RE: [ozmidwifery] Frustration

[Ken Ward]

One tries, but often these women have been convinced that an IOL or C/S is
vital. When queried,or one tries to counsel them the reply is often 'O, I'm
here now, I may as well go through with it.'
  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Janet at home
  Sent: Thursday, 1 March 2007 11:21 PM
  To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
  Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Frustration


  That must be very frustrating. Do you or your other midwife colleagues
have any strategies for challenging these management decisions given that
they are clearly not evidence based, are gross overservicing and just plain
dangerous?

  J



  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michelle Windsor
  Sent: Thursday, 1 March 2007 8:50 PM
  To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Frustration



  It amazes me that sometimes these doctors just don't seem to learn.  We
have had a run of inductions and LUSCS for either SGA or LGA lately because
'the scan said such  such'.  The SGA's that I've seen have ranged from
2.8-3.1kg and the LGA's from 3.4-4.1kg.  One lady recently had a LUCSC for
her 4th bub because by USS it was 12 pound. Surprise, suprise out came an 8
pounder which was less than her last vaginally born baby.   Grr

  Michelle

  - Original Message 
  From: Ken Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: ozmidwifery ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
  Sent: Thursday, 1 March, 2007 2:46:51 PM
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] Frustration

  Delightful doctor told his lady that the episi he cut which extended to a
  3rd degree tear was so extensive that she would need a C/S next time. Also
  she would need to be reviewed, and may need the repair repaired by another
  dr. One wonders what he has done. Of course it will all be her and/or the
  baby's fault. Gr


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[ozmidwifery] Frustration

[Ken Ward]

Delightful doctor told his lady that the episi he cut which extended to a
3rd degree tear was so extensive that she would need a C/S next time. Also
she would need to be reviewed, and may need the repair repaired by another
dr. One wonders what he has done. Of course it will all be her and/or the
baby's fault. Gr


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[ozmidwifery] CPD stories

[Ken Ward]

Met a woman who told me she had had a C/S for CPD with 1st bub. Had a home
birth with 2nd, who was 2lb heavier.  I believe CPD does occur, but is very
rare.
As with 'fetal distress', also does occur, it's often used for an excuse to
section a woman. We need to accept that sometimes there is a genuine need to
interfere. Looking at the improvement in outcomes for women and babies, and
seeing the awful things happening in the Developing world there is a need
for some obstetric intervention in some cases.  I do agree that our rate of
intervention is far too high, and often have a song and dance about it.


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[ozmidwifery] Grieving families

[Ken Ward]

For those unaware, SIDS and KIDS have a 'Treasured Baby' programme. We send
out packs for babies from about 16 weeks gestation. They have a nightie,
knitted set, sleeping bag, certificate in decorated tube for smaller bubs.
For 18 to term the packs have two nighties, two knitted sets, a bunny rug, a
blanket, the certificate, all made to size by volunteers from donated
materials. We also have memory boxes with tiny bonnets and bootees for
miscarriages, remembrance boxes for all the keepsakes and little burial
boxes, lined and decorated. We send packs to many of the units here in
Victoria and some in NSW. Any unit can obtain the packs. The vast majority
of volunteers have lost babies, and find this is a healing activity. Feed
back from families is extremely positive. So, as well as photos, there are
things that acknowledges the birth of the baby, no matter the gestation, and
can provide memories.  Maureen


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RE: [ozmidwifery] Grieving families

[Ken Ward]

Nothing. Sids and Kids even pay the postage. Because everything is donated
we can offer these as gifts. Naturally we are always seeking donations, so
if anyone has surplus wool in 3  4ply in baby colours, or can help out with
materials, i.e. pastel flannelette, fleece, interlock. We also need small
boxes, which are then painted and decorated. Any money has to go to SK and
we don't see it. I'll take some photos and hopefully post them. Any one can
drop into the centre and see what we do. Open Tuesdays and Fridays 9.30 -12.
Maureen

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Hge.elen and
Graham
Sent: Thursday, 22 February 2007 10:42 AM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Grieving families


How much do they cost Maureen?

Helen
- Original Message -
From: Ken Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ozmidwifery ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 8:02 AM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Grieving families


 For those unaware, SIDS and KIDS have a 'Treasured Baby' programme. We
 send
 out packs for babies from about 16 weeks gestation. They have a nightie,
 knitted set, sleeping bag, certificate in decorated tube for smaller bubs.
 For 18 to term the packs have two nighties, two knitted sets, a bunny rug,
 a
 blanket, the certificate, all made to size by volunteers from donated
 materials. We also have memory boxes with tiny bonnets and bootees for
 miscarriages, remembrance boxes for all the keepsakes and little burial
 boxes, lined and decorated. We send packs to many of the units here in
 Victoria and some in NSW. Any unit can obtain the packs. The vast majority
 of volunteers have lost babies, and find this is a healing activity. Feed
 back from families is extremely positive. So, as well as photos, there are
 things that acknowledges the birth of the baby, no matter the gestation,
 and
 can provide memories.  Maureen


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RE: [ozmidwifery] RE: reflux

[Ken Ward]

I've had two very unsettled babies. One was diagnosed with rel\flux, then  a
behaviour problem,( at seven months!) and then lactose intolerance. vomiting
and diarrhoea.  We finally took him to a chiropractor at nine months who
manipulated his neck, and he was a different baby.  My last little person
was so miserable, unsettled and yucky. I was house bound for months because
she wouldn't settle and going out was a trial.  Again vomiting but this one
was constipated. She grew into a whingy, whiney toddler, temper tantrums,
always into everything. She was slow with speech and understanding, but her
physical skills were excellent. I actually went back to work to get away
from her. I finally sought help when she was four. She's allergic to cow
milk protein and vanilla. Five years later we are still battling, but it is
much better. We think part of her behaviour was due to cerebral irritation
related to the allergies.  Babies 1 and 3 were lovely little people,
normal. Babies cry for many reasons,  not always oblivious, one needs to
'think outside the square' and be flexible in thinking.
  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Alesa Koziol
  Sent: Saturday, 3 February 2007 5:28 PM
  To: ozmidwifery
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] RE: reflux


  Not wishing to simplify this discussion but I found this somewhere, years
ago and it took my fancy, (don't know if it is a genuine quote, but if it
is..) it suggests that colic and its associated parental concerns have been
with us for a very long time!

  “……Peine in the belly is a common disease of children……….



  The childe cannot rest but cryeth and fretteth itself



  Moreover the noyse and rumbling in the guttes, hither and thider,



  declareth the childe to be greved, with wynde in the belly, and



  colyke…….”




  Thomas Phaire’s “Boke of Chyldren”, 1545


  Cheers

  Alesa

RE: [ozmidwifery] Article about natural birth and brain haemorrhage

[Ken Ward]

It has shown that the bleeds can be considered 'normal' so may help to
reduce legal action when a child does not develop normally.
  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Alesa Koziol
  Sent: Saturday, 3 February 2007 5:41 PM
  To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Article about natural birth and brain
haemorrhage


  Pardon my scepticism but what exactly did this research prove? With so
many variables I am surprised that any conclusions could be drawn!
  Alesa

Haven't they got anything better to research??!!

Helen
http://www.guardian.co.uk/medicine/story/0,,2001561,00.html
One in four natural births causes brain haemorrhage
Ian Sample
Tuesday January 30, 2007
The Guardian
Giving birth naturally increases the risk of minor brain haemorrhages in
newborn babies, according to a study. Brain scans of babies aged between one
and five weeks showed small ruptures in blood vessels in or around the brain
are common, affecting one in four children born naturally.
Babies delivered by caesarean section showed no signs of even minor
bleeding.

In most cases, the haemorrhages are harmless and heal naturally, but
larger ruptures can affect brain development, leading to seizures, or
problems with learning or coordination.


Doctors at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, used magnetic
resonance imaging (MRI) to scan 88 healthy newborns. Of the 65 delivered
naturally, 17 had intracranial haemorrhages and seven had ruptures in at
least two separate regions.
John Gilmore, a professor of psychiatry and lead scientist on the study,
said the bleeding was not caused by the size of the baby or the baby's head,
the duration of labour, or the use of vacuum or forceps to assist delivery.
The bleeds are probably caused by pressure on the skull during delivery,
he said.

The scientists noticed the high rate of haemorrhages while conducting
scans to assess brain development in children perceived to be at high risk
of mental disorders. What we've shown is that if you get these bleeds, you
don't have to think something has gone wrong with the delivery, because
these are common, said Prof Gilmore, whose study is published in Radiology.

The team will conduct further scans when the babies are one and two
years old. This may help doctors assess future cases of shaken baby
syndrome, where injuries to a baby are contested. In some cases, parents or
guardians claim brain injuries have been inflicted naturally at birth. The
scans may reveal whether small haemorrhages at birth grow to become more
threatening, or gradually heal with time.
Special reports
Medicine and health

Useful links
British Medical Association
Department of Health
General Medical Council
Health on the Net Foundation
Institute of Cancer Research
Medical Research Council
NHS Direct
Royal Institute of Public Health
World Health Organisation

[ozmidwifery] re co-sleeping

[Ken Ward]

It's not necessarily the midwives preventing co-sleeping. I often hear 'the
baby's been awake all night. Would go to sleep and wake up as soon as I  put
him down.'  When  suggestions are made to co-sleep, they don't want to
start bad habits.  a lot of women are influenced by their mothers,
partners etc,  who don't approve of co-sleeping., thank God the influence on
breast feeding isn't quite as strong as it used to be.  It's strange, these
little ones are expected to sleep on a hard, cold surface after been
snuggled up listening to mum for months.   If I remember right a co-sleeping
policy was short and sweet. Mum had to be sedative free, the bedside up and
bed as low as possible.  
Ken  Maureen Ward
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

attachment: winmail.dat

RE: [ozmidwifery] Woops

[Ken Ward]

Thats great

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of brendamanning
Sent: Thursday, 18 January 2007 5:00 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Woops


Sorry forgot the list doesn't handle attachments !!

Hi Jassy,

The resources listed below are great for turning a breech baby.
Your baby is transverse, this is a different picture.
Be reassured than unless there is a good reason not to then most transverse
babies turn to present head down before labour begins.

There are a few questions to ask yourself:
1. Do you know where the placenta is ? You probably had an 18/40 week scan,
it would be mentioned on the result, you can phone you care-giver  ask if
you don't know.
Babies tend to lie facing their placentas, if the placenta is low down in
the uterus then the baby will probably also be low down.
If there is anything else in the uterus low down preventing the baby getting
his/her head into the pelvis then you would need to know about it ( ie
fibroids, cysts).
This maybe why s/he is lying transverse.

2. Do you have less than a 6 pack of tummy muscles (I'm being kind here)?
You mentioned this was your second baby, if your abdo muscles aren't strong
enough to support that heavy uterus then the baby can adopt any position
s/he likes with little or no resistance.
Wearing a firm abdo binder (your midwife or have them ) will correct this,
it supports the abdo muscles to in turn support the uterus  the baby is
then encouraged strongly to adopt the head down position.

See this article Originally published here: I have abridged it for you.

The Rebozo

A transcription of the rebozo workshop given by Doña Irene Sotelo and Naolí
Vinaver

© 2001 Midwifery Today, Inc. All rights reserved.


ABDOMINAL BINDERS TO ASSISIT IN APPLYING HEAD TO CERVIX, CORRECTING

MALPRESENTATIONS   STIMULATING EFFECTIVE DILATION.

The rebozo is also used in the midwife's bag. It is a piece of cloth that
can be used to wrap around a woman's belly. The woman who's had many babies
and has a big belly that falls out onto her lap, well, usually the baby is
not well aligned in her body. Actually, she may have contractions and have
labor for a long time. Even though she's had babies, baby can't come out
because baby's resting outside. It's just out there on the bed or out there
in the air, and you need to bring that baby back into her body. The rebozo
is a very convenient way of doing it. What I've done is lay the woman down
and have gravity pull the baby back inside her, and then I tighten the
rebozo around, with the knot on the side, so that she cannot feel the knot
if she's leaning. And I just make it nice and tight, usually as tight as I
can, because the belly is a huge weight. Then she can get up and have the
baby once the baby has fallen back into place. [It positions the baby back
over the cervix to help it dilate in labor.]

Due to LGA, I suggest mother do daily kick counts (same time each day) and
wear a very firm abdominal binder to help align fetus with pelvis and assist
decent of fetal head into pelvis, possibly decreasing likelihood of cord
accident.

my abdominal muscles aren't what they used to be. As a muscle, my uterus
has been quite stretched. My midwife and doctor say they have good luck
using and abdominal binder on their moms who have had lots of babies. They
said often times the labors of these moms are long and irregular. The reason
being that the baby has a lot more room to slosh around because the uterus
is a little floppy and so are the abdominal muscles. The baby can often
times get into an odd position and present itself incorrectly. They use an
abdominal binder late in the pregnancy and during labor to keep the baby in
a good position.

Hope that it's helpful.

Cheers
Brenda
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RE: [ozmidwifery] short doula/labour support courses...

[Ken Ward]

If her friend is birthing at a hospital I would suggest she attends classes
with her friend.  Personally I don't think formal classes are necessary,
just tune into inner self and feel comfortable with whatever is happening.
  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Tania Smallwood
  Sent: Saturday, 20 January 2007 9:26 AM
  To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] short doula/labour support courses...




  I have a friend who is not a midwife, and she has been asked to be the
labour support person at a close friend’s birth.  She has birthed three
times herself, twice at home, and is a lovely gentle, practical woman, who I
’m sure will be perfect for the job.  She feels that she’d like to have some
kind of ‘formal’ training, even if it’s just a workshop, and I’m wondering
if there is anything like that available here in Australia.  She’d be fine
with something online or via correspondence, but doesn’t really need to do
the full doula course.  I’ve suggested she attends some of the fine active
birth workshops here in Adelaide that are run by the local yoga centres, and
that appealed too.  Any other ideas?



  Thanks



  Tania





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6:47 PM

RE: [ozmidwifery] Fw: Support people in birthing suites

[Ken Ward]

Me too.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Cheryl LHK
Sent: Friday, 12 January 2007 4:48 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Fw: Support people in birthing suites


We are a small rural hospital - approx 130-150 births in the year - and over
the last 8 yrs of very part-time work (between having 3 children) we have
had siblings, toddlers, parents, friends, in-laws, neighbours and although
most women have 1-2 people by choice, I have seen 4+ wandering in and out of
the room.  If it's an em LUSCS generally the hubby comes into the OT (his
choice) but I have had a few times where when I asked very nicely that the
dr's where happy for 2 support people (generally mum and hubby) sit up the
head of the bed with the woman.  This is at 3am in the morning!  I don't do
days...

I have absolutely no idea if we have a policy, I work on the thinking if the
woman is happy, then I'm happy.  Have had very few incidences of where the
support person wasn't that supportive and busy bullying me and the woman, I
showed them where the coffee machine was and put the lady in the shower.

Cheryl


From: Lisa Gierke [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Fw: Support people in birthing suites
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 14:14:53 +1000




What are peoples thoughts on limiting or not limiting the number of support
people who come into be with a woman in labor in hospital? What is your
hospital policy about thisare children welcome? Am  interested in what
others experiences and policies are.
Lisa

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RE: [ozmidwifery] Strep B

[Ken Ward]

I donot believe it's necessary. I have never been tested and have four
babies.  The thing is, you can be negative at the time of the test, and
positive two days later. The swab does not detect ALL positive cases.  As
you are allergic to AB's you can't have them anyway, and I would be
reluctant to let my baby have them without some signs of infection.
  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of nunyara
  Sent: Tuesday, 9 January 2007 12:49 PM
  To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] Strep B


  Hi all,



  I know info on this topic has been posted before but I deleted it all -
silly me as I now wish to ask some questions which have probably already
been covered.



  I am 34 weeks pregnant and was not going to have the STREP B test but I
have done some further research and it suggests that all women SHOULD be
tested but antibiotics used during labour for a positive result may not be
the way to go.



  To all the midwife's on this forum: is it necessary for me to have this
test? Is it in my and my babies best interest to do this?



  If I tested positive (which I didn't with my first child, in fact I don't
even remember having the test) is the intravenous antibiotic really
necessary? I do not want this as I plan to have a water birth and I am also
highly allergic to penicillan and other forms of backup antibiotics.



  I will raise this at my midwife appointment I am due for this week I would
just like some opinions.



  Kind Regards

  Jassy

RE: [ozmidwifery] synto AFTER 3rd stage?

[Ken Ward]

NO
  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Kristin Beckedahl
  Sent: Sunday, 24 December 2006 12:48 PM
  To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] synto AFTER 3rd stage?


  Hi all,

  A woman I will be supporting for her first birth had a checkup y'day where
she discussed her birth plan with the midwife.  MW was very impressed and
supportive overall, yet was concerned about her decision for a natural 3rd
stage. She has stated on her birth plan that she would prefer to take the
wait and see approach and only have it if there was 'excessive' bleeding.
The MW was happy to negiotiate this with her and suggested she have it not
at birth, but after the placenta has come away.

  Would she really need it at this stageif her loss was minimal...?

  Any insights would be appreciated thanks!

  Kristin





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RE: [ozmidwifery] Amamanta dolls

[Ken Ward]

No, it takes a great deal to be a Daddy, and not all fathers are one. I'm
not a particularly good mummy. I guess I meant that one needs the
ingredients from two sources,

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, 12 December 2006 8:37 AM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Amamanta dolls


hi there,

actually, there is no daddy in my family. there is sperm from a donor (and
i hope you are not suggesting that it is sperm that makes someone a
'father'), but there is not, and will be not, a 'daddy'.

kristi

On Mon, December 11, 2006 1:29 am, Ken Ward wrote:
 No, but to get a baby you do need a mummy and a daddy, even if he is only
 a syringe or turkey baster. -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Kristi Kemp
 Sent: Monday, 11 December 2006 5:40 AM
 To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
 Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Amamanta dolls



 Hi there,




 I'm a midwifery student from Canada, and I was very excited to learn
 about the Amamanta dolls a few months ago. Not to take away from their
 excellence...but I think it is important to note that only heterosexual
 families are sold as families, which automatically excludes my family.
 Yes,
 I could buy separate mommy dolls and separate kid dolls - but given the
 thoughtful attention paid to having anatomically correct dolls from a
 number of cultures...this is a glaring exclusion. Anyway, just a little
 heads up that although these dolls are anatomically correct (which is
 wonderful!), they are not entirely culturally or socially sensitive...



 Kristi








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RE: [ozmidwifery] Amamanta dolls

[Ken Ward]

No, but to get a baby you do need a mummy and a daddy, even if he is only a
syringe or turkey baster.
  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Kristi Kemp
  Sent: Monday, 11 December 2006 5:40 AM
  To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
  Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Amamanta dolls


  Hi there,



  I'm a midwifery student from Canada, and I was very excited to learn about
the Amamanta dolls a few months ago. Not to take away from their
excellence...but I think it is important to note that only heterosexual
families are sold as families, which automatically excludes my family. Yes,
I could buy separate mommy dolls and separate kid dolls - but given the
thoughtful attention paid to having anatomically correct dolls from a number
of cultures...this is a glaring exclusion. Anyway, just a little heads up
that although these dolls are anatomically correct (which is wonderful!),
they are not entirely culturally or socially sensitive...



  Kristi

RE: [ozmidwifery] deep vein thrombosis in pregnancy and birth

[Ken Ward]

NO
  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jenny Turnbull
  Sent: Wednesday, 6 December 2006 6:04 PM
  To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] deep vein thrombosis in pregnancy and birth


  so is an induction really necessary?  I think that is her main concern.
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 5:32 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] deep vein thrombosis in pregnancy and birth


In my experience woemn just stop taking the anticoagulants at around 36
weeks.
  - Original Message -
  From: Jenny Turnbull
  To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
  Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 4:36 PM
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] deep vein thrombosis in pregnancy and birth


  A lady has approached me with the following question.  Her baby is due
at the end of January.

 Hello, hoping I could get some opinions on the following matter.

I had a deep vein thrombosis, in my calf at 12 weeks of pregnancy
and have been taking Clexane since then.  I am due late Jan 2007
My obsterician has flagged the idea of an induction (somewhere
around 38 week mark) so that I can time stopping the medication with the
birth.  Her concern is I will bleed too much otherwise.

I would like some help on the following:
what would be some good questions to ask the specialist to help
weigh up my options for birth eg to induce or not and other related matters
eg relative
risks
Are you aware of mothers that have given birth whilst taking Clexane
and what the outcomes have been.

Thanks for your responses, I will forward them on
Jenny


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RE: [ozmidwifery] Do Doulas need insurance?

[Ken Ward]

I 
would be cautious of a couple asking about insurance. Aren't they prepared to be 
responsible for their decisions, do they not understand a doulas 
role?

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of 
  joSent: Sunday, 22 October 2006 10:50 AMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Do Doulas 
  need insurance?
  
  Hi 
  Kristin,
  
  Ive been working as 
  a doula for 5 years now. Doulas are not medically trained and do not give 
  advise but rather present a list of options so that the birthing woman can 
  make a truly informed decision herself, therefore insurance is not necessary. 
  The doulas role is to physically and emotionally support the birthing woman 
  and her family. In terms of advocating, it is always ideal for the woman to 
  advocate for herself. So if things are suggested that are against her wishes, 
  posing the question back to the woman or reminding her of what is written on 
  her birth plan  I cant see that any of this would require 
  insurance.
  
  Warn 
  regards
  Jo 
  Hunter
  
  
  
  
  
  From: 
  owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
  [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Kristin 
  BeckedahlSent: Sunday, 22 
  October 2006 10:29 AMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] Do Doulas need 
  insurance?
  
  
  I 
  have been asked this by a couple who would like me to be their doula at their 
  birth.
  I 
  said that I consider myself as 'birth support' and could be a friend, relative 
  or even a midwife off duty I suppose...?
  Does anyone know anymore about 
  insurance and doulas? As a Naturopath, I have Medical Malpractise  
  Public/Products liability - which also covers me for my CBE 
  work.
  Kristin 
  
  
  
  
  
  
  Sell ANYTHING for $10 or less at tradingpost.com.au 
  -- This mailing list is sponsored by 
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unsubscribe.

RE: [ozmidwifery] risks for birth...

[Ken Ward]

Note 
he said "...people try and interfere TOO MUCH." not just interfere. I 
think you'll find vets are getting as interfering as doctors. 


  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Honey 
  AcharyaSent: Thursday, 19 October 2006 7:18 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] risks for 
  birth...
  Maybe we should start hiring Vets rather than 
  Obstetricians as seems to be the norm in our culture right now ;)
  LOL at the thougth of telling them that you will 
  be hiring your vet as your caregiver when booking in at the 
  hospital.
  
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Tania 
Smallwood 
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 

Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 7:11 
PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] risks for 
birth...



My kids are watching the ABC pet 
show tonight…Question – “so, what’s the greatest risk when your pet is 
giving birth?”

Straight from the spunky vet’s 
mouth…”THE THING THAT PUTS YOUR PET AT THE GREATEST RISK IS THAT PEOPLE TRY 
AND INTERFERE TOO MUCH” 

Sigh…and we can’t see that 
fantastic wood for those dastardly trees…

Tania
x
--No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by 
AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.5/483 - 
Release Date: 18/10/2006

RE: [ozmidwifery] We can make a difference (long)

[Ken Ward]

Yep, anything for a couple of hours sleep, and reassurance bub has had
something. People are still stuck in the 4/24 feeds even though 20 years ago
we were told to feed on demand.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jo Watson
Sent: Tuesday, 17 October 2006 11:01 AM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] We can make a difference (long)



On 17/10/2006, at 8:45 AM, Heartlogic wrote:



 Many (if not all) words from health professionals are hypnotic, and
 wire their way into a woman's mind and experience.


While I agree with this in relation to women and birth, I have to (in
most cases) disagree with this in regards to breastfeeding advice and
support.  MOST of the women I look after postnatally just don't
listen or don't believe the advice they recieve - they don't trust
their bodies.  It's like the birth experience has been owned by
someone else, and now they are being asked to trust their body, and
that baby knows what he's doing, wanting to be on the breast every
hour, for example to get the milk in - and they just don't believe
it.No amount of education seems to make much difference, sadly.
Do these women get sick of us telling them that it's normal?  Would
they be happier if we said, well actually, you don't have enough
milk, so we'll need to intervene and give formula?

Just musing :)

Jo

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RE: [ozmidwifery] blood gasses and other policies

[Ken Ward]

I hope 
she wrote to the CEO of the hospital. She should make it VERY clear this 
time, in writing and I would put a big sign on the baby's cot. Is she 
aware that she could take legal action? The threat is usually enough. 
Women and midwives must take a stand because so many of the older midwives, and 
women still think it's ok to give a baby formula. On the other hand, a lot of 
mum's insist on comps even though the midwives discuss it stressing the 
importance of NOT giving formula.

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of 
  nunyaraSent: Monday, 16 October 2006 6:12 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] blood 
  gasses and other policies
  
  Hi 
  Barb
  
  I had a client just 
  last week for a pregnancy massage. She is 31 weeks and this is her 
  second child. She breasted her first bub until she was about 18 months 
  old. However, she is TERRIFIED  not about the birth  but about her new 
  baby being given formula whilst it is in hospital. Apparently, this 
  occurred with her first baby but without her knowledge and consent. At 
  the time, she was absolutely furious that this had occurred because she had 
  let everyone know how very keen she was to breastfeed. When she asked 
  why this happened, she was given a variety of different reasons ranging from 
  baby was hungry to a mere shrug of the shoulders. She spoke to her obs 
  about it and he did not seem to be concerned about all the fuss. She 
  couldnt understand why no-one seemed to think it was an issue because it was 
   for her. In fact, she got really angry while talking about it during 
  the massage and then she started crying  still upset after almost 3 
  years!!!
  
  Ramona 
  Lane
  Nunyara 
  Healing
  
  
  
  
  
  From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
  [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Barbara Glare  Chris 
  BrightSent: Sunday, 15 
  October 2006 9:43 AMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] blood gasses and 
  other policies
  
  
  HI,
  
  
  
  Interesting conversation about 
  blood gasses.I frequently get reports from mothers and health 
  professionals that they gave birth in a Baby friendly hospital, or a hospital 
  with clear policies on breastfeeding, but that babies are given infant formula 
  often without their parents consent, or not with their parents INFORMED 
  consent. This always intrigues me greatly. There seem to be no 
  repercussions for staff who go against breastfeeding policies. Reasons I 
  have heard for staff giving babies formula when I've asked midwives why they 
  gave a baby formula include "the other midwife told me the baby was hungry", 
  we didn't want to disturb the mother etc. Mothers tell me they were told that 
  staff didn't want to wake/disturb the mother - they knew she was tired. 
  Told she had no milk. Told the baby was hungry and needed 
  something.And, my personal favourite, "it's OK, at this hospital we give 
  babies the formula that is closest to human milk" Rarely are they told 
  WHY the midwife thinks these things.These are babieswho are well, 
  don't even start me on babies in the nursery where parent's rights seem to go 
  right out the window.Some parents I have spoken to are very upset and 
  angry. I wonder why breastfeeding policy is in a *different* category in 
  most hospitals? Do others find this?
  
  
  
  Barb

RE: [ozmidwifery] Oblique presentation?

[Ken Ward]

Good 
idea. Some good contractions will see that bub's head down in the pelvis.[proper 
ably]. 

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Honey 
  AcharyaSent: Thursday, 12 October 2006 2:57 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] Oblique 
  presentation?
  Any suggestions for a woman who is 39 weeks 
  pregnant just had doctors appointment where she was told baby is now not OP 
  but oblique (head on right side) and he suggested that they admit her to 
  hospital right away (worried about cord prolapse) and wait and look at 
  inducing her.
  She declined that offer and said she would go 
  away and give it some more time.
  

RE: [ozmidwifery] New Inventors birth seat

[Ken Ward]

I find 
that a lot of dads want to see and/or help to catch baby. Mums will often ask 
him if he can see anything. 

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Mike  
  Lindsay KennedySent: Monday, 9 October 2006 10:10 AMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] New 
  Inventors birth seatI understand that the back comes off 
  so that the 'dad' (partner, support person) can cradle the woman the same way 
  as a traditional birth chair.
  On 10/7/06, Andrea 
  Robertson [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
  Hi,Only 
problems with this birth chair arethat it eliminates the 
needfor a support person behind the woman (poor dad misses out), and 
alsofixes the woman in a static position. Not easy for her to move 
about, wriggle, rock back and forth etc if she wants to. Convenient for 
theaccoucher as the women is in a still positionThis birth 
stool has been available for some time. Without the backrest, however 
(which is new) the woman tends to tilt her pelvis forward, and can 
easily end up in an almost horizontal position,because the seat on the 
stool slopes backwards.The backrest putsthe woman's pelvis 
into a forward tilt position, which is a morenatural "drive" angle, thus 
overcoming a design problem (as I see it) with the basic 
stool.With traditional birth stools, the father usually sits behind 
thewoman and can help her into a standing position between 
contractions,to assist with maintaining circulation, which is important 
for avoiding perineal oedema. It also gives him close contact with 
herand an important role in the whole process. I can't imagine a 
womangetting up and down easily from this particular birth stool with 
itsbackrest in place. The invention didn't win the award on the 
night.AndreaAt 10:53 AM 7/10/2006, you 
wrote:Did anyone else manage to catch this on Wednesday 
night - I onlymanaged to get the info from their website after the 
event, but its looks wonderful!!!http://www.abc.net.au/newinventors/txt/s1754147.htm 
http://www.abc.net.au/newinventors/txt/s1754147.htm(you can play 
the video too)What a fanastic invention - apparently quite 
'cheap' too.. Not sureif she won the nights award - but cant wait 
for the day when these are standards in hospitals and universities 
for mid training...Kristin-- This 
mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit tosubscribe or 
unsubscribe.--This mailing list is sponsored by ACE 
Graphics.Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au 
to subscribe or unsubscribe.-- 
  My photos online @ http://community.webshots.com/user/mike1962nzMy 
  Group online @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PSP_for_Photographers 
  New Photo site@Mike - http://mikelinz.dotphoto.comLindsay 
  - Http://likeminz.dotphoto.com"Life 
  is a sexually transmitted condition with 100% mortality and birth is as 
  safe as it gets." Unknown 

[ozmidwifery] RE:

[Ken Ward]

Some 
of the best people I have worked with have been div2's. Their knowledge and 
understanding put some of the 'midwives' to shame. Just how much nursing care 
does a newborn need? Many LC's are not midwives, as are childbirth 
educators. Maybe we should be assisting these people to be woman wise, and 
not judge them on qualifications. 

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Ganesha 
  RosatSent: Thursday, 28 September 2006 8:33 AMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: 
  
  Hi all u wonderful 
  women!
  
  Just a quick posting in line with 
  the current debate about maternity services within country areas and who 
  provides services. 
  
  The hospital I am currently 
  working in has decided to address our midwife shortage but training division 
  two nurses to work in the maternity department.
  These nurses have 3 days of 
  theory, one day of orientation in óbstetric’ and five days of clinical 
  experience. 
  On completion of their modules 
  these girls will be able to:
   
  Assist in the provision of antenatal nursing care to the 
  client
   
  Assist in the provision of nursing care to the healthy newborn 
  baby
   
  Discuss the establishment and maintenance of 
  breastfeeding
   
  Assist in the evaluation of key stage of growth and development of the 
  baby
   
  Assist in the provision of postnatal nursing care to the 
  woman
  
  This again indicates to me the 
  lack of understanding of the needs of women (not clients). Instead of the 
  hospital supporting midwives and creating a working environment that 
  encourages new midwives to come to the area, they find quick fixes that only 
  further add to the fragmentation of care.
  
  Anyway what do u all think? And is 
  this happening anywhere else?
  
  Cheers 
  Ganesha
   
  
  
  

RE: [ozmidwifery] Measles question

[Ken Ward]

As 
Megan says, we all come in contact with things everyday. I'd take the chance, 
with or without my kids being immunized

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Kelly @ 
  BellyBellySent: Monday, 28 August 2006 6:20 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Measles 
  question
  
  LOL feel free 
  J I just read that 
  even if you are immune to it you can still carry it, so I was moreso worried 
  about those my children spend time with. 
  
  Best 
  Regards,Kelly 
  ZanteyCreator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions 
  From Conception to ParenthoodBellyBelly Birth 
  Support - 
  http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support
  
  
  
  
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Megan  
  LarrySent: Monday, 28 August 
  2006 6:03 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Measles 
  question
  
  Can I be a smarty 
  pants and ask if your childen are vaccinated why are you 
  worried?
  
  Many children's 
  illness' can have a red rash associated with it, makes it very hard to really 
  know what they have, unless a blood test is done to 
  confirm.
  
  Of course even 
  vaccination isn't 100% effective, so if you are absolutely concerned, 
  cancel.
  
  Its harder to decide 
  when you have been given a choice, we come in contact with all sorts of things 
  when out and about all the time and have no idea.
  
  Good luck 
  
  
  Megan
  
  
  
  
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kelly @ 
  BellyBellySent: Monday, 28 
  August 2006 5:24 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] Measles 
  question
  Sorry, off topic but 
  need some advice asap -
  
  A babysitter is 
  coming for half the day tomorrow but just called and said the child she looked 
  after today looks like it *may* 
  have measles. Should I cancel her coming tomorrow or would it be 
  ok? My kids are vaccinated. 
  Thanks in advance.
  Best Regards,Kelly ZanteyCreator, 
  BellyBelly.com.au 
  Gentle 
  Solutions From Conception to ParenthoodBellyBelly Birth 
  Support - 
  http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support
  

RE: [ozmidwifery] Fwd: Help end the deception

[Ken Ward]

Okay, so it's ok for the government to fund thousands of abortions each year
and there to be very many pro-abortionist counselling, but there must be no
pro-choice views voiced. Get yourself into some of the internet sites on
abortion and read stories from BOTH sides. There are very many women out
there who do regret their decision.  I donot want to discuss this further.
We are all entitled to our views.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, 20 August 2006 9:29 AM
To: OZ Midwifery list
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Fwd: Help end the deception



Hi everyone on the list,
I just recieved this today, and thought some of you might be interested
signing
it. No offense is intended to anyone else. Regards, Astra.



- Forwarded message from [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -
Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 15:43:14 +1000
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Help end the deception
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Hi,


I’ve just taken part in a national campaign to help stop the deception of
Australian women.



http://www.getup.org.au/campaign/StopDeceivingWomen




Right now there are no laws to stop anti-choice activists from setting up
counselling services that actively mislead women - telling them that
abortion
increases the risk of breast cancer, infertility and mental illness. These
groups also deceive women in their advertising, posing as unbiased advisors.



What is worse - the Australian government is funding some of these
organisations, providing $300,000 to the Australian Federation of Pregnancy
Support Services (formerly the Australian Federation of Pro Life Pregnancy
Support Services) last year.


There is now a Senate inquiry into this issue, and they need to hear what
Australians think about this! Can you add your name to a petition today?



http://www.getup.org.au/campaign/StopDeceivingWomen



Come-on



Thanks for being a part of this important campaign!



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RE: [ozmidwifery] midiwfe in Vic

[Ken Ward]

We have several home birth midwives, all on the internet

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Belinda Maier
Sent: Tuesday, 22 August 2006 12:07 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: [ozmidwifery] midiwfe in Vic


I have a client in midwifery group practice who would like to birth in 
Melb with her family, she is over 34 weeks so i am assuming she wont get 
into birth centers?? She is close to Monash, is there anyone who could 
talk to her regarding her options there??
Belinda SA
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RE: [ozmidwifery] re grief and childrens books

[Ken Ward]

I have 
a lovely little book on life times. It talks about all creatures from 
butterflies to people. That no matter how long or short life is to celebrated 
and death comes to all, not to be scared of, but a natural part of 
life.

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of cath 
  nolanSent: Tuesday, 15 August 2006 8:37 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] re grief and 
  childrens books
  I used to read a book to my kids called 
  "sophie"by mem fox I think. It was a lovely gentle book about a special 
  grandfather dying and provoked lots of discussion in our house with my three 
  girls about dying. It speaks from a cycle of life perspective with birth 
  showing hope and new life.Unfortunately a subject we have had to deal with 
  quite a bit in the past few years. I found it very helpful. Cath.
  
  t

RE: [ozmidwifery] vaginal breech

[Ken Ward]

They 
are trying to avoid the baby getting stuck i.e. the head unable to pass through. 
There is also a risk of damage to the internal organs,such as liver and kidneys, 
because people tend to tug on the babies in an effort to get them out. There is 
a risk of the cord becoming compressed, cutting off oxygen to the baby causing 
brain damage and/or death. There's oodles of reasons, but the main one is 
fear of something happening and the doctor being sued. The nicest breech 
birth I have seen was with the mum kneeling over the beanbag and baby just 
slipped out all on his own. Originally only primips were routinely 
C/S. Because skills have been lost, and it's easier for the docs they tend 
to caesar all breeches, even if the mum has had several babies. It is a great 
pity.

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Kristin 
  BeckedahlSent: Monday, 14 August 2006 2:15 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] vaginal 
  breech
  
  Hi all,
  Why are breech (sometimes) routinely CS'd. What risks are they 
  actually trying to avoid for the baby?
  Kristin
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RE: [ozmidwifery] Question of the week.

[Ken Ward]

Pretty 
much similar.

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Mary 
  MurphySent: Friday, 4 August 2006 6:37 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Question 
  of the week. 
  
  Would this be any 
  different to a gastrochesis, where loops of bowel are hanging out of the 
  abdominal cavity. A clients baby was born this week with quite a lot of 
  bowel protruding. Other than the need for sterility, it was a normal 
  birth. MM 
  
  
  
  
  
  From: 
  owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
  [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] 
  On Behalf Of Ken 
  WardSent: Friday, 4 August 
  2006 2:27 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Question of 
  the week. 
  
  
  I have seen large and 
  small spina bifida's birthed normally. It is important to keep the membrane 
  intact to prevent infection. These babies are usually operated on very 
  quickly.
  
-Original 
Message-From: 
owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
[mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au]On Behalf Of Mary MurphySent: Thursday, 3 August 2006 10:03 
PMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] Question of the 
week. 
An interesting question from 
Midwifery Today E News. I am 21 weeks pregnant with my third 
child, which has been diagnosed with spina bifida. This is quite a shock 
since my other two children were homebirths and the specialists said I would 
require a c-section. I understand the need to deliver in a hospital where 
the baby can receive immediate medical treatment soon after birth, but does 
anyone know if there is any evidence that c-section is better than vaginal 
birth when delivering a child with spina bifida? 

RE: [ozmidwifery] Question of the week.

[Ken Ward]

I have 
seen large and small spina bifida's birthed normally. It is important to keep 
the membrane intact to prevent infection. These babies are usually operated on 
very quickly.

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Mary 
  MurphySent: Thursday, 3 August 2006 10:03 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] Question of 
  the week. 
  
  An interesting question from 
  Midwifery Today E News. I am 21 weeks pregnant with my third 
  child, which has been diagnosed with spina bifida. This is quite a shock since 
  my other two children were homebirths and the specialists said I would require 
  a c-section. I understand the need to deliver in a hospital where the baby can 
  receive immediate medical treatment soon after birth, but does anyone know if 
  there is any evidence that c-section is better than vaginal birth when 
  delivering a child with spina bifida? 
  
  

RE: [ozmidwifery] Fetal monitoring in second stage

[Ken Ward]

It 
depends. I try and monitor after each contraction, but if I can't, and there's 
been no cause for worry, I don't insist. 

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Andrea 
  BilcliffSent: Wednesday, 2 August 2006 2:18 PMTo: 
  OzmidwiferySubject: [ozmidwifery] Fetal monitoring in second 
  stage
  Hello,I'm an independent midwife attending homebirths in the 
  Melbourne area and beyond. Some of my colleagues  I have been having 
  discussions about fetal monitoring in second stage at homebirths. There seems 
  to be varied practice from listening after every contraction to listening less 
  frequently.I was wondering if any other midwives would be willing to 
  share their practice with us, on or off list. Do you have evidence which you 
  base this decision on or is it a reflection of your midwifery education / 
  previous hospital practice?For the women who have had homebirths, how 
  often did your midwife listen to the baby's heartbeat? Was frequent monitoring 
  a reassurance or disturbance in your labour?Anything that anyone is 
  willing to share with us will be most gratefully received, and kept 
  confidential if desired.Thanks,
  
  Andrea Bilcliff

[ozmidwifery] breastfeeding and obesity

[Ken Ward]

I have a friend, B/F child till 3 yrs. Lovely, normal weight.  Then started
to gain, and now at 12-13 yrs is a size 18. Am wondering what she was
getting from the breast milk that she is not getting from her food. I don't
think she overeats, (they live 8 hrs away and I don't see them that often).
Mum's sort of normal overweight=. Dad's ok and so is older sister.  I feel
she's missing some enzyme or something that was being supplied by the B/M..
Any ideas?

Ken  Maureen Ward
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

attachment: winmail.dat

RE: [ozmidwifery] Blood cells and placenta?!

[Ken Ward]

. In 
mid training days the belief was that placental blood transfusion following 
birth would result in increased red blood cells in the baby thereby increasing 
jaundice levels. There was also concern if the baby was above the placenta 
blood would drain from the baby back into it. 

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Kelly @ 
  BellyBellySent: Tuesday, 25 July 2006 5:48 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] Blood cells 
  and placenta?!
  
  Has 
  anyone ever heard of this?
  
  My 
  midwife ended up saying as long as the baby is above the placenta; it's ok to 
  let it stop pulsing naturally before clamping it. She said something about too 
  many red (or white!) blood cells entering bubs if bub was below the 
  placenta?
  Best Regards,Kelly ZanteyCreator, 
  BellyBelly.com.au 
  Gentle 
  Solutions From Conception to ParenthoodBellyBelly Birth 
  Support - 
  http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support
  

RE: [ozmidwifery] Blood cells and placenta?!

[Ken Ward]

Loved 
your reply, Dianne, and my thoughts exactly. Nature has designed us to survive, 
so why do we keep on interfering? It's the same with the vit 
K. Maureen

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Kelly @ 
  BellyBellySent: Tuesday, 25 July 2006 5:48 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] Blood cells 
  and placenta?!
  
  Has 
  anyone ever heard of this?
  
  My 
  midwife ended up saying as long as the baby is above the placenta; it's ok to 
  let it stop pulsing naturally before clamping it. She said something about too 
  many red (or white!) blood cells entering bubs if bub was below the 
  placenta?
  Best Regards,Kelly ZanteyCreator, 
  BellyBelly.com.au 
  Gentle 
  Solutions From Conception to ParenthoodBellyBelly Birth 
  Support - 
  http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support
  

[ozmidwifery] Anti-natal

[Ken Ward]

I do so like the spelling in the article.  Some classes are anti natal, not
antenatal. Maureen
Ken  Maureen Ward
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

attachment: winmail.dat

RE: [ozmidwifery] Cord Blood Donation

[Ken Ward]

I also have done cord blood collection after a physiological third stage.
And they have also been done after C/S.  Maureen

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Belinda Maier
Sent: Wednesday, 5 July 2006 6:11 AM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Cord Blood Donation


My experience with mothers doing this was not of early cord clamping but
of physiological 3rd stage. We would have to wait for the lab person to
come so the cord was clamped and cut when they got there and had stopped
pulsating. The blood obviously does not flow (for the collection) as
quick but unless a woman wanted a lotus birth,  for retrieving cord
blood cells it is the best of both worlds. Obviously little can be done
if the placenta simply births. The aim is to get the blood from the
placenta not the baby. Once the baby gets what it needs and the cord
stops beating then to my mind it is like donating breast milk;
beautiful, rich; life giving and invaluable to the recipient.
The concept of the blood belonging to the baby it interests me. i agree
absolutely in the case of cord clamping before the cord has stopped
pulsating. But even if we bury the placenta we are returning it to the
earth, if we use placenta/woman/baby blood and use it on a person as we
all die then eventually it will still be returned to the earth.

Belinda




Stephen  Felicity wrote:
 I wouldn't contribute my baby's cord blood because that blood belongs
 to my baby, and that's where it's going, every last drop until it
 stops by itself and the placenta comes away naturally.  Cord blood
 donation requires early cord clamping which for reasons I probably
 don't have to explain to those on this list is not something I would
 subject my child to.  To my knowledge, cord blood is the best locale
 of stem cells, but it's not the ONLY one; there are other methods of
 obtaining them.  So I can't see any good reason to prematurely
 amputate my child from their life source at birth (carrying all the
 risks to their health and wellbeing that come with this practice) and
 give their cord blood to someone else for their possible health and
 wellbeing; it doesn't seem logical to me as a Mother.

 - Original Message - From: brendamanning
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
 Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 12:49 PM
 Subject: [ozmidwifery] Cord Blood Donation


 I have been asked this  would be very interested to hear others
 views. I am fairly sure she means CB donation, not storage of blood
 for later use for her children.

 I've been meaning to ask you for a while about cord blood donation
 and in
 particular why people don't seem to do it. I picked up a brochure from
 the
 hospital and read it.  I think I want to do it since it will otherwise
 just
 end up in the bin but am just wondering whether others know more about it
 and are therefore opting not to do it.  Can you tell me what the cons of
 doing it are or the possible controversial issues.

 With kind regards
 Brenda Manning
 www.themidwife.com.au

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RE: [ozmidwifery] Manual rotation

[Ken Ward]

One really shouldn't try and do a manual rotation before full dilation. I'm
surprised the woman agreed, especially the second time, it must have been
very painful. One doesn't usually push back the last cm. One may try and
slip an anterior lip over. Seems pretty dodgy to me. I saw a midwife push on
the fundus with one hand while pulling on the baby's head with the other,
(her knuckles were going white) to speed up a birth. After all, it was
getting on for knock-off time.   Maureen

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, 28 June 2006 10:12 AM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Manual rotation



Quoting Susan Cudlipp [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 Did this incident cause some adverse outcomes?

 Regards, Sue



Thanks for everyone's reply's.. Yes, this particular time, the outcome was
forceps and a third degree tear which obviously not a direct result of the
manouvre, but from the maternal exhaustion which ensued. In this case I
think,
it wasn't just the procedure, but the reasons for, and manner in which it
was
done. The midwife suggested it to the woman as a means of speeding up her
labour (even though she was nine cm and had only been in the hospital for
two
hours!!), and had already performed an ARM for the same reason. She
suggested
that she could push the cervix back that last cm and rotate the baby, to
save
the baby doing so, and thereby reducing the overall time of the labour!! I
couldn't believe what I was hearing! The woman agreed (???!!!) and this went
ahead, with the woman instructed to push afterwards as she was apparantly
now
10 cms. When no head appeared in due time, the woman was checked again and
it
was discovered that the cervix had gone back to 9cm.(suprise suprise) This
scenario was repeated several times, with the woman encouraged to actively
push
in between. She eventually was so exhausted that the same midwife determined
that forceps would be required... etc etc.Why not leave well enough alone in
the first place? Anyway, the question I really wanted answered was that of
safety. Obviously this was not a good illustration of appropriate of
necessary
use of this kind of technique, but my dilemma is that I have been told on
the
one hand that this kind of thing is dangerous and unnecessary, and then I
read
about it in Mayes, and several of you have replied that it is something you
would do on occasion. I guess this is something I need to look into further.
Thanks for all your help, regards, Astra.


   - Original Message -
   From: Astra Joynt
   To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
   Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 6:31 PM
   Subject: [ozmidwifery] Manual rotation


   Hi eveyone, I am a first year Bmid student who has recently joined the
 list, and have been getting a lot out of reading the posts on various
 subjects. Now I'm wanting to ask advice on an issue that I have been
trying
 to resolve since early on in my clinical experience. Without going into
the
 whole story, I witnessed a digital rotation, or manual rotation of the
baby
 of a woman in late first stage of labour, and a cascade of issues
followed.
 In debriefing with my lecturers at uni, I was told this is not good or
safe
 practice at any time. I then witnessed the same midwife perform this
 procedure again a few weeks later. Debriefing with a clinical educater, I
was
 told it is an 'old skill', and certain very experienced midwives still
 practice it. Then my clinical supervisor refuted this and said it is
 dangerous and has no place in midwifery practice.This is a very brief
summary
 of these conversations, but I hope you get the gist. Anyway, I was happy
with
 this, until I read in Mayes Midwifery the other day that this procedure
can
 be used to help turn a posterior baby!! I am completely confused! Safe, or
 not? Evidence based, or not? I would really appreciate any light cast on
this
 subject... and just in case no one knows what I mean by digital rotation
(if
 this is not the common term for it) It is the midwife using her fingers
 internally to sort of hook the baby's head (cervix fully dilated I guess,
or
 close to it) and turn it into a more optimal position, using her own
strength
 and accompanied by the woman actively pushing. I just want to also say
that I
 know this is not something that should be occuring in any normal
 straightforward birth, but what other information or experience to you
have,
warm
regards,
 Astra


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19/06/2006




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RE: [ozmidwifery] Birth As A Bowel Movement

[Ken Ward]

Have 
read similar to do with cats birthing. 

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Natalie 
  DashSent: Monday, 26 June 2006 9:23 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] Birth As A 
  Bowel Movement
  I had to laugh at this... it's so 
  true!!!
  Enjoy
  Natalie
  
  BIRTH AS A BOWEL 
  MOVEMENTImagine if you will, that about a hundred years 
  ago, people began having great difficulties having bowel movements (BM for 
  short). It al came about because of some very unhealthy lifestyles. People 
  weren't eating correctly because they were desperately trying to be thin and 
  beautiful. They had malnutrition and took a lot of pills and other drugs to 
  help them become and stay thin. People were so concerned with looking good 
  that they put their health aside to get there. As a result of this 
  lifestyle, many people had a terrible time having BMs. Some people even died. 
  Something had to be done to save these folks. So instead of changing their 
  lifestyles, people flocked to the doctors to have their problem fixed. The 
  problem became so prevalent that people became fearful of having BMs. Everyone 
  dreaded going to the bathroom because of all the horror stories of pain and 
  death. This normal, natural bodily function was labeled dangerous and 
  hazardous and needed to be monitored and controlled to save lives. 
  Over time, it became the "norm" to go the hospital whenever someone 
  had to have a BM so that doctors could monitor the process and intervene if 
  they needed to. This continued through the years and is still practiced today. 
  An onslaught of new life-saving technology and machinery was invented for us 
  in aiding people to have a BM. It has become such a common practice to go to 
  the hospital to have a BM that people have become uninformed. They don't trust 
  their own bodies to have a BM on their own. People are scared to have a BM 
  that having one anywhere besides a hospital is considered irresponsible, 
  dangerous and risky. Even though the old, unhealthy lifestyles, which caused 
  the problem in the first place are no longer practiced, having BMs is no 
  longer considered a normal event. Even the healthiest of people go to the 
  hospital to have BMs out of fear that something might happen. The go "just in 
  case". So, you have to have a BM and even though you are a healthy man 
  and having a BM is a normal, natural physiological function that your body was 
  designed to do, we go to the hospital. We grab the hospital bag and head out 
  the door in a hurry. During the car ride you get very tense because the cramps 
  are coming on strong and you can't get comfortable. You try breathing through 
  them but this only helps a little with all the stop and go traffic and bumps 
  in the road. Not to mention that you just wish you could be at home and have 
  privacy. Upon arrival at the hospital, you are wheeled up to a room and 
  instructed to put on a gown with nothing else on (it has a large opening in 
  the back which will show you rear end if you get up and walk anywhere). You 
  are told to lie down so that a nurse can examine you. Then a strange female 
  nurse comes in and explains that she is going to have to insert 2 fingers into 
  your rectum to check the progress of your feces. You obviously feel humiliated 
  because someone you don't know has just touched a very private and personal 
  part of you. Then the nurse straps a monitor to your belly to measure 
  the severity of your cramps and stick an iv in your arm. This is very 
  distracting and makes the pain of the cramps even worse. Soon, your cramps 
  become stronger and you are getting very uncomfortable. At this point, the 
  nurses change shifts and new nurse comes in. She says she needs to check you 
  again since it's been awhile and you don't seem to be making any progress. She 
  inserts 2 fingers again and shakes her head from side-to-side and gives you a 
  very disapproving look. You have not made any progress. You want to try so 
  badly to relax so you can make progress but with the iv, the strangers, the 
  fingers in your rectum and the negative attitudes of the staff, there are just 
  too many distractions and you can't. By now your cramps are very painful and 
  it takes all you've got to just stay on top of them. The hospital team 
  decides to insert a wire up your anus to determine if, indeed, your cramps are 
  as bad as you say they are. They again insert 2 fingers to check the dilation 
  and fecal decent. They tell you that if you don't make any progress in the 
  next 30 minutes, they may have to cut the feces out. This causes you to be 
  even more tense and you have a hard time trying to relax just knowing what may 
  happen if you can't push it out yourself. After another hour of laying in bed, 
  the female doctor comes in and does yet another exam with 2 fingers because he 
  

RE: [ozmidwifery] FW: Birthcentre/ homebirth

[Ken Ward]

Have 
you stopped driving a car, or being a passenger? Awful things do happen, and 
sometimes they aren't predictable. Even with hospital and birth centre births 
things happen. You will see awful things in hospital, a lot due to 
mismanagement and interventions. Ponder deeply, pray and 
talk. Maureen

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Michelle 
  WindsorSent: Saturday, 24 June 2006 5:34 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] FW: 
  Birthcentre/ homebirth
  Hi Nat,
  
  When I was doing my mid training my preceptor and I used to talk about 
  the 'obstetric demons' that sometimes come and sit on your 
  shoulder!! But if you look into the research on homebirth you will 
  find that in healthy women, the outcomes are comparable or better than 
  hospital birth. As others have said, it's where you feel most 
  comfortable that counts. I recently had an email from Sarah Buckley in 
  which she said the same thing. wherever the woman chooses to birth that 
  makes her feel the safest will promote endorphin release, normal labour 
  etc.
  
  All the best
  
  Michelle"Stepney, Natalie Anita - stena001" 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  





From: Stepney, Natalie Anita - 
stena001Sent: Fri 23/06/2006 7:00 PMTo: 
OZMidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Birthcentre/ 
homebirth

Hi, 
I'm a mid student in my last year and 20 weeks 
pregnant.
I'm planning a homebirth, but since being 
present at a horrific labour which culminatedin the woman having a 
hysterectomy and two days intubated in ICU following severe bleeding post 
partumly. Im having second thoughts.
I washonoured to be present at my best 
friends water birth monday night in a birth centre. I'm thinking that 
maybeI should go that way, as there is back-up.
I would like some professional opinions 
please.
Cheers Nat

  
  
  Do you Yahoo!?Yahoo! 
  Music: Check out the gig guide for live music in your 
area

RE: [ozmidwifery] Manual rotation

[Ken Ward]

I have 
seen OP's rotate once on the peri and vaginal dilation present. It was 
fascinating to see, the saggituial suture rotating 180

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Susan 
  CudlippSent: Thursday, 22 June 2006 6:05 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Manual 
  rotation
  Hi Astra
  I have used this in the past having been shown it 
  by (even) older midwives, but not for many years. I had mixed success 
  with it, there's no doubt that it can help on occasions, as with all these 
  "old skills" some situations require a bit extra and if a midwife is alone she 
  needs to use all the skills known to her (or him - sorry). I have not 
  had a situation in which to think of it for a very long time. OP's 
  mostly rotate after full dilation and when they begin to descend, so trying to 
  rotate them prior to that or when they are still high,seems pointless 
  now. It seems to me to be part of the old "you are fully now so let's 
  get you pushing" scenario which I no longer practice. Physiological pushing 
  when the woman feels the urge will accomplish rotation in most instances. If a 
  woman is pushing as directed by her own sensations and has a baby in OP it 
  will often take a long time to bring the baby into view because she is pushing 
  him around gently - I rarely see a persistent OP these days, don't know when I 
  last caught or sawa 'face to pubes' bub.
  
  =I witnessed a digital rotation, or manual 
  rotation of the baby of a woman in late first stage of labour, and a cascade 
  of issues followed.=
  Did this incident cause some adverse 
  outcomes? 
  
  Regards, Sue
  
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Astra Joynt 

To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 

Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 6:31 
PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Manual 
rotation

Hi eveyone, I am a first year Bmid student who 
has recently joined the list, and have been getting a lot out of reading the 
posts on various subjects. Now I'm wanting to ask advice on an issue that I 
have been trying to resolve since early on in my clinical experience. 
Without going into the whole story, I witnessed a digital rotation, or 
manual rotation of the baby of a woman in late first stage of labour, and a 
cascade of issues followed. In debriefing with my lecturers at uni, I was 
told this is not good or safe practice at any time. I then witnessed the 
same midwife perform this procedure again a few weeks later. Debriefing with 
a clinical educater, I was told it is an 'old skill', and certain very 
experienced midwives still practice it. Then my clinical supervisor refuted 
this and said it is dangerous and has no place in midwifery practice.This is 
a very brief summary of these conversations, but I hope you get the gist. 
Anyway, I was happy with this, until I read in Mayes Midwifery the other day 
that this procedure can be used to help turn a posterior baby!! I am 
completely confused! Safe, or not? Evidence based, or not? I would really 
appreciate any light cast on this subject... and just in case no one knows 
what I mean by digital rotation (if this is not the common term for it) It 
is the midwife using her fingers internally to sort of hook the baby's head 
(cervix fully dilated I guess, or close to it) and turn it into a more 
optimal position, using her own strength and accompanied by the woman 
actively pushing. I just want to also say that I know this is not something 
that should be occuring in any normal straightforward birth, but what other 
information or experience to you have, 
 
warm regards, Astra



No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free 
Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.1/369 - Release Date: 
19/06/2006

[ozmidwifery] CTG's

[Ken Ward]

Story heard yesterday.  Woman admitted with SROM, not in labour, CTG awful.
Woman refused C/S because where she comes from women who have C/S rarely
have another successful pregnancy. Signed herself out. Back in a couple of
days in labour, awful CTG.  Proceeded to a normal birth, intact peri and a
lovely, healthy baby. Just goes to show. 

Ken  Maureen Ward
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

attachment: winmail.dat

RE: [ozmidwifery] PPH levels soar

[Ken Ward]

They were using syntometerine for all women except those with high BP,  when
synto was given, back in 1986 where I did mid in NSW, and we were considered
pretty low intervention.  I have noticed an increase in PPH, and a large
increase in morbidity.  More women are ending up in HDU. Not as many blood
transfusions,  but lower Hb's acceptable.  It is scary. Maureen

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of jo
Sent: Sunday, 11 June 2006 9:26 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] PPH levels soar


Yeah, sucking on a piece of placenta is said to be a great way to stop
bleeding. Even though I'm vegetarian I would have given it a go rather than
go to hosp.

Lost 1500mls after first baby's birth, after cord traction which ended with
cord in registrars hand and placenta inside - manual removal, blood
transfusion uuugg would've eaten a horse to avoid that again!

Jo

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jo Bourne
Sent: Sunday, 11 June 2006 9:10 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] PPH levels soar

I know that homeopaths believe that the same thing you give to fix a symptom
can cause that symptom in a well person, or given in the wrong dose for the
individual. This is how they prove a homeopathic treatment. I don't know
if I have explained that very well...

Here is a link about homeopathic proving

http://www.hpathy.com/research/shere-proving-homeopathy.asp

Jo

At 6:49 PM +1000 11/6/06, Sue Cookson wrote:
Hi,
This article appeared in last week's Sydney Morning Herald.
I think it's amazing and it appears that some of the information is
incorrect in that the article states that NSW Health implemented active
thrid stage and early cord clamping in 2002. Surely syntometrine and
syntocinon have been used for many more years than just the last four, in
which case this study is a real eye-opener if you believe we are stopping
women from bleeding by using drugs in third stage.

What do you think?

Sue

Transfusions soar for women giving birth

Julie Robotham Medical Editor
June 3, 2006

RECORD numbers of NSW women need transfusions to treat massive blood loss
after giving birth, in an epidemic that doctors say is threatening new
mothers' health and fertility and sometimes their lives.

The number of women diagnosed with post-partum hemorrhage has rocketed by
nearly 30 per cent, and almost one in nine births was affected in 2002,
compared to one in 12 in 1994, University of Sydney research has shown.

Of those, the proportion whose condition was severe enough to warrant a
blood transfusion increased sixfold, from 2 per cent to 12 per cent.

It's extremely important, said Ken Clark, the president of the Royal
Australian and New Zealand College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists.
Bleeding was still a very real cause of the death of women but also a great
deal of [ill health] that has a tremendous impact on women and their
families.

In the worst cases mothers had to undergo emergency hysterectomies to save
their lives, but even less dramatic surgery to clamp blood vessels or
anaemia could be debilitating.

To have that on top of all the other stresses and strains of motherhood Š
it's the last thing people need, Dr Clark said.

The NSW findings are the first large-scale confirmation of the impression
among individual doctors and hospitals across Australia that major bleeding
is increasing.

Carolyn Cameron, who led the statewide analysis, said neither the
well-documented rise in caesarean section births nor the growing number of
older mothers could explain the increase in hemorrhages. It was possible
more borderline cases were being identified, but this alone was unlikely to
account for the increase.

We have to search for something else. It's a mystery, said Ms Cameron, a
research officer at the Centre for Perinatal Health Services Research.

The group would now look at how many previous pregnancies women had and the
length of their labours to see whether these offered clues to the reasons
for hemorrhage - diagnosed when more than 500 millilitres of blood is lost
after a vaginal birth, or more than 750 millilitres after a caesarean.

Blood loss - usually from the site where the placenta detaches - is
currently the single largest cause of pregnancy-related death in Australia.

Between 1997 and 1999 - the most recent period for which figures are
available - eight women died as a consequence, including two who refused
transfusions for religious reasons.

Ms Cameron's research, published in the Australian and New Zealand Journal
of Public Health, was based on the medical records of more than 52,000 women
who had a birth-related hemorrhage in NSW between 1994 and 2002.

It is not yet clear whether the pattern has continued since 2002, when NSW
Health recommended the use of drugs to expel the placenta and early clamping
of the umbilical cord to limit bleeding.

David Ellwood, 

RE: Re: [ozmidwifery] new centrelink forms

[Ken Ward]

I admire anyone having a free birth. I can understand your frustration with
centrelink. But do not despair, they do this to everyone, and not just
centrelink. I have had similar experiences with government and private
businesses, schools, hospitals. Everyone seems to want to make things as
hard as they can, and no one can tell you anything, or make a decision. I
hope you do write and complain, sending copies to ministers newspapers. You
will find a lot of support.  Maureen

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, 9 June 2006 11:59 AM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] new centrelink forms


HI Penny,

Thanks for your response. So many good points. I too was in touch with
Bronwyn and she left the position in the middle of my application process.

I had called the registry before Runah was born and was informed that we
just needed to stat decs, one could be from me and one from my hubby. The
girl on the phone was lovely and highly intrigued by the concept of
unassisted birth. I had heard of mamas having a really hard time so thought
this was going to be easy and great. How wrong I was, and I am not one for
putting up with being treated badly, but these people were IMPOSSIBLE!!

Basically we sent away the form and our two stat decs, we didn't hear back
for a few weeks so I rang up and got the most horrible woman on the phone,
her name is Maria. She huffed in a disapproving way when I told her our
story and said,  YOU DID WHAT!!??!! After looking it up she said our
application had been processed and we would receive our birth certificate
within the week. I asked to speak to her supervisor to put in a complaint
about her as she had been really rude. She told me I could not and would
have to send a letter of complaint to the office. I demanded to speak with
her supervisor and after about 5 mins of arguing she finally agreed to go
and get someone. I was on hold for 11 minutes (yes I timed it) and she got
back on the phone and said, sorry noone wants to talk to you! You'll just
have to write in and complain. I then said,  you kept me on hold for 11
minutes to tell me that, and she said,  ahh YES!! and chuckled!!
AAUUGGHH!!!

So, again we didn't hear anything for a couple of weeks, called again,  more
promises made, another couple of weeks still nothing. Then we received a
letter saying we needed to send in more info regarding my doctor, butI
didn't have a doctor! This went on for 3 months back and forth, we need
this, we need that, but only when we would call and often our calls were not
returned. In the end I yelled at someone about how ridiculous and
incompetent the system was and got put through to someone else who was very
helpful and seemed to get it sorted, but it was not.

In the end this is what we provided:

Two stat decs from my husband and I
Extra proof of ID from us ( which is ridiculous as we had to get a JP to
view our ID and sign them)
A stat dec from a friend who was at the birth ~ they also asked her a few
weeks later to send copies of her ID signed by a JP, then sent her their own
stat decs for her to fill in!!)
A stat dec from a doctor we know ~ he knew how stupid it could be and
photocopied and faxed every piece of id he owned!

I then called and they told me I hadn't paid, by this time I was so angry
and irate and let loose threatening to come down and create a scene. I do
feel sorry for that poor guy. Anyway it worked and a few days later we
received a standard and a decorative birth certificate.

The funniest thing, a few days after receiving the certificates we received
another set!

It was a crazy, stressful and demoralising experience and I was definitely
being mistreated because of my decision to freebirth.

In regards to your comment about the word freebirth as opposed to
unassisted birth I use both terms but recently have been thinking about
the terms. I sometimes feel that the term unassisted birth implies that
assistance is necessary but you have chosen to not have assistance. I think
freebirth implies just that, freedom in the true sense of the word, with
no interferrence.

I too, don't think it's a good decision for every mama, but it was the best,
most empowering and healing decision for me. I do think for some mamas it is
an enlightened choice, though deeply personal.

Love Abby


 according to where she is at in her life. I think it is the rare few
 that
 would truly choose to ever birth without any trained assistance whether
 it
 be medical or lay and I don't think it is wise to make this out as an
 enlightened choice (remember I have had two wonderful births like this
 myself so I'm not speaking from lack of love for this option).

 Maybe I have it wrong and the free' relates to no monetary cost!

 warm regards to all who provide choice for women in a world where it is
 sadly becoming nonexistent
 Penny
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RE: [ozmidwifery] Introducing solids too early

[Ken Ward]

I was 
curious as to what age solids are introduced. As I said, my eldest 3 had 
solids from about 3 months or so, and no problems. The youngest at about 9 mths, 
and all sorts of probs getting her to not only eat, but to try to eat. 


  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Carol 
  FallowsSent: Thursday, 8 June 2006 10:53 AMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 
  Introducing solids too early
  Hi Kelly,
  In the 1930s babies were not weaned onto solids 
  until they were around eight or nine months and it was a slow process 
  -many were also weaned onto cow's milk at this age. Up until the 1970s 
  it was thought that once a baby had teeth he should be put on the bottle. 
  Weaning onto solids only became a big issue as society became more prosperous 
  after the second world war. It is very interesting to go through some of the 
  old baby books - Spock, early Penelope Leach, Penny Stanway, Christopher Green 
  - it becomes apparent that their attitude to breastfeeding is probably one of 
  the main reasons why babies were not breastfed, why weaning onto solids was 
  introduced far too early and why commercial baby food became 
  'essential'.
  On the subject of other cultures, in many Asian 
  countries babies are weaned onto rice foods such as congee which is sieved and 
  mixed with lentil juice, in Africa first food is also rice or maize porridge 
  and in South America it is traditionally corn and potatoes.It seems obvious 
  that babies are weaned onto whatever the staple food is (and quite often it is 
  rice which coincidentally is considered to be the least likely to lead to 
  allergies) .
  Hope that's helpful
  Carol Fallows
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Päivi Laukkanen 

To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 

Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 5:20 
PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Introducing 
solids too early

Hi Kelly,

I can'r remember of any studies now, but the 
book "Rediscovering Birth" by Sheila Kitzinger (I think it was in that one) 
has interesting information how in different countries we use very different 
foods to start solids. In Finland the first solids have traditionally been 
potato and carrot! and banana and brunes.In US it's rice cereal. but 
it differs a lot between cultures. Too bad I can't remember the rest. I 
would love to get a copy of your article, when it's ready.

Päivi

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kelly 
  @ BellyBelly 
  To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
  
  Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 1:28 
  AM
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] Introducing 
  solids too early
  
  
  I’ve come across so many mums 
  who are introducing solids far too early and as a result I am writing an 
  article on it and trying to gather information from studies. I heard there 
  was a study in the US which indicated one possible 
  complication was juvenile diabetes. Does anyone know of any studies or 
  resources in regards to solids and early introduction and where I can find 
  them?
  Best Regards,Kelly ZanteyCreator, 
  BellyBelly.com.au 
  Gentle Solutions 
  From Conception to ParenthoodBellyBelly Birth 
  Support - 
  http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support
  

RE: [ozmidwifery] Sad article reinforcing the need for rural maternity units

[Ken Ward]

My 
heart goes out to these people, I could cry. Yes, it is cold, callous and 
so very cruel. 

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Helen and 
  GrahamSent: Wednesday, 7 June 2006 8:28 PMTo: 
  ozmidwiferySubject: [ozmidwifery] Sad article reinforcing the need 
  for rural maternity units 
  http://www.abc.net.au/cgi-bin/common/printfriendly.pl?http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200606/s1657819.htm
  
  ABC 
  Online Father forced to deliver 
  stillborn baby on roadside. 07/06/2006. ABC News Online 
  Last Update: Wednesday, June 7, 2006. 6:21pm 
  (AEST)
  Father forced to deliver stillborn baby on roadside
  
  The Queensland Opposition says a man was forced to 
  deliver a stillborn baby on the side of the road after his pregnant wife was 
  sent from one hospital to another.
  Opposition MP Vaughan Johnson says the couple were sent 
  from the Emerald hospital to Rockhampton last month, when the baby was found 
  to have died in the womb.
  He says the baby was delivered on the way.
  Mr Johnson says the woman left Emerald in the family car 
  and should have been transported in an ambulance.
  He says he is not satisfied with the response of Health 
  Minister Stephen Robertson
  "The Minister displayed cold, callous, despicable 
  leadership here this morning," he said.
  "I call on Stephen Robertson to find out why, and what 
  sort of a remedy he's going to put in place, not only [at] Emerald but other 
  hospitals throughout Queensland, to make sure that this deplorable despicable 
  act never happens again."
  Mr Robertson says there was no sign of labour when the 
  woman left Emerald.
  But he has told Parliament the local health district is 
  investigating and that the couple has other options as well.
  "Those people have the right to put this matter before 
  the Health Rights Commission, they have the right to have this matter fully 
  and independently investigated," he 
said.

RE: [ozmidwifery] Introducing solids

[Ken Ward]

It is 
often the mother pushing to start solids. For already mentioned reasons, and 
because it is seen as a milestone, like sitting etc; "My baby is solo advanced 
that s/he needs solids." I must admit, though, of my four, 3 were started 
at 6 weeks, as was done 20 years ago. Never had much problem with them eating. 
No.4, who's 9, wasn't started on solids until nine months, and I have had awful 
trouble, very finicky, wouldn't be fed although insisted on being nursed with 
the bottle, refused to hold it. 

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Päivi 
  LaukkanenSent: Wednesday, 7 June 2006 6:00 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 
  Introducing solids
  I guess some professionals would say, "Oh your 
  baby is so tiny, that he will need more food" or "Oh, he's such a big boy I 
  think he'll need some more food"...
  
  Päivi
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Helen and Graham 
To: ozmidwifery 
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 10:45 
AM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Introducing 
solids


Some other invalid but commonly 
cited reasons for deciding to introduce solids earlier than six 
months from my experience are 
1. The pressure to get a baby to sleep 
through the night. If I feed the baby solids I will fill him/her up 
and he won't wake at night! Sleep deprivation contributes to this 
decision.
2. Baby was watching me eat therefore 
he wants some??!!!
3. BF more often at around that age( ? 
due to a growth spurt ).therefore I mustn't have enough milk and the 
baby wants more than I can give!

Helen

RE: [ozmidwifery] new centrelink forms

[Ken Ward]

Why not just go to Centrelink? Take baby and a stat deck, or certificate
from GP. Maureen

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Sue Cookson
Sent: Tuesday, 6 June 2006 5:40 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: [ozmidwifery] new centrelink forms


Hi,
Anyone out there have any idea how women/couples who choose to birth
unattended or with non-registered attendants can get there babies
centrelink/medicare form from?

Used to be a matter of getting baby sighted by a GP and the appropriate
forms signed. The new forms are all registered to the care provider and
most GPs don't have them.

Any thoughts?

Sue
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RE: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: E-News 8:11 - Postdates Pregnancies (May 24, 2006)

[Ken Ward]

I can not see how a machine is all that helpful for PIH or APH. Surely one
is monitoring the mum and bub's welfare, listening to the FHR at intervals
appropriate to each situation, watching for abnormal blood loss, mec liquor,
blood pressure, and most importantly listening TO WHAT MUM IS SAYING,and
tuning into your own gut instinct. No machine has reduced the perinatal
morbidity or mortality rate. Machines have increased intervention, caused
needless worry and given false reassurance. We are losing our skills as
humans, delegating to machines. Maureen

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of sharon
Sent: Wednesday, 31 May 2006 11:53 AM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: E-News 8:11 - Postdates Pregnancies
(May 24, 2006)


hi i think that machines do have their palce in the birthing process if and
only if the individual woman has a pre exisiting complaint such as PIH or
APH. to moniter the baby is a good thing not to mention the fact that some
of these machines ensure that there is a reduced perinatal mortality. Im all
for machines that keep both the mother and the baby health in check and not
for machines such as the one described which measures cerival dilatation
what rot. what about good old fashioned midwifery skills or better still
listening to what your woman is telling you.
regards sharon
- Original Message -
From: Mary Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 10:49 AM
Subject: RE: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: E-News 8:11 - Postdates Pregnancies (May
24, 2006)



 Well, how can we know if there is a medical indication unless the machines
 have told us? MM

 so lets keep our interferring hands off until there is a medical
 indication!! Leanne.

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RE: [ozmidwifery] Keillands Deliveries

[Ken Ward]

I remember Kelliands from student days. Applied, turned, off and the woman
then proceeding to a normal birth.  I myself, had a Kelliands with bub no.4.
POP, quick turn and she just about fell out. In the right hands they can be
effective and prevent major surgery. I have see the vacuum used for birthing
a POP.   Maureen

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Nicole Carver
Sent: Wednesday, 31 May 2006 6:28 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Keillands Deliveries


Hi Marg,
A lot of women who would birth at my workplace (regional Victoria) in the
past with Keillands are now birthed by caesarean. Usually vacuum will not
do/be used to do what Keillands will do (in the majority of cases, although
I was taught it was possible) ie rotate the head from OP or transverse. I
haven't seen a Keillands for about four years. Not sure if it is due to a
perception that it is safer  fear of litigation if there are birth
injuries, maybe. It isn't due to the doctors not having the skills where I
work, because we haven't had a change of doctors in years (unfortunately!) I
will be very interested to hear the other responses that you get.
Warm wishes,
Nicole.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Marg Williams
Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 4:52 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Keillands Deliveries


I would be interested to know what other midwives experiences are regarding
the use of keillands forceps. I trained in a tertiary hospital in Victoria
almost 20 years ago, and regularly saw keillands forceps used. I have
noticed a decline in their use over this time, and am wondering is this a
current trend in obstetrics generally, or perhaps just a Queensland trend to
use vacuums for assisted deliveries. I can't help wondering if it is a skill
not being passed on to our training registrars as the older obstetricians
retire, and take these skills with them, or maybe vacuum deliveries are the
easiest way out. What do other midwives think?

Marg

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RE: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: E-News 8:11 - Postdates Pregnancies (May 24, 2006)

[Ken Ward]

I was thinking the same today, Abby. The list seems to have changed. It
wasn't all that long ago we would have been discussing how not to give hepb,
but just last week the topic was when to give it.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, 29 May 2006 5:59 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: E-News 8:11 - Postdates Pregnancies
(May 24, 2006)


Hi,

I do find this totally horrifying, but not any more so than most the stuff
OBs and midwives use on a regular basis already in hospitals.

In recent times it seems that not many on the Ozmid list raise their voices
in response to the ways, techniques and instruments used in the abuse of
women and their rights in childbirth. Sort of speaks of the whole birthing
scene in this country, midwives in hospitals too scared to speak out against
things that fellow care providers are doing to birthing women.

To be perfectly honest about this new contraption, it seems way less of an
atroscity than cutting a womans yoni open while she lays on a back with a
bunch of people standing by!

Love Abby ~ who, can't believe the horrible things she reads and hears of
the way women are treated in our hospitals while trying to birth their
baby's!!



 Alesa Koziol [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hi Andrea
 point taken -I was mindful of the copyright requests
 however..I
 am sending this to the list again.

 Originally posted on Friday with no feedback. Are there no others in the
 oz
 community horrified by the idea of this devise? Do we not have enough
 technology invading normal birth already? A timely reminder perhaps in
 light
 of the current thread on CTG is that they too were introduced widely
 with
 little research to validate their wide spread value yet have been
 grasped by
 the legal community as an all seeing tool - a tool which now governs a
 lot
 of 'normal' or 'routine' clinical practice.
 My thoughts
 Alesa

 Alesa Koziol
 Clinical Midwifery Educator
 Melbourne

 - Original Message -
 From: Andrea Robertson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
 Sent: Friday, May 26, 2006 4:35 PM
 Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: E-News 8:11 - Postdates Pregnancies (May
 24,
 2006)


  Hi Alesa,
 
  Perhaps next time, just cut and paste the relevant section - I find
 these
 loo...ong bulletins impossible to wade through!
  However, I know Debby well and I've done workshops at her hospital.
 They
 have the only birth centre in Israel and are a terrific bunch of  strong
 women and midwifery advocates.
 
  I am glad she has raised this issue. The thought of this technology is
 truly awful and I am sure that women will not want to use it if  they
 are
 fully informed. Reminds me of a gadget that was tested at  one of the
 UK's
 biggest midwifery hospitals a few years ago: it was a huge belt that was
 wrapped around the woman's tummy at the start of  second stage and then
 inflated to push the baby down if the woman  couldn't push due to
 having
 an epidural. You can imagine how the  midwives felt about having to be
 part
 of the trials. As far as I  know, this particular gadget didn't make it
 to
 the manufacturing  stage, so perhaps this one that Debby speaks of won't
 either.
 
  Who dreams up these ideas?  Dare I say it - men, probably!
 
  Regards,
 
  Andrea

  MIDWIFERY TODAY E-NEWS
  A publication of Midwifery Today, Inc.
  Volume 8, Issue 11, May 24, 2006
  Postdates Pregnancies
  ~~
  A high tech company called Barnev (www.barnev.co.il/) is currently
 manufacturing a product called a computerized labor monitoring system.
 This
 product works by placing two clips with electrodes on a laboring woman's
 cervix and a scalp electrode on the fetus and using ultrasound waves to
 measure cervical dilation and height (descent) of the fetal head. I am
 aware
 of this product because of clinical trials were held at the hospital
 with
 which I am affiliated. In spite of the midwives' opposition to using
 this
 mechanical device on women, we were not able to totally block its use
 (although some changes were made in the informed consent, and many women
 did
 not agree to participate due to midwives' explaining to them what was
 involved). The trials were moved to other hospitals where the midwives
 were
 not as vocal in their opposition, and now the company is promoting use
 in
 Europe and the US. I understand that they have received or will be
 receiving
 Food and Drug Administration (FDA) approval. The product is being
 promoted
 as a means to assess women's progress in labor without a manual vaginal
 examination.
 I believe that this product takes advantage of and potentially harms
 women
 and their babies in labor, all for the purpose of economically profiting
 a
 biotech company. I believe that steps need to be taken at a higher level
 regarding the ethical considerations.
 How do E-News readers suggest that I 

RE: [ozmidwifery] weight loss

[Ken Ward]

They 
notify pretty quickly. But it could be some other metabolic disorder. Worth 
thinking about.

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Nancy San 
  MartinSent: Monday, 29 May 2006 10:54 AMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] weight 
  loss
  
  Have you considered 
  getting results from NBST asap? Sounds like a metabolic disorder  cystic 
  fibrosis?
  
  
  
  
  
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan CudlippSent: Wednesday, 24 May 2006 11:44 
  PMTo: midwifery 
  listSubject: [ozmidwifery] 
  weight loss
  
  
  Dear wise 
  women
  
  I have been following a client on 
  early discharge whose baby is losing weight. Now about 2 weeks old, I 
  readmitted her on day 5 as bub was lethargic, had not had a bowel movement and 
  had lost weight. She expressed, fed and topped up, bub 'woke up' and put on 
  weight, started opening bowels and generally improved all round, went home 
  again fully breast feeding, seems to have plenty of milk, plenty of wet 
  nappies but again - no poo's, and on last 2 visits had lost weight, 50g then 
  another 40g. Has not regained birth weight yet and does not seem satisfied 
  despite frequent b/f. I will be seeing her again tomorrow and am frankly 
  puzzled by this scenario. She is on medication herself for epilepsy (low dose 
  Tegretol and another that I can't remember) and has been taking Motilium to 
  boost supply.
  
  Any 
  suggestions/comments?
  
  TIA 
  Sue
  
  "The only thing necessary for the 
  triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund 
  Burke

RE: [ozmidwifery] Re:

[Ken Ward]

From what I have read there is less than a 2% chance of vitamin K deficiency
bleed. Why has nature, in all her wisdom, prepared babies for life, and
provided all those yummy things in breast milk, but has totally forgot to
supply an adequate amount of vit k? I have been reading up on haemorrhagic
disease of the newborn, and it seems like another case of something that
will benefit a small number overflowing to all.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of brendamanning
Sent: Friday, 26 May 2006 7:08 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re:


If a solution is designed to be given IM is it absorbed effectively if given
via the GI tract ?
No mention of this in the literature accompanying the Konakion.
Most IM meds are NOT designed to be administered or guaranteed by the
pharmaceutical company to be effective if given orally.
It may be neutralised by gastric secretions, I am unaware of any research re
this.
Anyone else know of any ?

If you are going to introduce a foreign substance into the GI tract of a
baby you'd want to have a good reason  be sure that it was being absorbed
wouldn't you ?

With kind regards
Brenda Manning
www.themidwife.com.au

- Original Message -
From: diane [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Friday, May 26, 2006 6:48 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re:


 Apart from the fact it tastes like Sh** (very bitter). Been reading about
 Vit K all day today . Seems like a pretty good option as far as the
 statitistics go.
 http://www.nhmrc.gov.au/publications/_files/ch39.pdf

 they recommend further research into the effectiveness of supplimenting
 brestfeeding mothers to increase the vit K in breastmilk as an effective
 suppliment.

 Di
 - Original Message -
 From: Kelly @ BellyBelly [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
 Sent: Friday, May 26, 2006 5:30 PM
 Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Re:


 Just a side question if that's okay - what are your opinions on oral
 vitamin
 K versus injection?

 Best Regards,

 Kelly Zantey
 Creator, BellyBelly.com.au
 Gentle Solutions From Conception to Parenthood
 BellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support


 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrea Quanchi
 Sent: Friday, 26 May 2006 3:24 PM
 To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
 Subject: [ozmidwifery] Re:

 The place I work we give it when we do the NST. It was a midwife
 decision not an evidence based one.  Like giving it with the vit K it
 is easier to do it at a predictable time so that it doesn't get
 overlooked.  The midwives wanted not to do it at birth as they were
 wanting to do as little as possible to interupt Mum and baby, As we
 need to have a signed consent form to give it and the mothers have
 often not filled this is prior to birth it was very interupting to
 get all thisDone on the birth day and we find it not an issue later
 when everyone has had time to sit down read the literature and
 discuss it.  Of course then we do have a number of mums who decline
 to have it which is their right and is not an issue at all.
 Andrea Q
 On 25/05/2006, at 8:10 PM, Amanda W wrote:

 Hi all,

 I have just started working at a new health facility that tends to
 give hep B injections on day 2 or 3. I have come from a facility
 that gives hep B at birth when vitamin k is given. Can anyone shed
 some light as to why the might do it this way. Any articles. They
 seem to not know why they do it. I just want to change practice so
 that can be done at the same time as the vitamin k.

 Thanks.


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RE: [ozmidwifery] weight loss

[Ken Ward]

I had 
a Chinese woman tell me about her chicken and ginger soup that she swears by for 
abundant milk supply.(chicken soupcan bepretty fatty). The Asians 
have a reasonable level of fat in their diet, especially when feeding. I 
mentioned dairy because we are told to stick to the low fat, especially 
dairy. Sue said the baby is having good, wet nappies, I agree with the 
supply line in preference to bottles, having used one myself for 4 months. 
Maureen

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Barbara Glare 
   Chris BrightSent: Thursday, 25 May 2006 8:10 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] weight 
  loss
  Hi,
  
  This is getting off the track in of the 
  story.. The role of diet is interesting. I wonder how the Chinese 
  manage - no walls of dairy cabinets in Chinese supermarkets.
  
  Re the breastfeeding, it still sounds a bit like 
  not enough milk. I feel a 2 week old breastfed baby should be having 
  plenty of poos.and some weight gain - not loss. Lots of mums, 
  using disposables, have a tough time working our how much wee a baby is 
  having. How much milk was she able to express? Babies often seem 
  to take more by bottle than they would normally need. at 60mls 3 hrly, that 
  would seem to be more than 1/2 of his normal intake in formula.
  
  The first rule is certainly *feed the baby* 
  But formula feeding such large amounts won't help build up her milk 
  supply. Is there a plan to increase that?
  
  Barb
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Ken 
Ward 
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 

Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 11:04 
AM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] weight 
loss

He's getting enough fluid, so look at mum's diet. Is 
she getting enough fat and protein? Even if overweight she should be having 
full fat dairy. I wouldn't be worried about no poo, but 
theweight loss is worrying. How often is he feeding and for how 
long? Off hand I'd say he's not getting enough 
fat.

  -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Susan 
  CudlippSent: Wednesday, 24 May 2006 11:44 PMTo: 
  midwifery listSubject: [ozmidwifery] weight 
  loss
  Dear wise women
  I have been following a client on early 
  discharge whose baby is losing weight. Now about 2 weeks old, I readmitted 
  her on day 5 as bub was lethargic, had not had a bowel movement and had 
  lost weight. She expressed, fed and topped up, bub 'woke up' and put on 
  weight, started opening bowels and generally improved all round, went home 
  again fully breast feeding, seems to have plenty of milk, plenty of wet 
  nappies but again - no poo's, and on last 2 visits had lost weight, 50g 
  then another 40g. Has not regained birth weight yet and does not seem 
  satisfied despite frequent b/f. I will be seeing her again tomorrow 
  and am frankly puzzled by this scenario. She is on medication herself for 
  epilepsy (low dose Tegretol and another that I can't remember) and has 
  been taking Motilium to boost supply.
  Any suggestions/comments?
  TIA Sue
  "The only thing necessary for the triumph of 
  evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund 
  Burke

RE: [ozmidwifery] pain

[Ken Ward]

Sounds 
dam annoying to me, like water torture. Maureen

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Alan  
  Linda TrewernSent: Thursday, 25 May 2006 9:48 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 
  pain
  Sounds like an activity to take your mind off the 
  other pain, although many years ago I attended a forum on Chinese medicine and 
  the medical doctor who spoke, encouraged people to tap the lower 3rd of the 
  sternum daily for good health. I did it for a while but felt no 
  different.
  
  Regards 
  Linda
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Mary 
Murphy 
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 

Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 9:03 
PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] pain


I wonder if this works? 

The Art of 
Midwifery
For all 
kinds of pain, including postpartum pains, using the index finger, tap 
firmly (not hard enough to leave marks/bruises) right on, around and under 
the cheek bone, going back and forth on each side of your face. Tap, tap, 
tap tap on the right side, then tap, tap, tap tap on the left, and back 
again. If you do this while nursing, the pain slides away. It's a cheap and 
easy remedy. All you need is a finger! Anon Midwifery Today 
Forums

RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: hep b

[Ken Ward]

Why give it at all?  I object to the hep b, and have strong reservations
about the vitk. Maureen

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of diane
Sent: Thursday, 25 May 2006 10:12 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Re: hep b


Amanda wrote.
I just want to change practice so that can be done at the same time as the
vitamin k...

So do I only when indicated by a risk situation..

Diane

- Original Message -
From: Amanda W [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 8:10 PM


 Hi all,

 I have just started working at a new health facility that tends to give
 hep B injections on day 2 or 3. I have come from a facility that gives hep
 B at birth when vitamin k is given. Can anyone shed some light as to why
 the might do it this way. Any articles. They seem to not know why they do
 it. I just want to change practice so that can be done at the same time as
 the vitamin k.

 Thanks.


 --
 This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
 Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.



--
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Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.


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Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.

RE: [ozmidwifery] weight loss

[Ken Ward]

He's getting enough fluid, so look at mum's diet. Is she getting enough 
fat and protein? Even if overweight she should be having full fat dairy. I 
wouldn't be worried about no poo, but theweight loss is worrying. 
How often is he feeding and for how long? Off hand I'd say he's not 
getting enough fat.

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Susan 
  CudlippSent: Wednesday, 24 May 2006 11:44 PMTo: 
  midwifery listSubject: [ozmidwifery] weight 
  loss
  Dear wise women
  I have been following a client on early discharge 
  whose baby is losing weight. Now about 2 weeks old, I readmitted her on day 5 
  as bub was lethargic, had not had a bowel movement and had lost weight. She 
  expressed, fed and topped up, bub 'woke up' and put on weight, started opening 
  bowels and generally improved all round, went home again fully breast feeding, 
  seems to have plenty of milk, plenty of wet nappies but again - no poo's, and 
  on last 2 visits had lost weight, 50g then another 40g. Has not regained birth 
  weight yet and does not seem satisfied despite frequent b/f. I will be 
  seeing her again tomorrow and am frankly puzzled by this scenario. She is on 
  medication herself for epilepsy (low dose Tegretol and another that I can't 
  remember) and has been taking Motilium to boost supply.
  Any suggestions/comments?
  TIA Sue
  "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil 
  is for good men to do nothing"Edmund 
Burke

RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: First breastfeeds

[Ken Ward]

One of 
the problems of the first feed is that it has been stressed that the infant 
'must' feed asap after birth. Women are told in class, and while the midwife may 
be perfectly happy to wait, the mum can get quite stressed. I'm happy to wait, 
and find it frustrating when the mum is pushing, and can't hear what I'm saying, 
or the next shift comes along and undermines me. I'm getting worried, too, about 
this lost nearly 10% and intervention happening. Babies are not being 
treated as indivuals, output, vigour alertness not noted. I see more babies 
being comped now than five years ago. And mums being expressed to comp babies 
before the milk's in. 

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Sue 
  CooksonSent: Saturday, 3 June 2006 11:51 AMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] Re: First 
  breastfeedsHi Melissa,I only have anecdotal evidence 
  from 20 odd years of homebirthing where I've observed quite a number of babies 
  not breastfeed even within the first 24 hours. These are babies who have very 
  normal deliveries, no drugs and full access to the breast. As much as it can 
  be uncomfortable to watch based on the texts and current managed practices, 
  these babies all started sucking strongly when they needed to. As i am not 
  also involved in wieghing babies on day 3 or whatever to determine weight 
  loss/gain and don't have to hand them over to paeds etc, I am free to use my 
  observations of wellbeing such as skin turgor, alertness, jaundice levels etc, 
  and individualise my service to the woman.I have been working in a 
  largish hospital on and off over the past 6 months and have been truly 
  horrified by the interference than can and does happen with those first 
  breastfeeds in the name of institutionalised policies. I have no answers about 
  how this can change as there is also a huge discrepancy between the knowledge 
  base of the staff involved. Some of the things I hear are so outrageously 
  wrong with respect to breastfeeding and I'd have to add that so much depends 
  on the midwife's personal story. We all should know how our own experiences 
  play part in our attitudes and understanding of certain 
  situations.Lots of babies are born with little interest in immediate 
  breastfeeding and it seems we increase the stress levels of new mums so much 
  by expecting these babies to latch on within the first hour. I do know there 
  is research around that suggests that the first feed doesn't have to occur in 
  that first hour. Lots of babies like to be at the breast and lick and smell 
  but maybe not latch and suck. I've seen new mums 'attacked' by 2 or more 
  midwives around the 6 hour mark muttering about having to feed, waking 
  sleeping babies, grabbing women's breasts and trying (unsuccessfully) to get 
  baby to latch on. This appears to be a common story in some hospitals, as are 
  repeat BSL's done on an otherwise perfectly healthy newborn. What's the saying 
  - if we keep looking for trouble we'll soon find it? It's also pretty 
  obvious that quite a number of babies born with epidurals are slower to wake 
  and suck - I guess in my mind this is a different situation - again I have no 
  solutions, but I do find it all fascinating. SueMelissa 
  Singer wrote: 
  



Hi all wise women,

I know this is something already widely 
discussed, but at work this morning we were discussing redeveloping our 
breastfeeding policy. A hot debate occurred in relation to timing of 
the first breastfeed. In particular if the baby does not show interest 
in feeding in the first few hours, length of time before we start 
interfering. 6 hours was being tossed around before doing BSL's, NGT 
feeding, gastric lavage etc. I was wondering if anyone had any links 
or references at hand to support allowing the healthy term baby to go longer 
and to have his first breastfeed when he is ready.

Thanks 
Melissa__ NOD32 
1.1454 (20060321) Information __This message was checked by 
NOD32 antivirus system.http://www.nod32.com

RE: [ozmidwifery] tongue tie snip?

[Ken Ward]

Most 
ob's should be able to snip a TT in labour ward. Seen it done many 
times.

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Barbara Glare 
   Chris BrightSent: Thursday, 18 May 2006 2:32 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] tongue tie 
  snip?
  Hi,
  
  The Australian Breastfeeding Association stocks a 
  very fabulous and informative short video on tongue tie made by the Royal 
  Women's Hospital in Melbourne.
  http://www.lrc.asn.au/users/sales/category6_2.htm
  
  With a bit of research, she should be able to get 
  the help she needs.
  
  Barb
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Janet 
Fraser 
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 

Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 1:46 
PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] tongue tie 
snip?

Hi all,
advice for a woman whose 
first baby had a severe tongue tie that was never diagnosed until way too 
late by which time bf had just not worked for her at all. She's pg again and 
looking for support just in case this one has TT as well but has been told 
she can't have it fixed straight after birth but has to go on a waiting list 
to get it done. This makes her pretty anxious after last time's hellish 
experience.
She's in western Sydney. 
Any ideas?
Much 
appreciated!
J
For home birth information 
go to:Joyous Birth Australian home birth network and forums.http://www.joyousbirth.info/Or 
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: [ozmidwifery] perineal massage

[Ken Ward]

Nice 
slow stretching as the head descends. Good nutrition

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Päivi 
  LaukkanenSent: Wednesday, 17 May 2006 7:37 AMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] perineal 
  massage
  Hi everyone,
  
  In my store we sell an organic oil by Weleda for 
  perineal massage. ( almond oil, wheat germ oil, natural essential oils.) 
  Many women seem to think, that if they simply apply this oil, it will prevent 
  tears. I am planning to add some info on perineal massage on our website and 
  also prepare a handout to give with the oil. I would appreciate any good links 
  on this subject and answers to these questions:
  
  What do you consider the main factors, when 
  preventing tears and episiotomies? (other than perineal massage)
  
  Where can I find research on this subject or 
  effectiveness of perineal massage?
  
  Päivi

RE: [ozmidwifery] Mastitis question

[Ken Ward]

Got onto 'kellymom'. They are suggesting you wake baby 2/24 during the day
and 4/24 at night.  This does not sit well with me. Babies need a minium of
6 feeds in 24hrs, and can feed hourly if they want, but I don't believe
waking them is such a good idea, unless there is a reason such as poor
weight gain, jaundice, lack of wet nappies.  Kellymom also states babies
loose 7% of birth weight. They can loose double this, and one should look at
output and baby's behaviour and mum's supply before jumping in. I didn't
bother further with this site.  Maureen

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Vedrana Valčić
Sent: Tuesday, 25 April 2006 3:24 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Mastitis question


Could it be that you came down with both mastitis and some other infection,
which your son caught?
www.kellymom.com is a great site on breastfeeding, if you want to research
further.

Vedrana

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jo Bourne
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 4:57 AM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Mastitis question

My episodes of mastitis got less frequent after the first 3 months but I
probably averaged at least one mastitis every 6 months for the entire time I
was feeding (2.5yrs). Though my later mastitis were generally breast injury
induced rather than infection and easily treated with homeopathics.

At 12:36 PM +1000 25/4/06, Nicole Carver wrote:
Hi,
Normally you should breastfeed from both breasts with mastitis. The only
exception, and I may stand corrected, is strep infection. The breast is very
red, not your typical mastitis. It is very painful and you feel quite ill. I
have not seen mastitis at 22 months. It might be precipitated by something
else, as usually the feeding would be fairly trouble free at that stage, I
would imagine.
When a woman has mastitis the milk needs to be kept moving. Babies are best
for that! Expressing is really just the tip of the ice berg. A little blood
does not hurt. If the baby vomits a little blood there is no harm done.
Obviously if there is a lot it would be best to discontinue for 24 hours or
so. The breast must be emptied though, or you run the risk of abscess
formation.
Sometimes the antibiotics taken by mum will upset the babies stomach.
However, I suppose they are also protecting them to some extent.
Regards,
Nicole.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of sharon
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 12:24 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Mastitis question

where i work we encourage women to express on the side that they are
infected and continue feeding on the other side until the infection clears,
the infection should be treated by antibiotics and if severe admission to
hospital for iv antibugs. if the breastmilk has blood in it we discourage
any breastfeeding whatsoever and get the mother to express all feeds until
the infection passes she then can resume b/feeding when she feels better but
ensure that the breast is always empty after feeding.
regards sharon

- Original Message -
From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Megan  Larry
To: mailto:ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auozmidwifery
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 10:03 AM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Mastitis question

Can a mother pass on her infecton to her breastfeeding child when she has
mastitis?

Its just that I had what to me was obvious mastitis on Sat, quite a decent
case of it, very sore breast, redness, fever, vomiting, quite ill. Still
recovering on Monday when my breastfeeding 22 mth old developed a fever and
vomiting. This morning he is quite recovered but no doubt will need a very
quiet day still.

So, is this a coincidence, or can the child become infected too? We were
both rundown form a busy few weeks, so the rest was well needed, just wanted
it without the misery.

Thanks in advance

Megan


--
Jo Bourne
Virtual Artists Pty Ltd
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Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
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RE: [ozmidwifery] BF videos

[Ken Ward]

It is 
beautiful. Such a pity it doesn't happen in reality. We cannot leave things 
alone, and must try and hurry the process. I have seen many midwives and mums 
wanting to 'get the baby feeding' even 'enlightened' ones. 


  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Ceri  
  KatrinaSent: Tuesday, 25 April 2006 5:36 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] BF 
  videosnot sure of the title, but an awesome video. Babies 
  are so clever!!!We watched it in the early days of our middy training and 
  it was a real eye opener! Very inspiringKatrinaOn 
  25/04/2006, at 1:37 PM, Jo Watson wrote:
  I don't know what it's called, but the one where the freshly 
newborn baby crawls up the mother's abdomen and attaches itself to the 
breast without any help is awesome. Made me cry!Hopefully someone 
else knows the name of it?JoOn 25/04/2006, at 9:59 AM, 
Kristin Beckedahl wrote:
Can 
  anyone recommend a really good BF video..?? I have only seen Follow Me Mum 
  which I liked very much (altho the bub was not newborn?). Are there any 
  other good ones to chase up? Thanks-- This 
  mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or 
  unsubscribe.

RE: [ozmidwifery] Mastitis question

[Ken Ward]

It is at the kellymom site. I was wandering around it, found the b/f bit,
clicked onto the normal course of b/f then onto nursing your newborn. Have
just had another quick look, and other articles seem ok.  It is commonly
accepted in Australia that babies can loose up to 10%, some literature says
15% of birth weight in the first couple of days. This is due to the fluid on
board at birth and small amounts of colrustrum available. I have noticed
that some units are very conservative and comp babies if weight loss is
close to 10%, but to me this is unnecessary if all other factors are ok and
only undermines mum's confidence. I agree that some babies need be woken,
(my last would have starved herself, going up to 14 hrs one night when a
week old), but babies should be treated as individuals, some want frequent
snacks, others like a good feast now and again.  as long as mum's happy,
baby's happy and output good, who cares?  Maureen.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Vedrana Valčić
Sent: Tuesday, 25 April 2006 6:28 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Mastitis question


Could you mail me the link to the article, please? I'm surprised that such
advice didn't come with all the extra info you just provided. I didn't know
about the 7% and 14% birth weight loss, never researched it.

Vedrana

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ken Ward
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 10:12 AM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Mastitis question

Got onto 'kellymom'. They are suggesting you wake baby 2/24 during the day
and 4/24 at night.  This does not sit well with me. Babies need a minium of
6 feeds in 24hrs, and can feed hourly if they want, but I don't believe
waking them is such a good idea, unless there is a reason such as poor
weight gain, jaundice, lack of wet nappies.  Kellymom also states babies
loose 7% of birth weight. They can loose double this, and one should look at
output and baby's behaviour and mum's supply before jumping in. I didn't
bother further with this site.  Maureen

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Vedrana Valčić
Sent: Tuesday, 25 April 2006 3:24 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Mastitis question


Could it be that you came down with both mastitis and some other infection,
which your son caught?
www.kellymom.com is a great site on breastfeeding, if you want to research
further.

Vedrana

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jo Bourne
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 4:57 AM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Mastitis question

My episodes of mastitis got less frequent after the first 3 months but I
probably averaged at least one mastitis every 6 months for the entire time I
was feeding (2.5yrs). Though my later mastitis were generally breast injury
induced rather than infection and easily treated with homeopathics.

At 12:36 PM +1000 25/4/06, Nicole Carver wrote:
Hi,
Normally you should breastfeed from both breasts with mastitis. The only
exception, and I may stand corrected, is strep infection. The breast is very
red, not your typical mastitis. It is very painful and you feel quite ill. I
have not seen mastitis at 22 months. It might be precipitated by something
else, as usually the feeding would be fairly trouble free at that stage, I
would imagine.
When a woman has mastitis the milk needs to be kept moving. Babies are best
for that! Expressing is really just the tip of the ice berg. A little blood
does not hurt. If the baby vomits a little blood there is no harm done.
Obviously if there is a lot it would be best to discontinue for 24 hours or
so. The breast must be emptied though, or you run the risk of abscess
formation.
Sometimes the antibiotics taken by mum will upset the babies stomach.
However, I suppose they are also protecting them to some extent.
Regards,
Nicole.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of sharon
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 12:24 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Mastitis question

where i work we encourage women to express on the side that they are
infected and continue feeding on the other side until the infection clears,
the infection should be treated by antibiotics and if severe admission to
hospital for iv antibugs. if the breastmilk has blood in it we discourage
any breastfeeding whatsoever and get the mother to express all feeds until
the infection passes she then can resume b/feeding when she feels better but
ensure that the breast is always empty after feeding.
regards sharon

- Original Message -
From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Megan  Larry
To: mailto:ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auozmidwifery
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 10:03 AM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Mastitis

RE: [ozmidwifery] Mastitis question

[Ken Ward]

Title: Mastitis question



'They' 
say it can't, but common sense infers that it is possible. We do encourage 
mums to keep on with the b/f, hopefully someone will have the answer. 


  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Megan  
  LarrySent: Tuesday, 25 April 2006 10:34 AMTo: 
  ozmidwiferySubject: [ozmidwifery] Mastitis 
  question
  Can a mother pass on her infecton to her 
  breastfeeding child when she has mastitis? 
  Its just that I had what to me was obvious mastitis 
  on Sat, quite a decent case of it, very sore breast, redness, fever, vomiting, 
  quite ill. Still recovering on Monday when my breastfeeding 22 mth old 
  developed a fever and vomiting. This morning he is quite recovered but no 
  doubt will need a very quiet day still.
  So, is this a coincidence, or can the child become 
  infected too? We were both rundown form a busy few weeks, so the rest was well 
  needed, just wanted it without the misery.
  Thanks in advance 
  Megan 

RE: [ozmidwifery] Options for twins

[Ken Ward]

There 
is a ' woman friendly' doctor at Ferntree Gully. Contact off list for name 
if interested. Maureen

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Kelly @ 
  BellyBellySent: Saturday, 22 April 2006 8:23 AMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Options 
  for twins
  
  Lesley,
  
  I supported a twin 
  vaginal birth at Box Hill hospital. It was such a fight but we did it. If you 
  want to contact me off list then I would be glad to give you any help and 
  advice along the way. I could also pass on details of the mother as I am sure 
  she would be happy to chat to her too.
  
  Best 
  Regards,Kelly 
  ZanteyCreator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions 
  From Conception to ParenthoodBellyBelly Birth 
  Support - 
  http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support
  
  
  
  
  From: 
  owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
  [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] 
  On Behalf Of 
  LesleycsSent: 
  Friday, 21 April 2006 10:42 PMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] Options for 
  twins
  
  
  Dear list,
  
  
  
  I hope you can suggest a few options fora 
  friend's daughter who is pregnant with twins and looking 
  forwomen-friendly care. Her holisticbackground combined 
  withinitial visits toGP andobstetricianhasleft 
  her disturbed, defiant,and waryofgetting caught up in the 
  system. But she is unsure of her options. 
  
  
  
  
  I've given her some generalinformation about 
  multiples (from 'Midwifery Matters', UK Midwifery archives, this list, AIMS, 
  'Birth Matters',details of MIPP etc.) together with some 
  very-much-needed positive twin birth stories - all of which has affirmed her 
  strong desire tokeep this pregnancy and birth normal. 
  
  
  
  
  She lives in outer S.E. suburbs of Melbourne. 
  Isopen to independent midwifery care, although money is an issue. 
  Also no private health insurance. She's feels limited in her options and 
  pushed to obstetric care by default, and is askingfornames of 
  women-friendly practitioners. (Heard there was someone out Warrigal 
  way?) 
  
  
  
  What are her options? As 'high risk' does 
  shequalify for any midwifery care programs? Are there any decent 
  public shared careoptions in the area?And if she ispushed to 
  find the money forprivate care how wouldthe cost 
  ofindependent midwifery carecompare with an obstetrician? 
  
  
  
  
  Any suggestions most welcome at this 
  stage.
  
  
  
  Many thanks,
  
  Lesley

RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: International Midwives Day Dinner

[Ken Ward]

Sounds 
lovely, but a bit far to go. Is there anyone in Melbourne who would like a 
get-to-gether? 

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Barbara 
  StokesSent: Wednesday, 19 April 2006 5:06 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] Re: 
  International Midwives Day Dinner
  
  Dear 
  Midwives,
  We are organising a dinner to 
  celebrate International Midwives Day, 5th May 06 at Eat Your 
  Greens Eugowra, 6.30pm for 
  7pm. Cost is $30.00 each. Guest Speaker is NUM Forbes, Deb Wilden.
  If you are interested in coming, 
  please phone the Parkes Maternity Unit: 
  68611 228 or fax: 
  68621193.
  We are hoping for a large area 
  attendance, anyone interested may attend.
  RSVP this week 
  please.
  Thankyou,
  Barbara 
  Stokes 
  Parkes

RE: [ozmidwifery] fractured pelvis

[Ken Ward]

No, a 
vaginal birth is very possible. It all depends on where the fractures occurred, 
if they actually involved the in/outlets. They rarely do. 

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Kristin 
  BeckedahlSent: Tuesday, 18 April 2006 5:54 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] fractured 
  pelvis
  
  What is the 
  likelihood of CS with a woman whose 22 and has a Hx of fracturing her pelvis 
  in 3 places in a car accident?
  Would a vaginal 
  birth be totally ruled out?-- This mailing list is 
  sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or 
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RE: [ozmidwifery] fractured pelvis

[Ken Ward]

X-rays 
taken at the time would show the breaks, and would now show the healed bone. 


  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Kristin 
  BeckedahlSent: Tuesday, 18 April 2006 7:00 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] fractured 
  pelvis
  
  How could she confirm this?
  
  

From: "Ken Ward" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: 
ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auTo: 
ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: 
[ozmidwifery] fractured pelvisDate: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 18:29:39 
+1000

No, a vaginal birth is very possible. It all depends on where the 
fractures occurred, if they actually involved the in/outlets. They rarely 
do. 

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Kristin 
  BeckedahlSent: Tuesday, 18 April 2006 5:54 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] fractured 
  pelvis
  
  What is the 
  likelihood of CS with a woman whose 22 and has a Hx of fracturing her 
  pelvis in 3 places in a car accident?
  Would a vaginal 
  birth be totally ruled out?-- This mailing list 
  is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe. 
-- This mailing list is sponsored 
  by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or 
  unsubscribe. 

RE: [ozmidwifery] fractured pelvis

[Ken Ward]

Why 
are we worrying about a vbac? Has this woman already had a previous 
c/s?

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Kristin 
  BeckedahlSent: Tuesday, 18 April 2006 9:10 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] fractured 
  pelvis
  
  Yes! My thoughts exactly Brenda! :)
  
  

From: "brendamanning" 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: 
ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auTo: 
ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: 
[ozmidwifery] fractured pelvisDate: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 18:50:43 
+1000



Kristin,
No never rule a VBAC 
out, always consider the individual circumstances. It cost nothing to try ! 
You can always opt out if there are any signs of problems.
With kind regardsBrenda Manning www.themidwife.com.au

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kristin Beckedahl 
  To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 5:53 
  PM
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] fractured 
  pelvis
  
  
  What is the 
  likelihood of CS with a woman whose 22 and has a Hx of fracturing her 
  pelvis in 3 places in a car accident?
  Would a vaginal 
  birth be totally ruled out?-- This mailing list 
  is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or 
unsubscribe.-- This mailing list is 
  sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or 
  unsubscribe. 

RE: [ozmidwifery] de midwife course in wa

[Ken Ward]

Socialogoly or anthropology would also be good for mid practice.  Maureen

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jennifairy
Sent: Thursday, 13 April 2006 6:33 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] de midwife course in wa


sharon wrote:

 thats right i have done three year mid and now doing one yar nursing
 over 2 years while working as a reg midwife so i have a double degree.
 i belive that it should be 4 years and finish with a double degree.
 regards sharon

Yeah, personal preference again.
I did the 3 year BMid in SA,  if Id *had* to do the extra year to add
nursing I prolly would have looked elsewhere (or written even more
letters to have it changed). The problem with a 'double degree' is that
it serves to maintain the fallacy that midwifery is not a distinct
profession, that nursing has to be in there somewhere. If we are going
to have double degrees with midwifery involved then I would prefer the
'other' degree was political science, or business studies, or something
that teaches one how to set up sustainable community structures.
Something that moves midwifery out of the mindset of a sub-species of
nursing, anyway.
Just my thorts
cheers
--

Jennifairy Gillett RM

Midwife in Private Practice

Women's Health Teaching Associate

ITShare volunteer -- Santos Project Co-ordinator
ITShare SA Inc - http://itshare.org.au/
ITShare SA provides computer systems to individuals  groups, created
from donated hardware and opensource software



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RE: [ozmidwifery] Article: Premmie Babies 'Bed Blocking'

[Ken Ward]

Hear 
hear. Although not prem. baby took 40 mins to get a heart beat, 
ventilated. Can't control his own temperature, swallow, etc. Needs 24 
hr care. No awareness. No life. Maureen.

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Susan 
  CudlippSent: Sunday, 2 April 2006 7:50 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Article: 
  Premmie Babies 'Bed Blocking'
  I have to agree with both Gloria and Nicole 
  here. While the reporting of this sounds insensitive and many premmies 
  do just fine, the reality is that the extremely premature babies do not have 
  good outcomes, suffer an innordinate ammount of painful procedures, and often 
  end up with enormous long term disabilities and suffering which has an impact 
  on the whole family. I haveseveral friends with such children and 
  their lives, while precious, have been extremely hard, usually ending 
  young. The parents are left bereft but often relieved when it is finally 
  all over. If this offends some, I do not mean to - just telling you what 
  I have seen and experienced first hand.
  The trouble is, of course that we do not have a 
  crystal ball to know which are going to do well and which are not, but it 
  horrifies me that so many very sick babies are kept alive when nature would 
  have decreed otherwise - "just because we can".
  The cost factor is enormous and unjustifiable, 
  but the true cost is in the suffering of the child and it's family. 
  There is so much money used in keeping these tiny babies alive, but then they 
  are given back to their families who have to get on with coping with the 
  result, and believe me- there is precious little funding or support to help 
  with the cost of the next 15, 25, or 55 years.
  I, for one, am quite pleased to hear that 
  medicine is questioning the wisdom of resuscitating extremely premature 
  infants - too much harm has already been done in thequest of pushing the 
  boundaries of medical science.
  To quote one friend, a mother, who wrote her 
  story very eloquently: 
  "What happened to all the help given to 
  keepmy sonalive - modern up-to-date technology that saved his life 
  and kept him alive?. Once we were shown the door we were on our own. 
  No more grand technology - because it is wasted on people with a disability - 
  because there is no money, no money, no money"
  
  This boydied at age 19, after a life of 
  total dependence for all his needs. He had been born at 24 weeks 
  gestation.
  
  Sue
  
  "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do 
  nothing"Edmund Burke
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Gloria 
Lemay 
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 

Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2006 6:47 
AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Article: 
Premmie Babies 'Bed Blocking'

Wise words, Nicole. We all have to look 
at the reality of medical costs that are skyrocketing and never-ending 
technology that we can buy but can't afford. Gloria in 
Canada

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Nicole Carver 
  To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
  
  Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2006 3:03 
  PM
  Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Article: 
  Premmie Babies 'Bed Blocking'
  
  How sad. A more valid point to discuss is the suffering that some 
  of these babies go through, which should be weighed against chance of 
  survival and later quality of life. There is a lot that is done to these 
  babies to keep them alive, that must must be incredibly painful and 
  distressing. Good palliative care for some, would be far kinder in their 
  brief lives than intercostal tubes, arterial lines, ventilation, gastric 
  tubes, tape all over their face which pulls off their skin when changed, 
  noisy, scary environmentsetc. 
  
  However, what a heart rending decision to make. I am greatful for 
  my three healthy children, born vaginally at term. No miscarriages or even 
  any scares.How precious life is.
  
  Perhaps there should be more done in the 
  prevention of prematurity, such as reducing the stress of pregnant women 
  in lower socio-economic groups by running support groups and providing one 
  to one midwifery care, and more intervention to help women stop 
  smoking.
  
  Nicole.
  
-Original Message-From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Kelly @ 
BellyBellySent: Saturday, April 01, 2006 10:19 
PMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: 
[ozmidwifery] Article: Premmie Babies 'Bed 
Blocking'

This was apparently on Sky… 
makes you sick to the stomach…

Fury Over 
Baby Comments Updated: 14:38, Monday March 27, 2006 Doctors 
have provoked controversy by suggesting 

RE: [ozmidwifery] Midwifery troubles in NZ

[Ken Ward]

Title: Message



I 
would like to see a list of babies dying in medical care. It is awful, but 
things do happen. We had a case where a young mum was told it would be 
better for her breech baby to born by C/S. The baby died. So C/S need not 
'save' the baby. Also, if that's the total number of incidents in that 
time frame, then surely the stats aren't too bad. What else was involved in the 
cases? Why aren't Drs errors published? Maureen

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of B  
  GSent: Monday, 20 March 2006 9:31 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] Midwifery 
  troubles in NZ
  
  


  
  
FYI, just 
when we are hoping for reform here there is this tragic report from NZ. 
Barb



This article is owned by, or has been licensed to, 
the New Zealand Herald. You may not reproduce, publish, electronically 
archive or transmit this article in any manner without the prior written 
consent of the New Zealand Herald. To make a copyright clearance 
inquiry, please click here.
  
  


  


  
  

  
  

  
Pete 
  Hodgson
Hodgson argues against review of 
maternity services 
20.03.06 
4.20pm
Health 
Minister Pete Hodgson says a review of maternity services would only 
delay improvements being made in the sector. National Party 
health spokesman Tony Royal today renewed his call for an independent 
audit of maternity services following a report of another baby's death 
being blamed on midwife care. The parents of the child born at 
Auckland's Middlemore Hospital in an emergency caesarean operation were 
reportedly told midwives had misread a fetal heart rate monitor. 
The child died seven hours after the caesarean. The case 
follows criticism of health workers following reports on the deaths of 
three other babies -- two by a coroner and one by Health and Disability 
Commissioner Ron Paterson. The child's parents -- Heather and 
Alan Phillips -- are now calling for an inquiry into maternity and 
midwifery care. Mr Ryall said the problem was not going to go 
away and Mr Hodgson needed to get the review started so problems could 
be fixed. "Every month there are more frightening incidents 
coming to light, and more professional groups calling for change." 
Mr Hodgson said a review of maternity services would delay 
improvements being developed by professionals. "It would be easy 
for all involved -- including me -- to call for a review and take some 
of the political heat out of the maternity issue," he said. "But 
while it would be easy it would also be counter-productive." The 
Health Ministry was talking with professional bodies in maternity 
service including midwives, doctors and nurses focusing on improving 
services through better coordination between Leader Maternity Care and 
hospital services. "The ministry and the maternity sector are 
taking this approach because they know action is needed now -- not after 
a drawn-out review process." Mr Hodgson pointed out that 
National MP Paul Hutchison had previously been reported saying he did 
not think a review was necessary. Dr Hutchison told NZPA that he 
agreed with Mr Ryall but wanted the Government to act on the 1999 
maternity review which he said had been ignored. "Due to the 
increasing concerns about maternity care I would agree with Tony that a 
full review is undertaken now -- but great note should be taken of that 
report from 1999." The hospital involved in the latest case is 
waiting until the Accident Compensation Corporation has reported its 
decision before commenting. The New Zealand Herald newspaper 
reported key failures in the baby's death were midwives' miss-reading of 
a fetal heart rate monitor and a fetal blood-acidity test was 
unnecessary in the circumstances and wasted time. A hospital 
document described the events surrounding the birth and poor follow-up 
with the parents as a "multi-system failure". Other recent 
controversies involving midwife care included the death of a baby in 
February 2001 after an undiagnosed breech birth at home, another 
undiagnosed breech birth incident in February 2003 and a baby who died 
in November 2003 after emergency caesarean and mismanaged labour at 
North Shore Hospital. In Dunedin today a High Court jury was to 
be asked to decide whether midwife Jennifer Joan Crawshaw, 44, is guilty 
of the 

RE: [ozmidwifery] Babies Sleep Again...

[Ken WArd]

DAAIRY FARMERS MAY MILK AT THE SAME TIMES EACH DAY, BUT CALVES FEED ALL THE
TIME, WHENEVER THEY ARE HUNGRY.
AS HUMAN BABIES NEED TO. WHO IS HUNGRY AT THE SAME TIME EVERY DAY? ALL
ANIMALS FEED AS REQUIRED AND I AM YET TO SEE ONE WITH A WATCH. MAUREEN

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Kelly Zantey
Sent: Saturday, 18 February 2006 3:47 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Babies  Sleep Again...


Please ignore this post if it's innapropriate, but bit of a
controversial discussion going on in the forums, wondering if anyone out
there is up to replying at all?
http://bellybelly.com.au/forums/viewtopic.php?p=381206

Would be nice to have some other pro-gentle back-up!

Kelly Zantey
www.bellybelly.com.au
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RE: [ozmidwifery] telemetry ctg machine?

[Ken WArd]

I can't remember

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Julie Garratt
Sent: Saturday, 4 February 2006 12:08 AM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] telemetry ctg machine?


Wow, The bath, what brand was it?
- Original Message - 
From: Ken WArd [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 5:29 PM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] telemetry ctg machine?


I have also used one in the bath

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Kathy
 McCarthy-Bushby
 Sent: Thursday, 2 February 2006 11:15 PM
 To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
 Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] telemetry ctg machine?


 I find using telemitry units helpful for women planning vbac birth, where
 the hospital policy requires the woman to be continually monitored in
 labour, but the telemitry unit allows the woman to be mobile as well. I
 guess it could be considered a compromise.
 kathy
 - Original Message -
 From: Julie Garratt [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
 Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 4:01 PM
 Subject: [ozmidwifery] telemetry ctg machine?


 Hi wise midwives,
 Do any of you know any compelling reasons or
 research on the advantages or disadvantages of using telemetry ctg 
 machines
 as apposed to the usual ones? I'm trying to get my head around whether 
 they
 are a good or bad thing to have in a practice setting and how having one
 avaliable for use changes how midwives care for women in labour.
 Thank you, Julie:)



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RE: [ozmidwifery] bounty packs

[Ken WArd]

You can request material not be included in the packs, and this I would
certainly have a problem with, also. Bounty really should notify when
additions are to be included, and give people a chance to comment. Maureen

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Janet Fraser
Sent: Sunday, 5 February 2006 7:42 AM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] bounty packs


That's utterly shocking, Rachel. There's enough crap from multinationals and
no real information about bf or birth but to add that rubbish in merely adds
insult to injury.
J
- Original Message -
From: wump fish [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2006 7:27 AM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] bounty packs


 I have a problem with giving out bounty packs as it is but...

 Opened one yesterday and noticed an addition hidden inside. Castlemaine

 have produced a 'dad's pack'. It includes: earplugs (so you can ignore
your
 crying baby); a face mask and gloves for nappy changing; stickers saying
'I
 changed my first nappy' etc; and BEER VOUCHERS

 I cannot believe that queensland health (committed to 'community health')
is
 handing this message out to parents. This seems so wrong on many levels:
 first, not all women have a male partner - should they get a 'dad pack',
 could cause upset. What message are we giving fathers about their role?
How
 many problems are caused by irresponsible alcohol consumption - health,
 social etc. Is it just me? Or do others think this is totally
inappropriate?

 Rachel

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RE: [ozmidwifery] telemetry ctg machine?

[Ken WArd]

I have also used one in the bath

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Kathy
McCarthy-Bushby
Sent: Thursday, 2 February 2006 11:15 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] telemetry ctg machine?


I find using telemitry units helpful for women planning vbac birth, where
the hospital policy requires the woman to be continually monitored in
labour, but the telemitry unit allows the woman to be mobile as well. I
guess it could be considered a compromise.
kathy
- Original Message -
From: Julie Garratt [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 4:01 PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] telemetry ctg machine?


Hi wise midwives,
 Do any of you know any compelling reasons or
research on the advantages or disadvantages of using telemetry ctg machines
as apposed to the usual ones? I'm trying to get my head around whether they
are a good or bad thing to have in a practice setting and how having one
avaliable for use changes how midwives care for women in labour.
Thank you, Julie:)



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RE: [ozmidwifery] Resounding failure of active labour management

[Ken WArd]

I met 
have many women who want to be induced., some as early as 36 weeks. These are 
women who are experiencing discomfort, pain, partner going away, support person 
available at this time, sick of being pregnant, have an important event coming 
up [other child's bv'day, Xmas] Lots of not very good reasons. You can explain 
until you are blue in the face, paint the worse scenes try and delay them. 
They can be very determined. I had one women go to another town for 
induction when her doctor refused. It is not always the doctors or MW's fault. 
Some women are very determined and will go to all sorts of lengths to get an iol 
or c/s. Women will present several times, they will ring and are known to try 
and induce labour themselves. 
as a 
mid student we had an antenatal in patient attempt her own arm. I was told 
that active labour management was introduced becauseDublin hospital had so 
many bookings that they had to manage the amount of time each women spent in the 
delivery room, speed things up. 
Maureen

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Janet 
  FraserSent: Wednesday, 1 February 2006 1:26 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Resounding 
  failure of "active labour management"
  Rachel,
  I only hear this from health 
  professionals. I don't hear it from women, not even the most mainstream hospy 
  birthing mamas with whom I deal. It's a very small percentage of women who 
  embrace this technology, and an even smaller number who knowingly embrace it. 
  If you read mainstream birth stories they usually start with "My baby was 10 
  days overdue so my hospital/surgeon said I had to be induced." The women are 
  generally scared, although normal physiological birth scares them too, but 
  have no idea of the massive risks involved. When it all goes pearshaped, as it 
  so often does, the hospital/surgeon and those around them tell the woman she 
  is defective and can't birth "properly". It sometimesleads to ERC solely 
  for fear as women are so shocked by the assault of active management that they 
  seek to control the process in future by choosing surgery without the horror 
  of labour under these circumstances. Of course, the profiting surgeon is only 
  too happy to oblige.
  
  Apart from women transferred 
  from BCs to labour wards, the most traumatised women I see are those who have 
  had active management foisted on them by hospital policies and the belief that 
  you can't say no. Not that saying no helps women in most hospitals anyway, you 
  only need to read those same birth stories to hear that also. Whatever MWs in 
  hospitals are being asked about induction and active management, women are 
  really not understanding what it is and I almost never hear of a woman who 
  *wants* to be induced, they just don't know they don't have 
  to be. Most women now believe that without interventions like induction and 
  ARM that babies won't come and that women don't know how to go into 
  labour.
  
  Tragic but something I see 
  all the time. Try some mainstream birth forums to read the same story over and 
  over and over again.
  http://www.bubhub.com.au/community/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=95
  http://members.essentialbaby.com.au/index.php?s=0414c493308393a14870b1d37c5c09ffshowforum=49
  J

RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: Waterbirths at Monash BC -for Pinky

[Ken WArd]

I believe they are doing water births at the angliss,

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Kelly @
BellyBelly
Sent: Wednesday, 25 January 2006 5:03 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: Waterbirths at Monash BC -for Pinky


Pinky,

I supported a woman having her waterbirth at Monash about 6 months ago - it
was a great experience for all, midwife was lovely and I know she is still
there - I saw her during an ante-natal visit with another woman. Email me
off list if you want specifics - I didn't get the initial email so I don't
know what has been asked!

Best Regards,

Kelly Zantey
Director, www.bellybelly.com.au  www.toys4tikes.com.au
Gentle Solutions For Conception, Pregnancy, Birth  Baby
Australian Little Tikes Specialists

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cate Tischler
Sent: Wednesday, 25 January 2006 12:14 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Cc: pinky mckay
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Re: Waterbirths at Monash BC -for Pinky

Hi Pinky,

I birthed at the Monash BC in May 04.  I chose to birth there as I wanted a
waterbirth (and didn't know what I do now about homebirth!).   When it came
the time i was in labour there weren't many bc midwives (7 out of 12 had
quit due to the move, can't blame them) and i could only have a waterbirth
with a bc midwife in attendance between the hours of 9am and 3pm.  Of course
i laboured at night and no longer had the option of waterbirth.
I thought this may have been due to initial teething problems and lack of bc
staff, but i spoke to a woman just the other day who experienced the same
thing just 3 months ago.  She couldn't birth in water because she had a
labour ward midwife looking after her.
Your daughter might want to find out when the bc midwives are actually
available.  It can be rather distressing if you're going through the bc only
to find out that there's no staff available to attend you under that model
of care!

kind regards,
Cate
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RE: [ozmidwifery] Guthrie/PKU test

[Ken WArd]

The 
new born screen picks up more than PKU. ait also checks for thyroid problems, 
cystic fibrous, plus other inherent diseases that if picked up early can save a 
baby's life, or dramatically improve a persons future. I have cared for children 
with various problems that can now be screened for, and if they had have been 
detected they would not have been developmentally delayed. It's a bit like 
having a pap smear, the vast majority are normal. Or breast screening when 
you are older, [although I have elected not to have a breast 
screen.] I am the first to support parents not wanting hep B or Vit. 
K; but I would encourage the NBST as there does not have to be a history 'in the 
family' Maureen

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Janet 
  FraserSent: Monday, 23 January 2006 3:54 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 
  Guthrie/PKU test
  That didn't hurt my decision 
  making process ; )but it was more the low likelihood of PKU given that 
  I'm not Nordic. Other countries are keeping it on file too as I know someone 
  from South Africa who had a missing relative's remains identified using his 
  heel prick test from 20 years earlier!
  : )
  J
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
brendamanning 
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 

Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 3:50 
PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Guthrie/PKU 
test

Janet,

Was it because you 
found out thatthe Australian Govt are storing your babies DNA without 
your consent for future reference ?

With kind regardsBrenda Manning www.themidwife.com.au

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Janet 
  Fraser 
  To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
  
  Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 1:18 
  PM
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] Guthrie/PKU 
  test
  
  Hi all,
  I need some balanced 
  info with evidence on this test. I chose to not have it for compelling 
  reasons which I can no longer find! Possibly AIMS info or something 
  similar. Any thoughts?
  TIA,
  J
  Joyous Birth Home 
  Birth Forum - a world first!http://www.joyousbirth.info/forums/
  
  Attending births is like 
  growing roses. You have to marvel at the ones that just open up and bloom 
  at the first kiss of the sun but you wouldn't dream of pulling open the 
  petals of the tightly closed buds and forcing them to blossom to your time 
  line. 
  
  ~Gloria 
  Lemay~
  
  
  
  

RE: [ozmidwifery] Midwife near Lilydale?

[Ken WArd]

Yes. An ex workmate of mine, give me a ring and I'll give you 
her phone no. 97770605
Maureen

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Tania 
  SmallwoodSent: Monday, 23 January 2006 4:18 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] Midwife near 
  Lilydale?
  
  
  Is there an IPM out there near 
  Lilydale? Have a previous client who has moved there, looking for a 
  homebirth, not sure when…
  
  Cheers
  
  Tania
  x
  --No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by 
  AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.21/236 - 
  Release Date: 20/01/2006

RE: [ozmidwifery] IV Synto for 3rd stage

[Ken WArd]

Proberly where it should sit for a normal birth. But when it is advisable to
give synto, then I guess you should flush the line.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Kylie Holden
Sent: Sunday, 22 January 2006 12:14 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: [ozmidwifery] IV Synto for 3rd stage


Hi all

I'm a Mid student (who has finally finished all her birth
requirements...yay!) and this issue has only just come up for me over the
last week or two.  For the first time in two years, a midwife I was working
with pointed out the importance of flushing through the synto if you have
given it IV, if there was no drip running to flush it through.

This obviously makes sense, because if you don't flush it, the synto will
just sit in the J loop or IV line.  However, I had never actually seen a
midwife do this before.  Over the next few days I asked a few midwives what
they do, and the responses I got ranged from Why on earth would you need to
do that? to Yes, of course you need to flush it!

Any thoughts on this topic?

Kylie

_
New year, new job – there's more than 100,00 jobs at SEEK
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RE: [ozmidwifery] Surrounding the birthing mother

[Ken WArd]

I'm sorry people couldn't understand what I said. I am the one who told
women planning to birth where I was working, before the BC to ensure their
support people were fully aware of what they wanted and strong enough to see
it through. I suggested home births to those I could see would have a
horrible time with us. I left there because of the intervention, lack of
respect and rigid protocols. I welcomed doulas, they made my life easier,
knowing both the woman and her partner were supported, and I found that they
also supported me. I have suggested doulas to women who do not have an
extensive network of friends, as one does need continuous support and
support people do need a break and the midwife may be busy.  A group of
support women, who are there for the support they can give are great. But I
have had to ask people to leave, one in particular who turned up, uninvited
with her 3 mth baby in huge pram. She proceeded to 'take-over' telling the
labouring woman not to be active etc. I was thanked by the client. Then
there is the mother, mother-in-law, sister, girlfriend encouraging the
client to lie down, ask for pain relief etc. Talk about all and sundry,
ining and outing. All very distracting and in lots of cases undermining the
clients faith in her body. I have been heartily thanked for not doing
anything, just leaving the client and her support crew to get on with it. I
got very disillusioned. After supporting women through pregnancy, empowering
them, welcoming any one they wished to bring, some still tended to trust the
'doctor', agreeing to unnecessary intervention such as IOLetc.  The belief
that labour can take as long as it needs also got me into trouble. After
working for hours, supporting, being there, worrying etc, I got a message
that I had left her 'too long' and should have 'done something'. This woman
had a lovely vaginal birth, beautiful baby and home next day.( she had
complained).  I really don't care who comes, or how many, as long as they
are there for the woman, and do,t push her partner out. Sometimes you have
to encourage people to help, getting water, massaging, whatever.
Addit, I also welcomed children, I found they can be very helpful, and had a
lovely experience with a two year old, as she watched her baby brother
birthing in the bath. I believe the birthing woman needs to labour and birth
in a manner that is right for her. If I get signals that she is feeling
uncomfortable, if it is oblivious that labour is being affected negatively
by an 'onlooker', then it is my responsibility to do something. Also if the
room is so crowded you can't move, there may need be a roster set up.  One
of my points was that a crowd is not necessary in the room, but may be vital
outside. To keep unwanted out.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Philippa Scott
Sent: Friday, 6 January 2006 7:34 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Surrounding the birthing mother


I admit, I do get a bit cheesed when they turn up with 101 friends, they
chose to birth at the BC because of the non-interference approach. They are
suppose to trust us, but obliviously some don't. Our repeat customers don't
tend too,

I don't think it is all about trust. Some times it's about the different
things that each person brings to the birth for that woman.
As a mum talking, I had my mum, sister, DH  best friend at my first but
none of them new anything about birth in the current hospital environment.
(Nor did I). And it was a terrible birth experience that lead me down my
current path. The second time I did but I choose to have DH  Doula, with
Mum there until we left for Hospital. This worked for me, I was S*^t scared
of going to hospital (I knew a lot of the midwives there but not all like
doula's and are prepared to use expectant management happily and that's what
I wanted). I actually wanted a friend there too who had VBAC'd before but a
family death prevented it. I honestly did not trust that I would get the
care that I wanted. We don't have a BC or HB yet. I also was aware that if
it happened to be busy I would not get first class care, I would not get as
much time from the midwife as I might have wanted and that might have
affected things. And it was my birth so I did not give a hoot who's nose was
put out because I had people with me. I just wanted my team to work together
around me. The people I had hand picked would do that, I could not speak for
the midwife assigned to me on the night. Don't get me wrong I spend a great
deal of time fighting for one-to-one midwifery care and believe in the
midwifery model with my whole heart. I will one day be a midwife. But I had
no guarantees that anyone I knew and supported me would be there.

As a Doula, I am there for mum and dad. I know that when I am there I often
get the best part of what should be a midwifes role. The support. I know
that that cheeses some midwives off. But 8 out of 10 times the midwives 

RE: [ozmidwifery] Surrounding the birthing mother

[Ken WArd]

My guess. When they refused to leave, security would be called. Seriously,
how many women truly want all those people around them when they are trying
to with draw into themselves. Distraction can stop labour, although I have
personally been with women who have had the cast of Ben Hur present, with no
probs. Better to have a couple of strong women who can defend the door and
keep unwanteds out. I have had women turn up, surrounded by other women, so
All I could do was check bubs heart rate. Facing away from the midwife while
having a waterbirth is also a good way to prevent fiddling. I didn't know
bub was out till mum lifted him out of the water, and that's the way to do
it. I admit, I do get a bit cheesed when they turn up with 101 friends, they
chose to birth at the BC because of the non-interference approach. They are
suppose to trust us, but obliviously some don't. Our repeat customers don't
tend too,

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Gloria Lemay
Sent: Friday, 6 January 2006 2:57 PM
To: undisclosed-recipients:; undisclosed-recipients:;
undisclosed-recipients:; undisclosed-recipients:; @uniserve.com
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Surrounding the birthing mother


Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 11:16:27 -0600
   From: ICAN Manitoba
Subject: Looking for Change

Hi all
My question is - what would happen if women started showing up at the
hospital with many many women surrounding them - I mean families of women -
aunts, grammas, mothers, sisters, cousins, best friends, adopted family,
doulas, midwives - each woman entering the hosptial with I don't know 20-30
women encircling her.  Post menopausal women who are not afraid.  Young
women who don't yet know what to fear.  How long would it be before women
chose not to take the trip with that crowd - but rather instead chose to
stay at home enclosed in their warm and caring and loving and supportive
arms?

What would happen??

I know on some level this is a fantasitcal idea - but think about
it.  If we
each had women who cared so deeply for us that they were willing to truely
go to bat for us - how many unncessary episiotomies, epidurals, forceps
deliveries, cesarean sections would be performed??

I sense the time is ripe for MAJOR change to take place.  I am tired to the
bone of attending women who are abused..  whose babies are traumatized and
beaten in the name of medical righteousness because the hospitals only know
one way to identify normal.

What would happen?

Jamie

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RE: [ozmidwifery] vasa previa

[Ken WArd]

We are 
talking about blood vessels crossing in front of the baby's head, ie presenting. 
Blood vessels in the membranes aren't a big deal, but when they are presenting 
expect massive haemorrhage, as with placenta previa. Obliviously the cases 
cited were not vasa previa, or the vessel would have been torn 


  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Melissa 
  SingerSent: Tuesday, 20 December 2005 8:18 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] vasa 
  previa
  Hi Janet,
  
  I probably have seen about 10 unknown vasa 
  previa post birth. All laboured without incident. Two of those 
  werealso ARM's by doctors speeding up the birth process, and only 
  realised oncethe placenta was delivered Very lucky doctors 
  if you ask me!
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Janet 
Fraser 
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 

Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 1:26 
PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] vasa 
previa

Thanks, Kate. It seemed 
extreme to me but it's really hard to find studies on. This is in the 
international foundation's website. They have forums too.
http://ivpf.org/
J

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kate Reynolds 
  To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 4:07 
  PM
  Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] vasa 
  previa
  
  
  Hi 
Janet,
  I’d be very surprised if the fatality 
  rate is so high for undiagnosed vasa praevia. I have only ever seen one 
  responsible for an FDIU at term when SROM’d at home, and I have seen many 
  placentae (?30 - 40) post-birth with massive vessels running through the 
  membranes without incident. In many of those seen, the membranes 
  tore all the way along side the edge of the vessel. I guess it’s a case of 
  if we know about it, are we obliged to avoid any risk. I think the 
  fatality stats are only relevant when the vessel actually tears but it 
  would seem there are many that never rupture. I have also seen it 
  successfully diagnosed once ruptured and saved by crash c/s on a couple of 
  occasions (obviously in a tertiary referral delivery 
  suite).
  
  Cheers,
  Kate

RE: [ozmidwifery] CF screening

[Ken WArd]

The 
article is great, and I wish I'd had it for antenatal visits. So many women 
think if they have all the tests they'll have a ok baby. We pushed the 
tests, even though we were supposed to be low intervention. Have the tests 
if you want, as Robyn says, it doesn't mean you have to terminate. Can 
anyone tell us if there is pressure following a positive 
result?

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Judy 
  ChapmanSent: Sunday, 4 December 2005 3:13 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] CF 
  screening
  This article on the birthinternational site is good for decisions re 
  downs, I am sure it could be extrapolated to CF. 
  http://www.birthinternational.com/articles/dietsch01.html
  Cheers
  JudyRobyn Dempsey 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  



Who says that because testing is available, 
that you have to terminate?
The testing allows choice.
My sister has made friends who have children 
with CF, they knew they carried the gene and took the attitude " I know what 
to do with CF kids, it doesn't bother me".
On! ce again, I read judgment.

Testing allows choice.the choice to 
terminate, or the choice to prepare for a child with extra 
needs.

Robyn D
  
  
  
  Do you Yahoo!?Yahoo! 
  Music: Vote on Who's Next and see your favourite band 
live

RE: [ozmidwifery] info needed please

[Ken WArd]

No stats, but we asked every woman antenatally about domestic violence and
sexual abuse. I think people are becoming aware of how these can affect a
woman during pregnancy and birth. Intervention offered to anyone who wanted
it.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Belinda
Sent: Friday, 2 December 2005 7:59 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: [ozmidwifery] info needed please



I wonder if my email asking for Barb Vernons contacts details got through,?

I also would like to know if anyone has references regarding statistics
of domestic violence in pregnancy, mortality in pregancy due to domestic
violence?
Also a bit harder maybe; references or literature on funding allocated
to obstetric units and funding allocated to prevention, support etc of
domestic violence
thank you Belinda


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RE: [ozmidwifery] Interesting article sure to cause some ethical debate

[Ken WArd]

I 
wonder what all those people with Down Syndrome and other problems would 
say

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of 
  sharonSent: Friday, 2 December 2005 7:59 AMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 
  Interesting article sure to cause some ethical debate
  i would also have to agree with that last 
  statement as my sons girlfriend has this disease. he knows that she may not be 
  alive when she is older and they need to enjoy each other now.
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Nicole Carver 
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 

Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 11:31 
PM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Interesting 
article sure to cause some ethical debate

How sad. If you asked a person with cystic fibrosis whether their 
life had been worth living, even if it is shortened, I wonder what they 
would say? 
Nicole.

  -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Helen and 
  GrahamSent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 6:32 PMTo: 
  ozmidwiferySubject: [ozmidwifery] Interesting article sure to 
  cause some ethical debate
  
  http://www.abc.net.au/health/thepulse/s1520191.htm
  Screening for cystic fibrosis carriers
  by Peter 
  LavellePublished 01/12/2005
  

  
  Every year 70 babies are born in Australia with cystic fibrosis. The 
  child suffers serious lung and digestive problems - they don't manufacture 
  a vital protein, which causes secretions to become very sticky and their 
  lungs and pancreas to literally 'gum up'. The lungs become susceptible to 
  infection and digestion doesn't work propery.
  Treatment is much more effective than it was 20years ago. Most 
  children with cystic fibrosis now can expect to survive into adulthood. 
  But the average life expectancy is still only in the mid thirties.
  Cystic fibrosis is an inherited condition, but a child has to have an 
  abnormal gene from both parents to get it. When both parents are 
  'carriers' of the abnormal gene, there is a one in four chance of this 
  happening.
  About one person in 25 in Australia is a carrier. About one in 2,500 
  kids will be born with the condition.
  At the moment, carriers aren't identified by testing. Instead, newborn 
  babies are routinely screened for the condition (that's how most new cases 
  are diagnosed). Only then do most parents become aware they are carriers. 
  Parents are then routinely offered prenatal testing of a foetus in any 
  subsequent pregnancy and they have the option of then terminating that 
  pregnancy. But it's too late to do anything about the first child.
  There is a test to identify carriers of a cystic fibrosis gene. It's 
  fairly reliable (with an 85 per cent accuracy rate), and it involves a 
  painless cheek swab. But it's generally not offered to Australian couples 
  unless there's a family history of the condition. The trouble is, most 
  carriers don't know they are carriers, and have no history of the 
  condition. The faulty gene has been hidden away in their ancestry, not 
  expressed.
  A group of doctors from the Royal Children's Hospital, Melbourne, 
  writing in the latest edition of the Medical Journal of Australia, 
  say testing for carriers should be more widely available.
  The doctors propose that the genetic test be offered as a prenatal test 
  early in pregnancy. The couple would both be tested, and if they were both 
  carriers, the foetus would be tested (via chorionic villus sampling, in 
  which a portion of the placenta is sampled). If the foetus had both 
  mutations (a one in four chance), the parents could then be given the 
  option of terminating the pregnancy.
  Ideally, the researchers say, carrier screening should be offered to 
  partners before they conceive. Couples could be tested for carrier status, 
  and if both partners were carriers, they could consider whether they want 
  to conceive in the first place. If they did, they would have the option of 
  conceiving and terminating the pregnancy if the foetus had both mutations. 
  Or they could opt for in-vitro fertilisation - with the embryo conceived 
  and tested in the lab, and only implanted in the woman's uterus if it was 
  found not to have both mutations.
  There is a successful carrier screening program for cystic fibrosis 
  that's been operating along these lines in Edinburgh, Scotland, which has 
  halved the incidence of cystic fibrosis in that community, the researchers 
  say.
  At the very least, they argue, it should be offered as part of routine 
  prenatal testing, like screening for Down's syndrome. The doctors say it 
  

RE: [ozmidwifery] Melb Ob's Supportive of Lotus Birth

[Ken WArd]

She'll 
need to be careful at the birth, too. The 'need' to resus the baby could 
be used as an excuse to cut the cord. Go armed with literature proving that 
babies can be resused with the cord intact. There was a bit about it awhile ago. 
I tried it twice and both times a flat baby responded well. Cord intact baby 
getting o2 . 

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Kelly @ 
  BellyBellySent: Monday, 14 November 2005 3:47 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Melb Ob's 
  Supportive of Lotus Birth
  
  Yep, that is what she 
  wants. Ive also heard of a woman whos had a caesar and the Ob obliged with the Lotus birth there too. 
  
  
  Best 
  Regards,Kelly ZanteyDirector, www.bellybelly.com.au  
  www.toys4tikes.com.auGentle Solutions For 
  Conception, Pregnancy, Birth  BabyAustralian Little Tikes 
  Specialists 
  
  
  
  
  
  From: 
  owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
  [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Janet FraserSent: Monday, 14 November 2005 3:31 
  PMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Melb Ob's 
  Supportive of Lotus Birth
  
  
  What an 
  intriguing idea, a woman who is seeking lotus birth but wants an Ob? Why isn't she using a MW? Lotus birth follows gentle 
  birth, not managed birth.
  
  Sunderai at 
  ICSM has been a doula for c-sec lotus births (hb transfers) so she may have an 
  idea of any that are open to it.
  
  J
  

- Original Message - 


From: Kelly @ 
BellyBelly 

To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 


Sent: Monday, 
November 14, 2005 3:10 PM

Subject: 
[ozmidwifery] Melb Ob's Supportive of Lotus 
Birth


A girl in my forums has asked of 
any Melbourne Obs / GPs etc that are supportive of Lotus Birth for her 
birth  anyone? Ive suggested Lionel Steinberg as a possible and also Peter 
Lucas  but other than that I have no idea where to 
start.
Best Regards,Kelly 
ZanteyDirector, www.bellybelly.com.au  
www.toys4tikes.com.auGentle 
Solutions For Conception, Pregnancy, Birth  BabyAustralian Little 
Tikes Specialists 

RE: [ozmidwifery] burping/winding

[Ken WArd]

If bub's gone to sleep, why wake it up banging it on the back?  Just the
other day I saw a new born in the bath, (2 days old) and all these cute
little bubbles originating from it's bottom, bub very happy indeed. How
often do you think a bub's pooed, you've heard a noise, smelt the smell, but
no poo. Some babies burp easily, others don't seem to need burping. Still
others seem determined to hang onto their wind, so they can make a fuss
later.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of JoFromOz
Sent: Saturday, 5 November 2005 9:26 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] burping/winding


wump fish wrote:

 What do you wise women think about winding/burping babies. I am very
 aware that I am totally confusing women and providing them with
 information which conflicts with my colleagues. I would love to hear
 what information you give women about this subject.

 My standpoint at the moment (more than willing to change it) is that
 for most babies winding is unnecessary and if they fall asleep at the
 breast just leave them. Rather than sitting them up and jiggling them
 about = waking them up all over again etc. Other cultures do not
 wind/burp babies. Wind will find it's own way out.

 Please correct me - I would love to hear alternative theories.

 Rachel

I usually suggest it, as newborns often are a bit uncoordinated with
their suck/swallow/breathe, and crying makes them swallow air.  If their
tummy is full of wind after a feed, they might think they're full, and
go to sleep.  I say to women that if they get rid of the burp, the baby
might feed a bit more as they don't feel full anymore, and it could save
them from having a crying baby in 10 min with stomach pains.

However, since having a baby of my own, I haven't really noticed wind to
be a problem.  I winded him after every feed in his younger months, but
now that we are co-sleeping, he is feeding x number of times a night
laying down, and definitely NOT being winded! There seems to be no
problem.  The air will come out the other end, but I thought in young
babies it hurt them, as there has never been wind in their bowels
before.  That was really my 2 only reasons for suggesting it to women.
I never said they should, just said what might happen if they didn't.  I
did follow up with 'every baby is different, see how you go'.  :)

Jo (Mum to Will, who is rolling rolling rolling!)

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RE: [ozmidwifery] Strep B

[Ken WArd]

My 
daughter was GBS pos. Had IV antis in labour but the staff wanted her to stay in 
fir observation of bub. She was basically told the baby would die if she took 
her home. I said what rubbish. The last two places I have worked if mum 
was GBS pos, had had IV antis in labour ( at least 1 dose four hours before the 
birth) then apart from the odd temp check we just observed bub. Unknown status 
was only worried about if the membranes ruptured 24 hours. Then IV antis 
offered. Given that the swab isn't 100% accurate and mum be negative for 
the swab and colonise a day later why bother scaring women? 

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Robyn 
  DempseySent: Friday, 4 November 2005 9:32 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] Strep 
  B
  I have had 2 cases this year where a woman chose 
  not to have the strep B swabs done antenatally. For whatever reason we 
  transferred from home to the hospital for birthing. The staff wanted her to 
  have antibiotics because the step B statis was unknown. Both times the mothers 
  refused.
  Both times the hospitals then swabbed the babies, 
  said something along the lines of 'we have found 'something' unknown that 
  could be strep b" they then recommended commencing 48hours of IV antibiotics 
  until blood cultures can prove otherwise( that it is not Strep 
B).
  Because of the fear involved, the mothers chose 
  to have the IV antibiotics for the bubs. Blood cultures came back on both 
  babies negative for strep B.
  
  Scary as it is, I relate this story to my clients 
  and let them decide if they want the strep B swab or notguess what 
  they choose??
  Sad huh
  
  Robyn 
Dempsey

RE: Re: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today...

[Ken WArd]

I have worked with midwives from England who have a very medicalised view of
birth. Also with a New Zealander who would just wander in, stocking drawers
etc with a woman labouring in the room. I also met a Kiwi who had a C/S for
CPD in NZ then went on to have a natural birth with the next baby who was
nearly 2lbs heavier. All is not rosy in England, nor NZ. Please don't
'knock' Australia, some of us resent it.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, 31 October 2005 12:23 AM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today...


Hi Rachel,

It is difficult practicing in a new country no matter what you do,
culturally Aust  UK are so dissimilar it's even more frustrating.

I am a Kiwi  am used to the NZ system which is very different to here. I
find Aust women annoyingly passive  apathetic regarding midwifery 
pregnancy generally, they are very American in their attitudes  beliefs 
actually that drives me insane. In NZ we are much more English, it took me
ages to get my head around the 'user pays' system here. I still don't
believe women should have to pay to have a choice in their pregnancy care or
place of birth, it is their right, not privilege (hence I don't make a
profit from my HB practice as I often don't charge women, I barter or
suggest share care with the local birthcentreeMW Clinicc because it's free 
they can see me for alternate visits, doesn't go down well with the
political midwives in Melbourne so I keep it quiebirthcentree

I refuse to get tangled up in the 'insurance debacle, women will have the
choice of birthing at home regardless as far as I'm concerned.

I do practice with back-up, all women book into a hospital in case transfer
is required, I have a great network of alternative practitioners who work in
collaborative practice with me  I can refer at any given time to a lovely
OB, who is always available as an ear if I need him. I don't feel the need
for any other presence, but I do have an extremely competent apprentice who
is nearly finished her direct entry mid  we work very well together. I
chose her because she sees Mid as a separate identity to nursing, has no
fear of birth  sees pregnancy/maternity care as a state of health 
wellbeing.

I have worked in a group/team practice before  whilst the guaranteed time
off  O/C was good that was the only thing that worked in it for me. I found
it just wasn't my style of mid. The politics gave me the irrits  there is
always the power  control crap that goes with groups that I have no time
for.

So you could practice perfectly well without the insurance, back up or
midwifery team because you'd build your own quite quickly once out of the
system. I do sympathise.
Don't go for the supermarket option just yet, it sounds like it'd be a
shame, their gain midwiferiess' loss.
? look at NZ.(much nicer than Aust in every way!!) ..I am going home
tomorrow for 3 weeks as I do every year  will check things out as I do
every year ( but my children are here so my options are limited) . Would you
like an update on what's happening there when I get back? Are you contracted
to the hospital you are working for ?

Please don't stop your contributions to the ozmid, I enjoy your posts 
things will get better, it's early days !!

Kind regards
Brenda Manning
www.themidwife.com.au





 wump fish [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hi Brenda,

 I know exactly what you mean about thinking in lines and circles! I
 think
 this is my big problem. I think in circles in the hospital setting which

 does not go down too well.

 As for why I am not attending homebirths. In the UK I attended
 homebirths
 funded by the NHS (medicare) and backed-up by the maternity system. I
 worked
 in a community team and we covered the on-call between 4 of us. I'm in
 Queensland now and things are a bit different. If I want to do
 homebirths I
 would have to be an independent mw. I don't feel that I know the system
 here
 well enough after only 9 months. Also I would have to practise without
 insurance or back-up or a midwifery team.

 The hospital setting is very frustrating and I plan to escape within 2
 years. Not sure where - research, education. supermarket.

 Rachel


 From: brendamanning [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
 To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
 Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today...
 Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 14:11:25 +1100
 
 Rachel,
 
 Please don't 'shut up for now', as you know once you start 'not' saying

 things it becomes a habit that they never get said at all!
 Also I enjoy your posts !
 
 I wonder why you aren't attending homebirths here if you enjoy then so
 much
 ?  There is no money in it (not the way I practice anyway LOL) but if
 it's
 where your heart lies then you make do somehow.
 
 I work bank at the birth centre to feed the family  homebirths in the
 community to feed my soul !
 I totally agree with 

RE: [ozmidwifery] re medicalised birth etc

[Ken WArd]

Yes, and it's lovely. No matter how m,any 
'pings', a midwife will still be a midwife, as opposed to an obstetrics 
nurse.

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Jenny 
  CameronSent: Tuesday, 1 November 2005 1:21 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] re medicalised 
  birth etc 
  
  A strategy I use in medicalised situations is to create or imagine a 
  midwifery circle around me. As I look after a birthing woman (or a woman at 
  any other phase in the childbirth journey) it is midwifery care that happens 
  in that special space. So no matter how many 'pings' there she is in the care 
  of a midwife and I am doing midwifery. Hope this makes sense. 
  
  Jenny
  Jennifer Cameron FRCNA FACMPresident NT branch ACMIPO Box 
  1465Howard Springs NT 083508 8983 19260419 528 717
  
  
  

RE: [ozmidwifery] Birth Options Eastern Melb

[Ken WArd]

The 
Angliss has a birth centre, and is the only place I would want to birth. All the 
midwives are great, and they are willing to go one on one. 
Maureen

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Kelly @ 
  BellyBellySent: Wednesday, 26 October 2005 10:07 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] Birth Options 
  Eastern Melb
  
  Hello 
  all,
  
  My beautiful 20 year old sister 
  has found out that she is (unexpectedly) pregnant and has little support from 
  her (ex) partner. She lives in the Eastern suburbs of Melbourne  Boronia way 
   and I would like to direct her to some more gentler, supportive birth 
  options near her  she wants to be close to home but I dont know any that 
  would be great  ideas please!!! 
  
  Any shared care GPs would be 
  great, hospital suggestions (have suggested a birth centre) etc. but she is 
  young and frightened. While shell have my support all the way as a birth 
  attendant, I think shes going to need a gentle hospital environment around 
  her if possible. Shes only just found out so I have plenty of time to 
  encourage her to read the right books and empower herself with knowledge, but 
  a good start with a good carer and hospital down her way will be a great help. 
  Shes not open to homebirth, which is okay, the most important thing is that 
  she births where she feels safe. Possibly may go private, she has private 
  cover but will have to watch her money on one 
  income.
  Best Regards,Kelly 
  ZanteyDirector, www.bellybelly.com.au  
  www.toys4tikes.com.auGentle 
  Solutions For Conception, Pregnancy, Birth  BabyAustralian Little 
  Tikes Specialists 
  

RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: Midwifery Educators

[Ken WArd]

When I 
started my mid we were doing shaves and enemas. It was my group of 
students that facillated change. Maybe because we were a generally older 
lot. the women were informed they wold be shaved and given an enema. If 
any objection or query of the procedure was made they were quickly told that 
they could refuse. All did, and by the time our 12 months were up there were no 
shaves or enemas taking place. Midwives can effect change. As to cutting the 
cord quickly if baby needs resus. I have resused 2 flat babies with cord intact, 
on the bed with mum. Bub is getting 02 from mum, and mum is not nearly so 
stressed. Both babies responded well.

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Nicole 
  CarverSent: Tuesday, 25 October 2005 10:36 AMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: 
  Midwifery Educators
  Hi 
  Barbara,
  Do 
  your parents have any say in the cord clamping? Perhaps they need more 
  information such as at their education sessions? We also do active management, 
  but Dad's are still able to cut the cord. Not many of our Mum's do 
  physiological third stage. However, we had a lotus birth recently which went 
  well.
  I 
  believe that although midwives do not have a lot of power in hospitals, 
  parents requests are often listened to. There is an opportunity to harness 
  this to bring about a cultural change, and if parents continue to request 
  certain practices they will break down the resistance to change. 
  
  I 
  have not given pethidine through an epidural before. We have infusions though. 
  They are Fentanyl/Marcain and we do obs 5 minutely for 30 minutes, then full 
  set of obs with pain score, sedation score, dermatomes and motor function, 
  then pulse, BP, resps and sedation scorehourly, with dermatomes and 
  motor function 4 hourly. I think it is good to keep your obs consistent to 
  save confusion, particularly with new or inexperienced 
  staff.
  Cheers,
  Nicole.
  
  
-Original Message-From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Barbara 
StokesSent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 10:15 AMTo: 
ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] Re: 
Midwifery Educators

Dear 
Midwives,
I have just returned from our 
small hospital midwives and doctors breakfast meeting. This is to encourage 
communication. We have 4 
GP/Obs and 9 midwivies.
On discussion was a new policy 
for epidural-top ups: both pethidine only and marcain/fenytal .
Policy is now insistent on bp obs 5minutely for 30 
minutes for both top-ups.
Other hospitals have had the 
pethidine only top-ups: prior 
giving top-up bp, in 5 minutes and then in 15 
minutes.

Does anyone have an email 
address for me to contact?

Also does anyone have policy or 
guidelines re allowing dads to cut cord? This meeting has decided that no cord 
clamps (plastic) will be put on set up so the forceps are used, Dad can do a 
token cutting later (?how later) when cord clamp (plastic) is to be put 
on.
I was hailed down when I 
suggested that a well baby could be put onto mum and continue with the cord 
clamp/ dad cutting cord when ready. If the baby needed 
active resuscitation then quick transfer to resus. trolley would be 
normal procedure.

As you will have noticed our 
GPs only do active 3rd stage, mothers have never heard of 
physiological 3rd stage even though same discussed at ante-natal 
classes.

Thanks from a disappointed 
midwife,
Barbara

RE: [ozmidwifery] The 'wrong' gender

[Ken WArd]

I 
wanted another girl when I had baby no.3. I was so disappointed to get this boy 
that it took weeks for me to bond with him. It was so obvious to the staff that 
they notified him as a baby at risk to the MCHN. Happy ending, I adjusted, he 
soon became the light of my life. But it was awful, and it didn't help when 
people told me I should be happy with what I got. 

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Kylie 
  CarberrySent: Monday, 24 October 2005 11:23 AMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] The 
  'wrong' gender
  
  Andrea, 
  I recall reading quite a good story on this topic - being disappointed with 
  the sex of the baby - in Practical Parenting earlier this year. The 
  editor wrote about it also in the editorial saying that what spawned the 
  interest in taking on the subject was a lady who contacted her who was feeling 
  awful because she found out she was having a girl when she wanted a boy. 
  I had a search in my copies of the mag but couldn't find it. Perhaps you 
  could contact the magazine and ask what issue it was in. It may help the 
  woman you talk about to read about others with the same feelings and that it 
  is not all that unusual to feel this way.
  cheers
  Kylie Carberry Freelance 
  Journalist p: +61 2 42970115 m: +61 2 418220638 f: +61 2 
  42970747
  

From: "Andrea Bilcliff" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: 
ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auTo: "Ozmidwifery" 
ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auCC: "Maternity Coalition 
Midwives" 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: 
[ozmidwifery] The 'wrong' genderDate: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 
11:08:55 +1000



Sorry for cross posting...
I have aclient who is due to give birth 
soonand shereally wants a baby of a particular genderbut 
the ultrasound has shown the baby to be the opposite.This ismuchmore than being a little 
disappointed and it doesnot appear to have eased over the course of 
the pregnancy. 

She has expressed concerns about how this may 
potentially affect her labour. She alsoexpresses enormous guilt over 
having these feelings when she already has healthy children, including one 
of this gender. She is also concerned about the effects her 
feelings/thoughts are having and will have on her baby's 
development.

Assuming the ultrasound is correct, has anyone 
had experience of this either as a mother or care provider? Any words of 
wisdom?

Thanks,
Andrea 
  Bilcliff-- This mailing list is 
  sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or 
  unsubscribe. 

RE: [ozmidwifery] Obs first visits

[Ken WArd]

Where 
I worked (birth centre) the women saw a GP early on and was only referred 
for further visits if a problem developed or she went past 41 
weeks.

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Sonja  
  BarrySent: Saturday, 22 October 2005 11:02 AMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] Obs first 
  visits
  
  Dear all,
  I am hoping for some information about 
  midwifery/maternity units that don't require women to be seen by an 
  obstetrician at any stagethroughout their pregnancy. Info I need 
  is do the midwives listen for heart sounds etc, do they see a GP, or is this 
  all quite irrelevant and thus no needs to do any of these checks? Some 
  places call this a first visit, whilst others may use these checks to "allow" 
  women access to birth centres etc. I hope this makes sense.
  Regards 
Sonja

RE: [ozmidwifery] Infant Sleep

[Ken WArd]

Having 
a little one with milk protein allergy I have learnt to check all labelling. 
They hide milk in just about everything. 

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of 
  EmilySent: Thursday, 20 October 2005 2:09 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Infant 
  Sleep
  hi there
  im vegan so heres a few yummy dairy free breakfast ideas: u can use rice 
  or soy milk on cereals
  - porridge with tahini, honeyand fruit
  - corn puffs (organic bags sold in coles and woolies) with fruit and soy 
  yoghurt
  - weet-bix are dairy free too
  - rye toast with avocado and tomato / baked beans (protein) / 
  tahini and fruit / soy cream cheese and tomato
  - you can get nuttelex margarine if you miss butter 
  - you can use silken tofu to make a scramble sort of like scrambled eggs 
  and add whatever you like to it (tomato, parsely, herbs)
  - soy milk smoothies with fruit, honey and cinnamon
  ..
  etc etc
  hope you (and bub) enjoy
  love emilyPinky McKay 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  ??porridge/ 
buckwheat pancakes without eggs? wholemeal toast and jam/ honey/ 
avocado/ banana?It really is a change of mindset isnt 
it?- Original Message - From: "JoFromOz" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: 
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 10:38 
PMSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Infant Sleep Pinky McKay 
wrote: Jo- as I am researching for sleep book - in one 
sleep study in UK - 12 %  of bubs for whom no other reason for 
sleeplessnes was discovred, were  found to be sensitive to 
dairy- dairy removed for 5 weeks and then  challenged - all but 
one bub reacted again with sleeplessness. Bubs  challenged again 
12 months later and 10 / 15 still reacted. Allergic  symptoms 
are not necessarily gut related - there is also a diff ! between 
 food allergy and intolerance. Would be very suss if your 
breastfed bub  has excema that he is sensitive to something 
dietary. You would need to  eliminate ALL dairy - including milk 
in bought biscuits/ yoghurt etc etc  for at least ten days - but 
it could be worth a try. Pinky Oh 
wow, I didn't realise it could show up in non-gut ways. Ok, this could 
 be tough, but hell, it's worth it. Eggs on toast for breakfast for 
me!  (no butter). Could he be sensitive to eggs, too? Damn, fruit 
for  breakfast... ;) Thanks :) 
Jo -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE 
Graphics. Visit to subscribe or 
unsubscribe. --This mailing list is sponsored by ACE 
Graphics.Visit to subscribe or 
unsubscribe.
  
  
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RE: [ozmidwifery] Scottish dads push wives toward C-sections? I don't think so

[Ken WArd]

I have experienced 4 assisted vaginal birth myself. The second was dreadful,
and injured the baby, dislocated his neck. Number four was posterior, 2 hrs
of no descent in 2nd stage. I could feel she was stuck and tried everything.
In the end I demanded an epidural and forceps. Once the doctor rotated her
into oa she just about fell out. I saw his a lot in my mid. An op rotated
into a oa with forceps and then the mother birthing with no further
assistance.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of wump fish
Sent: Sunday, 16 October 2005 9:24 AM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Scottish dads push wives toward C-sections? I
don't think so


I wonder if he told her that it would be better for her baby if she
experienced some labour - even if she then had a c-section. Although I doubt
that option would fit with his schedule.

I also think that it is a shame that women are missing out on the option of
an assisted vaginal birth due to the lack of obs skills. I have observed
some fantastically gentle and effective instrumental births by experienced
and skilled obs. Including brow presentations manouvered and delivered with
intact perineums. Far better than abdominal surgery. Perhaps if the obs in
Australia concentrated on their own area (abnormal birth) instead of wasting
time in ours (normal birth) they may develop the skills women need them for.

Rachel


From: Susan Cudlipp [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Scottish dads push wives toward C-sections? I
don't think so
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 22:52:48 +0800

Rachel, you raise an interesting point.
One of our obs was talking to a woman in clinic last week, she is 4'9 and
baby is posterior and not engaged at 39 weeks (primip)  so he was advising
her to go straight for C/S - now I do not necessarily agree that she could
not deliver - given some time to allow her body to do it's thing so please
don't flame me, but his words were that he felt she would have a struggle
and that these days it was felt that it is better to have a C/S than a
difficult vaginal birth, whereas in past times there was no choice but to
attempt vaginal birth.

On the plus side, we have had several successful ECV's of late and even
have had obs talking women into VBAC
Sue

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing
Edmund Burke
- Original Message - From: wump fish [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2005 6:24 AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Scottish dads push wives toward C-sections? I
don't think so


I wouldn't be too impressed by UK c-section rates. What is more important
is the 'normal' birth rate. I worked in a large regional referral unit in
the UK (5000 births per year). The Consultant was always bragging to new
drs that the c-section rate was around 20%. He used to get rather p**sed
off when I interrupted to point out that the normal birth rate for a 'low
risk' primip was 49%. The instrumental birth rate was very high.

I have noticed here (Queensland public hospital) that the c-section rate
is around 30+%. But, women very rarely have instrumental births. Often the
c-sections are done at full dilatation and the baby's head has to be
dis-impacted from the pelvis. I asked about it (I ask far too many
questions), and was told it was because the drs don't have the experience
or skill of instrumental births, therefore prefer c-section. Those women
that do have instrumental births often end up with 3rd degree tears.

I can only speak for the hospitals I have worked in (both public sector),
but my observations are the 'normal birth' is higher than the rate in the
UK.

Rachel


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Scottish dads push wives toward C-sections?  I
don't think so
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 13:12:57 EDT

I just wish we had their C/S rate!! Ours is about 5 times that
lately. The
other week I counted 18 out of 30 women on one ward had had the chop -
there
were also a few antenates, believe it or not! We're a major tertiary
hospital,
I know, but they weren't all fulminating P.E.T's, or grade 34 plac.
praevias!
But don't ya just love some of those threatening stand over tactics
by
support (now there's a loose term) people demanding you give pain
relief? We've
had to call security a few times - it can be so distressing for the women
and
the birth process, eh! GW

_
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RE: [ozmidwifery] Scottish dads push wives toward C-sections? I don't think so

[Ken WArd]

Sorry, I too have seen some dreadful injuries, but not with Kielland, and my
own experience with the Kielland was okay, no episi and only a very small
tear. Which I thought was pretty good considering the huge epises I'd had
with the others. It was the Neville Barnes forceps that did the damage, not
to me but the baby, and I think it was the stuck shoulders that caused the
neck.  Some of the worse injuries I have seen have been wriggleys lift outs.
Dreadful placement of the blades, although my 2 wriggleys births were fine,
no probs with me or the babies. We do need to remember that not all forcep
births result in injury, and are sometimes necessary

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of brendamanning
Sent: Sunday, 16 October 2005 12:12 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Scottish dads push wives toward C-sections? I
don't think so


Ken,

Your story is a very common one.
I think we all saw a good many Keillands Rotations in our day  often the
dreadful resulting lacerations  pain, injury  suffering that went along
with them for mother  baby.
I agree with Rachel in that often this was caused by operator error, the Reg
'practising' (foot on the end of the bed stuff, makes me shudder to think
about it).
Fourth degree tears were not uncommon  the long-lasting damage to babies,
womens minds, pelvic floors  pelvic organs was horrendous.
BUT.and I realise this could be construed as inflammatory but
it's not intended to be, really !!
Perhaps in the age of 'new obstetrics' if women ceased sueing OBs for
everything that went wrong then they (the OBs) wouldn't all be resorting to
C/S at absolutely any excuse.
Really it's a very emotive argument  the OBs are damned if they do  damned
if they don't. Sometimes we midwives are in the same boat !!
I'm not defending them overly here, just telling it like it is.
The OB is the story below emerges as skilled but he could just as easily
have had the arse sued off him for mishandling or something if the outcome
had been less favourable couldn't he?


With kind regards
Brenda Manning
www.themidwife.com.au


- Original Message -
From: Ken WArd [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 10:26 AM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Scottish dads push wives toward C-sections? I
don't think so


I have experienced 4 assisted vaginal birth myself. The second was
dreadful,
 and injured the baby, dislocated his neck. Number four was posterior, 2
 hrs
 of no descent in 2nd stage. I could feel she was stuck and tried
 everything.
 In the end I demanded an epidural and forceps. Once the doctor rotated her
 into oa she just about fell out. I saw his a lot in my mid. An op rotated
 into a oa with forceps and then the mother birthing with no further
 assistance.

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of wump fish
 Sent: Sunday, 16 October 2005 9:24 AM
 To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
 Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Scottish dads push wives toward C-sections? I
 don't think so


 I wonder if he told her that it would be better for her baby if she
 experienced some labour - even if she then had a c-section. Although I
 doubt
 that option would fit with his schedule.

 I also think that it is a shame that women are missing out on the option
 of
 an assisted vaginal birth due to the lack of obs skills. I have observed
 some fantastically gentle and effective instrumental births by experienced
 and skilled obs. Including brow presentations manouvered and delivered
 with
 intact perineums. Far better than abdominal surgery. Perhaps if the obs in
 Australia concentrated on their own area (abnormal birth) instead of
 wasting
 time in ours (normal birth) they may develop the skills women need them
 for.

 Rachel


From: Susan Cudlipp [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Scottish dads push wives toward C-sections? I
don't think so
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 22:52:48 +0800

Rachel, you raise an interesting point.
One of our obs was talking to a woman in clinic last week, she is 4'9 and
baby is posterior and not engaged at 39 weeks (primip)  so he was advising
her to go straight for C/S - now I do not necessarily agree that she could
not deliver - given some time to allow her body to do it's thing so please
don't flame me, but his words were that he felt she would have a struggle
and that these days it was felt that it is better to have a C/S than a
difficult vaginal birth, whereas in past times there was no choice but to
attempt vaginal birth.

On the plus side, we have had several successful ECV's of late and even
have had obs talking women into VBAC
Sue

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing
Edmund Burke
- Original Message - From: wump fish [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au

RE: [ozmidwifery] Scottish dads push wives toward C-sections? I don't think so

[Ken WArd]

Great thinking.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of brendamanning
Sent: Friday, 14 October 2005 5:11 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Scottish dads push wives toward C-sections? I
don't think so


Rachel,

I wouldn't call that unprofessional, just lateral thinking !!
Adapting to the situation at hand, well done yourself.

Kind regards
Brenda Manning
www.themidwife.com.au

- Original Message -
From: wump fish [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2005 3:45 PM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Scottish dads push wives toward C-sections? I
don't think so


 It is very frustrating when a woman is labouring really well and her birth
 partners are counter-acting her state of mind. Some get quite annoyed that
 you are not responding to her noises by giving her drugs to make her quiet
 and easier to watch. I have actually given a dad the entonox once during a
 waterbirth. The woman was coping fantastically and vocally during her
 contractions, relaxed in between. Every contraction he would freak out and
 ask me to help her, then hang his head in his hands. He was s stressed
 out and I couldn't talk him down. In the end I handed him the entonox and
 told him it would do him more good than her. It worked! He chilled out and
 we all had a good laugh about it. Probably highly unprofessional!
 Rachel


From: Ken WArd [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Scottish dads push wives toward C-sections?  I
don't think so
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 11:04:10 +1000

I have given women drugs in labour at their partners demand. Also
epidurals
and c/s organised because the partner wasn't coping. It is devesting when
a
woman is labouring well, and her partner, or sometimes her mother, isn't
coping and undermines the woman's confidence in her body. I have often
felt
like giving him the drugs. One feels hopeless and helpless when adverse
comments and stressed support people influence the woman. And lets face
it,
in the hospital setting who has the strongest and personal relationship,
and
therefore more likely to influence ?
   -Original Message-
   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Gloria Lemay
   Sent: Friday, 14 October 2005 5:59 AM
   To: Undisclosed-Recipient:;@uniserve.com;;;
   Subject: [ozmidwifery] Scottish dads push wives toward C-sections? I
 don't
think so


   This is a group that no one has thought to blame the high cesarean rate
on.  Hmm.  Gloria



   Scotland on Sunday - October 2, 2005

   Squeamish men pushing wives towards Caesareans

   RICHARD GRAY
   HEALTH CORRESPONDENT


   FRETTING fathers-to-be are fuelling Scotland's soaring Caesarean
 section
   rate because they do not like to see their pregnant partners in pain,
   midwives have warned.
   They claim many worried husbands are afraid of the mess and noise that
   accompanies natural childbirth.
 Instead they are encouraging their wives to give birth at large
   consultant-led hospital units where they can get powerful painkillers
 and
   surgery.
   But midwives claim these over-protective men are unwittingly causing
 their
   partners to have unnecessary Caesarean sections and drugs by taking
 them
to
   these baby factories.
   They say more women would have natural births if they used smaller
   midwife-run maternity units.
   The proportion of women choosing to have Caesareans has leapt from 6.2%
 to
   9% in the last 10 years with more than 4,600 women choosing to have the
   major surgical procedure in 2004.
   Experts claim the increase in popularity is mainly due to the
misconception
   that Caesareans are a safer and pain-free option to traditional
childbirth.
   But the abdominal surgery can leave mothers in pain for weeks
 afterwards
and
   they are prone to getting infections in their wound.
   The controversy surrounding Caesareans has led to tensions between
midwives
   and doctors over the best way of providing services to pregnant women.
   Earlier this year the Royal College of Midwives launched a campaign to
   promote normality in childbirth.
   Phyllis Winters, a midwifery team leader at Montrose Community
 Maternity
   Unit, believes the celebrity trend of opting for Caesareans has helped
   create the myth that surgery is the easier option.
   But she believes squeamish husbands have also played a part in the
 decline
   of natural childbirth.
   She will present her claims at a conference organised by the National
   Childbirth Trust (NCT) and the Royal College of Midwives in
 Dunfermline,
   Fife, on Thursday.
   Winters said: A lot of couples take decisions about childbirth
 together
and
   men in particular feel wary about childbirth.
   They are frightened about seeing their partner in pain and about what
 can
   go wrong. As a result they often prefer to go to the consultant

RE: [ozmidwifery] Convenience

[Ken WArd]

And 
you don't have to take it shopping

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Sally 
  WestburySent: Friday, 14 October 2005 9:03 AMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] 
  Convenience
  
  An you can send a puppy 
  to boarding kennel so you can have a holiday
  
  Sally 
  Westbury
  Homebirth 
  Midwife
  "Learn 
  from mothers and babies; every one of them has a unique story to tell. Look 
  for wisdom in the humblest places - that's usually where you'll find 
  it."
   
  Lois 
  Wilson