Re: [PD] Res: Res: music made with Pd
On Tue, 29 Jun 2010, Eduardo Patricio wrote: The chorus effect is interesting, I believe it contributes to the timbre you're building. I like the lower pitches too. But I like the previous sound better. I also miss the original non-chorus sound, so, I'm wondering whether I could use both at once. It's very similar to trying to use a 6-string guitar and a 12-string guitar at once while not being able to choose between the two. I suppose that this is what originally led people to want two-neck guitars... ;) In the previous version the timbre is more clear, bright and detached from the drumming background, I like that. Well, there are several differences that I didn't state, perhaps some that I don't remember. I messed around with the instrument itself in ways I just don't remember, that changed the sharpness of the sound. Also, the doubling of the bells itself changes the sharpness of the sound, because of the various cancellations it causes (tremolo by battements). And then I changed the drumming background somewhat, because it sounded too random. There's a probabilistic effect that causes the "bass drum" impression to be unusually loud in a random way, and too often way too quiet. So I turned off the noisificator in the case of the drums, but I still use it in the bells. Maybe you could find a way to explore both, low and high pitches, At this point, you know, each version of the piece spans over four octaves. Thus the difference between the two versions, which is only one octave, seems not very significant in comparison. But it ends up sounding quite different, perhaps most importantly because there's a very strong «home pitch» in this piece, that you keep on hearing all of the time. creating variation. In general, I believe that if you could do this, variation, connected to some sort of underneath developing formal structure (which means you could say, my music goes from here to somewhere else, tracing lines...), this tune would be even better. I'm still wondering about this one, but it's probably because I haven't tried much yet in that direction. But if I start messing with the pitches more, it may hide the underlying structure too much, quite easily, so I have to be careful. One element you could try to vary could be the selected pitches. What is your present criteria for the pitches? Binary coding mapped to subsets of a certain set of intervals, each of which is then summed. I tried a few different base sets, then settled for something that would give pentatonics and octave patterns. Maybe you could use different sets of them, each one with strong intervallic characteristics, for different "sections" of your tune... It would de-emphasise the fact that all the measures are connected by a magic pattern that constantly refers to parts of itself throughout the piece. It's a kind of fractal score, almost. Actually, part of the score appeared as a stock photo in a newspaper recently, which I saw on the same day you wrote that mail : http://www.cyberpresse.ca/images/bizphotos/569x379/201006/12/178123.jpg (really.) _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard, Montréal, Québec. téléphone: +1.514.383.3801___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] interface/pd-based standalone applications question
On Tue, 6 Jul 2010, David Schaffer wrote:
My original question was: how to build graphical user interfaces for pd
patches that would look more like standard software
Here's an example for you. Here is the serveur.pd patch, which you will
start first :
#N canvas 0 0 450 300 10;
#X obj 7 5 netreceive 23456;
#X obj 7 24 bng 15 250 50 0 empty empty empty 17 7 0 10 -262144 -1 -1;
#X connect 0 0 1 0;
and here is piton.tcl, which you will then run, using the "wish" command :
set tibas [socket localhost 23456]
fconfigure $tibas -buffering line
button .b -text "hello, how are you?" -command {puts $tibas "bang;"}
pack .b -padx 10 -pady 10
and then you click on the button of the latter programme and it will
activate the bang button in the former programme (patch).
you can replace "localhost" by any recognised hostname that the server
patch may be running on, and change the port number to whatever agreed
upon by both programmes.
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[PD] Jack, Pd-extended, Lucid and me.
Hi. I'm going to try to expose the problems I've met during the last two month dealing with the title of my post. Sorry if it's confused. This winter, I used to work on an Ubuntu Hardy, Extended 0.41.4 and with the jackd and qjackctl from the official repository (by the way, my sound card is a firewire Presonus Firepod). I had no problem to use 4 different instances of Pd at the same time using jackd as sound server. (and I can precise I didn't need RT-kernel to do what I wanted). I recently change for Ubuntu Lucid. So I also change for Pd 0.42.5 (rc4) and the new official jackd and qjackctl. If I use the kernel 2.6.32-23, I can play my patch on one instance, it's stable but the sound crunch a little bit sometimes. I also can execute my patch on 4 instances, but the sound is awful and 3 minutes later, Jack quit. So I've try the 2.6.31-11-rt. In Pd-ext, If I change directly from ALSA to Jack, pd quit. Every time I have to change to OSS before to choice Jack and I can't save the jack configuration. On one instance the sound is perfect and stable. It's possible to launch 4 instances without patch and to hear simultaneously the 4 tests tones on my sound card using jack. But it's impossible to launch even 2 instances with my patch. Both quit at the same time when I try to pass from OSS to Jack on the second. Console message just tell me that GUI of Pd have quited. My patch is the one you can find on this page : http://yamatierea.org/papatchs/squareroom/OSR.htm Direct link for the patch : http://yamatierea.org/papatchs/squareroom/OSR.zip But be careful if you look inside... it's still a little bit fuzzy... Do you think there is a way to solve my problem ? --> Using my patch, simultaneously on 4 instances of Pd-extended using Jack on Ubuntu 10.04? Thank you. 01ivier ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] software license for pd general patch?
how does this auto generation works? See that the file is loading another source file (on its line 3), which you can find at http://gridflow.ca/svn/trunk/doc/locale/english.tcl ... the only important lines are the ones that say "say". (if you want to know more about this, I will tell you more). if/when I come back to manage my object list (and possibly make an update for the floss book), I'll get to this topic. for now I have no time. I would like to keep updating my list, but in an automatic way. It might be easier to keep it updated automatically, but it depends what you want to write in that file. If it's essentially just the same contents as the GridFlow Index pd file, then I can generate the file you want and bundle it with every version of GridFlow. for the public, the same structure as is in the floss book: class name, short sentence with description. a better version would show for which OSs it works, and maybe some other internal remarks to the list manager. that's the same thing. then you'll be loosing time by typing a score which has always the same rhythm/tempo. better put a metro with a mod, and you have it. the music for which the program is made is more like: Ah yeah, that's a good example score-wise. But then, the problems with such scores are things like the flirting too close to the "uncertainty principle" (tempo is used for a time too short to be really felt) and the "consonance" of tempos (13:10 can be quite hard to distinguish from 4:3 in many circumstances, just like such ratios of frequencies can). But you picked extreme scores, and I can see very well how pieces of much lesser complexity than that can be a lot more followable by the ear _while_ at the same time having much of a use for a complex programmable super-metronome. I won't go into the discussion if that notation makes sense - that's an old one, and not really productive. anyway, for good composers and performers, it's important to write/perform everything as it is there. for composers who just go into the train and copy the formulas, they won't notice the difference, and performers usually notice that they really don't care as much. but it doesn't have to be used only by this people. the harpsichord teacher where I studied, Robert Hill (brother of the best harpsichord builder around, Keneth Hill), usually works with electronic metronomes to mark the barlines, in order to practice his rubato while playing (barocke or even earlier music, that is). ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] low latency jack vs Alsa
I created a rather complex patch which gives me some troubles when I use Jack with low latency settings. No XRuns but DIO errors when I click or even hover over some tables. Just for fun I tried running it with Alsa with same buffer settings as Jack before and dont get any DIO erros at all while editing tables. The system is PD-Extended under Archlinux (custom compiled but I cant remember if I had the same troubles as in the other thread. There was something GEM/video related and IOhannes helped me at LAC 2010 but not sure what it was) with custom low latency kernel and other software runs just fine with Jack. I would like to keep using Jack with PD under low latency conditions so which parameters I could tweak to get rid of DIO errors while using the gui? I tried changing realtime settings with chrt of the pd process, starting pd with and without -rt and -nosleep and so on.Tested with old and new, second generation Jack. Cheers for any hints, Malte -- media art + development http://www.block4.com ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] interface/pd-based standalone applications question
The funny thing is that I started this thread a couple of days ago and these last posts about "SLOC" and "COCOMO" are totally cryptic to me!!! My original question was: how to build graphical user interfaces for pd patches that would look more like standard software and be less "disturbing" to non-pd devellopers (especially meaningfull when building a virtual lighting board for instance, like this guy I met in Avignon, France the other day with a max patch, he had even found a way to remotely control it with his Iphone... very impressive). The other part of the question was : how to bundle the no-gui pd patch with the new interface and all the pd install files so the patch could be distributed as a standard application on any... say... windows computer... or else). A couple of people have mentioned the processing environement; If anyone has new tips to bring up, I'd be more than happy to know: would visual basic, python or Qt do the job? Thank you all for your involvement! People who want to continue to discuss "SLOCOMO" issues (whatever it is...) are, of course, very welcome to do so, but it might be a good idea to start a new, dedicated thread for this highly technical subject. I hope I did not offense anyone, it really isn't my point: I love all Pd related questions. David Schaffer > > I think the point was simply that Miller deserves credit for his > > essential contributions to pd. I don't think this is the place to > > discuss your problems with SLOC and COCOMO. > > A point worth making, is a point worth making with a good support. If the > point is being supported by SLOC and COCOMO, then SLOC and COCOMO become > as on-topic as anything else used to support an argument about something > on-topic. > > I agree with the point as much as anyone else, but I disagree with the > means to support it. I'd rather put no figures at all, than figures that > are not meaningful. > > _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... > | Mathieu Bouchard, Montréal, Québec. téléphone: +1.514.383.3801 _ Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] software license for pd general patch?
- "Mathieu Bouchard" a écrit : > On Tue, 6 Jul 2010, João Pais wrote: > > that's the same thing. then you'll be loosing time by typing a score > > > which has always the same rhythm/tempo. better put a metro with a > mod, > > and you have it. the music for which the program is made is more > like: > > Ah yeah, that's a good example score-wise. > > But then, the problems with such scores are things like the flirting > too > close to the "uncertainty principle" (tempo is used for a time too > short > to be really felt) and the "consonance" of tempos (13:10 can be quite > hard > to distinguish from 4:3 in many circumstances, just like such ratios > of > frequencies can). But you picked extreme scores, and I can see very > well > how pieces of much lesser complexity than that can be a lot more > followable by the ear _while_ at the same time having much of a use > for a > complex programmable super-metronome. > This uncertainty principle would only apply to uncertain styles of music, main differences between rythms are about how you interpret them If the rythm is played like every step with no accent, no one would make a difference between 11:8 , 4:4, 7:16 ... that's why we use some patterns where it's easier to recognize differents ratios, and those patterns are things that defines the style of the music. If we compare both the music of Ministry and the music of a Taraf de Haïdouks we would have for the same complex bars but different kinds of musics, because they use different kinds of patterns. In fact even in a simple 4:4 bar, the need for a variable metronome is quite necessary for orchestras. Different sections don't play their parts at the same tempo, if you pay attention to it, technicaly a section would play better if the tempo is slower or higher for different parts, that's why there is conductor. pryvitannie -- Patrice Colet ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] software license for pd general patch?
On Tue, 6 Jul 2010, João Pais wrote: there might be, but a) I have no interest or purpose on doing it, and b) there wouldn't be any really useful abstractions coming out of this. in fact, it might even make my programming slower (because I would have to manage x programs instead of 1), and the whole thing more confusing to manage. Well, there could be some kind of variation on the idea, such as bundling some things together to save some time and hassle. Generally speaking, never distribute too many things at once. This is why people make libraries by author instead of by topic : it's a matter of source code management, bundling management, etc., so that one person only has to install one library, or at most, a small number of large libraries, rather than a large amount of small libraries. how does this auto generation works? See that the file is loading another source file (on its line 3), which you can find at http://gridflow.ca/svn/trunk/doc/locale/english.tcl ... the only important lines are the ones that say "say". (if you want to know more about this, I will tell you more). Then in the main script, the lines that say "puts" add commands to the pd file, such as object creations, comment creations, canvas header, ... The rest of the lines are there to figure out where to put the objects, how much spacing to put, and whether there are any objects that need mandatory args or that absolutely need to be represented by direct hyperlinks to helppatches, etc. I would like to keep updating my list, but in an automatic way. I do write all I can in the ChangeLog, though sometimes there are omissions (usually in case of classes that were originally meant for internal use, but there are other reasons sometimes). It might be easier to keep it updated automatically, but it depends what you want to write in that file. If it's essentially just the same contents as the GridFlow Index pd file, then I can generate the file you want and bundle it with every version of GridFlow. I was thinking of an approach of something that goes through the folders and makes a database out of the files(objects) that it finds. I have a script that browses through GF source code and abstraction folders and compares it with the doc index and helppatch folder, to figure out anything that might be missing. That's http://gridflow.ca/svn/trunk/doc/find_missing.rb and as you can see, I tend to be quite often in between Tcl and Ruby, which doesn't quite help me making things unified. If we keep a version of your file in the GridFlow repository, I could have find_missing.rb also check for needed changes in your file as well, if you have any reason to make "manual" changes (that is, only "semi"-automated). that's the same thing. then you'll be loosing time by typing a score which has always the same rhythm/tempo. better put a metro with a mod, and you have it. the music for which the program is made is more like: Ah yeah, that's a good example score-wise. But then, the problems with such scores are things like the flirting too close to the "uncertainty principle" (tempo is used for a time too short to be really felt) and the "consonance" of tempos (13:10 can be quite hard to distinguish from 4:3 in many circumstances, just like such ratios of frequencies can). But you picked extreme scores, and I can see very well how pieces of much lesser complexity than that can be a lot more followable by the ear _while_ at the same time having much of a use for a complex programmable super-metronome. _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard, Montréal, Québec. téléphone: +1.514.383.3801___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] interface/pd-based standalone applications question
On Tue, 6 Jul 2010, Ben Baker-Smith wrote: I think the point was simply that Miller deserves credit for his essential contributions to pd. I don't think this is the place to discuss your problems with SLOC and COCOMO. A point worth making, is a point worth making with a good support. If the point is being supported by SLOC and COCOMO, then SLOC and COCOMO become as on-topic as anything else used to support an argument about something on-topic. I agree with the point as much as anyone else, but I disagree with the means to support it. I'd rather put no figures at all, than figures that are not meaningful. _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard, Montréal, Québec. téléphone: +1.514.383.3801___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] interface/pd-based standalone applications question
I think the point was simply that Miller deserves credit for his essential contributions to pd. I don't think this is the place to discuss your problems with SLOC and COCOMO. Ben Baker-Smith -- http://bitsynthesis.com > I have no idea. I just meant that if anyone deserves to be cooked meals > > because of Pd related things, then it's Miller. That is a lot of lines > > of source code (only 25,000 of them are portaudio/portmidi). > > First of all, if you consider portaudio and portmidi like the separate > projects that they are and that Miller didn't write and that is not really > part of Pd in any way, the total SLOC drops to 68000. > > Next, Miller is not completely alone in writing Pd. You probably know that > already. It's not even a very small or neglectible amount. In SLOC count, > Thomas Musil contributed 10% of the source code alone, as the original > author of the IEMGUI library. > > Then you probably know what is copy-paste. IIRC, about 1300 lines of code > of IEMGUI can be explained by a one-liner sed | diff | wc command. Then > there is other copy-paste in places like d_math.c and x_arithmetic.c for > which I made the demonstration that they can be shrunk to less than 20% of > their size using macros *while* keeping all optimisations in. (not sure I > posted on the lists about it, though). > > Then the "basic COCOMO model" does not take copy-paste into account, > therefore it's na?ve at best, a fraud at worst. It's also highly dependent > on many other things it shouldn't be dependent on, thus it's most > certainly unlikely to be accurate at all. > > Braces change the SLOC. The 72-character maximum that comes from IBM > punchcards) changes the SLOC. Statement size changes the SLOC (say > something short as two statements, you have two lines, but say it as one, > you have one line). Think about it, you even charge for the blank lines > and all the lines that say // , no matter how many a given > programmer decides to put. > > All the Basic COCOMO model ever does correctly is punish any people who > try to save on the number of lines of code. > ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] software license for pd general patch?
this isn't part of my abstractions (at /extra/jmmmp), it's a "full program". it doesn't come with pd-ext, it's on my pd page. I would say that it's as big as all my abstractions together, but never measured it. Ok, now it brings this question to my mind : is there anything you can break away from your full programme such that the full programme becomes smaller and the abstractions library becomes bigger, in a manner that the new abstractions are really things that can be useful for any other purpose than the one of the full programme ? It's a big key for making your full programme worth doing : recycle as many parts as possible, or at least make them recycling-ready. there might be, but a) I have no interest or purpose on doing it, and b) there wouldn't be any really useful abstractions coming out of this. in fact, it might even make my programming slower (because I would have to manage x programs instead of 1), and the whole thing more confusing to manage. I had started talks with a friend that does data visualisation to make a patch to automatise the listing, but he bailed out. so I have to do the work by hand. The GridFlow Index is auto-generated by http://gridflow.ca/svn/trunk/doc/make_index.tcl (which also includes a list of exceptions that have to be made in that patch). You could use that as an idea for building the index in a wiki format or csv format, whichever you need for flossmanual. how does this auto generation works? I looked at it, but I don't know tcl, and can't really learn it now (and really don't want to learn it). Since there is no submission/peer review process for externals in pd-extra, I would like to keep updating my list, but in an automatic way. I was thinking of an approach of something that goes through the folders and makes a database out of the files(objects) that it finds. not perfect, as there will be exceptions to manage, but better than doing it by hand (which is how I did the list so far). if you don't want just to do 10m of 4/4 Well, I don't, but the problem with that, is that I usually want to do 10m of 7/4 instead. ;) that's the same thing. then you'll be loosing time by typing a score which has always the same rhythm/tempo. better put a metro with a mod, and you have it. the music for which the program is made is more like: -http://www.google.com/images?client=opera&rls=de&q=brian+ferneyhough&num=50&oe=utf-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&ei=sz4zTK7TNYKbOP2BsdYK&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CDsQsAQwAw - http://www.bmic.co.uk/images/ausgangspunkte.gif - http://www.renewohlhauser.com/image.php?file=files%2Fimages%2Fi60_quotduometriequot_seite_11.gif etc etc ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] compiling pd-extended on arch linux
Mathieu Bouchard wrote: > On Tue, 6 Jul 2010, James Dunn wrote: > > >Seems like I just had to install pkg-config. It now finds the > >imagemagick library but fails with a new error: > >videoV4L2.cpp:389:31: error: ‘fstat’ was not declared in this scope > >videoV4L2.cpp:394:27: error: ‘S_ISCHR’ was not declared in this scope > > Try adding this line near the top : > > #include mathieu beat me to it.. you may also need: #include ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] compiling pd-extended on arch linux
On Tue, 6 Jul 2010, James Dunn wrote: Seems like I just had to install pkg-config. It now finds the imagemagick library but fails with a new error: videoV4L2.cpp:389:31: error: ‘fstat’ was not declared in this scope videoV4L2.cpp:394:27: error: ‘S_ISCHR’ was not declared in this scope Try adding this line near the top : #include _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard, Montréal, Québec. téléphone: +1.514.383.3801___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] [PD-announce] Medialab-Prado presents Interactivos?'10: Neighborhood Science projects showcase in Madrid
*MEDIALAB-PRADO* Plaza de las Letras C/ Alameda, 15 28014 Madrid (Spain) +34 913 692 303 www.medialab-prado.es * *_ _ Interactivos?'10: Neighborhood Science *Art and new techologies showcase through July 31, 2010 @ Medialab-Prado (c/ Alameda, 15, Plaza de las Letras in Madrid) *_ Madrid, July 2010_ Medialab-Prado presents "Interactivos?'10: Neighborhood Science" digital art exhibition, where ten prototypes developed by nearly 70 artists, scientifics, teachers, designers and a variety of professionals, students and fun of DIY and DIWO (Do It With Others) will be on showcase. This exhibition aims to offer a new and experimental point of view about what you can do with low cost tools applied ot the work with the local environment, urban ecology, citizen collaboration networks, etc. Visitors will be able to "listen" to satellites surrounding us (Birds Within); research urban water analisys methods (Lilipod); easily create solar powered electronic devices (Open Solar Circuits) and participate in a discarded objects project (re:tag), among others. Free admission. More information: http://medialab-prado.es/article/interactivos10_muestra_de_proyectos Tue - Fri: 10 am - 8 pm Sat: 11am - 8 pm Sun: 11 am - 3 pm -- Nerea García Garmendia Comunicación / Press Medialab-Prado Área de Las Artes, Ayuntamiento de Madrid Plaza de las Letras Alameda, 15 28014 Madrid Tfno. +34 914 202 754 difus...@medialab-prado.es www.medialab-prado.es ___ Pd-announce mailing list pd-annou...@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] readanysf~ error
> > so, I tracked down this bug. File handles were being inadvertently left > > open. > > > > I made a new version of readanysf~ with reworking of the code based on > > adjustments I had been making for other stuff I am working . It should > > provide for more stable and modular code. Seeking should also be > > non-blocking and smoother now. > > > > Can I ask linux users to download and test it, please: > > > > http://aug.ment.org/software/readanysf~0.40.tar.gz > > make gives me: > > > g++ -c -o objs/ReadMedia.o src/ReadMedia.cpp -I./ -I/usr/include > -I/usr/include/gavl -I/usr/include/gmerlin -I/usr/include -Wall > src/ReadMedia.cpp: In constructor ‘ReadMedia::ReadMedia()’: > src/ReadMedia.cpp:42: error: ‘GAVL_INTERLACE_UNKNOWN’ was not declared > in this scope > make: *** [objs/ReadMedia.o] Error 1 > - > > By commenting out line 42 of src/ReadMedia.cpp: > >m_video_format.interlace_mode=GAVL_INTERLACE_UNKNOWN; > > it compiles fine. Is that GAVL_INTERLACE_UNKOWN thing needed at all for > the audio-oriented readanysf~? Should I be worried when commenting it > out? > > Cheers and thanks for the fixes > Roman no, it is not needed by readanysf~ and can be safely commented out or just changed to: m_video_format.interlace_mode=GAVL_INTERLACE_NONE; -august. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
