Re: [PD] customizing the new Pd GUI, some examples
On Tue, 1 Sep 2009, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
First try throwing extra ints in the #X connect messages in a .pd file, and
see if that works. Then try getting those ints in Pd.
this is the signature for the connect messages:
g_editor.c:gensym("connect"), A_FLOAT, A_FLOAT, A_FLOAT, A_FLOAT,
A_NULL);
this means that $1,$2,$3,$4 have to be floats, and furthermore, $5 must
not exist.
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Re: [PD] customizing the new Pd GUI, some examples
yup, iemguts covers this, see the objects [propertybang] + [canvasargs]. Jonathan Wilkes wrote: > Hm, so would the new GUI magick also make it possible for the dialogue > menus to actually be Pd patches? I guess its not a lot of gain for the > work in terms of existing iem-gui objects, but it would be really useful > to be able to build a "Properties" menu for abstractions that can change > the arguments of the abstraction. > > Or can you already do this with iem-guts? > > -Jonathan > > --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: > > > From: Hans-Christoph Steiner > > Subject: Re: [PD] customizing the new Pd GUI, some examples > > To: "Jonathan Wilkes" > > Cc: "András Murányi" , pd-list@iem.at > > Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 4:10 PM > > > > Trippy. Even the xlets > > disappear! > > There are now a set of Tk tags that can be > > separately controlled, you could also make things turn > > different colors, or disappear (i.e. turn > > white). > > cords, inlet, outlet, text, label, obj, msg, > > atom > > Are segmented patch cords also a > > possibility now? > > > > Someone should try to write a segmented patch > > cord plugin, that would be a great test of the plugin idea > > for the new GUI. I'd be happy to help someone thru > > the code, and make any reasonable changes. I suspect > > it'll be hard to work around the fact that the .pd file > > format doesn't include a place to store the segmented > > patch cord data points, but I think it could easily be > > handled in a separate, parallel file. It could be like > > the .pd is the HTML and this other file is the > > CSS. > > .hc > > On Sep 1, 2009, at 12:45 AM, Jonathan Wilkes > > wrote: > > Trippy. Even the xlets > > disappear! > > Are segmented patch cords also a possibility now? > > > > -Jonathan > > > > --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Hans-Christoph Steiner > > wrote: > > > > From: Hans-Christoph Steiner > > Subject: Re: [PD] customizing the new Pd GUI, some > > examples > > To: "András Murányi" > > Cc: pd-list@iem.at > > Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 5:06 AM > > > > > > I just made a commit to make this possible. > > Check how "hide_cords.tcl" and > > "editmode_look.tcl" in pd-gui-rewrite. They > > are both in pd/startup/disabled, so you'll need to move > > them to pd/startup to make them load. They are both > > triggered by edit mode. > > > 1.png> > 2.png> > 3.png> > > .hc > > On Aug 28, 2009, at 3:48 PM, András Murányi > > wrote: > > I > > wish to hide connections... oh my! > > I would be happy with a single global option to hide'em > > in performance mode (ctrl-e). > > > > Does it make sense? > > > > -- > > Muranyi Andras > > ___ > > Pd-list@iem.at mailing list > > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > > > > > > > > > Using ReBirth is like trying to play an 808 with > > a long stick. -David Zicarelli > > > > > > -Inline Attachment Follows- > > > > ___ > > Pd-list@iem.at mailing list > > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://at.or.at/hans/ > > > > > > > > > ___ > Pd-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] customizing the new Pd GUI, some examples
Sounds marvelous! Unfortunately i'm having all kinds of problems here... it's Hardy amd64 but my main pd install (libraries etc) are 32bit. So they dont load plus there are some things not working: the Preferences dialog, and seemingly startup plugins. Andras On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 6:45 AM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: > Trippy. Even the xlets disappear! > Are segmented patch cords also a possibility now? > > -Jonathan > > --- On *Tue, 9/1/09, Hans-Christoph Steiner * wrote: > > > From: Hans-Christoph Steiner > Subject: Re: [PD] customizing the new Pd GUI, some examples > To: "András Murányi" > Cc: pd-list@iem.at > Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 5:06 AM > > > > I just made a commit to make this possible. Check how "hide_cords.tcl" and > "editmode_look.tcl" in pd-gui-rewrite. They are both in > pd/startup/disabled, so you'll need to move them to pd/startup to make them > load. They are both triggered by edit mode. > > > .hc > > On Aug 28, 2009, at 3:48 PM, András Murányi wrote: > > I wish to hide connections... oh my! > I would be happy with a single global option to hide'em in performance mode > (ctrl-e). > > Does it make sense? > > -- > Muranyi Andras > ___ > Pd-list@iem.at <http://mc/compose?to=pd-l...@iem.at> mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > > <><><>___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] customizing the new Pd GUI, some examples
Dialog menus aren't pd patches yet, lots of work needs to be done for that to happen. But you can to abstraction properties thing with iemguts, I hear. .hc On Sep 1, 2009, at 5:53 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: Hm, so would the new GUI magick also make it possible for the dialogue menus to actually be Pd patches? I guess its not a lot of gain for the work in terms of existing iem-gui objects, but it would be really useful to be able to build a "Properties" menu for abstractions that can change the arguments of the abstraction. Or can you already do this with iem-guts? -Jonathan --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: From: Hans-Christoph Steiner Subject: Re: [PD] customizing the new Pd GUI, some examples To: "Jonathan Wilkes" Cc: "András Murányi" , pd-list@iem.at Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 4:10 PM Trippy. Even the xlets disappear! There are now a set of Tk tags that can be separately controlled, you could also make things turn different colors, or disappear (i.e. turn white). cords, inlet, outlet, text, label, obj, msg, atom Are segmented patch cords also a possibility now? Someone should try to write a segmented patch cord plugin, that would be a great test of the plugin idea for the new GUI. I'd be happy to help someone thru the code, and make any reasonable changes. I suspect it'll be hard to work around the fact that the .pd file format doesn't include a place to store the segmented patch cord data points, but I think it could easily be handled in a separate, parallel file. It could be like the .pd is the HTML and this other file is the CSS. .hc On Sep 1, 2009, at 12:45 AM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: Trippy. Even the xlets disappear! Are segmented patch cords also a possibility now? -Jonathan --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: From: Hans-Christoph Steiner Subject: Re: [PD] customizing the new Pd GUI, some examples To: "András Murányi" Cc: pd-list@iem.at Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 5:06 AM I just made a commit to make this possible. Check how "hide_cords.tcl" and "editmode_look.tcl" in pd-gui-rewrite. They are both in pd/startup/disabled, so you'll need to move them to pd/startup to make them load. They are both triggered by edit mode. .hc On Aug 28, 2009, at 3:48 PM, András Murányi wrote: I wish to hide connections... oh my! I would be happy with a single global option to hide'em in performance mode (ctrl-e). Does it make sense? -- Muranyi Andras ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list Using ReBirth is like trying to play an 808 with a long stick.-David Zicarelli -Inline Attachment Follows- ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list http://at.or.at/hans/ News is what people want to keep hidden and everything else is publicity. - Bill Moyers ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] customizing the new Pd GUI, some examples
Hm, so would the new GUI magick also make it possible for the dialogue menus to actually be Pd patches? I guess its not a lot of gain for the work in terms of existing iem-gui objects, but it would be really useful to be able to build a "Properties" menu for abstractions that can change the arguments of the abstraction. Or can you already do this with iem-guts? -Jonathan --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: > From: Hans-Christoph Steiner > Subject: Re: [PD] customizing the new Pd GUI, some examples > To: "Jonathan Wilkes" > Cc: "András Murányi" , pd-list@iem.at > Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 4:10 PM > > Trippy. Even the xlets > disappear! > There are now a set of Tk tags that can be > separately controlled, you could also make things turn > different colors, or disappear (i.e. turn > white). > cords, inlet, outlet, text, label, obj, msg, > atom > Are segmented patch cords also a > possibility now? > > Someone should try to write a segmented patch > cord plugin, that would be a great test of the plugin idea > for the new GUI. I'd be happy to help someone thru > the code, and make any reasonable changes. I suspect > it'll be hard to work around the fact that the .pd file > format doesn't include a place to store the segmented > patch cord data points, but I think it could easily be > handled in a separate, parallel file. It could be like > the .pd is the HTML and this other file is the > CSS. > .hc > On Sep 1, 2009, at 12:45 AM, Jonathan Wilkes > wrote: > Trippy. Even the xlets > disappear! > Are segmented patch cords also a possibility now? > > -Jonathan > > --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Hans-Christoph Steiner > wrote: > > From: Hans-Christoph Steiner > Subject: Re: [PD] customizing the new Pd GUI, some > examples > To: "András Murányi" > Cc: pd-list@iem.at > Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 5:06 AM > > > I just made a commit to make this possible. > Check how "hide_cords.tcl" and > "editmode_look.tcl" in pd-gui-rewrite. They > are both in pd/startup/disabled, so you'll need to move > them to pd/startup to make them load. They are both > triggered by edit mode. > 1.png> 2.png> 3.png> > .hc > On Aug 28, 2009, at 3:48 PM, András Murányi > wrote: > I > wish to hide connections... oh my! > I would be happy with a single global option to hide'em > in performance mode (ctrl-e). > > Does it make sense? > > -- > Muranyi Andras > ___ > Pd-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > > > > Using ReBirth is like trying to play an 808 with > a long stick. -David Zicarelli > > > -Inline Attachment Follows- > > ___ > Pd-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > > > > > > > > http://at.or.at/hans/ > > ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] customizing the new Pd GUI, some examples
On Sep 1, 2009, at 10:48 AM, dmotd wrote:
Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Someone should try to write a segmented patch cord plugin, that
would be
a great test of the plugin idea for the new GUI. I'd be happy to
help
someone thru the code, and make any reasonable changes. I suspect
it'll
be hard to work around the fact that the .pd file format doesn't
include
a place to store the segmented patch cord data points, but I think it
could easily be handled in a separate, parallel file. It could be
like
the .pd is the HTML and this other file is the CSS.
i have wondered on few occasions if segmented data
could be stored after the 'connect' message, is
there something hardcoded that only accept a
connect selector with a list with 4 floats? would
adding more floats break the file format?
You could try it for yourself pretty easily. Here's an easy way to
find here the "#X connect" message is implemented:
h...@palatschinken:src > grep '"connect"' *.c
g_editor.c:gensym("#X"), gensym("connect"),
g_editor.c:"connect");
g_editor.c:gensym("#X"), gensym("connect"),
g_editor.c:binbuf_addv(b, "ss;", gensym("#X"),
gensym("connect"),
g_editor.c:gensym("connect"), A_FLOAT, A_FLOAT, A_FLOAT,
A_FLOAT, A_NULL);
g_readwrite.c:binbuf_addv(b, "ss;", gensym("#X"),
gensym("connect"),
m_binbuf.c:else if (!strcmp(second, "connect")||
m_binbuf.c:gensym("#X"), gensym("connect"),
m_binbuf.c:else if (!strcmp(second, "connect"))
m_binbuf.c:gensym("#P"), gensym("connect"),
u_pdsend.c:sockerror("connect");
u_pdsend.c:sockerror("connect");
x_net.c:gensym("connect"), A_SYMBOL, A_FLOAT, 0);
Basically, these two lines are saying that the "connect" message is
expected to be in 'ss' format. s = symbol, i = integer. So
basically, two symbols (#X connect) and four integers (0 1 0 0)
g_editor.c:binbuf_addv(b, "ss;", gensym("#X"),
gensym("connect"),
g_readwrite.c:binbuf_addv(b, "ss;", gensym("#X"),
gensym("connect"),
First try throwing extra ints in the #X connect messages in a .pd
file, and see if that works. Then try getting those ints in Pd.
.hc
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Re: [PD] customizing the new Pd GUI, some examples
Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: > Someone should try to write a segmented patch cord plugin, that would be > a great test of the plugin idea for the new GUI. I'd be happy to help > someone thru the code, and make any reasonable changes. I suspect it'll > be hard to work around the fact that the .pd file format doesn't include > a place to store the segmented patch cord data points, but I think it > could easily be handled in a separate, parallel file. It could be like > the .pd is the HTML and this other file is the CSS. i have wondered on few occasions if segmented data could be stored after the 'connect' message, is there something hardcoded that only accept a connect selector with a list with 4 floats? would adding more floats break the file format? ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] customizing the new Pd GUI, some examples
On Sep 1, 2009, at 1:44 AM, Ichabod wrote: 2009/8/31 Hans-Christoph Steiner ... [screenshots] Is the font being changed, or is it just one Pd already uses on a different system than mine? On Mac OS X, the default font is now Monaco, since its included with the OS, and is the standard default font for fixed width things like code editors. On GNU/Linux and Windows, its still Courier, though it should be a bit easier to use different fonts now. .hc All mankind is of one author, and is one volume; when one man dies, one chapter is not torn out of the book, but translated into a better language; and every chapter must be so translated -John Donne ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] customizing the new Pd GUI, some examples
Trippy. Even the xlets disappear! There are now a set of Tk tags that can be separately controlled, you could also make things turn different colors, or disappear (i.e. turn white). cords, inlet, outlet, text, label, obj, msg, atom Are segmented patch cords also a possibility now? Someone should try to write a segmented patch cord plugin, that would be a great test of the plugin idea for the new GUI. I'd be happy to help someone thru the code, and make any reasonable changes. I suspect it'll be hard to work around the fact that the .pd file format doesn't include a place to store the segmented patch cord data points, but I think it could easily be handled in a separate, parallel file. It could be like the .pd is the HTML and this other file is the CSS. .hc On Sep 1, 2009, at 12:45 AM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: Trippy. Even the xlets disappear! Are segmented patch cords also a possibility now? -Jonathan --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: From: Hans-Christoph Steiner Subject: Re: [PD] customizing the new Pd GUI, some examples To: "András Murányi" Cc: pd-list@iem.at Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 5:06 AM I just made a commit to make this possible. Check how "hide_cords.tcl" and "editmode_look.tcl" in pd-gui-rewrite. They are both in pd/startup/disabled, so you'll need to move them to pd/ startup to make them load. They are both triggered by edit mode. .hc On Aug 28, 2009, at 3:48 PM, András Murányi wrote: I wish to hide connections... oh my! I would be happy with a single global option to hide'em in performance mode (ctrl-e). Does it make sense? -- Muranyi Andras ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list Using ReBirth is like trying to play an 808 with a long stick.- David Zicarelli -Inline Attachment Follows- ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list http://at.or.at/hans/ ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] customizing the new Pd GUI, some examples
2009/8/31 Hans-Christoph Steiner > ... > [screenshots] > Is the font being changed, or is it just one Pd already uses on a different system than mine? --Stefán ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] customizing the new Pd GUI, some examples
Trippy. Even the xlets disappear!Are segmented patch cords also a possibility now?-Jonathan--- On Tue, 9/1/09, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:From: Hans-Christoph Steiner Subject: Re: [PD] customizing the new Pd GUI, some examplesTo: "András Murányi" Cc: pd-list@iem.atDate: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 5:06 AMI just made a commit to make this possible. Check how "hide_cords.tcl" and "editmode_look.tcl" in pd-gui-rewrite. They are both in pd/startup/disabled, so you'll need to move them to pd/startup to make them load. They are both triggered by edit mode..hcOn Aug 28, 2009, at 3:48 PM, András Murányi wrote:I wish to hide connections... oh my!I would be happy with a single global option to hide'em in performance mode (ctrl-e).Does it make sense?-- Muranyi Andras ___Pd-list@iem.at mailing listUNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list Using ReBirth is like trying to play an 808 with a long stick. -David Zicarelli -Inline Attachment Follows-___Pd-list@iem.at mailing listUNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] customizing the new Pd GUI, some examples
I just made a commit to make this possible. Check how "hide_cords.tcl" and "editmode_look.tcl" in pd-gui-rewrite. They are both in pd/startup/disabled, so you'll need to move them to pd/startup to make them load. They are both triggered by edit mode..hcOn Aug 28, 2009, at 3:48 PM, András Murányi wrote:I wish to hide connections... oh my!I would be happy with a single global option to hide'em in performance mode (ctrl-e).Does it make sense?-- Muranyi Andras ___Pd-list@iem.at mailing listUNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list Using ReBirth is like trying to play an 808 with a long stick. -David Zicarelli ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] customizing the new Pd GUI, some examples
I wish to hide connections... oh my! I would be happy with a single global option to hide'em in performance mode (ctrl-e). Does it make sense? -- Muranyi Andras ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] customizing the new Pd GUI, some examples
Do it yourself with dynamic patching, the below file suggests the "print" menu item can be triggered using the SoCal'ed internal messages: https://pure-data.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/pure-data/trunk/doc/additional/pd-msg/1.msg_and_patch/2.menu.pd i found you have to give the savepath and filename as second item in the message which i think is coool: [print /tmp/pd.ps[ does not look like the graphical patcher window, but hey, ps output! You might wanna look at a nice way to do figures in pd/tcltk Miller used to make the drawings in http://crca.ucsd.edu/~msp/techniques.htm regards, Peter Jeff Sandys wrote: Feature request for new GUI It would be nice to graphically render a patch and save it as a png or other graphic object without starting PD audio or GUI. This would be useful for documentation and web graphics. Could this be done as a customization that Hans mentioned or would it need to be in the main body GUI code? $ pd_render patch.pd patch.png Thanks, Jeff Sandys Top Healthcare Degrees Boost your health care career today with an online degree. Free info! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/c?cp=b4u1WseE71QP-kFSb99uEAAAJz1WzGy7UZn3AOaBKMmb5n6RAAQFAE5iED4AAGQiAA== ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] customizing the new Pd GUI, some examples
Hey Jeff, What would this do that a screenshot wouldn't give you? I guess you are thinking automation? You can already 'Print' a patch to a .ps postscript document, it comes out kind of weird though. It would probably be possible as a plugin, but I haven't honestly looked. Triggering the 'print' function programmatically wouldn't be hard. Basically, now is the time to try ideas for plugins, because we can still easily change the GUI code to make it easier to do things that people want to do. .hc On Aug 27, 2009, at 8:42 PM, Jeff Sandys wrote: Feature request for new GUI It would be nice to graphically render a patch and save it as a png or other graphic object without starting PD audio or GUI. This would be useful for documentation and web graphics. Could this be done as a customization that Hans mentioned or would it need to be in the main body GUI code? $ pd_render patch.pd patch.png Thanks, Jeff Sandys Top Healthcare Degrees Boost your health care career today with an online degree. Free info! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/c?cp=b4u1WseE71QP-kFSb99uEAAAJz1WzGy7UZn3AOaBKMmb5n6RAAQFAE5iED4AAGQiAA== ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list As we enjoy great advantages from inventions of others, we should be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours; and this we should do freely and generously. - Benjamin Franklin ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] customizing the new Pd GUI, some examples
Feature request for new GUI It would be nice to graphically render a patch and save it as a png or other graphic object without starting PD audio or GUI. This would be useful for documentation and web graphics. Could this be done as a customization that Hans mentioned or would it need to be in the main body GUI code? $ pd_render patch.pd patch.png Thanks, Jeff Sandys Top Healthcare Degrees Boost your health care career today with an online degree. Free info! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/c?cp=b4u1WseE71QP-kFSb99uEAAAJz1WzGy7UZn3AOaBKMmb5n6RAAQFAE5iED4AAGQiAA== ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] customizing the new Pd GUI, some examples
One of the most important features in the new GUI, IMHO, is the ease of making little Tcl scriptlets to extend the GUI. mescalinum had the idea for making a object browser on the popup menu: http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/89643/pdcreateobjmenu.mpg So I just took that as an example and recoded the popup menu stuff so it should be a lot easier to customize. I made addtopopup.tcl, insertintopopup.tcl, cloneintopopup.tcl as examples of what's possible with a few lines of code. You can see the code here, and example images below: http://pure-data.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/pure-data/branches/pd-devel/0.41.4/startup <><> .hc http://at.or.at/hans/ ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
