[PD] error: maximum object loading depth 1000 reached

[i go bananas]

hi,

i googled this error, and can see a bit of chatter about it, but not found
a solution yet.
My external was working fine, but i added a couple of things, and now when
i try to open it in pd, i get that error:

error: maximum object loading depth 1000 reached
anyone figure out the proper solution?  Have i done something wrong with my
external?

cheers, Matt
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Re: [PD] error: maximum object loading depth 1000 reached

[IOhannes m zmoelnig]

On 2016-02-15 10:32, i go bananas wrote:
> Have i done something wrong with my
> external?

use 'git bisect' to see if (and when) you have introduced something that
Pd doesn't like.

fgmasdr
IOhannes



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[PD] print to svg or png: font size, box shaping

[Jonghyun Kim]

hi list,

I wanna print pd patch to svg or png. I mean not to print to console, but
to vector image file.

I searched two methods, but either not acceptable yet.

what I expected:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7b/Pd_example_3.svg

but, what I get:

1: print ps(postscript): font size not correctly

https://2a2b66d052e595ab91afd8b684759eb36c0a8cf1.googledrive.com/host/0B42bn7ncw918TTE5V3p1WUFTeEk/pd-postscript-bad.ps

https://2a2b66d052e595ab91afd8b684759eb36c0a8cf1.googledrive.com/host/0B42bn7ncw918TTE5V3p1WUFTeEk/pd-postscript-bad-capture.png

2: pd-fileutils: font size problem, and shapes are a little bit strange
https://2a2b66d052e595ab91afd8b684759eb36c0a8cf1.googledrive.com/host/0B42bn7ncw918TTE5V3p1WUFTeEk/pd-fileutils-test.svg

How to get a properly screen capture of pd patch?

Thanks,
jonghyun
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Re: [PD] Gem on Raspberry pi

[Jack]

Very good news !
++

Jack



Le 15/02/2016 02:20, Antoine Villeret a écrit :
> Hi all, 
> 
> recently, Raspbian Gets Experimental OpenGL Driver [1].
> So I build Gem and it works.
> I didn't test it deeply but few examples, from basics to shader passing
> through particule system work fine.
> For now, I don't know any way to create a Gem window without a X server,
> but maybe it's somehow possible.
> There are two versions in deken already, an APT one, and a more recent one.
> Cheers
> 
> Antoine
> 
> [1] :
> http://news.softpedia.com/news/raspbian-gets-experimental-opengl-driver-gpu-now-used-for-acceleration-500152.shtml
> and 
> http://www.framboise314.fr/raspian-jessie-nouvelle-version-avec-opengl/#more-15672
> --
> do it yourself  
> http://antoine.villeret.free.fr
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] error: maximum object loading depth 1000 reached

[i go bananas]

thanks Iohannes.  will use that in future.

i found my problem.  I'd left out a character in this bit:

frum_4osc_tilde_class = class_new(gensym("frum_osc~"),

(it should have been "frum_4osc~")
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Re: [PD] print to svg or png: font size, box shaping

[Jonghyun Kim]

wow! this is really what I wanted! thanks so much!

jonghyun

On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 11:21 PM, IOhannes m zmoelnig 
wrote:

> On 2016-02-15 12:11, Jonghyun Kim wrote:
> > How to get a properly screen capture of pd patch?
>
> how about:
>  https://git.iem.at/pd-gui/patch2svg-plugin
>
>
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Re: [PD] Does Pd have a "sound"?

[Claude Heiland-Allen]

On 14/02/16 22:27, Matti Viljamaa wrote:

Do you think Pd has a characteristic sound to it? Or whether
discussion board threads claiming Pd (and Max) have a distinct (and
not good) sound just have people who haven’t listened to good
patches?


Some issues with Pd that affect sound character:

1. cos~ (and osc~) use a small table with linear interpolation, which 
means there is quite a lot of interpolation noise - I wrote about it 
here: http://mathr.co.uk/blog/2015-04-21_approximating_cosine.html


2. vcf~ (and probably other recursive filters) use single precision 
floating point in the feedback loop (pd-double might be different) which 
causes weird rounding artifacts - I wrote about it here: 
http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2010-08/082104.html


3. cubic interpolation (tabread4~ etc) in Pd uses an (imho) incorrect 
algorithm - it makes a curve that goes through 4 points instead of 
matching the derivatives at the nearest 2 points, which leads to sharp 
corners at the original sample points with associated aliasing artifacts 
- this has been discussed on the lists many times in the past, for 
example here: 
http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2008-06/062864.html and: 
http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2010-03/077278.html


4. sig~ (and implicit sig~ from float messages to signal inlets) is 
steppy and only takes effect at block boundaries - compare with .kr in 
SC3 which is (afaik) linearly interpolated between each block boundary


5. Pd doesn't print enough digits to perfectly reconstruct floating 
point values when round-tripping through files, so (eg) biquad~ 
coefficients can become imprecise if you don't write them outside Pd in 
a text editor


6. other systems tend to come bundled with more nice-sounding stuff like 
bandlimited oscillators etc, with Pd you tend to have to find externals 
yourself (deken should make that easier now)



Claude
--
http://mathr.co.uk

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Re: [PD] print to svg or png: font size, box shaping

[Jonghyun Kim]

Really great job. However, how to handle this? This issue is about font
spacing.

https://712625087ea263c28a6d8adf6c33d90d56fb5d20.googledrive.com/host/0B42bn7ncw918RDFkSzRyQ05VYVE/Screenshot
from 2016-02-15 23:57:07.png

jonghyun

On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 11:21 PM, IOhannes m zmoelnig 
wrote:

> On 2016-02-15 12:11, Jonghyun Kim wrote:
> > How to get a properly screen capture of pd patch?
>
> how about:
>  https://git.iem.at/pd-gui/patch2svg-plugin
>
>
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Re: [PD] Does Pd have a "sound"?

[Pagano, Patrick]

Yes it does and it make awesome drum machines, nice samplers and gorgeous 
reverbs and delays. A lot of dopes are into modular and feel the need to decry 
the last thing they were into because they are really just fanboys for DSP now 
like they were for baseball cards or other things the collected. I like both 
and pd still is the best computer program ever. Followed by Max then SC3. ❤️

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 15, 2016, at 9:57 AM, Claude Heiland-Allen  wrote:
> 
>> On 14/02/16 22:27, Matti Viljamaa wrote:
>> Do you think Pd has a characteristic sound to it? Or whether
>> discussion board threads claiming Pd (and Max) have a distinct (and
>> not good) sound just have people who haven’t listened to good
>> patches?
> 
> Some issues with Pd that affect sound character:
> 
> 1. cos~ (and osc~) use a small table with linear interpolation, which means 
> there is quite a lot of interpolation noise - I wrote about it here: 
> http://mathr.co.uk/blog/2015-04-21_approximating_cosine.html
> 
> 2. vcf~ (and probably other recursive filters) use single precision floating 
> point in the feedback loop (pd-double might be different) which causes weird 
> rounding artifacts - I wrote about it here: 
> http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2010-08/082104.html
> 
> 3. cubic interpolation (tabread4~ etc) in Pd uses an (imho) incorrect 
> algorithm - it makes a curve that goes through 4 points instead of matching 
> the derivatives at the nearest 2 points, which leads to sharp corners at the 
> original sample points with associated aliasing artifacts - this has been 
> discussed on the lists many times in the past, for example here: 
> http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2008-06/062864.html and: 
> http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2010-03/077278.html
> 
> 4. sig~ (and implicit sig~ from float messages to signal inlets) is steppy 
> and only takes effect at block boundaries - compare with .kr in SC3 which is 
> (afaik) linearly interpolated between each block boundary
> 
> 5. Pd doesn't print enough digits to perfectly reconstruct floating point 
> values when round-tripping through files, so (eg) biquad~ coefficients can 
> become imprecise if you don't write them outside Pd in a text editor
> 
> 6. other systems tend to come bundled with more nice-sounding stuff like 
> bandlimited oscillators etc, with Pd you tend to have to find externals 
> yourself (deken should make that easier now)
> 
> 
> Claude
> -- 
> http://mathr.co.uk
> 
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Re: [PD] print to svg or png: font size, box shaping

[Jonghyun Kim]

sorry, the link is broken. this is the new one.

https://712625087ea263c28a6d8adf6c33d90d56fb5d20.googledrive.com/host/0B42bn7ncw918RDFkSzRyQ05VYVE/svg-font-spacing.png

jonghyun

On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 12:02 AM, Jonghyun Kim  wrote:

> Really great job. However, how to handle this? This issue is about font
> spacing.
>
>
> https://712625087ea263c28a6d8adf6c33d90d56fb5d20.googledrive.com/host/0B42bn7ncw918RDFkSzRyQ05VYVE/Screenshot
> from 2016-02-15 23:57:07.png
>
> jonghyun
>
> On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 11:21 PM, IOhannes m zmoelnig 
> wrote:
>
>> On 2016-02-15 12:11, Jonghyun Kim wrote:
>> > How to get a properly screen capture of pd patch?
>>
>> how about:
>>  https://git.iem.at/pd-gui/patch2svg-plugin
>>
>>
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Re: [PD] Nettles. Was: Cyclone: List of Issues with existing objects by Alexandre Porres

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

hmmm, much of the discussion here could be maybe at another thread about
creating functionalities (in externals or pd-l2ork) that allow abstractions
to behave more like externals, so I'd suggest changing the topic for that
to go on. btw, I wouldn't see the point of relying on another external from
another library to make cyclone abstractions, and regarding the case of
some simple nettles objects, the main issue is not compiling externals
(because, well, they are already coded, complied and done), but this
discussion of the problems on how to load their object names.

Regarding this matter, it's been noted that "some OS don't like somes
character/names (like >).

Well, I find from the discussion that this is not quite true, cause the
issues for them to not load are for other reasons that seem to be covered
in the way the objects are built in cyclone. I might be missing something,
but that's what I got. And also, I asked this in my first message, but no
one answered or pointed that although these nettles externals load in MAC
OS that they do not load on Windows and Linux - so I'm gonna go with my
hunch that they do load.

Which brings me to inquire why not just have these externals load by
default in the Cyclone library?

If in fact it turns out that some OS can't load their weird symbol names,
there are also the regular name versions of all of them from Max that we
could use (In fact, we could use them as alias too even if there's no
actual issue...)

[greaterthan~] (>~), [greaterthaneq~] (>=~), [lessthan~] (<~),
[lessthaneq~] (<=~), [equals~] (==~), [notequals~] (!=~), [plusequals~]
(+=~), [rminus~] (!-~), [rminus] (!-), [rdiv~] (!/~), [rdiv]
(!/), [modulo~] (%~).


Using declare is not a clean solution, it makes it really harder to
remember how to use declare and the library to load, and then you need to
save the patch and reopen it for it to take effect, that's quite a work,
specially if it doesn't seem necessary at all, when they seem to be loading
just fine.

And even if they don't, that's not a reason to take them out of the
library. For example, in the zexy externals, even when they don't load
unless you use [hexloader], they're still there for you.

And, well, some objects might be on other libraries, but I don't know, I
counted 3 out of 12 that are in zexy (with some issues like having to use
[hexloader]). But this is not by far a reason to hide and/or exclude the
objects from cyclone. Even if the 12 of them were out there in other
libraries, it doesn't make much sense to hide or remove them because it
doesn't mean everyone will have the other libraries alternatives. And some
people like me may hope to depend on the smallest number of libraries as
possible, so getting the full potential of cyclone would be ideal.

If you were thinking about Pd Extended, that could make sense, but that's
dead. Or, in the development of Pd L2ork, that's also reaonsable to remove
redundancies, but this is not where we are at. This is just a library of
externals and there doesn't seem to be any reason for not to load these
objects by default.

Am I making sense?

What would I be missing that's an issue for loading them by default?

Thanks
Alex

2016-02-15 2:27 GMT-02:00 Jonathan Wilkes via Pd-list 
:

> Ivica,
> The point is that with control objects one could make an object that
> maps "n" abstraction inlets to a single object.  That single object can
> just prepend incoming messages with an index.  Same with dispatching
> objects to "n" outlets.
>
> Doing it that way allows the user to create abstractions with variable
> xlets
> without relying at all on dynamic patching.  Thus the patches end up more
> maintainable and easier to reason about.
>
> You can't do the same with signal connections.  So you'd have to sprout
> as many outlets from your object as you have inlets, in which case it's
> nearly
> the same complexity as dynamic patching with [inlet~].
>
> -Jonathan
>
>
> On Sunday, February 14, 2016 7:26 PM, Matt Barber 
> wrote:
>
>
> I asked for something like Antoine's design back in 2007. I think it's a
> great idea, because it behaves like a signal inlet in compiled objects.
> On Feb 14, 2016 6:48 PM, "Ivica Bukvic"  wrote:
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 14, 2016 at 5:54 PM, Jonathan Wilkes via Pd-list <
> pd-list@lists.iem.at> wrote:
>
> Hi Antoine,
> We're talking about two different kinds of "dynamic" nlets.  Yours seems
> to
> set a value for the signal based on whether or not there is a connection
> to that
> inlet.  What I'm talking about is a future object that would elegantly
> handle
> the creation of a variable number of inlets(~) or outlets(~) inside an
> abstraction.
>
> I'm pressing Ivica specifically on variable signal nlets because there's
> no way
> to flexibly handle them.
>
>
> Why not? First of all, we need to agree that such an object would be
> mostly useful at instantiation time (e.g. a silly example would be an
> abstraction that mimics 

Re: [PD] Does Pd have a "sound"?

[Lorenzo Sutton]

On 14/02/2016 23:27, Matti Viljamaa wrote:

Do you think Pd has a characteristic sound to it? Or whether discussion board 
threads claiming Pd (and Max) have a distinct (and not good) sound just have 
people who haven’t listened to good patches?


What do *you* think?
What is a (not good) sound?
...
...

:)


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Re: [PD] Nettles. Was: Cyclone: List of Issues with existing objects by Alexandre Porres

[Ivica Bukvic]

On Sun, Feb 14, 2016 at 11:27 PM, Jonathan Wilkes 
wrote:

> Ivica,
> The point is that with control objects one could make an object that
> maps "n" abstraction inlets to a single object.  That single object can
> just prepend incoming messages with an index.  Same with dispatching
> objects to "n" outlets.
>
> Doing it that way allows the user to create abstractions with variable
> xlets
> without relying at all on dynamic patching.  Thus the patches end up more
> maintainable and easier to reason about.
>

Perhaps but this is not a case of multiple nlets. Rather it is a way to
sidestep multiple nlets limitation that does not map 1:1 to the other
solution as it requires prepending (or providing data for all nlets in a
form of a list).


>
> You can't do the same with signal connections.  So you'd have to sprout
> as many outlets from your object as you have inlets, in which case it's
> nearly
> the same complexity as dynamic patching with [inlet~].
>

True.


>
> -Jonathan
>
>
> On Sunday, February 14, 2016 7:26 PM, Matt Barber 
> wrote:
>
>
> I asked for something like Antoine's design back in 2007. I think it's a
> great idea, because it behaves like a signal inlet in compiled objects.
> On Feb 14, 2016 6:48 PM, "Ivica Bukvic"  wrote:
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 14, 2016 at 5:54 PM, Jonathan Wilkes via Pd-list <
> pd-list@lists.iem.at> wrote:
>
> Hi Antoine,
> We're talking about two different kinds of "dynamic" nlets.  Yours seems
> to
> set a value for the signal based on whether or not there is a connection
> to that
> inlet.  What I'm talking about is a future object that would elegantly
> handle
> the creation of a variable number of inlets(~) or outlets(~) inside an
> abstraction.
>
> I'm pressing Ivica specifically on variable signal nlets because there's
> no way
> to flexibly handle them.
>
>
> Why not? First of all, we need to agree that such an object would be
> mostly useful at instantiation time (e.g. a silly example would be an
> abstraction that mimics selector~ behavior) and in dynamic patching where
> after creation one would need to connect bunch of stuff to this object and
> ensure that inside the abstraction additional inlets actually do something.
> Second, let's assume the dynamic nlet creation object is the rightmost
> object (otherwise user is asking for potential problems if something is
> already connected to the second inlet and then suddenly first inlet grows a
> couple more inlets before the second one--even this could be potentially
> handled, with adequate changes inside the pd core, or in this case pd-l2ork
> core). Now, if new nlets are generated, they will not autoconnect to
> anything--this is user's responsibility likely through some sort of live or
> scripted patching at instantiation time which could be driven from the same
> argument. Once that is all taken into an account, the last thing is to
> consider:
>
> suspend dsp
> instantiate new object
> rebuild dsp graph (as you would with instantiation of any new signal object
> resume dsp
> redraw object and parent object on its parent canvases
>
> One lingering concern is that this would effectively make the abstraction
> dirty which could be either seen as a good thing or handled as something
> that does not trigger the dirty flag.
>
> Best,
>
> Ico
>
>
>
> -Jonathan
>
>
> On Sunday, February 14, 2016 5:34 PM, Antoine Rousseau 
> wrote:
>
>
> I've only partially followed all this discussion (not using Max myself),
> but maybe an object I wrote could help you building such abstractions :
>
> [moonlib/dinlet~] is an [inlet~] with an init float value (constant
> signal) as an argument.
> This default value is overloaded when a signal is connected to the inlet,
> but restored when the signal is disconnected. A float sent to it would
> overwrite the default constant value.
>
> Of course the init default value could be one of the abstraction's
> arguments ($xxx)...
>
> BUT :
>
> - there is a very little hack (which could be called a bugfix...) that has
> to be made to pd source (this change is written in comment in the source
> file of dinlet~). I should open a ticket for that in the sourceforge repo.
> The involved bug is mixing the different float values up when [dinlet~] is
> used together with normal [inlet]s.
>
> - I should add a missing feature in dinlet~, which would add an inlet to
> the [dinlet~] object itself, to allow changing the default value inside of
> the abstraction.
>
> If anyone think this would be helpful, I could do this (open a ticket and
> update moonlib about this missing inlet).
>
>
>
> 2016-02-14 20:29 GMT+01:00 Jonathan Wilkes via Pd-list <
> pd-list@lists.iem.at>:
>
> > Why not simply have an inlet that can handle both inside an abstraction
> and route signal one way and number the other and then sprinkle that with
> dynamic nlet creation and you're done? Then you can simply abstract most
> cases.
>
> I read (and like) your spec 

Re: [PD] Does Pd have a "sound"?

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

can you share the patches? I'd like to see how the interpolation was
implemented

thanks

2016-02-15 13:53 GMT-02:00 Matt Barber :

> Re: cubic interpolation. Yes and no. Pd and csound both use the same
> Lagrange interpolator, which gives discontinuities at segment boundaries,
> but the segments it generates are actually a bit closer to what you would
> expect from sinc interpolation. SC3's Hermite interpolator, which matches
> two points and first derivatives at the boundaries gets rid of the
> discontinuities but at the price of some waveform distortion. The Hermite
> interpolator is also not continuous at the 2nd derivative on boundaries and
> is prone to sudden changes in concavity, while the Lagrange's 2nd
> derivative discontinuities are removable; there are no sudden changes.
>
> You can see this in the screenshot I attached, which demonstrates five
> interpolators in action.
>
> At the very top is the SR/4 cosine wave which serves as the source for the
> interpolators. At the bottom left is what we'd expect from a sinc
> interpolator (I haven't implemented it yet, but it should be very close to
> a cosine wave).
>
> In red are 1) Pd's [tabread4] cubic Lagrange interpolator using an
> array-reading abstraction [array-read4], and 2) The 4-point cubic Hermite
> interpolator [array-read4h]. You can clearly see the 1st-derivative
> discontinuities at the peaks in the former, and the 2nd-derivative
> discontinuities at zero crossings of the latter.
>
> In purple are 1) A 6-point quintic Lagrange interpolator [array-read6], 2)
> A 6-point quintic interpolator [array-read6h] which matches four points and
> first derivatives, and 3) A 6-point quintic interpolator [array-read6h2]
> which matches two points, first derivatives, and second derivatives.
>
> One important thing to notice is how the Lagrange interpolations are much
> closer in overall shape to the cosine wave at bottom left. The cost of
> matching derivatives is a compromise in the shape of the waveform between
> breakpoints.
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 9:57 AM, Claude Heiland-Allen 
> wrote:
>
>> On 14/02/16 22:27, Matti Viljamaa wrote:
>>
>>> Do you think Pd has a characteristic sound to it? Or whether
>>> discussion board threads claiming Pd (and Max) have a distinct (and
>>> not good) sound just have people who haven’t listened to good
>>> patches?
>>>
>>
>> Some issues with Pd that affect sound character:
>>
>> 1. cos~ (and osc~) use a small table with linear interpolation, which
>> means there is quite a lot of interpolation noise - I wrote about it here:
>> http://mathr.co.uk/blog/2015-04-21_approximating_cosine.html
>>
>> 2. vcf~ (and probably other recursive filters) use single precision
>> floating point in the feedback loop (pd-double might be different) which
>> causes weird rounding artifacts - I wrote about it here:
>> http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2010-08/082104.html
>>
>> 3. cubic interpolation (tabread4~ etc) in Pd uses an (imho) incorrect
>> algorithm - it makes a curve that goes through 4 points instead of matching
>> the derivatives at the nearest 2 points, which leads to sharp corners at
>> the original sample points with associated aliasing artifacts - this has
>> been discussed on the lists many times in the past, for example here:
>> http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2008-06/062864.html and:
>> http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2010-03/077278.html
>>
>> 4. sig~ (and implicit sig~ from float messages to signal inlets) is
>> steppy and only takes effect at block boundaries - compare with .kr in SC3
>> which is (afaik) linearly interpolated between each block boundary
>>
>> 5. Pd doesn't print enough digits to perfectly reconstruct floating point
>> values when round-tripping through files, so (eg) biquad~ coefficients can
>> become imprecise if you don't write them outside Pd in a text editor
>>
>> 6. other systems tend to come bundled with more nice-sounding stuff like
>> bandlimited oscillators etc, with Pd you tend to have to find externals
>> yourself (deken should make that easier now)
>>
>>
>> Claude
>> --
>> http://mathr.co.uk
>>
>>
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Re: [PD] Does Pd have a "sound"?

[Andy Farnell]

Good list of technical peculiarities Claude. For me, the "sound" is those
quirks combined with how Chris describes a "cultural" or "contextual" use.
I used to be great at knowing the sound of software or hardware sources
and could spot Reaktor, or a Roland analogue in moments. But emulations
got better and my ears got older, and maybe I began to care less about
implementation and more about artistic intent. As Chris says,
different tools tend to make you think and work in certain patterns,
and I think it is this more than anything that constitutes a "sound".

cheers
Andy


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Re: [PD] Gem on Raspberry pi

[Jaime Oliver]

indeed!
Any specific instructions to compile?
J
> On Feb 15, 2016, at 6:45 AM, Jack  wrote:
> 
> Very good news !
> ++
> 
> Jack
> 
> 
> 
> Le 15/02/2016 02:20, Antoine Villeret a écrit :
>> Hi all, 
>> 
>> recently, Raspbian Gets Experimental OpenGL Driver [1].
>> So I build Gem and it works.
>> I didn't test it deeply but few examples, from basics to shader passing
>> through particule system work fine.
>> For now, I don't know any way to create a Gem window without a X server,
>> but maybe it's somehow possible.
>> There are two versions in deken already, an APT one, and a more recent one.
>> Cheers
>> 
>> Antoine
>> 
>> [1] :
>> http://news.softpedia.com/news/raspbian-gets-experimental-opengl-driver-gpu-now-used-for-acceleration-500152.shtml
>> and 
>> http://www.framboise314.fr/raspian-jessie-nouvelle-version-avec-opengl/#more-15672
>> --
>> do it yourself  
>> http://antoine.villeret.free.fr
>> 
>> 
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Re: [PD] Does Pd have a "sound"?

[cyrille henry]

hello,

I think that pd did not really have a distinctive sound. But all objects have a 
"sound".
Many in this thread point out objects that can be improve.
But you don't have to use an object if you don't like how it sound : most of 
the time, there are lot's of alternatives.

So, it's up to you to make anything sound "good".

cheers
c


Le 14/02/2016 23:27, Matti Viljamaa a écrit :

Do you think Pd has a characteristic sound to it? Or whether discussion board 
threads claiming Pd (and Max) have a distinct (and not good) sound just have 
people who haven’t listened to good patches?

-Matti



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Re: [PD] Does Pd have a "sound"?

[david medine]

Well, one could write a book about how to make a triangle wave. I've 
decided it's impossible.


On 2/15/16 8:24 AM, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
I still believe differences between Pd and SC depend on other 
technical details than the ones presented, because similar objects 
like triangle~ and VarSaw will just sound quite differently, hence it 
may rely on subtleties inside the objects themselves. And I'm not 
talking about the "cultural" use which is something I believe makes 
quite a difference even in the Pd x Max world (when they both sound 
quite similar).


cheers

2016-02-15 13:54 GMT-02:00 Andy Farnell >:



Good list of technical peculiarities Claude. For me, the "sound"
is those
quirks combined with how Chris describes a "cultural" or
"contextual" use.
I used to be great at knowing the sound of software or hardware
sources
and could spot Reaktor, or a Roland analogue in moments. But
emulations
got better and my ears got older, and maybe I began to care less about
implementation and more about artistic intent. As Chris says,
different tools tend to make you think and work in certain patterns,
and I think it is this more than anything that constitutes a "sound".

cheers
Andy


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Re: [PD] Nettles. Was: Cyclone: List of Issues with existing objects by Alexandre Porres

[Martin Peach]

On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 10:36 AM, Alexandre Torres Porres 
wrote:

> hmmm, much of the discussion here could be maybe at another thread about
> creating functionalities (in externals or pd-l2ork) that allow abstractions
> to behave more like externals, so I'd suggest changing the topic for that
> to go on. btw, I wouldn't see the point of relying on another external from
> another library to make cyclone abstractions, and regarding the case of
> some simple nettles objects, the main issue is not compiling externals
> (because, well, they are already coded, complied and done), but this
> discussion of the problems on how to load their object names.
>
> Regarding this matter, it's been noted that "some OS don't like somes
> character/names (like >).
>
> Well, I find from the discussion that this is not quite true, cause the
> issues for them to not load are for other reasons that seem to be covered
> in the way the objects are built in cyclone. I might be missing something,
> but that's what I got. And also, I asked this in my first message, but no
> one answered or pointed that although these nettles externals load in MAC
> OS that they do not load on Windows and Linux - so I'm gonna go with my
> hunch that they do load.
>
>
If you look in Pd source file x_arithmetic.c you will find this line:
binop2_gt_class = class_new(gensym(">"), (t_newmethod)binop2_gt_new, 0,
What it does is register the symbol ">" and associate it with the function
binop2_gt_new, which will create the "greater than" object. If the symbol
had not been set up when Pd started (when x_arithmetic_setup() is called at
startup), then Pd would start looking through its list of directories to
search for a file named >.pd_linux, or >.darwin, or >.dll, or other
suffixes, depending on the OS. None of those names are legal file names on
those systems, so an error would occur and the object would not create.
Cyclone, when it's properly set up, will also register a bunch of symbols
when it starts, thereby avoiding file searches for illegal filenames. If
only part of cyclone is loaded, it may not have registered the weird
symbols, so they won't load.

Martin
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Re: [PD] Gem on Raspberry pi

[Pagano, Patrick]

Right on.


Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 15, 2016, at 2:50 PM, Ivica Ico Bukvic  wrote:
> 
> FWIW, pd-l2ork for RPi ships by default with Gem included.
> 
>> On 2/15/2016 6:45 AM, Jack wrote:
>> Very good news !
>> ++
>> 
>> Jack
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Le 15/02/2016 02:20, Antoine Villeret a écrit :
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> recently, Raspbian Gets Experimental OpenGL Driver [1].
>>> So I build Gem and it works.
>>> I didn't test it deeply but few examples, from basics to shader passing
>>> through particule system work fine.
>>> For now, I don't know any way to create a Gem window without a X server,
>>> but maybe it's somehow possible.
>>> There are two versions in deken already, an APT one, and a more recent one.
>>> Cheers
>>> 
>>> Antoine
>>> 
>>> [1] :
>>> http://news.softpedia.com/news/raspbian-gets-experimental-opengl-driver-gpu-now-used-for-acceleration-500152.shtml
>>> and 
>>> http://www.framboise314.fr/raspian-jessie-nouvelle-version-avec-opengl/#more-15672
>>> --
>>> do it yourself
>>> http://antoine.villeret.free.fr
>>> 
>>> 
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Re: [PD] Nettles. Was: Cyclone: List of Issues with existing objects by Alexandre Porres

[Fred Jan Kraan]

On 2016-02-15 07:38 PM, Martin Peach wrote:


occur and the object would not create. Cyclone, when it's properly set
up, will also register a bunch of symbols when it starts, thereby
avoiding file searches for illegal filenames. If only part of cyclone is
loaded, it may not have registered the weird symbols, so they won't load.


Most of cyclone are single objects files, as per pd-extended. The 
nettles part is a multi object library file. This seemed the simplest 
way to re-introduce them while avoiding the weird symbol issues. 
[declare] seemed more elegant than adding hexloader compliant object 
file names.


Martin


Fred Jan


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Re: [PD] Gem on Raspberry pi

[Antoine Villeret]

@jaime : I build it with usual debian steps :

./autogen.sh
./configure
make
sudo make install

I didn't use any special flags specific to RPI 2 CPU.

@ivica ; which version pd-l2ork includes ?

--
do it yourself
http://antoine.villeret.free.fr

2016-02-15 20:55 GMT+01:00 Pagano, Patrick :

> Right on.
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Feb 15, 2016, at 2:50 PM, Ivica Ico Bukvic  wrote:
> >
> > FWIW, pd-l2ork for RPi ships by default with Gem included.
> >
> >> On 2/15/2016 6:45 AM, Jack wrote:
> >> Very good news !
> >> ++
> >>
> >> Jack
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Le 15/02/2016 02:20, Antoine Villeret a écrit :
> >>> Hi all,
> >>>
> >>> recently, Raspbian Gets Experimental OpenGL Driver [1].
> >>> So I build Gem and it works.
> >>> I didn't test it deeply but few examples, from basics to shader passing
> >>> through particule system work fine.
> >>> For now, I don't know any way to create a Gem window without a X
> server,
> >>> but maybe it's somehow possible.
> >>> There are two versions in deken already, an APT one, and a more recent
> one.
> >>> Cheers
> >>>
> >>> Antoine
> >>>
> >>> [1] :
> >>>
> http://news.softpedia.com/news/raspbian-gets-experimental-opengl-driver-gpu-now-used-for-acceleration-500152.shtml
> >>> and
> http://www.framboise314.fr/raspian-jessie-nouvelle-version-avec-opengl/#more-15672
> >>> --
> >>> do it yourself
> >>> http://antoine.villeret.free.fr
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ___
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Re: [PD] Nettles. Was: Cyclone: List of Issues with existing objects by Alexandre Porres

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

On 2016-02-15 07:38 PM, Martin Peach wrote:

> If you look in Pd source file x_arithmetic.c you will find this line:
> binop2_gt_class = class_new(gensym(">"), (t_newmethod)binop2_gt_new, 0,
>

Well, by looking at the nettles.c code, we find the exact same structure

sigeq_class = class_new(gensym("==~"),(t_newmethod)sigeq_new, 0,

So cyclone is taking care of this problem in the same way!

None of those names are legal file names on those systems.
>

Cool, so it's not a matter of one particular OS having an issue an not
another, it's a general issue to all of them that have the workaround which
is already done.

Cyclone, when it's properly set up, will also register a bunch of symbols
> when it starts, thereby avoiding file searches for illegal filenames.


Yep, this is what I'm assuming, that you can make it work if you do the
right thing. For example, I mentioned I downloaded a version of the zexy
library that loads [>~] without the need of a [hexloader] object. I just
put "zexy" in the search patch and [>~] loads quite easily.


> If only part of cyclone is loaded, it may not have registered the weird
> symbols, so they won't load


These objects are not loaded, so only a part of cyclone is in fact loaded,
I'm not sure why yet, it's kinda over my head. I'm having a hard time
trying to figure it out the issues of needing to use [declare] and not
loading this files beforehand.

But I just believe you can have them load with no problem in any OS now,
right?

cheers
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Re: [PD] Nettles. Was: Cyclone: List of Issues with existing objects by Alexandre Porres

[Martin Peach]

On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 5:21 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres 
wrote:

> On 2016-02-15 07:38 PM, Martin Peach wrote:
>
>> If you look in Pd source file x_arithmetic.c you will find this line:
>> binop2_gt_class = class_new(gensym(">"), (t_newmethod)binop2_gt_new, 0,
>>
>
> Well, by looking at the nettles.c code, we find the exact same structure
>
> sigeq_class = class_new(gensym("==~"),(t_newmethod)sigeq_new, 0,
>
> So cyclone is taking care of this problem in the same way!
>


Looks like it. You just need to make sure that code is called somehow, e.g.
by declaring its library.


>
> ...
>

But I just believe you can have them load with no problem in any OS now,
> right?
>
>
>
They should load on any OS, as long as the library setup has been done so
Pd knows about them.

Martin
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Re: [PD] Nettles. Was: Cyclone: List of Issues with existing objects by Alexandre Porres

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

2016-02-15 18:23 GMT-02:00 Fred Jan Kraan 
>
> Most of cyclone are single objects files, as per pd-extended. The nettles
> part is a multi object library file. This seemed the simplest way to
> re-introduce them while avoiding the weird symbol issues. [declare] seemed
> more elegant than adding hexloader compliant object file names.
>

I'm sorry this is  still hard for me to get, so I need to keep asking
questions about what you mean. I guess I'm having a harder time
understanding what you mean by "adding hexloader compliant object file
names".

But I know this: I downlaoded zexy form deken and included it in the search
path of pd vanilla 0.46-7. I can now easily load an object like [>~]
without the need of the [hexloader] object, [declare] or anything.

There were also other given reasons, like this not being possible in a
particular OS, but that doesn't seem to be a problem.

So, simply put, it is possible... why couldn't we do this with cyclone? Or
is it quite possible but there is a choice not to do it?

Using declare is making it harder, so if there's a way to prevent it, I
strongly believe, as a Pd user that we should prevent it. In fact, I have
to confess that in 10 years of patching with Pd I had never needed to use
[declare], this is the first time I had to read its help file. I have also
written over 320 examples for my classes in Pd Extended and never had to
use it.

I find it really problematic that it seems you have to include flags, know
a weird name not related to "cyclone" and, worst of all, save and close
your patch to reopen and then be able to get the object you want. This is
really a bad choice over just being able to load the object without any of
this.

please let me know of any issues I'm still not getting

cheers

2016-02-15 20:21 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres :

> On 2016-02-15 07:38 PM, Martin Peach wrote:
>
>> If you look in Pd source file x_arithmetic.c you will find this line:
>> binop2_gt_class = class_new(gensym(">"), (t_newmethod)binop2_gt_new, 0,
>>
>
> Well, by looking at the nettles.c code, we find the exact same structure
>
> sigeq_class = class_new(gensym("==~"),(t_newmethod)sigeq_new, 0,
>
> So cyclone is taking care of this problem in the same way!
>
> None of those names are legal file names on those systems.
>>
>
> Cool, so it's not a matter of one particular OS having an issue an not
> another, it's a general issue to all of them that have the workaround which
> is already done.
>
> Cyclone, when it's properly set up, will also register a bunch of symbols
>> when it starts, thereby avoiding file searches for illegal filenames.
>
>
> Yep, this is what I'm assuming, that you can make it work if you do the
> right thing. For example, I mentioned I downloaded a version of the zexy
> library that loads [>~] without the need of a [hexloader] object. I just
> put "zexy" in the search patch and [>~] loads quite easily.
>
>
>> If only part of cyclone is loaded, it may not have registered the weird
>> symbols, so they won't load
>
>
> These objects are not loaded, so only a part of cyclone is in fact loaded,
> I'm not sure why yet, it's kinda over my head. I'm having a hard time
> trying to figure it out the issues of needing to use [declare] and not
> loading this files beforehand.
>
> But I just believe you can have them load with no problem in any OS now,
> right?
>
> cheers
>
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Re: [PD] Nettles. Was: Cyclone: List of Issues with existing objects by Alexandre Porres

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

2016-02-15 20:33 GMT-02:00 Martin Peach :

> On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 5:21 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres
> Looks like it. You just need to make sure that code is called somehow,
> e.g. by declaring its library.
>

But it's not like using [declare] is the only way to do this, right?



> They should load on any OS, as long as the library setup has been done so
> Pd knows about them.
>

meaning it could be done in a way that doesn't need [declare], right?

cheers
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Re: [PD] Does Pd have a "sound"?

[j...@jeanmarie-adrien.net]

lol
Le 15 févr. 2016 à 18:37, david medine  a écrit :

> Well, one could write a book about how to make a triangle wave. I've decided 
> it's impossible.
> 
> On 2/15/16 8:24 AM, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
>> I still believe differences between Pd and SC depend on other technical 
>> details than the ones presented, because similar objects like triangle~ and 
>> VarSaw will just sound quite differently, hence it may rely on subtleties 
>> inside the objects themselves. And I'm not talking about the "cultural" use 
>> which is something I believe makes quite a difference even in the Pd x Max 
>> world (when they both sound quite similar).
>> 
>> cheers
>> 
>> 2016-02-15 13:54 GMT-02:00 Andy Farnell :
>> 
>> Good list of technical peculiarities Claude. For me, the "sound" is those
>> quirks combined with how Chris describes a "cultural" or "contextual" use.
>> I used to be great at knowing the sound of software or hardware sources
>> and could spot Reaktor, or a Roland analogue in moments. But emulations
>> got better and my ears got older, and maybe I began to care less about
>> implementation and more about artistic intent. As Chris says,
>> different tools tend to make you think and work in certain patterns,
>> and I think it is this more than anything that constitutes a "sound".
>> 
>> cheers
>> Andy
>> 
>> 
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Re: [PD] Gem on Raspberry pi

[Richie Cyngler]

So very good thanks for letting us know!

Antoine, did you try this on a Pi1 or Pi2 please?

On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 10:45 PM, Jack  wrote:

> Very good news !
> ++
>
> Jack
>
>
>
> Le 15/02/2016 02:20, Antoine Villeret a écrit :
> > Hi all,
> >
> > recently, Raspbian Gets Experimental OpenGL Driver [1].
> > So I build Gem and it works.
> > I didn't test it deeply but few examples, from basics to shader passing
> > through particule system work fine.
> > For now, I don't know any way to create a Gem window without a X server,
> > but maybe it's somehow possible.
> > There are two versions in deken already, an APT one, and a more recent
> one.
> > Cheers
> >
> > Antoine
> >
> > [1] :
> >
> http://news.softpedia.com/news/raspbian-gets-experimental-opengl-driver-gpu-now-used-for-acceleration-500152.shtml
> > and
> http://www.framboise314.fr/raspian-jessie-nouvelle-version-avec-opengl/#more-15672
> > --
> > do it yourself
> > http://antoine.villeret.free.fr
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
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-- 

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Re: [PD] Gem on Raspberry pi

[Jack]

According to (in french) :
http://www.framboise314.fr/raspian-jessie-nouvelle-version-avec-opengl/#more-15672

OpenGL is only available on RPi2.
++

Jack



Le 16/02/2016 01:20, Richie Cyngler a écrit :
> So very good thanks for letting us know!
> 
> Antoine, did you try this on a Pi1 or Pi2 please?
> 
> On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 10:45 PM, Jack  > wrote:
> 
> Very good news !
> ++
> 
> Jack
> 
> 
> 
> Le 15/02/2016 02:20, Antoine Villeret a écrit :
> > Hi all,
> >
> > recently, Raspbian Gets Experimental OpenGL Driver [1].
> > So I build Gem and it works.
> > I didn't test it deeply but few examples, from basics to shader
> passing
> > through particule system work fine.
> > For now, I don't know any way to create a Gem window without a X
> server,
> > but maybe it's somehow possible.
> > There are two versions in deken already, an APT one, and a more
> recent one.
> > Cheers
> >
> > Antoine
> >
> > [1] :
> >
> 
> http://news.softpedia.com/news/raspbian-gets-experimental-opengl-driver-gpu-now-used-for-acceleration-500152.shtml
> > and
> 
> http://www.framboise314.fr/raspian-jessie-nouvelle-version-avec-opengl/#more-15672
> > --
> > do it yourself
> > http://antoine.villeret.free.fr
> >
> >
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Re: [PD] Pd-list Digest, Vol 131, Issue 43

[Brynna]

Hey can you add me to your weekly digest rather than daily, thanks 

Brynna

 pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote 

>Send Pd-list mailing list submissions to
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>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>than "Re: Contents of Pd-list digest..."
>
>
>Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: Nettles. Was: Cyclone: List of Issues with existing
>  objects by Alexandre Porres (Jonathan Wilkes)
>   2. Re: Nettles. Was: Cyclone: List of Issues with existing
>  objects by Alexandre Porres (Ivica Ico Bukvic)
>   3. Re: Nettles. Was: Cyclone: List of Issues with existing
>  objects by Alexandre Porres (Matt Barber)
>
>
>--
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2016 17:55:27 + (UTC)
>From: Jonathan Wilkes 
>To: Matt Barber , Ivica Bukvic 
>Cc: Pd-list 
>Subject: Re: [PD] Nettles. Was: Cyclone: List of Issues with existing
>   objects by Alexandre Porres
>Message-ID:
>   <206415724.3984306.1455472527172.javamail.ya...@mail.yahoo.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>> but why don't I need this when I load the cyclone externals?
>If every cyclone external has already been loaded before your patch loads, 
>then there's no problem.
>The problem comes when Pd tries to search for a binary to load-- for example, 
>when you type a name 
>into an object box that Pd doesn't know.  If that name has characters that 
>can't appear in a filename 
>(like "<") then you need to have hexloader loaded already.
>-- next part --
>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>URL: 
>
>
>--
>
>Message: 2
>Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2016 13:18:17 -0500
>From: Ivica Ico Bukvic 
>To: Matt Barber 
>Cc: Pd-list 
>Subject: Re: [PD] Nettles. Was: Cyclone: List of Issues with existing
>   objects by Alexandre Porres
>Message-ID: <56c0c4e9.8020...@vt.edu>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>
>Why not simply have an inlet that can handle both inside an abstraction 
>and route signal one way and number the other and then sprinkle that 
>with dynamic nlet creation and you're done? Then you can simply abstract 
>most cases.
>
>On 2/14/2016 11:36 AM, Matt Barber wrote:
>> [gt~] is a great example of something that could work as an 
>> abstraction, except for the pesky right inlet which should take a 
>> signal if there's no creation argument, but float otherwise.
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 14, 2016 at 10:50 AM, Ivica Bukvic > > wrote:
>>
>> What I am also trying to do eventually in pd-l2ork is weed out
>> redundant objects and only keep the ones that do the said task the
>> best while still supporting other objects' idiosyncrasies (if
>> any). There is absolutely no reason to have multiple objects of
>> the same kind. Ultimately, one could keep all the externals in the
>> same folder and completely do away with all the declares, imports,
>> and other things that make learning pd unnecessarily harder.
>>
>> -- 
>> Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
>> Associate Professor
>> Computer Music
>> ICAT Senior Fellow
>> Director -- DISIS, L2Ork
>> Virginia Tech
>> School of Performing Arts – 0141
>> Blacksburg, VA 24061
>> (540) 231-6139 
>> i...@vt.edu 
>> www.performingarts.vt.edu 
>> disis.icat.vt.edu 
>> l2ork.icat.vt.edu 
>> ico.bukvic.net 
>>
>> On Feb 14, 2016 8:40 AM, "Fred Jan Kraan" > > wrote:
>>
>> Hi Alexandre,
>>
>> guess some of it is in:
>> 
>> http://fjkraan.home.xs4all.nl/digaud/puredata/cyclone/cycloneToDo.html
>>
>>
>> This list is also becoming a list of what has been done.
>>
>>
>> As with _nettles_
>>
>> "try to resurrect as independent object library"
>>
>> Anyway, tell me if this gets includes on this file.
>>
>>
>> Yes, the nettles-objects are part of the latest cyclone
>> versions. They are part of the nettles library, which can be
>> loaded with [declare]. Not all operating systems like the '<'
>> and '>' in the object names and there is overlap with other
>> library objects, so only 

Re: [PD] Does Pd have a "sound"?

[Dan Wilcox]

And this is why many of us prefer it … :)


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika 
danomatika.com 
robotcowboy.com 
> On Feb 14, 2016, at 8:24 PM, Chris McCormick  wrote:
> 
> As a result a lot of Pd work might be best described as "raw" and "live".

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Re: [PD] Pd-list Digest, Vol 131, Issue 55

[Dan Wilcox]

If you’re only doing a few patches, I find exporting to postscript, converting 
to pdf, & then loading the pdf into a vector graphics program like Inkscape 
works. In Inkscape, I then fix the font sizing and spacing as well as choose a 
different font.


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika 
danomatika.com 
robotcowboy.com 
> On Feb 15, 2016, at 8:02 AM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> From: Jonghyun Kim >
> Subject: [PD] print to svg or png: font size, box shaping
> Date: February 15, 2016 at 4:11:59 AM MST
> To: "pd-list@lists.iem.at " 
> >
> 
> 
> hi list,
> 
> I wanna print pd patch to svg or png. I mean not to print to console, but to 
> vector image file.
> 
> I searched two methods, but either not acceptable yet.
> 
> what I expected:
> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7b/Pd_example_3.svg 
> 
> 
> but, what I get:
> 
> 1: print ps(postscript): font size not correctly 
> 
> https://2a2b66d052e595ab91afd8b684759eb36c0a8cf1.googledrive.com/host/0B42bn7ncw918TTE5V3p1WUFTeEk/pd-postscript-bad.ps
>  
> 
> 
> https://2a2b66d052e595ab91afd8b684759eb36c0a8cf1.googledrive.com/host/0B42bn7ncw918TTE5V3p1WUFTeEk/pd-postscript-bad-capture.png
>  
> 
> 
> 2: pd-fileutils: font size problem, and shapes are a little bit strange
> https://2a2b66d052e595ab91afd8b684759eb36c0a8cf1.googledrive.com/host/0B42bn7ncw918TTE5V3p1WUFTeEk/pd-fileutils-test.svg
>  
> 
> 
> How to get a properly screen capture of pd patch?
> 
> Thanks,
> jonghyun 

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Re: [PD] Does Pd have a "sound"?

[Matt Barber]

If there is difference between the sound of [triangle~] and VarSaw, it
might actually be in the way phase is generated. The algorithms themselves
are pretty much the same, but while VarSaw makes its own single-precision
phase by simply subtracting 1 when an increment takes it past 1.0 (using a
conditional on each sample), [triangle~] is a waveshaper that is fed phase.
Pd's phasor is a little idiosyncratic, using a kind of bit-hacking to
unwrap phase (the Höldrich method), which is supposed to perform a bit
faster than a conditional, and it's inside not just [phasor~] but all the
oscillator objects. If I remember correctly it can be prone to phase drift
over time, but don't quote me on that.

On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 11:24 AM, Alexandre Torres Porres 
wrote:

> I still believe differences between Pd and SC depend on other technical
> details than the ones presented, because similar objects like triangle~ and
> VarSaw will just sound quite differently, hence it may rely on subtleties
> inside the objects themselves. And I'm not talking about the "cultural" use
> which is something I believe makes quite a difference even in the Pd x Max
> world (when they both sound quite similar).
>
> cheers
>
> 2016-02-15 13:54 GMT-02:00 Andy Farnell :
>
>>
>> Good list of technical peculiarities Claude. For me, the "sound" is those
>> quirks combined with how Chris describes a "cultural" or "contextual" use.
>> I used to be great at knowing the sound of software or hardware sources
>> and could spot Reaktor, or a Roland analogue in moments. But emulations
>> got better and my ears got older, and maybe I began to care less about
>> implementation and more about artistic intent. As Chris says,
>> different tools tend to make you think and work in certain patterns,
>> and I think it is this more than anything that constitutes a "sound".
>>
>> cheers
>> Andy
>>
>>
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Re: [PD] Does Pd have a "sound"?

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

well, while we're at it, here's the patches for you to check and speculate
:)


SuperCollider Code;
VarSaw.ar(LFPulse.kr(1, 0, 0.3, 50, 50), 0, LFTri.ar(1, 0, 0.5, 0.5))!2.play

2016-02-16 2:45 GMT-02:00 Matt Barber :

> If there is difference between the sound of [triangle~] and VarSaw, it
> might actually be in the way phase is generated. The algorithms themselves
> are pretty much the same, but while VarSaw makes its own single-precision
> phase by simply subtracting 1 when an increment takes it past 1.0 (using a
> conditional on each sample), [triangle~] is a waveshaper that is fed phase.
> Pd's phasor is a little idiosyncratic, using a kind of bit-hacking to
> unwrap phase (the Höldrich method), which is supposed to perform a bit
> faster than a conditional, and it's inside not just [phasor~] but all the
> oscillator objects. If I remember correctly it can be prone to phase drift
> over time, but don't quote me on that.
>
> On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 11:24 AM, Alexandre Torres Porres <
> por...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I still believe differences between Pd and SC depend on other technical
>> details than the ones presented, because similar objects like triangle~ and
>> VarSaw will just sound quite differently, hence it may rely on subtleties
>> inside the objects themselves. And I'm not talking about the "cultural" use
>> which is something I believe makes quite a difference even in the Pd x Max
>> world (when they both sound quite similar).
>>
>> cheers
>>
>> 2016-02-15 13:54 GMT-02:00 Andy Farnell :
>>
>>>
>>> Good list of technical peculiarities Claude. For me, the "sound" is those
>>> quirks combined with how Chris describes a "cultural" or "contextual"
>>> use.
>>> I used to be great at knowing the sound of software or hardware sources
>>> and could spot Reaktor, or a Roland analogue in moments. But emulations
>>> got better and my ears got older, and maybe I began to care less about
>>> implementation and more about artistic intent. As Chris says,
>>> different tools tend to make you think and work in certain patterns,
>>> and I think it is this more than anything that constitutes a "sound".
>>>
>>> cheers
>>> Andy
>>>
>>>
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>


trials.pd
Description: Binary data
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Re: [PD] Does Pd have a "sound"?

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

correct code

{VarSaw.ar(LFPulse.kr(1, 0, 0.3, 50, 50), 0, LFTri.ar(1, 0, 0.5,
0.5))!2}.play

2016-02-16 2:54 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres :

> well, while we're at it, here's the patches for you to check and speculate
> :)
>
>
> SuperCollider Code;
> VarSaw.ar(LFPulse.kr(1, 0, 0.3, 50, 50), 0, LFTri.ar(1, 0, 0.5,
> 0.5))!2.play
>
> 2016-02-16 2:45 GMT-02:00 Matt Barber :
>
>> If there is difference between the sound of [triangle~] and VarSaw, it
>> might actually be in the way phase is generated. The algorithms themselves
>> are pretty much the same, but while VarSaw makes its own single-precision
>> phase by simply subtracting 1 when an increment takes it past 1.0 (using a
>> conditional on each sample), [triangle~] is a waveshaper that is fed phase.
>> Pd's phasor is a little idiosyncratic, using a kind of bit-hacking to
>> unwrap phase (the Höldrich method), which is supposed to perform a bit
>> faster than a conditional, and it's inside not just [phasor~] but all the
>> oscillator objects. If I remember correctly it can be prone to phase drift
>> over time, but don't quote me on that.
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 11:24 AM, Alexandre Torres Porres <
>> por...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I still believe differences between Pd and SC depend on other technical
>>> details than the ones presented, because similar objects like triangle~ and
>>> VarSaw will just sound quite differently, hence it may rely on subtleties
>>> inside the objects themselves. And I'm not talking about the "cultural" use
>>> which is something I believe makes quite a difference even in the Pd x Max
>>> world (when they both sound quite similar).
>>>
>>> cheers
>>>
>>> 2016-02-15 13:54 GMT-02:00 Andy Farnell :
>>>

 Good list of technical peculiarities Claude. For me, the "sound" is
 those
 quirks combined with how Chris describes a "cultural" or "contextual"
 use.
 I used to be great at knowing the sound of software or hardware sources
 and could spot Reaktor, or a Roland analogue in moments. But emulations
 got better and my ears got older, and maybe I began to care less about
 implementation and more about artistic intent. As Chris says,
 different tools tend to make you think and work in certain patterns,
 and I think it is this more than anything that constitutes a "sound".

 cheers
 Andy


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>>>
>>>
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>>
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