Re: [PD] Maybe I'm pushing dynamic object creation too far
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 2011-02-02 01:00, Ed Kelly wrote: I get dropouts, regardless of the jack buffer size/buffers number. Is this because the dynamic creation of a new object interrupts the pd audio stream? If so, can this be alleviated - 1. is it a GUI problem (and will pd 0.43 fix it) and 2. if so, can pd -nogui sort it out? given that you most likely do all the dynamic creation inside a closed canvas/window, the gui can be ruled out: so, no 0.43 won't fix your problems for you, nor will -nogui [1] the problem most likely comes from the DSP graph being continuously rebuilt. the only things you can do for now is: - - try to reduce rebuilding of the DSP graph as much as possible. needeless to say that you shouldn't dynamically create objects that are not needed. more interesting is that e.g. creating 3 objects while audio is running, will re-caculate the DSP graph 3 times. even if this happens in 0 logical time. so i you know you are going to schedule several dynamically created objects at once, turn audio off before and turn it on again after you do the actual creation. - - try to get the DSP graph building into a separate thread. well, this involves pd~ or the like fgmasdr IOhannes [1] btw, it's usually really easy to check things: e.g. running your patch with -nogui and see whether you get dropouts might take about the same time as (you) asking on this list, (me) answering on this list and (you) reading the answer - not counting the delay due to amil-servers and the like. anyhow. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk1JKCQACgkQkX2Xpv6ydvQzfQCgsvmL0cevgXGPbL1oZW4keMcu diwAoJaN6Pvheh261jAZwzr2CpJ78ypV =z/KF -END PGP SIGNATURE- smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] [PD-announce] 3rd Pd Scots Users Meet Up, 4th February, Glasgow
(sorry for x-posting) Hi all, here a little reminder. On Friday 4th February we'll be gathering for the 3rd Pure Data Scots User MeetUp. The meeting kicks off at 15.00 at the Electron room, CCA, Glasgow. Meeting is free, public and open to all practitioners, beginners, artists, programmers, musicians, passionates of digital arts and simply anybody who might be interested in spending few hours patching, talking, sharing ideas, making some noise, teach and learn. We encourage you to actively take part in our newborn community and propose presentations or talks for next meetings. Simply come over and show something you have been doing with Pd. The user group is a great chance to collect feedbacks about your patches and ideas. If you want to keep up to date with our activities, please subscribe to the Pd Scots User list at: http://lists.electronclub.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pdusers The Pd Scots User Group and mailing list is kindly hosted by Electron Club. http://www.electronclub.org/doku.php http://www.cca-glasgow.com Hope to see you soon! -- Marco Donnarumma aka TheSAD Independent New Media Arts Professional, Performer, Teacher Ongoing MSc by Research, University of Edinburgh, UK PORTFOLIO: http://marcodonnarumma.com LAB: http://www.thesaddj.com | http://cntrl.sourceforge.net | http://www.flxer.net EVENT: http://www.liveperformersmeeting.net ___ Pd-announce mailing list pd-annou...@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Am I alone?
Music is something we can have permenantly in the mind, and this is actually hidden from anyone point of view, no one would be actually ridiculous by generating music with brain (Can you say that about chicken dance?). Tools have been developped to reproduce this music for sharing a projection around a consensus that is different following different social groups. We're just trying not to be alone. If you play didjeridoo your brain will reproduce sounds of didjeridoo as well as melodies or any kind of language, where accurateness will depends of the the understanding of the mind that is trying to reproduce it. Listeners might need to be educated but I have some reasons to doubt about it, a baby for example would rather get comfortable with smooth, nice music that uses to follow the rules of intelligent structures rather than weird noises coming out from industrail machines or randomly tuned synthetisers (rather that things we are undergoing). At the other side, a too well educated listener might get bored when melodies always follow the same rules, like if we always take the same road, with same conditions, that's certainly why composers came to arrhythmia, dodecaphonism, serial and spectral music, for breaking the rules. But like in everything there is a need for an equilibrium. Breaking the rule for just breaking the rule have no interest if the rule have not been deployed along a musical piece, if the composer or the interpret don't navigate in and out of the rule, musicality can easyly loose it's interest to be listened. There is no interest to play out of tune if there is no tune at all. Also there is not idea *behind* music, music *is* the idea. And anyway, anytime, music is the best. - Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com a écrit : Reasonable Kate: Have you ever heard of the Chicken Dance? Questionable Chris: There is no such thing as the Chicken Dance. The Chicken Dance is not a thing at all but an activity, something that people do. Sad irony: Chris ends up _not_ dancing that night. -Jonathan --- On Wed, 2/2/11, J. Simon van der Walt tedthetrum...@gmail.com wrote: From: J. Simon van der Walt tedthetrum...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [PD] Am I alone? To: pd-list@iem.at Date: Wednesday, February 2, 2011, 6:46 AM On 2 February 2011 03:13, Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com wrote: But we're not talking about the man, we're talking about the music. ‘There is no such thing as music. Music is not a thing at all but an activity, something that people do.’ Christopher Small (1998) ‘Musicking: The Meanings of Performing and Listening’ -- J. Simon van der Walt - Composer www.jsimonvanderwalt.com +44 (0) 7905 270 198 ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Patrice Colet ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] R: Re: saving relative paths in a textfile
Messaggio originale Da: ma...@artengine.ca [gf/find_file] searches the pd path (list of -path options or equivalent menu in the settings). [cut] If you don't want to have to type the name of the patch, you can use [gf/canvas_filename] to find it : [cut] But note that if the pd patch was open with a location relative to the CWD, then [gf/find_file] may output a relative name, as in the screenshot. [cut] and in such cases, the reported location will be incomplete, though it can be completed using [gf/getcwd] thank you mathieu, If i didn't misunderstood, your hint is to get the patch's path and compare it with the sound file's path given by openpanel, to obtain a relative path. So, as an example, if the patch containing the arrays stays in: /home/athos/pd/mypatch And the sound files are in /home/athos/pd/samples Openpanel will output: /home/athos/pd/samples/sound.wav Using the gridflow objects: [bang( | [gf/canvas_filename 0] | [gf/find_file 0] I get: /home/athos/pd/mypatch/mypatch.pd (using [getdir] i can directly obtain: /home/athos/pd/mypatch) And i will try to get: .. /samples/sound.wav I guess starting with [s2l] and some list comparing objects. Am I on the right path? :) athos PS: i tried opening the patch doing cd /home/athos/pd/mypatch pdextended mypatch.pd and i still get an absolute path from [gf/find_file 0] ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Am I alone?
On Wed, 2 Feb 2011, J. Simon van der Walt wrote: ‘There is no such thing as music. Music is not a thing at all but an activity, something that people do.’ Christopher Small (1998) ‘Musicking: The Meanings of Performing and Listening’ An activity is a kind of thing. It's an ontological issue. ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Am I alone?
There must be some explanatory context missing from that quote because as it is, it looks like a flip play on words: There is no such thing as the Chicken Dance. The Chicken Dance is not a thing at all but an activity, something people do. -Jonathan ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Am I alone?
I think music is globaly a raisonnance buisness. Not something material, like an instrument itself even if it is also a physical phenomena , because we can hear it through the air. And it is also a communication system where several poeple can be involved in. You can remember a music like a physical object and transform it later, you can also play something with the same main global idea at the background, (what you want to communicate), in a sightly different ways , like it is never played the same way at each time you play it ,while keeping essentially the same idea and building rules considering those rules are really containing the message you want to send on the network of poeple involved in this action. (that includes musicians and listeners) Following some rules it can touch your soul. mmm does it make any sens? :) , I was just thinking about the enormous north indian music system of ragas , that partially defines music in that kind of way.(folowing what I actually understand of this) And I am thinking often that perhaps it would be possible to make some interesting patches relative to that, without having an exact clear idea myself about what I would really like to get yet. (PS: I didn't want to annoy any one with my 18:50 PM tough , at least it was not my goal :) On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 3:17 PM, Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca wrote: On Wed, 2 Feb 2011, J. Simon van der Walt wrote: ‘There is no such thing as music. Music is not a thing at all but an activity, something that people do.’ Christopher Small (1998) ‘Musicking: The Meanings of Performing and Listening’ An activity is a kind of thing. It's an ontological issue. ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Am I alone?
--- On Wed, 2/2/11, patko colet.patr...@free.fr wrote: From: patko colet.patr...@free.fr Subject: Re: [PD] Am I alone? To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Cc: pd-list pd-list@iem.at Date: Wednesday, February 2, 2011, 12:37 PM Music is something we can have permenantly in the mind, and this is actually hidden from anyone point of view, no one would be actually ridiculous by generating music with brain (Can you say that about chicken dance?). I chose the example of the Chicken Dance exactly because it is ridiculous, so I agree with you, but fail to see the relevance. Also-- what do you mean by point of view? If you mean a visualization of the activity, I suppose I could also say a dancer can imagine their own Chicken Dance in kinesthetic terms, quite separate from any sound or image. Tools have been developped to reproduce this music for sharing a projection around a consensus that is different following different social groups. We're just trying not to be alone. What do you mean when you say this music? If you play didjeridoo your brain will reproduce sounds of didjeridoo as well as melodies or any kind of language, where accurateness will depends of the the understanding of the mind that is trying to reproduce it. Listeners might need to be educated but I have some reasons to doubt about it, a baby for example would rather get comfortable with smooth, nice music that uses to follow the rules of intelligent structures rather than weird noises coming out from industrail machines or randomly tuned synthetisers (rather that things we are undergoing). At the other side, a too well educated listener might get bored when melodies always follow the same rules, like if we always take the same road, with same conditions, that's certainly why composers came to arrhythmia, dodecaphonism, serial and spectral music, for breaking the rules. But like in everything there is a need for an equilibrium. Breaking the rule for just breaking the rule have no interest if the rule have not been deployed along a musical piece, if the composer or the interpret don't navigate in and out of the rule, musicality can easyly loose it's interest to be listened. There is no interest to play out of tune if there is no tune at all. Also there is not idea *behind* music, music *is* the idea. It depends on how you define idea behind music. I believe matju means the process that led to music getting produced, or written, or whatever. In that case the idea is not the music. And anyway, anytime, music is the best. - Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com a écrit : Reasonable Kate: Have you ever heard of the Chicken Dance? Questionable Chris: There is no such thing as the Chicken Dance. The Chicken Dance is not a thing at all but an activity, something that people do. Sad irony: Chris ends up _not_ dancing that night. -Jonathan --- On Wed, 2/2/11, J. Simon van der Walt tedthetrum...@gmail.com wrote: From: J. Simon van der Walt tedthetrum...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [PD] Am I alone? To: pd-list@iem.at Date: Wednesday, February 2, 2011, 6:46 AM On 2 February 2011 03:13, Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com wrote: But we're not talking about the man, we're talking about the music. ‘There is no such thing as music. Music is not a thing at all but an activity, something that people do.’ Christopher Small (1998) ‘Musicking: The Meanings of Performing and Listening’ -- J. Simon van der Walt - Composer www.jsimonvanderwalt.com +44 (0) 7905 270 198 ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Patrice Colet ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] R: Re: saving relative paths in a textfile
On Wed, 2 Feb 2011, Athos Bacchiocchi wrote: If i didn't misunderstood, your hint is to get the patch's path and compare it with the sound file's path given by openpanel, to obtain a relative path. Well, I didn't have a complete idea of how to do it ; I only stated how I'd get started. And i will try to get: ../samples/sound.wav I guess starting with [s2l] and some list comparing objects. Am I on the right path? :) Yes, I think so. PS: i tried opening the patch doing cd /home/athos/pd/mypatch pdextended mypatch.pd and i still get an absolute path from [gf/find_file 0] I don't know why. Lucky you. ;) Actually, maybe I wrote something wrong. Now I find that the problem is specifically with : pd -send pd open find_file-help.pd gf and even worse : pd -send pd open gf/find_file-help.pd . One is not supposed to use a relative name as the $2 of pd open, but then, it doesn't get rejected either. ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] how can I clear [vd~]
On Tue, 1 Feb 2011, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: Did you add your patch to the tracker? No, but now I did : http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detailaid=3170987group_id=55736atid=478072 ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Maybe I'm pushing dynamic object creation too far
On 2011-02-02 01:00, Ed Kelly wrote: I get dropouts, regardless of the jack buffer size/buffers number. Is this because the dynamic creation of a new object interrupts the pd audio stream? If so, can this be alleviated - 1. is it a GUI problem (and will pd 0.43 fix it) and 2. if so, can pd -nogui sort it out? the problem most likely comes from the DSP graph being continuously rebuilt. the only things you can do for now is: - - try to reduce rebuilding of the DSP graph as much as possible. needeless to say that you shouldn't dynamically create objects that are not needed. more interesting is that e.g. creating 3 objects while audio is running, will re-caculate the DSP graph 3 times. even if this happens in 0 logical time. so i you know you are going to schedule several dynamically created objects at once, turn audio off before and turn it on again after you do the actual creation. Dammit! Only one at a time, but they are tables of perhaps 30 points. Then I copy data from the input buffer into the table. It has to be running with the audio, since the audio is being re-mixed in real time. Everything works fine if I'm using the onboard sound - e.g. OSS, but the problems only happen when I switch to jack. Of course the onboard sound would be OK if I was using only output, but the whole point is to live-sample the input. The mic input on my laptop is really crappy. - - try to get the DSP graph building into a separate thread. well, this involves pd~ or the like Dammit again - I'm using the second core of the machine for the live score, dynamic object creation in GEM - but I see the new version of Inscore supports PD, so all my work over the last 6 months has been for nothing. Pah! Ed fgmasdr IOhannes [1] btw, it's usually really easy to check things: e.g. running your patch with -nogui and see whether you get dropouts might take about the same time as (you) asking on this list, (me) answering on this list and (you) reading the answer - not counting the delay due to amil-servers and the like. anyhow. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk1JKCQACgkQkX2Xpv6ydvQzfQCgsvmL0cevgXGPbL1oZW4keMcu diwAoJaN6Pvheh261jAZwzr2CpJ78ypV =z/KF -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Maybe I'm pushing dynamic object creation too far
Ed, I don't know if anecdotal confirmation will help you here, or just make you more frustrated, but I've noticed that I get more dropouts using Jack as opposed to portaudio (OS X) for the exact same processor-load. This has caused me to switch back to portaudio. Does anybody have any idea why this might be? Phil Stone www.pkstonemusic.com On 2/2/11 3:25 PM, Ed Kelly wrote: On 2011-02-02 01:00, Ed Kelly wrote: I get dropouts, regardless of the jack buffer size/buffers number. Is this because the dynamic creation of a new object interrupts the pd audio stream? If so, can this be alleviated - 1. is it a GUI problem (and will pd 0.43 fix it) and 2. if so, can pd -nogui sort it out? the problem most likely comes from the DSP graph being continuously rebuilt. the only things you can do for now is: - - try to reduce rebuilding of the DSP graph as much as possible. needeless to say that you shouldn't dynamically create objects that are not needed. more interesting is that e.g. creating 3 objects while audio is running, will re-caculate the DSP graph 3 times. even if this happens in 0 logical time. so i you know you are going to schedule several dynamically created objects at once, turn audio off before and turn it on again after you do the actual creation. Dammit! Only one at a time, but they are tables of perhaps 30 points. Then I copy data from the input buffer into the table. It has to be running with the audio, since the audio is being re-mixed in real time. Everything works fine if I'm using the onboard sound - e.g. OSS, but the problems only happen when I switch to jack. Of course the onboard sound would be OK if I was using only output, but the whole point is to live-sample the input. The mic input on my laptop is really crappy. - - try to get the DSP graph building into a separate thread. well, this involves pd~ or the like Dammit again - I'm using the second core of the machine for the live score, dynamic object creation in GEM - but I see the new version of Inscore supports PD, so all my work over the last 6 months has been for nothing. Pah! Ed fgmasdr IOhannes [1] btw, it's usually really easy to check things: e.g. running your patch with -nogui and see whether you get dropouts might take about the same time as (you) asking on this list, (me) answering on this list and (you) reading the answer - not counting the delay due to amil-servers and the like. anyhow. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk1JKCQACgkQkX2Xpv6ydvQzfQCgsvmL0cevgXGPbL1oZW4keMcu diwAoJaN6Pvheh261jAZwzr2CpJ78ypV =z/KF -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] Are there alternative means of creating patches besides the graphical editor?
Hello there. I'm interested in using PD. However, as someone who spends a lot of time with code, I'm actually a little afraid of the learning curve involved with the graphical programming language! I'd be much more comfortable creating my patches using, for example, a Python tool. Does such a programmatic PD patch generation tool exist? I can't imagine I'm the first person who's wanted such a thing. thanks, -Morgan -- Web: http://www.morganpackard.com Music/Art: Latest album: Moment Again Elsewherehttp://www.anticipaterecordings.com/releases/ANT_011/index.php iOS app Thicket http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/thicket/id364824621?mt=8available on iTunes store . ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
