Re: [PAYCO] Time to call it quits for my Pres.

[Chargein Mabaso]

Comrades,

President Mugabe was sabotage by his own party to expose him or even
to send a clear signal to those who don't want him to step down within
Zanu Pf for their own good reasons. That is clear not to my mind.
Let's wait and see the next signal.

On the point of eloquent leaders, i have a different view. Most of
eloquent leaders do not go beyond eloquence nowadays. Most of them are
spineless. They cannot stand alone on principle. Unprincipled leaders
cannot make in a party. Many of them find it difficult to lead the
Party and give up easily. They can be crowd pullers outside the party
but leading the party does not end there. Take the example of Mandela
and Mbeki. When Mbeki took over, we doubted him if he will reach
Mandela's crow pulling capability. My own assessment is Mbeki was a
stronger leaders even more than Mandela as far as leading the ANC. He
could handle ANC dynamics better than Mandela but he was not eloquent
or charismatic like Mandela. Moreso, I worked in the past with highly
chariSmatic and eloquence PASO and AZANYU leaders. Many of them found
it difficulty to lead an organisation. Leading is a another ball game
altogether. That is why many parties employ eloquent speakers as
spokespersons, ot President of the Party. A good leader must excell in
uniting and leading the party properly into the theatre of struggle.
He / she must master how to exercise his /her powers effective and
efficiently as a leader without abusing them.  He must a true
democratic centralist who knows the limits of democratic centralism.
He must neither be a dictator nor spineless democrat. Furthermore, he
must not try to imitate another leader's style of leadership. He /she
must himself / herself. There a few such people in any party. At the
same, he must be part of a revolutionary collective, not a faction.

On 9/21/15, Sebenzile Mlaza  wrote:
>
>
> Revolutionary greetings all,
>
>
> Reading an already delivered speech by president Mugabe is definitely not a
> transgression, but remember State of the Nation addresses are simply not
> delivered off the cuff, right? Imbedded in them are hopes and inspirations
> of the Nation; they encampus the country's vision thus making the incident
> not trivial. Some leaders even memorize them so to appear to be orators ala
> Cicero, that's what many of them do; I suspect Obama does the same, despite
> being not indictable to read a wrong speech but this faux pas can't be
> regarded as a piccadillo for reasons aforementioned.
>
>
>
> Having said that, perhaps a phraseologically self short-charging was used by
> saying: "He must call it quits." These words were used with the knowledge
> that ZANU isn't just a one man show, president Mugabe certainly has fidus
> Achates in his party some whom he was in the trenches with he can pass the
> baton to. If he feels he could still run the relay without handing over the
> baton to a new energized sprinter, it then smacks of scepticism for his own
> comrades so mishaps like reading anachronistic speeches will continue. Where
> he mentally agile, as he is known to be, he was supposed to rehash the
> speech triggered by an engram, no one would have noticed and we wouldn't be
> having this debate today.
>
>
>
> It will be naive to think that he isn't been taken advantage of because of
> his age. By whom it may be asked? Not by the Imperialist West, certainly not
> by compradors in the MDC but by his own comrades in ZANU because such
> speeches are not simply put on a lectern for a reader, even eloquent
> preachers visit the Bible in the absence of congregants and pretend the next
> day to be au fait with the gospel when delivering a homily.
>
>
>
> Fears that if he steps down there shall be political upheaval in Zimbabwe
> and that may spill over to South Africa. Then this is like a deferment of
> the inevitable because president Mugabe is not immortal. As we speak a
> countless number of our Zimbabwe brothers and sisters are in South Africa
> some whom white settlers take advantage of because of their illegal status.
>
> It's time president Mugabe handed the baton to a trusted comrade who would
> run the mile not because of him having read a previously delivered speech
> but of his dotage seen by us ‘his admirers’ and I repeat ‘HIS ADMIRERS.’
>
>
>
> From: payco@googlegroups.com [mailto:payco@googlegroups.com]
> Sent: 21 September 2015 08:14 AM
> To: payco@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Time to call it quits for my Pres.
>
> Dear Comrades
>
> There are two ways to look at this. Oratory goes a long way in drawing mass
> appeal. All organizations that have succeeded had the oratory being integral
> to their success. People used to walk long distances to listen to their
> leaders speak with pep and zest, now they are bused only to listen to
> gobbledygook by uninspiring orators. Look no further than us if you want to
> see this in actual context.
>
> Mugabe on the other hand is a type of speaker whom when he 

RE: [PAYCO] Time to call it quits for my Pres.

[Hulisani]

Comrade Linda, any ideas on who should succeed Oldman RG Mugabe and his peers 
in ZANU- PF leadership? I think though ZANU-PF is keenly aware of the 
succession matter and is probably fairly prepared for the inevitable departure 
of Mugabe and his peers. 

 
> Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Time to call it quits for my Pres.
> To: payco@googlegroups.com
> From: kwamendeb...@webmail.co.za
> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 17:48:02 +
> 
> I think our love for the old man to a certain extent blind us to reality. 
> That Mugabe is old is an undeniable fact? That he's now susceptible to things 
> that happens to older people such as tripping on stairways, falling in the 
> bathroom, getting ill often and ofcourse reading a wrong speech without 
> realizing. Oflate the oldman has been committing serious mistakes that 
> embarrasses all of us, example was when he made statements loaded with tribal 
> hatred recently. 
> 
> Ofcourse the persons in the Presidents Office responsible for speech writing 
> and Head of the President's office must be taken to task for this blunder. 
> Having said that, the President cannot be absolved from this blunder, he 
> should have realized whilst reading the speech that he had once read it. If 
> the President reads his speeches with comprehension he could have realised on 
> the first 2 paragraphs of the speech except if he couldn't recall because of 
> age.
> 
> I remain convinced comrades that succession has never been this urgent. When 
> our leader Fidel Castro was being overtaken by age he voluntarily handed the 
> baton. The Oldman RG Mugabe must hand the baton. 
> 
> Izwe lethu!
> Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Chargein Mabaso 
> Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 18:55:46 
> To: 
> Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Time to call it quits for my Pres.
> 
> Comrades,
> 
> Let's be serious. This is a serious matter just like when President
> Boris Yeltsin of Russia tripped and staggered infront of the public
> media making mockery of himself. He was redicule and dubbed as being
> drunk on an important occassion and called to resign. .
> 
> Ma-Afrika, there is no way that the State President of a country can
> read a wrong speech in a public platform by accident or omission by
> his personal aids. How can that happen in any country? Where was the
> speech writer who is paid to do that?  I also have the same question.
> Where were the communications department, VIP proetection, security
> and intelligent structures who are paid to protect the image
> (reputation) of the President and that of Zimbabwe as country when
> this fiasco happened? The President is the face of the country. That
> is why enemies of any couuntry target the President as their enemey
> number one. Look at the tight security of President Obama wherever he
> goes. Look at the noise in many papers about  wrong sign language
> interpreter (psychopath) who stood next to President Obama during
> Mandela!s Memorial service.  Any threat against President Obama's life
> and image is a direct threat to America as a country, not just to
> Obama as an individual. What happened to President Mugabe was a clear
> sabotage from within his own camp.  Embarassing the President of a
> country is a punishable offence, if not high treason, for anyone who
> did it, consciously or unconsciously. The whole saga did come as a
> surprise after Mujuru crisis in Zimbabwe, if we know her influence and
> that of her husband in the military, security and intelligence
> structures in Zimbabwe.. I guess so. The whole issue seems to be an
> inside job to deepen the crisis in Zimbabwe and check the reaction of
> the Mugabe:s inner circle. Recently, it was reported on papers that
> few days after Mnangagwa was elected as Vice President at the expense
> of Joyce Muju head, poison was found in his office afer his secretary
> collapdsed and rushed to hospital due to inhalation of the poisonous
> gases (attempted assassination of the second in command). That was
> very serious. Once beaten twice shy. What will be the third move after
> this one? My guess is as good as yours.
> 
> On 9/19/15, Hulisani  wrote:
> > Evening comrades, I wouldn't want to necessary venture into either side of
> > the debate regarding whether or not Mugabe should leave as a matter of
> > urgency. I think the speech incident is being blown out of proportion in so
> > far as Mugabe is being blamed for the oversight. My understanding is that
> > Mugabe has a communication team that assist him with these issues who must
> > make sure the president has the right speech for the right occasion, whether
> > or not he personally wrote the speech himself. So how it ought to work is
> > that someone will type the speech, print it, place it on the pulpit before
> > Mugabe ascends to the podium. This despite whether 

Re: [PAYCO] Time to call it quits for my Pres.

[Chargein Mabaso]

Comrades,

Let's be serious. This is a serious matter just like when President
Boris Yeltsin of Russia tripped and staggered infront of the public
media making mockery of himself. He was redicule and dubbed as being
drunk on an important occassion and called to resign. .

Ma-Afrika, there is no way that the State President of a country can
read a wrong speech in a public platform by accident or omission by
his personal aids. How can that happen in any country? Where was the
speech writer who is paid to do that?  I also have the same question.
Where were the communications department, VIP proetection, security
and intelligent structures who are paid to protect the image
(reputation) of the President and that of Zimbabwe as country when
this fiasco happened? The President is the face of the country. That
is why enemies of any couuntry target the President as their enemey
number one. Look at the tight security of President Obama wherever he
goes. Look at the noise in many papers about  wrong sign language
interpreter (psychopath) who stood next to President Obama during
Mandela!s Memorial service.  Any threat against President Obama's life
and image is a direct threat to America as a country, not just to
Obama as an individual. What happened to President Mugabe was a clear
sabotage from within his own camp.  Embarassing the President of a
country is a punishable offence, if not high treason, for anyone who
did it, consciously or unconsciously. The whole saga did come as a
surprise after Mujuru crisis in Zimbabwe, if we know her influence and
that of her husband in the military, security and intelligence
structures in Zimbabwe.. I guess so. The whole issue seems to be an
inside job to deepen the crisis in Zimbabwe and check the reaction of
the Mugabe:s inner circle. Recently, it was reported on papers that
few days after Mnangagwa was elected as Vice President at the expense
of Joyce Muju head, poison was found in his office afer his secretary
collapdsed and rushed to hospital due to inhalation of the poisonous
gases (attempted assassination of the second in command). That was
very serious. Once beaten twice shy. What will be the third move after
this one? My guess is as good as yours.

On 9/19/15, Hulisani  wrote:
> Evening comrades, I wouldn't want to necessary venture into either side of
> the debate regarding whether or not Mugabe should leave as a matter of
> urgency. I think the speech incident is being blown out of proportion in so
> far as Mugabe is being blamed for the oversight. My understanding is that
> Mugabe has a communication team that assist him with these issues who must
> make sure the president has the right speech for the right occasion, whether
> or not he personally wrote the speech himself. So how it ought to work is
> that someone will type the speech, print it, place it on the pulpit before
> Mugabe ascends to the podium. This despite whether or not the president has
> kept a copy for himself. In my view, if anyone must go with immediate
> effect, it is definitely the speech writer or the head of his communication
> for being casual and not taking their salaried jobs seriously. Even then I
> would say firing who ever is responsible for this will amount to some kind
> of heavy handedness. Overall I think the issue of reading the wrong speech
> is for all intents and purposes trivial. I'm sure for any president, this
> would be the least oversight, which would not warrant calls for a leader to
> step down. I am not sure if age has anything to do with it. Even if it has,
> in the bigger scheme of things (I insist reading a wrong speech is a minor
> oversight, it is not even a transgression), does the reading of the speech
> outweighs all other political considerations for retaining the leader? I
> think not, instead my view is that the media has made sure to sensationalize
> this issue as they always do.
>
>
>> Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 11:13:28 +0200
>> Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Time to call it quits for my Pres.
>> From: chargein...@gmail.com
>> To: payco@googlegroups.com
>>
>> It is not as easy as like that for him, comrade. If Mugabe goes, there
>> will be political upheaval in Zimbabwe. It will mean regime change.
>> His Inner Circle will have to go too. That will be costly. It is the
>> one forcing him to remain in power. It's a political marriage unti
>> death. .even if he wants to go but they are definitely telling not to
>> abandone them. They want Mugabe to rule until his last day on earth so
>> that they can turn him into a deity like Mandela, Lenin, Mao Tse Tung
>> to continue ruling and scare political rivals opposing them as
>> disrespecting Mugabe's last will and vision. This is exactly what is
>> going in PAC. Letlapa Mphahlele may be forced to remain PAC President
>> even when the writing is on the wall for him. He will only voluntarily
>> step down when his Inner Circle in his faction see it it fit. They
>> know his downfall is also theirs. There will be 

RE: [PAYCO] Time to call it quits for my Pres.

[Hulisani]

Evening comrades, I wouldn't want to necessary venture into either side of the 
debate regarding whether or not Mugabe should leave as a matter of urgency. I 
think the speech incident is being blown out of proportion in so far as Mugabe 
is being blamed for the oversight. My understanding is that Mugabe has a 
communication team that assist him with these issues who must make sure the 
president has the right speech for the right occasion, whether or not he 
personally wrote the speech himself. So how it ought to work is that someone 
will type the speech, print it, place it on the pulpit before Mugabe ascends to 
the podium. This despite whether or not the president has kept a copy for 
himself. In my view, if anyone must go with immediate effect, it is definitely 
the speech writer or the head of his communication for being casual and not 
taking their salaried jobs seriously. Even then I would say firing who ever is 
responsible for this will amount to some kind of heavy handedness. Overall I 
think the issue of reading the wrong speech is for all intents and purposes 
trivial. I'm sure for any president, this would be the least oversight, which 
would not warrant calls for a leader to step down. I am not sure if age has 
anything to do with it. Even if it has, in the bigger scheme of things (I 
insist reading a wrong speech is a minor oversight, it is not even a 
transgression), does the reading of the speech outweighs all other political 
considerations for retaining the leader? I think not, instead my view is that 
the media has made sure to sensationalize this issue as they always do. 

 
> Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 11:13:28 +0200
> Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Time to call it quits for my Pres.
> From: chargein...@gmail.com
> To: payco@googlegroups.com
> 
> It is not as easy as like that for him, comrade. If Mugabe goes, there
> will be political upheaval in Zimbabwe. It will mean regime change.
> His Inner Circle will have to go too. That will be costly. It is the
> one forcing him to remain in power. It's a political marriage unti
> death. .even if he wants to go but they are definitely telling not to
> abandone them. They want Mugabe to rule until his last day on earth so
> that they can turn him into a deity like Mandela, Lenin, Mao Tse Tung
> to continue ruling and scare political rivals opposing them as
> disrespecting Mugabe's last will and vision. This is exactly what is
> going in PAC. Letlapa Mphahlele may be forced to remain PAC President
> even when the writing is on the wall for him. He will only voluntarily
> step down when his Inner Circle in his faction see it it fit. They
> know his downfall is also theirs. There will be regime change in the
> PAC too. Bangamafanankosi lamadoda! That's it. He cannot abandfone
> them at this stage. Not NOW! Thami Plaatjies did that. His reputation
> went to zero. His is now a declared traitor to his comrades-in-arms.
> Letlapa does not want to be in the same boat. It's about reputation,
> nothing more.
> 
> Understand Mugabe's dilemma comrade. Those who want him to go are
> vying for his inner circle and Zanu- his lehacy too. Remember: When
> you fire the CEO, you must also fire his inner circle too. You saw
> what happened Egyptian President Mubarak and his inner circle after he
> stepped down. They were under severe attack. Hence, the overthrow of
> the democratically elected President Morsi. Mubarak's regime made
> wrong calculation. Mugabe learned a lesson from President Mubara and
> Gaddafi. He doesn want the same to happen to him. I am sure President
> Zuma has similar fears. His enemies will call for his arrest for his
> role in Matabeleland crisis. Another problem is when Mugabe steps
> down, it will be chaos in Zim. Mugabe is a uniting figure for both
> Zanu and Zimbabwean people. If I was a Zanu member, I will oppose the
> move to force Mugabe to retire without a clear successor.
> Unforetunately, such a successor will not be Mugabe 2 You saw what
> happened to PAC when we said Makwetu must go without succession plan
> in place. It was and is still chaos in PAC till today. We all created
> the PAC chaos unaware and unconsciously. That is why we must all bear
> the consequences now.  It's our mess. We are to blame. PAC went from
> bad to worsE. Same will happen in Zimbabwe. If he dies in power,
> Zimbabweans can handle the transition with care and with the sensitive
> it deserves unlike if he resigns. Resigning will work in the interest
> of the enemies of Zimbabwe. Unfortunate, Zanu is losing good cadres
> like Joyce Mujuru in the meantime. Careerists, opportunists and agents
> are definitely exploitinbg the situation in Zimbabwe for their own
> hidden agendas. The true is, whether we like it or not,  the chaos in
> Zim will spill over to South Africa with positive and negative results
> depending on the balance of forces in our country. It's a great
> challenge, indeed.
> 
> On 9/18/15, Sebenzile Mlaza  wrote:
> >
> >
> > 

Re: [PAYCO] Time to call it quits for my Pres.

[Linda Ndebele]

It was indeed the most embarrassing moment. Succession has never been this 
urgent. The Old Man has played his part, let him hand over the baton.
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: Sebenzile Mlaza 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 06:53:47 
To: 'payco@googlegroups.com'
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: [PAYCO] Time to call it quits for my Pres.



Revolutionary greetings to all,

President Robert Mugabe delivered a State of the Nation Speech he had 
previously delivered.
It's time our good president calls it quits, this is a sign of senility.

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Re: [PAYCO] Time to call it quits for my Pres.

[Chargein Mabaso]

It is not as easy as like that for him, comrade. If Mugabe goes, there
will be political upheaval in Zimbabwe. It will mean regime change.
His Inner Circle will have to go too. That will be costly. It is the
one forcing him to remain in power. It's a political marriage unti
death. .even if he wants to go but they are definitely telling not to
abandone them. They want Mugabe to rule until his last day on earth so
that they can turn him into a deity like Mandela, Lenin, Mao Tse Tung
to continue ruling and scare political rivals opposing them as
disrespecting Mugabe's last will and vision. This is exactly what is
going in PAC. Letlapa Mphahlele may be forced to remain PAC President
even when the writing is on the wall for him. He will only voluntarily
step down when his Inner Circle in his faction see it it fit. They
know his downfall is also theirs. There will be regime change in the
PAC too. Bangamafanankosi lamadoda! That's it. He cannot abandfone
them at this stage. Not NOW! Thami Plaatjies did that. His reputation
went to zero. His is now a declared traitor to his comrades-in-arms.
Letlapa does not want to be in the same boat. It's about reputation,
nothing more.

Understand Mugabe's dilemma comrade. Those who want him to go are
vying for his inner circle and Zanu- his lehacy too. Remember: When
you fire the CEO, you must also fire his inner circle too. You saw
what happened Egyptian President Mubarak and his inner circle after he
stepped down. They were under severe attack. Hence, the overthrow of
the democratically elected President Morsi. Mubarak's regime made
wrong calculation. Mugabe learned a lesson from President Mubara and
Gaddafi. He doesn want the same to happen to him. I am sure President
Zuma has similar fears. His enemies will call for his arrest for his
role in Matabeleland crisis. Another problem is when Mugabe steps
down, it will be chaos in Zim. Mugabe is a uniting figure for both
Zanu and Zimbabwean people. If I was a Zanu member, I will oppose the
move to force Mugabe to retire without a clear successor.
Unforetunately, such a successor will not be Mugabe 2 You saw what
happened to PAC when we said Makwetu must go without succession plan
in place. It was and is still chaos in PAC till today. We all created
the PAC chaos unaware and unconsciously. That is why we must all bear
the consequences now.  It's our mess. We are to blame. PAC went from
bad to worsE. Same will happen in Zimbabwe. If he dies in power,
Zimbabweans can handle the transition with care and with the sensitive
it deserves unlike if he resigns. Resigning will work in the interest
of the enemies of Zimbabwe. Unfortunate, Zanu is losing good cadres
like Joyce Mujuru in the meantime. Careerists, opportunists and agents
are definitely exploitinbg the situation in Zimbabwe for their own
hidden agendas. The true is, whether we like it or not,  the chaos in
Zim will spill over to South Africa with positive and negative results
depending on the balance of forces in our country. It's a great
challenge, indeed.

On 9/18/15, Sebenzile Mlaza  wrote:
>
>
> Revolutionary greetings to all,
>
> President Robert Mugabe delivered a State of the Nation Speech he had
> previously delivered.
> It's time our good president calls it quits, this is a sign of senility.
>
> --
> --
> Sending your posting to payco@googlegroups.com
>
> Unsubscribe by sending an email to payco-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
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> Visit our website at www.mayihlome.wordpress.com
>
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