Re: [PD] Nice distortion
i really liked the sound of modcan vcdo, a 2-op FM in modular format: http://modcan.com/modhtml/VCDOA.html http://members.cox.net/ebrombaugh1/synth/vcdo/index.html on the modcan page: *Phase locking the modulator with the carrier produces beat-free timbres that retain spectral relationships over the entire frequency range.* ** how can we do something similar with pd? or maybe i didnt find a good example on that... thx in advance igor On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 9:50 AM, Frank Barknecht f...@footils.org wrote: Hallo, hard off hat gesagt: // hard off wrote: most of the stuff that operator synth does looks fairly straight-forward, shouldn't be too hard to put together a basic pd clone. I had a quick look at the Live manual, where I found, that Operator is just a 4-op FM synth with some additional tweaks. A simple 4-op FM is on my January TODO list for the RjDj library anyway. In general FM is easy, but the more operators you have, the more you want to use [mtx_mul~] from Iemmatrix, but RjDj only has vanilla objects. challenging bits will be the square and saw waves with variable numbers of partials, but i think that will probably just be a case of [tabosc4~] and making some tables with sinesum values. Or some summation formulas, but tabosc4~ is easier. then that knob to alter the amount of aliasing, it could be using upsampling and then lowpass filtering like the nord synths do, or like the 'classic synth' example in pd's audio documentation. but that approach quickly eats up cpuor else it could be using an adjustable bandlimiter, something like the [blosc~ comparator] external, but with adjustability. actually, this function is the hardest one for me to think of a solution for. Yep, aliasing in FM always is tricky. It will be ignored for RjDj. ;( the filters shouldn't be TOO hard, although to get a good lowpass, notch, bandpass and highpass it might be best to dig through pd-extended's externals. for lowpass i usually use [resofilt~] bandpass vanilla's [vcf~] is fine, although franks new resonz~ / resonr~ filters look super promising. for highpass, i prefer [svf~ high]. not sure about the notch filter. I'm a bit proud of resonz~ and resonr~: In the end they look very simple, the hard part was digging J.O. Smith's Filter book. ;) I'll also do some version with signal inlets later. If anyone knows which transfer function would make a good 2 pole resonant lowpass filter (like lp2~ in Iemlib) I'd be super thankful. Ciao -- Frank Barknecht ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Nice distortion
Yes, Operator is a 4-op FM synth, with added bonuses of a variety of
different bandlimited saw and square waveforms as well as bitrate-reduced
sines, noise, and triangle waves.
The genius is in the interface. I've played with a lot of FM synths and
Operator is so quick and dirty to dive into that I'm hard pressed to use
anything else. Plus the envelope generators are very tactile and fun to play
with. I did try to make a Pd clone of it a few years ago but ended up
purchasing the license instead (worth it).
Unfortunately it would most likely be difficult to recreate the fluidity of
the interface in Pd, since it is coded and compiled in C++ and has very
efficient GUI rendering.
~Kyle
On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 6:50 AM, Frank Barknecht f...@footils.org wrote:
Hallo,
hard off hat gesagt: // hard off wrote:
most of the stuff that operator synth does looks fairly straight-forward,
shouldn't be too hard to put together a basic pd clone.
I had a quick look at the Live manual, where I found, that Operator is
just a 4-op FM synth with some additional tweaks. A simple 4-op FM is on
my January TODO list for the RjDj library anyway. In general FM is
easy, but the more operators you have, the more you want to use
[mtx_mul~] from Iemmatrix, but RjDj only has vanilla objects.
challenging bits will be the square and saw waves with variable numbers
of
partials, but i think that will probably just be a case of [tabosc4~] and
making some tables with sinesum values.
Or some summation formulas, but tabosc4~ is easier.
then that knob to alter the amount of aliasing, it could be using
upsampling
and then lowpass filtering like the nord synths do, or like the 'classic
synth' example in pd's audio documentation. but that approach quickly
eats
up cpuor else it could be using an adjustable bandlimiter, something
like the [blosc~ comparator] external, but with adjustability. actually,
this function is the hardest one for me to think of a solution for.
Yep, aliasing in FM always is tricky. It will be ignored for RjDj. ;(
the filters shouldn't be TOO hard, although to get a good lowpass, notch,
bandpass and highpass it might be best to dig through pd-extended's
externals. for lowpass i usually use [resofilt~] bandpass vanilla's
[vcf~]
is fine, although franks new resonz~ / resonr~ filters look super
promising. for highpass, i prefer [svf~ high]. not sure about the notch
filter.
I'm a bit proud of resonz~ and resonr~: In the end they look very
simple, the hard part was digging J.O. Smith's Filter book. ;) I'll also
do some version with signal inlets later.
If anyone knows which transfer function would make a good 2 pole resonant
lowpass filter (like lp2~ in Iemlib) I'd be super thankful.
Ciao
--
Frank Barknecht
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Re: [PD] Nice distortion
Hallo, hard off hat gesagt: // hard off wrote: most of the stuff that operator synth does looks fairly straight-forward, shouldn't be too hard to put together a basic pd clone. I had a quick look at the Live manual, where I found, that Operator is just a 4-op FM synth with some additional tweaks. A simple 4-op FM is on my January TODO list for the RjDj library anyway. In general FM is easy, but the more operators you have, the more you want to use [mtx_mul~] from Iemmatrix, but RjDj only has vanilla objects. challenging bits will be the square and saw waves with variable numbers of partials, but i think that will probably just be a case of [tabosc4~] and making some tables with sinesum values. Or some summation formulas, but tabosc4~ is easier. then that knob to alter the amount of aliasing, it could be using upsampling and then lowpass filtering like the nord synths do, or like the 'classic synth' example in pd's audio documentation. but that approach quickly eats up cpuor else it could be using an adjustable bandlimiter, something like the [blosc~ comparator] external, but with adjustability. actually, this function is the hardest one for me to think of a solution for. Yep, aliasing in FM always is tricky. It will be ignored for RjDj. ;( the filters shouldn't be TOO hard, although to get a good lowpass, notch, bandpass and highpass it might be best to dig through pd-extended's externals. for lowpass i usually use [resofilt~] bandpass vanilla's [vcf~] is fine, although franks new resonz~ / resonr~ filters look super promising. for highpass, i prefer [svf~ high]. not sure about the notch filter. I'm a bit proud of resonz~ and resonr~: In the end they look very simple, the hard part was digging J.O. Smith's Filter book. ;) I'll also do some version with signal inlets later. If anyone knows which transfer function would make a good 2 pole resonant lowpass filter (like lp2~ in Iemlib) I'd be super thankful. Ciao -- Frank Barknecht ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Nice distortion
Hallo, Phil Stone hat gesagt: // Phil Stone wrote: I've been having a blast with this effect -- really great, Frank! It doesn't seem too CPU-hungry, either, though that's just an impression not yet quantified. It should be dirtcheap, as it's just a lop filter, a multiplication and two elementary filters (rzero_rev and rpole) which are also just doing one multiplication and one addition each. One little thing...the meaning of wet/dry seems to be reversed; i.e. 0 gives full effect, 1 gives no effect. That's on purpose and the reason, why this parameter is called dry and not wet. dry=0 means 0 percent dry signal i.e. a fully wet signal. I think, effects should default to full wet in Pd as people often will scale the incomping and outgoing signal somewhere else instead of with the dry-wet slider. That slider is just a convenience for the rest of us. Ciao -- Frank ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Nice distortion
honestly i am surprised at how good this sounds. amazing and simple awesome patch. understand what you're saying about the wet/dry slider, but i also think it feels weird to slide in the 'wrong' direction. [loadbang] and [1( to full depth is still my preffered approach. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Nice distortion
Hallo, hard off hat gesagt: // hard off wrote: honestly i am surprised at how good this sounds. amazing and simple awesome patch. Yes, that's true. It's similar to the Erosion effect in Ableton Live, but with a delay length of one sample and the lowpass filtered input signal as modulator. But you can use other modulators as well, like the ones Erosion uses: sine waves or (filtered) noise etc. Or combine it with a tanh-saturation. Lots of possibilities. understand what you're saying about the wet/dry slider, but i also think it feels weird to slide in the 'wrong' direction. [loadbang] and [1( to full depth is still my preffered approach. I'd recommend to just ignore the dry slider completely then. ;) Ciao -- Frank ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Nice distortion
I'd recommend to just ignore the dry slider completely then. ;) nah, this is pd. i know the secret code to reverse it to the way i like :) will give it a go tomorrow with the various combinations of modulators. sounds fun. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Nice distortion
Hallo, Frank Barknecht hat gesagt: // Frank Barknecht wrote: Yes, that's true. It's similar to the Erosion effect in Ableton Live, but with a delay length of one sample and the lowpass filtered input signal as modulator. Ah, I checked again and that's not quite correct: Erosion modulates the delay *length*, not the feedback/feedforward coefficients like apdist~ does. Ciao -- Frank BarknechtDo You RjDj.me? _ __footils.org__ ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Nice distortion
Really awesome Frank!
I like how you've been touring the Ableton toolkit for Pd-inspiration. They
were pretty much prototyped in Max anyway, so it's definitely doable by keen
minds such as yours.
I can't wait for your version of Operator!!!
~Kyle
On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 9:07 AM, Frank Barknecht f...@footils.org wrote:
Hallo,
Frank Barknecht hat gesagt: // Frank Barknecht wrote:
Yes, that's true. It's similar to the Erosion effect in Ableton Live,
but with a delay length of one sample and the lowpass filtered input
signal as modulator.
Ah, I checked again and that's not quite correct: Erosion modulates
the delay *length*, not the feedback/feedforward coefficients like
apdist~ does.
Ciao
--
Frank BarknechtDo You RjDj.me? _ __footils.org__
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Re: [PD] Nice distortion
Hallo, Kyle Klipowicz hat gesagt: // Kyle Klipowicz wrote: Really awesome Frank! I like how you've been touring the Ableton toolkit for Pd-inspiration. They were pretty much prototyped in Max anyway, so it's definitely doable by keen minds such as yours. Well, I guess it's more that Ableton are touring the computer music literature, DAFx proceedings etc. for effect inspiration in a similar way as I do sometimes. ;) What does Operator do? Ciao -- Frank ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Nice distortion
most of the stuff that operator synth does looks fairly straight-forward, shouldn't be too hard to put together a basic pd clone. challenging bits will be the square and saw waves with variable numbers of partials, but i think that will probably just be a case of [tabosc4~] and making some tables with sinesum values. then that knob to alter the amount of aliasing, it could be using upsampling and then lowpass filtering like the nord synths do, or like the 'classic synth' example in pd's audio documentation. but that approach quickly eats up cpuor else it could be using an adjustable bandlimiter, something like the [blosc~ comparator] external, but with adjustability. actually, this function is the hardest one for me to think of a solution for. the fm and envelope stuff would be super simple. just the quantize thing woudl take a bit of fiddling, but can be done with totally vanilla pd objects. an audio rate lfo would be super simple (easier than control rate in pd) the filters shouldn't be TOO hard, although to get a good lowpass, notch, bandpass and highpass it might be best to dig through pd-extended's externals. for lowpass i usually use [resofilt~] bandpass vanilla's [vcf~] is fine, although franks new resonz~ / resonr~ filters look super promising. for highpass, i prefer [svf~ high]. not sure about the notch filter. there are also a lot of fine details that would be easy to implement, which shouldn't be overlooked...like the velocity to filter envelope mapping (sounded good) and that fm automation sync with quantize on/off. then that time knob, and some of the other squinty stuff in the bottom right hand corner. actually does look like quite an interesting project. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Nice distortion
Frank Barknecht wrote: Hallo, oops, I sent a version with a missing connectin to the rpole~ coefficient. Please use this one instead. Ciao ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list I've been having a blast with this effect -- really great, Frank! It doesn't seem too CPU-hungry, either, though that's just an impression not yet quantified. One little thing...the meaning of wet/dry seems to be reversed; i.e. 0 gives full effect, 1 gives no effect. Thanks for making this available. Phil Stone ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] Nice distortion
Hallo, as a late xmas present attached is a nice and cheap distortion based on an allpass filter. The idea comes from a DAFx paper by Jussi Pekonen titled Coefficient Modulated Allpass Filter as Distortion Effect. Sounds pretty cool if you play the demo samples from that paper's page at: http://www.acoustics.hut.fi/~jpekonen/Papers/dafx08/ Ciao -- Frank BarknechtDo You RjDj.me? _ __footils.org__ apdist.tgz Description: GNU Unix tar archive ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Nice distortion
Hallo, oops, I sent a version with a missing connectin to the rpole~ coefficient. Please use this one instead. Ciao -- Frank BarknechtDo You RjDj.me? _ __footils.org__ Frank Barknecht hat gesagt: // Frank Barknecht wrote: as a late xmas present attached is a nice and cheap distortion based on an allpass filter. The idea comes from a DAFx paper by Jussi Pekonen titled Coefficient Modulated Allpass Filter as Distortion Effect. Sounds pretty cool if you play the demo samples from that paper's page at: http://www.acoustics.hut.fi/~jpekonen/Papers/dafx08/ Ciao -- Frank BarknechtDo You RjDj.me? _ __footils.org__ apdist.tgz Description: GNU Unix tar archive ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Nice distortion
hi frank, true, really neat distortion. do i have your permission to add it to pdmtl abstractions? pat ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Nice distortion
Hallo, patrick hat gesagt: // patrick wrote: true, really neat distortion. do i have your permission to add it to pdmtl abstractions? Yes, no problem. As everything I post here unless otherwise noted it's as free as Pd (same license). Ciao -- Frank ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Nice distortion
cheers frank! ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
