On Mon, 21 Feb 2011, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
I agree avoiding horizontal connections is good. the 5% of the time
when segmented patch cord are useful is when you need to take a patch
cord from the bottom to the top of a patch to make a loop.
You mean that you only need to make loops 5
On Feb 19, 2011, at 9:50 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
--- On Sun, 2/20/11, Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca wrote:
From: Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca
Subject: Re: [PD] FLOSS book Lists chapter
To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com
Cc: pd-list@iem.at
Date: Sunday, February 20, 2011
de...@thesaddj.com;
Cc: pd-list@iem.at;
Subject: Re: [PD] FLOSS book Lists chapter
Sent: Sat, Feb 19, 2011 6:48:10 PM
On Feb 19, 2011, at 12:46 PM, Marco Donnarumma wrote:
This made me think of a help to revealing (2). If an interface
were to have hover-over tooltips, as has been discussed
: [PD] FLOSS book Lists chapter
To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com
Cc: pd-list@iem.at
Date: Sunday, February 20, 2011, 5:01 AM
On Sat, 19 Feb 2011, Jonathan Wilkes
wrote:
So what exactly are people referring to, other than
some anecdotal evidence about some students somewhere who
maybe it's time to change the subject of this thread?
M
So what exactly are people referring to, other than
some anecdotal evidence about some students somewhere who
made some patches with some segmented patch cords that they
thought looked bad?
I mean that they might be
On Wed, 16 Feb 2011, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
I don't understand this process. I understand the order, but why, for
example, does
[./sigmund~] create an instance of the sigmund~ class?
It's not like shell commands : even relative names that contain slashes
are looked for in the -path. In that
--- On Sun, 2/20/11, Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca wrote:
From: Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca
Subject: Re: [PD] FLOSS book Lists chapter
To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com
Cc: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@eds.org, pd-list@iem.at
Date: Sunday, February 20, 2011, 11:31 PM
On Fri, 18 Feb 2011, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
That's all true. I guess I'm limiting it to unwanted ambiguities that
_cannot_ be resolved by looking at the patch. So things like fanouts
and [r] creation order wouldn't count as long as having a different
connection/creation order doesn't upset
On Fri, 18 Feb 2011, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
On Feb 16, 2011, at 8:27 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
1 Don't have wires overlapping object boxes, object xlets, or object text*
2 Avoid horizontal wires
- good layout to represent the flow of the data
- encapsulation into rational chunks
- and
On Fri, 18 Feb 2011 17:48:21 -0800 (PST)
Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com wrote:
I guess I'm limiting it to unwanted ambiguities that
_cannot_ be resolved by looking at the patch.
Maybe we could look at it in another way, and ask what information
is hidden in a patch? Most we have
This made me think of a help to revealing (2). If an interface
were to have hover-over tooltips, as has been discussed at times
for outlets/inlets, then a cable could reveal its creation
order on hover.
It wouldn't obviate triggers, but would make a nice debugging
feature.
+1
--
On Feb 19, 2011, at 12:46 PM, Marco Donnarumma wrote:
This made me think of a help to revealing (2). If an interface
were to have hover-over tooltips, as has been discussed at times
for outlets/inlets, then a cable could reveal its creation
order on hover.
It wouldn't obviate triggers, but
How can you say that segmented patch cords are bad 95% of the time when they
are not even available in Pd 100% of the time?
Just to take Miller#39;s Techniques as an example, if there were segmented
patch cords then all of his horizontal connections could be made unambiguous by
having about
If you never depend on connection order (which you sholdn#39;t because, as
we#39;ve discussed, it is visually ambiguous), then how exactly would that
help you debug?
-Jonathan
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UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management
Regarding ambiguity, I#39;d say a good rule of thumb is that one should be
able to draw the patch on a sheet of paper without introducing any ambiguity.
So things like inlet tool tips and cord shaking don#39;t resolve ambiguity in
the visual representation of the patch, though they may be
On Sat, 19 Feb 2011, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
How can you say that segmented patch cords are bad 95% of the time when
they are not even available in Pd 100% of the time? Just to take
Miller's Techniques as an example, if there were segmented patch cords
then all of his horizontal connections
--- On Sat, 2/19/11, Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca wrote:
From: Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca
Subject: Re: [PD] FLOSS book Lists chapter
To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com
Cc: pd-list@iem.at
Date: Saturday, February 19, 2011, 10:42 PM
On Sat, 19 Feb 2011, Jonathan Wilkes
On Sat, 19 Feb 2011, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
I'll continue to argue if hc gives me some Pd examples that back up his
95% bad claim. But unless I'm missing a turn on segmented patch
cords checkbutton buried in a menu somewhere, I believe this is the end
of the argument.
The claim has been
--- On Sun, 2/20/11, Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca wrote:
From: Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca
Subject: Re: [PD] FLOSS book Lists chapter
To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com
Cc: pd-list@iem.at
Date: Sunday, February 20, 2011, 1:40 AM
On Sat, 19 Feb 2011, Jonathan Wilkes
On Sat, 19 Feb 2011, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
So what exactly are people referring to, other than some anecdotal
evidence about some students somewhere who made some patches with some
segmented patch cords that they thought looked bad?
I mean that they might be referring to anecdotal evidence
--- On Sun, 2/20/11, Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca wrote:
From: Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca
Subject: Re: [PD] FLOSS book Lists chapter
To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com
Cc: pd-list@iem.at
Date: Sunday, February 20, 2011, 5:01 AM
On Sat, 19 Feb 2011, Jonathan Wilkes
/17/11, Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca wrote:
From: Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca
Subject: Re: [PD] FLOSS book Lists chapter
To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com
Cc: padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk, pd-list@iem.at
Date: Thursday, February 17, 2011, 9:25 PM
On Thu, 17 Feb 2011
--- On Fri, 2/18/11, Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk wrote:
From: Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk
Subject: Re: [PD] FLOSS book Lists chapter
To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com
Cc: Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca, pd-list@iem.at
Date: Friday, February 18, 2011, 7:46 PM
On Feb 16, 2011, at 8:27 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
--- On Thu, 2/17/11, Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk wrote:
From: Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk
Subject: Re: [PD] FLOSS book Lists chapter
To: Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca
Cc: pd-list@iem.at
Date: Thursday
I created a new account on booki with my same account name:
HansChristophSteiner. Seemed to work fine.
.hc
On Feb 17, 2011, at 6:10 AM, adam hyde wrote:
hey
i am working on this at the moment (see list if youa re still
sub'ed...just mailed it about this). hope it is sorted out next week
On Feb 17, 2011, at 10:04 AM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
On Thu, 17 Feb 2011, Frank Barknecht wrote:
IIRC the latest version of the RjDj app is not yet using libpd, but
for the Inception movie tie-in app, which uses Pd/RjDj inside as
well, the team has already made the switch to libpd, which
--- On Sat, 2/19/11, Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at wrote:
From: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at
Subject: Re: [PD] FLOSS book Lists chapter
To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com
Cc: Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca, Andy Farnell
padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk, pd-list@iem.at
Hi,
On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 09:36:52PM +, Andy Farnell wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2011 15:44:02 -0500 (EST)
Is RjDj using ZenGarden, or LibPd, or both ?
Actually neither right now, tis Miller Vanilla with a little extra
goodness by Amaury Hazan and Paul Brossier to make it work on those
On Thu, 17 Feb 2011, Frank Barknecht wrote:
IIRC the latest version of the RjDj app is not yet using libpd, but for
the Inception movie tie-in app, which uses Pd/RjDj inside as well, the
team has already made the switch to libpd, which is planned for future
RjDj apps as well.
But what was
if { $xlets_involved 2 } { menu_doc_open attachment_dir horiz-connections.pd }
On Wed, 16 Feb 2011, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
1 Don't have wires overlapping object boxes, object xlets, or object text*
2 Avoid horizontal wires
What else is there?
What's the problem with horizontal wires ?
On Thu, 17 Feb 2011, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
if { $xlets_involved 2 } { menu_doc_open attachment_dir horiz-connections.pd }
Error: Success
Now what's the problem with horizontal wires ?
I mean those that aren't overlapping any inlets or outlets, not the ones
in your patch. (We already
On Wed, 16 Feb 2011 20:39:33 -0500 (EST)
Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca wrote:
With Pd-extended's opaque boxes, you could be making mistakes involving
NON-identical boxes on top of each other. But frankly, I don't recall this
happening. (I was also the first one to advocate opaque
--- On Thu, 2/17/11, Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca wrote:
From: Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca
Subject: Re: [PD] FLOSS book Lists chapter
To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com
Cc: padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk, pd-list@iem.at
Date: Thursday, February 17, 2011, 9:25 PM
On Thu, 17
--- On Thu, 2/17/11, Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk wrote:
From: Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk
Subject: Re: [PD] FLOSS book Lists chapter
To: Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca
Cc: pd-list@iem.at
Date: Thursday, February 17, 2011, 9:28 PM
On Wed, 16 Feb 2011 20:39:33
On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 03:09:35PM -0800, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
--- On Tue, 2/15/11, Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca wrote:
The idea of Vanilla-without-externals is probably most
useful to ZenGarden users, who can't compile any existing
externals, because ZenGarden was designed to be
On Tue, 15 Feb 2011 13:19:35 -0500 (EST)
Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca wrote:
The idea of Vanilla-without-externals is probably most useful to ZenGarden
users, who can't compile any existing externals, because ZenGarden was
designed to be incompatible with Pd-Vanilla. It is because of
On Wed, 16 Feb 2011, Andy Farnell wrote:
The sensitivity of sound to small changes in implementation has been on
my mind from the start, so if you like the emphasis was on a reliably
portable functional equivalence without code compatability. I have
always taken this, perhaps presumptuously,
On Wed, 16 Feb 2011 15:44:02 -0500 (EST)
Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2011, Andy Farnell wrote:
principles. Without it the slogan The diagram is the program fails,
When I came up with that slogan, I wasn't thinking about portability nor
functional
On Wed, 16 Feb 2011, Andy Farnell wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2011 15:44:02 -0500 (EST)
Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2011, Andy Farnell wrote:
principles. Without it the slogan The diagram is the program fails,
When I came up with that slogan, I wasn't thinking about
--- On Wed, 2/16/11, Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca wrote:
From: Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca
Subject: Re: [PD] FLOSS book Lists chapter
To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com
Cc: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@eds.org, pd-list@iem.at
Date: Wednesday, February 16, 2011, 5:28 AM
On Wed, 16 Feb 2011 16:55:24 -0500 (EST)
Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca wrote:
I don't see how the sentence « those diagrams are source code » doesn't
say that there's (almost) a one-to-one correspondence.
Yikes, I tried running that through De Morgans
What is it you _do_ see there?
--- On Thu, 2/17/11, Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk wrote:
From: Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk
Subject: Re: [PD] FLOSS book Lists chapter
To: Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca
Cc: pd-list@iem.at
Date: Thursday, February 17, 2011, 1:24 AM
On Wed, 16 Feb 2011 16:55:24
On Thu, 17 Feb 2011, Andy Farnell wrote:
Yikes, I tried running that through De Morgans
What is it you _do_ see there? Or does the law of the excluded
middle prevent us from straying there? :)
Well, I'm just saying that the diagramme is the programme. Any inferences
about portability and
On Wed, 16 Feb 2011, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
1 Don't have wires overlapping object boxes, object xlets, or object text*
2 Avoid horizontal wires
What else is there?
What's the problem with horizontal wires ?
___
| Mathieu
On Sun, 13 Feb 2011, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
As well as in svn, where, for example, list-abs is in the abstractions
folder, but there are plenty of libraries in externals that are made
up only of abstractions.
That might because it's forbidden for any externals to be in the
abstractions
On Sun, 13 Feb 2011, Pedro Lopes wrote:
Once again, I(we've discussed this before) it seems that there is an
urgent name/concept-convention need. Just brainstorming, but a nice
exercise would be:
Could you please explain how this table ought to be filled ? That is,
explain the meaning of
--- On Tue, 2/15/11, Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca wrote:
From: Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca
Subject: Re: [PD] FLOSS book Lists chapter
To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com
Cc: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@eds.org, pd-list@iem.at
Date: Tuesday, February 15, 2011, 7:19 PM
On Tue, 15 Feb 2011, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
--- On Tue, 2/15/11, Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca wrote:
Yeah, that's nonsense. Pd-vanilla is the origin of the
m_pd.h interface for making externals.
Btw-- the manual makes a distinction between abstractions and
externs.
It needs to, at
On Fri, 11 Feb 2011, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
A false dichotomy is made between abstractions and externals.
Such a false dichotomy is also used on the front page of
http://puredata.info/ :
« It is easy to extend Pd by writing object classes (externals) or
patches (abstractions). »
I
Once again, I(we've discussed this before) it seems that there is an urgent
name/concept-convention need.
Just brainstorming, but a nice exercise would be:
concept meaning dev user some thoughts
abstraction ?? ?(seems the most easy
--- On Sun, 2/13/11, Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca wrote:
From: Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca
Subject: Re: [PD] FLOSS book Lists chapter
To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com
Cc: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@eds.org, pd-list@iem.at
Date: Sunday, February 13, 2011, 5:46 PM
I just updated the Lists chapter in the FLOSS Manuals Pure Data book,
I'd love to have some people review it:
http://booki.flossmanuals.net/pure-data/edit/
.hc
Using ReBirth is like trying to play an 808 with a
HC: I don't think the Booki pages are meant to be used yet. Proper URL
would be:
http://en.flossmanuals.net/bin/view/PureData/Lists
To Adam and Aco: will the old stuff get synched/transferred to the new
Booki pages at some point? Will the URL of the Pd FLOSS Manual change to
the Booki one?
A false dichotomy is made between abstractions and externals. Also there are
many externals that don#39;t include abstractions but are nonetheless
compatible with Pd vanilla.
word or symbol creates a false dichotomy.
Also: it isn#39;t made clear what is special about list messages as opposed
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