RE: [ozmidwifery] weight loss
They notify pretty quickly. But it could be some other metabolic disorder. Worth thinking about. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Nancy San MartinSent: Monday, 29 May 2006 10:54 AMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] weight loss Have you considered getting results from NBST asap? Sounds like a metabolic disorder cystic fibrosis? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan CudlippSent: Wednesday, 24 May 2006 11:44 PMTo: midwifery listSubject: [ozmidwifery] weight loss Dear wise women I have been following a client on early discharge whose baby is losing weight. Now about 2 weeks old, I readmitted her on day 5 as bub was lethargic, had not had a bowel movement and had lost weight. She expressed, fed and topped up, bub 'woke up' and put on weight, started opening bowels and generally improved all round, went home again fully breast feeding, seems to have plenty of milk, plenty of wet nappies but again - no poo's, and on last 2 visits had lost weight, 50g then another 40g. Has not regained birth weight yet and does not seem satisfied despite frequent b/f. I will be seeing her again tomorrow and am frankly puzzled by this scenario. She is on medication herself for epilepsy (low dose Tegretol and another that I can't remember) and has been taking Motilium to boost supply. Any suggestions/comments? TIA Sue "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund Burke
RE: [ozmidwifery] weight loss
Have you considered getting results from NBST asap? Sounds like a metabolic disorder cystic fibrosis? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan Cudlipp Sent: Wednesday, 24 May 2006 11:44 PM To: midwifery list Subject: [ozmidwifery] weight loss Dear wise women I have been following a client on early discharge whose baby is losing weight. Now about 2 weeks old, I readmitted her on day 5 as bub was lethargic, had not had a bowel movement and had lost weight. She expressed, fed and topped up, bub 'woke up' and put on weight, started opening bowels and generally improved all round, went home again fully breast feeding, seems to have plenty of milk, plenty of wet nappies but again - no poo's, and on last 2 visits had lost weight, 50g then another 40g. Has not regained birth weight yet and does not seem satisfied despite frequent b/f. I will be seeing her again tomorrow and am frankly puzzled by this scenario. She is on medication herself for epilepsy (low dose Tegretol and another that I can't remember) and has been taking Motilium to boost supply. Any suggestions/comments? TIA Sue The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing Edmund Burke
Re: [ozmidwifery] weight loss
Hi Susan, how long since the motilium started? Can
take up to a week to get good response. I would consider supply line rather than
bottling the suppliments especially as it may be for a prolonged time. How is
her iron level? Maybe iron suppliments and a multivitamin as well as expressing
post 3-4 hrly feeds
Cheers,
Diane
- Original Message -
From:
Susan
Cudlipp
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 6:30
PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] weight
loss
Thanks for all the replies to my
question.
To answer: Baby did have bag urine and full paed
check on readmission, as far as I know nothing abnormal was found. No tongue
tie and no projectile vomitting. He was reviewed by paeds daily while
back in hospital. He was breast fed and supplemented with formula for 3
days whereupon he started to regain weight and have bowel movements, also woke
up and started behaving more normally. Was discharged again with EDP
follow-up, fully b/f. Lost weight again over 5 days and again no bowel
movements. On Tuesday I recommended mum re-start formula top-ups again
post feeds if he wasn't settling - she had been feeding for long periods and
he was still not settling so was keen to do this. Her diet appears to be
adequate, she has good family support and is a calm, confident mum - I
observed feeding on a number of occasions and saw good latching and swallowing
happening, appears quite content at the breast.Yesterday bub had put on
120gms and was polishing off 60ml formula top-ups post feeds (3 hourly) Had an
enormous bowel action - first for 4-5 days. Today weight was static - maybe
due to huge BM. I advised her to offer more a/f and let him decide how
much he needed if he was not satisfied post b/f.
I have discharged her to the CHN who visited
yesterday but we can visit in the interim if she has any worries. He
appeared well, has never been jaundiced, and is well hydrated but looks
'skinny', not much body fat yet. I do wonder about this bub though
because I just felt that something was not 'right' with him and perhaps down
the track he may be found to have some other issues as yet un diagnosed. I
also agree with Andrea that the tegretol may be part of the answer - she is
also on carbimazine for ulcerative colitis (that was the med that I couldn't
remember)
Many times I have heard women say 'I had to stop
feeding because my milk was 'no good'' and I have never thought this could be
true but this one did have me stumped and I wonder if there is
anypossibility that sometimes mum's milk is not high enough in calories
for a particluar baby (diet issues aside)
Thanks again for all your input
Sue
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing"Edmund Burke
- Original Message -
From:
Andrea Quanchi
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 2:40
PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] weight
loss
I have personal experience of another Mum who was on tegratol
and lamictal and had similar scenario. Bub really struggled for some months
as Mum perservered but eventually bub needed to be comped and has never
looked back. Give it a bit longer if bub is happy as weight is not
everything but if bub is showing signs that he is hungry then offering a
comp will allow him to tell you whether this is what he needs or not. If it
isnt he wont take it. He might only need a small amount once or twice
a day to tope up what he is getting from mum and this will allow them all to
relax and get on with it. Worrying about him being unhappy will not do
anything for her supply
Andrea
On 25/05/2006, at 6:29 AM, Nicole Carver wrote:
Hi
Susan,
This is
indeed puzzling. The babe needs a visit to the doctor to have medical
reasons excluded, if it hasn't already been done, including bag urine for
culture etc. However, the fact that the baby regained wt in hospital and
then lost it again at home does seem to point to a feeding management
issue. Is Mum feeding the baby often enough, or leaving the baby on the
breast long enough? Does the baby have a tongue tie (these babies feed
well from the bottle, but find it hard to strip a breast)? Is Mum hearing
baby at night or is she slightly sedated by the Tegretol, or the baby
sedated by it? I assume someone has checked if Tegretol is ok with
BF?
Warm
regards,Nicole
Carver.
-Original
Message-From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
Behalf Of Susan CudlippSent:
Wednesday, May 24, 2006 11:44 PMTo:
midwifery listSubject:
[ozmidwifery] weight loss
Dear wise
women
I have been
RE: [ozmidwifery] weight loss
I had a Chinese woman tell me about her chicken and ginger soup that she swears by for abundant milk supply.(chicken soupcan bepretty fatty). The Asians have a reasonable level of fat in their diet, especially when feeding. I mentioned dairy because we are told to stick to the low fat, especially dairy. Sue said the baby is having good, wet nappies, I agree with the supply line in preference to bottles, having used one myself for 4 months. Maureen -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Barbara Glare Chris BrightSent: Thursday, 25 May 2006 8:10 PMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] weight loss Hi, This is getting off the track in of the story.. The role of diet is interesting. I wonder how the Chinese manage - no walls of dairy cabinets in Chinese supermarkets. Re the breastfeeding, it still sounds a bit like not enough milk. I feel a 2 week old breastfed baby should be having plenty of poos.and some weight gain - not loss. Lots of mums, using disposables, have a tough time working our how much wee a baby is having. How much milk was she able to express? Babies often seem to take more by bottle than they would normally need. at 60mls 3 hrly, that would seem to be more than 1/2 of his normal intake in formula. The first rule is certainly *feed the baby* But formula feeding such large amounts won't help build up her milk supply. Is there a plan to increase that? Barb - Original Message - From: Ken Ward To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 11:04 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] weight loss He's getting enough fluid, so look at mum's diet. Is she getting enough fat and protein? Even if overweight she should be having full fat dairy. I wouldn't be worried about no poo, but theweight loss is worrying. How often is he feeding and for how long? Off hand I'd say he's not getting enough fat. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Susan CudlippSent: Wednesday, 24 May 2006 11:44 PMTo: midwifery listSubject: [ozmidwifery] weight loss Dear wise women I have been following a client on early discharge whose baby is losing weight. Now about 2 weeks old, I readmitted her on day 5 as bub was lethargic, had not had a bowel movement and had lost weight. She expressed, fed and topped up, bub 'woke up' and put on weight, started opening bowels and generally improved all round, went home again fully breast feeding, seems to have plenty of milk, plenty of wet nappies but again - no poo's, and on last 2 visits had lost weight, 50g then another 40g. Has not regained birth weight yet and does not seem satisfied despite frequent b/f. I will be seeing her again tomorrow and am frankly puzzled by this scenario. She is on medication herself for epilepsy (low dose Tegretol and another that I can't remember) and has been taking Motilium to boost supply. Any suggestions/comments? TIA Sue "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund Burke
Re: [ozmidwifery] weight loss
I have also heard of fish soup being used by Fijians forincreasing milk supply. It would be great if someone could do some research into it Helen - Original Message - From: Alesa Koziol To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, May 26, 2006 12:16 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] weight loss We have a big Asian population from a wide range of cultures and I've seen so many variations of the chicken and ginger soup used by different Asian cultures that I have no hesitation in recommending it to mothers with a willing mother/auntie in the background who will cook up a batch. It is amazing how effective this is at increasing milk supply Alesa Alesa KoziolClinical Midwifery EducatorMelbourne - Original Message - From: Ken Ward To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, May 26, 2006 11:41 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] weight loss I had a Chinese woman tell me about her chicken and ginger soup that she swears by for abundant milk supply.(chicken soupcan bepretty fatty). The Asians have a reasonable level of fat in their diet, especially when feeding. I mentioned dairy because we are told to stick to the low fat, especially dairy. Sue said the baby is having good, wet nappies, I agree with the supply line in preference to bottles, having used one myself for 4 months. Maureen -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Barbara Glare Chris BrightSent: Thursday, 25 May 2006 8:10 PMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] weight loss Hi, This is getting off the track in of the story.. The role of diet is interesting. I wonder how the Chinese manage - no walls of dairy cabinets in Chinese supermarkets. Re the breastfeeding, it still sounds a bit like not enough milk. I feel a 2 week old breastfed baby should be having plenty of poos.and some weight gain - not loss. Lots of mums, using disposables, have a tough time working our how much wee a baby is having. How much milk was she able to express? Babies often seem to take more by bottle than they would normally need. at 60mls 3 hrly, that would seem to be more than 1/2 of his normal intake in formula. The first rule is certainly *feed the baby* But formula feeding such large amounts won't help build up her milk supply. Is there a plan to increase that? Barb - Original Message - From: Ken Ward To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 11:04 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] weight loss He's getting enough fluid, so look at mum's diet. Is she getting enough fat and protein? Even if overweight she should be having full fat dairy. I wouldn't be worried about no poo, but theweight loss is worrying. How often is he feeding and for how long? Off hand I'd say he's not getting enough fat. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Susan CudlippSent: Wednesday, 24 May 2006 11:44 PMTo: midwifery listSubject: [ozmidwifery] weight loss Dear wise women I have been following a client on early discharge whose baby is losing weight. Now about 2 weeks old, I readmitted her on day 5 as bub was lethargic, had not had a bowel movement and had lost weight. She expressed, fed and topped up, bub 'woke up' and put on weight, started opening bowels and generally improved all round, went home again fully breast feeding, seems to have plenty of milk, plenty of wet nappies but again - no poo's, and on last 2 visits had lost weight, 50g then another 40g. Has not regained birth weight yet and does not seem satisfied despite frequent b/f. I will be seeing her again tomorrow and am frankly puzzled by this scenario. She is on medication herself for epilepsy (low dose Tegretol and another that I can't remember) and has been taking Motilium to boost supply. Any suggestions/comments? TIA Sue "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund Burke
Re: [ozmidwifery] weight loss/ chicken soup
Within Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM), the properties of chicken are warming in nature, and builds energy (chi), with specific affects on the digestion. Improving the digestion improves the energy and blood-building qualities. As breast-milk in TCM is seen as an extension of blood the eating of chicken soup aids breast milk production.Ginger also has warming properties. I hope this is clear as it a quick crash course in TCM. Rebecca Gaiewski[EMAIL PROTECTED]Student midwife On 26/05/2006, at 1:02 PM, Helen and Graham wrote:I have also heard of fish soup being used by Fijians for increasing milk supply. It would be great if someone could do some research into it Helen- Original Message -From: Alesa KoziolTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSent: Friday, May 26, 2006 12:16 PMSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] weight lossWe have a big Asian population from a wide range of cultures and I've seen so many variations of the chicken and ginger soup used by different Asian cultures that I have no hesitation in recommending it to mothers with a willing mother/auntie in the background who will cook up a batch. It is amazing how effective this is at increasing milk supply Alesa Alesa KoziolClinical Midwifery EducatorMelbourne- Original Message -From: Ken WardTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSent: Friday, May 26, 2006 11:41 AMSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] weight lossI had a Chinese woman tell me about her chicken and ginger soup that she swears by for abundant milk supply.(chicken soup can be pretty fatty). The Asians have a reasonable level of fat in their diet, especially when feeding. I mentioned dairy because we are told to stick to the low fat, especially dairy. Sue said the baby is having good, wet nappies, I agree with the supply line in preference to bottles, having used one myself for 4 months. Maureen-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Barbara Glare Chris BrightSent: Thursday, 25 May 2006 8:10 PMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] weight lossHi, This is getting off the track in of the story.. The role of diet is interesting. I wonder how the Chinese manage - no walls of dairy cabinets in Chinese supermarkets. Re the breastfeeding, it still sounds a bit like not enough milk. I feel a 2 week old breastfed baby should be having plenty of poos. and some weight gain - not loss. Lots of mums, using disposables, have a tough time working our how much wee a baby is having. How much milk was she able to express? Babies often seem to take more by bottle than they would normally need. at 60mls 3 hrly, that would seem to be more than 1/2 of his normal intake in formula. The first rule is certainly *feed the baby* But formula feeding such large amounts won't help build up her milk supply. Is there a plan to increase that? Barb- Original Message -From: Ken WardTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 11:04 AMSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] weight lossHe's getting enough fluid, so look at mum's diet. Is she getting enough fat and protein? Even if overweight she should be having full fat dairy. I wouldn't be worried about no poo, but the weight loss is worrying. How often is he feeding and for how long? Off hand I'd say he's not getting enough fat.-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Susan CudlippSent: Wednesday, 24 May 2006 11:44 PMTo: midwifery listSubject: [ozmidwifery] weight lossDear wise womenI have been following a client on early discharge whose baby is losing weight. Now about 2 weeks old, I readmitted her on day 5 as bub was lethargic, had not had a bowel movement and had lost weight. She expressed, fed and topped up, bub 'woke up' and put on weight, started opening bowels and generally improved all round, went home again fully breast feeding, seems to have plenty of milk, plenty of wet nappies but again - no poo's, and on last 2 visits had lost weight, 50g then another 40g. Has not regained birth weight yet and does not seem satisfied despite frequent b/f. I will be seeing her again tomorrow and am frankly puzzled by this scenario. She is on medication herself for epilepsy (low dose Tegretol and another that I can't remember) and has been taking Motilium to boost supply.Any suggestions/comments?TIA Sue"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund Burke
RE: [ozmidwifery] weight loss
Hi Susan, This is indeed puzzling. The babe needs a visit to the doctor to have medical reasons excluded, if it hasn't already been done, including bag urine for culture etc. However, the fact that the baby regained wt in hospital and then lost it again at home does seem to point to a feeding management issue. Is Mum feeding the baby often enough, or leaving the baby on the breast long enough? Does the baby have a tongue tie (these babies feed well from the bottle, but find it hard to strip a breast)? Is Mum hearing baby at night or is she slightly sedated by the Tegretol, or the baby sedated by it? I assume someone has checked if Tegretol is ok with BF? Warm regards,Nicole Carver. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Susan CudlippSent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 11:44 PMTo: midwifery listSubject: [ozmidwifery] weight loss Dear wise women I have been following a client on early discharge whose baby is losing weight. Now about 2 weeks old, I readmitted her on day 5 as bub was lethargic, had not had a bowel movement and had lost weight. She expressed, fed and topped up, bub 'woke up' and put on weight, started opening bowels and generally improved all round, went home again fully breast feeding, seems to have plenty of milk, plenty of wet nappies but again - no poo's, and on last 2 visits had lost weight, 50g then another 40g. Has not regained birth weight yet and does not seem satisfied despite frequent b/f. I will be seeing her again tomorrow and am frankly puzzled by this scenario. She is on medication herself for epilepsy (low dose Tegretol and another that I can't remember) and has been taking Motilium to boost supply. Any suggestions/comments? TIA Sue "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund Burke
Re: [ozmidwifery] weight loss
The Tegretol could be of concern and the other medications should be checked too. I would also have an experienced person do another baby check to exclude cardiac abnormalities. Cardiac babies can be fine in the first few days, but then become lethargic etc as thier bodies cardiac requirements increase. Megan - Original Message - From: Susan Cudlipp To: midwifery list Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 11:44 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] weight loss Dear wise women I have been following a client on early discharge whose baby is losing weight. Now about 2 weeks old, I readmitted her on day 5 as bub was lethargic, had not had a bowel movement and had lost weight. She expressed, fed and topped up, bub 'woke up' and put on weight, started opening bowels and generally improved all round, went home again fully breast feeding, seems to have plenty of milk, plenty of wet nappies but again - no poo's, and on last 2 visits had lost weight, 50g then another 40g. Has not regained birth weight yet and does not seem satisfied despite frequent b/f. I will be seeing her again tomorrow and am frankly puzzled by this scenario. She is on medication herself for epilepsy (low dose Tegretol and another that I can't remember) and has been taking Motilium to boost supply. Any suggestions/comments? TIA Sue "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund Burke
Re: [ozmidwifery] weight loss
Hi Sue, This particular lady had me stumped too! Good luck and let me what the outcome. Melissa - Original Message - From: Susan Cudlipp To: midwifery list Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 9:44 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] weight loss Dear wise women I have been following a client on early discharge whose baby is losing weight. Now about 2 weeks old, I readmitted her on day 5 as bub was lethargic, had not had a bowel movement and had lost weight. She expressed, fed and topped up, bub 'woke up' and put on weight, started opening bowels and generally improved all round, went home again fully breast feeding, seems to have plenty of milk, plenty of wet nappies but again - no poo's, and on last 2 visits had lost weight, 50g then another 40g. Has not regained birth weight yet and does not seem satisfied despite frequent b/f. I will be seeing her again tomorrow and am frankly puzzled by this scenario. She is on medication herself for epilepsy (low dose Tegretol and another that I can't remember) and has been taking Motilium to boost supply. Any suggestions/comments? TIA Sue "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund Burke
RE: [ozmidwifery] weight loss
He's getting enough fluid, so look at mum's diet. Is she getting enough fat and protein? Even if overweight she should be having full fat dairy. I wouldn't be worried about no poo, but theweight loss is worrying. How often is he feeding and for how long? Off hand I'd say he's not getting enough fat. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Susan CudlippSent: Wednesday, 24 May 2006 11:44 PMTo: midwifery listSubject: [ozmidwifery] weight loss Dear wise women I have been following a client on early discharge whose baby is losing weight. Now about 2 weeks old, I readmitted her on day 5 as bub was lethargic, had not had a bowel movement and had lost weight. She expressed, fed and topped up, bub 'woke up' and put on weight, started opening bowels and generally improved all round, went home again fully breast feeding, seems to have plenty of milk, plenty of wet nappies but again - no poo's, and on last 2 visits had lost weight, 50g then another 40g. Has not regained birth weight yet and does not seem satisfied despite frequent b/f. I will be seeing her again tomorrow and am frankly puzzled by this scenario. She is on medication herself for epilepsy (low dose Tegretol and another that I can't remember) and has been taking Motilium to boost supply. Any suggestions/comments? TIA Sue "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund Burke
