Re: [PD] [PD-announce] cheap AVR/HID sensor board
Derek, Thanks for posting this! I've been looking around for a while for a simple, low cost HID board. The Arduino and Multio are just overkill if all you want is something you can stick a couple of pots/sensors/switches into. Jamie On Wed, 2008-03-26 at 21:18 +0100, Derek Holzer wrote: Martin Howse just posted his documentation of a simple HID sensor board, costing approx EUR 5 to make, which can be used over USB with PD, SuperCollider, etc. http://1010.co.uk/avrhid.html This board was used during a sensor workshop which took place at Pickled Feet in Berlin on 15 March 2008, with the second part taking place on 26 April 2008. Details here: http://1010.co.uk/workshop.html Further docs could include step-by-step programming instructions, sensor connection schematics and sample PD patches. Feedback more than welcome! best, d. -- www.postlude.co.uk ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] Sending data from Processing to PD
Hi, I am trying to receive data (integers, floats, strings) from Processing through TCP or UDP. I am receiving something in PD with netreceive but I don´t know what is the format of the data that PD is receiving. How do I have to send it from Processing and what do I need to do in PD? Thanks, -- Enrique Franco Telefono/Phone: +572 5552334 ext 388 Webpage: http://richie.idc.ul.ie/~enrique/ http://www.iua.upf.es/~ffranco/pfm.htm ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Sending data from Processing to PD
hi tocayo ;) I would use OSC, it is the same and very likely to be easier. The processing OSC tutorial is nowadays trivial to use, same goes for OSC in PD. Check the example in the oscIxiExample folder inside this zip http://www.ixi-audio.net/content/download/tutorials/processing_tutorial.tar There is a PD example and a Processing example as well. aIf you have any question just email again. good luck enrike enrique franco(e)k dio: Hi, I am trying to receive data (integers, floats, strings) from Processing through TCP or UDP. I am receiving something in PD with netreceive but I don´t know what is the format of the data that PD is receiving. How do I have to send it from Processing and what do I need to do in PD? Thanks, -- Enrique Franco Telefono/Phone: +572 5552334 ext 388 Webpage: http://richie.idc.ul.ie/~enrique/ http://www.iua.upf.es/~ffranco/pfm.htm ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] pdlua-0.4 released
marius schebella wrote: that's great, sorry for bothering, can you help me with this error? I compiled lua did some fixes in the makefile and then tried to compile pdlua, but got this error (I'm on osx). /var/folders/TH/THjm5UAnEZSSB-y6nQY-6TI/-Tmp-//cc6upu2C.s:2824:FATAL:incompatible feature used: section type symbol_stubs (must specify -dynamic to be used) make: *** [lua.pd_darwin] Error 1 Hmm, seems compiling on Mac OS X is more complicated than on Linux, and I don't have an Apple machine to test. I guess you were trying to link Lua statically (because: http://lists.apple.com/archives/xcode-users/2008/Feb/msg00314.html ). Maybe tweak Makefile.static to be like this: lua.pd_darwin: lua.c gcc $(CFLAGS) -o lua.o -c lua.c gcc $(CFLAGS) -static -bundle -undefined suppress -flat_namespace -o lua.pd_darwin lua.o -llua Or try what is suggested in the mail linked above - create a static archive and link that into a dylib - but I don't know how to do that. Maybe easiest would be to install Lua via fink/darwinports/whatever is the flavour of the day and try a normal non-static build... Another alternative would be to use the Pd-extended build system after replacing the loaders/pdlua directory with pdlua-0.4, make sure to keep the .libs file. But I think that requires Lua to be installed already (that is, a non-static build). If you do get it working, let me know how! Sorry I couldn't be much help. do I have to compile lua with special options? I don't think so. thanks, marius. Thanks for the feedback, Claude Claude Heiland-Allen wrote: Hi all, I'm proud to announce a new release of pdlua! Pd (aka Pure-data) [1] is a real-time visual programming environment primarily used for multimedia processing. Lua [2] is a powerful, fast, light-weight, embeddable scripting language. pdlua [3] is a Lua embedding for Pd. This is primarily a bug fix release, but also has some incompatible API changes (which should hopefully resolve some Pd vs Lua name clash issues in the long term). pdlua-0.4 (2008-03-26), changes since pdlua-0.3 (2007-12-02): * API change: load $1--[lua] users must add the file name extension * Bug fix:load $1--[lua] works as advertised * API change: users must name files *.pd_lua instead of *.lua * API change: users must name files *.pd_luax instead of *.luax * Bug fix:help patches should be found correctly * Examples++: [lurn], [luametro], [lpipe] * Internal: Doxygenated source comments * Internal: fewer leading underscores * Internal: renamed all examples for API change and tested them Thanks to Frank Barknecht for the additional examples. Get a tarball here: https://devel.goto10.org/dl.php?repname=maximuspath=%2Freleases%2Fpdlua-0.4%2Frev=0isdir=1 Or via SVN: svn co https://devel.goto10.org/svn/maximus/releases/pdlua-0.4 Development version (may be broken at times): svn co https://devel.goto10.org/svn/maximus/pdlua Claude [1] http://puredata.info [2] http://lua.org [3] no pdlua home page yet :( ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- http://claudiusmaximus.goto10.org ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Associative list
Roman Haefeli wrote: yo, sorry to drop in. let me just add a little note about the state saving of netpd: it turned out, that it was a mistake to cover both tasks, collecting/setting states and reading/writing data from/to files, in the same system. some people got frustrated, because this system didn't allow them to save their presets in the way/format they wanted. we decided to redo all the state saving stuff and just skip file IO handling part, so that people can choose themselves, what they are going to do with this data. for flexibility's sake, i think the route that SSSAD is following totally makes sense, at least in my opinion. hi i am sorry for the inconvenience with the netpd's state saving manager. i wrote 2 systems that should have made life easier when dealing with presets in netpd. the first was an abstraction that creates names for the netpd-x to load and save presets. a feature is that it can save all instruments, then it makes 1 preset for each instrument. later i wanted to optimize the system in order to store all data in 1 single preset. also i didn't like that each abstraction carried it's own gui, that made the abstraction very big (40kb) while i implemented all my desired features into p-admin it happend that the new presets were not compatible with the old one's. instead of keyvalue it was now instrumentkeyvalue it is still possible to use both ways by replacing an abstraction and adjusting the version tag. but that's really not userfriendly. after some talk we decided to downgrade back to the first approach. the plan at the moment is that one day we use the OSC format. so we could work in a very flexible way with the data. i wonder if people have good experience with OSC or are there any problem one should be aware of? compatibility, bugs, etc? so actually i just wanted to say i'm sorry if somebody got frustrated because of the preset-manager in netpd :) here some thinking: http://www.netpd.org/FutureOfStateSaving http://www.netpd.org/NextSteps eni ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Sending data from Processing to PD
Thanks Enrike, I have it working now. E. On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 8:07 AM, altern [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hi tocayo ;) I would use OSC, it is the same and very likely to be easier. The processing OSC tutorial is nowadays trivial to use, same goes for OSC in PD. Check the example in the oscIxiExample folder inside this zip http://www.ixi-audio.net/content/download/tutorials/processing_tutorial.tar There is a PD example and a Processing example as well. aIf you have any question just email again. good luck enrike enrique franco(e)k dio: Hi, I am trying to receive data (integers, floats, strings) from Processing through TCP or UDP. I am receiving something in PD with netreceive but I don´t know what is the format of the data that PD is receiving. How do I have to send it from Processing and what do I need to do in PD? Thanks, -- Enrique Franco Telefono/Phone: +572 5552334 ext 388 Webpage: http://richie.idc.ul.ie/~enrique/http://richie.idc.ul.ie/%7Eenrique/ http://www.iua.upf.es/~ffranco/pfm.htmhttp://www.iua.upf.es/%7Effranco/pfm.htm ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Enrique Franco Telefono/Phone: +572 5552334 ext 388 Webpage: http://richie.idc.ul.ie/~enrique/ http://www.iua.upf.es/~ffranco/pfm.htm ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] place for loaders
hi, surfing the cvs I just wondered if loaders should be a subdir of externals at all? I can't find a discussion about this in the archives and I also think it is not that important. but shouldn't it go side by side with the externals folder? nevermind... marius. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Sending data from Processing to PD
Another question, Is there a OSC library for PD on MACOSX? Where is it? Thanks, Enrique On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 9:50 AM, enrique franco [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks Enrike, I have it working now. E. On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 8:07 AM, altern [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hi tocayo ;) I would use OSC, it is the same and very likely to be easier. The processing OSC tutorial is nowadays trivial to use, same goes for OSC in PD. Check the example in the oscIxiExample folder inside this zip http://www.ixi-audio.net/content/download/tutorials/processing_tutorial.tar There is a PD example and a Processing example as well. aIf you have any question just email again. good luck enrike enrique franco(e)k dio: Hi, I am trying to receive data (integers, floats, strings) from Processing through TCP or UDP. I am receiving something in PD with netreceive but I don´t know what is the format of the data that PD is receiving. How do I have to send it from Processing and what do I need to do in PD? Thanks, -- Enrique Franco Telefono/Phone: +572 5552334 ext 388 Webpage: http://richie.idc.ul.ie/~enrique/http://richie.idc.ul.ie/%7Eenrique/ http://www.iua.upf.es/~ffranco/pfm.htmhttp://www.iua.upf.es/%7Effranco/pfm.htm ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Enrique Franco Telefono/Phone: +572 5552334 ext 388 Webpage: http://richie.idc.ul.ie/~enrique/http://richie.idc.ul.ie/%7Eenrique/ http://www.iua.upf.es/~ffranco/pfm.htmhttp://www.iua.upf.es/%7Effranco/pfm.htm -- Enrique Franco Telefono/Phone: +572 5552334 ext 388 Webpage: http://richie.idc.ul.ie/~enrique/ http://www.iua.upf.es/~ffranco/pfm.htm ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Sending data from Processing to PD
oscx it is in pd-extended for example. there are also osc objects in mrpeach library. marius. enrique franco wrote: Another question, Is there a OSC library for PD on MACOSX? Where is it? Thanks, Enrique On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 9:50 AM, enrique franco [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks Enrike, I have it working now. E. On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 8:07 AM, altern [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hi tocayo ;) I would use OSC, it is the same and very likely to be easier. The processing OSC tutorial is nowadays trivial to use, same goes for OSC in PD. Check the example in the oscIxiExample folder inside this zip http://www.ixi-audio.net/content/download/tutorials/processing_tutorial.tar There is a PD example and a Processing example as well. aIf you have any question just email again. good luck enrike enrique franco(e)k dio: Hi, I am trying to receive data (integers, floats, strings) from Processing through TCP or UDP. I am receiving something in PD with netreceive but I don´t know what is the format of the data that PD is receiving. How do I have to send it from Processing and what do I need to do in PD? Thanks, -- Enrique Franco Telefono/Phone: +572 5552334 ext 388 Webpage: http://richie.idc.ul.ie/~enrique/ http://richie.idc.ul.ie/%7Eenrique/ http://www.iua.upf.es/~ffranco/pfm.htm http://www.iua.upf.es/%7Effranco/pfm.htm ___ PD-list@iem.at mailto:PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Enrique Franco Telefono/Phone: +572 5552334 ext 388 Webpage: http://richie.idc.ul.ie/~enrique/ http://richie.idc.ul.ie/%7Eenrique/ http://www.iua.upf.es/~ffranco/pfm.htm http://www.iua.upf.es/%7Effranco/pfm.htm -- Enrique Franco Telefono/Phone: +572 5552334 ext 388 Webpage: http://richie.idc.ul.ie/~enrique/ http://www.iua.upf.es/~ffranco/pfm.htm ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Sending data from Processing to PD
Thanks Marius, I´ve found it. One last question...how do I setup the help path for pd-extended on MACOSX? E. On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 10:26 AM, marius schebella [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: oscx it is in pd-extended for example. there are also osc objects in mrpeach library. marius. enrique franco wrote: Another question, Is there a OSC library for PD on MACOSX? Where is it? Thanks, Enrique On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 9:50 AM, enrique franco [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks Enrike, I have it working now. E. On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 8:07 AM, altern [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hi tocayo ;) I would use OSC, it is the same and very likely to be easier. The processing OSC tutorial is nowadays trivial to use, same goes for OSC in PD. Check the example in the oscIxiExample folder inside this zip http://www.ixi-audio.net/content/download/tutorials/processing_tutorial.tar There is a PD example and a Processing example as well. aIf you have any question just email again. good luck enrike enrique franco(e)k dio: Hi, I am trying to receive data (integers, floats, strings) from Processing through TCP or UDP. I am receiving something in PD with netreceive but I don´t know what is the format of the data that PD is receiving. How do I have to send it from Processing and what do I need to do in PD? Thanks, -- Enrique Franco Telefono/Phone: +572 5552334 ext 388 Webpage: http://richie.idc.ul.ie/~enrique/http://richie.idc.ul.ie/%7Eenrique/ http://richie.idc.ul.ie/%7Eenrique/ http://www.iua.upf.es/~ffranco/pfm.htmhttp://www.iua.upf.es/%7Effranco/pfm.htm http://www.iua.upf.es/%7Effranco/pfm.htm ___ PD-list@iem.at mailto:PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Enrique Franco Telefono/Phone: +572 5552334 ext 388 Webpage: http://richie.idc.ul.ie/~enrique/http://richie.idc.ul.ie/%7Eenrique/ http://richie.idc.ul.ie/%7Eenrique/ http://www.iua.upf.es/~ffranco/pfm.htmhttp://www.iua.upf.es/%7Effranco/pfm.htm http://www.iua.upf.es/%7Effranco/pfm.htm -- Enrique Franco Telefono/Phone: +572 5552334 ext 388 Webpage: http://richie.idc.ul.ie/~enrique/http://richie.idc.ul.ie/%7Eenrique/ http://www.iua.upf.es/~ffranco/pfm.htmhttp://www.iua.upf.es/%7Effranco/pfm.htm ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Enrique Franco Telefono/Phone: +572 5552334 ext 388 Webpage: http://richie.idc.ul.ie/~enrique/ http://www.iua.upf.es/~ffranco/pfm.htm ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Sending data from Processing to PD
enrique franco wrote: Thanks Marius, I´ve found it. One last question...how do I setup the help path for pd-extended on MACOSX? that is an ongoing discussion right now. for relative paths I don't know it, because I don't know relative to what? you will have to add absolute paths and that is kind of annoying. from the menu: help-browser-5.reference-oscx... marius. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Open patch in running pd via commandline
This is great! The file associations will help a lot. It would be good if you could use the same icon, it is in SVN and is used for Mac OS X files, and the app icon for all platforms. As for opening in the same instance, Mac OS X handles that autmoatically, but on Windows and GNU/Linux, Pd needs to be modified to support that. There has been some discussion about how to do it. I think the best bet would be to look how other apps like Firefox, etc handle this. .hc On Mar 27, 2008, at 10:34 PM, Daniel Wilcox wrote: Howdy again, I'm working on integrating pd-extended into the Ubuntu desktop and have a mime type and associated patch icon setup. You can double click it to open it in pd natively. The only problem is I'm trying to figure out a way to open a patch in a running instance of pd. Basically, it would be great to double click a patch file and have it open in my already running pd thus saving me from going back and forth in the open dialog which is annoying. I've looked at pdsend but from what I've seen in manuals/pd-msg pdsend only works if you have a netreceive running in a patch. Is there anyway to send commands to the pd-gui directly ala open in a new tab from a filebrowser in firefox? Next up would be to get that tkdnd stuff working ... -- Dan Wilcox danomatika www.robotcowboy.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list Using ReBirth is like trying to play an 808 with a long stick.- David Zicarelli ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] bug or feature, closing Pd in Mac Os X
Sounds like a bug, please file a report: http://puredata.info/dev/bugtracker .hc On Mar 28, 2008, at 6:06 AM, Julian Villegas wrote: Hi list, I found that if I close Pd using the 'close' button in the console window (the red x in the top left of the window in Mac OS) having a patch opened, it let a process running in background. It doesn't happen if I close it from the File menu, tough. I wonder if that's the way it should be... PS: I'm using Pd version 0.41-2 in a MacBook running Mac Os X ver. 10.5.2 Julian Villegas Me pregunto de un modo pensativo Que significa ser Colombiano? No se le respondi. Es un acto de fe JLB. Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea, which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession of everyone, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it.- Thomas Jefferson ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Sending data from Processing to PD
If you remove your preferences file and use the built-in default preferences, chances are the help files will all work. .hc On Mar 28, 2008, at 11:58 AM, enrique franco wrote: Thanks Marius, I´ve found it. One last question...how do I setup the help path for pd-extended on MACOSX? E. On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 10:26 AM, marius schebella [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: oscx it is in pd-extended for example. there are also osc objects in mrpeach library. marius. enrique franco wrote: Another question, Is there a OSC library for PD on MACOSX? Where is it? Thanks, Enrique On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 9:50 AM, enrique franco [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks Enrike, I have it working now. E. On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 8:07 AM, altern [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hi tocayo ;) I would use OSC, it is the same and very likely to be easier. The processing OSC tutorial is nowadays trivial to use, same goes for OSC in PD. Check the example in the oscIxiExample folder inside this zip http://www.ixi-audio.net/content/download/tutorials/ processing_tutorial.tar There is a PD example and a Processing example as well. aIf you have any question just email again. good luck enrike enrique franco(e)k dio: Hi, I am trying to receive data (integers, floats, strings) from Processing through TCP or UDP. I am receiving something in PD with netreceive but I don´t know what is the format of the data that PD is receiving. How do I have to send it from Processing and what do I need to do in PD? Thanks, -- Enrique Franco Telefono/Phone: +572 5552334 ext 388 Webpage: http://richie.idc.ul.ie/~enrique/ http://richie.idc.ul.ie/%7Eenrique/ http://www.iua.upf.es/~ffranco/pfm.htm http://www.iua.upf.es/%7Effranco/pfm.htm -- -- ___ PD-list@iem.at mailto:PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Enrique Franco Telefono/Phone: +572 5552334 ext 388 Webpage: http://richie.idc.ul.ie/~enrique/ http://richie.idc.ul.ie/%7Eenrique/ http://www.iua.upf.es/~ffranco/pfm.htm http://www.iua.upf.es/%7Effranco/pfm.htm -- Enrique Franco Telefono/Phone: +572 5552334 ext 388 Webpage: http://richie.idc.ul.ie/~enrique/ http://www.iua.upf.es/~ffranco/pfm.htm -- -- ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list -- Enrique Franco Telefono/Phone: +572 5552334 ext 388 Webpage: http://richie.idc.ul.ie/~enrique/ http://www.iua.upf.es/~ffranco/pfm.htm ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list Mistrust authority - promote decentralization. - the hacker ethic ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] cyclone
I don't really know much about those tools, but it would be really great to have the cyclone importer tool integrated into Pd-extended. .hc On Mar 27, 2008, at 4:45 PM, marius schebella wrote: hi (hans), is there a problem with externals/miXed/shadow/cyclone? did you think about integrating this into pd-extended? I think it is a useful object. can you help me, what do I need to do to get it compiled within the pd-extended build system? marius. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list [W]e have invented the technology to eliminate scarcity, but we are deliberately throwing it away to benefit those who profit from scarcity.-John Gilmore ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] call for old PC100/PC133 RAM donations
Hey, Thanks for the offer! Here's the info, at the bottom: http://puredata.info/about/PdLab If it costs a lot to ship from Europe, then it might not be worth it. On the other hand, I'll be in Barcelona for May and June, so perhaps I could receive them there. I don't have an address there yet. .hc On Mar 28, 2008, at 12:57 PM, olsen wolf wrote: Hi hans i have a bunch of 133 with 64128MB around - which direction should i give to them? greets olsen On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 6:14 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The machines don't need a ton. I think there are about 4 machines with empty slots. They won't work with DIMMs bigger than 256MB (they are old...). The BlueWhite G3 might use bigger DIMMs, but I am not sure. .hc On Mar 26, 2008, at 10:35 PM, bsoisoi wrote: By the way, its available super-cheap on ebay: http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll? from=R40_trksid=m37satitle=pc133category0= How much do you need, I'm willing to procure a few gigs from ebay and send them your way :) I'll check my parents house as well, they might have 256mb or so sitting around. Let me know. Cheers, ~Brandon On Mar 25, 2008, at 6:19 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: On Mar 25, 2008, at 4:08 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hi Hans and the list, first i have thought that i could actually send a couple of pc133 sticks over, but here is only a few and in fact i think i'd rather help up with 64ish thing .. i do have machine runnig gentoo on 64-bit athlon, but it actually has pd built manualy with each update and not too many externals to it .. but i think i could set up a weekly cron job or something to actually build a pd binary, may be not all the externals.. but the vanilla source for sure :) the only thing is that i've said that pd is build manualy each time over here ..i'm not too sure, i wasn't too interested to try and build the whole set of externals with it ..may be we still could do something for just the sake of making binaries for other people .. Both vanilla and extended auto-builds are completely scripted. I think the 64-bit issues in pd are pretty much worked out. What needs to happen now is to find all of the 64-bit issues with the externals. So having a extended build would be a lot more helpful. as i'm gentoo based, it's slitghtly different, but still could do .. i had always considered to write a couple of ebuilds and emerge pd just a s normal, but i didn't actyually learn to write them propertly yet .. but i reckon i can sort that out really ;) Federico has done one: http://pd-overlay.sourceforge.net/ It would also be useful to have a gentoo nightly build to work out any issues with gentoo, and document its dependencies. There is a wiki page too: http://puredata.info/docs/developer/Members/nanodust/pd-extended- gentoo (this should be moved to http://puredata.info/docs/developer/Gentoo IMHO) .hc ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list --- -- --- http://at.or.at/hans/ ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list - --- All mankind is of one author, and is one volume; when one man dies, one chapter is not torn out of the book, but translated into a better language; and every chapter must be so translated -John Donne ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list -- Planet Pluto bleibt! The arc of history bends towards justice. - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] place for loaders
hi Marius and everybdy, i'm not quite sure what are they? but i reckon the organization of makefiles in the svn is too messy, i was considering an option of actually offering myself taking the responsibility for that! but while considering that, i was tald that the concept is that each subdir is maintained exclusivle by the author ..which i actually respect, as it sort of right way for me, as it gives the individuality to the complite set of software - pd+etx+abs :) still may be we could introduce proper guidlines, especially what 'install' target has to do, the actuall directories where the lib it's helpfile and exples would be put! last time i tryed just simple make .pd_linux make install - it did try to mess up my setup, so i had either both lib and helpfile in one place, or the lib in that place and the helpfile somewhere else ;( and i can remeber what else it done back then .. so i did just copy every usefull file into two dirs that i named abs and ext, all helpfiles could go into subdirs of the two, but i did just out then together. well.. i don't need much stuff of there, just most of the time i've been happy with core objs ;[ the self organised pojects, i mean those which take their own dir, like the mtl bunch and netpd are totaly fine as they are ;) also some makefiles tend to have odd CFLAGS, many are missing -fPIC, which you need on x86_64, so right .. that all wanted to say about that.. also i will meantion here that there still a little annoying issue in Millers's src/ :( the makefile was fixed and the .pd file don't get +x permission when installed, but they together with some other .c files do have it in the src dir, which is definetly the source of the prob ;( well.. i definetly suspect this is comes with cross platform development, when you use the msdos fs, and copy stuff onto and from it, all the files on there when mounted on linux turn out to have +x bit (by default). the fix for it is to put a line like this into fstab: /dev/sde1 /mnt/sd1auto user,group,noauto,rw,noatime,umask=027,fmask=0117,posix,gid=100 0 0 this sets the file and dir mask, the important bits are umask=027 and fmask=0117 the rest is site specific. On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 10:57:44AM -0400, marius schebella wrote: hi, surfing the cvs I just wondered if loaders should be a subdir of externals at all? I can't find a discussion about this in the archives and I also think it is not that important. but shouldn't it go side by side with the externals folder? nevermind... marius. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] place for loaders
maybe I did not put it clear enough, but that's exactly what I wanted to say. marius. Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: I actually think that 'loaders' should be parallel to 'externals': trunk/externals trunk/pd trunk/loaders There is already s much stuff in 'externals', and loaders are not really externals, they are tools for writing externals. .hc On Mar 28, 2008, at 10:57 AM, marius schebella wrote: hi, surfing the cvs I just wondered if loaders should be a subdir of externals at all? I can't find a discussion about this in the archives and I also think it is not that important. but shouldn't it go side by side with the externals folder? nevermind... marius. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list Looking at things from a more basic level, you can come up with a more direct solution... It may sound small in theory, but it in practice, it can change entire economies. - Amy Smith ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] call for old PC100/PC133 RAM donations
On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 09:42:18PM +0100, Steffen Juul wrote: On 25/03/2008, at 21.08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i had always considered to write a couple of ebuilds and emerge pd just a s normal, but i didn't actyually learn to write them propertly yet .. but i reckon i can sort that out really ;) Then maybe you'll find http://pd-overlay.sf.net/ useful. yeah, i looked at it, but did want to rewrite some stuff just for the sake of doing it my way.. cause i want pd to be in /opt/audio prefix .. it didn't work yet what i have writen ..i'd like to get back to it soon :) and the ram, i'll probably keep for now.. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] cyclone
You could just include the cyclone.pd_linux in addition to the libdir that is already there. .hc On Mar 28, 2008, at 1:16 PM, marius schebella wrote: in the shadow folder there is a file cyclone.c. I think that should include this loader functionality. but I don't know if you can build it as a separate object, or if this will only work when you build cyclone as a library and not single objects. marius. Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: I don't really know much about those tools, but it would be really great to have the cyclone importer tool integrated into Pd-extended. .hc On Mar 27, 2008, at 4:45 PM, marius schebella wrote: hi (hans), is there a problem with externals/miXed/shadow/cyclone? did you think about integrating this into pd-extended? I think it is a useful object. can you help me, what do I need to do to get it compiled within the pd-extended build system? marius. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list - --- [W]e have invented the technology to eliminate scarcity, but we are deliberately throwing it away to benefit those who profit from scarcity.-John Gilmore There is no way to peace, peace is the way. -A.J. Muste ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] call for old PC100/PC133 RAM donations
Hi hans i have a bunch of 133 with 64128MB around - which direction should i give to them? greets olsen On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 6:14 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The machines don't need a ton. I think there are about 4 machines with empty slots. They won't work with DIMMs bigger than 256MB (they are old...). The BlueWhite G3 might use bigger DIMMs, but I am not sure. .hc On Mar 26, 2008, at 10:35 PM, bsoisoi wrote: By the way, its available super-cheap on ebay: http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll? from=R40_trksid=m37satitle=pc133category0= How much do you need, I'm willing to procure a few gigs from ebay and send them your way :) I'll check my parents house as well, they might have 256mb or so sitting around. Let me know. Cheers, ~Brandon On Mar 25, 2008, at 6:19 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: On Mar 25, 2008, at 4:08 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hi Hans and the list, first i have thought that i could actually send a couple of pc133 sticks over, but here is only a few and in fact i think i'd rather help up with 64ish thing .. i do have machine runnig gentoo on 64-bit athlon, but it actually has pd built manualy with each update and not too many externals to it .. but i think i could set up a weekly cron job or something to actually build a pd binary, may be not all the externals.. but the vanilla source for sure :) the only thing is that i've said that pd is build manualy each time over here ..i'm not too sure, i wasn't too interested to try and build the whole set of externals with it ..may be we still could do something for just the sake of making binaries for other people .. Both vanilla and extended auto-builds are completely scripted. I think the 64-bit issues in pd are pretty much worked out. What needs to happen now is to find all of the 64-bit issues with the externals. So having a extended build would be a lot more helpful. as i'm gentoo based, it's slitghtly different, but still could do .. i had always considered to write a couple of ebuilds and emerge pd just a s normal, but i didn't actyually learn to write them propertly yet .. but i reckon i can sort that out really ;) Federico has done one: http://pd-overlay.sourceforge.net/ It would also be useful to have a gentoo nightly build to work out any issues with gentoo, and document its dependencies. There is a wiki page too: http://puredata.info/docs/developer/Members/nanodust/pd-extended- gentoo (this should be moved to http://puredata.info/docs/developer/Gentoo IMHO) .hc ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list - --- http://at.or.at/hans/ ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list All mankind is of one author, and is one volume; when one man dies, one chapter is not torn out of the book, but translated into a better language; and every chapter must be so translated -John Donne ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Planet Pluto bleibt! ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] cyclone
please be more detailed. right now I am trying to compile from scratch and are in the middle of fink install ffmpeg ffmpeg-dev libavcodec1-dev libavcodec1-shlibs libdv4 speex3 lame-dev lame-shlibs fftw3 libftgl1 libhid0 libquicktime0 faac-shlibs faac-dev libfaad1-dev libfaad1-shlibs libpostproc1 which takes some time. but then I can try. marius. Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: You could just include the cyclone.pd_linux in addition to the libdir that is already there. .hc On Mar 28, 2008, at 1:16 PM, marius schebella wrote: in the shadow folder there is a file cyclone.c. I think that should include this loader functionality. but I don't know if you can build it as a separate object, or if this will only work when you build cyclone as a library and not single objects. marius. Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: I don't really know much about those tools, but it would be really great to have the cyclone importer tool integrated into Pd-extended. .hc On Mar 27, 2008, at 4:45 PM, marius schebella wrote: hi (hans), is there a problem with externals/miXed/shadow/cyclone? did you think about integrating this into pd-extended? I think it is a useful object. can you help me, what do I need to do to get it compiled within the pd-extended build system? marius. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list [W]e have invented the technology to eliminate scarcity, but we are deliberately throwing it away to benefit those who profit from scarcity.-John Gilmore There is no way to peace, peace is the way. -A.J. Muste ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] cyclone
in the shadow folder there is a file cyclone.c. I think that should include this loader functionality. but I don't know if you can build it as a separate object, or if this will only work when you build cyclone as a library and not single objects. marius. Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: I don't really know much about those tools, but it would be really great to have the cyclone importer tool integrated into Pd-extended. .hc On Mar 27, 2008, at 4:45 PM, marius schebella wrote: hi (hans), is there a problem with externals/miXed/shadow/cyclone? did you think about integrating this into pd-extended? I think it is a useful object. can you help me, what do I need to do to get it compiled within the pd-extended build system? marius. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list [W]e have invented the technology to eliminate scarcity, but we are deliberately throwing it away to benefit those who profit from scarcity.-John Gilmore ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] Has anyone tried this Controller?
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/next_gen-input/magicmouse-puts-3d-control-on-your-finger-262453.phpWatch a video http://media.wpi.edu/News/Mouse/Magic_Mouse.asx http://www.wpi.edu/News/Releases/20067/popsciaward.html Hey, with all the talk over alternate controllers, I was wondering if anyone has seen this? Might it be possible to use two or more of these devices and have their data piped into PD/[hid]? Thanks, Mike -- Peace may sound simple—one beautiful word— but it requires everything we have, every quality, every strength, every dream, every high ideal. —Yehudi Menuhin (1916–1999), musician ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] externals/loaders build system WAS: place for loaders
Hey, It would be awesome if you took this on as a project! We've talked a lot about this and I think the following is a good solution: - common externals/configure.in - each project has its own Makefile.am - optionally, each project can have its own configure.in - the common ./configure will allow things like: ./configure --disable-all --enable-zexy --enable-maxlib ./configure --disable-cxc The big disadvantage of having totally self-sufficient build systems for subsection could be that each dev has to maintain the build system to work on all platforms. There could be a way around that, that would be the ideal. Then all of the cross-platform build issues are handled in one place, and a dev only needs to build on their platform to know that things will build on others (for the most part). This part has been working pretty well with the current build system. I think that we should: - use automake and autoconf for the common system. - replace the old makefiles with this system, with the consent of each dev Here is some useful info on this topic: http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-dev/2007-11/010265.html http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/autoconf/2008-03/msg00060.html http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-dev/2006-12/008114.html .hc On Mar 28, 2008, at 1:13 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hi Marius and everybdy, i'm not quite sure what are they? but i reckon the organization of makefiles in the svn is too messy, i was considering an option of actually offering myself taking the responsibility for that! but while considering that, i was tald that the concept is that each subdir is maintained exclusivle by the author ..which i actually respect, as it sort of right way for me, as it gives the individuality to the complite set of software - pd+etx+abs :) still may be we could introduce proper guidlines, especially what 'install' target has to do, the actuall directories where the lib it's helpfile and exples would be put! last time i tryed just simple make .pd_linux make install - it did try to mess up my setup, so i had either both lib and helpfile in one place, or the lib in that place and the helpfile somewhere else ;( and i can remeber what else it done back then .. so i did just copy every usefull file into two dirs that i named abs and ext, all helpfiles could go into subdirs of the two, but i did just out then together. well.. i don't need much stuff of there, just most of the time i've been happy with core objs ;[ the self organised pojects, i mean those which take their own dir, like the mtl bunch and netpd are totaly fine as they are ;) also some makefiles tend to have odd CFLAGS, many are missing -fPIC, which you need on x86_64, so right .. that all wanted to say about that.. also i will meantion here that there still a little annoying issue in Millers's src/ :( the makefile was fixed and the .pd file don't get +x permission when installed, but they together with some other .c files do have it in the src dir, which is definetly the source of the prob ;( well.. i definetly suspect this is comes with cross platform development, when you use the msdos fs, and copy stuff onto and from it, all the files on there when mounted on linux turn out to have +x bit (by default). the fix for it is to put a line like this into fstab: /dev/sde1 /mnt/sd1auto user,group,noauto,rw,noatime,umask=027,fmask=0117,posix,gid=100 0 0 this sets the file and dir mask, the important bits are umask=027 and fmask=0117 the rest is site specific. On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 10:57:44AM -0400, marius schebella wrote: hi, surfing the cvs I just wondered if loaders should be a subdir of externals at all? I can't find a discussion about this in the archives and I also think it is not that important. but shouldn't it go side by side with the externals folder? nevermind... marius. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list I have the audacity to believe that peoples everywhere can have three meals a day for their bodies, education and culture for their minds, and dignity, equality and freedom for their spirits. - Martin Luther King, Jr. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] cyclone
cyclone.pd_linux is the whole cyclone library compiled into one DLL/ dylib/so. I think this is the thing that you mentioned needing for importing Max patches. .hc On Mar 28, 2008, at 1:28 PM, marius schebella wrote: please be more detailed. right now I am trying to compile from scratch and are in the middle of fink install ffmpeg ffmpeg-dev libavcodec1-dev libavcodec1- shlibs libdv4 speex3 lame-dev lame-shlibs fftw3 libftgl1 libhid0 libquicktime0 faac-shlibs faac-dev libfaad1-dev libfaad1-shlibs libpostproc1 which takes some time. but then I can try. marius. Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: You could just include the cyclone.pd_linux in addition to the libdir that is already there. .hc On Mar 28, 2008, at 1:16 PM, marius schebella wrote: in the shadow folder there is a file cyclone.c. I think that should include this loader functionality. but I don't know if you can build it as a separate object, or if this will only work when you build cyclone as a library and not single objects. marius. Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: I don't really know much about those tools, but it would be really great to have the cyclone importer tool integrated into Pd-extended. .hc On Mar 27, 2008, at 4:45 PM, marius schebella wrote: hi (hans), is there a problem with externals/miXed/shadow/cyclone? did you think about integrating this into pd-extended? I think it is a useful object. can you help me, what do I need to do to get it compiled within the pd-extended build system? marius. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http:// lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list --- - [W]e have invented the technology to eliminate scarcity, but we are deliberately throwing it away to benefit those who profit from scarcity.-John Gilmore - --- There is no way to peace, peace is the way. -A.J. Muste Terrorism is not an enemy. It cannot be defeated. It's a tactic. It's about as sensible to say we declare war on night attacks and expect we're going to win that war. We're not going to win the war on terrorism.- retired U.S. Army general, William Odom ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Has anyone tried this Controller?
I am still trying to find something. I will send some email, if I can find an email address... Mike On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 3:22 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Looks like fun. Do they have plans? It should work with [hid] easily since it is just a USB mouse. .hc On Mar 28, 2008, at 1:50 PM, Mike McGonagle wrote: http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/next_gen-input/magicmouse-puts-3d-control-on-your-finger-262453.phpWatch a video http://media.wpi.edu/News/Mouse/Magic_Mouse.asx http://www.wpi.edu/News/Releases/20067/popsciaward.html Hey, with all the talk over alternate controllers, I was wondering if anyone has seen this? Might it be possible to use two or more of these devices and have their data piped into PD/[hid]? Thanks, Mike -- Peace may sound simple—one beautiful word— but it requires everything we have, every quality, every strength, every dream, every high ideal. —Yehudi Menuhin (1916–1999), musician ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list Terrorism is not an enemy. It cannot be defeated. It's a tactic. It's about as sensible to say we declare war on night attacks and expect we're going to win that war. We're not going to win the war on terrorism. - retired U.S. Army general, William Odom -- Peace may sound simple—one beautiful word— but it requires everything we have, every quality, every strength, every dream, every high ideal. —Yehudi Menuhin (1916–1999), musician ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] gem can`t load in my pd-extended-0.40-3
hello: gem don`t loadany idea?? mi info is: /Applications/Pd-extended.app/Contents/Resources/Scripts/../extra/Gem.pd_darwin: dlopen(/Applications/Pd-extended.app/Contents/Resources/Scripts/../extra/Gem.pd_darwin, 10): Symbol not found:_glFramebufferRenderbufferEXT Referenced from:/Applications/Pd-extended.app/Contents/Resources/Scripts/../extra/Gem.pd_darwin Expected in:/System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Versions/A/OpenGL Gem: can't load library MY SYSTEM ANG GRAPHIC CARD INFO: mac OSX 10.4 1.33GHz PowerPC G4 Graphic Card Info Vendor NVIDIA Corporation 1.5 NVIDIA-1.4.0 Renderer NVIDIA NV34MAP OpenGL Core features may be my graphic card driver is old, or my OSX update (from panther to 10.4)don`t update openGLI don`t know why!!! thanks a lot Andrés Ferrari G. http://puredata.org/Members/anfex http://www.myspace.com/anfex http://www.youtube.com/anfex1 ¡Capacidad ilimitada de almacenamiento en tu correo! No te preocupes más por el espacio de tu cuenta con Correo Yahoo!: http://correo.espanol.yahoo.com/ ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] stereo - 8 channel
are there any abstractions or objects to spatialize stereo (or mono, for that matter) sounds to 8 channel? if not, where should i start looking to make something like that? ta ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] FUDIKaosDS
On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 01:22:19PM +0900, PSPunch wrote: Unless I recall incorrectly, FUDIKaosDS does not rely on the DLDI library as it does not access any external file. Yeah that's right - it does everything via WIFI because I couldn't be bothered figuring out the DLDI stuff. To be honest, I have not tried Knobs Sliders yet, only FUDIKasoDS. Maybe these two binaries were built at different timings, or then again, it may just have been me missing something. I haven't updated my R4 in a while. If it is of interest to anyone, maybe I can give Chris's binaries another try and apologize for causing all the noise if necessary. It may well be that I already recompiled it with the newer wifi libraries and have just forgotten about it. Anyway, if anyone is having trouble with the software please feel free to let me know and I'll try to fix it. Best, Chris. --- http://mccormick.cx ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
