Re: [ozmidwifery] Let baby decide birth date
My sister-in-law is a vet in the States and I've heard the same from her regarding interferring with horses births.. they know that you can't often improve on nature!!Cheers MichelleJulie Garratt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, I was chatting with a family friend who breeds show horses. Talking about postdates, etc. He laughed at me. Apparently, any horse breeder worth his salt knows that 1) the foal initiates birth, 2) any breeder who induces labor is a fool, 3) foals that come from induced labors are inferior (have long term health difficulties, etc), 4) induced labors are hard on both foal and mare, and 5) ! some foals just take longer, and gestational dates are just a guess. If this is "common knowledge" amongst horse breeders, fercryingoutloud, why isn't it for human breeders Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com
Re: [ozmidwifery] Let baby decide birth date
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] Let baby decide birth date Dear Julie and All I love it. I also saw a piece from a vet many moons ago on the huge dangers of interfering with the physiological birthing processes For Mares, with them citing that owners should stay well away leaving the Mare to do what they need to. What a shame I should have incorporated this into a recent story I did on my twin home water birth, because I live in Australias horse capital, Scone!!! JC
Re: [ozmidwifery] Let baby decide birth date
A friend of mine is a vet and we had a very similar discussion not that long ago about dogs and the iniation of labour and a few other things. I remember laughing at her and saying so if vets know all this about dogs why don't Drs know it about humans, we can't be that different! At 4:37 PM +1030 27/12/05, Julie Garratt wrote: So, I was chatting with a family friend who breeds show horses. Talking about postdates, etc. He laughed at me. Apparently, any horse breeder worth his salt knows that 1) the foal initiates birth, 2) any breeder who induces labor is a fool, 3) foals that come from induced labors are inferior (have long term health difficulties, etc), 4) induced labors are hard on both foal and mare, and 5) some foals just take longer, and gestational dates are just a guess. If this is common knowledge amongst horse breeders, fercryingoutloud, why isn't it for human breeders -- Jo Bourne Virtual Artists Pty Ltd -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Let baby decide birth date
A huge number of women demand IOL from 37/40 onwards, like you Janet,(btw your views make perfect sense to me) I despair of how how to get the message across that the 'process' of birth will happen when all the participants are ready ie the baby, the mothers mind her body. Sometimes in clinic I see women exert enormous pressure on the OB to IOL when he's not fussed about it would happily await events. Perhaps the issue is that the animals won't sue the vet if something happens to their offspring because they were post-dates no one intervened ! Whereas the women or their partners/families/GPs will. Litigation has a lot to answer for, CYA (cover your arse) medicine alive well ! With kind regards Brenda Manning www.themidwife.com.au - Original Message - From: Jo Bourne [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 7:05 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Let baby decide birth date A friend of mine is a vet and we had a very similar discussion not that long ago about dogs and the iniation of labour and a few other things. I remember laughing at her and saying so if vets know all this about dogs why don't Drs know it about humans, we can't be that different! At 4:37 PM +1030 27/12/05, Julie Garratt wrote: So, I was chatting with a family friend who breeds show horses. Talking about postdates, etc. He laughed at me. Apparently, any horse breeder worth his salt knows that 1) the foal initiates birth, 2) any breeder who induces labor is a fool, 3) foals that come from induced labors are inferior (have long term health difficulties, etc), 4) induced labors are hard on both foal and mare, and 5) some foals just take longer, and gestational dates are just a guess. If this is common knowledge amongst horse breeders, fercryingoutloud, why isn't it for human breeders -- Jo Bourne Virtual Artists Pty Ltd -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Let baby decide birth date
The rate of c-sect for dogs has also sky rocketed :) It's not only horses' birthing but ask any farmer/breeder of cows/sheep/horses or I guess any mammal for that fact about the shortcomings of an animal baby that is denied colostrum for any reason. Why do humans think they are any different? Humans are supposed to be the intelligent ones! Regards Jayne - Original Message - From: brendamanning [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 8:54 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Let baby decide birth date A huge number of women demand IOL from 37/40 onwards, like you Janet,(btw your views make perfect sense to me) I despair of how how to get the message across that the 'process' of birth will happen when all the participants are ready ie the baby, the mothers mind her body. Sometimes in clinic I see women exert enormous pressure on the OB to IOL when he's not fussed about it would happily await events. Perhaps the issue is that the animals won't sue the vet if something happens to their offspring because they were post-dates no one intervened ! Whereas the women or their partners/families/GPs will. Litigation has a lot to answer for, CYA (cover your arse) medicine alive well ! With kind regards Brenda Manning www.themidwife.com.au - Original Message - From: Jo Bourne [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 7:05 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Let baby decide birth date A friend of mine is a vet and we had a very similar discussion not that long ago about dogs and the iniation of labour and a few other things. I remember laughing at her and saying so if vets know all this about dogs why don't Drs know it about humans, we can't be that different! At 4:37 PM +1030 27/12/05, Julie Garratt wrote: So, I was chatting with a family friend who breeds show horses. Talking about postdates, etc. He laughed at me. Apparently, any horse breeder worth his salt knows that 1) the foal initiates birth, 2) any breeder who induces labor is a fool, 3) foals that come from induced labors are inferior (have long term health difficulties, etc), 4) induced labors are hard on both foal and mare, and 5) some foals just take longer, and gestational dates are just a guess. If this is common knowledge amongst horse breeders, fercryingoutloud, why isn't it for human breeders -- Jo Bourne Virtual Artists Pty Ltd -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Let baby decide birth date
The thing with dogs' c/s rate skyrocketing though is that is more often going to be the owners meddling with the natural process than the vets. The vets generally don't get involved until after things have gone wrong. Even then I believe my vet generally tries leaving the bitch alone in a dark room for a while to see if that will start things back up. This of course relates fairly directly to Brenda's comments below about consumer pressure for IOL (and elective c/s). At 9:41 PM +1100 27/12/05, jesse/jayne wrote: The rate of c-sect for dogs has also sky rocketed :) It's not only horses' birthing but ask any farmer/breeder of cows/sheep/horses or I guess any mammal for that fact about the shortcomings of an animal baby that is denied colostrum for any reason. Why do humans think they are any different? Humans are supposed to be the intelligent ones! Regards Jayne - Original Message - From: brendamanning [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 8:54 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Let baby decide birth date A huge number of women demand IOL from 37/40 onwards, like you Janet,(btw your views make perfect sense to me) I despair of how how to get the message across that the 'process' of birth will happen when all the participants are ready ie the baby, the mothers mind her body. Sometimes in clinic I see women exert enormous pressure on the OB to IOL when he's not fussed about it would happily await events. Perhaps the issue is that the animals won't sue the vet if something happens to their offspring because they were post-dates no one intervened ! Whereas the women or their partners/families/GPs will. Litigation has a lot to answer for, CYA (cover your arse) medicine alive well ! With kind regards Brenda Manning www.themidwife.com.au - Original Message - From: Jo Bourne [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 7:05 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Let baby decide birth date A friend of mine is a vet and we had a very similar discussion not that long ago about dogs and the iniation of labour and a few other things. I remember laughing at her and saying so if vets know all this about dogs why don't Drs know it about humans, we can't be that different! At 4:37 PM +1030 27/12/05, Julie Garratt wrote: So, I was chatting with a family friend who breeds show horses. Talking about postdates, etc. He laughed at me. Apparently, any horse breeder worth his salt knows that 1) the foal initiates birth, 2) any breeder who induces labor is a fool, 3) foals that come from induced labors are inferior (have long term health difficulties, etc), 4) induced labors are hard on both foal and mare, and 5) some foals just take longer, and gestational dates are just a guess. If this is common knowledge amongst horse breeders, fercryingoutloud, why isn't it for human breeders -- Jo Bourne Virtual Artists Pty Ltd -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- Jo Bourne Virtual Artists Pty Ltd -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] Let baby decide birth date
So, I was chatting with a family friend who breeds show horses. Talking about postdates, etc. He laughed at me. Apparently, any horse breeder worth his salt knows that 1) the foal initiates birth, 2) any breeder who induces labor is a fool, 3) foals that come from induced labors are inferior (have long term health difficulties, etc), 4) induced labors are hard on both foal and mare, and 5) some foals just take longer, and gestational dates are just a guess. If this is "common knowledge" amongst horse breeders, fercryingoutloud, why isn't it for human breeders
Re: [ozmidwifery] Let baby decide birth date
Perhaps because human breeders are controlled in their birthing by humans who run large institutions and profit from taking on many breeding clients to fit them into a schedule? I often wonder things like this myself when women tell me constantly they "have to" be induced because "the baby is 10 days late". I have no idea how to get the message out any more than I do : ( Thanks for sharing, nice to feel less isolated in my weird evidence based beliefs ; ) J - Original Message - From: Julie Garratt To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 5:07 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Let baby decide birth date So, I was chatting with a family friend who breeds show horses. Talking about postdates, etc. He laughed at me. Apparently, any horse breeder worth his salt knows that 1) the foal initiates birth, 2) any breeder who induces labor is a fool, 3) foals that come from induced labors are inferior (have long term health difficulties, etc), 4) induced labors are hard on both foal and mare, and 5) some foals just take longer, and gestational dates are just a guess. If this is "common knowledge" amongst horse breeders, fercryingoutloud, why isn't it for human breeders
