Re: [PD] physical modelling/general pd
Le 8 août 08 à 14:46, Julian Brooks a écrit : Hi Jack, Well I was surprised that someone else hadn't tried it already, to be honest. Congratulations, respect, and thanks for showing me that it is indeed possible. If you don't mind I would like to be able to email you with problems that I think you can help/give advise for. I think the better way is to post on the Pd list because i'm not always available to answer (lot of work sometimes) and a lot of people are good users of this programming language. The list exists for this sort of problem ;) You have a lot of time to realize your patch, i think after 12 months you will have a good patch for your wind chime. All you need is to know PD/GEM/PMPD. I will be happy to help you and to answer to you on the list like a lot of other people. ++ Jack Best wishes, Jb -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jack Sent: 08 August 2008 12:38 To: cyrille henry Cc: pd-list@iem.at; Mark Sexton Subject: Re: [PD] physical modelling/general pd Hello Julian, I have done a wind chime there is 2-3 years ago with PD/GEM/PMPD. I used PHP to get on the web the value of direction and force of wind in differents cities in Europe. Here a link for a video without sound (i remove it from the export) : http://djrayban2.free.fr/Movie/windChime.mov ++ Jack Le 8 août 08 à 12:16, cyrille henry a écrit : hello, Mark Sexton a écrit : Hi Julian Building a physical model of a wind chime might be easier than you think, if you use modal or banded waveguide approaches to physical modelling rather than the brute force approach of pmpd. pmpd aim to model the movement, not the sound. the hamer and the tube of a simple wind chime could be modeled with about 10 masses. To create a physical model of the sound is very different. but you need both to model the wind chime. Cyrille If you think of the wind chimes should as stiff bars, banded waveguides would be ideal and are much more computationally efficient to implement than brute force approaches: a resonant filter and delay per mode you want to synthesis. I'd recommend perhaps starting with a simple modal implementation using filters and build up from there. This paper gives a good introduction: http://www.cs.ubc.ca/~kvdoel/publications/modalpaper.pdf If you're not familiar with modal synthesis and banded waveguides there's plenty of information online and Perry Cook's book gives a good overview of a range of approaches to modelling. http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~prc/AKPetersBook.htm Some starting hints if you want to go down this route: 1. Create an impulse: a buffer of noise or single sample impulse 2. Feed this into perhaps 5 band pass IIR filters with a very narrow Q, these will provide your resonant modes for each chime. 3. The frequencies of these filters will probably be non-integer multiples of the fundamental, eventually you can get these by analysing an actual wind chime, but if you wanted to build a proof of concept now then these are typical modes of an aluminium bar (you can find further modal frequency ratios in the Csound manual): [1, 2.756, 5.423, 8.988, 13.448, 18.680] 4. Scale the outputs of each of the resonant filters as appropriate, this should be straight forward once you've done an audio analysis of your wind chime. At this point you have a simple resonating model of a wind chime. 5. Perhaps replace the impulse: you can remove the resonant components of your wind chime recording and this will leave you with the original noise impulse. Using this to trigger your model should help improve realism. 6. Create a banded waveguide version, by adding feedback delays for each mode. (have a read of this paper and a look at Fig. 4): http://soundlab.cs.princeton.edu/publications/1999_icmc_bar.pdf There's a few further tweaks and improvements that can be done, but something along these lines should give a good result, be fairly easy to implement and run more efficiently than brute force. Happy to chat more on or off list on the physical model side or algorithmic composition side, but you may find it easier than you thought once you get going. All the best Mark Sexton Senior Lecturer MSc Computational Sound University of Portsmouth Message: 2 Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 12:30:51 +0100 From: Julian Brooks [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PD] physical modelling/general pd - mentor/tuition sought (money offered) To: pd-list@iem.at Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]@virgin.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi all, I have a 12 month project as part of a masters degree, where I wish to build a physical model of a wind chime. I then want to use the interface to play some of my indeterminate compositions. I was going to attempt it for my undergraduate degree but realised that it was far too complex for the available time that I
[PD] sequencer app for osx
hey, can anyone recommend a good sequencer application for MacOSX? i'm currently using Ableton Live to send MIDI data through the IAC bus to control Pd (since i haven't yet found a pure Pd sequencer i'm happy with), but i'd like to move more toward free software, and also it's a bit of a pain to transfer loops from Ableton to Pd for standalone playback. features it must have: - ability to run different length loops at the same time (eg a 1-bar loop on one layer, a 2-bar loop on another layer, and a 3-beat loop on a third layer) - easy access to velocity and note duration otherwise i'm pretty easy. if nothing turns up i'm considering writing one myself with openFrameworks or Processing.. cheers d -- damian stewart | +31 6 8178 5197 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] frey | live art with machines | http://www.frey.co.nz ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] physical modelling/general pd
Hey Mark, Many thanks for this. I been reading up and scratching around at this for a bit without really getting stuck in(got a couple of Eduardo Miranda's books, hear your doing good things at Plymouth btw), not yet checked the Perry Cook book, will do tho'. It's very helpful to get some concrete proposals instead of just reading about various techniques, with no real knowledge of their possible and well suited applications. My plan atm, is to get the gem/pmpd physical modelling side rolling first (the visual framing is part of my mental/conceptual image of the piece), then moving onto sound generation. After that, hopefully, the fun side of composing will commence, finishing of (hopefully) with some input sensors. I guess what I'm saying is: I'm not quite up to this bit yet but soon come. Also aware that your time will be a lot tighter once term commences. Think this thread could have legs:) Thanks to all for weighing in, I was getting somewhat despondent about it. Got some stamina back, feeling a bit more plugged in. Cheers Jb -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Sexton Sent: 08 August 2008 10:25 To: pd-list@iem.at Subject: [PD] physical modelling/general pd Hi Julian Building a physical model of a wind chime might be easier than you think, if you use modal or banded waveguide approaches to physical modelling rather than the brute force approach of pmpd. If you think of the wind chimes should as stiff bars, banded waveguides would be ideal and are much more computationally efficient to implement than brute force approaches: a resonant filter and delay per mode you want to synthesis. I'd recommend perhaps starting with a simple modal implementation using filters and build up from there. This paper gives a good introduction: http://www.cs.ubc.ca/~kvdoel/publications/modalpaper.pdf If you're not familiar with modal synthesis and banded waveguides there's plenty of information online and Perry Cook's book gives a good overview of a range of approaches to modelling. http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~prc/AKPetersBook.htm Some starting hints if you want to go down this route: 1. Create an impulse: a buffer of noise or single sample impulse 2. Feed this into perhaps 5 band pass IIR filters with a very narrow Q, these will provide your resonant modes for each chime. 3. The frequencies of these filters will probably be non-integer multiples of the fundamental, eventually you can get these by analysing an actual wind chime, but if you wanted to build a proof of concept now then these are typical modes of an aluminium bar (you can find further modal frequency ratios in the Csound manual): [1, 2.756, 5.423, 8.988, 13.448, 18.680] 4. Scale the outputs of each of the resonant filters as appropriate, this should be straight forward once you've done an audio analysis of your wind chime. At this point you have a simple resonating model of a wind chime. 5. Perhaps replace the impulse: you can remove the resonant components of your wind chime recording and this will leave you with the original noise impulse. Using this to trigger your model should help improve realism. 6. Create a banded waveguide version, by adding feedback delays for each mode. (have a read of this paper and a look at Fig. 4): http://soundlab.cs.princeton.edu/publications/1999_icmc_bar.pdf There's a few further tweaks and improvements that can be done, but something along these lines should give a good result, be fairly easy to implement and run more efficiently than brute force. Happy to chat more on or off list on the physical model side or algorithmic composition side, but you may find it easier than you thought once you get going. All the best Mark Sexton Senior Lecturer MSc Computational Sound University of Portsmouth Message: 2 Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 12:30:51 +0100 From: Julian Brooks [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PD] physical modelling/general pd - mentor/tuition sought (money offered) To: pd-list@iem.at Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]@virgin.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi all, I have a 12 month project as part of a masters degree, where I wish to build a physical model of a wind chime. I then want to use the interface to play some of my indeterminate compositions. I was going to attempt it for my undergraduate degree but realised that it was far too complex for the available time that I had then. I have been using pd for a few years now, list lurking, working through basic examples, building simple tools, using other peoples patches etc. But this is too complex for me to do on my own. At my uni there isn't anyone with better skills than me and I don't know of any local fellow patchers. Now as a musician, when I need to up my skills, I will look to find some lessons when I have got as far as I can on my own. So here goes... Is there anyone with an hour a week to spare who can offer some
Re: [PD] physical modelling/general pd
Julian Brooks wrote: My plan atm, is to get the gem/pmpd physical modelling side rolling first (the visual framing is part of my mental/conceptual image of the piece), if you are talking about rigid body interaction, you may also consider using pyode. frank gave some examples on last year's pdconv in montreal http://artengine.ca/~catalogue-pd/8-Barknecht.pdf. marius. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] sequencer app for osx
Damian Stewart wrote: hey, can anyone recommend a good sequencer application for MacOSX? i'm currently using Ableton Live to send MIDI data through the IAC bus to control Pd (since i haven't yet found a pure Pd sequencer i'm happy with) What makes you sad about Pd sequencers? Maybe it's fixable. , but i'd like to move more toward free software, and also it's a bit of a pain to transfer loops from Ableton to Pd for standalone playback. features it must have: - ability to run different length loops at the same time (eg a 1-bar loop on one layer, a 2-bar loop on another layer, and a 3-beat loop on a third layer) Why not run three instances of midifile or even textfile with the same data? - easy access to velocity and note duration Do you mean that the thing should output the duration at the same time as the note-on, or the file should be readable in a text editor? Martin ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] physical modelling/general pd
I'm not an expert in sound. You have to ask to other people on the list for this problem. I only use Pd with simple sound synthesis in my wind chime example. Have a look to Andy's website, it could help : http://www.obiwannabe.co.uk/ This one seems nice for you : http://www.obiwannabe.co.uk/sounds/effect-elastic-collisions.mp3 I can help with GEM and PMPD. ++ Jack Le 9 août 08 à 14:46, Julian Brooks a écrit : Hey Jack, That's cool with me. Out of curiosity, what did you use for the sound generation of your chimes, samples or code - csound/pd/a.n.other? Jb -Original Message- From: Jack [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 09 August 2008 13:16 To: Julian Brooks Cc: pd-list Subject: Re: [PD] physical modelling/general pd Le 8 août 08 à 14:46, Julian Brooks a écrit : Hi Jack, Well I was surprised that someone else hadn't tried it already, to be honest. Congratulations, respect, and thanks for showing me that it is indeed possible. If you don't mind I would like to be able to email you with problems that I think you can help/give advise for. I think the better way is to post on the Pd list because i'm not always available to answer (lot of work sometimes) and a lot of people are good users of this programming language. The list exists for this sort of problem ;) You have a lot of time to realize your patch, i think after 12 months you will have a good patch for your wind chime. All you need is to know PD/GEM/PMPD. I will be happy to help you and to answer to you on the list like a lot of other people. ++ Jack Best wishes, Jb -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jack Sent: 08 August 2008 12:38 To: cyrille henry Cc: pd-list@iem.at; Mark Sexton Subject: Re: [PD] physical modelling/general pd Hello Julian, I have done a wind chime there is 2-3 years ago with PD/GEM/PMPD. I used PHP to get on the web the value of direction and force of wind in differents cities in Europe. Here a link for a video without sound (i remove it from the export) : http://djrayban2.free.fr/Movie/windChime.mov ++ Jack Le 8 août 08 à 12:16, cyrille henry a écrit : hello, Mark Sexton a écrit : Hi Julian Building a physical model of a wind chime might be easier than you think, if you use modal or banded waveguide approaches to physical modelling rather than the brute force approach of pmpd. pmpd aim to model the movement, not the sound. the hamer and the tube of a simple wind chime could be modeled with about 10 masses. To create a physical model of the sound is very different. but you need both to model the wind chime. Cyrille If you think of the wind chimes should as stiff bars, banded waveguides would be ideal and are much more computationally efficient to implement than brute force approaches: a resonant filter and delay per mode you want to synthesis. I'd recommend perhaps starting with a simple modal implementation using filters and build up from there. This paper gives a good introduction: http://www.cs.ubc.ca/~kvdoel/publications/modalpaper.pdf If you're not familiar with modal synthesis and banded waveguides there's plenty of information online and Perry Cook's book gives a good overview of a range of approaches to modelling. http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~prc/AKPetersBook.htm Some starting hints if you want to go down this route: 1. Create an impulse: a buffer of noise or single sample impulse 2. Feed this into perhaps 5 band pass IIR filters with a very narrow Q, these will provide your resonant modes for each chime. 3. The frequencies of these filters will probably be non-integer multiples of the fundamental, eventually you can get these by analysing an actual wind chime, but if you wanted to build a proof of concept now then these are typical modes of an aluminium bar (you can find further modal frequency ratios in the Csound manual): [1, 2.756, 5.423, 8.988, 13.448, 18.680] 4. Scale the outputs of each of the resonant filters as appropriate, this should be straight forward once you've done an audio analysis of your wind chime. At this point you have a simple resonating model of a wind chime. 5. Perhaps replace the impulse: you can remove the resonant components of your wind chime recording and this will leave you with the original noise impulse. Using this to trigger your model should help improve realism. 6. Create a banded waveguide version, by adding feedback delays for each mode. (have a read of this paper and a look at Fig. 4): http://soundlab.cs.princeton.edu/publications/1999_icmc_bar.pdf There's a few further tweaks and improvements that can be done, but something along these lines should give a good result, be fairly easy to implement and run more efficiently than brute force. Happy to chat more on or off list on the physical model side or algorithmic composition side, but you may find it easier than you
Re: [PD] sequencer app for osx
Martin Peach wrote: (since i haven't yet found a pure Pd sequencer i'm happy with) What makes you sad about Pd sequencers? Maybe it's fixable. have you ever used Ableton's MIDI sequencer? it's a piano roll, with blocks for notes. drag start and end points to control noteon/noteoff points. quantize to a grid of any size you want (switchable with a hot-key) or turn off quantization completely to finetune timing (for that little 'humanized' extra, whatever that might mean). super-intuitive scroll and zoom with a single mouse button drag in the top. the main features in this i'm interested in is the quantization grid control, and the ability to super fine-tune note durations. lines down the bottom control velocity. if you have two notes on the piano roll trigger at the same time, it's super-easy to choose which note's velocity you're editing. i don't believe it's do-able in Pd, not without a ridiculous amount of work, and i'm too lazy to do the work myself (and if i wasn't, i'd do it from scratch in a different programming language eg Processing or C++, rather than fighting Tcl/Tk). Why not run three instances of midifile or even textfile with the same data? yes, this is what i'm already doing. the problem is generating said midifile/textfiles in the first place. - easy access to velocity and note duration Do you mean that the thing should output the duration at the same time as the note-on, or the file should be readable in a text editor? no, i mean that i should be able to easily see and edit the duration and the velocity without having to think or do much work. see above.. -- damian stewart | +31 6 8178 5197 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] frey | live art with machines | http://www.frey.co.nz ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Calling Mac OS X 10.3 Panther users! Please test new release!
On Jul 29, 2008, at 3:06 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: On Jul 29, 2008, at 6:03 AM, Enrique Erne wrote: Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: Try this one: http://idmi.poly.edu/pdlab/Pd-0.40.3-extended-rc3/Pd-0.40.3- extended-rc3-macosx103-powerpc.dmg This rc3 build worked on 10.3, so it should be possible to make a final 10.3 release without too much work. .hc there was a typo in the link. this worked for me: http://idmi.poly.edu/pdlab/Pd-0.40.3-extended-rc3-macosx103- powerpc.dmg looks good now! Pd opens. zexy (and ~), maxlib, t3_lib are ok. matrix can't create but iemmatrix/matrix does (note: with rc4 [matrix] works) Gem, PDP, and Pidip seem to not do well. Ok, could you try this one: http://autobuild.puredata.info/auto-build/2008-07-29/Pd-0.40.3- extended-macosx103.dmg I know Gem won't work, I'll fix that later, but please test the rest. .hc Anyone on Mac OS X 10.3 and will test this? I would like to put out a working 10.3 build, but I can't do it on my own, since I don't have acess to a 10.3 machine. .hc eni libdir loader $Revision: 1.8 $ written by Hans-Christoph Steiner [EMAIL PROTECTED] compiled on Jul 1 2008 at 04:02:40 compiled against Pd version 0.40.3.extended-20080701 hex loader $Revision: 1.5 $ written by IOhannes m zmölnig, IEM [EMAIL PROTECTED] compiled on Jul 1 2008 at 04:02:41 compiled against Pd version 0.40.3.extended-20080701 /Applications/Pd-extended.app/Contents/Resources/extra/Gem.pd_darwin: dlcompat: dyld: /Applications/Pd-extended.app/Contents/Resources/Scripts/../bin/pd can't open library: /usr/X11R6/lib/libfreetype.6.dylib (No such file or directory, errno = 2) /Applications/Pd-extended.app/Contents/Resources/extra/Gem.pd_darwin: dlcompat: dyld: /Applications/Pd-extended.app/Contents/Resources/Scripts/../bin/pd can't open library: /usr/X11R6/lib/libfreetype.6.dylib (No such file or directory, errno = 2) Gem: can't load library libdir_loader: added 'cyclone' to the global objectclass path libdir_loader: added 'zexy' to the global objectclass path libdir_loader: added 'creb' to the global objectclass path libdir_loader: added 'cxc' to the global objectclass path libdir_loader: added 'iemlib' to the global objectclass path libdir_loader: added 'list-abs' to the global objectclass path libdir_loader: added 'mapping' to the global objectclass path libdir_loader: added 'markex' to the global objectclass path libdir_loader: added 'maxlib' to the global objectclass path libdir_loader: added 'memento' to the global objectclass path libdir_loader: added 'mjlib' to the global objectclass path libdir_loader: added 'motex' to the global objectclass path libdir_loader: added 'oscx' to the global objectclass path libdir_loader: added 'pddp' to the global objectclass path libdir_loader: added 'pdogg' to the global objectclass path libdir_loader: added 'pixeltango' to the global objectclass path libdir_loader: added 'pmpd' to the global objectclass path libdir_loader: added 'rradical' to the global objectclass path libdir_loader: added 'sigpack' to the global objectclass path libdir_loader: added 'smlib' to the global objectclass path libdir_loader: added 'toxy' to the global objectclass path libdir_loader: added 'unauthorized' to the global objectclass path libdir_loader: added 'pan' to the global objectclass path libdir_loader: added 'freeverb' to the global objectclass path libdir_loader: added 'hcs' to the global objectclass path libdir_loader: added 'jmmmp' to the global objectclass path libdir_loader: added 'ext13' to the global objectclass path libdir_loader: added 'ggee' to the global objectclass path libdir_loader: added 'flib' to the global objectclass path libdir_loader: added 'ekext' to the global objectclass path libdir_loader: added 'flatspace' to the global objectclass path /Applications/Pd-extended.app/Contents/Resources/extra/pdp.pd_darwin: dlcompat: dyld: /Applications/Pd-extended.app/Contents/Resources/Scripts/../bin/pd can't open library: /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.6.dylib (No such file or directory, errno = 2) /Applications/Pd-extended.app/Contents/Resources/extra/pdp.pd_darwin: dlcompat: dyld: /Applications/Pd-extended.app/Contents/Resources/Scripts/../bin/pd can't open library: /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.6.dylib (No such file or directory, errno = 2) pdp: can't load library /Applications/Pd-extended.app/Contents/Resources/extra/ pidip.pd_darwin: dlcompat: dyld: /Applications/Pd-extended.app/Contents/Resources/Scripts/../bin/pd can't open library: /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.6.dylib (No such file or directory, errno = 2) /Applications/Pd-extended.app/Contents/Resources/extra/ pidip.pd_darwin: dlcompat: dyld: /Applications/Pd-extended.app/Contents/Resources/Scripts/../bin/pd can't open library: /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.6.dylib (No such file or directory, errno = 2) pidip: can't load library
Re: [PD] sequencer app for osx
Yo Damien, I've been working on exactly that for the past few months using Pd's venerable data structures. It has quantization, a piano underlay, draggable notes, draggable lengths, draggable velocity, zooming X Y, draggable looping, the whole bit (layers coming soon, but you can of course run many of them side by side; I'm working on a synchronization system since running multiple instances makes it more fun to do polyrhythms). Thanks to some wonderful shortcuts Miller built in to DS arrays, you can add and remove notes (and even shift groups of notes) really easily. But, there are some bugs in Pd that prevent it from being everyday usable... the two major ones are that the notes are in a quantized DS array (for performance reasons), which exposes a very painful interaction bug where dragging is just close enough to working to be horribly frustrating, and editing the notes (to change lengths or velocity) only really works for the notes closest to time 0. And, finally, Z-ordering is undefined and gets screwed up every time you open the window (but, I've worked around that one for the most part with some hacks). So, I'll wrap it up and post it after I locate all the stuff necessary to run it. It should convince you that such a thing is most definitely attainable in Pd, and perhaps Miller will be so excited that his language for the future of music is being used to make a 30-year old interface, that he will go fix the bugs immediately : ) (I promise though Miller, my actual goal is to build a happy environment for both traditional grid-note-editing and graphical type stuff like in 4.data.structures/07.sequencer) Back soon, Luke On Sat, Aug 9, 2008 at 12:43 PM, Damian Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Martin Peach wrote: (since i haven't yet found a pure Pd sequencer i'm happy with) What makes you sad about Pd sequencers? Maybe it's fixable. have you ever used Ableton's MIDI sequencer? it's a piano roll, with blocks for notes. drag start and end points to control noteon/noteoff points. quantize to a grid of any size you want (switchable with a hot-key) or turn off quantization completely to finetune timing (for that little 'humanized' extra, whatever that might mean). super-intuitive scroll and zoom with a single mouse button drag in the top. the main features in this i'm interested in is the quantization grid control, and the ability to super fine-tune note durations. lines down the bottom control velocity. if you have two notes on the piano roll trigger at the same time, it's super-easy to choose which note's velocity you're editing. i don't believe it's do-able in Pd, not without a ridiculous amount of work, and i'm too lazy to do the work myself (and if i wasn't, i'd do it from scratch in a different programming language eg Processing or C++, rather than fighting Tcl/Tk). Why not run three instances of midifile or even textfile with the same data? yes, this is what i'm already doing. the problem is generating said midifile/textfiles in the first place. - easy access to velocity and note duration Do you mean that the thing should output the duration at the same time as the note-on, or the file should be readable in a text editor? no, i mean that i should be able to easily see and edit the duration and the velocity without having to think or do much work. see above.. -- damian stewart | +31 6 8178 5197 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] frey | live art with machines | http://www.frey.co.nz ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
