Re: [PD-dev] local canvas-only pd_bind

[katja]

What will be provided in Pd (if any of this) is up to Miller of
course. The current discussion explores implementation options and
challenges. [mousestate] in mode 1 ('patch relative') comes close to
'GOP-relative' mouse tracking as proposed by Christof Ressi earlier in
this thread.

Unfortunately cyclone GUI bypasses Pd own GUI framework to a large
extent and is still full of 'LATER rethink' and 'FIXME'. That makes it
hard to learn from [mousestate] how to design a mouse class to be
(hopefully) embedded in vanilla. Maybe a cyclone expert can port
[mousestate] to a version employing Pd's own GUI API / core functions
to the best possible extent. With that achieved it will be a small
step to upgrade 'patch-relative' to the more useful 'GOP-relative'.
Such a class would be a dream to have in vanilla.

To be clear: the [mousepad] trial, using Pd's widgetbehavior
interface, can not reasonably be extended to include [mousestate]'s
canvas/screen-wide functionality. These are two totally different
behaviors. A class should do one thing, and do it well.

Katja



On 3/21/19, Alexandre Torres Porres  wrote:
> Yeah, I think you're right Katja.
>
>  But i could still ask how about providing the same functionality from
> [cyclone/mousestate], but maybe in another mouse oriented object? Not sure
> how to call it.
>
>
>
> Em qui, 21 de mar de 2019 às 17:23, katja  escreveu:
>
>> Hi, the concepts of [mousestate] and [mousepad] are different, they
>> complement each other. [mousepad] is a widget, like slider & Co. If
>> they are stacked, only one at a time can have mouse focus.
>> [mousestate] doesn't steal mouse focus of widgets above it. Both
>> concepts have their own use cases.
>>
>> Katja
>>
>>
>> On 3/21/19, Alexandre Torres Porres  wrote:
>> > Em qui, 21 de mar de 2019 às 06:18, Lucas Cordiviola
>> > 
>> > escreveu:
>> >
>> >> [cyclone/mousestate] is very raw compared to [mousepad]. You can have
>> one
>> >> or more [cyclone/mousestate] and they all will just output the same xy
>> >> coords for the screen (not the patch).
>> >>
>> > actually there are 3 modes of operation in [mousestate], but it's not
>> like
>> > I'm defendind the idea we should have the exact same object, design and
>> > functionalities
>> >
>> >
>> >> Probably is very easy for [mousepad] to incorporate an option like
>> >> "global
>> >> sender" to give the same functionality as [cyclone/mousestate].
>> >>
>> >
>> > yup, I think so. I'd be happy with just being able to get mouse clicks
>> > anywhere in my patch window along with coordinates (which could be for
>> the
>> > whole screen or relative to the patch window, two of the options from
>> > [mousestate].
>> >
>> > Well, I don't know, what do you all think?
>> >
>> > cheers
>> >
>>
>



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Re: [PD-dev] local canvas-only pd_bind

[katja]

Hi, the concepts of [mousestate] and [mousepad] are different, they
complement each other. [mousepad] is a widget, like slider & Co. If
they are stacked, only one at a time can have mouse focus.
[mousestate] doesn't steal mouse focus of widgets above it. Both
concepts have their own use cases.

Katja


On 3/21/19, Alexandre Torres Porres  wrote:
> Em qui, 21 de mar de 2019 às 06:18, Lucas Cordiviola
> 
> escreveu:
>
>> [cyclone/mousestate] is very raw compared to [mousepad]. You can have one
>> or more [cyclone/mousestate] and they all will just output the same xy
>> coords for the screen (not the patch).
>>
> actually there are 3 modes of operation in [mousestate], but it's not like
> I'm defendind the idea we should have the exact same object, design and
> functionalities
>
>
>> Probably is very easy for [mousepad] to incorporate an option like
>> "global
>> sender" to give the same functionality as [cyclone/mousestate].
>>
>
> yup, I think so. I'd be happy with just being able to get mouse clicks
> anywhere in my patch window along with coordinates (which could be for the
> whole screen or relative to the patch window, two of the options from
> [mousestate].
>
> Well, I don't know, what do you all think?
>
> cheers
>



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Re: [PD-dev] local canvas-only pd_bind

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

Em qui, 21 de mar de 2019 às 06:18, Lucas Cordiviola 
escreveu:

> [cyclone/mousestate] is very raw compared to [mousepad]. You can have one
> or more [cyclone/mousestate] and they all will just output the same xy
> coords for the screen (not the patch).
>
actually there are 3 modes of operation in [mousestate], but it's not like
I'm defendind the idea we should have the exact same object, design and
functionalities


> Probably is very easy for [mousepad] to incorporate an option like "global
> sender" to give the same functionality as [cyclone/mousestate].
>

yup, I think so. I'd be happy with just being able to get mouse clicks
anywhere in my patch window along with coordinates (which could be for the
whole screen or relative to the patch window, two of the options from
[mousestate].

Well, I don't know, what do you all think?

cheers
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Re: [PD-dev] local canvas-only pd_bind

[Lucas Cordiviola]

On 3/21/2019 6:18 AM, Lucas Cordiviola wrote:

> You can have one or more [cyclone/mousestate] and they all will just 
> output the same xy coords for the screen (not the patch).

I meant many [mousestate] in different opened patches.


Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.



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Re: [PD-dev] local canvas-only pd_bind

[Lucas Cordiviola]

[cyclone/mousestate] is very raw compared to [mousepad]. You can have one or 
more [cyclone/mousestate] and they all will just output the same xy coords for 
the screen (not the patch).

Probably is very easy for [mousepad] to incorporate an option like "global 
sender" to give the same functionality as [cyclone/mousestate].

[mousepad] is totally cool.

:)

Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.

On 3/21/2019 5:30 AM, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
I love the idea of a native 2d slider, but how about providing the same 
functionality from [cyclone/mousestate]?

Em qui, 21 de mar de 2019 às 01:47, Chris McCormick 
mailto:ch...@mccormick.cx>> escreveu:
On 19/3/19 11:17 pm, katja wrote:
> Mousepad code is up for inspection at:
>
> https://github.com/katjav/pd-mouse-trial
This is great!

Cheers,

Chris.

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Re: [PD-dev] local canvas-only pd_bind

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

I love the idea of a native 2d slider, but how about providing the same
functionality from [cyclone/mousestate]?

Em qui, 21 de mar de 2019 às 01:47, Chris McCormick 
escreveu:

> On 19/3/19 11:17 pm, katja wrote:
> > Mousepad code is up for inspection at:
> >
> > https://github.com/katjav/pd-mouse-trial
> This is great!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Chris.
>
> --
> https://mccormick.cx/
>
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Re: [PD-dev] local canvas-only pd_bind

[Chris McCormick]

On 19/3/19 11:17 pm, katja wrote:

Mousepad code is up for inspection at:

https://github.com/katjav/pd-mouse-trial

This is great!

Cheers,

Chris.

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Re: [PD-dev] local canvas-only pd_bind

[Federico Camara Halac]

Hi Katja, et al

Just tried this in Mojave, it works really nice!

I just made an issue with a bit more info:
https://github.com/katjav/pd-mouse-trial/issues/1

Hope it helps!

fede


On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 4:19 PM katja  wrote:

> Mousepad code is up for inspection at:
>
> https://github.com/katjav/pd-mouse-trial
>
> So far it was built on Linux and tested with Pd 0.48 and 0.49, not
> sure if it will work right away on other platforms.
>
> The implementation is unconventional; it doesn't use the iemgui
> framework and replaces Tk properties dialog by an abstraction. This is
> done for reasons explained in the code but I'm not enough of a
> developer to know the difference between innovation and aberration.
> For the moment, maybe just try the test patches to get an impression
> of what mousepad can and can't do.
>
> Katja
>
>
> On 3/17/19, Dan Wilcox  wrote:
> > Katja: Do you have some sample code using this implementation? I've not
> > looked into this in depth yet.
> >
> >> On Mar 17, 2019, at 4:38 PM, katja  wrote:
> >>
> >> Eventually the widget won my preference because it is easier to use,
> >> and because Pd's widgetbehavior infrastructure is made for such things
> >> after all. My implementation is almost complete except for the thing
> >> that sparked the current discussion: mouseup data. It would be great
> >> if a widget could subscribe to mouseup events, but a callback for that
> >> isn't available through widgetbehavior.
> >
> > 
> > Dan Wilcox
> > @danomatika 
> > danomatika.com 
> > robotcowboy.com 
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
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Re: [PD-dev] local canvas-only pd_bind

[katja]

Mousepad code is up for inspection at:

https://github.com/katjav/pd-mouse-trial

So far it was built on Linux and tested with Pd 0.48 and 0.49, not
sure if it will work right away on other platforms.

The implementation is unconventional; it doesn't use the iemgui
framework and replaces Tk properties dialog by an abstraction. This is
done for reasons explained in the code but I'm not enough of a
developer to know the difference between innovation and aberration.
For the moment, maybe just try the test patches to get an impression
of what mousepad can and can't do.

Katja


On 3/17/19, Dan Wilcox  wrote:
> Katja: Do you have some sample code using this implementation? I've not
> looked into this in depth yet.
>
>> On Mar 17, 2019, at 4:38 PM, katja  wrote:
>>
>> Eventually the widget won my preference because it is easier to use,
>> and because Pd's widgetbehavior infrastructure is made for such things
>> after all. My implementation is almost complete except for the thing
>> that sparked the current discussion: mouseup data. It would be great
>> if a widget could subscribe to mouseup events, but a callback for that
>> isn't available through widgetbehavior.
>
> 
> Dan Wilcox
> @danomatika 
> danomatika.com 
> robotcowboy.com 
>
>
>
>



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Re: [PD-dev] local canvas-only pd_bind

[Chris McCormick]

Hi,

On 18/3/19 12:31 am, Christof Ressi wrote:

personally I would prefer 2), simply because it allows you to build custom 
widgets as Pd abstractions. a tracking area can be built quite easily with GOP.


Mouseup is a bit of a maverick: you want to be alerted regardless of
mouse position, i.e. any canvas or even outside Pd's territory.
Otherwise one could easily get the equivalent of a dangling midinote.
I wanted to provide an illustration of what is possible with just a 
mouse-up event in vanilla Pd.


Here is a small animated gif screen screen capture of two abstractions:

https://raw.githubusercontent.com/chr15m/pd-push-and-hold/master/screencast-examples.gif

These use the pd-push-and-hold GUI plugin which sends global mouse-up 
events. Other than that they are built using one vanilla hslider and a 
canvas each. The plugin is available via externals search.


The first one is useful when you are building effects which have a 
quantized range that you want to operate with a finger on a touch 
screen. For example if you are playing live music and you want a 
punch-in effect to turn on when you're pressing, and the ability to 
quickly switch between four versions/settings of that effect (for 
example four different delay line timings, or four different synth notes 
to be played as you drag.


The second one is useful for selecting a start/end range. So you might 
hook it up to a sample looper and you can use a finger on a touch-screen 
to select small ranges to loop over in real time.


Anyway, I've scratched my own itch with this plugin for the Raspberry Pi 
touchscreen thing I am building.


If the mouse-up event was made into a global that would do away with the 
need for a plugin.


If there was a 2d surface which worked like hslider + vslider in a 
single UI that would enable even more interesting widgets to be crafted 
as abstractions.


Cheers,

Chris.

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Re: [PD-dev] local canvas-only pd_bind

[Chris McCormick]

Hi,

On 17/3/19 11:38 pm, katja wrote:

Mouseup is a bit of a maverick: you want to be alerted regardless of
mouse position, i.e. any canvas or even outside Pd's territory.
Otherwise one could easily get the equivalent of a dangling midinote.
Therefore, would it be reasonable to conceive a dedicated class
[mouseup], every instance of which would be informed about every
mouseup event once?


Agree, and Jean-Yves suggestion on the other thread does this but from 
the Tk side which is not as useful as you need to have the user install 
a UI plugin to make it work. If a widget had mouse sensing like the one 
you describe elsewhere then you'd want it to universally receive mouseup.



Anyhow, the other mouse events (mousedown, coordinates) are so much
related to position that bundling these in a single class is useful,
be it in a widget or otherwise.
Yep and I think you've had a lot of experience with my exact use-case 
here which is touchscreen-enabled Raspberry Pi.


My preferred design (please excuse me while I ungratefully conjure a 
bunch of work for someone):


 * Object just like cnv (hopefully just cnv).
 * Has a checkbox for "report mouse events".
 * When there is a mouse-down inside its rectangle it reports it with 
(x, y).
 * Once it has "grab" it outputs all mouse-move events with both (dx, 
dy) and also (x, y).
 * Once it has "grab" it catches the universal mouse-up event and 
reports it with (x, y).
 * (x, y) should be relative to the object's internal top-left 
position, so it can tell where the mouse is relative to itself.


The global receiver ideas are great and I am sure would be useful to 
others but for me personally at this time I can do that stuff with GUI 
plugins so it is less important.


> Such a class could also be useful in connection
> with existing Pd GUIs, for example to turn a single-cell radiobutton
> into a momentary switch.

Exactly yes, with the [cnv] changes above you'd be able to build things 
like piano rolls, touch-pads, ribbon controllers, min-max selectors and 
probably many things we haven't thought of, as abstractions.


As you point out all of this would likely require modifying 
widgetbehaviour, unless mouse-up can be special-cased into one object 
like cnv.


Cheers,

Chris.

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Re: [PD-dev] local canvas-only pd_bind

[Fred Jan Kraan]

A precursor of this code can be found at 
https://github.com/electrickery/pd-playground/tree/master/GUI in the 
GUI5.c and GUI6.c objects.


Greetings,

Fred Jan

On 17/03/2019 22.27, katja wrote:

Dan, the code isn't published but could be shared somewhere for the
purpose of discussion if that is useful. Not sure what is a good
place.

Frankly I've spent quite some time investigating the subject and my
conclusion is: it is not at all self-evident what a mouse class should
do exactly, even when just considering a widget. IEM GUIs have a
single outlet that produce simple messages of their status. A widget
for mouse data must produce several kinds of data. But being a GUI
element it is also supposed to send and receive data cordless.
Multiple message types over a single 'channel', that means we have to
use message selectors even if the messages are just floats. And when
using message selectors for cordless communication, it makes sense to
do the same for the 'physical' outlet rather than define an outlet per
message type. This alone makes it an anomaly among the GUI objects. It
is not the only doubt that I had, maybe now is the time to discuss.

Despite my earlier promotional words about Pd's widgetbehavior
infrastructure, I'd like to mention a major advantage of a
'message-to-canvas' approach if that is a feasible alternative: no
need for Tk-related code in the class definition. If a mouse widget
can be emulated as a GOP abstraction like proposed by Christof,
existing IEM GUIs could be emulated in a similar fashion. Property
boxes can also be implemented in the form of abstractions rather than
Tk widgets. That is what I've done for my [mousepad] widget as well.
As a bonus, the mouse widget itself can be incorporated in the
properties box to manipulate the width and height of the object under
concern. No need for cumbersome handles that double the code size!

Katja



On 3/17/19, Dan Wilcox  wrote:

Katja: Do you have some sample code using this implementation? I've not
looked into this in depth yet.


On Mar 17, 2019, at 4:38 PM, katja  wrote:

Eventually the widget won my preference because it is easier to use,
and because Pd's widgetbehavior infrastructure is made for such things
after all. My implementation is almost complete except for the thing
that sparked the current discussion: mouseup data. It would be great
if a widget could subscribe to mouseup events, but a callback for that
isn't available through widgetbehavior.


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika 
danomatika.com 
robotcowboy.com 







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Re: [PD-dev] local canvas-only pd_bind

[katja]

Dan, the code isn't published but could be shared somewhere for the
purpose of discussion if that is useful. Not sure what is a good
place.

Frankly I've spent quite some time investigating the subject and my
conclusion is: it is not at all self-evident what a mouse class should
do exactly, even when just considering a widget. IEM GUIs have a
single outlet that produce simple messages of their status. A widget
for mouse data must produce several kinds of data. But being a GUI
element it is also supposed to send and receive data cordless.
Multiple message types over a single 'channel', that means we have to
use message selectors even if the messages are just floats. And when
using message selectors for cordless communication, it makes sense to
do the same for the 'physical' outlet rather than define an outlet per
message type. This alone makes it an anomaly among the GUI objects. It
is not the only doubt that I had, maybe now is the time to discuss.

Despite my earlier promotional words about Pd's widgetbehavior
infrastructure, I'd like to mention a major advantage of a
'message-to-canvas' approach if that is a feasible alternative: no
need for Tk-related code in the class definition. If a mouse widget
can be emulated as a GOP abstraction like proposed by Christof,
existing IEM GUIs could be emulated in a similar fashion. Property
boxes can also be implemented in the form of abstractions rather than
Tk widgets. That is what I've done for my [mousepad] widget as well.
As a bonus, the mouse widget itself can be incorporated in the
properties box to manipulate the width and height of the object under
concern. No need for cumbersome handles that double the code size!

Katja



On 3/17/19, Dan Wilcox  wrote:
> Katja: Do you have some sample code using this implementation? I've not
> looked into this in depth yet.
>
>> On Mar 17, 2019, at 4:38 PM, katja  wrote:
>>
>> Eventually the widget won my preference because it is easier to use,
>> and because Pd's widgetbehavior infrastructure is made for such things
>> after all. My implementation is almost complete except for the thing
>> that sparked the current discussion: mouseup data. It would be great
>> if a widget could subscribe to mouseup events, but a callback for that
>> isn't available through widgetbehavior.
>
> 
> Dan Wilcox
> @danomatika 
> danomatika.com 
> robotcowboy.com 
>
>
>
>



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Re: [PD-dev] local canvas-only pd_bind

[Dan Wilcox]

Katja: Do you have some sample code using this implementation? I've not looked 
into this in depth yet.

> On Mar 17, 2019, at 4:38 PM, katja  wrote:
> 
> Eventually the widget won my preference because it is easier to use,
> and because Pd's widgetbehavior infrastructure is made for such things
> after all. My implementation is almost complete except for the thing
> that sparked the current discussion: mouseup data. It would be great
> if a widget could subscribe to mouseup events, but a callback for that
> isn't available through widgetbehavior.


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika 
danomatika.com 
robotcowboy.com 



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Re: [PD-dev] local canvas-only pd_bind

[Christof Ressi]

hi katja,

personally I would prefer 2), simply because it allows you to build custom 
widgets as Pd abstractions. a tracking area can be built quite easily with GOP.

> Mouseup is a bit of a maverick: you want to be alerted regardless of
> mouse position, i.e. any canvas or even outside Pd's territory.
> Otherwise one could easily get the equivalent of a dangling midinote.

that's an important point! I've worked a bit with GUI toolkits like Qt and 
usually it's implemented so that if you click a widget, it has the current 
"grab", and whenever you release the mouse, the widget which has the grab gets 
the mouseup event. we can do a similar thing in Pd.

but there are more general questions about parent/child releationships:

with iemguts you directly specify the parent canvas from which you want to 
receive mouse events. the bad thing is that [receivecanvas] is context 
sensitive: you have to know where your abstraction is being used and give the 
right parent level!! this is quite bad for implementing widgets, which should 
work anywhere. so I'm actually a bit wary about the iemguts approach (although 
I've brought it up).

on the other hand, when you receive mouse events from a GOP, you can do that on 
any level as long as the object is visible. you can easily nest GOPs and every 
GOP which is under the cursor will receive the click message. however, there's 
no event passing like in Qt: all widgets in question get the event (probably 
starting from the inmost canvas). this means that there can be more than one 
"grab" - rather a "grab list" which is then notified for mouseup events.

another question for mouseup events is if only widgets with a "grab" should get 
the event - or also widgets which fall under the current cursor position? the 
second could be handy for drop funtionality. maybe this could be 
controlled by a creation argument/flag.

Christof

> Gesendet: Sonntag, 17. März 2019 um 16:38 Uhr
> Von: "katja" 
> An: "Christof Ressi" 
> Cc: pd-dev , "Dan Wilcox" 
> Betreff: Re: [PD-dev] local canvas-only pd_bind
>
> Hello,
> 
> Metoo, I'm hungry for mouse events since long. Last year I evaluated
> these approaches (as objects based on unmodified Pd):
> 
> 1 - as a basic widget, a rectangle without button or label
> 2 - as a non-widget, tracking mouse events within a GOP rectangle
> 
> Eventually the widget won my preference because it is easier to use,
> and because Pd's widgetbehavior infrastructure is made for such things
> after all. My implementation is almost complete except for the thing
> that sparked the current discussion: mouseup data. It would be great
> if a widget could subscribe to mouseup events, but a callback for that
> isn't available through widgetbehavior.
> 
> Mouseup is a bit of a maverick: you want to be alerted regardless of
> mouse position, i.e. any canvas or even outside Pd's territory.
> Otherwise one could easily get the equivalent of a dangling midinote.
> Therefore, would it be reasonable to conceive a dedicated class
> [mouseup], every instance of which would be informed about every
> mouseup event once? Such a class could also be useful in connection
> with existing Pd GUIs, for example to turn a single-cell radiobutton
> into a momentary switch.
> 
> Anyhow, the other mouse events (mousedown, coordinates) are so much
> related to position that bundling these in a single class is useful,
> be it in a widget or otherwise.
> 
> 
> Katja
> 
> On 3/17/19, Christof Ressi  wrote:
> > on the other hand, I'm not sure if many people actually need to get mouse
> > evens outside of GOP areas. I'm having a hard time coming up with useful
> > examples on the fly...
> > so a simplified version of [mouse] could just get the relative coordinates
> > of the first GOP area it can find (so you can place it anywhere inside your
> > abstraction/graph). for advanced use cases, there's always iemguts... just
> > thinking out loud.
> >
> > Christof
> >
> > Gesendet: Sonntag, 17. März 2019 um 16:07 Uhr
> > Von: "Christof Ressi" 
> > An: "Dan Wilcox" 
> > Cc: pd-dev 
> > Betreff: Re: [PD-dev] local canvas-only pd_bind
> > personally, I like the mechanism of [iemguts/receivecanvas] where you
> > specify the parent level from where to receive mouse events because it's
> > quite flexible. one problem, though, is that GOPs are a bit awkward: you
> > have to get the mouse position from the parent canvas and then substract the
> > canvasposition to get coordinates relative to the GOP. you can even hack
> > together mouse enter and leave events to create advanced widgets, but it
> > involves quite a lot of thinking.
> >
> > maybe the iemguts

Re: [PD-dev] local canvas-only pd_bind

[katja]

Hello,

Metoo, I'm hungry for mouse events since long. Last year I evaluated
these approaches (as objects based on unmodified Pd):

1 - as a basic widget, a rectangle without button or label
2 - as a non-widget, tracking mouse events within a GOP rectangle

Eventually the widget won my preference because it is easier to use,
and because Pd's widgetbehavior infrastructure is made for such things
after all. My implementation is almost complete except for the thing
that sparked the current discussion: mouseup data. It would be great
if a widget could subscribe to mouseup events, but a callback for that
isn't available through widgetbehavior.

Mouseup is a bit of a maverick: you want to be alerted regardless of
mouse position, i.e. any canvas or even outside Pd's territory.
Otherwise one could easily get the equivalent of a dangling midinote.
Therefore, would it be reasonable to conceive a dedicated class
[mouseup], every instance of which would be informed about every
mouseup event once? Such a class could also be useful in connection
with existing Pd GUIs, for example to turn a single-cell radiobutton
into a momentary switch.

Anyhow, the other mouse events (mousedown, coordinates) are so much
related to position that bundling these in a single class is useful,
be it in a widget or otherwise.


Katja

On 3/17/19, Christof Ressi  wrote:
> on the other hand, I'm not sure if many people actually need to get mouse
> evens outside of GOP areas. I'm having a hard time coming up with useful
> examples on the fly...
> so a simplified version of [mouse] could just get the relative coordinates
> of the first GOP area it can find (so you can place it anywhere inside your
> abstraction/graph). for advanced use cases, there's always iemguts... just
> thinking out loud.
>
> Christof
>
> Gesendet: Sonntag, 17. März 2019 um 16:07 Uhr
> Von: "Christof Ressi" 
> An: "Dan Wilcox" 
> Cc: pd-dev 
> Betreff: Re: [PD-dev] local canvas-only pd_bind
> personally, I like the mechanism of [iemguts/receivecanvas] where you
> specify the parent level from where to receive mouse events because it's
> quite flexible. one problem, though, is that GOPs are a bit awkward: you
> have to get the mouse position from the parent canvas and then substract the
> canvasposition to get coordinates relative to the GOP. you can even hack
> together mouse enter and leave events to create advanced widgets, but it
> involves quite a lot of thinking.
>
> maybe the iemguts approach with parent levels can be somehow combined with
> elegant GOP handling? for example, [iemguts/receivecanvas] will never send
> mouse events if GOP is enabled on the given parent (except when someone
> opens it via the context menu), so maybe in this case the object could
> report mouse events relative to the GOP area. working with parent levels has
> the advantage that you can freely choose the location within you patch
> structure, e.g. you can put it in a subpatch and you just have to increase
> the parent level by 1.
>
> Christof
> Gesendet: Sonntag, 17. März 2019 um 14:28 Uhr
> Von: "Dan Wilcox" 
> An: "Christof Ressi" 
> Cc: pd-dev , "Chris McCormick" 
> Betreff: Re: [PD-dev] local canvas-only pd_bind
> Some good ideas.
>
> I agree that GOP is basically a natural analogy to a tracking area already,
> so that might be a good place to look. Perhaps this can be rolled into the
> name canvas mechanism whereby a named canvas will receive mouse events when
> GOP is enabled?
>
>>
>> Hi Dan, thanks for looking into this! This is really, really needed.
>>
>> I think with the [mouse] object, [mousearea] can be easily created as a 
>> subpatch with GOP enabled, so I don't think we need a dedicated GUI object 
>> for that.
>>
>> regarding [cnv]: I think getting notifications for mouse clicks would be 
>> nice (in the past, people have faked this by putting other GUI objects below 
>> the canvas, but it's really clumsy).
>>
>>
>> Christof
>
>
>>>
>>> On Mar 17, 2019, at 1:38 PM, Dan Wilcox  wrote:
>>>
>>> That's a similar concept to Cocoa's NSTrackingArea. It's basically a
>>> rectangle in a view that you attach which then receives mouse enter,
>>> leave, move, down, up, & drag events. You can update the position and
>>> size whenever.
>>>
>>> https://developer.apple.com/documentation/appkit/nstrackingarea?language=objc
>>>
>>> I could imagine something similar in Pd, say a [mousearea] object. Also,
>>> updating [cnv] with similar functionality would be useful. [mousearea]
>>> could be used for arbitrary areas for control interaction and drawing of
>>> other objects while [cnv]

Re: [PD-dev] local canvas-only pd_bind

[Christof Ressi]

personally, I like the mechanism of [iemguts/receivecanvas] where you specify the parent level from where to receive mouse events because it's quite flexible. one problem, though, is that GOPs are a bit awkward: you have to get the mouse position from the parent canvas and then substract the canvasposition to get coordinates relative to the GOP. you can even hack together mouse enter and leave events to create advanced widgets, but it involves quite a lot of thinking.

 


maybe the iemguts approach with parent levels can be somehow combined with elegant GOP handling? for example, [iemguts/receivecanvas] will never send mouse events if GOP is enabled on the given parent (except when someone opens it via the context menu), so maybe in this case the object could report mouse events relative to the GOP area. working with parent levels has the advantage that you can freely choose the location within you patch structure, e.g. you can put it in a subpatch and you just have to increase the parent level by 1.

 

Christof


Gesendet: Sonntag, 17. März 2019 um 14:28 Uhr
Von: "Dan Wilcox" 
An: "Christof Ressi" 
Cc: pd-dev , "Chris McCormick" 
Betreff: Re: [PD-dev] local canvas-only pd_bind



Some good ideas.

 

I agree that GOP is basically a natural analogy to a tracking area already, so that might be a good place to look. Perhaps this can be rolled into the name canvas mechanism whereby a named canvas will receive mouse events when GOP is enabled?
 

Hi Dan, thanks for looking into this! This is really, really needed.

I think with the [mouse] object, [mousearea] can be easily created as a subpatch with GOP enabled, so I don't think we need a dedicated GUI object for that.

regarding [cnv]: I think getting notifications for mouse clicks would be nice (in the past, people have faked this by putting other GUI objects below the canvas, but it's really clumsy).


Christof

 


On Mar 17, 2019, at 1:38 PM, Dan Wilcox <danomat...@gmail.com> wrote:
 

That's a similar concept to Cocoa's NSTrackingArea. It's basically a rectangle in a view that you attach which then receives mouse enter, leave, move, down, up, & drag events. You can update the position and size whenever.

 

https://developer.apple.com/documentation/appkit/nstrackingarea?language=objc


 

I could imagine something similar in Pd, say a [mousearea] object. Also, updating [cnv] with similar functionality would be useful. [mousearea] could be used for arbitrary areas for control interaction and drawing of other objects while [cnv] could be used to create simple graphical regions for things like piano keys. I know there have been different approaches in this area, so it might be helpful to take a look (DesireData, PurrData, etc).

 

I think this would complement a general, canvas wide set of [mouse] objects. I started by following the existing approach and split functionality into [mouse], [mouseup], and [mousemotion]. Another approach would be to use a single [mouse] object with a status symbol in addition to x & y.










 






 




Dan Wilcox

@danomatika

danomatika.com

robotcowboy.com

 









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Re: [PD-dev] local canvas-only pd_bind

[Dan Wilcox]

Some good ideas.

I agree that GOP is basically a natural analogy to a tracking area already, so 
that might be a good place to look. Perhaps this can be rolled into the name 
canvas mechanism whereby a named canvas will receive mouse events when GOP is 
enabled?

> Hi Dan, thanks for looking into this! This is really, really needed.
> 
> I think with the [mouse] object, [mousearea] can be easily created as a 
> subpatch with GOP enabled, so I don't think we need a dedicated GUI object 
> for that.
> 
> regarding [cnv]: I think getting notifications for mouse clicks would be nice 
> (in the past, people have faked this by putting other GUI objects below the 
> canvas, but it's really clumsy).
> 
> 
> Christof

>> On Mar 17, 2019, at 1:38 PM, Dan Wilcox  wrote:
>> 
>> That's a similar concept to Cocoa's NSTrackingArea. It's basically a 
>> rectangle in a view that you attach which then receives mouse enter, leave, 
>> move, down, up, & drag events. You can update the position and size whenever.
>> 
>> https://developer.apple.com/documentation/appkit/nstrackingarea?language=objc
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> I could imagine something similar in Pd, say a [mousearea] object. Also, 
>> updating [cnv] with similar functionality would be useful. [mousearea] could 
>> be used for arbitrary areas for control interaction and drawing of other 
>> objects while [cnv] could be used to create simple graphical regions for 
>> things like piano keys. I know there have been different approaches in this 
>> area, so it might be helpful to take a look (DesireData, PurrData, etc).
>> 
>> I think this would complement a general, canvas wide set of [mouse] objects. 
>> I started by following the existing approach and split functionality into 
>> [mouse], [mouseup], and [mousemotion]. Another approach would be to use a 
>> single [mouse] object with a status symbol in addition to x & y.


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika 
danomatika.com 
robotcowboy.com 



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Re: [PD-dev] local canvas-only pd_bind

[Christof Ressi]

Hi Dan, thanks for looking into this! This is really, really needed.

 

I think with the [mouse] object, [mousearea] can be easily created as a subpatch with GOP enabled, so I don't think we need a dedicated GUI object for that.

 

regarding [cnv]: I think getting notifications for mouse clicks would be nice (in the past, people have faked this by putting other GUI objects below the canvas, but it's really clumsy).

 

Christof

 

Gesendet: Sonntag, 17. März 2019 um 13:38 Uhr
Von: "Dan Wilcox" 
An: "Chris McCormick" 
Cc: pd-dev 
Betreff: Re: [PD-dev] local canvas-only pd_bind


That's a similar concept to Cocoa's NSTrackingArea. It's basically a rectangle in a view that you attach which then receives mouse enter, leave, move, down, up, & drag events. You can update the position and size whenever.
 

https://developer.apple.com/documentation/appkit/nstrackingarea?language=objc


 

I could imagine something similar in Pd, say a [mousearea] object. Also, updating [cnv] with similar functionality would be useful. [mousearea] could be used for arbitrary areas for control interaction and drawing of other objects while [cnv] could be used to create simple graphical regions for things like piano keys. I know there have been different approaches in this area, so it might be helpful to take a look (DesireData, PurrData, etc).

 

I think this would complement a general, canvas wide set of [mouse] objects. I started by following the existing approach and split functionality into [mouse], [mouseup], and [mousemotion]. Another approach would be to use a single [mouse] object with a status symbol in addition to x & y.


 

On Mar 17, 2019, at 12:15 PM, Chris McCormick <ch...@mccormick.cx> wrote:
 

Hi Dan,

Thanks so much for looking at this.

What I really want as an end-user is to be able to know "has this particular rectangle received mouse-down, mouse-motion, or mouse-up?"

I think this would bring huge flexibility in allowing people to build complex user interfaces at the patch level. Things like ribbon controllers max/min selectors, click-and-hold buttons etc.

Cheers,

Chris.

On 16/3/19 10:01 am, Dan Wilcox wrote:

Howdy all,
I played around a bit with forwarding canvas mouse click events to a [mouse] object. This works fine using a bind to a global "#mouse" symbol, however this means all objects receive events from all canvases.
How can I change this to be local canvas only, as in only [mouse] objects within the canvas receive the events? I was thinking to generate a symbol with the canvas id ala how [openpanel] and [savepanel] work:
    sprintf(buf, "d%lx", (t_int)x);
    x->x_s = gensym(buf);
    x->x_canvas = canvas_getcurrent();
    pd_bind(>x_obj.ob_pd, x->x_s)
However, this means the canvas mouse function would need to generate the equivalent symbol each time the event is called in order to check if anything is bound to it. This seems wasteful. I suppose I could add a cached symbol somewhere, maybe to the g_canvas instance struct, however I'd like avoid that.

Dan Wilcox



 




Dan Wilcox

@danomatika

danomatika.com

robotcowboy.com

 



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Re: [PD-dev] local canvas-only pd_bind

[Dan Wilcox]

That's a similar concept to Cocoa's NSTrackingArea. It's basically a rectangle 
in a view that you attach which then receives mouse enter, leave, move, down, 
up, & drag events. You can update the position and size whenever.

https://developer.apple.com/documentation/appkit/nstrackingarea?language=objc 


I could imagine something similar in Pd, say a [mousearea] object. Also, 
updating [cnv] with similar functionality would be useful. [mousearea] could be 
used for arbitrary areas for control interaction and drawing of other objects 
while [cnv] could be used to create simple graphical regions for things like 
piano keys. I know there have been different approaches in this area, so it 
might be helpful to take a look (DesireData, PurrData, etc).

I think this would complement a general, canvas wide set of [mouse] objects. I 
started by following the existing approach and split functionality into 
[mouse], [mouseup], and [mousemotion]. Another approach would be to use a 
single [mouse] object with a status symbol in addition to x & y.

> On Mar 17, 2019, at 12:15 PM, Chris McCormick  wrote:
> 
> Hi Dan,
> 
> Thanks so much for looking at this.
> 
> What I really want as an end-user is to be able to know "has this particular 
> rectangle received mouse-down, mouse-motion, or mouse-up?"
> 
> I think this would bring huge flexibility in allowing people to build complex 
> user interfaces at the patch level. Things like ribbon controllers max/min 
> selectors, click-and-hold buttons etc.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Chris.
> 
> On 16/3/19 10:01 am, Dan Wilcox wrote:
>> Howdy all,
>> I played around a bit with forwarding canvas mouse click events to a [mouse] 
>> object. This works fine using a bind to a global "#mouse" symbol, however 
>> this means all objects receive events from all canvases.
>> How can I change this to be local canvas only, as in only [mouse] objects 
>> within the canvas receive the events? I was thinking to generate a symbol 
>> with the canvas id ala how [openpanel] and [savepanel] work:
>> sprintf(buf, "d%lx", (t_int)x);
>> x->x_s = gensym(buf);
>> x->x_canvas = canvas_getcurrent();
>> pd_bind(>x_obj.ob_pd, x->x_s)
>> However, this means the canvas mouse function would need to generate the 
>> equivalent symbol each time the event is called in order to check if 
>> anything is bound to it. This seems wasteful. I suppose I could add a cached 
>> symbol somewhere, maybe to the g_canvas instance struct, however I'd like 
>> avoid that.
>> 
>> Dan Wilcox


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika 
danomatika.com 
robotcowboy.com 



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