Re: [PD] is $0 the same on every load?
Chris McCormick wrote: I understand. You want throw-away auto-ids. I'm not sure if anyone has come up with a satisfactory way of doing that, but I will have a think about it. At least auto-ids. They shouldn't be thrown more away than they are the same next time :-) Incidentally, How I handle timing is I have a global timer [s-metro] that keeps going up and up, and I use [mod 4] to (for example) have a loop of 4 ticks or [mod 32] for 32 ticks. Sometimes I get crazy and add together two [mod]s to get some weird sounding rhythms. Sounds just like mine. Except I need the concept of parts (like in verse, chorus, etc). I've put some basic stuff together that allow me to specify 8 parts. Each part have a length, and a goto-part so when a part is done it goes to the next one. Besides this you can request a certain part to come up next. This is all reflected and controlled from my bcr. What this means for my ticker is that it has on/off switches for each part, so a given ticker might only output if we're playing part 0 or 2. -- peace, love harmony Atte http://atte.dk | http://myspace.com/attejensen http://anagrammer.dk | http://modlys.dk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] is $0 the same on every load?
Hallo, Atte André Jensen hat gesagt: // Atte André Jensen wrote: I have an abstraction that counts the beats (or 1/8 notes or other note values) and sends out 0, 1, 2, 3 etc for every beat. The idea is to instantiate this for every instrument that needs to know about time. So in one piece it might be two in others 50. A convienient way to store them was simply to refer to $0, since I didn't have to worry about making some unique identifier up for each instance. Does it make sense? I don't yet understand: What exactly do you want to store? Generally one should not assume anything about $0 except that it is a unique number in every .pd-file. Well, currently you can also assume that it starts at 1000 and will only grow but assuming anything else is bad and will break in the long run. So for sssad: You can use keys like [sssad $0-somekey] but as soon as you save them to a file or message box, you will have something like 1026-somekey in your storage and you can only restore it if you're lucky because 1026 doesn't equal $0. 1026 even is a completely different concept than $0. Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org__ ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] sssad slowness
Hallo, Enrique Erne hat gesagt: // Enrique Erne wrote: i'm pretty sure it's the singleton it dynamically creates stuff onload. The singleton is needed to filter out duplicate keys-value-pairs, which is necessary as sssad was designed to also work with sequential containers like textfile or message boxes, but only with hash-type containers like [pool]. So [sssad] cannot remove the [singleton]. Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org__ ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] sssad slowness
Hallo, Atte André Jensen hat gesagt: // Atte André Jensen wrote: Shouldn't you and sssad's author (Chris?) get together and merge these improvements into sssad? See my other mail. It's not an improvement but a feature removal. Btw.: You can store other things than numbers in sssad. Try storing a list, then you don't need that many sssad objects. Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org__ ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] sssad slowness
On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 07:45:38AM +0200, Atte André Jensen wrote: Wow. Loads in no time (1 sec), and works perfectly. I had problems with somethings not being restored, but I was relying on $0 as unique identifier in those areas, so maybe that's what bid me. Shouldn't you and sssad's author (Chris?) get together and merge these That's Frank, not me. sssad does not cause any loading slowdowns on my system (Vanilla Pd, not pd-extended - if that makes any difference). Best, Chris. --- http://mccormick.cx ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] is $0 the same on every load?
Frank Barknecht wrote: I don't yet understand: What exactly do you want to store? Such tickers would have gui-switches for which parts (like in structure) they're active in. That's what I'd like to store... So for sssad: You can use keys like [sssad $0-somekey] but as soon as you save them to a file or message box, you will have something like 1026-somekey in your storage and you can only restore it if you're lucky because 1026 doesn't equal $0. 1026 even is a completely different concept than $0. Right, I understand. I promise I'll refer from using $0 this way ever again :-) -- peace, love harmony Atte http://atte.dk | http://myspace.com/attejensen http://anagrammer.dk | http://modlys.dk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] sssad slowness
Chris McCormick wrote: That's Frank, not me. Oops... sssad does not cause any loading slowdowns on my system (Vanilla Pd, not pd-extended - if that makes any difference). It might. I'm leaving for hollidays in a few hours, but when I get back, I might try a regular PD install. -- peace, love harmony Atte http://atte.dk | http://myspace.com/attejensen http://anagrammer.dk | http://modlys.dk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] sssad slowness
Frank Barknecht wrote: Hallo, Enrique Erne hat gesagt: // Enrique Erne wrote: i'm pretty sure it's the singleton it dynamically creates stuff onload. The singleton is needed to filter out duplicate keys-value-pairs, which is necessary as sssad was designed to also work with sequential containers like textfile or message boxes, but only with hash-type containers like [pool]. So [sssad] cannot remove the [singleton]. Hi Frank sorry i was not very specific. in fact i did replace the singleton with a little mechanism onload that checks if it is the first and opens up the spigot. all other instances with the same key, that load after the first, wont open the spigot. i think it behaves the same. please check the sssad-help and see inside the toggle []-first my naming is probably bad but if there are no other problems and you approve it would be nice if you could include it into the main version. please check. eni ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] sssad slowness
Enrique Erne wrote: Frank Barknecht wrote: Hallo, Enrique Erne hat gesagt: // Enrique Erne wrote: i'm pretty sure it's the singleton it dynamically creates stuff onload. The singleton is needed to filter out duplicate keys-value-pairs, which is necessary as sssad was designed to also work with sequential containers like textfile or message boxes, but only with hash-type containers like [pool]. So [sssad] cannot remove the [singleton]. Hi Frank sorry i was not very specific. in fact i did replace the singleton with a little mechanism onload that checks if it is the first and opens up the spigot. all other instances with the same key, that load after the first, wont open the spigot. i think it behaves the same. please check the sssad-help and see inside the toggle []-first my naming is probably bad but if there are no other problems and you approve it would be nice if you could include it into the main version. i did some testing with sssad-help.pd and the modified sssad. 1) inside the [sssad key] only the first (most top) instance of sssad has the active toggle. i guess that's due to creation order. 2) [pd SSAD-globals] set-SSSAD_ADMIN prints @key_3: 7 @key_2: 7 @key_1: 7 3) [pd SSAD-globals] activate SSSAD_ADMIN then save-SSSAD_ADMIN prints SSSAD_ADMIN: save SSSAD_ADMIN: list persist key 7 i think that is the correct behavior. the only thing that bothers me is the naming. maybe it would be better to replace the mechanism with the original. value $1.SSSAD.req +1 sel 0 etc. what do you think? eni ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] sssad slowness
Enrique Erne wrote: i did some testing with sssad-help.pd and the modified sssad. 1) inside the [sssad key] only the first (most top) instance of sssad has the active toggle. i guess that's due to creation order. one thing i noticed is that your version does not work on the fly, everything works fine wwhen you open a new patch containing 2 instances of [sssad key]. however, it doesn't always work so like this. e.g.: if i create a new [sssad key] object it will be first (toggle on) if i create another [sssad key] object, it will be first again! (toggle on). i haven't done any functional tests. fmg,af IOhannes ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] is $0 the same on every load?
Atte André Jensen schreef: So for sssad: You can use keys like [sssad $0-somekey] but as soon as you save them to a file or message box, you will have something like 1026-somekey in your storage and you can only restore it if you're lucky because 1026 doesn't equal $0. 1026 even is a completely different concept than $0. hmm.. so what if i have for example a delay abstraction which a GOP gui, and i want to have multiple instances of this abstraction? i suppose i'd have to name each one individually, passing a name on initialisation? what if i have a delay abstraction inside a synth abstraction, and i want two instances of the synth abstraction? then i have two instances of the delay abstraction but no easy way to name them without messily chaining up the name strings... from memory this is one of the reasons why i have yet to knuckle down and figure out sssad for my own stuff - my state saving system is current a piece of paper with pencil numbers scrawled all over it. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] is $0 the same on every load?
Damian Stewart wrote: Atte André Jensen schreef: So for sssad: You can use keys like [sssad $0-somekey] but as soon as you save them to a file or message box, you will have something like 1026-somekey in your storage and you can only restore it if you're lucky because 1026 doesn't equal $0. 1026 even is a completely different concept than $0. hmm.. so what if i have for example a delay abstraction which a GOP gui, and i want to have multiple instances of this abstraction? i suppose i'd have to name each one individually, passing a name on initialisation? what if i have a delay abstraction inside a synth abstraction, and i want two instances of the synth abstraction? then i have two instances of the delay abstraction but no easy way to name them without messily chaining up the name strings... hmm, the subject suggests this is about $0, so i am not sure whether i fully understand your question (or what you are missing): just use $0-mydel. that $0 is not 1026 shouldn't be a problem for you either. mfga.sdr IOhannes ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] is $0 the same on every load?
Damian Stewart wrote: my state saving system is current a piece of paper with pencil numbers scrawled all over it. I like paper, but I think sssad is cooler :-) -- peace, love harmony Atte http://atte.dk | http://myspace.com/attejensen http://anagrammer.dk | http://modlys.dk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] sssad slowness
IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: Enrique Erne wrote: i did some testing with sssad-help.pd and the modified sssad. 1) inside the [sssad key] only the first (most top) instance of sssad has the active toggle. i guess that's due to creation order. one thing i noticed is that your version does not work on the fly, everything works fine wwhen you open a new patch containing 2 instances of [sssad key]. however, it doesn't always work so like this. e.g.: if i create a new [sssad key] object it will be first (toggle on) if i create another [sssad key] object, it will be first again! (toggle on). good to know. i now removed my system (with r and s) and replaced it with the singleton's method with [value]. good thing it now has the same name as before ($1.SSSAD.req). i repeated my test 1 - 3 from before. it seems all correct. additionally i created a new [sssad key] on the fly. this one has now thanks to the original method (of singleton) no initial first setting. ...but if created on the fly it does not have the correct content. --but the original sssad has the same problem afaik. attached is the the latest sssad, please test. eni #N canvas 267 25 773 461 10; #X obj 153 54 inlet; #X obj 153 417 outlet; #X obj 153 395 list; #X obj 176 161 r SSSAD; #X obj 218 134 s SSSAD; #X obj 218 112 list prepend \$1; #X obj 176 189 list trim; #X obj 218 54 inlet; #X obj 56 308 r SSSAD_ADMIN; #X obj 56 356 b; #X obj 56 334 route set; #X obj 153 81 b; #X obj 176 252 route \$1; #X obj 191 282 s \$0-sssad-data; #X obj 372 302 list; #X obj 372 362 list prepend \$1; #X obj 372 389 list prepend persist; #X obj 372 412 s SSSAD_ADMIN; #X obj 372 190 r SSSAD_ADMIN; #X obj 372 236 route save; #X obj 372 258 b; #X obj 395 279 r \$0-sssad-data; #X obj 372 212 spigot; #X obj 550 98 loadbang; #X obj 549 281 tgl 15 0 empty empty empty 17 7 0 10 -262144 -1 -1 1 1; #X text 572 280 - first?; #X obj 550 121 value \$1.SSSAD.req; #X obj 550 220 select 0; #X obj 582 167 + 1; #X obj 582 190 value \$1.SSSAD.req; #X obj 550 146 t a a; #X obj 550 242 f 1; #X connect 0 0 11 0; #X connect 2 0 1 0; #X connect 3 0 6 0; #X connect 5 0 4 0; #X connect 6 0 12 0; #X connect 7 0 5 0; #X connect 8 0 10 0; #X connect 9 0 2 0; #X connect 10 0 9 0; #X connect 11 0 2 0; #X connect 12 0 2 1; #X connect 12 0 13 0; #X connect 14 0 15 0; #X connect 15 0 16 0; #X connect 16 0 17 0; #X connect 18 0 22 0; #X connect 19 0 20 0; #X connect 20 0 14 0; #X connect 21 0 14 1; #X connect 22 0 19 0; #X connect 23 0 26 0; #X connect 26 0 30 0; #X connect 27 0 31 0; #X connect 28 0 29 0; #X connect 30 0 27 0; #X connect 30 1 28 0; #X connect 31 0 22 1; #X connect 31 0 24 0; ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] sssad slowness
Hallo, Enrique Erne hat gesagt: // Enrique Erne wrote: i now removed my system (with r and s) and replaced it with the singleton's method with [value]. good thing it now has the same name as before ($1.SSSAD.req). i repeated my test 1 - 3 from before. it seems all correct. additionally i created a new [sssad key] on the fly. this one has now thanks to the original method (of singleton) no initial first setting. ...but if created on the fly it does not have the correct content. --but the original sssad has the same problem afaik. attached is the the latest sssad, please test. Thanks a lot. This looks good in my quick test and also more simple and elegant than the dynamic patching (which I wasn't too happy with anyway). I'll do some more tests after work, but it seems now all is as with singleton and if it indeed is, I'd like to include your change. Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org__ ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] sssad key-name in abstractions (was: is $0 the same on every load?)
IOhannes m zmoelnig schreef: hmm.. so what if i have for example a delay abstraction which a GOP gui, and i want to have multiple instances of this abstraction? i suppose i'd have to name each one individually, passing a name on initialisation? what if i have a delay abstraction inside a synth abstraction, and i want two instances of the synth abstraction? then i have two instances of the delay abstraction but no easy way to name them without messily chaining up the name strings... hmm, the subject suggests this is about $0, so i am not sure whether i fully understand your question (or what you are missing): just use $0-mydel. that $0 is not 1026 shouldn't be a problem for you either. have changed the subject line to something better ;-) my understanding of sssad is that it requires data be given unique key names. the question is how to generate these unique key names within multiple instances of abstractions. the original discussion was about using $0 to do this, which doesn't seem possible. in your example if i save a bunch of states with eg mydelay-$0-delaytime when $0 is 1026, then go and try to load these up some other time, then $0 is not guaranteed to be 1026. i suppose the solution is to have a delay that takes an instance name argument, eg [mydelay left], then use that instance name in the sssad key, eg mydelay-$1-delaytime, which will create mydelay-left-delaytime for [mydelay left]. but then the problem remains - if i have a synth that has built-in delay [mydelay left], and i want to have two abstractions of this synth, i'm going to end up with two sets of keys mydelay-left-delaytime. so i need some kind of chained name thing, eg [mysynth squelchy] instantiates [mysynth $1-left], so the sssad key will be mydelay-squelchy-left-delaytime. chaining through multiple levels of abstraction like this (which i tend to do when i'm building patches) is going to lead to keynames like mylpf-squelchy-left-sawtooth-lfo-pre-cutoff, for the cutoff frequency of an lfo pre-filter inside the sawtooth generator for the left channel of the 'squelchy' synth. which i suppose isn't a problem, really, it's just a bit messy. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] sssad slowness
Hallo, Enrique Erne hat gesagt: // Enrique Erne wrote: additionally i created a new [sssad key] on the fly. this one has now thanks to the original method (of singleton) no initial first setting. ...but if created on the fly it does not have the correct content. --but the original sssad has the same problem afaik. Yes, that's true, but IMO it's not a big problem: Just press set twice. ;) (The known bigger problem is that deleting the first [sssad key] will break all other [sssad key] until you reload the patch. It will be fixed as soon as Pd gets a closebang.) Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org__ ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] sssad key-name in abstractions
Damian Stewart wrote: i suppose the solution is to have a delay that takes an instance name argument, eg [mydelay left], then use that instance name in the sssad key, eg mydelay-$1-delaytime, which will create mydelay-left-delaytime for [mydelay left]. but then the problem remains - if i have a synth that has built-in delay [mydelay left], and i want to have two abstractions of this synth, i'm going to end up with two sets of keys mydelay-left-delaytime. so i need some kind of chained name thing, eg [mysynth squelchy] instantiates [mysynth $1-left], so the sssad key will be mydelay-squelchy-left-delaytime. the solution is to do it as it is done everywhere else: e.g. namepart of URIs: lists.puredata.info e.g. OSC-addresses: /squelchy/left/time chaining through multiple levels of abstraction like this (which i tend to do when i'm building patches) is going to lead to keynames like mylpf-squelchy-left-sawtooth-lfo-pre-cutoff, for the cutoff frequency of an lfo pre-filter inside the sawtooth generator for the left channel of the 'squelchy' synth. which i suppose isn't a problem, really, it's just a bit messy. once you've got used to namespaces it is not messy any more. at least i prefer setting-files that look like: /squelchy/left/time 10 /squelchy/right/time 20 /squeezy/left/time 20 rather than: 1023-deltime 10 1078-deltime 20 1123-deltime 20 but yes, you have to take care of that yourself. fgmasdr IOhannes ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] sssad key-name in abstractions
Hallo, IOhannes m zmoelnig hat gesagt: // IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: Damian Stewart wrote: i suppose the solution is to have a delay that takes an instance name argument, eg [mydelay left], then use that instance name in the sssad key, eg mydelay-$1-delaytime, which will create mydelay-left-delaytime for [mydelay left]. but then the problem remains - if i have a synth that has built-in delay [mydelay left], and i want to have two abstractions of this synth, i'm going to end up with two sets of keys mydelay-left-delaytime. so i need some kind of chained name thing, eg [mysynth squelchy] instantiates [mysynth $1-left], so the sssad key will be mydelay-squelchy-left-delaytime. the solution is to do it as it is done everywhere else: e.g. namepart of URIs: lists.puredata.info e.g. OSC-addresses: /squelchy/left/time chaining through multiple levels of abstraction like this (which i tend to do when i'm building patches) is going to lead to keynames like mylpf-squelchy-left-sawtooth-lfo-pre-cutoff, for the cutoff frequency of an lfo pre-filter inside the sawtooth generator for the left channel of the 'squelchy' synth. which i suppose isn't a problem, really, it's just a bit messy. once you've got used to namespaces it is not messy any more. at least i prefer setting-files that look like: /squelchy/left/time 10 /squelchy/right/time 20 /squeezy/left/time 20 And with [sssad] the usual practice is to use an additional $1 inside of abstractions as prefix to [sssad] objects. Say you have a synth.pd patch intended to be uses with different settings. Inside of synth.pd you use these: [sssad $1/left/time] [sssad $1/right/time] Then you can use several different synths like this: [synth /bass] [synth /plingy] [synth /drum] etc. Your sssad-savefile will then look like this: /bass/left/time 12 /bass/right/time 28 /plingy/left/time 2137 /plingy/right/time 17 /drum/left/time 56 /drum/right/time 283 sssad-example.pd contains an example which uses sssliders.pd in this fashion. OTOH you can also deliberatly give many [synth]s the same name, if they should share their settings, for example to make a polyphonic synth with 12 copies of the same synth voice. Just make enough [synth /shared] abstractions and control them with [poly] (or use [polypoly]) Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org__ ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] sssad slowness
Frank Barknecht wrote: I'll do some more tests after work, but it seems now all is as with singleton and if it indeed is, I'd like to include your change. that would be very nice. i suppose we could make it also a tiny bit lighter (reducing objects) on cost of readability. but maybe only 1 or 2 connections would cross. eni ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] sssad key-name in abstractions
OTOH you can also deliberatly give many [synth]s the same name, if they should share their settings, for example to make a polyphonic synth with 12 copies of the same synth voice. Just make enough [synth /shared] abstractions and control them with [poly] (or use [polypoly]) wow, never thought of that. of course! ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] finding the cause of clicks when using sssad WAS: saving state of a patch
On Jul 22, 2008, at 2:31 AM, Enrique Erne wrote: Phil Stone wrote: Hi Atte, Now that you're on your way with sssad, there's a nice trick you should know. If you find that loading a preset causes dropouts, consider using a ram disk to hold your presets during performance. This solved all my dropout problems, and it's easy to do (I can post a script for OS X if anyone wants it). The ramdisk thing is definitely handy, I just hope that sssad can be tweaked to work without causing dropouts. Any ideas what the cause is? .hc Looking at things from a more basic level, you can come up with a more direct solution... It may sound small in theory, but it in practice, it can change entire economies. - Amy Smith ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] saving state of a patch
On Jul 21, 2008, at 3:46 PM, Frank Barknecht wrote: Hallo, Atte André Jensen hat gesagt: // Atte André Jensen wrote: Ok, thanks for all the advice, I'll look at sssad, then. First problem: It seems it's there, but broken (is it my that's broken?): Pd-extended is broken in that it cannot load abstractions that are in directories which have the same name as the abstraction. At least that's how I understand the problem. Users of upstream Pd like me aren't affected. Pd-extended is broken is much too broad. Saying the whole thing is broken doesn't help anyone. The problem is somewhere in the relationship of the libdir loader and Pd's logic for checking if it has already loaded a binary library. If you load a libdir called blah, you won't be able to load [blah/blah] or [blah]. .hc However google suggested that I should create [sssad/sssad], Don't believe google: the official name for [sssad] is [sssad]. But see below. and that worked. Unfortunately right-clicking-help totally freezes up my system (something that never happens). What's up with that? Is that just a single bug (so don't click here) or a symptom of something bad? Maybe it's the same issue of pd-extended that makes it fail to load [sssad]? I have no idea. Additional question: I never saw the slash in objects (like in [sssad/ssad]) before, it that some kind of namespace thing? Where can I read more on that, including pros/cons and recommended ways/ conventions? Can of worms here, you may want to read up in the archives. Basically it's like this: If your -path setting points to somedir and there is a directory test in it like somedir/test, then you can load an abstration myabs.pd in test like this: [test/myabs] This use of directory prefixes as a primitive namespace replacement is tricky, however. For one, you also have to set the -helppath to somedir, if you want to let Pd find the test/myabs-help.pd file in. This helpfile next to myabs.pd can use [myabs] directly, without prefix. But if you put the helpfile somewhere else, say into /doc/5.reference, then it won't find [myabs] without directory prefix anymore, so it has to use [test/myabs]. But if it uses [test/myabs] it won't work anymore if you copy myabs.pd and myabs-help.pd directly into your -path or into some other directory with a different name than test! Directory prefixes can make things messy, if you want to just copy abstractions around, e.g. to make self-contained packages or use project directories with everthing included. Pd-extended installs sssad.pd into extra/sssad/sssad.pd and as extra is in your pd-path, you can create [sssad/sssad] in pd-extended as well as [sssad] - or you used to until something broke. I was never fond of the additional and redundant sssad/sssad, but I'm all for freedom of choice so people may do whatever they like. But the official name as far as I'm concerned is [sssad]. As a workaround you can move the content of extra/sssad into the extra directory or another directory of your Pd-path. E.g. if you have a checkout of the Pd subversion trunk in PDSVN, you can use this in your .pdrc: -path PDSVN/trunk/abstractions/footils/sssad/ to always load the trunk version of sssad. Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org__ ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list I have the audacity to believe that peoples everywhere can have three meals a day for their bodies, education and culture for their minds, and dignity, equality and freedom for their spirits. - Martin Luther King, Jr. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] Pd-0.39.2-extended-rc4 released
http://at.or.at/hans/pd/installers.html It's looking quite stable, so please try it if you haven't already so we can find the last bugs. As far as I know, there aren't any outstanding bugs that need to be fixed for this release. Test away and file bugs in the bug tracker! http://puredata.org/dev/bugtracker (the Mac OS X 10.4/Intel build is not up yet, and will hopefully be up tomorrow). .hc It is convenient to imagine a power beyond us because that means we don't have to examine our own lives., from The Idols of Environmentalism, by Curtis White ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Attempt at Tcl/Tk 8.5 Building
FYI: I just tried the 10.5 build on 10.4 (both Intel) and I got the Bus error thing. So perhaps it's related to how Tcl/Tk was built. I rebuilt Tcl/Tk on the 10.5 build machine, so we'll see tomorrow... .hc On Jul 21, 2008, at 6:23 PM, Luke Iannini wrote: Yo, On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 12:53 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Seems like something crashing in Tcl/Tk, but that could still be Pd's fault. Sorry, I don't have any ideas beyond that. My best guess when I gave up was that Pd was still being run by an 8.4.7 wish process... looking through the relevant Pd source code it struck me as possible but I didn't confirm it for sure. Is there a way to see the child processes being spawned by the Pd-extended executable? I opened it via XCode's Instruments (aka gdb) but was overwhelmed quickly Any luck with this? I find [EMAIL PROTECTED] and irc:// irc.freenode.net/tcl to both be quite helpful. Thanks for the TCL list/irc tip, I will go consult with them and see if I can get anywhere. Best Luke .hc On Jul 12, 2008, at 10:27 PM, Luke Iannini wrote: Hi all, I thought I might try to get a build going with Tcl/Tk 8.5 to check out the possible GUI speed improvements. Making darwin_app_core seems to build fine without any changes, but I end up with a Bus error when try to run it (via the terminal) and the crash log is at the bottom of this email. I'm looking through http://wiki.tcl.tk/20361 but maybe someone has some immediate insight. Cheers Luke Process: Pd-0.42.0-test3 [41336] Path: /Users/LukeIannini/PdSVN/packages/darwin_app/build/Pd-0.42.0- test3.app/Contents/MacOS/Pd-0.42.0-test3 Identifier: org.puredata.pd.wish Version: 0.42.0 (2008.07.12) Code Type: X86 (Native) Parent Process: launchd [123] Date/Time: 2008-07-12 19:16:52.650 -0700 OS Version: Mac OS X 10.5.4 (9E17) Report Version: 6 Exception Type: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (SIGBUS) Exception Codes: KERN_PROTECTION_FAILURE at 0x Crashed Thread: 0 Thread 0 Crashed: 0 ??? 00 0 + 0 1 com.tcltk.tcllibrary 0x09ec5460 TclpThreadDataKeyGet + 16 2 com.tcltk.tcllibrary 0x09ec445c Tcl_GetThreadData + 19 3 com.tcltk.tcllibrary 0x09eab7ea TclFreeObj + 105 4 com.tcltk.tcllibrary 0x09ed1cf9 Tcl_GetVar2Ex + 108 5 com.tcltk.tcllibrary 0x09ed1d40 Tcl_GetVar2 + 38 6 com.tcltk.tcllibrary 0x09ed1d7f Tcl_GetVar + 39 7 libPdTcl.dylib0x0992f8eb Pdtcl_Init + 43 (t_tkcmd.c:622) 8 com.tcltk.tcllibrary 0x0a07107f Tcl_LoadObjCmd + 2305 9 com.tcltk.tcllibrary 0x0a00e279 TclEvalObjvInternal + 716 10 com.tcltk.tcllibrary 0x0a04a1e2 TclExecuteByteCode + 4490 11 com.tcltk.tcllibrary 0x0a052e23 TclCompEvalObj + 154 12 com.tcltk.tcllibrary 0x0a0113de TclEvalObjEx + 1025 13 com.tcltk.tcllibrary 0x0a018636 Tcl_IfObjCmd + 786 14 com.tcltk.tcllibrary 0x0a00e279 TclEvalObjvInternal + 716 15 com.tcltk.tcllibrary 0x0a010a2a TclEvalEx + 1728 16 com.tcltk.tcllibrary 0x0a010d8c Tcl_EvalEx + 46 17 com.tcltk.tcllibrary 0x0a06cc61 Tcl_FSEvalFileEx + 616 18 com.tcltk.tklibrary 0x0b01f079 Tk_MainEx + 1680 19 org.puredata.pd.wish 0x000112df main + 41 20 org.puredata.pd.wish 0x0001125e _start + 228 (crt.c:272) 21 org.puredata.pd.wish 0x00011179 start + 41 Thread 0 crashed with X86 Thread State (32-bit): eax: 0xa0976fa0 ebx: 0x09ec52f3 ecx: 0x4d555458 edx: 0x09efd200 edi: 0x esi: 0x0058 ebp: 0xbfffe828 esp: 0xbfffe7cc ss: 0x001f efl: 0x00010282 eip: 0x cs: 0x0017 ds: 0x001f es: 0x001f fs: 0x gs: 0x0037 cr2: 0x ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list - --- http://at.or.at/hans/ ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. - General Smedley Butler
Re: [PD] finding the cause of clicks when using sssad WAS: saving state of a patch
Hi Hans, I don't think this is anything to do with sssad, really. It is due to Pd's lack of a threaded file loader/saver. The way I understand it (and this is borne out by my experience), if a file operation cannot complete within one dsp cycle, the next dsp cycle is delayed until after the file operation completes, thus causing dropouts. Ram disks help (with files that are not too big) because they speed up the file operation to the point where it can happen safely within one dsp period. This has been discussed many times on the list without any hope of change, but it would be so great for Pd's use in live performance if some tasks could be relegated to a background thread. Or, to put it another way, the dsp engine should have highest priority at all times. Phil Stone pkstonemusic.com Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: On Jul 22, 2008, at 2:31 AM, Enrique Erne wrote: Phil Stone wrote: Hi Atte, Now that you're on your way with sssad, there's a nice trick you should know. If you find that loading a preset causes dropouts, consider using a ram disk to hold your presets during performance. This solved all my dropout problems, and it's easy to do (I can post a script for OS X if anyone wants it). The ramdisk thing is definitely handy, I just hope that sssad can be tweaked to work without causing dropouts. Any ideas what the cause is? .hc Looking at things from a more basic level, you can come up with a more direct solution... It may sound small in theory, but it in practice, it can change entire economies. - Amy Smith ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] Fwd: finding the cause of clicks when using sssad WAS: saving state of a patch
I hope im not misunderstanding, but doesn't the s-abstraction way of using 'datastore' to change presets eliminate dropouts - Why is there a need for a ram disk? I mean is there a lag between hitting the giant message box and updating all the abstractions? I was inspired the other day by a Max discussion on the pattr object, which is used for state saving. This in turn can be used from arranging pieces to to creating very nice random instruments that flick between presets very quickly... Is this a problem for sssad at the moment? On 23 Jul 2008, at 15:24, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: On Jul 22, 2008, at 2:31 AM, Enrique Erne wrote: Phil Stone wrote: Hi Atte, Now that you're on your way with sssad, there's a nice trick you should know. If you find that loading a preset causes dropouts, consider using a ram disk to hold your presets during performance. This solved all my dropout problems, and it's easy to do (I can post a script for OS X if anyone wants it). The ramdisk thing is definitely handy, I just hope that sssad can be tweaked to work without causing dropouts. Any ideas what the cause is? .hc Looking at things from a more basic level, you can come up with a more direct solution... It may sound small in theory, but it in practice, it can change entire economies. - Amy Smith ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Fwd: finding the cause of clicks when using sssad WAS: saving state of a patch
Hi Si, The problem Hans and I were discussing relates to storing/loading sssad presets to/from disk. Again, it's not sssad's problem; it's a general issue with Pd. When the dsp service is delayed by long file accesses, dropouts happen. That said, it's important to design sssad-using abstractions so that preset-changing doesn't cause discontinuities as well. For instance, use [line~] lags for changing parameters to smooth out the jump. It's certainly possible to flick btween presets very quickly with sssad-using abstractions; I do it all the time with [polywavesynth]. Phil Stone pkstonemusic.com Si Mills wrote: I hope im not misunderstanding, but doesn't the s-abstraction way of using 'datastore' to change presets eliminate dropouts - Why is there a need for a ram disk? I mean is there a lag between hitting the giant message box and updating all the abstractions? I was inspired the other day by a Max discussion on the pattr object, which is used for state saving. This in turn can be used from arranging pieces to to creating very nice random instruments that flick between presets very quickly... Is this a problem for sssad at the moment? On 23 Jul 2008, at 15:24, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: On Jul 22, 2008, at 2:31 AM, Enrique Erne wrote: Phil Stone wrote: Hi Atte, Now that you're on your way with sssad, there's a nice trick you should know. If you find that loading a preset causes dropouts, consider using a ram disk to hold your presets during performance. This solved all my dropout problems, and it's easy to do (I can post a script for OS X if anyone wants it). The ramdisk thing is definitely handy, I just hope that sssad can be tweaked to work without causing dropouts. Any ideas what the cause is? .hc Looking at things from a more basic level, you can come up with a more direct solution... It may sound small in theory, but it in practice, it can change entire economies. - Amy Smith ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Fwd: finding the cause of clicks when using sssad WAS: saving state of a patch
Hallo, Phil Stone hat gesagt: // Phil Stone wrote: The problem Hans and I were discussing relates to storing/loading sssad presets to/from disk. Again, it's not sssad's problem; it's a general issue with Pd. When the dsp service is delayed by long file accesses, dropouts happen. Yep. Generally everything that touches the disk, is dangerous. [sssad] doesn't touch the disk at all, so it's not guilty here. ;) I would recommend to preload all textfiles that should be streamed to [sssad] into memory. You don't need a ramdisk for that, just enough textfile objects. Those come cheap. Ciao -- Frank ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Fwd: finding the cause of clicks when using sssad WAS: saving state of a patch
Hi Frank, Frank Barknecht wrote: Hallo, Phil Stone hat gesagt: // Phil Stone wrote: The problem Hans and I were discussing relates to storing/loading sssad presets to/from disk. Again, it's not sssad's problem; it's a general issue with Pd. When the dsp service is delayed by long file accesses, dropouts happen. Yep. Generally everything that touches the disk, is dangerous. [sssad] doesn't touch the disk at all, so it's not guilty here. ;) I would recommend to preload all textfiles that should be streamed to [sssad] into memory. You don't need a ramdisk for that, just enough textfile objects. Those come cheap. Six of one, half dozen of the other. :-) That's essentially what I'm doing with a ram disk: preloading textfile objects into memory. The nice thing about it, though, is that your Pd object doesn't have to care - it all looks like a filesytem, whether its from ram disk or hard disk, so you can use both/either according to your needs. Best, Phil ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] Reality Jockey Sprint, August 2008, Barcelona
Hi PD list, Yet another invitation to a weekend of PD hacking at www.realityjockey.com Günter = RJ Sprint, August 2008, Barcelona = RJ sprint2 The second sprint takes place in Barcelona, Spain on August 8,9,10. Again, this date comes with very little notice time but we hope you can make it. We are providing traveling costs and accommodation for 10 People. Send us an email to michael at realityjockey.com if you are up for it. For those of you who are totally new here, please read the posting of our last sprint [1]. We will make it as convenient as possible to join us online for everyone who is on the other side of the planet. The focus of this sprint is still on content creation using PD. We had a lot of progress in our first sprint and some really exiting moments listening to the results. Roman and Guenter are currently preparing a bundle of PD objects, documentation and best practice during the days left to the Barcelona sprint. With the progress we have in the RJ player we are expecting some exiting new concepts and content in Barcelona. Content is king. It is still early days in the RJ world and we are discovering new ways of creating and consuming music with every bit of technical progress in the project. We would love to tell you about this all and encourage your creativity doing RJ tracks. Right now we can offer to you not more and not less than being among the first RJs. Your RJ tracks will be the first tracks download able on the RJ player. If we manage to turn RJ into a success story, your name and your tracks will be part of this success. The topics of the sprint are very much depending on the participants but in general we will tackle the following problems: * RJ composition framework, what is the best way doing the job? * Create new RJ tracks, go for it, test it, do it! * Sensory input, what do we need and how to improve accuracy. Again, your feedback will have direct impact on the development of the RJ format, player and composition tools. Sprint Camp or Boot Camp? We will work from Pauls terrace which is in cuitat vella, in the middle of the old town of Barcelona. Marquees will protect from too much sun. Since Pauls terrace is astonishing big we will also provide tents to make this sprint more like a Sprint Camp. Barbeques and plenty of drinks will provide the adequate environment. RJ tracks are mainly consumed with headphones. Think of it as the next generation of walkman or mp3 player. The consumer experience of RJ is similar to the effects of drugs. Drugs affect our sensory perception, so does RJ. RJ is a mind twisting hearing sensation. Date: 8,9,10 August 2008; Location: cuitat vella, Barcelona, Spain Hotel: Tents If you want to join us, please contact michael at realityjockey.com Thanks, Michael Breidenbruecker, Günter Geiger, Paul Brossier, Amaury Hazan. [1] http://www.realityjockey.com/?page_id=5 ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] pd settings (preferences) in ubuntu studio
i just installed pd-extended on my ubuntu studio machine, and used synaptic to delete the older version of pd, but my old preferences are still being used. can somebody tell me what the preference file might be called so i can delete it? i tried searching for .pdsettings and .pdrc but all i can find is the settings file for the new build of pd-extended. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] sssad key-name in abstractions (was: is $0 the same on every load?)
Yo, it's not as messy if you do it more hierarchically - I have a deeply nested set of abstractions that make up my composition kit, and I've tackled it like this: [suite /suite1] [suite /suite2] ... etc inside: [oscillator $1 /osc1] [oscillator $1 /osc2] etc. then you can do [sssad $1$2/frequency] [sssad $1$2/modulation] etc. inside that. (and of course you can continue this to any level, so inside [oscillator] you could have [sawtooth $1 $2 /saw1] and inside that [sssad $1$2$3/phase]) And, this ends up just being OSC essentially so that works out great if you are interested in communicating with your system remotely (which I do, using Memento). Cheers Luke On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 1:38 AM, Damian Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: IOhannes m zmoelnig schreef: hmm.. so what if i have for example a delay abstraction which a GOP gui, and i want to have multiple instances of this abstraction? i suppose i'd have to name each one individually, passing a name on initialisation? what if i have a delay abstraction inside a synth abstraction, and i want two instances of the synth abstraction? then i have two instances of the delay abstraction but no easy way to name them without messily chaining up the name strings... hmm, the subject suggests this is about $0, so i am not sure whether i fully understand your question (or what you are missing): just use $0-mydel. that $0 is not 1026 shouldn't be a problem for you either. have changed the subject line to something better ;-) my understanding of sssad is that it requires data be given unique key names. the question is how to generate these unique key names within multiple instances of abstractions. the original discussion was about using $0 to do this, which doesn't seem possible. in your example if i save a bunch of states with eg mydelay-$0-delaytime when $0 is 1026, then go and try to load these up some other time, then $0 is not guaranteed to be 1026. i suppose the solution is to have a delay that takes an instance name argument, eg [mydelay left], then use that instance name in the sssad key, eg mydelay-$1-delaytime, which will create mydelay-left-delaytime for [mydelay left]. but then the problem remains - if i have a synth that has built-in delay [mydelay left], and i want to have two abstractions of this synth, i'm going to end up with two sets of keys mydelay-left-delaytime. so i need some kind of chained name thing, eg [mysynth squelchy] instantiates [mysynth $1-left], so the sssad key will be mydelay-squelchy-left-delaytime. chaining through multiple levels of abstraction like this (which i tend to do when i'm building patches) is going to lead to keynames like mylpf-squelchy-left-sawtooth-lfo-pre-cutoff, for the cutoff frequency of an lfo pre-filter inside the sawtooth generator for the left channel of the 'squelchy' synth. which i suppose isn't a problem, really, it's just a bit messy. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Fwd: finding the cause of clicks when using sssad WAS: saving state of a patch
what i have done is create a large textfile for presets that can be loaded when the patch is opened, which in turn sends its data to up to 1000 textfile objects. pd seems to have no problem with so many textfile objects storing data it might even be cheaper to do it this way than storing numbers in an array, if textfile is just storing integers, rather than floating point numbers? ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd-0.39.2-extended-rc4 released
Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: http://at.or.at/hans/pd/installers.html It's looking quite stable, so please try it if you haven't already so we can find the last bugs. As far as I know, there aren't any outstanding bugs that need to be fixed for this release. Test away and file bugs in the bug tracker! http://puredata.org/dev/bugtracker (the Mac OS X 10.4/Intel build is not up yet, and will hopefully be up tomorrow). Did you mean 0.40.3-rc4? If so, there is no such file on the server, only 0.40.3-rc3 which was released one month ago. Another thing: Pd-extended for Debian testing is depending on liblame0 while the debian-multimedia repository is replacing liblame0 with libmp3lame0 with the upgrade from 3.97 to 3.98. Could you please do the same switch as Pd-extended is a blocker for several other upgrades. That said, all I can say is: Keep up with the great work and thanks for all this. cu Thomas -- Prisons are needed only to provide the illusion that courts and police are effective. They're a kind of job insurance. (Leto II. in: Frank Herbert, God Emperor of Dune) http://thomas.dergrossebruder.org/ ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] pd settings (preferences) in ubuntu studio
yeah got that, but its the default for the new build i just installed. pd-extended is still loading with my old settings, and i know this because my abstractions folders and stuff are all still in the pathlist. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] pd settings (preferences) in ubuntu studio
On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 12:05 PM, hard off [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: yeah got that, but its the default for the new build i just installed. pd-extended is still loading with my old settings, and i know this because my abstractions folders and stuff are all still in the pathlist. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list Hi: I thing that Ubuntu's pd install uses a file called .pdrc in your home directory cheers, ernie -- Oblique_Chirps: Don't stress one thing more than another ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] sssad key-name in abstractions (was: is $0 the same on every load?)
Hallo, Luke Iannini hat gesagt: // Luke Iannini wrote: (and of course you can continue this to any level, so inside [oscillator] you could have [sawtooth $1 $2 /saw1] and inside that [sssad $1$2$3/phase]) I usually use it in this style: [oscillator /osc1] - [sawtooth $1/saw1] - [sssad $1/phase] to auto-create a [sssad /osc1/saw1/phase] in the end. Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org__ ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] Announcing availability of a PureData+GEM prototype of the Drancing accelerometer music system for the Wiimote
Hi, My name is Darren Kelly, and I've been developing a gestural synthesis accelerometer music system I call Drancing for over a decade: http://www.webel.com.au/project/drancing Drancing (named after "Drumming by Dancing") is an "air instrument". I've recently developed a PureData+GEM prototype of Drancing for Mac OS X with the Wiimote as wireless 3D accelerometer via Bluetooth: http://www.webel.com.au/project/drancing/wii(includes movies) (The original version 1997-2002 used MIDI, and from 2002+ I developed a real-time Java synthesis version using JSyn audio synthesis and Java3D visuals, with UML-driven port-based engineering. The Drancing accelerometer sensor suit uses 5 Xbow 3D accelerometers.) One can download the PureData Drancing prototype for Mac OS X (includes step-by-step instructions for the Wiimotes, too): http://www.webel.com.au/project/drancing/puredata/index.jsp?page=DrancingWiimoteMacHOWTO This is strictly an unsupported prototype, however I welcome feedback on trials from Pure Data users at [EMAIL PROTECTED]. There is a comprehensive set of screenshots and explanations of the PureData and GEM patches: http://www.webel.com.au/project/drancing/puredata (overview of audio synthesis skin and GEM visuals) http://www.webel.com.au/project/drancing/puredata/index.jsp?page=DranceWarePureDataWii (detailed patches) There is also a SysML systems engineering signal processing mockup of some PureData patches here: http://www.webel.com.au/project/drancing/puredata/index.jsp?page=sysml (I work professionally with UML and SysML-driven modelling, simulation, and control of scientific instruments, as well as UML-driven software engineering, and I would like to eventually use SysML diagrams as synthesis patches.) In principle the Drancing.pd prototype could work on any O/S, however the Wiimote signal acquisition currently relies on Andreas Schlegels' adapted DarwiinRemoteOSC for Mac OS X, and also only works for 2 Wiimotes (I may expand this PureData version to work with 5 triaxial accelerometers, like my original "body star" Drancing suit). Some of the patches are quite naive (especially I would like to get more sense of vector handling in the patches) and I am getting some unwelcome clicks and pops etc., which problems are the topic of the posting following this. Hoping this is of interest to the Pure Data community, regards, Darren Kelly, Bondi, Sydney, Australia May I extend my thanks to Miller Puckette, IRCAM, IEM, and all the PureData and GEM developers, whose synthesis software and examples made this rapid synthesis prototyping work for Drancing possible. Thanks also to Prof. Christopher Dobrian for helpful online examples. And thanks to Hiroaki Kimura for the original DarwiinRemote and to Andreas Schlegel from adapting DarwiinRemote to DarwiinRemote OSC -- Darren Kelly, BSc, PhD phone: +61 (2) 9386 0090 post: PO Box 1816, Bondi Junction, NSW 1355, Australia http://www.webel.com.au ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] pd settings (preferences) in ubuntu studio
i think pd-extended use: default.pdsettings mine is in /usr/lib/pd pat ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd-0.40.3-extended-rc4 released
On Jul 23, 2008, at 2:00 PM, Thomas Mayer wrote: Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: http://at.or.at/hans/pd/installers.html It's looking quite stable, so please try it if you haven't already so we can find the last bugs. As far as I know, there aren't any outstanding bugs that need to be fixed for this release. Test away and file bugs in the bug tracker! http://puredata.org/dev/bugtracker (the Mac OS X 10.4/Intel build is not up yet, and will hopefully be up tomorrow). Did you mean 0.40.3-rc4? If so, there is no such file on the server, only 0.40.3-rc3 which was released one month ago. Oops, hehe, yeah, it should have read Pd-0.40.3-extended-rc4 released. As for the webpage and the new files, they are definitely there. Try clearing your cache. Another thing: Pd-extended for Debian testing is depending on liblame0 while the debian-multimedia repository is replacing liblame0 with libmp3lame0 with the upgrade from 3.97 to 3.98. Could you please do the same switch as Pd-extended is a blocker for several other upgrades. Please file a bug report on that, and I'll check it out once I get a chance. .hc That said, all I can say is: Keep up with the great work and thanks for all this. cu Thomas -- Prisons are needed only to provide the illusion that courts and police are effective. They're a kind of job insurance. (Leto II. in: Frank Herbert, God Emperor of Dune) http://thomas.dergrossebruder.org/ If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] request assistance with crackles and pops in VFOs driven by modulating accelerometer signals
Hi PD, I am getting crackles when driving the frequency of an osc~ with an accelerometer signal (in fact I'm driving 3 x 2 = 6 oscillators with Wiimotes as wireless 2 triaxial accelerometers) , which one can hear in the following mp4 movie (at the end when I am waving the sensors faster): http://www.webel.com.au/project/drancing/wii/movie/iSight.320x240/Drancing_PD_Wii_iSight.VFO.1.320x240.mp4 The Pure Data patch for one channel can be seen here: http://www.webel.com.au/project/drancing/puredata/VFO.pd.png And the whole system's patches can be seen here: http://www.webel.com.au/project/drancing/puredata/index.jsp?page=DranceWarePureDataWii Each conditioned accelerometer channel can drive a Variable Frequency Oscillator (VFO) (osc~) with the option of locking onto discrete MIDI note frequencies, as well as a frequency scaling, a frequency offset, and an output gain. I have tried inserting a sig~ before the osc~, it made no audible difference. I have tried including a line and line~ to smooth the signal before varying the frequency, it made no audible difference. I now have a limiter~ in COMPRESS mode at the output, did not help (it certainly helped with many other things, just not with my VFO problem). The amplitude definitely remains constant during this. When I open up the osc~ examples and pump the frequency very quickly with just a mouse over the feeding number as simulated driver I don't get any problems at all. Note however that I am driving 6 oscillators (and a lot more stuff) when running my full system, however I'm not topping out my CPU, so I don't think that's the problem either. Am bamboozled, since I don't recall having this trouble using the same naive strategy with an equivalent JSyn audio synthesis system. Very glad for any suggestions and help, Darren -- Darren Kelly, BSc, PhD phone: +61 (2) 9386 0090 post: PO Box 1816, Bondi Junction, NSW 1355, Australia http://www.webel.com.au ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] request assistance with crackles and pops in VFOs driven by modulating accelerometer signals
The combination of problems and tests does seem strange. In a case like this a good debug approach may be to log everything from the controller to a file and look through it for strange jumps. A [lop~ 10] following the [sig~] might help smooth the data better than a [line~] On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 00:17:32 +1000 Darren Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi PD, I am getting crackles when driving the frequency of an osc~ with an accelerometer signal (in fact I'm driving 3 x 2 = 6 oscillators with Wiimotes as wireless 2 triaxial accelerometers) , which one can hear in the following mp4 movie (at the end when I am waving the sensors faster): http://www.webel.com.au/project/drancing/wii/movie/iSight.320x240/Drancing_PD_Wii_iSight.VFO.1.320x240.mp4 The Pure Data patch for one channel can be seen here: http://www.webel.com.au/project/drancing/puredata/VFO.pd.png And the whole system's patches can be seen here: http://www.webel.com.au/project/drancing/puredata/index.jsp?page=DranceWarePureDataWii Each conditioned accelerometer channel can drive a Variable Frequency Oscillator (VFO) (osc~) with the option of locking onto discrete MIDI note frequencies, as well as a frequency scaling, a frequency offset, and an output gain. I have tried inserting a sig~ before the osc~, it made no audible difference. I have tried including a line and line~ to smooth the signal before varying the frequency, it made no audible difference. I now have a limiter~ in COMPRESS mode at the output, did not help (it certainly helped with many other things, just not with my VFO problem). The amplitude definitely remains constant during this. When I open up the osc~ examples and pump the frequency very quickly with just a mouse over the feeding number as simulated driver I don't get any problems at all. Note however that I am driving 6 oscillators (and a lot more stuff) when running my full system, however I'm not topping out my CPU, so I don't think that's the problem either. Am bamboozled, since I don't recall having this trouble using the same naive strategy with an equivalent JSyn audio synthesis system. Very glad for any suggestions and help, Darren -- Darren Kelly, BSc, PhD phone: +61 (2) 9386 0090 post: PO Box 1816, Bondi Junction, NSW 1355, Australia http://www.webel.com.au ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Use the source ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] pd settings (preferences) in ubuntu studio
That's the embedded default prefs. It's best to leave that there. If you want to override the default prefs, just make your own preferences file. As for which files those are, check the FAQ: http://puredata.info/docs/faq/pdsettings http://puredata.info/docs/faq/pdrc .hc On Jul 23, 2008, at 1:36 PM, patrick wrote: i think pd-extended use: default.pdsettings mine is in /usr/lib/pd pat ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list Man has survived hitherto because he was too ignorant to know how to realize his wishes. Now that he can realize them, he must either change them, or perish.-William Carlos Williams ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] finding the cause of clicks when using sssad WAS: saving state of a patch
Part of the problem could also be that it is using canvas_open() which means it searches the whole Path when using a relative name. Try using absolute path names for the file to see if that speeds things up (canvas_open() tries absolute file names first). It would be possible to use a thread in [qlist] and [textfile] without changing their behavior, but it would mean some trickery would have to be used. Something like this: - read file into memory using a low-priority thread - use while(reading); flag to block other messages until thread is done reading Then as long as you don't send another message to [qlist] while it is reading, it shouldn't cause an interruption. But it would still have deterministic behavior, since it would always wait until the reading was complete before processing more messages. Ideally, it would send a message when it is done reading, so that you can use that to move to the next step of the program. Perhaps there is cause to make [fasttextfile] which is similar to [textfile] but doesn't search the whole path like [qlist]/[textfile] and uses thread/blocking/complete message I outlined above. .hc On Jul 23, 2008, at 10:54 AM, Phil Stone wrote: Hi Hans, I don't think this is anything to do with sssad, really. It is due to Pd's lack of a threaded file loader/saver. The way I understand it (and this is borne out by my experience), if a file operation cannot complete within one dsp cycle, the next dsp cycle is delayed until after the file operation completes, thus causing dropouts. Ram disks help (with files that are not too big) because they speed up the file operation to the point where it can happen safely within one dsp period. This has been discussed many times on the list without any hope of change, but it would be so great for Pd's use in live performance if some tasks could be relegated to a background thread. Or, to put it another way, the dsp engine should have highest priority at all times. Phil Stone pkstonemusic.com Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: On Jul 22, 2008, at 2:31 AM, Enrique Erne wrote: Phil Stone wrote: Hi Atte, Now that you're on your way with sssad, there's a nice trick you should know. If you find that loading a preset causes dropouts, consider using a ram disk to hold your presets during performance. This solved all my dropout problems, and it's easy to do (I can post a script for OS X if anyone wants it). The ramdisk thing is definitely handy, I just hope that sssad can be tweaked to work without causing dropouts. Any ideas what the cause is? .hc - --- Looking at things from a more basic level, you can come up with a more direct solution... It may sound small in theory, but it in practice, it can change entire economies. - Amy Smith ¡El pueblo unido jamás será vencido! ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] Save RAM memory usage ?
I'm looking for a way to shrink the RAM usage in my live patch. I'm currently running a patch for live usage which has 14 x 100 stereo audio arrays. and 14 x 20sec variable delay lines. there's also 3 vst plugins (compressor, limiter and tape style delay). the GUI isn't too busy, there aren't any vu's and the arrays and lots of stuff are hidden in subpatches. it is basically a 7 stereo channel (hence 14 x 100, 14 mono pairs x 100 clips long in timeline) ableton live-esqe system but with a delay line on each channel (i need different delay times each channel, hence no send setup). I have initialised all arrays to 6 samples (which i suppose i should change to 1 or 0 samples if possible). So that they take up the minumum amount of RAM when not in use (correct me if i'm wrong). i have a loop programmed that loads the audio files into the arrays and resizes the ones in use. they are 16 bit stereo files The most amount of arrays I've tried to load into the patch is 588 (42 x 14) which have been roughly 15secs long and i'm running at 44.1khz. this has lead to my RAM overloading and pd shutting locking and crashing. I changed the 4 of the channels to mono and got away with it. but pd still used up nearly all of my 2gb of ram. (i've recently bought more) is there anything i can do to save on RAM?? also how can i calculate roughly how much RAM that pd will need per second of audio array/delay line etc.?? and are there any other factors that are RAM draining (exc GUI)?? Thanks in advance, this list has been more than helpful to me in the past but apologies for lack of brevity this time! ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Save RAM memory usage ?
instead of arrays, use [table], that should help a fair bit. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] better tabread4~
On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 10:33 PM, Matt Barber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Right -- wouldn't this be equivalent to doing the (defined) interpolation and the anti-aliasing as a filter in one step? You're modulating the interpolating function to include the effects of the appropriate anti-aliasing filter -- like a one-step sample rate converter. Except, the ratio between the source and target rates is variable. Is this an inappropriate way to be thinking about it? Yes, that's it. I guess one problem is how speed is measured -- do you just use absolute value of the index delta from one sample to the next (what happens when the index is not a linear function of time)? Or could you fill something like a delay line with past index positions and then use those to find speed as a three- or five-point approximation of the first derivative -- this would add a few samples of delay but might give a better estimate of speed. Sorry to be dense with the questions, but I want to keep up the best I can. =o) Yes, that's exactly right, also. The input is a sequence of table indexes, so the speed is the first derivative of the input. There is something problematic, when the user wants to jump between different positions in the table. Those instances shouldn't be treated as playing at high speed--it would just be glitchy. I would suggest a look-ahead method to figure out the speed, when there are rapid changes, to avoid having an error. I've got two basic ideas that I'm playing with. The first is to modify the interpolation function continuously adding a series of bumps that are spaced exponentially outward from the original function. If there's some good spectral properties, there could be a way to make a smooth transition and hold the number of calculations to O(log(speed)) instead of O(speed) My second idea is to replace the points and their derivatives, with filters (low-pass filters for the points and band-pass filters for the derivatives). Then, fit a polynomial as before and interpolate. Like existing schemes, this could be turned into continuous functions for impulse response, which vary as functions of speed. Any ideas? Can you give a quick example of the form of each idea? Not particularly... I'm only working with intuition for the idea so far. It's going to take some insight or inspiration. Do you have any ideas? In the first, are you adding bumps to the interpolator's impulse response? In the second are you saying you would replace a point with the impulse response of a low-pass filter (e.g. in a 5th-degree polynomial with coefficients a0 a1 a2 a3 a4 and a5, instead of matching a0+a1+a2+a3+a4+a5 with y[1] you'd match it with an impulse response centered on y[1])? Would the algebra still be such that you could keep the form for derivatives of the polynomials (in the last example, 2*a2+6*a3+12*a4+20*a5 as the 2nd derivative at y[1]) even though you're matching them with something other than an approximation? Feeling my way through, Matt ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] request assistance with crackles and pops in VFOs driven by modulating accelerometer signals
by the way, is it even possible to get clicks when rapidly changing osc~ speeds? i didn't think it was, and i have never experienced that. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] request assistance with crackles and pops in VFOs driven by modulating accelerometer signals
if you attach a [dac~] directly to the osc~ object, do you still get crackles? if not, then i guess your problem might lie further down the line. looking at your PAN module, the panning amount is sent as a float into [*~ ] objects without [line~] smoothing. that would be the likeliest culprit i reckon. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
