release Viafin-Atlas - Circumcision Issues SALISBURY, England, Jan. 18, 2006 -- Viafin-Atlas Ltd. announced today its consternation and dismay at the thousands of emails it has received in recent weeks from US citizens regarding the detrimental after-effects of circumcision. In a response to this, Viafin-Atlas, which manufactures therapeutic products for circumcised males, has written to the American Academy of Pediatrics and the US Secretary of Health and Human Services to relay the despair and anger felt by victims of unnecessary neo-natal circumcision performed in the US. In this letter, appropriate suggestions are outlined which enforce the special and necessary human rights which are owed to babies and children of the US. These special rights extend and prevail in all other civilized and developed countries in the world, where the absence of routine neo-natal circumcision is not an issue. For further details of these letters please visit the News page at http://www.viafin-atlas.com. Contact: James Williams Managing Director Viafin-Atlas Ltd. Unit No.1 The Malverns Business Centre Cherry Orchard Lane Salisbury SP2 7JG United Kingdom Tel: 0044 (0) 1722 322611 Fax: 0044 (0) 1722 330009 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] Email addy for Optimal Fetal Pos woman
I think it was Andrea Quanchi who mentioned she had an address for Pauline Scott. Apparently the one in the back of the book no longer works. Can you send it to me offlist? Thanks Gloria -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] What are Buist's pads?
This is mentioned in Optimal Fetal Positioning. Can anyone tell a Canadian what they are? Gloria in Vancouver, BC Canada
[ozmidwifery] Breech Birth Conference in Vancouver March 2006
Breech birth conference coming up in Vancouver, B. C. Canada Hope you can make it. Details on the link below. Gloria Lemay, Vancouver, BC Canada http://bbc.resist.ca/ please pass info on to your groups
Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth stools and PPH
Sorry I can't help you with studies. I don't see any problem with a woman giving birth on a birth stool but I do hate to see the woman in that upright position holding a slippery baby and uncovered after the birth. If using a birth stool, there should be a plan for having the mother go onto her knees with babe and then roll onto a soft surface to lie down in warmth and softness as soon as the baby is out. This is basic to woman to woman care and I'm not sure that it occurs to male drs. If you want to "see what's going on" with birth stool births, all it takes is a plastic mirror (they sell them in school supply places for student lockers) and a flashlight. You throw the mirror on the floor beneath the woman, shine the flashlight on it and voila! an unbreakable object provides a clear view of crowning. Gloria in Vancouver BC Canada - Original Message - From: Tracy Donegan To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 10:50 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Birth stools and PPH Greetings and New Year wishes from chilly Ireland. Has anyone heard of other studies on birth stools increasing the risk of PPH other than the Nikodem study 1995. I have an OB in Ireland who refuses to allow mothers use a birth stool .(other reasons include because he cant see whats going on which I would assume is the real reason he dislikes them ;-\ Thanks Tracy http://www.DoulaIreland.com
[ozmidwifery] Lest we forget
CBC.CA News - Full Story : Hospital investigating death of new mom Last Updated: Dec 8 2005 07:41 AM EST The Ottawa Hospital has launched an investigation into the death of a mother who gave birth to her sixth child by caesarean section just five days earlier.Micheline Mwenyi, 35, died about 14 hours after she was released from the hospital. Her husband Faustin Tshishimbi said his wife never felt right after the C-section to deliver the baby, a girl named Love Gracia. Mwenyi was given a prescription for Labetalol, a drug to treat high blood pressure following the birth. Tshishimbi suspects an infection developed from the operation. He is waiting for autopsy results. Mwenyi was kept in hospital for five days before returning to the family's townhouse in Blossom Park. But by midnight she appeared agitated and kept repeating she felt she would die, her husband said. Tshishimbi called 911. Paramedics arrived and worked on Mwenyi for an hour before taking her to hospital. When Tshishimbi arrived shortly after in his own car, he was told his wife had died. "When they told me, 'Your wife passed away,' I say, 'No, it's a mistake. No, not me'," Tshishimbi recalled. A family friend, Charles Kahumbu, said Mwenyi had been well enough to speak with family members in Africa, just hours before her death. "She was here talking, they were calling Africa. She is talking with his father," said Kahumbu. Tshishimbi came to Canada from Congo six years ago. His wife and five children, aged nine to 17, arrived last February. The hospital has not released any details about Mwenyi's death. "This is a coroner's case, and disclosure and issues around that will be through the coroner's office, but we work closely with them when we go forward with these types of very tragic cases," said Dr. Chris Carruthers, the hospital's chief of medical staff. The coroners office is expected to issue a preliminary report to the family by the end of next week. Tshishimbi's co-workers are planning a fundraising campaign to help with expenses. Tshishimbi has a short-term contract as a self-employment program co-ordinator. Copyright © 2005 Canadian Broadcasting Corporation - All Rights Reserved
[ozmidwifery] Tribute to Joah Donley from Mothering Magazine, Living Treasures feature
Living treasure: Joan DonleyMothering, July-August, 2003 ORIGINALLY FROM CANADA, WHERE SHE WAS a maternity nurse, Joan Donley is the matriarch of the modern midwifery and homebirth movement in New Zealand. With global political aspirations, she has become a strong voice for independent midwifery internationally. Donley began her midwifery training in New Zealand in 1971 at the age of 55. A life member of the New Zealand College of Midwives, Donley was instrumental in achieving an amendment to the Nurses Act of 1977, which restored autonomous practice to New Zealand midwives. New Zealand doctors were very resistant to this amendment, concerned about the erosion of a 50-year-old fee-for-service system. Negotiations established a new pay structure for doctors and midwives. Numbers of New Zealand independent midwives grew from less than in 1990 to more than 1,500 in 1995. Together they lobbied the government in 1989 to birth the certificate of midwifery, which grew into a diploma and in 1993 matured into a bachelor of health science degree in midwifery. In New Zealand today, more than 70 percent of births are attended by midwives, the highest rate in the world; nearly 10 percent of births occur at home. At 81, Donley was the first to be awarded an honorary master of health science degree. As well as being a prolific author, Donley has been a speaker at many midwifery conferences throughout the world and has been a consultant to Canada's department of health in the implementation of its direct-entry registration of midwives. In 1990 Donley received an Order of the British Empire medal for services to midwifery and childbirth. She has also been awarded a Women's Suffrage Medal.Her most significant achievements, however, are the 750 babies she has caught, including 4 of her 12 grandchildren. COPYRIGHT 2003 Mothering MagazineCOPYRIGHT 2003 Gale Group
Re: [ozmidwifery] Tribute to Joah Donley from Mothering Magazine, Living Treasures feature
You're welcome, Sally-Anne. I love the fact that Mothering Magazine has instituted the "Living Treasures" feature in their magazine. Too often, we admire and respect people from afar and don't say anything to them while they are living. Then, after they die, everyone speaks up in glowing terms---it's a funny culture thing to do. I know that it meant a lot to Jeannine to be so welcomed in Australia when she was there speaking. Thanks to all of you for giving her that sweet time. Love Gloria - Original Message - From: Sally-Anne Brown To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 2:48 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Tribute to Joah Donley from Mothering Magazine, Living Treasures feature Dear Gloria and Kirsten Thank you for your posts about Joan and Jeanine over the past few days. Two amazing womenwho will be sadly missed and fondly remembered what a powerful transition time this week has been. Kind Regards Sally-Anne - Original Message - From: Gloria Lemay To: Undisclosed-Recipient:;@uniserve.com;;; Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 8:09 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Tribute to Joah Donley from Mothering Magazine, Living Treasures feature Living treasure: Joan DonleyMothering, July-August, 2003 ORIGINALLY FROM CANADA, WHERE SHE WAS a maternity nurse, Joan Donley is the matriarch of the modern midwifery and homebirth movement in New Zealand. With global political aspirations, she has become a strong voice for independent midwifery internationally. Donley began her midwifery training in New Zealand in 1971 at the age of 55. A life member of the New Zealand College of Midwives, Donley was instrumental in achieving an amendment to the Nurses Act of 1977, which restored autonomous practice to New Zealand midwives. New Zealand doctors were very resistant to this amendment, concerned about the erosion of a 50-year-old fee-for-service system. Negotiations established a new pay structure for doctors and midwives. Numbers of New Zealand independent midwives grew from less than in 1990 to more than 1,500 in 1995. Together they lobbied the government in 1989 to birth the certificate of midwifery, which grew into a diploma and in 1993 matured into a bachelor of health science degree in midwifery. In New Zealand today, more than 70 percent of births are attended by midwives, the highest rate in the world; nearly 10 percent of births occur at home. At 81, Donley was the first to be awarded an honorary master of health science degree. As well as being a prolific author, Donley has been a speaker at many midwifery conferences throughout the world and has been a consultant to Canada's department of health in the implementation of its direct-entry registration of midwives. In 1990 Donley received an Order of the British Empire medal for services to midwifery and childbirth. She has also been awarded a Women's Suffrage Medal.Her most significant achievements, however, are the 750 babies she has caught, including 4 of her 12 grandchildren. COPYRIGHT 2003 Mothering MagazineCOPYRIGHT 2003 Gale Group No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.10/189 - Release Date: 30/11/2005 No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.12/193 - Release Date: 6/12/2005
Re: [ozmidwifery] fetal path to obesity
How much weight gain is irrelevant. All the work on this has been done and is reported in "What Every Pregnant Woman should Know About Diet and Drugs in Pregnancy". The question is always "What are you eating?" The quality of the diet is everything. Women can gain more than 16 kg and have healthy slim children, IF they are eating food. By food, I mean "as close to what Mother Nature put in the ground as possible". Americans can study pregnant women till they're blue in the face and it won't make a difference. Processed food, high carb pasta, and baked goods are all some women eat. Washed down with fruit juice and soft drinks---it's a recipe for putting on weight, high bp, and swollen extremities. Then, when the child is born, they feed it formula, canned baby food full of preservatives, and more fruit juice. So many women will say "my child doesn't eat vegetables". Vegetables are essential to good health. You don't get to not like them. I'm so alarmed when I see what young people have in their shopping carts here in N. America. My daughter is going to college and she has managed to change the dietary habits of many of her class mates because they're intrigued when she opens her lunch and starts eating salads, a boiled egg, beans/cheese/corn tortilla, and fresh fruit. She tells them "You just have to change your palate and then you'll like this stuff, too." Gloria - Original Message - From: Helen and Graham To: ozmidwifery Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 2:19 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] fetal path to obesity http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,17432980%255E23289,00.html Print this page Fetal path to adult obesityClara Pirani02dec05PREGNANT women who gain too much weight under the guise of "eating for two" may be guaranteeing their children have a lifelong battle with obesity.Two studies that will be published in next week's New Scientist journal found women who gain too much weight during pregnancy are far more likely to have overweight or obese children. One study, from a team at Harvard University in the US, found that even women who followed their doctor's advice and gained a "safe" amount of weight were still likely to have overweight children. The Harvard study divided 770 expectant mothers into three groups - those who gained an "inadequate", "adequate" and "excessive" amount of weight - based on the US Institute of Medicine's guidelines that women should gain between 12kg and 16kg. Children born to women who gained an adequate or excessive amount of weight were, on average, already overweight by the age of three. "Only the inadequate group - a weight gain of less than 11.5kg - gives a result that is where you want to be," Harvard University researcher Matthew Gillman said. Researchers believe that during gestation the baby's metabolism - including the hunger and satiety signals that tell people when to stop eating - is still developing and babies become accustomed to having too much food. Julie Owens, a researcher at the University of Adelaide's centre for reproductive health, said that while there was no exact guide to how much weight a women should gain, it was important women did not use pregnancy as an excuse to overeat. privacy terms © The Australian
Re: [ozmidwifery] Tom Cruise buys a sonogram
Well, at least he's forced the medics to admit that u/sis harmful to the fetus. Gloria - Original Message - From: Helen and Graham To: ozmidwifery Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 1:14 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Tom Cruise buys a sonogram He really has lost the plot! Helen http://www.femalefirst.co.uk/celebrity/74212004.htm TOM CRUISE has been slammed for buying a sonogram machine for his pregnant fiancee KATIE HOLMES, with health experts warning that he's putting his unborn child at risk. Officials at the American College of Radiology (ACR) are highly concerned by Cruise's revelation that he purchased the device to track his child's progress, and they're warning him that he could be breaking the law if he's carrying out the scans himself. DR CAROL M RUMACK, of the ACR Ultrasound Commission, says, "This is a patient safety issue. Untrained people, even if they have the financial means, should not buy, or be allowed to buy and operate, ultrasound machines which are, in fact, medical devices and should not be used without a medical indication. "Images of the foetus are an opportunity to diagnose problems before birth that may require treatment. These images should be obtained by certified technologists under the supervision of physicians properly trained in ultrasound... "The ACR is concerned that Tom Cruise has been badly advised regarding the use and potential abuse of ultrasound. There are many abnormalities that may be missed by the untrained eye. Also, if it is not medically necessary, the use of ultrasound raises unnecessary physical risk to the foetus."
Re: [ozmidwifery] question
I think the only indicator that you "might" get a shoulder dyst is a longer than expected 2nd stage. i.e. with a primip, longer than 2 1/2 hrs, and with a multip, longer than 45 mins. You might want to change strategies and help hydrate the woman that you're seeing with a long 2nd stage. Changing strategies would be getting her out of the water tub, having her get on a birth stool, more upright positions, etc. Of course, medically managed births that foretell a sh. dyst would be the forceps and vaccuum extractions that don't give the uterus time to clamp down for that last big push for the shoulders. Gloria - Original Message - From: brendamanning To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 1:55 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] question Jennifer Cameron wrote The signs of shoulder dystocia are evident before the head is crowned. What are these signs prior to crowning ? Crowning is before any kind of turtling, burrowing or lack of restitution may occur right? Because 'crowning' is before the head is born. I am nowwondering if I've been missing something? I have practised "hand off" birthing for 15 years see many babies corkscrew their way out, I'm often thankful I haven't had my hands on them as I would have interfered with the manoeuvres they initiate to negotiate their way out. I was taught that not waiting for restitution was a major cause of shoulder dystocia, has there been research to prove otherwise since ? I would be really interested to read it. With kind regardsBrenda Manning www.themidwife.com.au - Original Message - From: Mary Murphy To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 10:14 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] question Jennifer Cameron wrote The signs of shoulder dystocia are evident before the head is crowned and then the 'turtle' sign appears and clinches the diagnosis so it is full steam ahead and get that baby born My understanding is that the head retraction on the perineum is the main sign. I realize that a large baby could be one, as is slow 2nd stage in the perineal phase, but these accompany many normal births too. . Could you please list the signs that are evident before the head is crowned and also the reference? Thanks, MM. PS, a grandmultip client of mine recently birthed a 5.3kg, HC 40cm, Length 60 cm, with no problems. Had to stand up to do it tho. Remember the placenta is beginning to separate at the point of the head being born so the baby is dying of hypoxia and acidosis. ALSO are probably correct on not waiting for restitution.. You could wait all day for restitution and end up with a dead baby.
[ozmidwifery] Pediatric genetic disorders site
Subject: An excellent pediatric website of genetic disordershttp://medgen.genetics.utah.edu/thumbnails.htmThumbnailsThis page contains thumbnails of all of the photographs on this site. Click on the name to go to the page that includes captions with the photographs
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: Midwifery Educators
Brenda, can I copy your post to other lists. Gloria in Canada - Original Message - From: brendamanning To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 6:24 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: Midwifery Educators A big impetus to change the cord cutting routine at our unit was to revamp the birth bundles. We broke the bundles down intoseparate items originally as a saving of work for CSSD in sterilising unused stuff. So now having everything separately peel packed it is very easy to just not include a pair if scissors when you grab the birth stuff for the actual event. We (in our own practice) don't have Drs for births the newer MW soon got used to having to go get scissors for any cutting they wanted to do. The bundles just have a large kidney dish or bowl 2 artery clampsin them. We have removed the scissors from them entirely, episis haven't been done for years anyway as no one cuts tight cords anymore or feels for them around necks the resus is done on the bed, initially anyway, then baby is only moved to resus cot if really necessary. It all seems to work well, we often don't cut cords till placentas are out, Dads or partners do it 99% of the time catch 80% of the time so we are just the gate keepers often anyway. Really you need to read the current research it backs up all that you are suggesting, perhaps print it off present it at the next meeting, nothing like the written word for initiating change. Failing that, hide the scissors! With kind regardsBrenda Manning www.themidwife.com.au - Original Message - From: Maxine Wilson To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 10:02 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: Midwifery Educators Ha ha - I remember doing the same in my mid training tho we didn't have to do shaves. "I could give you an enema if you would like one!"I would offer. Never had any takers The power of consent Maxine - Original Message - From: Ken WArd To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 9:09 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: Midwifery Educators When I started my mid we were doing shaves and enemas. It was my group of students that facillated change. Maybe because we were a generally older lot. the women were informed they wold be shaved and given an enema. If any objection or query of the procedure was made they were quickly told that they could refuse. All did, and by the time our 12 months were up there were no shaves or enemas taking place. Midwives can effect change. As to cutting the cord quickly if baby needs resus. I have resused 2 flat babies with cord intact, on the bed with mum. Bub is getting 02 from mum, and mum is not nearly so stressed. Both babies responded well. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Nicole CarverSent: Tuesday, 25 October 2005 10:36 AMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: Midwifery Educators Hi Barbara, Do your parents have any say in the cord clamping? Perhaps they need more information such as at their education sessions? We also do active management, but Dad's are still able to cut the cord. Not many of our Mum's do physiological third stage. However, we had a lotus birth recently which went well. I believe that although midwives do not have a lot of power in hospitals, parents requests are often listened to. There is an opportunity to harness this to bring about a cultural change, and if parents continue to request certain practices they will break down the resistance to change. I have not given pethidine through an epidural before. We have infusions though. They are Fentanyl/Marcain and we do obs 5 minutely for 30 minutes, then full set of obs with pain score, sedation score, dermatomes and motor function, then pulse, BP, resps and sedation scorehourly, with dermatomes and motor function 4 hourly. I think it is good to keep your obs consistent to save confusion, particularly with new or inexperienced staff. Cheers, Nicole. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Barbara StokesSent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 10:15 AMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] Re: Midwifery Educators Dear Midwives, I have just
Re: [ozmidwifery] Jeanine Parvati
Thanks for posting this Sally. Our hearts are so heavy with the impending loss of this Goddess of birth. I know she loved her speaking trip to Australia and has very fond memories of being there. Gloria Lemay, Canada - Original Message - From: Sally Westbury To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 9:32 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Jeanine Parvati Sally Westbury Homebirth Midwife "Learn from mothers and babies; every one of them has a unique story to tell. Look for wisdom in the humblest places - that's usually where you'll find it." Lois Wilson From Jeanine Parvati's latest newsletter on her birthkeeper's website.Our dear crone-sister is ailing. She is unable to receive a liver transplantand is now in a hospice preparing to pass.She is asking for her friends/sisters/kindred spirits to tune in together atnoon on the 23rd of October for 13 minutes and to send her your prayertincture, she refers to this as settling her spiritual affairs and suggeststhat it is time to say what has been left unsaid.Her website is www.birthkeepers.com click on fall 2005 newsletter.If her name sounds familiar you may have read one of her booksJeanine'sbooks include Conscious Conception ,Prenatal Yoga (the first book on thissubject 1970's) and Hygeia , a woman's herbal. She is a woman who has made ahuge contribution to birth in this time and place, in a very unique andvisionary way.PAuline YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "NZhomebirth" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[ozmidwifery] Scottish dads push wives toward C-sections? I don't think so
This is a group that no one has thought to blame the high cesarean rate on. Hmm. Gloria Scotland on Sunday - October 2, 2005Squeamish men pushing wives towards Caesareans RICHARD GRAY HEALTH CORRESPONDENT FRETTING fathers-to-be are fuelling Scotland's soaring Caesarean sectionrate because they do not like to see their pregnant partners in pain,midwives have warned. They claim many worried husbands are afraid of the mess and noise thataccompanies natural childbirth. Instead they are encouraging their wives to give birth at largeconsultant-led hospital units where they can get powerful painkillers andsurgery. But midwives claim these over-protective men are unwittingly causing theirpartners to have unnecessary Caesarean sections and drugs by taking them tothese "baby factories". They say more women would have natural births if they used smallermidwife-run maternity units. The proportion of women choosing to have Caesareans has leapt from 6.2% to9% in the last 10 years with more than 4,600 women choosing to have themajor surgical procedure in 2004. Experts claim the increase in popularity is mainly due to the misconceptionthat Caesareans are a safer and pain-free option to traditional childbirth. But the abdominal surgery can leave mothers in pain for weeks afterwards andthey are prone to getting infections in their wound. The controversy surrounding Caesareans has led to tensions between midwivesand doctors over the best way of providing services to pregnant women. Earlier this year the Royal College of Midwives launched a campaign topromote "normality" in childbirth. Phyllis Winters, a midwifery team leader at Montrose Community MaternityUnit, believes the celebrity trend of opting for Caesareans has helpedcreate the myth that surgery is the easier option. But she believes squeamish husbands have also played a part in the declineof natural childbirth. She will present her claims at a conference organised by the NationalChildbirth Trust (NCT) and the Royal College of Midwives in Dunfermline,Fife, on Thursday. Winters said: "A lot of couples take decisions about childbirth together andmen in particular feel wary about childbirth. "They are frightened about seeing their partner in pain and about what cango wrong. As a result they often prefer to go to the consultant led unitwhere they perceive there is a higher level of care. "Unfortunately there is also a higher level of intervention when it is notneeded. In Montrose less than 8% of the births we deal with at themidwife-led unit get transported to the specialist unit due to complications"Women need more positive role models to have natural births and perhapsthen we will see a change in the way society views what is a natural lifeevent. "Men also have to understand that by going to a midwife-led service they arenot taking a risk." Currently just 63% of all babies born in Scotland are delivered naturally,but midwives claim the vast majority of births using Caesarean sections andinduction should be allowed to happen naturally. Patricia Purton, director of the Royal College of Midwives Scotland, agreedthat fathers-to-be played a significant role in helping women choose theirmethod of birth. She added: "I would go further, as a lot of women's mothers have only everexperienced consultant led services and so that has become the norm as faras they are concerned. "The problem is that often in large hospitals, childbirth is made to fitaround the service rather than letting nature take its course and fittingthe service around the labour." A survey of 800 new fathers carried out four years ago by parental supportgroup Fathers Direct and the NCT revealed many of the anxieties faced by newfathers when their partners give birth. It found nearly a third of men felt powerless during the childbirth processwhile most said it was difficult to see their partners in pain and beingunable to help. A third also said that they felt ill-informed about thechoices couples faced during pregnancy. It said that many men wanted a more active role in the delivery process Shona Gore, an antenatal tutor with the NCT, said: "Men are often pushedinto the role of the protector during a pregnancy and it is only naturalthat they want the best for their partners. "At the start of my courses almost all of the men want to go down theconsultant led route as it appears to be the safer option, but one of theaims of our classes is to give couples time to reflect on the decisions theyface. "There is a culture in this country that hospital is the safest place to be,but this attitude is now slowly changing, particularly with fears about MRSA" But Jack O'Sullivan, from Fathers' Direct, said it was unfair to blame highCaesarean rates on men. He said: "Fathers play a vital role in the decision-making process ofchildbirth and they are naturally concerned about their partners' wellbeing."But often they are relying too much on their
[ozmidwifery] VBAC Breech Twins
Okay women, here's your miracle for the day! This is from a doula friend in Calgary, Alberta, Canada. She has given permission to share it far and wide so feel free to repost. GloriaHello Everyone,I would like to report that my VBAC, Breech, with twins client gave birth totally naturally and without intervention at the Rockyview hospital last week. It was an awesome thing to witness. A woman saying No Thank You to fear mongering and letting her body guide the way. Baby A was breech so the 2nd stage was slow and the doctors can be quite intense with their comments. Here are some for the records .Delivering these babies naturally is just the same as throwing them off a cliff andYouve had a C-section before, and your uterus is now slowing down with contractions, these are signs that your uterus is about to explode, and that will kill you and your babiesThe babies are healthy and happy and the mom is so excited to have conquered her fears. Having had a C-section previously, she said that concentrating on the short term pain for long term gain got her through it. She couldnt bare the thought of another incision and now 3 babies to take care of. When the babies were delivered the room had 15 people in it. There was actually applause when the first baby emerged bum first. I think that after the staff realized that the Mom was going all the way with the requests they got excited (doc included). The hospital took advantage of the happening and invited various interns and students to the birth so that they could get an education on breech, twin deliveries. I guess not that many women ever get a chance to follow through with it, so no one gets the education. I was totally alarmed to that the hospital was so helpful. One of the nurses mentioned that the hospital had an incident 6 months ago where they tried to withdraw care because the woman wouldnt listen to them and things went bad so some policies have supposedly changed and they care for people no matter what their birth requests. I was impressed with the people on staff that day, but the pessimist in me knows the battle isnt over but things are changing! Thank you to Gloria and Patty who I called heading into the birth when some of the fear was rubbing off on me the Doula!Charis Curtis, W.T.Prema Sai Wholistic Living2713 14th St SWCalgary, AB T2T 3V2[EMAIL PROTECTED]www.premasai.ca
Re: [ozmidwifery] Indigestion at breakfast....
Dear Honey, don't worry about the content of the publicitythere is no bad publicity. Engaging in slinging around stats won't further anything. It's a sign of the emerging power of the midwives that the drs are doing what they're doing. If you weren't a formidable threat, they'd just sit in their offices and not say anything. The public is not stupid. They watch more what you do and how you be than what you say. . The real power in moving mw forward is that so many women are so damaged. That can only be tolerated so long. You'll have many positive, supportive letters printed in the press. At the end of the day, society will move a little further in the cynicism about all things pharmaceutical co dominated. The reason: it simply doesnt work. Gloria - Original Message - From: Honey Acharya [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 3:11 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Indigestion at breakfast I'm getting sick of going round and round in circles with this debate. How do you reply to these people that think too many births end in emergencies for it to be safe and just don't understand why we don't need/want ob's and hospitals within 2 mins reach? That think if it means saving even one life we should not have the choice? Does anyone have some links to the best studies showing the evidence of safety of birth away from hospitals? ie free standing birth centres and homebirth I know I can wade thorugh the internet and find ones like the cochrane review, but I know that many of you may have them easily to hand, so if you can spare a minute to forward them I would be grateful. I am not receiving the majority of ozmid emails at the moment (not sure why) so could you cc my email address in the reply so that I actually get them. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Much appreciated thankyou Honey Acharya Friends of the Birth Centre Townsville - Original Message - From: Andrea Robertson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 7:05 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Indigestion at breakfast Hi everyone, This was not a good read over breakfast this morning. Miranda Devine is known for her right wing views, but this was almost too much to bear. Where do these dinosaurs live, and where do they get their stats from? Andrea PS She's thoughtfully included her email address. Mum and baby are caught in the middle September 22, 2005 Midwives and obstetricians differ over the risks of birth centres away from hospitals, says Miranda Devine. IT WAS rather ironic when the two pregnant women starring in a story on ABC-TV this week about a new style of doctor-free natural birthing centres were rushed to hospital for the ultimate in medical interventions. At the beginning of The 7.30 Report story on Monday, one woman was sitting in a chair in the midwife-led birthing unit in Ryde, grimacing in pain from contractions. By the end of the story she had a cute little baby, but only after a 20-minute ambulance ride to Royal North Shore Hospital and an emergency caesarean. The other woman, was also transferred to hospital for an induction when her baby refused to come. Advocates of the stand-alone, midwife-led model of birth units, segregated from hospitals, claimed this proved the model worked well. The midwife has been able to recognise when there were problems or when the labour looked as if it was going to deviate from the normal, Sally Tracy, associate professor of midwifery practice development at the University of Technology, Sydney, said. But obstetricians are understandably unhappy about being expected to pick up the pieces at the last minute of a childbirth gone wrong, with the inevitable legal ramifications. It's ear trumpets at 40 paces as midwife groups and obstetricians bicker over the risks involved in setting up birth centres a distance apart from major hospitals. But the NSW Government is pressing ahead with plans to open more midwife-led birthing units, with two already open: in Ryde and in Belmont, near Newcastle. Home-birth trials are also in place. The Australian Medical Association complained this month that the Health Minister, John Hatzistergos, hadn't even consulted them about this radical change. As a result, the minister is meeting the association's NSW president, John Gullotta, today to discuss the new model, among other matters. Such are the sensitivities that Gullotta would not comment until after the meeting. But the association's obstetrics spokesman, Dr Andrew Pesce, a consultant obstetrician at Westmead Hospital, was happy to speak, minutes after delivering a healthy baby boy yesterday afternoon. He was keen to point out it was a vaginal delivery to a mother who had previously had a caesarean, thus demonstrating his non-interventionist credentials. He has come under heavy attack from midwife groups since he began speaking
[ozmidwifery] Induction of Labour article
Induction of Labour by Virginia Hawes (UK Midwife)Thousands of women in this country with normal pregnancies and healthy babies are being put at risk every day in maternity units across the country. Yet like lams to the slaughter they pack up their bags and head for the hospital in the belief that the doctors, who instigate the barbaric treatment they are about to undergo, are saving their babies lives. Many of them then spend the next few days in excruciating pain over and above that what is experienced in normal labour in an effort to drag their unready and unwilling bodies into labour. Their bodies are filled with drugs that may compromise their long-term health. So they begin the spiralling cascade of interventions that all too often culminates with entry through the theatre doors. The women and their families thank the doctors and hospital guidelines for saving them from the problems they had, problems that are often itrogenic in origin. And so the myth, that their bodies are failing them in the one thing women are best at, procuring a future generation, is perpetuated. To add insult to injury my colleagues, midwives, who by definition of their title should be the protectors of women and babies, help daily to continue this unnecessary practise. Induction of labour for no medical reason has become a socially acceptable procedure. The N.I.C.E. (National Institute for Clinical Excellence 2001) Guidelines are the gold seal that have been adopted with open arms and are now governing practice in maternity units throughout the country. The Induction of Labour (IOL) is one such guideline and one that recently instigated a rather heated conversation between a hospital antenatal clinic midwife and myself. Her role as head of the clinic involved speaking to many women who were booked for induction and therefore she was in a very responsible position to give true and unbiased information about IOL to large numbers of woman. I had telephoned the clinic to arrange an ultrasound scan for a client who was 42 weeks pregnant with her second baby. The pregnancy was normal. The client was very well informed and despite knowing there was no evidence to support fetal surveillance had decided on a scan to check the well being of her baby. Social pressure had made her feel that she needed to "do something" and this course of action, she felt, at least appeased her family, friends and neighbours. What she did emphasise to me was that she did not want to be put under any pressure by anyone to be induced and this I clearly explained to the midwife I conversed with. I asked her to pass that information on to the midwife in charge; an appointment was made for 2 days hence. The following morning I received a letter from the midwife in charge. The letter informed me that a review of the hospital notes made the clients dates "wrong" and stated "in accordance with N.I.C.E Guidelines on post maturity, no woman should go over 42 weeks". After reading the letter my client, feeling that was this was just the pressure she did not want to subject herself to, lost all faith in the maternity unit. She understandably felt that she would not be given the respect to make her own decisions especially as, without meeting her, judgement had been passed on her by the professions from which she had requested help. Also she must be a stupid woman after all if she knew when she got pregnant! She cancelled the appointment. The guidelines of course do not say what the midwife had stated. The letter left me in no doubt that this head of antenatal clinic not only had not read the guidelines but also more worryingly had put her own interpretation on them. If this is but one example of how they are being used to manipulate and lie to women what hope do women and society have of knowing the truth and making an informed choice? Following the publication, in Canada, (Hannah 1992) of the largest Randomised Controlled Trial (RCT) to date concerning induction of labour and further meta-analysis of other RCT The Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists (RCOG) adopted of the policy of offering induction at 41 weeks. This is now the recommendation of what is regarded as gold standard, The National Institute for Clinical Excellence (N.I.C.E) Guidelines. However what is not widely known by obstetricians and midwives alike is that all the studies used to govern todays practice was and is based on 8 babies! In the case of induction of labour, the number of babies that died following their mothers being induced versus the numbers of babies that died following their mothers left to proceed with pregnancy beyond 41 weeks. There were approximately 3000 women in the IOL group and 3000 in the expectant management group. One baby died in the IOL group and 7 died in the expectant management group. Hey presto it is obvious then many babies lives will be saved if we offer to induce every woman
[ozmidwifery] Re: ] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options.
Don't know if this has been posted before but one of my favourite midwives on Planet Earth is Mary Cronk of Britain. She teaches breech courses to mws all over the British Isles. Here's a link to an article by her on the things you need to know about this art http://www.aims.org.uk/Journal/Vol10No3/handOffbreech.htm Gloria in Canada - Original Message - From: Vedrana Valčić To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 4:48 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options. Ive had one question on my mind for quite some time - why is it said so often that delivering a breech is becoming a lost art? Is delivering a breech that complicated? Vedrana From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Janet FraserSent: Friday, September 09, 2005 10:06 AMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options. I completely agree, Brenda. And I think anger is reasonable response to women being refused the right to birth their baby vaginally. Maybe if more women got angry and said no, it would stop happening. But sObs just keep pushing the limits and no one stands up to them so now they're starting to section automatically for posterior babies. Then what? Next time that woman wants to give birth, if she goes to that surgeon, or even a different one, she'll be damaged goods and have to have more surgery or be induced because she can't "go over." I can't tell you how many women have asked me for help this week alone. It's truly shocking how many women (and babies!) are being denied the basic human right of vaginal birth. And it's truly shocking how little consumers really seem to comprehend of how the system works and actually believe their Obs when they tell them total crap. OK I'm done too. For the moment! : ) J - Original Message - From: brendamanning To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 5:39 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options. Or the women could just try saying 'NO' I don't consent to surgery, I will if needed, but not "just in case".. No consent, no surgery! Stay home with a capable MW for as long as possible then go to the hospital ?? I'm cross with the oBs (not that you can't tell !! Won't even give them a capital for their title !!!) BM - Original Message - From: Janet Fraser To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 9:49 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options. Hi Debbie, oddly enough I too know 2 women in exactly this position atm. The dangers of choosing a surgeon for the care of a perfectly normal pregnancy are becoming clear at this point. There's an OB at JHH that deigns to catch breech babies - Andrew Bisits (sp?) - so perhaps he's one to try. I can't imagine agreeing to major surgery, with it's attendant risks, but I also can't imagine trying to birth my baby with a bunch of cranky onlookers. Women are just plain screwed in this scenario and it drives me into a rage. I shall content myself with sharing the info on turning breech babies I seem to have been supplying on a daily basis this week. One midwifes collection of breech turning info.http://gentlebirth.org/Midwife/breechcl.htmlAttending a breech birth.http://gentlebirth.org/Midwife/breechbr.htmlTurning a breech.http://gentlebirth.org/Midwife/breechtn.htmlBook review on breech babies.http://www.midwiferytoday.com/reviews/breech.aspIna May Gaskin on catching surprise breech babies!http://www.midwiferytoday.com/articles/3surprisebreeches.asp Homeopathy to turn babies in utero.http://www.midwiferytoday.com/articles/turnbaby.asp A great site on moving breech babies.http://www.spinningbabies.comA Natural Breech Birth - hospitalhttp://www.lalecheleague.org/NB/NBMarApr01p47.htmlMore than you could ever hope for from the UK midwives (I love these women!)http://www.radmid.demon.co.uk/breech.htmAbout 500 birth stories with clear descriptions.http://www.breechbabies.com/hospital_breech.htm Here's our OFP thread on
Re: [ozmidwifery] ACMI referral guidelines
I wanted to put in some thoughts about these matters even though I don't understand the specificsof your system. We have probably gone through many of the same things here in Canada. One thing that we are changing in our approach to dealing with those who oppose us is "dramatic language". It's not accurate to say you are "being beaten about the head". I know it's a turn of phrase only but there is power in language. It actually takes rigour to say "We have received 3 letters stating." rather than saying things like "raked over the coals, having our heads in a noose, being burned at the stake, etc." All of those things don't accurately describe what we are dealing with today and to the degree that we indulge in the drama, we lose power. Secondly, backlash and resistance are normal when things are on the move. They are actually good signs of progress. The progress will be seen in surprising and unexpected places. When you have a whole group of women focused on improving maternity care, the improvements may not come in the place you are putting energy but they will come and you can be proud that your contribution made a difference. I find it interesting that the obstetricians are not accepting your evidence. That means they are reading it, at least. Have you ever "not accepted" something and then come to see that you can accept it later? I sure have I remember the first time I saw someone breastfeeding an 8 month old. I was a teenager and I was completely disgusted that someone would have a child that size on their breast. Years later, there I was with my 4 y.o. still sucking away. Just shows that it's possible to completely transform a point of view. So, keep up your stand for the normalcy of birth and the possibility of Australia being a world leader in bringing dignity and health back to the birthing room. You may never get credit for it but you'll have huge satisfaction that you were part of a movement in 2005 that made a difference for your daughter and grand daughters. Gloria in Canada - Original Message - From: Janet Fraser To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 5:26 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] ACMI referral guidelines I'm so sorry, Anne. I deeply sympathise with you and I wish I could do something to help. I think it's time thatthose of us with actual real evidence went on the offensive and stopped allowing Obs to dictate the terms of this discourse. They need to be asked to demonstrate their fitness to practice according to evidence based guidelines not that mulch that they fluff up for the media. Sending you strength and support from Melbourne. For the record, in ob terms, isn't a "low risk" woman one who isn't pregnant? ; ) Janet - Original Message - From: Anne Clarke To: OZMIDWIFERY Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 10:05 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] ACMI referral guidelines Dear All, We are still being beaten around the head about using the ACMI referral guidelines. Just today an obstetrician said 'well they (ACMI referral guidelines) are not RANZCOG approved' and he added that 'ACMI does not represent the vast majority of Midwives like RANZCOG represents all Obstetricians'. When the references were pointed out and the referral guidelines were based securely in best practice, it was like water on a ducks back. Can't see anything without the stamp of approval from RANZCOG nothing else exists. As you can tell from this the obstetricians want to usereferral guidelines based on their interpretationand not on a Midwifery best practice model of care. You would think it should be the same for Midwives and obstetricians. With a mindset like this obstetricians want complete control and veto and they hide this mindset behind the facade of 'safety'. Another issue is that they want a definition of 'low risk'. I just want to scream! Anne ClarkeBirth Centre, Brisbane
Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options.
The word obstetrician is actually derived from the Greek word for midwife obstetrix. It means to stand in front of so it actually is derived from the same root as obstruct, obfuscate, obliterate, etc. Doesn't really have a connotation of right/wrong, good/bad, per se. I often think we all need to get out from in front of the woman and turn our backs toward her so we can protect her space while she gives birth perfectly fine. Apparently in elephant communities the older females surround the birthing female with their trunks pointing away from her and their large grey bums form a protective, encircling wall. That elephant mother-to-be has to push out a lot bigger baby than any human mother will ever birth. Their senior matriarchs have complete faith in their ability. Gloria Lemay - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 12:05 PM Subject: Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options. Janet, I'M glad I'm not the only one who feels really angry when pregnant women are repeatedly told what to do as if they don't have a brain to think or seek out info for themselves. I do sometimes (not always) agree with that analogy of the spelling/definition of: Obstetrician = Obstruction ( just a few letters difference make sense don't they?) Anyway, I am prepared to be really pro-active and state here that any women who want help to obtain information about breech birth or if I can help facilitate a breech birth (at home or in hospital) feel free to please contact me I'll do my best to help. Brenda Manning [EMAIL PROTECTED] Janet Fraser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I completely agree, Brenda. And I think anger is reasonable response to women being refused the right to birth their baby vaginally. Maybe if more women got angry and said no, it would stop happening. But sObs just keep pushing the limits and no one stands up to them so now they're starting to section automatically for posterior babies. Then what? Next time that woman wants to give birth, if she goes to that surgeon, or even a different one, she'll be damaged goods and have to have more surgery or be induced because she can't go over. I can't tell you how many women have asked me for help this week alone. It's truly shocking how many women (and babies!) are being denied the basic human right of vaginal birth. And it's truly shocking how little consumers really seem to comprehend of how the system works and actually believe their Obs when they tell them total crap. OK I'm done too. For the moment! : ) J - Original Message - From: brendamanning To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 5:39 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options. Or the women could just try saying 'NO' I don't consent to surgery, I will if needed, but not just in case.. No consent, no surgery! Stay home with a capable MW for as long as possible then go to the hospital ?? I'm cross with the oBs (not that you can't tell !! Won't even give them a capital for their title !!!) BM - Original Message - From: Janet Fraser To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 9:49 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options. Hi Debbie, oddly enough I too know 2 women in exactly this position atm. The dangers of choosing a surgeon for the care of a perfectly normal pregnancy are becoming clear at this point. There's an OB at JHH that deigns to catch breech babies - Andrew Bisits (sp?) - so perhaps he's one to try. I can't imagine agreeing to major surgery, with it's attendant risks, but I also can't imagine trying to birth my baby with a bunch of cranky onlookers. Women are just plain screwed in this scenario and it drives me into a rage. I shall content myself with sharing the info on turning breech babies I seem to have been supplying on a daily basis this week. One midwife's collection of breech turning info. http://gentlebirth.org/Midwife/breechcl.html Attending a breech birth. http://gentlebirth.org/Midwife/breechbr.html Turning a breech. http://gentlebirth.org/Midwife/breechtn.html Book review on breech babies. http://www.midwiferytoday.com/reviews/breech.asp Ina May Gaskin on catching surprise breech babies! http://www.midwiferytoday.com/articles/3surprisebreeches.asp Homeopathy to turn babies in utero. http://www.midwiferytoday.com/articles/turnbaby.asp A great site on moving breech babies. http://www.spinningbabies.com A Natural Breech Birth - hospital http://www.lalecheleague.org/NB/NBMarApr01p47.html More than you could ever hope for from the UK midwives (I love these women!) http://www.radmid.demon.co.uk/breech.htm About 500 birth stories with clear descriptions
Re: [ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options.
thanks for this Janet. It's a keeper. I, too, have inquiries every other day re breech and esp breech with VBAC. Yesterday I heard from someone who is looking for someone to catch VBAC twins who are both breechsheeesh, what kind of luck is that? The woman refuses to have another section. Gloria - Original Message - From: Janet Fraser To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:49 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options. Hi Debbie, oddly enough I too know 2 women in exactly this position atm. The dangers of choosing a surgeon for the care of a perfectly normal pregnancy are becoming clear at this point. There's an OB at JHH that deigns to catch breech babies - Andrew Bisits (sp?) - so perhaps he's one to try. I can't imagine agreeing to major surgery, with it's attendant risks, but I also can't imagine trying to birth my baby with a bunch of cranky onlookers. Women are just plain screwed in this scenario and it drives me into a rage. I shall content myself with sharing the info on turning breech babies I seem to have been supplying on a daily basis this week. One midwife’s collection of breech turning info.http://gentlebirth.org/Midwife/breechcl.htmlAttending a breech birth.http://gentlebirth.org/Midwife/breechbr.htmlTurning a breech.http://gentlebirth.org/Midwife/breechtn.htmlBook review on breech babies.http://www.midwiferytoday.com/reviews/breech.aspIna May Gaskin on catching surprise breech babies!http://www.midwiferytoday.com/articles/3surprisebreeches.asp Homeopathy to turn babies in utero.http://www.midwiferytoday.com/articles/turnbaby.asp A great site on moving breech babies.http://www.spinningbabies.comA Natural Breech Birth - hospitalhttp://www.lalecheleague.org/NB/NBMarApr01p47.htmlMore than you could ever hope for from the UK midwives (I love these women!)http://www.radmid.demon.co.uk/breech.htmAbout 500 birth stories with clear descriptions.http://www.breechbabies.com/hospital_breech.htm Here's our OFP thread on NP.http://www.forums.naturalparenting.com.au/showthread.php?t=4423highlight=optimal+foetal I wonder if I know at least one of those women? All love and strength to her. J
Re: [ozmidwifery] Emailing: video05 you will like this
my virus scanner eliminated it. Gloria - Original Message - From: Susan Cudlipp To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 8:06 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Emailing: video05 you will like this Is this a genuine message or a virus? I thought that attachments could not be sent to the list - please all be cautious and do not open unless it is verified "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: lyn lyn To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 7:16 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Emailing: video05 you will like this The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments:Shortcut to: http://www.clubcultura.com/haymotivo/video05.htmNote: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may prevent sending or receiving certain types of file attachments. Check your e-mail security settings to determine how attachments are handled. No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.18/88 - Release Date: 1/09/2005
[ozmidwifery] Birth in the hurricane
(http://www.nola.com/newslogs/tporleans/index.ssf?/mtlogs/nola_tporleans/arc hives/2005_09.html#075586): 'From a crowded, dark attic surrounded by floodwater in a city pushed to the brink by Hurricane Katrina, 5 pounds, 4 ounces of hope has arrived. James Kenneth Brundy Jr. was born just after midnight Tuesday to Waldrica Nathan, 19, as she was stranded with family members in her fiance's 9th Ward attic. More than 36 hours after they were rescued by boat, Nathan and the baby were in excellent shape Wednesday at West Jefferson Medical Center in Marrero, doctors said. The child had been delivered by his father, James Brundy Sr. and his two grandparents, who had picked up a few obstetric skills from watching the Birth Channel. "The doctors said they were amazed that the family did all the right things," hospital spokeswoman Jennifer Steel said. As she lay in a maternity gown in the hospital's delivery unit, Nathan said her family's saga began Monday about 6:30 a.m. Nine months' pregnant, she and the others were forced to climb into the attic as waters rose rapidly on Metropolitan Street. By about 8 a.m. at the height of the storm, she started having contractions. While she gritted her teeth through the pain, family members dialed 911 but were told no one could help. "Boats and helicopters were passing by all day but none stopped," Nathan said. At exactly midnight, her water broke, and James Brundy Jr. was born 22 minutes later.' The grandfather "knew just where to cut the cord and how to tie a shoestring around it," she said. "We cleaned him off with some alcohol pads, wrapped him in a clean sheet, and I breast-fed. That's all he wanted to do, was eat," she said.'
Re: [ozmidwifery] More news on midwifery units
Well, you women in Oz are certainly the media darlings these days! Keep the ball rolling by phoning your local papers and asking if they'd like to do a feature on midwives, waterbirth, homebirth, birth centres or whatever you've got going. The little papers like to be led by the big ones and there will be interest. Gloria in Canada - Original Message - From: Andrea Robertson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 5:33 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] More news on midwifery units These two stories are in the Sydney Morning Herald today, along with a big colour photo, on page 3: Pregnant pause as birth program gets the push By Ruth Pollard, Health Reporter September 2, 2005 No continuity . Lisa McLean, with son Luke, two, has lost her midwife. Photo: Peter Morris The NSW Government has abandoned a midwife project at Mona Vale and Manly hospitals, leaving up to 200 women - some of whom are due to give birth in the coming month - to scramble to find places at other hospitals. Just days before the project was to go ahead, the Northern Beaches Health Service decided to shelve it and undertake a review of maternity services in the area. Lisa McLean, who is due to give birth in eight weeks, has been affected by the change. She was attracted to the program because of the continuity of care it provided to expectant mothers, who were to have been allocated to one midwife for prenatal, birthing and postnatal care. Now, the women must choose to give birth at the unit without personalised midwives, or find obstetricians or birthing centres elsewhere. Mrs McLean will stay with the unit but has no idea which midwife will be caring for her and her baby. It was to become more of a personal, one-on-one experience; they are on call, they are there for the birth and the follow-up afterwards. That is the reason a lot of women go to obstetricians, even though they don't really need to, to have that continuity of care. AdvertisementAdvertisement The general manager of the Northern Beaches Health Service, Frank Bazik, said he was not prepared to give his final approval to the project before having all maternity services reviewed to determine which birthing model was appropriate for each hospital. Insisting that it had been deferred for only two to three months, Mr Bazik said there had been no safety concerns about the program. There have been some meetings with the obstetricians about this proposed model and they are supportive of it. However, the Herald understands that staff have been told that severe budget problems at the health service were a factor in the decision. Sally Tracy, an associate professor of midwifery practice development at the University of Technology, Sydney, said there was no reason to defer the program. I have no doubt that they have been bullied into not allowing this service to go ahead . Clearly, there are people who have vested interests in this, who do not want to see a service where women go to midwives. --- Doctors irked at lack of say in midwifery talks September 2, 2005 A rift has emerged between the NSW Government and the Australian Medical Association, which says it has been shut out of consultations on the development of maternity services. So deep is the division that the association has begun a vigorous campaign to reclaim ground in the debate. Andrew Pesce, an obstetrician and senior member of the association, told the Herald that while a recent review of six international studies had found some modest benefits from midwife-assisted births, it had also found significant risks. It showed an 83 per cent increase in the risk of infant mortality, he said. Dr Pesce said NSW Health had made a policy decision to exclude the association from consultations, presumably because they know how we will respond. But Kathleen Fahy, the dean of midwifery at the University of Newcastle, and the co-author of the review, Denis Walsh, have disputed Dr Pesce's interpretation. AdvertisementAdvertisement The review, by the international non-profit group the Cochrane Collaboration, had not found a significant difference in baby deaths and it is less then honest of Dr Pesce . to imply that it did, Professor Fahy said. After reviewing each of the studies included in the review she found 60 per cent of women who were supposed to give birth assisted by a midwife had been transferred to a hospital. Yet all the baby deaths were blamed on the birthing centres, even if the baby died hours, days or months after transfer to medical care. Most deaths were due to gross prematurity, gross abnormality or an unexplained stillbirth, she said. Their [the doctors'] fear is that midwives will get a Medicare number and set up in competition and women may choose midwives as their primary care providers rather than doctors. The association's NSW president, John Gullotta, said yesterday that he had also received no response
Re: [ozmidwifery] Breastfeeding
Whenever one hears of a co sleeping death, the question needs to be asked Was the adult medicated or drunk? I get very annoyed when I hear co sleeping blamed for suffocation deaths. How did mankind survive without 2 bedroom homes until this century, for heaven's sake! Drunk and medicated adults should not be caring for young childrenthat is the real danger, it has nothing to do with bed arrangements. Gloria Lemay - Original Message - From: Nicole Carver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 4:24 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Breastfeeding SIDS figures show that falling asleep (or sleeping intentionally as well probably) on a couch with a baby is far more dangerous than co-sleeping in bed. Nicole C. (co-sleeper!) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Denise Hynd Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 8:43 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Breastfeeding Was co-sleeping and todays WA case of ?SIDS being blamed on it bu the mother and West report which also said the midwives did not stop me!! I am one midwife LC would still have no problems supporting a woman who wanted to bed share!! Denise Hynd Let us support one another, not just in philosophy but in action, for the sake of freedom for all women to choose exactly how and by whom, if by anyone, our bodies will be handled. - Linda Hes - Original Message - From: JoFromOz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 5:07 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Breastfeeding Vedrana Valčić wrote: What was the discussion about? Vedrana Mostly about research saying which people are confronted/offended by BF in public. Mostly it found that men feel funny around a mate's wife BF, etc. Just brought up discussion about BF in public generally, and how/where/ and the age you should BF until, etc. I am always interested in hearing peoples' reasons for and against it. Jo -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.15/80 - Release Date: 23/08/2005 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics Visit http://www.aceg -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] when to cut an episiotomy
In more than 25 years and over 1200 births, I am ashamed to tell you I've cut 3. One for an unyielding primip perineum which would not budge after hour of crowning. Next birth, it stretched nicely and didn't need an epis. Two, as a last ditch effort in a fatal shoulder dystocia--didn't help anything. Third for a distressed babe with bad scalp colour, born with a non pulsing cord and am glad I did it because I think there was a real problem there that MAY have compromised the baby. Gloria Lemay, Vancouver BC - Original Message - From: Andrea Quanchi To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2005 3:06 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] when to cut an episiotomy I think many midwives can claim very good episiotomy rates. Mine over twenty years in "0". My virginal scissors get taken to each birth but have never been out of the packet except to be put in a new packet and re sterilised. Who else would like to celebrate their lack of desire or interest in cutting a woman's perineum.Andrea QuanchiOn 21/08/2005, at 6:57 PM, Janet Fraser wrote: I'm not one of the professionals in here, Paivi but hi anyway. : )I've read in a few places about how episiotomy rates suddenly drop when studies into them begin. A hb MW I know does less than one a year so I figure that's a good guide.Mostly in hospitals they're performed for no reason at all but the damage they do to women's bodies and psyches horrifies me. It's sanctioned genital mutilation. In birth planning meetings I run I suggest to women that they never put their bodies in a position that can be easily reached by someone with scissors. Our rates are very high in Australia. Well IMO, any rate of episiotomy is too high unless it's negligible.Just my 2c ; )Janet - Original Message -From: Päivi To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2005 6:31 PMSubject: [ozmidwifery] when to cut an episiotomyA mom asked me when is episiotomy really needed. She had asked from many professionals, and all just gave her the answer, that "They will try to avoid episiotomy, but will cut just in case, if not sure". In Finland the episiotomyrates arefrom 4% to 50%, and for firsttime moms from 9% to 88%!. It is usually beleived, that the midwife will know best. (That is a medicalaized hospital midwife in most cases).I already know, that you have a different opinion on when it is needed, but it would be interesting to know from you, who work as midwifes, how oftenhave you performed episiotomies? Does anyone know, what is the national average in the Australian hospitals?Paivi
Re: [ozmidwifery] As if messing with humans isn't enough..
This is the same nightmare scenario we have here in lovely Vancouver, BC Canada with our beluga and killer whales in captivity at the Vancouver Aquarium. It would curl your hair. The sea mammals are ultrasounded for "science" ---what does that do to their delicate sonar?? If not for the fact that the sea mammals are large and in water, I'm sure there would be cesareans. As it is, the babies are born spontaneously (at least vaginally although being contained in a small pool as opposed to an ocean has to cramp the mother's style) but then the fun begins. The public is allowed to come into the viewing area and great throngs show up to see the cute baby and new mom trying to get together to breastfeed. Needless to say, the breast feeding does not go well. They used to gavage feed the baby whalebut they always died of infection, so the scientists "discovered" that colostrum is essential to baby whale survival. Now, the question arises, how to get that precious colostrum into the baby's gut while still selling tickets to the public H. . . . they invented a whale breast pump. So, the poor mother was lured into a "holding" pool, the water drained out of the pool once she was captive, and the pump attached to her mammaries. The colostrum was thus obtained and force fed to baby. Baby died anywaythere's more to breastfeeding and colostrum than just the substance, obviously. Peace, quiet, privacyand love seem to matter to whales, too. I have it all on tape---videotaped the evening news every night. All I could think was the words of Christ on the cross "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do." Gloria Lemay - Original Message - From: Andrea Quanchi To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2005 2:59 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] As if messing with humans isn't enough.. It might be interesting for who ever wrote this to send a letter to the orang u tan keeper at the zoo, When the Melbourne zoo gorilla had a LUSCS a few years a go I ended up in quite a series of emails with the gorilla keeper who was in fact keen to talk about what had happened and why and to explore ways they could have handled it better next time. She in fact very much led the dialogue asking questions about what she had observed and what it might have meant. Asking the PR department at the zoo would be equivilant to asking the PR department at a big hospital to describe why things happen in labour ward. But ask the midwife and you'll get a very different answer.Andrea QuanchiOn 20/08/2005, at 3:34 PM, Carolyn Hastie wrote: FYICarolyn Hastielogo_h.gifICAN E-News Line International Cesarean Awareness Network Volume 31August 17 , 2005Focus: Eve and Araca enewshorse.gif1. Essay: Eve and AracaEarly May in Utah usually brings a few warm days and this year was no exception. We enjoyed a day trip to the zoo during this warm respite. Hogle Zoo isn’t my favorite zoo, but the kids enjoy seeing the animals.Two weeks later – on Mother’s Day- Eve, a female Orangutan, had a cesarean to deliver her baby, Araca. When I first heard the news, I thought, “What else would you expect to happen? You have an animal on the endangered species list, pregnant. What zoo keeper is going to ‘risk’ that pregnancy and baby by sitting on her hands and not doing anything? And ‘anything’ is enough to slow an animal’s labor progress.” There were many articles in the following weeks about the baby’s arrival. Strangely enough, I wasn’t upset by any of them, until I happened to hear a radio ‘interview’ with one of the zoo staff. The zoo keeper described the baby’s day, being cared for by the staff, fed formula from a bottle and being held by staff in furry vests. The radio host joked with her about the care of the baby, asking how the staff avoided ‘getting messed on’. The zoo employee said, “We don’t diaper the baby, we want to do everything natural with this little orangutan.” Suddenly, I was so angry I couldn’t see straight. Here is Eve, whose birth was denied her by staff, who now rejects her own baby. Here is a baby, whose mother doesn’t recognize or claim her, being fed formula from humans, being held by humans in furry vests and being shown off between the hours of 10 a.m. until 11 a.m. and again at 2 p.m. until 3 p.m. daily, and they have the nerve to claim they are doing everything natural because the baby doesn’t have a diaper on!I don’t know the details of Eve’s birth of her daughter. When called, the Zoo will not give out any details. When asked questions like, “How did staff know Eve was in labor? How long was she in labor? Was baby in distress at birth?”- no answer is given. You and I most likely will never get the answers to the
[ozmidwifery] Re:Pre-Eclampsia
I tend to really focus on the liver in PIH cases. A woman who is drinking during preg is (by definition) an alcoholic. The stress that alcohol puts on the liver over years of drinking will show up intensely when a baby is added to the work the liver has to do. At the end of pregnancy, that over-stressed liver is working for an adult, a baby and a placenta. It's important to remember that the body is always seeking homeostasis. When the blood pressure shoots up and the mother's brain is affected (seeing stars), that is a protective mechanism. Hard to believe that the body's way of protecting the baby is to create all these dire symptoms but how else would the body alert the mother that her behaviour is destructive? I would not hold out hope that these problems would not re-occur unless I knew this woman was attending AA meetings regularly and taking a lot better care of the only liver she's got. The worst thing the midwife can do is to be another enabler of her alcoholism. (Definition of alcoholism: When a person drinks when it is not in their best interests to do so.) Gloria - Original Message - From: Philippa Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 5:24 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Re:Pre-Eclampsia This woman was using Dr Ted Weaver at Selangor Hospital (he is apparently very pro expectant management) had a very sudden onset, she was not aware of the seeing stars as a warning had no others signs. It was literally less than 3 hours from being at home to the ambo trip to hospital C/S. I am not sure that her care was the issue in this case. However she is a real stressed person at the best of times, was married at 5mths pg had 3mths to plan it, and was moving selling houses. I think she had way to much happening. She also continued to drink smoke during the pg, although a lot less (This cant have helped.) and she walked for a few months of the pg. She has heard that it is less likely for subsequent babies to the same father. True/ False/Sometimes? Thanks for all your help so far, if there is more I'll take it. Cheers Birth Buddies Supporting Women ~ Creating Life President - Friends of the Birth Centre Townsville -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] sounds during labour/birth
Thanks for this delightful post, Miriam, it made my day. Gloria in Canada - Original Message - From: Miriam Hannay [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 1:29 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] sounds during labour/birth Hello all, I vividly remember warning our elderly neighbours about the imminent home birth of our first child. They said 'make all the noise you like' and I did. Birthing my second babe on a hot summers day, i knelt in the birth pool and hung my sweaty head out the window in an attempt to catch some breeze. The next day our neighbour walked her dog past and told me 'I heard you having your baby yesterday, it was so exciting!!' I was just as noisy with number three and four, and simply can't imagine for myself feeling inhibited by the echo and resonance of my body during labour. I'm sure the cow noises opened that cervix up a treat! As a student I have since birthed with many women who felt compelled to remain silent during labour, not all of them because they wanted to, but because they needed to be 'good girls'. I have also birthed with a woman who ordered me to make the noise too, the look on the shift coordinator's face when she poked her head in the door to find a student midwife kneeling on the floor, rocking her hips and roaring like a lion was a sight to behold I can tell you. Every woman is different but I so wish all birthing women could feel open to the sounds of their birthing power. For midwives those sounds offer a 'labour assessment tool' far less invasive and often more accurate than any VE. Bring on the Bellows Regards, Miriam (2nd year Bmid FUSA) --- Belinda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: one thing that is coming out of literature which asks women about their fears is that women significantly worry about how they will act in labour. A huge Italian study found that it is one of the highest rated fears women have. In my study it is certainly a reason that women use drugs or epidural, or find relief in that they stop behaving badly once the drugs shut them up/enable compliance. A huge part of womens reflections of labour iis embarresssment in how they behaved. I think this is important to address because the idea of being quiet, compliant, neat, tidy as in NOT messy, leaky noisy sweaty - really drives womens fears and the choices they then make for labour. It is a great shame that women have particular expectations of their behavior that is in no way reassuring, okay, normal, wonderful, strong and vital to birth. Belinda Luke M Priddis wrote: Hi all, I'm a 1st year student midwife in NSW, i have asked a few questions on here before! I'm doing a group presentation with a creative arts element on the sounds women make during labour and birth - eg, how it can be beneficial, how some women don't make any noise (like myself!), and what society/media find or portray as being acceptable. Has anyone come across any research on this, read any good articles? Thanks for any help you may have, I find this group a fantastic point of information and inspiration : ) Holly (mum of four) -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: Now with unlimited storage http://au.photos.yahoo.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] ventouse information
Title: Message I have a video of a 20/20 segment from here in N. America which shows two severely injured babies after a ventouse extraction. The pediatrician on the film talks about how subgaleal hemmorhages can cause the infant to losehis/her entire blood volume. One of the baby girls in the film required extensive surgery in her first year of life and the other died from the trauma. The one who lived was presenting by the brow and the ventouse was applied over the front fontanelle. She looked like someone had hit her with a baseball bat---black eyes and huge swelling on the forehead. It's quite astounding that babies actually can take that kind of punishment and live. I'd love to send it to Australia---do you have players for VHS?? They were very critical in the film of drs applying it for longer than 30 minutes. Of course, one of the deadly things about both forceps and ventouse is the greatly increased risk of shoulder dystocia and all it's trauma. It's one thing to bring that unwilling head out that has not properly molded but then, the fundus doesn't have a chance to firm up and piston the rest of the baby out. Personally, I'd go for a cesarean before I'd allow these implements on my child's head. Not that that's any guarantee, because the ventouse and forceps are often used to help get babe's head out during surgery. Gloria - Original Message - From: Robyn Thompson To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2005 1:59 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] ventouse information Babies are affected by Ventousse and Forceps. Many babies in my years of breastfeeding data are unable to feed properly for up to 7 days due to trauma around the tempro-mandibular joint. If you watch carefully the baby is tentative, the pain is obvious as he/she avoids stretching the joint to allow the mandible to move downwards. They reduce the movement to protect themselves from the pain of extension. It is hard to imagine the pressure on their tiny little heads, the soft tissue bruising and extensive oedema. They often have difficulty breastfeeding and because of the magic 10% weight loss, many are teat fed. These little babies often need very gentle finger feeding with a periodontal syringe for the first 5 to 7 days to encourage gentle joint movement by the small let down from the long tapered tip of the syringe which flows gently over the back of the tongue creating the swallow reflex. In cases where these little babies are offered a teat it should be long and soft, definitely not teats attached to those narrow disposable hospital bottles, nor anything like the ridiculous Avent style wide neck teat with short nipple. Very gentle coaxing to move the joint with small amounts of milk at a time until the joint, soft tissue, muscles, ligaments and never endings recover. If cup feeding is used then small amounts gently given so the baby can cope with the flow when trying to co-ordinate the use of the painful tempro-mandibular joint. Robyn -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nicole CarverSent: Sunday, 31 July 2005 12:00 PMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] ventouse information One of the presentations at ICM was about ventouse. There are known side effects. Minor ones include caput succanadeum which is swelling of the scalp and cephal haematoma which is bruising between the skull bone and its membrane covering. The major one was a sub apponeuretic haemorrhage which I think is inside the skull and so the bleeding is less limited because there is more space, and the baby can lose quite a bit of blood. It can also cause pressure on the brain. The midwife suggested that hourly head circumferences after a ventouse might pick these up early. However, they are very rare. The higher the baby when the ventouse is applied, and the longer the time it is applied seems to be important. The pressure should not be on continuously for more than ten minutes, and the obstetrician should not use it for more than 2-3 contractions. I have had a quick look through the program, but can't find the midwife's name. She also mentioned an australian doctor who has a website with a lot of info about ventouse. I will check my notes and get back to you. Just going out for a bike ride with the family. Nicole. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Megan LarrySent: Sunday, July 31, 2005 11:37 AMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] ventouse information AnOsteopath may have some info on it, maybe try through the association, ora local practitioner? It is probably another of those practices (ventouse) that hasn't been looked into
Re: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation.
I've been told that once the first twin is birthed,
the second attendant should stand behind the mother and press attendants' hands
firmly against the sides of the uterus from the backto encourage the
second one to be a longitudinal lies. Has anyone on this list done
this? I have virtually no experience with twins.
There is an absolutely beautiful DVD of twins born
unassisted at home that has come onto the market here in N. A. It is the
birth of full term 7 lb babies and the mother is so cool. When she
realizes the 2nd one is coming footling breech, she say "Oh shit, it's a
foot". Her husband, who is holding the first born twin and the 2 y.o. as
well as videotaping, says "What do you want me to do?" She replies "Keep
videotaping!" The film is a real gift in a world gone mad.
Gloria
- Original Message -
From:
Lindsay
Yvette
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 3:57
PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging
twins into a good presentation.
Thanks Gloria. It's encouraging that you reckon it's very unlikely
they'll stay transverse. My friend is currently 36 weeks with same kind
of twins, hers have been both head down for ages, now the higher
one is transverse. I gather if at least the lower one gets her head
lined up nicely the other one could do anything even after the first one is
born (if they give her a chance).
If they were still transverse at 38 weeks I suppose there's no chance of
them moving around at that stage?
My lower baby currently has her head closer to the cervix than her bum,
so I suppose it could be ok. They're growing really fast now.
Yvette
39 yo mother of 3 (all normal births)
pg with monochorionic diamniotic twin girls.
Melbourne Australia
- Original Message -
From:
Gloria
Lemay
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 10:25
AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging
twins into a good presentation.
Hi Yvette, I hate to see someone worried
about position at 34 weeks. Certainly if the baby is clearly a
breech presentation in a singleton, 34 weeks is a good time to get going on
encouraging a turn around. The thing that's different with twins is
that you're not going to do a version for breech anyway. Remember that
your lovely uterus is ovoid in shape. As these babies get bigger, the
shape of the uterus will press them into a longitudinal lie, either cephalic
or breech but not transverse. It's simply a matter of letting nature
take it's course. Be patient, acknowledge yourself for carrying these
babies past 32 weeks and let them do what they're going to do. It
would be extremely unusual if they persist in being in odd positions past 36
weeks. Even the tightenings of the birth process will press the head
or bum towards the bony pelvis.
I'm excited to hear the news of their
arrival. Best regards, Gloria
- Original Message -
From:
Lindsay Yvette
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 3:47
PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging
twins into a good presentation.
Hi, I've posted here before about my twins pregnancy. I'm now
34 weeks pregnant, and the babies are top to tail transverse, have
been this way for about a month now. I'm starting to get worried
about their presentation the hospital has booked me in for C-section
at 38 weeks in case they stay transverse.
I'm trying to spend time on hands and knees, and sit on a birth ball,
and I'm seeing the hospital physio about a brace on Monday for SPD, which
I've read might help (I'm having lots of ligament pain).
Anysuggestions or comments about encouraging twins into a good
presentation? The babies are now 2315g 2972g (5lb 2 6lb
9). The smaller baby was always head down at the bottom, but they've
switched now the heavier one is lower.
Yvette
39 yo mother of 3 (all normal births)
pg with monochorionic diamniotic twin girls.
Melbourne
Australia
Re: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation.
Here's her website, it has lots of stills of the births but the DVD is just so special. Highly recommended. http://www.earthbirthproductions.com/index_files/Page864.htm - Original Message - From: brendamanning To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 6:30 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation. Gloria, Would you be happy to share the name where that DVD can be found.? It could be inspirational for some women ( and OBs) here ? Thanks Brenda M - Original Message - From: Gloria Lemay To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 11:09 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation. I've been told that once the first twin is birthed, the second attendant should stand behind the mother and press attendants' hands firmly against the sides of the uterus from the backto encourage the second one to be a longitudinal lies. Has anyone on this list done this? I have virtually no experience with twins. There is an absolutely beautiful DVD of twins born unassisted at home that has come onto the market here in N. A. It is the birth of full term 7 lb babies and the mother is so cool. When she realizes the 2nd one is coming footling breech, she say "Oh shit, it's a foot". Her husband, who is holding the first born twin and the 2 y.o. as well as videotaping, says "What do you want me to do?" She replies "Keep videotaping!" The film is a real gift in a world gone mad. Gloria - Original Message - From: Lindsay Yvette To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 3:57 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation. Thanks Gloria. It's encouraging that you reckon it's very unlikely they'll stay transverse. My friend is currently 36 weeks with same kind of twins, hers have been both head down for ages, now the higher one is transverse. I gather if at least the lower one gets her head lined up nicely the other one could do anything even after the first one is born (if they give her a chance). If they were still transverse at 38 weeks I suppose there's no chance of them moving around at that stage? My lower baby currently has her head closer to the cervix than her bum, so I suppose it could be ok. They're growing really fast now. Yvette 39 yo mother of 3 (all normal births) pg with monochorionic diamniotic twin girls. Melbourne Australia - Original Message - From: Gloria Lemay To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 10:25 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation. Hi Yvette, I hate to see someone worried about position at 34 weeks. Certainly if the baby is clearly a breech presentation in a singleton, 34 weeks is a good time to get going on encouraging a turn around. The thing that's different with twins is that you're not going to do a version for breech anyway. Remember that your lovely uterus is ovoid in shape. As these babies get bigger, the shape of the uterus will press them into a longitudinal lie, either cephalic or breech but not transverse. It's simply a matter of letting nature take it's course. Be patient, acknowledge yourself for carrying these babies past 32 weeks and let them do what they're going to do. It would be extremely unusual if they persist in being in odd positions past 36 weeks. Even the tightenings of the birth process will press the head or bum towards the bony pelvis. I'm excited to hear the news of their arrival. Best regards, Gloria - Original Message - From: Lindsay Yvette To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 3:47 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation. Hi, I've posted here before about my twins pregnancy. I'm now 34 weeks pregnant, and the babies are top to tail transverse, have been this way for about a month now. I'm starting to get worried about their presentation the hospital has booked me in for C-section at 38 weeks in case they stay transverse. I'm trying to spend time on hands and knees, and sit on a birth ball, and I'm seeing the
Re: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation.
Hi Yvette, I hate to see someone worried about position at 34 weeks. Certainly if the baby is clearly a breech presentation in a singleton, 34 weeks is a good time to get going on encouraging a turn around. The thing that's different with twins is that you're not going to do a version for breech anyway. Remember that your lovely uterus is ovoid in shape. As these babies get bigger, the shape of the uterus will press them into a longitudinal lie, either cephalic or breech but not transverse. It's simply a matter of letting nature take it's course. Be patient, acknowledge yourself for carrying these babies past 32 weeks and let them do what they're going to do. It would be extremely unusual if they persist in being in odd positions past 36 weeks. Even the tightenings of the birth process will press the head or bum towards the bony pelvis. I'm excited to hear the news of their arrival. Best regards, Gloria - Original Message - From: Lindsay Yvette To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 3:47 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation. Hi, I've posted here before about my twins pregnancy. I'm now 34 weeks pregnant, and the babies are top to tail transverse, have been this way for about a month now. I'm starting to get worried about their presentation the hospital has booked me in for C-section at 38 weeks in case they stay transverse. I'm trying to spend time on hands and knees, and sit on a birth ball, and I'm seeing the hospital physio about a brace on Monday for SPD, which I've read might help (I'm having lots of ligament pain). Anysuggestions or comments about encouraging twins into a good presentation? The babies are now 2315g 2972g (5lb 2 6lb 9). The smaller baby was always head down at the bottom, but they've switched now the heavier one is lower. Yvette 39 yo mother of 3 (all normal births) pg with monochorionic diamniotic twin girls. Melbourne Australia
Re: [ozmidwifery] Things/g. Lemay
I think the key word here is "discernible". Even pulsations in the cord are difficult to pick up when you're in "emergency mode". I read on another list that there was a lunar eclipse nine months ago that could be the reason we're seeing all these strange births last week. Gloria - Original Message - From: Ken WArd To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 5:51 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Things/g. Lemay I have been present for a couple of births where there has been no discernable heart rate at birth. These babies responded well to resuscitation. I also know of a baby who had no heart rate for 40 mins. He finally responded to intra-cardiac adrenaline. He's very compromised. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Jenny CameronSent: Wednesday, 20 July 2005 11:39 AMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Things/g. Lemay Melissa Perhaps neck stretching due to the face presenting resulted inexcess stimulation to the vagus nerve resulting in profound bradycardia. Baby probably did have a heart rate; just very slow and hard to hear or palpate. It is very unusual for cardiac arrest to occur in a neonate and when it does it is usually not possible to reuscitate the baby. It is a terminal event. Jenny Jennifer Cameron FRCNA FACMPO Box 1465Howard Springs NT 0835 0419 528 717 - Original Message - From: Melissa Singer To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 11:34 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Things/g. Lemay Last week I attended a birth with mentum anterior (diagnosed on view). Head was born then 3 minutes later the rest of the baby. Apgars 3, 5, 7, 7. Wt 4.7kgs, peri intact. Why were the apgars at birth so low (no heart rate at all when born) and the fetal heart rate had been fine during her rapid labour and second sage and some baby's sit there for seven minutes without a problem? Melissa - Original Message - From: Tania Smallwood To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 5:53 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Things/g. Lemay Well it must have been the moon then last Friday my colleague and I went to see a woman for an antenatal appt, all well at 39 weeks, and then 30 minutes later SROM while we were on our way to the next appt, 40 minutes of labour, hubby rushing through the door, no equipment, kids scissors boiling in a pot on the stove, cord ties thrown together with embroidery thread, baby born in the spa! Lovely, but what a rush for all! Tania x From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Gloria LemaySent: Tuesday, 19 July 2005 3:25 AMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Things/g. Lemay Congratulations, Mary! Last Thurs night I attended a face presentation where the little mentum anterior face/head just sat there turning purple for way longer than I needed. Same thing, tincture of time and it rotated and squooshed into Dad's hands with only 1/2 inch tear. That must have been some crazy midwife moon! Gloria - Original Message - From: Mary Murphy To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, July 18, 2005 5:24 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Things/g. Lemay Hi Gloria, remember I said I would ask the mother about posting her C/S Lotus Placenta on Midwifery Today? She said it is fine with her.// Re the delay with the head before birth of the body? Lieve said it might be the moon? A week ago I was 2nd midwife at a lovely home waterbirth and guess what? Babys head was born and 7 minutes later the body was born with the next available contraction. It did seem like a long time and the primary midwife and I had to hold our mouths shut so we wouldnt do the just give a little push instruction. All well. No need to do anything except talk to the baby. Cheers, MM No
Re: [ozmidwifery] Privacy, comfort and dignity during birth
Thanks for that story, too, Alesa. It reminds me of a Greek woman that I cared for many years ago. She was dragged by her friend to my childbirth classes. She was very frightened to be having a second baby and her first birth had been a brutal forceps extraction. She had no confidence in her ability to give birth. I got to know her and was hired to do hospital support. In one of the prenatal visits, she told me about her grandmother's birth of twins in Greece. Apparently, her grandmother was getting a very hard time from the other villagers because her pregnancy seemed to be taking forever. She got so fed up with all the comments about how big she was that she decided to take her donkey and ride out to the next village to visit her sister for the day. On the way back, she began having cramps and pressure and, finally, she had to get down off the donkey and squat. Out slipped the baby so she gathered it up in her skirts and got back on the donkey to ride home. A little further along the road, she felt more cramps and extreme pressure so she got down again and squatted and another baby came out! The placenta followed and she scooped up both babes and the placenta and rode back into her village with that collection in her arms. After hearing that story, I said to my client "You are from a long line of women who were able to give birth beautifully. This story will be our inspiration for the birth you're going to have." We kept her at home until late first stage and then took her into the hosp that was 20 mins away. When we arrived she squatted down on the floor and her membranes released. She continued to squat while holding onto the end of the bed. The physician came in and lay down on his tummy to catch the baby. It was so amazing to see that lineage of giving birth while squattingre-instated. Thought I would share that Greek story. Gloria - Original Message - From: AlisonThrum To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 1:16 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Privacy, comfort and dignity during birth Thanks for your reply. You are right about our perceptions sometimes and this gives me another view of the issue. Alison - Original Message - From: Alesa Koziol To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 12:07 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Privacy, comfort and dignity during birth I vividly remember a young Greek woman many years ago sitting in a corner of the room labouring away totally oblivious to the many conversations in the room. There were 23 'support' people in this room who were really getting in the way and taking absolutely no notice (much to her disgust) of the very important midwife, who was in charge of all important medical typethings . However said midwife on one trip out of the room to fetch some very important piece of equipment actually reflected on the labouring woman and perhaps she had an epiphany because she realised that for this particular woman the noise of her close family members doing what they always did when they got together (talked and chatted in small groups amongst themselves) was exactly right for her. When the young woman started to make very obvious birth type noises, most of the 23 melted away to wait for birth outside the room, leaving just the now humbled midwife, the father of the baby and the two grandmothers. A very valuable learning tool for the midwife, who now really looks at the woman when there are support people chatting and asks herself "Is this bothering the woman?". If not she does not interfere. Cheers Alesa Who really tries to keep the number of support people below 23 these days:) Alesa KoziolClinical Midwifery EducatorMelbourne - Original Message - From: Barbara Stokes To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 9:53 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Privacy, comfort and dignity during birth Dear Alison, I am a midwife in small public hospital. It is important to maintain privacy to mothers in labour, quietness and I like to have soft lights. Reduce the support teams chatter to minimal. This is sometimes difficult when you get both mother/mother-in law present, plus sisters and partner: they all want to chat about everything else in their lives. The use of a sheet as a birthing cape can help mother form her own world. With the birth of my own babies, I felt the all fours position disempowering. However I let mothers chose their own positioning. Barbara -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [ozmidwifery] Things/g. Lemay
did you have a pulsing cord, Melissa? what did the baby get 3 for at one min? Gloria - Original Message - From: Melissa Singer To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, July 18, 2005 7:04 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Things/g. Lemay Last week I attended a birth with mentum anterior (diagnosed on view). Head was born then 3 minutes later the rest of the baby. Apgars 3, 5, 7, 7. Wt 4.7kgs, peri intact. Why were the apgars at birth so low (no heart rate at all when born) and the fetal heart rate had been fine during her rapid labour and second sage and some baby's sit there for seven minutes without a problem? Melissa - Original Message - From: Tania Smallwood To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 5:53 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Things/g. Lemay Well it must have been the moon then last Friday my colleague and I went to see a woman for an antenatal appt, all well at 39 weeks, and then 30 minutes later SROM while we were on our way to the next appt, 40 minutes of labour, hubby rushing through the door, no equipment, kids scissors boiling in a pot on the stove, cord ties thrown together with embroidery thread, baby born in the spa! Lovely, but what a rush for all! Tania x From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Gloria LemaySent: Tuesday, 19 July 2005 3:25 AMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Things/g. Lemay Congratulations, Mary! Last Thurs night I attended a face presentation where the little mentum anterior face/head just sat there turning purple for way longer than I needed. Same thing, tincture of time and it rotated and squooshed into Dad's hands with only 1/2 inch tear. That must have been some crazy midwife moon! Gloria - Original Message - From: Mary Murphy To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, July 18, 2005 5:24 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Things/g. Lemay Hi Gloria, remember I said I would ask the mother about posting her C/S Lotus Placenta on Midwifery Today? She said it is fine with her.// Re the delay with the head before birth of the body? Lieve said it might be the moon? A week ago I was 2nd midwife at a lovely home waterbirth and guess what? Babys head was born and 7 minutes later the body was born with the next available contraction. It did seem like a long time and the primary midwife and I had to hold our mouths shut so we wouldnt do the just give a little push instruction. All well. No need to do anything except talk to the baby. Cheers, MM
Re: [ozmidwifery] Labour coaching techniques
"It's safe to let go" "You only have to do this one" "Breathe right down into it, it's safe to go there" "Breathe oxygen down to your thighs, that's it. . . breathe in oxygen and breathe out with loose lips." "What you're doing is ancient. . . your mother, your grandmother and your great grandmothers all the way back have done this. They're all proud of you tonight." "If you're doing this well now, I know you'll make it through. Each sensation brings you closer to holding your baby in your arms". "I'm so proud of you. You're doing beautifully". "Let's begin this birth anew. Just let your breath wash away the past 5 hours and lets begin now at the beginning." "Breathe some good oxygen breaths for your baby." "There's lots of room for the baby to come through". "You're stretching beautifully. . there's more space than you know" "Just let the baby get itself born, you get out of the way" Gloria Lemay, Vancouver BC Canada - Original Message - From: Helen and Graham To: ozmidwifery Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2005 4:54 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Labour coaching techniques Hi Lynette and others, Thanks for your response and support, you have given me food for thought. I am actually aware that it ismore useful to keep quiet a lot of the time and feel that I am quite intuitive in this regard. I am also aware that my job isn't to be "in charge" of the situation and do prefer to just keep in the backgroundmost of the time quietly monitoring the situation. I find this approach encourages the partner/support person to become more involved and gives them greater satisfactionwith/control over their birthing experience.It is just good to have some inspirational phrases up your sleeve to use as appropriate for the right woman at the right time and I have, over the years, heard a few and developed a few of my own, which I have thought were just that, but as I have been out of mid for some time and I value the opinions of those on this list, I thought it would be a good opportunity to ask. Thanks again Helen Cahill - Original Message - From: Lynette Kelson To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 5:30 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Labour coaching techniques Hi Helen, Sorry to respond off list but I find it takes up so much time if I stay online for the list to sort all the messages. I just wanted to say to you about the power of rhythmic sound in labour as a support tool, such as drumming. I have experienced the feeling "corny" aspect of lines in labour room support care. I also agree with one of the other responses about the less we say the better, and protect the environment instead. Drumming and rhythmic sound is something that you do need a bit of antenatal time to introduce as some people will think you are mad. A gentle constant drum beat can be useful as you can increase the tempo and the volume with the rise and fall of contractions. The primal mood of drums aids the primitive mind function and reduces the verbal interactions that stimulate frontal brain activity. Also very goodfor support people to do something.( I am speaking only from anecdote here. None of this has any research base but I like to think this is how it works). Just a thought form a left field midwifery practitioner. Good luck in re-integrating into the care of women in moments when miracles happen. Regards Lyn MIPP Central Vic__ NOD32 1.1169 (20050714) Information __This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.http://www.eset.com
Re: [ozmidwifery] physiological 3rd stage
Thank you so much, Mary. You've got to love Dr. John. I have a story from the early days of Canada's settlement about 3rd stage management. One of our First Nations women was taken to a "settlement" because the placenta seemed to be adhered to her body. When the dr and nurses inspected, they couldn't believe that the placenta, uterus, bladder and bowel were all pulled out. After that horrifying case,a public healthnurse was sent in to the native settlement to find out what was going on with the mw because they'd never seen such a thing before---usually the mws handled things very well. Sure enough, the nurse witnessed the mw jumping right away to pull on the placenta. She had an overwhelming fear of the placenta being inside and, for some reason, thought it had to come away quickly. The nurse grabbed her and prevented her from interfering. The mw was beside herself but prevented from acting. After 1/2 hr, the placenta came in a healthy way and the mw was amazed. The nurse gave her an alarm clock and told her "If I'm not here, you wait 30 mins before touching the woman or I'll come back and hit you with a frying pan". That became her rule and they never again had any transports to the settlement for p.p. problems. After I read that story, I started having that policy too. It works. I think it's very important to tell the parents beforehand that the birth is not complete until the placenta comes out. They must plan to continue with the dark, quiet and privacy of the birth until the placenta is birthed. This discussion with both parentsprevents the father from grabbing his cell phone and making announcement calls in that precious newborntime period. The mw "guarding the normal" extends well past the moment of birth into the placenta and nursing time. Gloria Lemay, Vancouver, BC Canada - Original Message - From: Mary Murphy To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 5:35 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] physiological 3rd stage http://www.midwiferytoday.com/articles/bristol.asp Try this link Sue. Cheers, MM Thanks Mary - I'd like to see it - would you post or fax to me? Fax no is 94545953 - if you don't have it on file. Sue Sue I have an article By Dr John Stevenson critiquing the Prendiville third stage trial. The doctors wouldnt take any notice as they deregistered him for supporting homebirth practices etc. Im sure I have it somewhere if you want it for yourself, cheers, MM Hi Denise I wanted some info that I could use in promoting physiological 3rd stage to doctors. I am aware of recent studies which say that oxtocin should be routine for 3rd stage, and this seems to have been adopted almost completely in hospitals. Where a woman chooses otherwise there is little to help support her choice within an obstetrically managed model of care. If there are any studies out there that could present this arguement I would like to read them. The post script to this birth was that she had an induction yesterday at T+ 4 for raised BP, had a quick labour and normal delivery, standing, oxytocin third stage, but with a sympathetic midwife who did not 'rush' this bit. All is well and home today, quite happy with events. I just think it's such a shame that her opinion was opposed, fairly aggressively, I wish we saw more women take the trouble to inform themselves as this young lady did. Thanks,Sue "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: Denise Hynd To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 6:47 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] physiological 3rd stage Dear Sue Who is it you want the evidence for woman or the Ob?The women has accept the dr's scaremongering I think both need information on what is informed consent And she needs to be reminded to trust her own god given body's ability to give birth which if she were in many other "undeveloped" countries would not be questioned see the Health Consumer's Council pages and leaflets http://www.hcc-wa.asn.au/pages/questions_doc.html and as you sad on the cascade of Intervention I can hear it in operation from here!! Denise Hynd "Let us support one another, not just in philosophy but in action, for the sake of freedom
[ozmidwifery] Intro
I've just joined the list and live in Vancouver, BC Canada. Some of you know me from articles I've written for Midwifery Today Magazine or just from being a generally uppity, brazen woman. Lieve told me you were discussing the "drama in birth" thread and I have read the posts with interest. It's so elusive, isn't it, trying to describe what birth "is". It's very paradoxical a rites of passage, yet an ordinary day profound and spiritual yet down and dirty complex yet so simple intimate yet lonely and solitary painful yet pleasurable a huge accomplishment yet not of our doing Just when I think I know something about birth, something proves I know nothing once again. What afun profession to be in. I would hope that introducing the lens of "drama" to examining birth would lead not so much to pointing fingers of blame for what's wrong with birth but, rather, to each player owning their own need for drama and lightening up a bit about it.When I had my last baby, I learned a technique for "disappearing" pain and used it all through the birth process. I only had about 5 minutes when I thought "Gloria, you idiot, you knew it would feel like this, why are you here again?!" As soon as the baby was out, I had this huge wave of regret. . . . .I had had a painless birth and had no story to tell, oh dear. I realized what an idiot I was, of course. Who in their right mind would want a dramatic story over a smooth birth?? I share that story with other women so they can take a look at the inner need for a big story in their own lives. When we get these things out of the closet and into the light of day, we become more powerful. The only demons that control us are the ones within. As a birth attendant, too, I can see that I have a need to be a "saviour" and a 'hero" instead of a fly on the wall. Dramatic births are food for the insatiable ego. Learning to love the simple, silent arrivals with only a flickering, fleetingglance of gratitude from the woman transformed into mother. . . that is the quest of our spirits. I look forward to getting to know you on this list. Gloria Lemay, Vancouver, BC Canada
