Re: [PD] problem with pd-extended 0.41.4
Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: On Sep 14, 2009, at 8:09 AM, ydego...@gmail.com wrote: ola, precisely, there are _too_ many discussions on this topic, and i don't know the actual state of it... subsidiary question : do i neeed pd-extended ( from which version on ? ) to use namespaces and inspect the mapping library ? Probably not, but I use Pd-extended... gosh, what an answer so we're definitely in the blur of what are the differences between pd + externals and pd-extended. my problem now is that idon't know what to recommend to people in workshops ... i don't know what's there ( and don't have time to read all the discussion about pd-extended, sorry ) sevy ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] problem with pd-extended 0.41.4
On Sep 15, 2009, at 8:24 AM, ydego...@gmail.com wrote: Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: On Sep 14, 2009, at 8:09 AM, ydego...@gmail.com wrote: ola, precisely, there are _too_ many discussions on this topic, and i don't know the actual state of it... subsidiary question : do i neeed pd-extended ( from which version on ? ) to use namespaces and inspect the mapping library ? Probably not, but I use Pd-extended... gosh, what an answer so we're definitely in the blur of what are the differences between pd + externals and pd-extended. my problem now is that idon't know what to recommend to people in workshops ... i don't know what's there ( and don't have time to read all the discussion about pd-extended, sorry ) Oops, sorry, the 'not' was NOT supposed to be there. So what I meant to say is: You probably can do that stuff in other/custom distros, but I don't really know since I use Pd-extended. .hc kill your television ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] problem with pd-extended 0.41.4
ola, precisely, there are _too_ many discussions on this topic, and i don't know the actual state of it... subsidiary question : do i neeed pd-extended ( from which version on ? ) to use namespaces and inspect the mapping library ? will pd-extended crush my dev version living in /usr/local/pd ? saludos, sevy Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: There is lots of discussion in the archives on these topics. Here's a summary: - building as one-class-per-file gives us some namespace functionality to deal with nameclashes - pd-extended aims to use a single format for all libraries - the nightly build of Pd-vanilla + externals uses vanilla as the 'pd' instead of 'pd-extended. .hc On Sep 13, 2009, at 9:53 AM, ydego...@gmail.com wrote: very good subject . in fact, i would add : and what are the differences between a pd vanilla + externals and pd-extended ? it's not listed ni trced anywhere? and which libs became objects, or objects became libs? Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote: Yup, we are aware. Originally that stuff was handled by the hexloader for special characters, which had serious bugs. I probably missed something important. What happened to the hexloader? Second that. I would love to hear more about the hexloader. Is this a part of the regular distribution or only pd-extended? Also, why is zexy not built as a lib rather than being a collection of files? Does it have lower memory footprint this way? It seems a simple solution would be to have zexy as a lib (at least on Linux). Finally, are there any other libs that have similar issues? Ico ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] problem with pd-extended 0.41.4
On Sep 14, 2009, at 8:09 AM, ydego...@gmail.com wrote: ola, precisely, there are _too_ many discussions on this topic, and i don't know the actual state of it... subsidiary question : do i neeed pd-extended ( from which version on ? ) to use namespaces and inspect the mapping library ? Probably not, but I use Pd-extended... will pd-extended crush my dev version living in /usr/local/pd ? The pd-extended.debs now install into /usr like proper .debs .hc saludos, sevy Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: There is lots of discussion in the archives on these topics. Here's a summary: - building as one-class-per-file gives us some namespace functionality to deal with nameclashes - pd-extended aims to use a single format for all libraries - the nightly build of Pd-vanilla + externals uses vanilla as the 'pd' instead of 'pd-extended. .hc On Sep 13, 2009, at 9:53 AM, ydego...@gmail.com wrote: very good subject . in fact, i would add : and what are the differences between a pd vanilla + externals and pd-extended ? it's not listed ni trced anywhere? and which libs became objects, or objects became libs? Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote: Yup, we are aware. Originally that stuff was handled by the hexloader for special characters, which had serious bugs. I probably missed something important. What happened to the hexloader? Second that. I would love to hear more about the hexloader. Is this a part of the regular distribution or only pd-extended? Also, why is zexy not built as a lib rather than being a collection of files? Does it have lower memory footprint this way? It seems a simple solution would be to have zexy as a lib (at least on Linux). Finally, are there any other libs that have similar issues? Ico ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. kill your television ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] problem with pd-extended 0.41.4
Yup, we are aware. Originally that stuff was handled by the hexloader for special characters, which had serious bugs. I probably missed something important. What happened to the hexloader? Second that. I would love to hear more about the hexloader. Is this a part of the regular distribution or only pd-extended? Also, why is zexy not built as a lib rather than being a collection of files? Does it have lower memory footprint this way? It seems a simple solution would be to have zexy as a lib (at least on Linux). Finally, are there any other libs that have similar issues? Ico ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] problem with pd-extended 0.41.4
very good subject . in fact, i would add : and what are the differences between a pd vanilla + externals and pd-extended ? it's not listed ni trced anywhere? and which libs became objects, or objects became libs? Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote: Yup, we are aware. Originally that stuff was handled by the hexloader for special characters, which had serious bugs. I probably missed something important. What happened to the hexloader? Second that. I would love to hear more about the hexloader. Is this a part of the regular distribution or only pd-extended? Also, why is zexy not built as a lib rather than being a collection of files? Does it have lower memory footprint this way? It seems a simple solution would be to have zexy as a lib (at least on Linux). Finally, are there any other libs that have similar issues? Ico ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] problem with pd-extended 0.41.4
There is lots of discussion in the archives on these topics. Here's a summary: - building as one-class-per-file gives us some namespace functionality to deal with nameclashes - pd-extended aims to use a single format for all libraries - the nightly build of Pd-vanilla + externals uses vanilla as the 'pd' instead of 'pd-extended. .hc On Sep 13, 2009, at 9:53 AM, ydego...@gmail.com wrote: very good subject . in fact, i would add : and what are the differences between a pd vanilla + externals and pd-extended ? it's not listed ni trced anywhere? and which libs became objects, or objects became libs? Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote: Yup, we are aware. Originally that stuff was handled by the hexloader for special characters, which had serious bugs. I probably missed something important. What happened to the hexloader? Second that. I would love to hear more about the hexloader. Is this a part of the regular distribution or only pd-extended? Also, why is zexy not built as a lib rather than being a collection of files? Does it have lower memory footprint this way? It seems a simple solution would be to have zexy as a lib (at least on Linux). Finally, are there any other libs that have similar issues? Ico ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] problem with pd-extended 0.41.4
On Sat, 12 Sep 2009, Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote: Second that. I would love to hear more about the hexloader. Is this a part of the regular distribution or only pd-extended? Also, why is zexy not built as a lib rather than being a collection of files? Does it have lower memory footprint this way? it's higher in several ways. Each additional dlopen() takes one filehandle and each filehandle probably takes a lot more RAM than the machine code of the average zexy class. Given dlopen() uses mmap() which loads the *.pd_linux file content on-demand (in 4k blocks), one big *.pd_linux file is more memory-efficient than one-class-per-file, even when using a low number of different classes. On top of that, if your external takes 1k, it's padded to 4k, and if it takes 4.001k, it's padded to 8k, etc. however, if you loaded all of pd-extended as big libs, it would have a greater virtual-memory-size than one-class-per-file, but that doesn't have any advantage in practice. _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard, Montréal, Québec. téléphone: +1.514.383.3801___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] problem with pd-extended 0.41.4
Yup, we are aware. Originally that stuff was handled by the hexloader for special characters, which had serious bugs. I think there are some workarounds on the list, there was a fair amount of discussion and bug reports. I never use those so I don't know much about it. .hc On Sep 11, 2009, at 3:03 PM, Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote: Hans (and others), Not sure if you were aware of this but it appears that in 0.41.4 zexy's ~ ~ ||~ are all messed up. Namely, their names have been replaced by hex values of the ascii characters: 0x3c0x7efor ~ 0x3e0x7efor ~ 0x7c0x7c0x7efor ||~ Any ideas on how to fix this? Is this a compile-time problem or incompatibility of zexy with latest versions of Pd? Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A. Composition, Music Technology Director, DISIS Interactive Sound Intermedia Studio Assistant Co-Director, CCTAD CHCI, CS, and Art (by courtesy) Virginia Tech Dept. of Music - 0240 Blacksburg, VA 24061 (540) 231-6139 (540) 231-5034 (fax) i...@vt.edu http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/bukvic/ http://at.or.at/hans/ ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] problem with pd-extended 0.41.4
On Sat, 12 Sep 2009, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: Yup, we are aware. Originally that stuff was handled by the hexloader for special characters, which had serious bugs. I probably missed something important. What happened to the hexloader? _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard, Montréal, Québec. téléphone: +1.514.383.3801___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] problem with pd-extended 0.41.4
Hans (and others), Not sure if you were aware of this but it appears that in 0.41.4 zexy's ~ ~ ||~ are all messed up. Namely, their names have been replaced by hex values of the ascii characters: 0x3c0x7efor ~ 0x3e0x7efor ~ 0x7c0x7c0x7efor ||~ Any ideas on how to fix this? Is this a compile-time problem or incompatibility of zexy with latest versions of Pd? Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A. Composition, Music Technology Director, DISIS Interactive Sound Intermedia Studio Assistant Co-Director, CCTAD CHCI, CS, and Art (by courtesy) Virginia Tech Dept. of Music - 0240 Blacksburg, VA 24061 (540) 231-6139 (540) 231-5034 (fax) i...@vt.edu http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/bukvic/ ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] problem with pd-extended 0.41.4
In addition, it appears there are other objects that are messed up: 0x2e (scalar multiplication) Reports: load_object: Symbol 0x2e_setup not found (fails to load) 0x260x260x7e (~) This one loads but still reports: load_object: Symbol 0x260x260x7e_setup not found The ~, ~, and ||~ behave the same as ~ (they load and work but report an error). I am currently recompiling zexy from pd-extended repository--will keep you posted. Any ideas? Ico ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] problem with pd-extended 0.41.4
It appears when compiling zexy from pd-extended svn source (0.41.4) the resulting zexy.pd_linux fixes problems that are apparent when zexy is compiled into separate objects (as is the case in /usr/lib/pd/extra/zexy/ folder that is a part of the pd-extended linux package). Ico ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
