Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43
On Wed, 29 Dec 2010, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: That's probably because you've never gotten it. Clicking on the graph that contains the array opens up 'canvas-help.pd'. But you can open a help patch named 'array-help.pd' when you: a) right-click on the Put menu array and choose Open, b) mouse-over an array element until the arrow cursor changes directions, c) right-click and choose help. Ah, yeah, so I misunderstood the whole thing. Then you will receive enlightenment from Pd's generous help docs: sorry, couldn't find help patch for array.pd Yeah, that's quite weird. And frankly, for some errors like this, I'd rather have a dialogue box open just for that, then having to look at the console. for those few boring users who choose not to click random spots within a patch until something helpful and relevant happens. heh ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43
On Tue, 14 Dec 2010, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: Yeah, so currently I have links inside canvas-help.pd to table-help.pd, pd-help.pd, graph-help.pd, and a special note about Put menu arrays with a link to array-help.pd. array-help.pd is necessary to have there because triggering the help patch for the Put menu array is so obscure (I wonder if anyone here even knows what to click to get it.) I don't know how you can possibly not get it. Do you expect that you can get it by right-clicking the array's label ? Because, it doesn't work for any other label (IEMGUI...), so, why would it work for Array's label ? That's true, but just because it's possible to do that doesn't mean that [inlet] and [outlet] are relevant enough to show in the help patch for [table], any more than showing [list] in the help patch for [metro]. Also, it doesn't work the other way around-- [tabread], [tabwrite], etc. are not relevant to [pd]. Actually, when you have a [table], you don't have one object, you have two of them. When you have [table foo], receive-symbol pd-foo sends to a canvas, whereas receive-symbol foo sends to the internal t_array object, which has all of the array-specific methods. This has to be made clear, because it's not like an inheritance-like pattern. An inheritance-like pattern (or interface pattern) would be, for example, to have one single help-patch for most of the common methods in iemguis, those that have exactly the same behaviour, to emphasise that they are one single family (even though inheritance in pd is mostly in our imagination). It's a matter of documenting things in a non-repetitive, synthetic manner, and with a mindset that encourages consistency. When you have one class that seemingly would include one complete other helpfile's content but not the other way around, that would usually be an inheritance pattern, but it's not here, because instead, it's mostly that a canvas has a t_array tacked onto it, vs not. It can't be called delegation pattern either, because in a delegation pattern, you have two objects, of which you only send to one, which will forward the message to the other one whenever appropriate. This is not the case here, because you can send to two different receive-symbols, and you have to send to the correct one. I could have said a lot less, but I just thought I'd give you some more doc ideas. ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43
On 14 Dec 2010, at 04:58, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: On Mon, 2010-12-13 at 20:25 -0800, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: --- On Tue, 12/14/10, Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca wrote: From: Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca Subject: Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43 To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Cc: PD List pd-list@iem.at, Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at Date: Tuesday, December 14, 2010, 3:04 AM On Mon, 13 Dec 2010, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: As far as improving documentation, I'd say every object in Pd-ext should be documented clearly in a help patch that outlines: I'd say every class in Pd-ext should be documented clearly in a help patch that outlines: You're right. I'm an object-o-phile. But do you find Related Objects troubling-- should it be Related Classes? Pd doesn't really have classes like OOP (i.e. no inheritance), so I think it can be confusing to use that term. People have been saying objects for a long time with Pd and Max. The concept of classes doesn't have anything to do with inheritance, it's about separating the abstract representation of something (class), and a concrete instance of that thing (object). The terminology is used liberally in the Pd html manual http://www.crca.ucsd.edu/~msp/Pd_documentation/x2.htm and I think it's perfectly clear and not confusing at all. In fact it's more confusing to avoid the term class, since this then makes Pd inconsistent with other languages. Jamie ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43
On 14 Dec 2010, at 08:12, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: On 2010-12-14 05:58, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: Pd doesn't really have classes like OOP (i.e. no inheritance), so I as a matter of fact Pd implements a simple OOP system in C (including rudimentary inheritance). think it can be confusing to use that term. so i think that we should use the term People have been saying objects for a long time with Pd and Max. which doesn't make it any better. people have been saying objects for a long time in OOP, and you could use this very definition for Pd/Max like objects as well: it's the little rectangle things in your Pd-patch. iirc, this has all been discussed to the end, and since then the term objectclass has been pretty much established for what matju refers to as class right now. objectclass is a pleonasm and leads to: an object is an instance of an objectclass, eugh! ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43
On Thu, 16 Dec 2010, Jamie Bullock wrote: objectclass is a pleonasm and leads to: an object is an instance of an objectclass, eugh! well, it's also a disambigüator for the case where you have other uses of the word class : pitch class, class of polynomials, school class, struggle of the classes, the class of mammals, business class seat, ... and in a philosophy class you might learn that the word class has another meaning in philosophy. Yet, for us, I think it is appropriate that the word class defaults to meaning objectclass, with or without space or hyphen. ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43
On Dec 14, 2010, at 6:52 PM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: On Tue, 14 Dec 2010, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: So did the software in question _always_ have the conflicting licenses, or was it originally just GPL and in a subsequent version the other license was added? Well, I found the military clause in PiDiP in déc.2005, and I have no idea for how long it had been there at that time. Until now, I had no idea about Unauthorized, really, but I just looked at a checkout from last month, and COPYING was just the GPLv2. pidip has always had the conflicting licenses. unauthorized was always GPLv2 up until now. .hc We have nothing to fear from love and commitment. - New York Senator Diane Savino, trying to convince the NY Senate to pass a gay marriage bill ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43
On 2010-12-14 05:58, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: Pd doesn't really have classes like OOP (i.e. no inheritance), so I as a matter of fact Pd implements a simple OOP system in C (including rudimentary inheritance). think it can be confusing to use that term. so i think that we should use the term People have been saying objects for a long time with Pd and Max. which doesn't make it any better. people have been saying objects for a long time in OOP, and you could use this very definition for Pd/Max like objects as well: it's the little rectangle things in your Pd-patch. iirc, this has all been discussed to the end, and since then the term objectclass has been pretty much established for what matju refers to as class right now. fgmasdr IOhannes smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43
On Tue, 2010-12-14 at 09:12 +0100, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: On 2010-12-14 05:58, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: Pd doesn't really have classes like OOP (i.e. no inheritance), so I as a matter of fact Pd implements a simple OOP system in C (including rudimentary inheritance). think it can be confusing to use that term. so i think that we should use the term People have been saying objects for a long time with Pd and Max. which doesn't make it any better. people have been saying objects for a long time in OOP, and you could use this very definition for Pd/Max like objects as well: it's the little rectangle things in your Pd-patch. iirc, this has all been discussed to the end, and since then the term objectclass has been pretty much established for what matju refers to as class right now. Yeah, let's stick with 'object class' when describing the functionality and let's call instances of an object class 'objects'. my 2¢. Roman ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43
On Dec 14, 2010, at 3:12 AM, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: On 2010-12-14 05:58, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: Pd doesn't really have classes like OOP (i.e. no inheritance), so I as a matter of fact Pd implements a simple OOP system in C (including rudimentary inheritance). think it can be confusing to use that term. so i think that we should use the term People have been saying objects for a long time with Pd and Max. which doesn't make it any better. people have been saying objects for a long time in OOP, and you could use this very definition for Pd/Max like objects as well: it's the little rectangle things in your Pd-patch. iirc, this has all been discussed to the end, and since then the term objectclass has been pretty much established for what matju refers to as class right now. objectclass works for me, but I don't think class alone makes sense for Pd. Pd could be implemented in Java or BASIC in SmallTalk, and neither would not be an object-oriented programming language. ;) But yes, there are some similarities between Pd and OO. .hc If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea, which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession of everyone, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it.- Thomas Jefferson ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43
Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: On Tue, 2010-12-14 at 05:01 +0100, ydego...@gmail.com wrote: that's really crazy what you did here : http://puredata.info/community/projects/software/unauthorized sorry i haven't seen any recent case of exploitation that reaches that level respect! sevy I thought you might want to promote your software. Its editable, change it if you want. .hc ok after all these useless discussions, i'll stick to my first and initial decision, not use pd-extended anymore, pure:dyne packages are more complete anyway. but i want my stuff to be taken out of pd-extended, otherwise it just shows your lack of respect to the authors, and i'm bored to speak to lawyers instead of honest people. ciao, sevy ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43
ydego...@gmail.com wrote: Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: On Tue, 2010-12-14 at 05:01 +0100, ydego...@gmail.com wrote: that's really crazy what you did here : http://puredata.info/community/projects/software/unauthorized sorry i haven't seen any recent case of exploitation that reaches that level respect! sevy I thought you might want to promote your software. Its editable, change it if you want. .hc ok after all these useless discussions, i'll stick to my first and initial decision, not use pd-extended anymore, pure:dyne packages are more complete anyway. but i want my stuff to be taken out of pd-extended, otherwise it just shows your lack of respect to the authors, and i'm bored to speak to lawyers instead of honest people. ciao, sevy btw, yo paso de contestar a los que han aprendido la psicologia en classes de matematica... ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43
If it were up to me, we'd keep all of Sevy's stuff in Pd-extended. The licenses Sevy offers conflict with the licenses of much of the software it borrows from (for example EffecTV) so they are invalid anyway. But I understand that this may not sit ethically with others so my second suggestion is, for the benefit of the Pd community, to keep all of Sevy's stuff that was released under GPL in whatever version it existed in at that point. I believe this is already Han's plan and I support it. For me, I'm going to use Sevy's stuff as if it is GPL. For example, I'm looking forward to the military contract I am expecting of torturing people, and at that point I think I'll make excellent use of PiDiP. I'll let Sevy sue me then. I don't buy the argument that the Sevy's stuff should be removed out of respect for the author, as this argument conflicts with a more compelling argument of respect for the community, for free software, and for the GPL license. It is weird and uncomfortable to me that one of our own would impose restrictions on the use of their software that even the infamous Microsoft wouldn't consider. I can't support such a position. -John On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 8:53 AM, ydego...@gmail.com ydego...@gmail.comwrote: i want my stuff to be taken out of pd-extended ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43
On Mon, 13 Dec 2010, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: You're right. I'm an object-o-phile. But do you find Related Objects troubling-- should it be Related Classes? well... yes In a lot of situations you need both. For something like canvas_class it doesn't make much sense to put all the details of what the class does in one giant help file Giant help files aren't much of a problem, but it would be more appropriate to introduce method-categories (as in Smalltalk) in order to avoid the mandatory quasi-alphabetical sorting. (GF sorts them like : bang float grid symbol pointer list, then all other names in alphabetical order, then any at the very end.) for instance, to follow your GFDP model, you'd have one see also section that includes [inlet] (which relates to [pd] but not to [table]) The t_class structure of [pd]/[table]/array/abstractions/patches is especially hairy. If a single t_class acts like it's many classes at once, it may make sense to document it as several classes anyway. However, pd will still refer you to a single help file for all those cases (except abstractions). The way a single t_class may act like several, is if it contains statements such as if (binbuf_getvec(x-te_binbuf)[0]==gensym(thatone)) ... Then it's looking up which alias has been used for the creation and varying the behaviour accordingly. (It could also be using multiple creators that store something to remember the same info, or have a single creator with multiple names, that stores its t_symbol *s in one way or another... I'm talking about all cases of a class acting like it's several) I mean that something can be called a class documentation-wise even though it might not be the case implementation-wise. What's important, then, is to structure the thought so that people can get the most out of those things, and not to document how the code is really written. But note that if you have a [table whatever] and a [s pd-whatever], you can do dynamic-patching instead of the [table], even though the [table] won't save the contents. You can try «obj 0 0 inlet» and «obj 0 20 outlet» and see that they really add inlets and outlets on a [table] object. Thus, in that manner, [inlet] and [outlet] are relevant to [table] objects. ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43
On Tue, 14 Dec 2010, John Harrison wrote: If it were up to me, we'd keep all of Sevy's stuff in Pd-extended. The licenses Sevy offers conflict with the licenses of much of the software it borrows from (for example EffecTV) so they are invalid anyway. Invalid licenses are not to be automatically ignored. If you sign a contract that contradicts itself, that doesn't allow you to ignore any part of that contract. Instead, the contract has to be explicitly amended so that it can be respected wholly. I don't buy the argument that the Sevy's stuff should be removed out of respect for the author, as this argument conflicts with a more compelling argument of respect for the community, for free software, and for the GPL license. Sevy's stuff should be removed out of respect for the GPL license. Do you get this ? ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43
On Tue, 2010-12-14 at 15:53 +0100, ydego...@gmail.com wrote: Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: On Tue, 2010-12-14 at 05:01 +0100, ydego...@gmail.com wrote: that's really crazy what you did here : http://puredata.info/community/projects/software/unauthorized sorry i haven't seen any recent case of exploitation that reaches that level respect! sevy I thought you might want to promote your software. Its editable, change it if you want. .hc ok after all these useless discussions, i'll stick to my first and initial decision, not use pd-extended anymore, pure:dyne packages are more complete anyway. but i want my stuff to be taken out of pd-extended, otherwise it just shows your lack of respect to the authors, and i'm bored to speak to lawyers instead of honest people. I mean no disrespect. When you released 'unauthorized' under the GPL, you made a promise to your users that 'unauthorized' would remain free software. That is the meaning of the GPL. I am merely acting on this promise that you made many years ago, a promise that you have done a good job sticking to until now. And for the record, no one said that PDP is being removed from Pd-extended. .hc ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43
On Tue, 14 Dec 2010, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: I mean no disrespect. When you released 'unauthorized' under the GPL, you made a promise to your users that 'unauthorized' would remain free software. That is the meaning of the GPL. That's not the meaning of it. The meaning of the GPL (or any other public license) is that once you put something under the GPL, *that* version of the software can be used under the same license forever. However, the owners of the copyright can choose any other license they want for the existing software as long as they don't make them conflict (users get to pick the license they want in that case). The owners of the copyright can also stop distributing the GPL version, and make a series of versions under whichever other license, and that's why the FSF considers forking to be a most critical right : the right to continue to update a free version of any software that has been free. You know this, and in effect, by volunteering as the maintainer of «Unauthorized», you are forking it, or announcing a pending fork (waiting for a diff to apply). ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43
On Mon, 13 Dec 2010, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: On Dec 13, 2010, at 12:27 PM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: On Mon, 13 Dec 2010, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: - autoconf is welcome in Pd-extended (see Gem, pdp, zexy, oscx, etc.) He's talking about the opposite : is autoconf required in Pd-extended ? Definitely not, there are Makefile-only, autoconf, and autoconf+automake projects in Pd-extended. ah, thought so. ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43
--- On Tue, 12/14/10, Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca wrote: From: Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca Subject: Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43 To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Cc: PD List pd-list@iem.at, Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at Date: Tuesday, December 14, 2010, 4:36 PM On Mon, 13 Dec 2010, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: You're right. I'm an object-o-phile. But do you find Related Objects troubling-- should it be Related Classes? well... yes In a lot of situations you need both. For something like canvas_class it doesn't make much sense to put all the details of what the class does in one giant help file Giant help files aren't much of a problem, but it would be more appropriate to introduce method-categories (as in Smalltalk) in order to avoid the mandatory quasi-alphabetical sorting. (GF sorts them like : bang float grid symbol pointer list, then all other names in alphabetical order, then any at the very end.) for instance, to follow your GFDP model, you'd have one see also section that includes [inlet] (which relates to [pd] but not to [table]) The t_class structure of [pd]/[table]/array/abstractions/patches is especially hairy. If a single t_class acts like it's many classes at once, it may make sense to document it as several classes anyway. However, pd will still refer you to a single help file for all those cases (except abstractions). Yeah, so currently I have links inside canvas-help.pd to table-help.pd, pd-help.pd, graph-help.pd, and a special note about Put menu arrays with a link to array-help.pd. array-help.pd is necessary to have there because triggering the help patch for the Put menu array is so obscure (I wonder if anyone here even knows what to click to get it.) The way a single t_class may act like several, is if it contains statements such as if (binbuf_getvec(x-te_binbuf)[0]==gensym(thatone)) ... Then it's looking up which alias has been used for the creation and varying the behaviour accordingly. (It could also be using multiple creators that store something to remember the same info, or have a single creator with multiple names, that stores its t_symbol *s in one way or another... I'm talking about all cases of a class acting like it's several) I mean that something can be called a class documentation-wise even though it might not be the case implementation-wise. What's important, then, is to structure the thought so that people can get the most out of those things, and not to document how the code is really written. But note that if you have a [table whatever] and a [s pd-whatever], you can do dynamic-patching instead of the [table], even though the [table] won't save the contents. You can try «obj 0 0 inlet» and «obj 0 20 outlet» and see that they really add inlets and outlets on a [table] object. Thus, in that manner, [inlet] and [outlet] are relevant to [table] objects. That's true, but just because it's possible to do that doesn't mean that [inlet] and [outlet] are relevant enough to show in the help patch for [table], any more than showing [list] in the help patch for [metro]. Also, it doesn't work the other way around-- [tabread], [tabwrite], etc. are not relevant to [pd]. ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43
--- On Tue, 12/14/10, Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca wrote: From: Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca Subject: Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43 To: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at Cc: PD List pd-list@iem.at Date: Tuesday, December 14, 2010, 8:56 PM On Tue, 14 Dec 2010, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: I mean no disrespect. When you released 'unauthorized' under the GPL, you made a promise to your users that 'unauthorized' would remain free software. That is the meaning of the GPL. That's not the meaning of it. The meaning of the GPL (or any other public license) is that once you put something under the GPL, *that* version of the software can be used under the same license forever. However, the owners of the copyright can choose any other license they want for the existing software as long as they don't make them conflict (users get to pick the license they want in that case). The owners of the copyright can also stop distributing the GPL version, and make a series of versions under whichever other license, and that's why the FSF considers forking to be a most critical right : the right to continue to update a free version of any software that has been free. You know this, and in effect, by volunteering as the maintainer of «Unauthorized», you are forking it, or announcing a pending fork (waiting for a diff to apply). So did the software in question _always_ have the conflicting licenses, or was it originally just GPL and in a subsequent version the other license was added? ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC -Inline Attachment Follows- ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43
On Tue, 14 Dec 2010, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: So did the software in question _always_ have the conflicting licenses, or was it originally just GPL and in a subsequent version the other license was added? Well, I found the military clause in PiDiP in déc.2005, and I have no idea for how long it had been there at that time. Until now, I had no idea about Unauthorized, really, but I just looked at a checkout from last month, and COPYING was just the GPLv2. ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43
Just curious Overall, at which point is a project forked? When additions are made or taken away? Or just when licence terms are changed? If the code is copied and then released under a different name? In this case it would be the licence change I believe On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 11:52 PM, Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.cawrote: On Tue, 14 Dec 2010, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: So did the software in question _always_ have the conflicting licenses, or was it originally just GPL and in a subsequent version the other license was added? Well, I found the military clause in PiDiP in déc.2005, and I have no idea for how long it had been there at that time. Until now, I had no idea about Unauthorized, really, but I just looked at a checkout from last month, and COPYING was just the GPLv2. ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43
On Mon, 13 Dec 2010, sevy wrote: this basically shows you have 3 collaborators and you call it a 'community' this basically shows you can't see further than a single webpage ; and you think of it as relevant insight, postable on pd-list. ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43
what ? again? because i criticize the structure of this fake community? because i protest against the way decisions are taken? this is immature? i will not qualify your comment here, it's just very low. and saying 'if you don't like people on this then subscribe ( i guess it was unsubscribe )' is even dumber, i don't have to agree with people again to work with pd and don't need an authorization from you. sevy ALAN BROOKER wrote: Sevy, How is this a constructive comment? In fact, how is it even constructive criticism? Your proof of the saying that goes, You can either not say anything and risk people thinking your ignorant or you can open your mouth and prove it. Really I think you need to grow up, I am really surprised at just how immature you are. If you don't like the people on the list then subscribe. Maybe I am wrong however, if you have a grievance then put it forward in a sensible way so that things can be worked out? If there is something I can do let me know? I think to have bad feelings with anyone on this list is not a good thing. Hans, I may be able to maintain a some libraries and it is something I'm looking into, my programming experience is limited but would like to contribute. On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 3:58 AM, sevy ydego...@gmail.com mailto:ydego...@gmail.com wrote: this basically shows you have 3 collaborators and you call it a 'community' On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 9:03 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@eds.org mailto:h...@eds.org wrote: One of the goals for Pd-extended 0.43 is to have all libraries have a maintainer, so Pd-extended isn't just a collection of lots of semi-working code. The end goal is to have a maintainer for all libraries that are included in Pd-extended. Here's the current list based on my knowledge: http://puredata.info/docs/LibrariesInPdExtended If you are interested in becoming the maintainer of any of the libraries that are currently lacking a maintainer, please add your name next to the library in question. Once you get the library up-to-date for Pd-extended, we can move it up to the maintained section on the top. Here's a rough sketch of the process of getting libraries into Pd-extended: http://puredata.info/docs/developer/GettingIntoPdextended .hc All mankind is of one author, and is one volume; when one man dies, one chapter is not torn out of the book, but translated into a better language; and every chapter must be so translated -John Donne ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailto:Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailto:Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43
because i protest against the way decisions are taken? did you ever see here any decision that was submitted to a vote? ( for example like which libraries should be included in extended ? or if the chord patches should be orange and with an arrow? ) ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43
You make a good point, I would support you on this as it is constructive criticism. Taking the piss out of people is just not good . all the best. Are you still maintaining PiDiP? On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 4:10 PM, ydego...@gmail.com ydego...@gmail.comwrote: because i protest against the way decisions are taken? did you ever see here any decision that was submitted to a vote? ( for example like which libraries should be included in extended ? or if the chord patches should be orange and with an arrow? ) ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43
* Downloads for PD extended from 2010-12-06 to 2010-12-13 for windows: 1607 Downloads for PD extended from 2010-12-06 to 2010-12-13 for OS X: 841 Downloads for PD extended from 2010-12-06 to 2010-12-13 for Debian: 6 so the total for downloads over a 7 day period across all platforms is 2454. That is allot of users for PD extended and the period doesn't even cover a whole month, that is a healthy user community to me. An email is sent asking for more people to help out in maintaining libraries and your response is to just take the piss and say 'ha ha here are only 3 collaborators...”. How is that suppose to make the few developers feel? How is that being constructive when someone is asking for help in maintaining the project? To say; “ Maybe if there was a more open process of selecting libraries there would be more developers” would be more helpful because maybe then things would change. It was a disappointing response, but I wish you the best. * * * * * On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 4:21 PM, ALAN BROOKER alan.brooker2...@gmail.comwrote: You make a good point, I would support you on this as it is constructive criticism. Taking the piss out of people is just not good . all the best. Are you still maintaining PiDiP? On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 4:10 PM, ydego...@gmail.com ydego...@gmail.comwrote: because i protest against the way decisions are taken? did you ever see here any decision that was submitted to a vote? ( for example like which libraries should be included in extended ? or if the chord patches should be orange and with an arrow? ) ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43
note exactly what i'm talking about : my libraries ( pidip and unauthorized ) cannot be included because of their license... good, i'm happy of that now i see in the new list that : * pdp is not included some other libraries have never been included like : * pdvjtools : never included, as people doing pd-extended don't care about video ( personally i think it's what's pd is best for ) * pdp_opencv, pix_opencv : sometimes we tried to include it but saw it was impossible for the rules pd-extended impose to your package ( no autoconf, ... ) so yeh all seems blocked, for the lack of discussions and agreements, not coming in any way from me. saludos, sevy ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43
yves, Your contributions are welcome in Pd-extended, you have recently chosen again to work against it. That's your choice. A couple of points: - autoconf is welcome in Pd-extended (see Gem, pdp, zexy, oscx, etc.) - pdvjtools, pdp_opencv, and pix_opencv all could be added if someone does the work. You've made it clear that my contributions there are not welcome there, so I stopped trying. Oftentimes, when a library gets added to Pd-extended, the original author stops doing the release work and it falls on me. For example, I don't work in video at all, yet I have fixed bugs in pdp, pdp2gem, and pidip. Plus I recently worked with Tom Schouten to make a pdp 0.12.6. .hc On Dec 13, 2010, at 11:49 AM, ydego...@gmail.com wrote: note exactly what i'm talking about : my libraries ( pidip and unauthorized ) cannot be included because of their license... good, i'm happy of that now i see in the new list that : * pdp is not included some other libraries have never been included like : * pdvjtools : never included, as people doing pd-extended don't care about video ( personally i think it's what's pd is best for ) * pdp_opencv, pix_opencv : sometimes we tried to include it but saw it was impossible for the rules pd-extended impose to your package ( no autoconf, ... ) so yeh all seems blocked, for the lack of discussions and agreements, not coming in any way from me. saludos, sevy ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list Access to computers should be unlimited and total. - the hacker ethic ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43
Hey Alan, Thanks for the offer! Maintaining a library mostly means keeping track of the issues and seeing that they get addressed. Things range from making releases, posting releases, fixing bugs, accepting patches, etc. It can also mean doing all of the work, if you so choose. I will help out where I can, and I'm sure many others will too. You can take on any library you want, I always say its best to take on one that you feel personally invested in. .hc On Dec 13, 2010, at 5:25 AM, ALAN BROOKER wrote: Sevy, How is this a constructive comment? In fact, how is it even constructive criticism? Your proof of the saying that goes, You can either not say anything and risk people thinking your ignorant or you can open your mouth and prove it. Really I think you need to grow up, I am really surprised at just how immature you are. If you don't like the people on the list then subscribe. Maybe I am wrong however, if you have a grievance then put it forward in a sensible way so that things can be worked out? If there is something I can do let me know? I think to have bad feelings with anyone on this list is not a good thing. Hans, I may be able to maintain a some libraries and it is something I'm looking into, my programming experience is limited but would like to contribute. On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 3:58 AM, sevy ydego...@gmail.com wrote: this basically shows you have 3 collaborators and you call it a 'community' On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 9:03 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@eds.org wrote: One of the goals for Pd-extended 0.43 is to have all libraries have a maintainer, so Pd-extended isn't just a collection of lots of semi- working code. The end goal is to have a maintainer for all libraries that are included in Pd-extended. Here's the current list based on my knowledge: http://puredata.info/docs/LibrariesInPdExtended If you are interested in becoming the maintainer of any of the libraries that are currently lacking a maintainer, please add your name next to the library in question. Once you get the library up- to-date for Pd-extended, we can move it up to the maintained section on the top. Here's a rough sketch of the process of getting libraries into Pd-extended: http://puredata.info/docs/developer/GettingIntoPdextended .hc All mankind is of one author, and is one volume; when one man dies, one chapter is not torn out of the book, but translated into a better language; and every chapter must be so translated -John Donne ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list “We must become the change we want to see. - Mahatma Gandhi ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43
On Mon, 13 Dec 2010, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: - autoconf is welcome in Pd-extended (see Gem, pdp, zexy, oscx, etc.) He's talking about the opposite : is autoconf required in Pd-extended ? ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43
A long standing complaint of Pd-extended is that it is hard to know what all is in it and how it got there. Plus the old build system is a bug ugly whack thing that is not understandable We've made the library template and that's working well so far. We Here are some concrete steps to take on to help with this effort, either as the maintainer of a library, or just where you can help: - add a page to the the downloads page http://puredata.info/community/projects/software/ (this will become http://puredata.info/downloads soon). - add releases to the download page - improving documentation - making a Debian package - taking a pure:dyne package and getting it ready for submission to Debian - test releases - update the code in the Pd-extended release branch, once that is in place There is some developing documentation here, its not cast in stone yet: http://puredata.info/docs/AddingYourProjectToDownloads http://puredata.info/docs/LibrariesInPdExtended http://puredata.info/docs/developer/GettingIntoPdextended There is a library template too. People aren't required to use this, but it makes things a lot easier IMHO: http://puredata.info/docs/developer/LibraryTemplate .hc On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 6:05 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at wrote: Hey Alan, Thanks for the offer! Maintaining a library mostly means keeping track of the issues and seeing that they get addressed. Things range from making releases, posting releases, fixing bugs, accepting patches, etc. It can also mean doing all of the work, if you so choose. I will help out where I can, and I'm sure many others will too. You can take on any library you want, I always say its best to take on one that you feel personally invested in. .hc On Dec 13, 2010, at 5:25 AM, ALAN BROOKER wrote: Sevy, How is this a constructive comment? In fact, how is it even constructive criticism? Your proof of the saying that goes, You can either not say anything and risk people thinking your ignorant or you can open your mouth and prove it. Really I think you need to grow up, I am really surprised at just how immature you are. If you don't like the people on the list then subscribe. Maybe I am wrong however, if you have a grievance then put it forward in a sensible way so that things can be worked out? If there is something I can do let me know? I think to have bad feelings with anyone on this list is not a good thing. Hans, I may be able to maintain a some libraries and it is something I'm looking into, my programming experience is limited but would like to contribute. On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 3:58 AM, sevy ydego...@gmail.com wrote: this basically shows you have 3 collaborators and you call it a 'community' On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 9:03 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@eds.org wrote: One of the goals for Pd-extended 0.43 is to have all libraries have a maintainer, so Pd-extended isn't just a collection of lots of semi- working code. The end goal is to have a maintainer for all libraries that are included in Pd-extended. Here's the current list based on my knowledge: http://puredata.info/docs/LibrariesInPdExtended If you are interested in becoming the maintainer of any of the libraries that are currently lacking a maintainer, please add your name next to the library in question. Once you get the library up- to-date for Pd-extended, we can move it up to the maintained section on the top. Here's a rough sketch of the process of getting libraries into Pd-extended: http://puredata.info/docs/developer/GettingIntoPdextended .hc All mankind is of one author, and is one volume; when one man dies, one chapter is not torn out of the book, but translated into a better language; and every chapter must be so translated -John Donne ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list “We must become the change we want to see. - Mahatma Gandhi ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list News is what people want to keep hidden and everything else is publicity. - Bill Moyers ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and
Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43
Seems like the power to decide what goes into Pd-extended lies in the same place it does in every other free software project out there: with those willing to do the work. Seems fair to me. D. On 12/13/10 7:35 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: Here are some concrete steps to take on to help with this effort, either as the maintainer of a library, or just where you can help: - add a page to the the downloads page http://puredata.info/community/projects/software/ (this will become http://puredata.info/downloads soon). - add releases to the download page - improving documentation - making a Debian package - taking a pure:dyne package and getting it ready for submission to Debian - test releases - update the code in the Pd-extended release branch, once that is in place There is some developing documentation here, its not cast in stone yet: http://puredata.info/docs/AddingYourProjectToDownloads http://puredata.info/docs/LibrariesInPdExtended http://puredata.info/docs/developer/GettingIntoPdextended There is a library template too. People aren't required to use this, but it makes things a lot easier IMHO: http://puredata.info/docs/developer/LibraryTemplate .hc -- ::: derek holzer ::: http://macumbista.net ::: ---Oblique Strategy # 198: Instead of changing the thing, change the world around it. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43
As far as improving documentation, I'd say every object in Pd-ext should be documented clearly in a help patch that outlines: 1) what the object does 2) what its arguments are (and how they function) 3) what messages are accepted at each inlet, and output at each outlet (and the meaning of those messages, unless it's obvious) 4) _clear_ example patch 5) any related objects (esp. internal objects) If right-clicking Help for an object doesn't bring up a help patch, or if that help patch is just a placeholder, it should be considered a bug. -Jonathan --- On Mon, 12/13/10, Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at wrote: From: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at Subject: Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43 To: PD List pd-list@iem.at Date: Monday, December 13, 2010, 7:35 PM A long standing complaint of Pd-extended is that it is hard to know what all is in it and how it got there. Plus the old build system is a bug ugly whack thing that is not understandable We've made the library template and that's working well so far. We Here are some concrete steps to take on to help with this effort, either as the maintainer of a library, or just where you can help: - add a page to the the downloads page http://puredata.info/community/projects/software/ (this will become http://puredata.info/downloads soon).- add releases to the download page- improving documentation- making a Debian package- taking a pure:dyne package and getting it ready for submission to Debian- test releases- update the code in the Pd-extended release branch, once that is in place There is some developing documentation here, its not cast in stone yet: http://puredata.info/docs/AddingYourProjectToDownloadshttp://puredata.info/docs/LibrariesInPdExtendedhttp://puredata.info/docs/developer/GettingIntoPdextended There is a library template too. People aren't required to use this, but it makes things a lot easier IMHO: http://puredata.info/docs/developer/LibraryTemplate .hc On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 6:05 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at wrote: Hey Alan, Thanks for the offer! Maintaining a library mostly means keeping track of the issues and seeing that they get addressed. Things range from making releases, posting releases, fixing bugs, accepting patches, etc. It can also mean doing all of the work, if you so choose. I will help out where I can, and I'm sure many others will too. You can take on any library you want, I always say its best to take on one that you feel personally invested in. .hc On Dec 13, 2010, at 5:25 AM, ALAN BROOKER wrote: Sevy, How is this a constructive comment? In fact, how is it even constructive criticism? Your proof of the saying that goes, You can either not say anything and risk people thinking your ignorant or you can open your mouth and prove it. Really I think you need to grow up, I am really surprised at just how immature you are. If you don't like the people on the list then subscribe. Maybe I am wrong however, if you have a grievance then put it forward in a sensible way so that things can be worked out? If there is something I can do let me know? I think to have bad feelings with anyone on this list is not a good thing. Hans, I may be able to maintain a some libraries and it is something I'm looking into, my programming experience is limited but would like to contribute. On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 3:58 AM, sevy ydego...@gmail.com wrote: this basically shows you have 3 collaborators and you call it a 'community' On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 9:03 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@eds.org wrote: One of the goals for Pd-extended 0.43 is to have all libraries have a maintainer, so Pd-extended isn't just a collection of lots of semi-working code. The end goal is to have a maintainer for all libraries that are included in Pd-extended. Here's the current list based on my knowledge: http://puredata.info/docs/LibrariesInPdExtended If you are interested in becoming the maintainer of any of the libraries that are currently lacking a maintainer, please add your name next to the library in question. Once you get the library up-to-date for Pd-extended, we can move it up to the maintained section on the top. Here's a rough sketch of the process of getting libraries into Pd-extended: http://puredata.info/docs/developer/GettingIntoPdextended .hc All mankind is of one author, and is one volume; when one man dies, one chapter is not torn out of the book, but translated into a better language; and every chapter must be so translated -John Donne ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43
On Mon, 13 Dec 2010, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: As far as improving documentation, I'd say every object in Pd-ext should be documented clearly in a help patch that outlines: I'd say every class in Pd-ext should be documented clearly in a help patch that outlines: 1) what the object does 1) what the class does 5) any related objects (esp. internal objects) 5) any related classes (esp. internal classes) ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43
ola, - pdvjtools, pdp_opencv, and pix_opencv all could be added if someone does the work. You've made it clear that my contributions there are not welcome there, so I stopped trying. nah nah, you've overwritten all our building system and then asked if it was ok... there's a big difference here Oftentimes, when a library gets added to Pd-extended, the original author stops doing the release work and it falls on me. For example, I don't work in video at all, yet I have fixed bugs in pdp, pdp2gem, and pidip. Plus I recently worked with Tom Schouten to make a pdp 0.12.6. yeh that's a scoop, why don't we know? .hc ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43
that's really crazy what you did here : http://puredata.info/community/projects/software/unauthorized sorry i haven't seen any recent case of exploitation that reaches that level respect! sevy ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43
--- On Tue, 12/14/10, Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca wrote: From: Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca Subject: Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43 To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Cc: PD List pd-list@iem.at, Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at Date: Tuesday, December 14, 2010, 3:04 AM On Mon, 13 Dec 2010, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: As far as improving documentation, I'd say every object in Pd-ext should be documented clearly in a help patch that outlines: I'd say every class in Pd-ext should be documented clearly in a help patch that outlines: You're right. I'm an object-o-phile. But do you find Related Objects troubling-- should it be Related Classes? 1) what the object does 1) what the class does In a lot of situations you need both. For something like canvas_class it doesn't make much sense to put all the details of what the class does in one giant help file-- for instance, to follow your GFDP model, you'd have one see also section that includes [inlet] (which relates to [pd] but not to [table]) as well as [tabread] or the Put menu array (vice versa). So you can have one help patch for the class that has links to individual objects. 5) any related objects (esp. internal objects) 5) any related classes (esp. internal classes) Ok so you do think it should say related classes. -Jonathan ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43
you maintain unauthorized ( free version, if free ever meant anything ) and pmpd ? wow, if that's not using other people's work, i dunno what fresh hell is this... very good takeover, very good semester result, you can apply for the employee of the month ydego...@gmail.com wrote: that's really crazy what you did here : http://puredata.info/community/projects/software/unauthorized sorry i haven't seen any recent case of exploitation that reaches that level respect! sevy ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43
On Tue, 2010-12-14 at 05:01 +0100, ydego...@gmail.com wrote: that's really crazy what you did here : http://puredata.info/community/projects/software/unauthorized sorry i haven't seen any recent case of exploitation that reaches that level respect! sevy I thought you might want to promote your software. Its editable, change it if you want. .hc ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43
On Mon, 2010-12-13 at 20:25 -0800, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: --- On Tue, 12/14/10, Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca wrote: From: Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca Subject: Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43 To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Cc: PD List pd-list@iem.at, Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at Date: Tuesday, December 14, 2010, 3:04 AM On Mon, 13 Dec 2010, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: As far as improving documentation, I'd say every object in Pd-ext should be documented clearly in a help patch that outlines: I'd say every class in Pd-ext should be documented clearly in a help patch that outlines: You're right. I'm an object-o-phile. But do you find Related Objects troubling-- should it be Related Classes? Pd doesn't really have classes like OOP (i.e. no inheritance), so I think it can be confusing to use that term. People have been saying objects for a long time with Pd and Max. .hc 1) what the object does 1) what the class does In a lot of situations you need both. For something like canvas_class it doesn't make much sense to put all the details of what the class does in one giant help file-- for instance, to follow your GFDP model, you'd have one see also section that includes [inlet] (which relates to [pd] but not to [table]) as well as [tabread] or the Put menu array (vice versa). So you can have one help patch for the class that has links to individual objects. 5) any related objects (esp. internal objects) 5) any related classes (esp. internal classes) Ok so you do think it should say related classes. -Jonathan ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43
One of the goals for Pd-extended 0.43 is to have all libraries have a maintainer, so Pd-extended isn't just a collection of lots of semi- working code. The end goal is to have a maintainer for all libraries that are included in Pd-extended. Here's the current list based on my knowledge: http://puredata.info/docs/LibrariesInPdExtended If you are interested in becoming the maintainer of any of the libraries that are currently lacking a maintainer, please add your name next to the library in question. Once you get the library up-to- date for Pd-extended, we can move it up to the maintained section on the top. Here's a rough sketch of the process of getting libraries into Pd-extended: http://puredata.info/docs/developer/GettingIntoPdextended .hc All mankind is of one author, and is one volume; when one man dies, one chapter is not torn out of the book, but translated into a better language; and every chapter must be so translated -John Donne ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43
this basically shows you have 3 collaborators and you call it a 'community' On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 9:03 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@eds.orgwrote: One of the goals for Pd-extended 0.43 is to have all libraries have a maintainer, so Pd-extended isn't just a collection of lots of semi-working code. The end goal is to have a maintainer for all libraries that are included in Pd-extended. Here's the current list based on my knowledge: http://puredata.info/docs/LibrariesInPdExtended If you are interested in becoming the maintainer of any of the libraries that are currently lacking a maintainer, please add your name next to the library in question. Once you get the library up-to-date for Pd-extended, we can move it up to the maintained section on the top. Here's a rough sketch of the process of getting libraries into Pd-extended: http://puredata.info/docs/developer/GettingIntoPdextended .hc All mankind is of one author, and is one volume; when one man dies, one chapter is not torn out of the book, but translated into a better language; and every chapter must be so translated -John Donne ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
