Re: [PD] pd x 0.41
I am putting out 0.40 extended then 0.41 next. I usually wait until Miller finishes his release cycle before starting mine, since it has been too much extra work to track his changes while they were happening. .hc On May 11, 2008, at 1:01 AM, marius schebella wrote: hans, will there be a 0.41 extended? or are you waiting for 0.42? what did you do to get pd.tk working with (grey) colors in 0.40? I tried to put the pd.tk from 0.40ext in 0.41, but the objectboxes look blurry and black. thanks, marius. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea, which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession of everyone, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it.- Thomas Jefferson ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Object size Pd Extended
From the screenshot it looks like the right font is loaded, but it is messed up, since the p and g are higher than the other letters, for example. Looks like you are running Ubuntu/Hardy. Which language are you using? It works fine on both of my Ubuntu/Hardy machines, and it worked before on Feisty and Gutsy. My guess is still that something is wrong with your machines font handling. Which version of Tcl/Tk do you have installed? .hc On May 9, 2008, at 10:34 PM, Alex Lucas wrote: Hello everyone, Hans thank you for your reply. I did what you suggested but unfortunately the problem is still there. I also reinstalled Pd- extended. The output from the terminal is provided below. It seems the Bitstream fonts were already installed. Regards Alex sudo aptitude install ttf-bitstream-vera Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done Reading extended state information Initialising package states... Done Building tag database... Done No packages will be installed, upgraded, or removed. 0 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded. Need to get 0B of archives. After unpacking 0B will be used. Writing extended state information... Done Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done Reading extended state information Initialising package states... Done Building tag database... Done [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ sudo aptitude install ttf-bitstream-vera Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done Reading extended state information Initialising package states... Done Building tag database... Done No packages will be installed, upgraded, or removed. 0 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded. Need to get 0B of archives. After unpacking 0B will be used. Writing extended state information... Done Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done Reading extended state information Initialising package states... Done Building tag database... Done [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ apt-get install --reinstall x-ttcidfont-conf E: Could not open lock file /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (13 Permission denied) E: Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), are you root? [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ sudo apt-get install --reinstall x-ttcidfont-conf Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 1 reinstalled, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded. Need to get 0B/20.1kB of archives. After this operation, 0B of additional disk space will be used. Do you want to continue [Y/n]? y Preconfiguring packages ... (Reading database ... ^T124971 files and directories currently installed.) Preparing to replace x-ttcidfont-conf 27 (using .../x-ttcidfont- conf_27_all.deb) ... Cleaning up font configuration of x-ttcidfont-conf... Cleaning up category cmap.. Cleaning up category cid.. Cleaning up category truetype.. Unpacking replacement x-ttcidfont-conf ... Setting up x-ttcidfont-conf (27) ... Updating font configuration of x-ttcidfont-conf... Cleaning up category cmap.. Cleaning up category cid.. Cleaning up category truetype.. Updating category truetype.. Updating category cid.. Updating category cmap.. 2008/5/4 Hans-Christoph Steiner [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I'll bet it is having trouble finding the Bitstream Vera fonts. Start out by making sure they are installed: sudo aptitude install ttf-bitstream-vera Then try this: http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2007-10/055576.html .hc On May 4, 2008, at 10:06 PM, Alex Lucas wrote: Hello, I've recently installed Pd Extended 0.40.3 on Ubuntu Hardy Heron 8.04. I seem to be having problems with the size of object boxes whereby the text doesn't seem to fit inside the bounds of the object. I'm using a screen resolution of 1440 x 900, when this is reduced to 1024 x 786 there is no problem. I've also installed Pd Vanilla 0.40-2 which seems to be fine regardless of the screen resolution. Please click on the link below for a screen shot. http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2097/2464690219_11bd0677f5_o.jpg Any help would be greatly appreciated Many thanks Alex ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list -- -- It is convenient to imagine a power beyond us because that means we don't have to examine our own lives., from The Idols of Environmentalism, by Curtis White As we enjoy great advantages from inventions of others, we should be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours; and this we should do freely and generously. -
Re: [PD] pdj in 0.40 and 0.41
On May 10, 2008, at 3:37 AM, marius schebella wrote: marius schebella wrote: Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: The schedlib stuff was added in 0.41, it doesn't exist in 0.40, AFAIK. pdj also runs without schedlib. -schedlib stuff is needed for gui elements and pascal has added a patch for osx that fixes the schedlib thing (osx_extsched_fix.patch), but I am not sure if it gets applied (would be cool if it would, but I don't think it is). this is what pascal sent: ... this patch has not yet been submitted to the pure-data dev list. This patch is only required if you are using Java AWT/Swing GUI elements within your Java code, otherwise everything will work fine. If you really need to use AWT, you will need a more recent version of pure-data that support the -schedlib option with OS X (and 0.40-3 only supports windows). While pd 0.41-2 added the support for OS X and Linux, there is still a small bug that crash pd when you are trying to load a external scheduler. The patch to this is in the source distribution of pdj and it needs to be applied to a pd 0.41-2 version. the patched pd-version does not crash with -schedlib anymore. marius. That patch applies to code that is not in 0.40.3, IIRC, so nothing I can do about this release. .hc All information should be free. - the hacker ethic ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] UI developer volunteering to help
Wow, what an improvement! I like it a lot. I have some comments: - minor thing, maybe there could be less space on the sides, so the panel would be narrower? - about the Apply button, I think it should only show up on platforms where it is a common thing. On Mac OS X, it should just be OK and Cancel. On Windows, there should be Apply. I think GNOME has moved away from Apply, but I don't know anything about KDE. - some separation of the buttons on the right column would make things clearer, I think. Like maybe Up/Down on the right side, and then Add..., Edit..., and Delete on the bottom? Or maybe just changing Up and Down to arrows? - the startup thing is trickier. I think that the textfield for entering values should be embedded into the panel instead of a popup. Also, it doesn't seem to work for me (I am using 0.41-4 vanilla). I can't add items to the list. I think once this is worked out, the best plan would be to submit a patch to the tracker and assign it to Miller. Then I'll also include it in Pd-extended. .hc On May 11, 2008, at 2:25 AM, David Golightly wrote: Just verified against my own install of Pd-extended-0.40.3 on OS X 10.4 - enough differences exist otherwise in the nightlies that this version of the file will only work with 0.41.4. Attached is an updated (slightly bugfixed) version. So... what's the procedure for checking in to svn :)? -David On Sat, May 10, 2008 at 4:24 PM, David Golightly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well scratch that then, perhaps that will only work when you're building pd on your own machine. If you launch Pd from Terminal, you might see error output in that terminal window - that would be helpful to have. On Sat, May 10, 2008 at 3:17 PM, marius schebella [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I tried this with pd extended 0.40-3, but did not get a startup pref window at all and the path window was very small and empty. (os x, 10.5.) marius. David Golightly wrote: And, here's a version with an updated Startup dialog. Simply copy this to bin/pd.tk http://pd.tk (make a backup first!) to try it out. On Sat, May 10, 2008 at 12:48 PM, David Golightly [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, May 10, 2008 at 12:36 PM, Steffen Juul [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 10/05/2008, at 19.48, David Golightly wrote: Ok, after a busy week this is what I've been able to come up with for the Path dialog. Looking really good! The browse functionality is a fair idiom in a such GUI as oppose to entering text, i think. Thanks! I've often been kind of frustrated that I have to type in the full directory name rather than simply browsing to it. For the keyboard-inclined, however, text entry should still be possible. One comment: I have a beef with the functionality of the buttons. Not the Cancel one. The others. 'Apply' does something. 'Ok' does 'apply' plus 'cancel'. 'Save...' does 'Apply' plus saves. But it says the list is only gonna work from next time Pd is lunched, why i don't get the 'Apply' and 'Ok'. 'Ok' should do save and cancel. Thats all one wants, anit? I agree. I've preserved the pre-existing functionality for those buttons from before, but do we really need both Save and Apply?Currently, Save also saves preferences (verbose use standard extensions). I think that should also happen when you click Apply, so we can do away with the Save button, and also make sure that the message about needing to restart PD pops up when you click OK or Apply. I'm thinking about adapting this UI for the Startup dialog - shouldn't be hard to do - except instead of choosing directories you want to enter arbitrary text. I haven't checked your code but i suppose most proc's can be reused? I've set up some various key bindings so I want to make sure it seems usable for everyone. Nice. What are they? Default key bindings for the listbox widget give you up and down keys to select, I've added Delete to delete the current selection, and Return to open the browse dialog (same as pressing Edit). So far I've only tested this on Mac OS X OS X.4 here. -- -- ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list u_main.tk ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list http://at.or.at/hans/
Re: [PD] UI developer volunteering to help
I just thought of one other thing: I think it would be very useful if Path, Startup, Audio Settings, and MIDI settings where all tabs in one panel, instead of four separate panels. .hc On May 11, 2008, at 1:29 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: Wow, what an improvement! I like it a lot. I have some comments: - minor thing, maybe there could be less space on the sides, so the panel would be narrower? - about the Apply button, I think it should only show up on platforms where it is a common thing. On Mac OS X, it should just be OK and Cancel. On Windows, there should be Apply. I think GNOME has moved away from Apply, but I don't know anything about KDE. - some separation of the buttons on the right column would make things clearer, I think. Like maybe Up/Down on the right side, and then Add..., Edit..., and Delete on the bottom? Or maybe just changing Up and Down to arrows? - the startup thing is trickier. I think that the textfield for entering values should be embedded into the panel instead of a popup. Also, it doesn't seem to work for me (I am using 0.41-4 vanilla). I can't add items to the list. I think once this is worked out, the best plan would be to submit a patch to the tracker and assign it to Miller. Then I'll also include it in Pd-extended. .hc On May 11, 2008, at 2:25 AM, David Golightly wrote: Just verified against my own install of Pd-extended-0.40.3 on OS X 10.4 - enough differences exist otherwise in the nightlies that this version of the file will only work with 0.41.4. Attached is an updated (slightly bugfixed) version. So... what's the procedure for checking in to svn :)? -David On Sat, May 10, 2008 at 4:24 PM, David Golightly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well scratch that then, perhaps that will only work when you're building pd on your own machine. If you launch Pd from Terminal, you might see error output in that terminal window - that would be helpful to have. On Sat, May 10, 2008 at 3:17 PM, marius schebella [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I tried this with pd extended 0.40-3, but did not get a startup pref window at all and the path window was very small and empty. (os x, 10.5.) marius. David Golightly wrote: And, here's a version with an updated Startup dialog. Simply copy this to bin/pd.tk http://pd.tk (make a backup first!) to try it out. On Sat, May 10, 2008 at 12:48 PM, David Golightly [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, May 10, 2008 at 12:36 PM, Steffen Juul [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 10/05/2008, at 19.48, David Golightly wrote: Ok, after a busy week this is what I've been able to come up with for the Path dialog. Looking really good! The browse functionality is a fair idiom in a such GUI as oppose to entering text, i think. Thanks! I've often been kind of frustrated that I have to type in the full directory name rather than simply browsing to it. For the keyboard-inclined, however, text entry should still be possible. One comment: I have a beef with the functionality of the buttons. Not the Cancel one. The others. 'Apply' does something. 'Ok' does 'apply' plus 'cancel'. 'Save...' does 'Apply' plus saves. But it says the list is only gonna work from next time Pd is lunched, why i don't get the 'Apply' and 'Ok'. 'Ok' should do save and cancel. Thats all one wants, anit? I agree. I've preserved the pre-existing functionality for those buttons from before, but do we really need both Save and Apply?Currently, Save also saves preferences (verbose use standard extensions). I think that should also happen when you click Apply, so we can do away with the Save button, and also make sure that the message about needing to restart PD pops up when you click OK or Apply. I'm thinking about adapting this UI for the Startup dialog - shouldn't be hard to do - except instead of choosing directories you want to enter arbitrary text. I haven't checked your code but i suppose most proc's can be reused? I've set up some various key bindings so I want to make sure it seems usable for everyone. Nice. What are they? Default key bindings for the listbox widget give you up and down keys to select, I've added Delete to delete the current selection, and Return to open the browse dialog (same as pressing Edit). So far I've only tested this on Mac OS X OS X.4 here. - --- ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list u_main.tk ___ PD-list@iem.at
Re: [PD] UI developer volunteering to help
On Sun, May 11, 2008 1:29 pm, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: - about the Apply button, I think it should only show up on platforms where it is a common thing. On Mac OS X, it should just be OK and Cancel. On Windows, there should be Apply. I think GNOME has moved away from Apply, but I don't know anything about KDE. KDE seam to have both Apply and OK (and Cancel). But i don't think the actual UI need be platform dependent. That is, i think it matters less then having multiple buttons with different names that hint much the same functionally but don't nessacarily supply that functionality. Apply, Ok and Save in this case - as explained earlier. One easy solution is to remove the Save button and add the save functionality to the Ok button. And then either remove also the Apply button or add the save functionality to that also. So where Save:= Saves changes to file ready for next startup of Pd Cancel:= Cancels i.e. quit the dialog we have: Case i: Cancel Apply:= Save Ok:= Apply + Cancel Case ii: Cancel Ok:= Save + Cancel That said, I'd like to underline that i think the improvements already done are much more impotent then this clearing of confusion of the UI. I shall rest my case now (or submit a patch). ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] UI developer volunteering to help
Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: I just thought of one other thing: I think it would be very useful if Path, Startup, Audio Settings, and MIDI settings where all tabs in one panel, instead of four separate panels. Thanks Hans, for bringing that up, I second that. I think it is better organized, if there is one preferences or settings menu, that will let you change all different things. I also think that the audio settings should not be split, like it is now (in extended?) preferences - audio midi and the media - portaudio/jack settings. I think these could be unified, too. marius. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] UI developer volunteering to help
Oops, one other detail with the encode proc. While namespaces are
probably the current way to handle function names, they are not used
for any other functions in u_main.tk So for this function, I think
it should be called something like pdtk_encodelist without the
namespace, then grouped with pdtk_encode. Something like this:
proc pdtk_encodelist {listdata} {
set outlist {}
foreach this_path $listdata {
if {0==[string match $this_path]} {
lappend outlist [pdtk_encodedialog $this_path]
}
}
return $outlist
}
Then perhaps namespaces can be introduced later as a more systematic
approach.
.hc
On May 11, 2008, at 3:15 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
I just thought of one other thing: I think it would be very useful
if Path, Startup, Audio Settings, and MIDI settings where all tabs
in one panel, instead of four separate panels.
.hc
On May 11, 2008, at 1:29 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Wow, what an improvement! I like it a lot. I have some comments:
- minor thing, maybe there could be less space on the sides, so
the panel would be narrower?
- about the Apply button, I think it should only show up on
platforms where it is a common thing. On Mac OS X, it should just
be OK and Cancel. On Windows, there should be Apply. I think
GNOME has moved away from Apply, but I don't know anything about KDE.
- some separation of the buttons on the right column would make
things clearer, I think. Like maybe Up/Down on the right side,
and then Add..., Edit..., and Delete on the bottom? Or maybe just
changing Up and Down to arrows?
- the startup thing is trickier. I think that the textfield for
entering values should be embedded into the panel instead of a
popup. Also, it doesn't seem to work for me (I am using 0.41-4
vanilla). I can't add items to the list.
I think once this is worked out, the best plan would be to submit
a patch to the tracker and assign it to Miller. Then I'll also
include it in Pd-extended.
.hc
On May 11, 2008, at 2:25 AM, David Golightly wrote:
Just verified against my own install of Pd-extended-0.40.3 on OS
X 10.4 - enough differences exist otherwise in the nightlies that
this version of the file will only work with 0.41.4.
Attached is an updated (slightly bugfixed) version.
So... what's the procedure for checking in to svn :)?
-David
On Sat, May 10, 2008 at 4:24 PM, David Golightly
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Well scratch that then, perhaps that will only work when you're
building pd on your own machine. If you launch Pd from Terminal,
you might see error output in that terminal window - that would
be helpful to have.
On Sat, May 10, 2008 at 3:17 PM, marius schebella
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I tried this with pd extended 0.40-3, but did not get a startup
pref window at all and the path window was very small and empty.
(os x, 10.5.)
marius.
David Golightly wrote:
And, here's a version with an updated Startup dialog. Simply
copy this to bin/pd.tk http://pd.tk (make a backup first!) to
try it out.
On Sat, May 10, 2008 at 12:48 PM, David Golightly
[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Sat, May 10, 2008 at 12:36 PM, Steffen Juul [EMAIL PROTECTED]
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 10/05/2008, at 19.48, David Golightly wrote:
Ok, after a busy week this is what I've been able to
come up
with for the Path dialog.
Looking really good! The browse functionality is a fair
idiom in
a such GUI as oppose to entering text, i think.
Thanks! I've often been kind of frustrated that I have to
type in
the full directory name rather than simply browsing to it.
For the
keyboard-inclined, however, text entry should still be possible.
One comment: I have a beef with the functionality of the
buttons. Not the Cancel one. The others. 'Apply' does
something.
'Ok' does 'apply' plus 'cancel'. 'Save...' does 'Apply' plus
saves. But it says the list is only gonna work from next
time Pd
is lunched, why i don't get the 'Apply' and 'Ok'. 'Ok'
should do
save and cancel. Thats all one wants, anit?
I agree. I've preserved the pre-existing functionality for those
buttons from before, but do we really need both Save and
Apply?Currently, Save also saves preferences (verbose
use standard
extensions). I think that should also happen when you click
Apply, so we can do away with the Save button, and also make
sure that the message about needing to restart PD pops up when
you
click OK or Apply.
I'm thinking about adapting this UI for the Startup
dialog -
shouldn't be hard to do - except instead of choosing
directories you want to enter arbitrary text.
I haven't checked your code but i suppose most proc's
can be
[PD] Gem compilation for abling [pix_film] to open video file (read homer.avi)
Hi all, I'm simply trying to get a simple video (homer.avi) working with [pix_film], but there is a problem: -- [pix_filmNEW]: opening homer.avi with format 1908 ... error: [pix_filmNEW]: unable to open file: homer.avi -- The Gem library included in CCRMA Pd version 0.39.3-extended-rc5 works in loading the file, but I can not use it because it does not support the GEM_SINGLE_CONTEXT variable set to 1 needed for the creation os the gemwin with the fglrx driver (topic discussed recently in [PD] gem crash using fglrx driver in ubuntu). I suppose I have to bind the compilation with some codec library in my system, but which and how? Thanks for helping me! Tommaso ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] chromatic fft
Mirko Maier wrote: hi list, please, i need a hint, is there a possibilty for chromatic control over the fft bins? i think of the pd example I03.resynthesis but having an array with chromatic (or same-distant) intervals for the whole range. i guess eric lyon's fftease library is what you might be looking for. ok, thanx, but which object exactly is it? regs, mirko -- GMX startet ShortView.de. Hier findest Du Leute mit Deinen Interessen! Jetzt dabei sein: http://www.shortview.de/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] fftease-help was Re: chromatic fft
Hi List... i looked at these objects today (very proud because i inally have my flext installation running) ;-) And comparing the flext distribution with the original from here... http://www.sarc.qub.ac.uk/~elyon/LyonSoftware/MaxMSP/FFTease/ The help files from the original are far more descriptive . Shouldnt at least the text-parts be included in pd-extended ?? I think the help files will not work directly because the objects have varying numbers of in- and outlets... Anyway Just a suggestion Luigi Am 11.05.2008 um 21:38 schrieb Mirko Maier: Mirko Maier wrote: hi list, please, i need a hint, is there a possibilty for chromatic control over the fft bins? i think of the pd example I03.resynthesis but having an array with chromatic (or same-distant) intervals for the whole range. i guess eric lyon's fftease library is what you might be looking for. ok, thanx, but which object exactly is it? regs, mirko -- GMX startet ShortView.de. Hier findest Du Leute mit Deinen Interessen! Jetzt dabei sein: http://www.shortview.de/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list --- Luigi Rensinghoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] skype:gigischinke ichat:gigicarlo ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] Pd article in magazine
I have written an introduction article to Pd in a magazine scheduled to be out on May 17. Unfortunately the magazine is written in Japanese and is mainly circulated in Japan. http://gihyo.jp/magazine/SD/archive/2008/200806 The index of this issue approximately reads, - System trouble shooting, logs and monitoring commands - Up to date state of PC UNIX fonts - Other FOSS articles, many are self explanatory by their title. ..which describes the main range of readers. Hopefully this will bring in some new users developers to the community. I would like to thank again all of those who kindly helped me organize the article, and also the entire community. -- David Shimamoto ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] automated subpatch creation
Hi Pd'ers, i've seen some examples where a PD patch creates it's own subpatches on load (or on bang), but havent seen anything in the documentation about it, is there a tute or some details on howto do this i can read up on and refer to while patching? my aim is to create a large bunch of gem/pmpd objects, with slightly varying characteritics (ie: texture map, gem text, physical properties). they will not be created all at once, but need to be done as inputs come into PD (new text file at the moment - though on that point, is there a HTTP API for PD? or not necessarily http). thanks, Joseph -- Joseph Barrows live video performance; web site design; new media artist jjbarrows.artwww.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
